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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
 
| i have had a horse that has an lamness that shows up but doesnot get better with injections, carried to another vet and he thought he may a mild case of epm. We watched horse move he looks wonderful moving forward. But will flex mildly to some points and he picked one of his legs up and his comment is that he has a lot of flexability for an eleven your old horse, i told him he was very athletic horse, he just not up to par and balking at the gate. But he is 4-d horse not 1-d, the other vet i was using said on her last notes, that this horse has chronic joint problems and has limited runs left, and to use this med and this other med. We only did xrays of hocks upper hocks where clean, lower we fused. She wanted to do prp on stifles, i told her to inject if he got better i would do that in ther spring. She injected the si and stifles and imwent to a barrel race and gave a full dose of what she told me. Ya know what he did not run any better than a month ago. so, i knew that something was wrong that she was missing weather it was refered. The vet said he had a mild case. But he is running with his back feet together, almost like they are tied together, when my farrier shod him 2 weeks ago one foot on the back was fine the other when he put on the stand he said he could not hold it his foot would just roll forward on the stand,,he said it was real wierd.
Edited by daisycake123 2014-09-15 7:37 PM
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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
  
Location: North MS | Everything you say indicates EPM to me as well. Check out Pathogenes.com and have your vet (whichever one you trust the most at this time) to take a blood sample and send it in for a test. Test is $45 plus whatever the cost your vet charges to draw blood and if you haul to them or have them come out. Get some peace of mind on the subject and wait to see what the test says. I'm having one done tomorrow even. I've already had the expensive UC Davis test done by another vet. I'm wanting to try the Orogin (Oroquin 10) treatment first and decided to use a local vet. I think I caught mine fairly early as well. My first suggestion is that you quit running this horse until you get the results back. A fall could be devastating. Sadly that is what happened to my horse and he now has to deal with a bad shoulder injury. EPM is odd and shows up oddly. My horse only stumbled but we were doing a lot of work on his hooves and getting them in better shape so everyone wrote it off as adjusting to the trimming or soreness. I know a lot more now. Pay attention if he won't pick up a lead. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| We sent the test off yesturday. He moves beatiful. He gets his leads, but cant get his ass in the ground and is bunny hopping in the back arounds barrels and my farrier shod him a couple of weeks ago and said he could not put weight on one leg. This started last year, with some soundness issues no one could put there fingers on. An i have injected and injected and gave prevaicox. And no less that 6 vets have looked at this horse. The last vet told me that this horse had severe joint disease find him another job, but all we did was fuse his hocks and do,some injection. She kept telling me that he had issues, before imfused his hock, i spent money to ultrasound suspensories. Last year when no one could find anything imhad him tested for pssm. He used to be cold back after the ulcer treatment he is a quiet horse. But we are waiting on results, he said it was mild, but it has been chronic. He did tell me he did not know how much better he would get, he did say however thst his case is mild enough that i would be able to ride him, once treatment is started. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| What does the treatment cost. |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | Depends on what treatment you use- can be as low as $350 and as high as $1200.
I see that you keep saying mild but the symptoms you describe and the length of time you have had hind end issues- doesnt seem mild to me as far as being able to be a performance horse. JMO. I hope you get a good outcome- as they vary greatly.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
Location: TX | I'm treating my horse for EPM at the moment. It is Diclazuril / Levamisole / Vitamin E, it is an oral suspension. 30 day treatment. It cost me right under $400. I could notice a difference in my mare after 2 weeks on this stuff. Definitely recommend it! |
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| injecting a horse with EPM exacerbates the condition, so if the horse is worse after injecting, there is a a definitely a possibility that the horse has EPM. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13018
Location: Texas | either that or the pain is above the stifle, such as SI, sacrum, or somewhere in the pelvis.
It's very hard to distinguish something neurological from something musculoskeletal. I would definitely do the blood test and you can also do a CSF tap but the test can get messed up even with small amounts of contamination. There is no perfect way to diagnose EPM. Blood tests test for exposure and then the results are up to the interpretation of the vet whether they believe the infection is active or if the animal has just been exposed. some like to compare to a CSF sample to compare the amount of antibodies in the CSF fluid compared to whats in circulation. However, the antibodies can pass the blood brain barrier and systemic antibodies can get into the CSF… Like I said, there is no clear cut antemortem, YES NO diagnosis for EPM just with blood or CSF. The only way to 100% confirm EPM is with a post mortem necropsy. Makes being a vet kind of tricky. One train of thought is to do periodic blood tests several weeks apart to see if the titer value is rising, dropping, or staying the same.
Have they done a neurologic exam on the horse yet? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| I have gone through 5 years of trying to find out what was wrong with my mare. Five years ago, one day she was fine and 2 days later was bunny hopping when asked to lope. I have taken her everywhere, had her injected, blistered, e-rayed, scanned, ultra sounded, so many blood tests I am surprised she had any left. Finally 3 months ago had her treated for EPM although she was always negative. Within 2 weeks she was almost totally sound. 2 weeks after that I got her up, saddled her and literally rode off on her. I entered her in her first barrel race this last Saturday. She didn't get a check but ran a 2D time and performed amazingly. I waited Five Long Years !!!! |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | Fastpossumblond - 2014-09-16 4:35 PM I have gone through 5 years of trying to find out what was wrong with my mare. Five years ago, one day she was fine and 2 days later was bunny hopping when asked to lope. I have taken her everywhere, had her injected, blistered, e-rayed, scanned, ultra sounded, so many blood tests I am surprised she had any left. Finally 3 months ago had her treated for EPM although she was always negative. Within 2 weeks she was almost totally sound. 2 weeks after that I got her up, saddled her and literally rode off on her. I entered her in her first barrel race this last Saturday. She didn't get a check but ran a 2D time and performed amazingly. I waited Five Long Years !!!!
Wow! What an amazing story!!!
My mare showed no neuro signs, but I insisted on the test. She had an extremely high count!! |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| The worst thing he has seen no less than 5 vets and 2 different lamness vets. And 3 local vets. I showed then numbers of videos. Mi really like thismvet as this was the firse nero exam he had, my farrier told me when he shod him last time he wasnot confortable on one leg and we did a trailer to support him. But he is running slower and slower. I will treat him for it requardless what the test say. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Something has caused me not to,give up on this horse as i bought a little,4yo cause i dont like trying to run a horse like this the last vet wrote on my notes, that this horse has multipal joint issues and did not name one that she could or had xrayed and tell damage, then went on to say he only has limited amount of runs left, that you can say about every horse. once i get him well will send her a video and then call her. She made her last bill high enough that i would not come back, worst thing my horse did nothing to,deserve this treatment. Stood there and was compliant. But i cant sell a three legged horse. So, i have to stick this out vet told me as mild as he was that 2weeks after i start treat i could put him in work, and show. Something tells me he will get better how much i dont know. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Also, what treatments have yall used.
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Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | I just got a copy of my test back today. SAG 1- 32, SAG 5-2, SAG 6- 2. They suggested I use 10 days of the Origin treatment so that is what I will be doing. I have him on Health-E vitamin E supplement, FORCO, and Next Level Performance Joint supplement which contains Microlactin a specific type of milk protein that reduces a certain type of white blood cell inflammation. Also my vet has him on Previcox for his current shoulder injury.
I've never done this before so this is just all I know for now. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Bump. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| The vet suggested some like protozal, but been hearing about Oroquin that is a 10 day treatment, i know that is a trial drug vs a fda approved drug. But the oroquin is supposed to,be up and coming. Let me know what yall know.
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | My vet is everyone's go to guy for EPM treatments and he's recommended Orogin to me. He says it's working better than anything he's ever seen. Since it's not approved blood has to be sent to a lab in Florida for approval for treatment. I have two that I will be having tested soon. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Test came back negative, vet was not in to interpret. But all it had on it is neg/ neg. Dont know where it go from here. Any one else have this problem. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11208
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Another one that I would do a pelvic exam. Mine we are guessing was roughly 1yr+ healed by the time I had someone do a pelvic exam. I think from when it may have happened to when I was back riding him was 6 months-8 months. He was in pasture and I was pregnant. He always picked up his lead fine, did the bunny hop thing and was so so sore after a barrel race, but with a massage/chiro, he would feel like a normal horse after 3 days. I had his hocks and over the SI area injected once and he lasted 3 months of barrel tuning and about 6 barrel runs. Gave him the winter off again and the next summer he was the same, barrel race= sore. He had healed assymetrically. He is riding sound, but will never be a barrel horse again.
I highly recommend a pelvis check anytime a horse is just acting off and stifle/hocks don't seem to be the issue. The first was just a rectal exam, and my show horse we did rectal and ultrasound, but his pelvis turned out to be normal. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11208
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I forgot to also mention he was stiff for the farrier on his right hind, but otherwise was as happy as could be riding around, long trotting etc. He never gave me issues on either lead, but the tighter the circle, the next day just brushing him over his loins/SI area, he would be flinchy sore.
It is a cheap thing for the vet to check out. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I just got him injected and no better, the farrier just did him said he cant put all his weight on right hind leg and that is one he is nero on. He trots forward fine, i think that is what is throwing people off. But he does where his back toes off some. Also, he did not uncross his from feet very quickly. All the stuff i read it seems like on epm that is effects the right hind foot. Imhave done nothing but read stuff on epm... I also read that the test are unreliable. Both ways.
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11208
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | daisycake123 - 2014-09-21 1:34 PM I just got him injected and no better, the farrier just did him said he cant put all his weight on right hind leg and that is one he is nero on. He trots forward fine, i think that is what is throwing people off. But he does where his back toes off some. Also, he did not uncross his from feet very quickly. All the stuff i read it seems like on epm that is effects the right hind foot. Imhave done nothing but read stuff on epm... I also read that the test are unreliable. Both ways.
If I were you, I would just treat for EPM. That was my plan with my show horse. Some on here have followed his issues. The most noticable was he was dragging hind legs and seemed lethargic in his hind end. I had a vet totally check him out and all we found was a stretched ligament (I think suspensory) in his left front that made him off in his right hind. The over compensating thing made him practically fall apart.
I did the EPM blood test and it came back that he had so very few signs of it and had so much improvement from the corral rest and Magnathing on his leg that I opted not to treat. Mine also seemed slow about uncrossing his hind feet and I could tug him around by his tail showing hind end weekness. This all improved as his front foot got better. He could back up a hill and retain his balance doing things with his head up, he could also walk down a slope or along one and not be off balance. Bottom line is, for my horse, he didn't seem to show enough symptoms to treat. But I would have in a minute and still will regardless of what the tests say if he had symptoms continue. The vets say there really aren't any one set of symptoms. It can vary from each horse. Good luck I hope you get it figured out. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Got a copy of but not talked to vet yet. After i talk to vet i will call a couple of other places, vets. I still believe he has it. When he went to step on my trailer at the vets his right rear gave out and he almost fell on me he did everything he could not to hurt me, he just had no control, he also had a hard time backing off and stepping down. I have had this horse for 9 years. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41127
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Bumping up!! |
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epm