Barrel Racing at Barrel Horse World.com - Horses, friendy active forums, articles, more.

horseteeth23 - 2009-03-23 2:12 AM

Hi there.  Why do you think I want or need to be called an "equine dentist"?  I'm assuming the term "equine dentist" was coined for no other reason than "equine teeth floater" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.  I don't care about that.....people can call me whatever they want.  And where in the world did you come up with the idea that I wouldn't do whatever it takes to get "registered" and to comply with certain rules and regulations?  Isn't that the point?  Instead of entrapping an equine dentist and using him as a test case for their new legislation, maybe the vet board should have first contacted all of the horse owner's and horse associations in Oklahoma to see how they would feel about that.   I can guarantee you there wouldn't have been an arrest if they had bothered to consider how horse owners feel about having their RIGHT OF CHOICE completely removed.

I am willing to work with whoever is deemed necessary in order to be able to work, however the purpose of any veterinary board is to regulate veterinarians and the practice of veterinary medicine.  Teeth floaters are not veterinarians and floating teeth should not be considered the practice of veterinary medicine. That's why we would like to see a change. I agree certain rules and regs need to be set, but if the vet board is going to regulate a non-veterinary modality then that will open up a whole new can of worms (rightfully so) for all of the other professionals who practice different animal-related trades.  But, if that's what it boils down to, then that's fine by me.  I agree that a compromise between the teeth floaters and the vet board needs to be made, however no one has contacted me or any of the other teeth floaters I know.  We speak every day, and between all 9 of us, nobody has heard anything from any member of the vet board.  I personally contacted the vet board regarding this issue last week and still have not heard back.              

FYI - The very day after publishing the website "Oklahoma Equine Dentistry Law" we were contacted by the director/president of the I.A.E.D. (Int'l Assoc of Equine Dentistry) who told us she rec'd a phone call that same morning from a member of the Oklahoma Vet Board who was probing her for information on the "practicing" equine dentists in Oklahoma. She declined to offer any information.  Only a few days later, Bobby Griswold was set up and arrested.  I'm not saying that I'm RIGHT about everything.....and I don't need to be, but in my opinion, it seemed from the very beginning we were up against a vet board who is predisposed to dislike non-DVM teeth floaters.  So in my opinion, and after talking it over with certain individuals, it seemed better to try to change the law through legislation followed by regulation.  It is unfortunate that it has gotten ugly and that peoples livelihoods are at stake,  but such would have been the case no matter how the issue was approached. There are two sides of the fence with every political issue.  

I will continue to maintain that teeth floating is not the same as veterinary dentistry and is not addressed in our practice act and never has been.  Here is a link to every single state's practice act.  I have already done all the research - you can click on this link and then select "all states practice acts".  http://www.oklahomaequinedentistrylaw.com/VPA.html

You mentioned Louisiana - In Louisiana "dentistry" is INCLUDED in the Practice of Veterinary Medicine and is not allowed by non-DVMs, however, floating teeth is permitted, along with other accepted livestock management practices.  The following state's also allow teeth floating, some exempt it and some have certain rules/regs:

ARIZONA        CALIFORNIA        CONNECTICUT          FLORIDA           ILLINOIS                     
MINNESOTA  OHIO                      NEW HAMPSHIRE     OREGON           VERMONT    
MARYLAND    VIRGINIA              PENNSYLVANIA        LOUISIANA       SOUTH CAROLINA

I'm not trying to argue with you, and I agree with most of what you've stated, other than the fact you think I'm not willing to do whatever it takes to make this right - because I am.  It is just very difficult when you feel like everything you've worked for is being sucked out from under you.  It seems as though nobody cares how much schooling a non-DVM floater has had....the mentality of the majority seems to be "if you didn't go to school for 8 years then you can't possibly learn how to float teeth".  It's crazy.  Please try to see if from my point of view as well.

I spoke to one of the equine vets I work for today and he and his wife both said you are a credible person - so I will listen to any advice you have......  and I hope this works out in everyone's favor.  It was never my intention to come across as "unwilling" and I'm sorry that you think I'm bashing the vet board.......but I have good reason to be upset with their recent behavior.  I will try to be a little "nicer sounding" in my posts.    Thank you.   
    

BR-DVM - 2009-03-22 10:57 PM Horseteeth just clarify something for me if floating is not dentistry then why call yourself an Equine Dentist and expect the respect that that infers? Just a question not meant to offend. The Equine Dentists that I have spoke with are just that dentists and they want to be called a dentist. They are willing to make changes to become registered and comply with rules and regulations by the vet boards. So if the very people whom as a vet I respect for doing an outstanding job are not against change which would allow for regulation why are you? As far as acts not prohibited just for time sake tonight I looked at the states surrounding Ok and only La allows for non-vets to do dental work legally. Now for many years Ok was like all of these other states and it was against the practice act but was a misdemeanor and therefore largely overlooked. I have said multiple times that making it a felony was probably not the best course of action. I too feel for the people affected by this as many have built a very good practice and reputation over the years. However, as another poster said that they ( the Equine Dentists ) should have know the consequences before hand. They did!!! Or should have as ignorance of the law is never a defense and it has been against the law since 1990. Many of these dentists have received letters explaining the legality of their jobs and how to legally work under the supervision of a licensed vet. Many have been fined and their attitude was pay the fine and go back to work - illegally. They viewed the fine as the cost of doing business. Because the vet board is complaint driven the ones that received the letters were ones that had complaints made against them. And just so there is no misunderstanding not all of the complaints were made by vets a good majority of the complaints came from horseman whose horses mouths were damaged by the dentists. Regulation would help to avoid the gross negligence that has become common place with some of these individuals. Which is exactly why the good Equine Dentists have not had a problem with a registration process. They believe like I do that it will weed out the bad dentists which makes the goods ones look bad. At least that has been the attitude I have come across while talking with these guys to come up with a solution that will benefit the horsemen, dentists, and the vets responsible for the care of these animals. All I am trying to say is that the only way this is going to get changed is to work with the Veterinary bored. In La there is a section for Equine Dentists. They must be registered with the Vet bored and pay fees and be accountable. Not to mention that they must contact the persons vet before practicing on that particular horse. Or obtain a referral from a La vet. It also does not allow for the dentists to administer medications. TX, MO, KS, and Ark while not felonies do prohibit the practice of Equine Dentistry which is Equine Teeth floating , the removal of caps, the removal of hooks and the removal of wolf teeth by anyone other than a licensed vet or a person working under the direct supervision of a licensed vet in that state. Now I have said before I feel that there needs to be change. But the way to get the change rolling is to work with the powers that be not against them. I am just trying to make sure that the public is accurately educated on this topic so that they can make an educated opinion. I feel change is inevitable the question is will that change be what you all want or not. I really fear that the change will not be pretty if you continue to bash the vets and the vet board. These are the very people whom you need on your side to get legislation passed which would allow for the registration of Equine Dentists. JMO I will continue to look at the practice acts but so far only La has a distinct registration process for Equine Dentists.

freetorun - 2009-03-20 8:40 AM


Some laws have to be broken to change the law!

What about Rosa Parks!

ozcancrasher13 - 2009-03-23 10:36 AM This is a little off subject, but kind of relates.

My vet and I were always in arguments about chiropractors.  I believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong, in KS you have to be a vet or a human chiropractor with a script from a vet to work without breaking the law.  I think at one point the human chiro had to have a vet present.  Not sure of that.  Anyway, I argued and argued with my vet that my chiro spent 8 years on just that area, that he did know more then the vet about it.  It was my horse and I should get to choose who worked on him.  Someone who had 8 years of training in manipulation or a vet who had the weekend seminar in it. 

My vet said any changes of any kind to an animal was considered veterinary medicine. 

So, the dentist issue falls in this.  

My vet even told me that trimming and shoeing horses actually falls in this too because you are making changes to the animal.  He told me only reason vets don't push this issue is that shoeing horses is too hard of work!

Okiebarrelmom - 2009-03-23 10:39 AM
That will be next on the agenda, if this doesn't get changed!

dhanover - 2009-03-23 11:05 AM


I agree w/ this....here in Texas there are some guys who call themselves "Podiatry Specialist" that are DVM's....I am not sure how I feel about them yet...so far it has not been pretty. 

ozcancrasher13 - 2009-03-23 10:36 AM

This is a little off subject, but kind of relates.

My vet and I were always in arguments about chiropractors.  I believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong, in KS you have to be a vet or a human chiropractor with a script from a vet to work without breaking the law.  I think at one point the human chiro had to have a vet present.  Not sure of that.  Anyway, I argued and argued with my vet that my chiro spent 8 years on just that area, that he did know more then the vet about it.  It was my horse and I should get to choose who worked on him.  Someone who had 8 years of training in manipulation or a vet who had the weekend seminar in it. 

My vet said any changes of any kind to an animal was considered veterinary medicine. 

So, the dentist issue falls in this.  

My vet even told me that trimming and shoeing horses actually falls in this too because you are making changes to the animal.  He told me only reason vets don't push this issue is that shoeing horses is too hard of work!

horseteeth23 - 2009-03-23 11:34 AM


Your vet is RIGHT - so taxidermists should not be allowed to work either.....and hunting, fishing and trapping should be banned, as well as clipping and grooming and pulling manes and doing teeth and trimming feet and horseshoeing and gathering eggs and cracking eggs and stepping on spiders and setting mouse traps and while we're at it how bout flea collars and pesticides.....   The laws have become absurd and have gotten out of control.  ESPECIALLY IN OKLAHOMA....the only place on the planet where floating teeth is considered a felony offense.  That's why we are working to do something about it.      

dhanover - 2009-03-23 9:11 AM
 

CarpeDiem - 2009-03-23 11:44 AM

This is awfull, my horses have received better treatment with positive results from equine dentist, chiropracters, and massage theapist than any and all of the vets I have used over the years.  First off the vets have a "god" complex and would never admit that anyone could know more about an area other than themselves, or especially the vets in my area, we have finally found a vet who does believe in using outside help, however he is 2 1/2 hours away.  Until the "denstist" Chiro and massage group unite and hire a lobbist the vet association will continue to steam roll them out of buisness, because sad as it may be, it is all about the all mighty dollar, these others have taken away from the vets, They can call themselves Curley, Larry and Moe for all I care, I will continue to use them for my horses because they make a difference in their overall quality of performance and most importantly their quality of life!  I have never had a negative experience with any of the dentist, chiro & massage professionals, unlike the ones with our last vet!!