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Sticky Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 11:55 AM (#5879135 - in reply to #5878535)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
DG19 - 2011-09-07 6:08 AM

First a big THANK YOU


The tools you put in place have helped me and Ginger tremendously!!! A ton more confidence.

My question

What exercises do you like while riding outside? especially for young horses.

Thanks again
Darlene

Hey Girl !!

Glad to hear Ginger is better!
For riding a horse outside, especially a young horse, I want to give them something to do. If you don't have access to cattle, I would ride thru trees bending around them, doing spirals, switching directions, moving out and back from them laterally. You can do the same thing with bushes, or rocks, use just about anything for a target.
We have quite a few rocks around her, so I love to have my horse pick his way thru the rocks. If you have down logs, you can ride over them, side pass over them, etc.
I just try to incorporate my bending and softening into the surroundings.
Keep in mind, the straighter line you're going in, the faster your horse will want to go.
The name of the game is give her a job, keep her feet busy, moving backward, forward, left and right. The more you do that, the less time she has to go back to using the right side (reactive) of her brain.
**One of the most common mistakes people make in the arena, or outside, is looking for things that the horse might spook at. This is totally opposite of what you should do. Ride with confidence, ignore potential problem areas and keep your horse on his job. The more things you give him to do, the less he will be concerned with the spooky stuff.
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 11:56 AM (#5879136 - in reply to #5878582)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
Wishful - 2011-09-07 7:56 AM

Hi, Do you have any exercises for horse that loses his rearend on the backside of the 2nd barrel as you are coming out of the turn? He goes into it great..but kinda stutters/hesitates and doesnt come back to you when you pick up on him....

1. I need to make sure that your approach into the barrel is correct. Are you giving a proper pocket going into the barrel ?
2. Is your horse dropping his shoulder going into the turn?

1 and 2 are the main reasons horses get out of position on the back side of the turn, it's improper position going into the turn.

If he's dropping his shoulder/cutting off his pocket, please refer to the counter arc exercise I gave Rachellyn80.

If you feel like your approach and horse's body position is correct, please refer to the Big and Small circles exercise I gave to Happymom.
Done correctly, the big and small circles help a horse position his body correctly to leave the turn. When you go from turning the barrel right back into another circle, and don't let him drift out, he has to get his body into the right position.

Another exercise you can do is, say for instance at the second barrel:
Do a regular to slightly larger turn around the barrel, finish the turn, but instead of going onto the third barrel, go STRAIGHT above the 2nd barrel about 15 -20 feet and lope a couple circles. That means you would be loping the extra circles about 20' to the right of the 2nd barrel (assuming you go to the right barrel for your first turn). If you're working on the third barrel, the place your would do the extra circles is 20 feet to the right of the third barrel. On the first barrel (right) you would do extra circles 20' above the first barrel, so that you make your turn and head more towards the third barrel than towards the 2nd like you would in a normal pattern. This exercise exaggerates finishing the turn. It's also good for a horse that wants to rush out of the turn before he finishes turning the barrel. You can do the exercise at a trot until you get your timing down, then lope. Fast lope, if needed, to reinforce the move.
**Also good for a rider that tends to not finish the turn before leaving.

Lastly, if he absolutely won't finish correctly after consistent slow work, ck for soreness.
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 11:56 AM (#5879137 - in reply to #5878713)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
countrygirl2006 - 2011-09-07 9:01 AM

Thanks for joining us, Lianna.

What basics do you like having on a young horse before starting them on the pattern?  

How do you gauge when a younger horse is ready to be pushed harder on the pattern?

Do you have a certain way you introduce them to more speed on the pattern?



Thanks again!

I want all the basics on a horse before I go to the pattern. That includes:
Lateral flexion
shoulder control, ex. counter arcs and two tracking
side passing
backing
stopping
softness in the bridle
maintain proper body position is varying sizes of circles
total control, from head to tail
The horse should be light and responsive for all of this.
Usually it takes about 90 days to put the basics on one, sometimes less, depending on the individual.
When my horse has the proper basics, usually the first time he goes thru the pattern, he can lope thru correctly.

As far as when to increase speed:
The horse is only worked at the speed that he can be correct at. That means his nose is slightly tipped to the inside of turn, he maintaining a symmetrical circle around the barrel with his hip in. Most horses will increase speed on their own as they understand and gain the strength to work correctly. I can't stress enough to be CORRECT every time you work on the pattern.
*I also want to give the horse the chance to maintain correct position on his own. That means when he's correct, I'll give him some rein back and let him learn to hold correct position on his own. I'm not there to "carry" him around the barrel every time, just to correct him if he strays from correctness.
**I might add that as far as speed, there are vary degrees in each gait: Trot, fast trot, lope, faster lope, etc., not just trot, lope, run.
As far as "pushing harder", please refer to my response to Ridejg.
I don't necessarily believe in pushing harder, rather, asking for a tiny bit of improvement each days. Horses, like people, vary in what they can give you, some are ambitious and really try. Some are not so ambitious, you don't get as much effort/progress, but they still make improvements. Different bloodlines handle different amounts of pressure better. The main thing is don't work your horse til he quits trying. Quit asking while he's doing things right. It maybe the first time you go thru, but reward him by backing off.
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 11:58 AM (#5879138 - in reply to #5879050)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
BACK TO THE BASICS - 2011-09-07 11:27 AM

Hi Liana,

With winter around the corner....how do you keep your young ones going thru the winter? Especially the ones that need to be consistanly rode / ones that really need miles put on. Kinda hard to do much on one...between the weather, mud, and frozen ground....especially if you have one that you would like to lunge a little bit before getting on. Any tips or exercises when you don't have access to an indoor for the winter?



I am blessed to have a covered roundpen and an Equiciser with good ground and good drainage. There have been times, like this past winter, where I was limited to just a small space in the roundpen where the snow hadn't blown in !!

The most important thing I can tell you is make sure you ride "effectively vs. ineffectively". That means make every minute count that you're on your horse. Keep him soft, supple and responsive. Do lots of bending and softening. A lot of lateral movements are quite strenuous for a horse, so that definitely helps on the fitness side.
I don't believe in actual "lunging", but I do certainly believe in working a horse around me on a 12-14ft rope with a rope halter. I don't want to lunge him in mindless/endless circles. Not only is it boring, usually it makes him tougher.
When I work a horse on the ground I use the same principal as if I were on him. I want him to give his nose, ribs and hind and, paying attention to me and being soft. Just disengaging a horse's hind end is good exercise for him on it's own. As far as circling around you, I don't do more than 3 circles before I ask the horse to roll back to the inside and reverse directions. If he's acting fresh, I will do fewer circles before I switch directions and ask him to do more things (keep him busier) until I see him start to pay attention.
I know not everyone on here is a Parelli fan but just using his seven games to get your horse more responsive is very helpful.
Ground work, done correctly, is a tremendous tool. It's also great exercise for the rider as well !!

All I can say is, utilize the time and space you have. Keep it interesting for you and your horse. It's not so much the amount of time and mileage, but what you do with it.
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 11:58 AM (#5879141 - in reply to #5871730)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
A friend of mine told me you have a good thrush treatment, can you give it to me ?

The only way to truly get rid of thrush is for the foot to outgrow it. That means that you've got to make sure the grooves on the side of the frog and especially at the top of the frog don't overlap the sole.
Soak the foot once per day in a Tea Tree Oil wash. Here's the one I use:
healing-tree.com Tea-Clenz Wash
Scrub off the debris and gooey stuff with a brush.
Dry the foot off and apply a mix of 50/50 triple antibiotic ointment and athletes foot cream. You can mix it and put it in a syringe, then just squirt it in. For severe cases, use the above treatment everyday for one wk, then go to every other day.
After the foot starts to heal where you don't see a lot of the black, gooey stuff, just clean the foot and squirt the antibiotic in every other day.
Proper foot trimming/shoeing is critical.
I have seen a lot of horses that have chronic thrush that have other foot issues going on. Usually they have "stacked" (high/tall) heels and heel pain that cause them not to stride right on their feet, thus creating a great environment for thrush.

Edited by Liana D 2011-09-07 12:13 PM
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 12:19 PM (#5879188 - in reply to #5871730)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
How wide of a pocket and how much do you rate your horse?

That depends on several factors:

Pocket and rate depend on how big the horse is, how responsive, how long/short strided, what's his confidence level, what's the ground like? is it slick, which would require a little extra rate. Is it deep? which means I run him up closer.
there are many factors you need to address before you come up with a formula and it will change from pattern to pattern.
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rachellyn80
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2011-09-07 12:34 PM (#5879231 - in reply to #5879099)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon



Jr. Detective


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Location: Beggs, OK
Liana D - 2011-09-07 11:48 AM
rachellyn80 - 2011-09-02 10:52 AM Fantastic! 





Lianna-

I would love to know what some of your favorite maneuvers and tune-up exercises are for a horse that is super turny and has a tendency to crash on his front end.



Greg has been helping me so much, but everyone has their go to daily exercises for horses with these kinds of issues.
This is where the counter arc comes in very handy. I will describe the mechanics of the Counter Arc, even though you probably already know them. We will use a counter arc to the left as an example: Walk in a circle to the left, tip your horses nose to the right, bend his ribs inward creating his body arc to the right, but remember , you are walking to the left. A lot of people think a counter arc is moving in a circle with your horse's nose tipped to the outside, but that's not correct. A horse should move laterally, away from your leg and rein, while maintaining forward motion in the circle. The more advanced you and your horse are, the smaller the diameter of the counter arc. If your horse is totally new to this he will need to know how to travel down the fence with his nose tipped to the inside without drifting/pulling inward. To keep him from drifting, put your leg against the inside cinch area to block him from coming in. ***The horse knowing how to side pass well will make this exercise easier. Try for a few correct steps and build on that until he does it easily. When he side pass and do the fence exercise, you're ready to try a counter arc. When starting to counter arc a horse that hasn't done it, do only a few correct steps where you feel him arced to the outside of the circle and moving off of your leg and build on that. Don't try to do a complete circle the first time. Trotting is usually a good speed to start at, that way you have good forward motion. Eventually, your horse should be able to do a small counter arc correctly at a lope or even a fast lope. Anyway, back to the tune up. When you get to the point at the barrel where your horse drops, pick his inside shoulder up and counter arc him around in a full circle, ending up at the point you started, then continue the turn. So if your horse tries to drop in right at the rate point going into the turn, that's where you'd pick him up and do the counter arc. You can try it at a slow lope or trot. When you get more confident and you've got an older horse more set in his ways, you can do it at a faster pace, even a run. Done correctly, it will get him a lot more responsive to your rein. Currently, he is pushing against your rein and leg. The exercise gets him to "honor" your rein and leg so that when you lift up he moves over instead of pushing. This exercise is also good for a horse that wants to not be round on the back side of the barrel. Just pick him up and counter arc him at the point he is stiffening and dropping. The exercise for Happymom is also a good one for the problem your addressing. **Please tell Gregg congrats on the Puncher Class win at the OKC Ranch Horse Competition !! I was supposed to judge it, but had to be at Fulton's sale....RATS !!!

Thank You so much!

I send Greg your congratulations

He was telling me almost exactly what you just said last night when I was working Denali   I won't tell him that part though! 
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 12:39 PM (#5879241 - in reply to #5871730)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
rachellyn80

YOUR WELCOME !!
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countrygirl2006
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2011-09-07 12:48 PM (#5879264 - in reply to #5879137)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Red Hot Cardinal Fan


Posts: 4122
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Liana D - 2011-09-07 11:56 AM
countrygirl2006 - 2011-09-07 9:01 AM Thanks for joining us, Lianna.



What basics do you like having on a young horse before starting them on the pattern?  



How do you gauge when a younger horse is ready to be pushed harder on the pattern?



Do you have a certain way you introduce them to more speed on the pattern?







Thanks again!
I want all the basics on a horse before I go to the pattern. That includes: Lateral flexion shoulder control, ex. counter arcs and two tracking side passing backing stopping softness in the bridle maintain proper body position is varying sizes of circles total control, from head to tail The horse should be light and responsive for all of this. Usually it takes about 90 days to put the basics on one, sometimes less, depending on the individual. When my horse has the proper basics, usually the first time he goes thru the pattern, he can lope thru correctly. As far as when to increase speed: The horse is only worked at the speed that he can be correct at. That means his nose is slightly tipped to the inside of turn, he maintaining a symmetrical circle around the barrel with his hip in. Most horses will increase speed on their own as they understand and gain the strength to work correctly. I can't stress enough to be CORRECT every time you work on the pattern. *I also want to give the horse the chance to maintain correct position on his own. That means when he's correct, I'll give him some rein back and let him learn to hold correct position on his own. I'm not there to "carry" him around the barrel every time, just to correct him if he strays from correctness. **I might add that as far as speed, there are vary degrees in each gait: Trot, fast trot, lope, faster lope, etc., not just trot, lope, run. As far as "pushing harder", please refer to my response to Ridejg. I don't necessarily believe in pushing harder, rather, asking for a tiny bit of improvement each days. Horses, like people, vary in what they can give you, some are ambitious and really try. Some are not so ambitious, you don't get as much effort/progress, but they still make improvements. Different bloodlines handle different amounts of pressure better. The main thing is don't work your horse til he quits trying. Quit asking while he's doing things right. It maybe the first time you go thru, but reward him by backing off.

Thanks for the response! That definitely makes sense.
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 12:52 PM (#5879269 - in reply to #5871730)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
you're very welcome !
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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2011-09-07 12:56 PM (#5879280 - in reply to #5871730)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon



Saint Stacey


5000500050005000500050005000500100
Are you up for a video critique or do you not have time?  Thanks! 
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 12:57 PM (#5879283 - in reply to #5879280)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
SKM - 2011-09-07 12:56 PM

Are you up for a video critique or do you not have time?  Thanks! 

Sure !! Bring it !!
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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2011-09-07 12:59 PM (#5879292 - in reply to #5871730)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon



Saint Stacey


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She is 4 and has maybe 20 runs on her.  We have her entered in OK City in Dec. and need to smooth things out.
Anything you see and can comment on would be appreciated! Thank you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mXIMfF3-18

 
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 1:09 PM (#5879317 - in reply to #5879292)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
SKM - 2011-09-07 12:59 PM

She is 4 and has maybe 20 runs on her.  We have her entered in OK City in Dec. and need to smooth things out.
Anything you see and can comment on would be appreciated! Thank you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mXIMfF3-18

 

She looks nice !

I would worry about smoothness and correctness instead of speed. I think your rider is worrying a little too much about speed.
I would do lots of slow work, working on correctness of the turns, smoothing them out, getting the mare to relax.

I see her lifting her head fighting the bit some. I would work on some big/fast, small/slow cirlces, keeping her soft, letting her know she doesn't have to stiffen up whenever speed is added. It is totally true that the faster you go the more you tend to lose softness, so that is something I constantly work on.
You can also do my circle exercise (see earlier posts) with a fast lope in the big circle and a slow lope in the small cirlce. That technique will teach a horse to maintain proper body position in the turn, while teaching them rate and keeping them smooth all at the same time.
I also see the mare chopping off her pocket, even to the first barrel. This puts her in a bind at the back side, especially at the second barrel, you see her bunch up and have to re-group. I would be working her in symmetrical cirlces around the barrel, maybe even do some counter bends, or at least move her laterally away right at the point where she is stepping in. She has so much try, she's making it tough on herself.

I'll say it again, to your talented little rider "SMOOTH AND CORRECT" !!

you definitely have a nice horse !!

Edited by Liana D 2011-09-07 1:14 PM
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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2011-09-07 1:12 PM (#5879321 - in reply to #5871730)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon



Saint Stacey


5000500050005000500050005000500100
Thank you so much!  I will have my daughter read this.  I appreciate your help and what you said makes a lot of sense.   

The filly doesn't like much on her head.  What she is in now is a little sidepull/hackmore with short shanks. She has been tough to figure out when it comes to head gear.


Edited by SKM 2011-09-07 1:14 PM
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On the Money Girl
Reg. Aug 2006
Posted 2011-09-07 1:12 PM (#5879322 - in reply to #5871730)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon



What About Beer?


Posts: 2411
2000100100100100
Location: So. Cali
Hi


I am trying to train my younger horse to soften up... What bit do you use to do this? Do you use draw reins as well?  
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 1:17 PM (#5879333 - in reply to #5879322)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
On the Money Girl - 2011-09-07 1:12 PM

Hi


I am trying to train my younger horse to soften up... What bit do you use to do this? Do you use draw reins as well?  

I use o ring snaffles (mainly Don Dodge fixed rings) most of the time, all of the time when teaching softening concepts.
I very rarely use draw reins. Horses are taught to soften off of my hands both vertically and laterally. It is a slow process.
You have to be very consistent in what you are asking for. There are some very good videos out that you can rent from Giddyupflix if you're not sure about how to go about it.
The main thing is consistency, patience, and repetition.
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On the Money Girl
Reg. Aug 2006
Posted 2011-09-07 1:19 PM (#5879338 - in reply to #5879333)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon



What About Beer?


Posts: 2411
2000100100100100
Location: So. Cali
Liana D - 2011-09-07 11:17 AM
On the Money Girl - 2011-09-07 1:12 PM Hi





I am trying to train my younger horse to soften up... What bit do you use to do this? Do you use draw reins as well?  
I use o ring snaffles (mainly Don Dodge fixed rings) most of the time, all of the time when teaching softening concepts. I very rarely use draw reins. Horses are taught to soften off of my hands both vertically and laterally. It is a slow process. You have to be very consistent in what you are asking for. There are some very good videos out that you can rent from Giddyupflix if you're not sure about how to go about it. The main thing is consistency, patience, and repetition.

Thanks!  
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 1:20 PM (#5879344 - in reply to #5879321)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
SKM - 2011-09-07 1:12 PM

Thank you so much!  I will have my daughter read this.  I appreciate your help and what you said makes a lot of sense.   

The filly doesn't like much on her head.  What she is in now is a little sidepull/hackmore with short shanks. She has been tough to figure out when it comes to head gear.

Yes, I was guessing she was probably sensitive in the mouth. I think having a lot of forward motion is adding to the problem too.
All I can suggest is lots of quiet time, getting her to relax and give to the bit, especially laterally. I would really work on bending her and softening right before I went in the arena. Try to make it a cue for her to relax. The more you convince her to relax in her neck and jaw, the softer she'll be.

Edited by Liana D 2011-09-07 1:22 PM
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2011-09-07 1:23 PM (#5879348 - in reply to #5871730)
Subject: RE: Back by popular demand Lianna Deweese Sept 7 Noon


Defense Attorney for The Horse


50010010025
Location: Claremore, OK
THANKS SO MUCH TO EVERYONE !!!

I've got to get back to work !!!

Have a great week and ride smooth !!
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