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Rancher VS. Government
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Whiteboy
Posted 2014-04-08 12:17 PM (#6972791)
Subject: Rancher VS. Government


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 There are a ton of issues at hand here, but I would be interested to know the opinions of the BHW community.
CLARK COUNTY, Nevada — A man has been released after being arrested Sunday during an ongoing dispute over grazing rights between the Bureau of Land Management and a family in southern Nevada, and the family is calling for action.
A federal judge in Las Vegas first ordered Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy to remove his trespassing cattle in 1998, according to reports from the Associated Press. Similar orders were issued in July 2013, and again in October.
Saturday, the BLM began taking some of the 908 cattle from Bundy. The BLM says Bundy's cattle have been trespassing on U.S. land without required grazing permits for over 25 years. However, Bundy said he doesn't recognize federal authority on land that he says belongs to the state of Nevada.
The BLM released a statement on its website saying, "Cattle have been in trespass on public lands in Southern Nevada for more than two decades. This is unfair to the thousands of other ranchers who graze livestock in compliance with federal laws and regulations throughout the west. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and the National Park Service (NPS) have made repeated attempts to resolve this matter administratively and judicially."
The situation escalated Saturday after Cliven Bundy's son, Dave Bundy, 37, was arrested. Members of the Bundy family had gathered to film and take pictures of the removal of their cattle in an effort to document the event, according to Cliven Bundy's daughter, Bailey Bundy Logue.
The family members had parked on the side of Nevada state Route 170, but the highway was included in the temporary closure of public lands, according to BLM representative Kirsten Cannon. Dave Bundy was arrested and cited with a criminal charge of refusing to disperse and resisting officers. Cannon said all public lands are closed within the designated closure area during the removal of the trespassing cattle.
Wake up America. Look what our ancestors fought for and we need to stand up for that. We need to realize what's happening. They are taking everything away from us. This isn't only about one family. This is about everyone's family.
–Bailey Bundy Logue
Logue said Dave Bundy was taking pictures and recording on his iPad when he was asked by federal employees what he was doing. Logue said that Dave Bundy told the BLM workers that he was "exercising (his) First Amendment rights."
"He did not resist arrest, but they continued to beat him," Logue told KSL. "They put him on the ground and were standing on his head and had a dozen officers on top of him and dogs."
The Bundy family was asked to leave the premises after Dave Bundy's arrest. Logue said that there were snipers and uniformed men on the scene during the cattle impoundment.
"That's scary," Logue said. "I was angry, but there was nothing I can do. We were so outnumbered. With nothing but weapons of our cameras, we did our best at taking pictures. But when you're in that situation your mind is not thinking very straight."
Dave Bundy was released Monday afternoon. However, the Bundy family said they feel that their First Amendment rights were violated and that they were entitled to meet on state Route 170 to take pictures.
“That is against our First Amendment right," Logue said. "They say it’s a First Amendment area, but we have rights everywhere. Since when have we had First Amendment areas? That’s not what it says in the Constitution.”
The Bundy family said they organized a rally for people to meet to support their First Amendment rights and their rights to public land. The rally was held near state Route 170 and I-15 on private land and around 100 people held a peaceful protest, Cannon said.
"We have got together hundreds of people from all over the world and they are here, not because this is about cattle," Logue said. "We are asking people to come and stand up for their rights. We have lost all state sovereignty. I mean (it's like) martial law in our home town, in America."
Cannon said 134 cattle had been impounded by federal employees as of Monday afternoon, but the location will not be released during the ongoing operation. The cattle roundup was estimated to take between 21 to 30 days with further temporary closures during the operation.
“Wake up America," Logue said. "Look what our ancestors fought for and we need to stand up for that. We need to realize what’s happening. They are taking everything away from us. This isn’t only about one family. This is about everyone’s family. This is martial law and it’s in America and so what are you going to do to have it stay out of America?”
Cliven Bundy reportedly owes the BLM and U.S. government $1 million in back grazing fees, according to Cannon.
Read more at http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=29387272#MdOFMigeJ4dksV9t.99
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dhdqhllc
Posted 2014-04-08 12:24 PM (#6972800 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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 he should have paid his rent......which is pretty cheap to start with.....i don't really have any sympathy for him in regards to his ranch and living of the govt for free for the last couple of decades......so, the govt moves off his cattle ....big deal....and so they have half an army.....i don't really care either....there is a risk that it could turn into a shootout.....

but....i have a huge problem with the family members being mistreated for documenting this.....but this happens with law enforcement at every level and people need to wake up and realize that most of those involved in law enforcement do not have our rights in mind when it comes to protection......they protect the govt.....and themselves...
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lindseylou2290
Posted 2014-04-08 12:35 PM (#6972817 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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WOW. He should have been paying rent ... but why did it take so many years to "enforce" the movement of the livestock if the BLM knew he was keeping them on gov't property?

I also agree that they shouldn't have mistreated the family. There are many things I don't know about the situation ... just sucks all the way around.
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Three 4 Luck
Posted 2014-04-08 12:45 PM (#6972830 - in reply to #6972817)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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lindseylou2290 - 2014-04-08 12:35 PM WOW. He should have been paying rent ... but why did it take so many years to "enforce" the movement of the livestock if the BLM knew he was keeping them on gov't property? I also agree that they shouldn't have mistreated the family. There are many things I don't know about the situation ... just sucks all the way around.

 I agree, what took so long to enforce the rules?  I don't pretend to understand how all that works with state land/federal land/BLM, but the govt folks obviously knew for a very long time and did nothing.   And no excuse for treating the family that way. That sort of thing will get worse if we continue to tolerate it. We're throwing away what our ancestors fought for. 
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bennie1
Posted 2014-04-08 12:49 PM (#6972836 - in reply to #6972800)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:24 PM  he should have paid his rent......which is pretty cheap to start with.....i don't really have any sympathy for him in regards to his ranch and living of the govt for free for the last couple of decades......so, the govt moves off his cattle ....big deal....and so they have half an army.....i don't really care either....there is a risk that it could turn into a shootout.....



but....i have a huge problem with the family members being mistreated for documenting this.....but this happens with law enforcement at every level and people need to wake up and realize that most of those involved in law enforcement do not have our rights in mind when it comes to protection......they protect the govt.....and themselves...

I'm not sure it is as simple as nonpayment...I thought I had read where his grazing permit was terminated to protect a desert tortoise or something?  
I'm off to google... 
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bennie1
Posted 2014-04-08 12:51 PM (#6972838 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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found this below...he did stop paying the rent before the tortoise thing.

 
For 20 years, a tough-as-leather Nevada rancher and the federal government have been locked in a bitter range war over cattle grazing rights.
This weekend the confrontation got worse, when the feds hired contract cowboys to start seizing Cliven Bundy's cattle, which have been grazing on public land managed by the Bureau of Land Management. The government officials brought a show of force that included dozens of armed agents in SUVs and helicopters.
 
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Bundy, 67, who has been a rancher all his life, accuses BLM of stampeding over on his rights.
“This is a lot bigger deal than just my cows,” Bundy told FoxNews.com. “It’s a statement for freedom and liberty and the Constitution.”
The fight involves a 600,000-acre area under BLM control called Gold Butte, near the Utah border. The vast and rugged land is the habitat of the protected desert tortoise, and the land has been off-limits for cattle since 1998. Five years before that, when grazing was legal, Bundy stopped paying federal fees for the right.
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bennie1
Posted 2014-04-08 12:52 PM (#6972841 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/feds-move-in-on-nevada-rancher-herd-over-illegal-grazing/
link to the whole article
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dhdqhllc
Posted 2014-04-08 12:56 PM (#6972846 - in reply to #6972836)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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bennie1 - 2014-04-08 12:49 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:24 PM  he should have paid his rent......which is pretty cheap to start with.....i don't really have any sympathy for him in regards to his ranch and living of the govt for free for the last couple of decades......so, the govt moves off his cattle ....big deal....and so they have half an army.....i don't really care either....there is a risk that it could turn into a shootout.....



but....i have a huge problem with the family members being mistreated for documenting this.....but this happens with law enforcement at every level and people need to wake up and realize that most of those involved in law enforcement do not have our rights in mind when it comes to protection......they protect the govt.....and themselves...
I'm not sure it is as simple as nonpayment...I thought I had read where his grazing permit was terminated to protect a desert tortoise or something?  

I'm off to google... 

 it did....but the agreement they finally came to only affected 10 ranchers and it only restricted them from grazing on certain areas in a sensitive springtime period.....this was back in the 90's......i think.....seems to me that beyond the noncompliance on land he doesn't own, he hasn't paid anyone anything for 25 years.......now if i had a renter like that, the first year he didn't abide by our agreement, let alone not pay rent, his cows would have been hauled off....
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lindseylou2290
Posted 2014-04-08 12:57 PM (#6972848 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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Whiteboy - 2014-04-08 12:17 PM  There are a ton of issues at hand here, but I would be interested to know the opinions of the BHW community.
CLARK COUNTY, Nevada — A man has been released after being arrested Sunday during an ongoing dispute over grazing rights between the Bureau of Land Management and a family in southern Nevada, and the family is calling for action.

A federal judge in Las Vegas first ordered Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy to remove his trespassing cattle in 1998, according to reports from the Associated Press. Similar orders were issued in July 2013, and again in October.

Saturday, the BLM began taking some of the 908 cattle from Bundy. The BLM says Bundy's cattle have been trespassing on U.S. land without required grazing permits for over 25 years. However, Bundy said he doesn't recognize federal authority on land that he says belongs to the state of Nevada.

The BLM released a statement on its website saying, "Cattle have been in trespass on public lands in Southern Nevada for more than two decades. This is unfair to the thousands of other ranchers who graze livestock in compliance with federal laws and regulations throughout the west. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and the National Park Service (NPS) have made repeated attempts to resolve this matter administratively and judicially."

The situation escalated Saturday after Cliven Bundy's son, Dave Bundy, 37, was arrested. Members of the Bundy family had gathered to film and take pictures of the removal of their cattle in an effort to document the event, according to Cliven Bundy's daughter, Bailey Bundy Logue.

The family members had parked on the side of Nevada state Route 170, but the highway was included in the temporary closure of public lands, according to BLM representative Kirsten Cannon. Dave Bundy was arrested and cited with a criminal charge of refusing to disperse and resisting officers. Cannon said all public lands are closed within the designated closure area during the removal of the trespassing cattle.
Wake up America. Look what our ancestors fought for and we need to stand up for that. We need to realize what's happening. They are taking everything away from us. This isn't only about one family. This is about everyone's family.
–Bailey Bundy Logue


Logue said Dave Bundy was taking pictures and recording on his iPad when he was asked by federal employees what he was doing. Logue said that Dave Bundy told the BLM workers that he was "exercising (his) First Amendment rights."

"He did not resist arrest, but they continued to beat him," Logue told KSL. "They put him on the ground and were standing on his head and had a dozen officers on top of him and dogs."

The Bundy family was asked to leave the premises after Dave Bundy's arrest. Logue said that there were snipers and uniformed men on the scene during the cattle impoundment.

"That's scary," Logue said. "I was angry, but there was nothing I can do. We were so outnumbered. With nothing but weapons of our cameras, we did our best at taking pictures. But when you're in that situation your mind is not thinking very straight."

Dave Bundy was released Monday afternoon. However, the Bundy family said they feel that their First Amendment rights were violated and that they were entitled to meet on state Route 170 to take pictures.

“That is against our First Amendment right," Logue said. "They say it’s a First Amendment area, but we have rights everywhere. Since when have we had First Amendment areas? That’s not what it says in the Constitution.”

The Bundy family said they organized a rally for people to meet to support their First Amendment rights and their rights to public land. The rally was held near state Route 170 and I-15 on private land and around 100 people held a peaceful protest, Cannon said.

"We have got together hundreds of people from all over the world and they are here, not because this is about cattle," Logue said. "We are asking people to come and stand up for their rights. We have lost all state sovereignty. I mean (it's like) martial law in our home town, in America."

Cannon said 134 cattle had been impounded by federal employees as of Monday afternoon, but the location will not be released during the ongoing operation. The cattle roundup was estimated to take between 21 to 30 days with further temporary closures during the operation.

“Wake up America," Logue said. "Look what our ancestors fought for and we need to stand up for that. We need to realize what’s happening. They are taking everything away from us. This isn’t only about one family. This is about everyone’s family. This is martial law and it’s in America and so what are you going to do to have it stay out of America?”

Cliven Bundy reportedly owes the BLM and U.S. government $1 million in back grazing fees, according to Cannon.

Read more at http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=29387272#MdOFMigeJ4dksV9t.99


WHAT the WHAT??!!  So he basically picked a fight by not recognizing federal law and didn't pay his rent.  Hmmmmmmm this story will be interesting to follow as more details come out .....
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RLB
Posted 2014-04-08 12:57 PM (#6972850 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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Sounds to me like the local gov'ts are kowtowing to the great Fed instead of making a decision that they should have made a long time ago. 
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foundation horse
Posted 2014-04-08 1:00 PM (#6972859 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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I read about this event earlier this week and have decided that the BLM is #3 on My Most Despised/Hated/ unConstitutional Government Agencies List out there.
#1 IRS
#2 EPA
#3 BLM
#4 BATFE
and then throw in the Department of Education.
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foundation horse
Posted 2014-04-08 1:02 PM (#6972864 - in reply to #6972836)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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bennie1 - 2014-04-08 12:49 PM

dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:24 PM  he should have paid his rent......which is pretty cheap to start with.....i don't really have any sympathy for him in regards to his ranch and living of the govt for free for the last couple of decades......so, the govt moves off his cattle ....big deal....and so they have half an army.....i don't really care either....there is a risk that it could turn into a shootout.....



but....i have a huge problem with the family members being mistreated for documenting this.....but this happens with law enforcement at every level and people need to wake up and realize that most of those involved in law enforcement do not have our rights in mind when it comes to protection......they protect the govt.....and themselves...

I'm not sure it is as simple as nonpayment...I thought I had read where his grazing permit was terminated to protect a desert tortoise or something?  
I'm off to google... 

Desert Tortoise per the article I have read.
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foundation horse
Posted 2014-04-08 1:04 PM (#6972867 - in reply to #6972846)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:56 PM

bennie1 - 2014-04-08 12:49 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:24 PM  he should have paid his rent......which is pretty cheap to start with.....i don't really have any sympathy for him in regards to his ranch and living of the govt for free for the last couple of decades......so, the govt moves off his cattle ....big deal....and so they have half an army.....i don't really care either....there is a risk that it could turn into a shootout.....



but....i have a huge problem with the family members being mistreated for documenting this.....but this happens with law enforcement at every level and people need to wake up and realize that most of those involved in law enforcement do not have our rights in mind when it comes to protection......they protect the govt.....and themselves...
I'm not sure it is as simple as nonpayment...I thought I had read where his grazing permit was terminated to protect a desert tortoise or something?  

I'm off to google... 

 it did....but the agreement they finally came to only affected 10 ranchers and it only restricted them from grazing on certain areas in a sensitive springtime period.....this was back in the 90's......i think.....seems to me that beyond the noncompliance on land he doesn't own, he hasn't paid anyone anything for 25 years.......now if i had a renter like that, the first year he didn't abide by our agreement, let alone not pay rent, his cows would have been hauled off....

Counterpoint: As a taxpaying American Citizen, how does said Citizen 'not' own Government Land ie BLM Land? Remember, America Citizens fund the American Government.
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dhdqhllc
Posted 2014-04-08 1:06 PM (#6972869 - in reply to #6972859)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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foundation horse - 2014-04-08 1:00 PM I read about this event earlier this week and have decided that the BLM is #3 on My Most Despised/Hated/ unConstitutional Government Agencies List out there. #1 IRS #2 EPA #3 BLM #4 BATFE and then throw in the Department of Education.

that is a very disagreeable list.......although i might switch it around a little....they are all the same 
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moapajetrider
Posted 2014-04-08 1:08 PM (#6972873 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government





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We are bit involved and know cliven personally. I believe that he is okay with paying his allotment fees but believes that the state is responsible and doesnt recongize the federal aspect of the BLM. I think he said he was putting all those fees in a special savings account even though he didnt pay the BLM. Im not sure what the truth is on that. Quite a few are shaking heads. There are wrongs and rights here but really wish he hadnt picked a fight..... He has some support and quite a few that are angry that he is going to set the BLM up to run the rest of us off.... Nerve wrecking.... 
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dhdqhllc
Posted 2014-04-08 1:08 PM (#6972875 - in reply to #6972867)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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foundation horse - 2014-04-08 1:04 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:56 PM
bennie1 - 2014-04-08 12:49 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:24 PM  he should have paid his rent......which is pretty cheap to start with.....i don't really have any sympathy for him in regards to his ranch and living of the govt for free for the last couple of decades......so, the govt moves off his cattle ....big deal....and so they have half an army.....i don't really care either....there is a risk that it could turn into a shootout.....



but....i have a huge problem with the family members being mistreated for documenting this.....but this happens with law enforcement at every level and people need to wake up and realize that most of those involved in law enforcement do not have our rights in mind when it comes to protection......they protect the govt.....and themselves...
I'm not sure it is as simple as nonpayment...I thought I had read where his grazing permit was terminated to protect a desert tortoise or something?  

I'm off to google... 
 it did....but the agreement they finally came to only affected 10 ranchers and it only restricted them from grazing on certain areas in a sensitive springtime period.....this was back in the 90's......i think.....seems to me that beyond the noncompliance on land he doesn't own, he hasn't paid anyone anything for 25 years.......now if i had a renter like that, the first year he didn't abide by our agreement, let alone not pay rent, his cows would have been hauled off....
Counterpoint: As a taxpaying American Citizen, how does said Citizen 'not' own Government Land ie BLM Land? Remember, America Citizens fund the American Government.

american citizens do not own the government......while they do fund it..... 
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foundation horse
Posted 2014-04-08 1:09 PM (#6972876 - in reply to #6972869)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 1:06 PM

foundation horse - 2014-04-08 1:00 PM I read about this event earlier this week and have decided that the BLM is #3 on My Most Despised/Hated/ unConstitutional Government Agencies List out there. #1 IRS #2 EPA #3 BLM #4 BATFE and then throw in the Department of Education.

that is a very disagreeable list.......although i might switch it around a little....they are all the same 

The IRS is the World's Foremost Financial Collection and perhaps the most unConstitutional! The rest are far behind the IRS, due to the IRS's wide ranging illegal unConstitutional Powers!
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foundation horse
Posted 2014-04-08 1:11 PM (#6972879 - in reply to #6972875)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 1:08 PM

foundation horse - 2014-04-08 1:04 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:56 PM
bennie1 - 2014-04-08 12:49 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:24 PM  he should have paid his rent......which is pretty cheap to start with.....i don't really have any sympathy for him in regards to his ranch and living of the govt for free for the last couple of decades......so, the govt moves off his cattle ....big deal....and so they have half an army.....i don't really care either....there is a risk that it could turn into a shootout.....



but....i have a huge problem with the family members being mistreated for documenting this.....but this happens with law enforcement at every level and people need to wake up and realize that most of those involved in law enforcement do not have our rights in mind when it comes to protection......they protect the govt.....and themselves...
I'm not sure it is as simple as nonpayment...I thought I had read where his grazing permit was terminated to protect a desert tortoise or something?  

I'm off to google... 
 it did....but the agreement they finally came to only affected 10 ranchers and it only restricted them from grazing on certain areas in a sensitive springtime period.....this was back in the 90's......i think.....seems to me that beyond the noncompliance on land he doesn't own, he hasn't paid anyone anything for 25 years.......now if i had a renter like that, the first year he didn't abide by our agreement, let alone not pay rent, his cows would have been hauled off....
Counterpoint: As a taxpaying American Citizen, how does said Citizen 'not' own Government Land ie BLM Land? Remember, America Citizens fund the American Government.

american citizens do not own the government......while they do fund it..... 

In my lil' Constitutional Mind to fund is to Own. Especially in the case of The Federal Government when viewed from a United States Constitutional Point of View.
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Vickie
Posted 2014-04-08 1:14 PM (#6972882 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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He should have paid his rent like the rest of us.  The government charges so little for grazing rights it's not like it would have been a hardship.  If the Bureau of Land Management can't manage the land we might as well have no property rights, we all take what we want.
 
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jbhoot
Posted 2014-04-08 1:15 PM (#6972884 - in reply to #6972800)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:24 PM

 he should have paid his rent......which is pretty cheap to start with.....i don't really have any sympathy for him in regards to his ranch and living of the govt for free for the last couple of decades......so, the govt moves off his cattle ....big deal....and so they have half an army.....i don't really care either....there is a risk that it could turn into a shootout.....

but....i have a huge problem with the family members being mistreated for documenting this.....but this happens with law enforcement at every level and people need to wake up and realize that most of those involved in law enforcement do not have our rights in mind when it comes to protection......they protect the govt.....and themselves...

I would agree with you if all the facts are true. But when you read deeper this rancher and his family have been using this land since the 1880's. I tend to agree with the rancher. When you look at the history of this land I am not to sure that the BLM has a right to this land. It is certainly a gray area.
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