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Rancher VS. Government
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foundation horse
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2014-04-10 3:06 PM (#6974136 - in reply to #6974132)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


Military family

Semper Fi


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Location: North Texas
bscanchaser - 2014-04-10 3:02 PM

Whiteboy - 2014-04-10 2:43 PM

bscanchaser - 2014-04-10 1:56 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 12:47 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-10 12:44 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 12:40 PM
bscanchaser - 2014-04-10 9:54 AM
So I totally expect to get flamed (zipping up Flame suit) but as a Nevadan and knowing/reading about this story, I totally disagree with the Bundy’s.  He never owned the land(with title), he hasn’t paid his grazing right fees in 21 years, he failed to respond to multiple requests from the BLM for him to remove his cattle, he lost 2 federal court case’s and was issued court orders to remove his cattle-in which he didn’t do and is throwing a fit that they are removing them for him.    



Most ranchers in Nevada have been here since the 1800’s and are multi-generational, they have title to the land they own and then they pay AUM rent to run cattle on BLM land-the same land that they originally started grazing on.  All have had AUM number decreased due to BLM management-whether the reason was for overgrazing, fires or environmental…I’m sure they weren’t happy with the reductions but they all complied.  Basically in my opinion, Bundy wants something for free- when all the rest are paying for the same exact thing.  Why is he entitled to graze for free and what makes him entitled to be above the rest of the people who actually pay their fees and take care of their responsibilities?  Bundy’s background story is no different than any other ranching family I know-except all the others pay their dues and take care of business.  This is nothing but a black eye for the good ranchers who are diligent with managing their stock and grazing grounds.  Bundy’s are no different than the Dann Sisters, Crutcher’s or Caseys-who also found out they weren’t entitled to graze illegally and subsequently lost their herds to BLM round-ups because they also refused to remove them.  I know most people would rather not have the BLM…but what makes this type of anti-government behavior stop here?  My grandparents have lived on the same ranch they owned since the early 1900’s- are they now entitled to quit paying property taxes?  Can they just fire the county government because they choose not to recognize them as the authority of the land?



I guess for me, this isn’t any different than someone who lives off tax payers, quits paying their mortgage, fails to respond to eviction notices and then is mad that the sheriff comes to remove them and the bank takes all the possessions in the home to pay for the back owed debt… I don’t see too many people waging war in these scenarios- basically would call it life and not taking care of responsibilities to ensure they kept their house.  If you refuse to pay for your house, you don’t just miraculously get it for free-you get to move and figure something else out…

 

agreed 
Do the two of you agree with the heavy handed ways being employed by the Feds in this scenario?
the removal of the cattle was not heavy handed....in fact it should have been done years ago.....everything else....well....i said it in my previous post so you should already no the answer to the question  
Considering my neighbors husband is down there potentially risking his life to remove cattle that shouldn't be there- yes, I agree with them being armed when opposition has threatened violence. He has 3 young children that would be fatherless if something were to happen. I support city, county and state law enforcement to carry similar weapons when they are enforcing the law- why would I think the federal level shouldn't have the same protections? Several people in my little town have been assigned to this operation- all have lives that have been disrupted by a person who thinks he is above the law and all have families and friends to return to when the job is done.

Would you sell your soul for a nickel? 

Might do it for 4 pennies if it meant I was doing what I felt was right. I don't believe in blatantly breaking the law and will support those that uphold the law. As far as my neighbor- I can't answer that for him- I'm not sure.

Won't break the Law? What about breaking The Constitution? Because there exists many 'laws' that are unConstitutional. Theft is illegal. Theft by Government is illegal, do you support that?
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2014-04-10 3:07 PM (#6974137 - in reply to #6974131)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Nicknameless


Posts: 4555
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Location: I can see the end of the world from here!


 
In my original response I told bscanchaser I hoped she or he and theirs liked being a subject. Turns out I was closer than I thought! ETA Hail to The Feds! As Me and Mine: We like Our Freedom! And don't need the Feds! LOL- I guess the rest of the story is that he is LSD, knows the Bundy family well from growing up near them but isn't going to quit his paying job to support the cause because he is the only source of income. I don't really know these people because I'm not Mormon and like wine- I just happened to ask how she was when I was doing some fence work yesterday and she was walking by our place. Btw- her husband works for the US forest service... Usually manned the cleanup/prison crews so I'm sure he's a spotter down there. Wait- you're going to have to educate me- I thought the "right" side represented the people that actually worked to afford to pay for what they have and dont expect free services. He seems to be more to the left in my opinion as he comes off as a welfare rancher that is wanting free grazing. BTW- he could have protected his property by removing them himself. Maybe a lawyer on here can chime in but basically the BLM/Clark county did their due diligence by trying to get him to remove his herd for the last 20 years. Since he didn't and seems to have abandoned his cattle- does that truly fall under the definition of theft? Especially since a large number aren't branded- how can he prove he actually owns them? If my memory serves me right, the BLM did give him the option to purchase his back cattle with his brand prior to the auction.

Unless it is in the form of a pay check?  Or are the Marines not funded through the"Feds"?



karen

Come on...we all know the Armed Forces are there to protect our borders which is the ENTIRE purose of the 'federal government'.  Their role in our lives should be nothing more than that...protect our borders so we may govern ourselves within.
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ksjackofalltrades
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2014-04-10 3:09 PM (#6974138 - in reply to #6974133)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


BHW's Simon Cowell


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Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma
cyount2009 - 2014-04-10 3:02 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2014-04-10 2:31 PM
musikmaker - 2014-04-10 2:12 PM
bscanchaser - 2014-04-10 12:56 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 12:47 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-10 12:44 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 12:40 PM
bscanchaser - 2014-04-10 9:54 AM
So I totally expect to get flamed (zipping up Flame suit) but as a Nevadan and knowing/reading about this story, I totally disagree with the Bundy’s.  He never owned the land(with title), he hasn’t paid his grazing right fees in 21 years, he failed to respond to multiple requests from the BLM for him to remove his cattle, he lost 2 federal court case’s and was issued court orders to remove his cattle-in which he didn’t do and is throwing a fit that they are removing them for him.    



Most ranchers in Nevada have been here since the 1800’s and are multi-generational, they have title to the land they own and then they pay AUM rent to run cattle on BLM land-the same land that they originally started grazing on.  All have had AUM number decreased due to BLM management-whether the reason was for overgrazing, fires or environmental…I’m sure they weren’t happy with the reductions but they all complied.  Basically in my opinion, Bundy wants something for free- when all the rest are paying for the same exact thing.  Why is he entitled to graze for free and what makes him entitled to be above the rest of the people who actually pay their fees and take care of their responsibilities?  Bundy’s background story is no different than any other ranching family I know-except all the others pay their dues and take care of business.  This is nothing but a black eye for the good ranchers who are diligent with managing their stock and grazing grounds.  Bundy’s are no different than the Dann Sisters, Crutcher’s or Caseys-who also found out they weren’t entitled to graze illegally and subsequently lost their herds to BLM round-ups because they also refused to remove them.  I know most people would rather not have the BLM…but what makes this type of anti-government behavior stop here?  My grandparents have lived on the same ranch they owned since the early 1900’s- are they now entitled to quit paying property taxes?  Can they just fire the county government because they choose not to recognize them as the authority of the land?



I guess for me, this isn’t any different than someone who lives off tax payers, quits paying their mortgage, fails to respond to eviction notices and then is mad that the sheriff comes to remove them and the bank takes all the possessions in the home to pay for the back owed debt… I don’t see too many people waging war in these scenarios- basically would call it life and not taking care of responsibilities to ensure they kept their house.  If you refuse to pay for your house, you don’t just miraculously get it for free-you get to move and figure something else out…

 

agreed 
Do the two of you agree with the heavy handed ways being employed by the Feds in this scenario?
the removal of the cattle was not heavy handed....in fact it should have been done years ago.....everything else....well....i said it in my previous post so you should already no the answer to the question  
Considering my neighbors husband is down there potentially risking his life to remove cattle that shouldn't be there- yes, I agree with them being armed when opposition has threatened violence. He has 3 young children that would be fatherless if something were to happen. I support city, county and state law enforcement to carry similar weapons when they are enforcing the law- why would I think the federal level shouldn't have the same protections? Several people in my little town have been assigned to this operation- all have lives that have been disrupted by a person who thinks he is above the law and all have families and friends to return to when the job is done.
Aha!  NOW we know the 'rest of the story'!  All I can say is that for those foolish enough to wear the wrong uniform...well, sorry bout' their luck.  Maybe they should get on the 'right' side.

And yes, I mean that more than you can ever know.

Why aren't the law enforcement officials who actually have authority & jurisdiction on the scene?  It's NOT their option to just hand it over to the federal goons...they take an oath to protect our property, freedom & liberty.  Nobody forced them into that job...they better be a patriot or get the he$$ outta the way.

I offer absolutely no sympathy for those standing in the way of our freedoms or those who are helping to steal those cattle! 

America better wake the heck up.


 
 Right side??  They are American citizens, hired to do a job!  Bundy is the one who called for a Range war and is workin towards getting every goofy milita want a be in the country involved. 



Those cowboys who are there moving cattle are not the bad guys and they do not deserve to be shot at or treated like dirt either. 

Thanks to the Bundy family and their videos Growney Brothers Rodeo Co. is now receiving death threats.



If Bundy feels it is time for a range war he needs to be front and center.  And it is with the court system NOT a bunch of cowboys trying to make some day money to support their families!



karen
What is Growney's affiliation with this whole mess? I thought his crew was in Logendale putting on a rodeo?

Isn't Logandale in Clark County?   
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Whiteboy
Reg. Jul 2012
Posted 2014-04-10 3:10 PM (#6974139 - in reply to #6974138)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


Military family

That's White "Man" to You


Posts: 4412
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ksjackofalltrades - 2014-04-10 3:09 PM
cyount2009 - 2014-04-10 3:02 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2014-04-10 2:31 PM
musikmaker - 2014-04-10 2:12 PM
bscanchaser - 2014-04-10 12:56 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 12:47 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-10 12:44 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 12:40 PM
bscanchaser - 2014-04-10 9:54 AM
So I totally expect to get flamed (zipping up Flame suit) but as a Nevadan and knowing/reading about this story, I totally disagree with the Bundy’s.  He never owned the land(with title), he hasn’t paid his grazing right fees in 21 years, he failed to respond to multiple requests from the BLM for him to remove his cattle, he lost 2 federal court case’s and was issued court orders to remove his cattle-in which he didn’t do and is throwing a fit that they are removing them for him.    



Most ranchers in Nevada have been here since the 1800’s and are multi-generational, they have title to the land they own and then they pay AUM rent to run cattle on BLM land-the same land that they originally started grazing on.  All have had AUM number decreased due to BLM management-whether the reason was for overgrazing, fires or environmental…I’m sure they weren’t happy with the reductions but they all complied.  Basically in my opinion, Bundy wants something for free- when all the rest are paying for the same exact thing.  Why is he entitled to graze for free and what makes him entitled to be above the rest of the people who actually pay their fees and take care of their responsibilities?  Bundy’s background story is no different than any other ranching family I know-except all the others pay their dues and take care of business.  This is nothing but a black eye for the good ranchers who are diligent with managing their stock and grazing grounds.  Bundy’s are no different than the Dann Sisters, Crutcher’s or Caseys-who also found out they weren’t entitled to graze illegally and subsequently lost their herds to BLM round-ups because they also refused to remove them.  I know most people would rather not have the BLM…but what makes this type of anti-government behavior stop here?  My grandparents have lived on the same ranch they owned since the early 1900’s- are they now entitled to quit paying property taxes?  Can they just fire the county government because they choose not to recognize them as the authority of the land?



I guess for me, this isn’t any different than someone who lives off tax payers, quits paying their mortgage, fails to respond to eviction notices and then is mad that the sheriff comes to remove them and the bank takes all the possessions in the home to pay for the back owed debt… I don’t see too many people waging war in these scenarios- basically would call it life and not taking care of responsibilities to ensure they kept their house.  If you refuse to pay for your house, you don’t just miraculously get it for free-you get to move and figure something else out…

 

agreed 
Do the two of you agree with the heavy handed ways being employed by the Feds in this scenario?
the removal of the cattle was not heavy handed....in fact it should have been done years ago.....everything else....well....i said it in my previous post so you should already no the answer to the question  
Considering my neighbors husband is down there potentially risking his life to remove cattle that shouldn't be there- yes, I agree with them being armed when opposition has threatened violence. He has 3 young children that would be fatherless if something were to happen. I support city, county and state law enforcement to carry similar weapons when they are enforcing the law- why would I think the federal level shouldn't have the same protections? Several people in my little town have been assigned to this operation- all have lives that have been disrupted by a person who thinks he is above the law and all have families and friends to return to when the job is done.
Aha!  NOW we know the 'rest of the story'!  All I can say is that for those foolish enough to wear the wrong uniform...well, sorry bout' their luck.  Maybe they should get on the 'right' side.

And yes, I mean that more than you can ever know.

Why aren't the law enforcement officials who actually have authority & jurisdiction on the scene?  It's NOT their option to just hand it over to the federal goons...they take an oath to protect our property, freedom & liberty.  Nobody forced them into that job...they better be a patriot or get the he$$ outta the way.

I offer absolutely no sympathy for those standing in the way of our freedoms or those who are helping to steal those cattle! 

America better wake the heck up.


 
 Right side??  They are American citizens, hired to do a job!  Bundy is the one who called for a Range war and is workin towards getting every goofy milita want a be in the country involved. 



Those cowboys who are there moving cattle are not the bad guys and they do not deserve to be shot at or treated like dirt either. 

Thanks to the Bundy family and their videos Growney Brothers Rodeo Co. is now receiving death threats.



If Bundy feels it is time for a range war he needs to be front and center.  And it is with the court system NOT a bunch of cowboys trying to make some day money to support their families!



karen
What is Growney's affiliation with this whole mess? I thought his crew was in Logendale putting on a rodeo?
Isn't Logandale in Clark County?   

About an hour from the "fight". 
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foundation horse
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2014-04-10 3:11 PM (#6974140 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


Military family

Semper Fi


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Location: North Texas
Stitk9, you know what? I would gladly go w/o a paycheck to support The Constitution! Cause w/o the Constitution I wouldn't entitled to a paycheck anyway! Cause the Feds would 'allot' the fruits of my labor(s) to someone else who has done as much and call 'it' equality!
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2014-04-10 3:13 PM (#6974141 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Nicknameless


Posts: 4555
200020005002525
Location: I can see the end of the world from here!
Love the Clark County Rodeo!  
Here's a good 'capture' of yesterday's brutality:

http://instagram.com/p/mmChBWjOkK/#

 
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Whiteboy
Reg. Jul 2012
Posted 2014-04-10 3:17 PM (#6974143 - in reply to #6974141)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


Military family

That's White "Man" to You


Posts: 4412
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musikmaker - 2014-04-10 3:13 PM Love the Clark County Rodeo!  

Here's a good 'capture' of yesterday's brutality:



http://instagram.com/p/mmChBWjOkK/#


 

The fair and rodeo is one of the best around! 
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GoGaited
Reg. May 2013
Posted 2014-04-10 3:32 PM (#6974151 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Veteran


Posts: 292
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Location: Northeast Nebraska
This guy is the LAST rancher in this county. This isn't about grazing fees, or "endangered" tortoises. It's about tyranny, control of land, people, food and water. He has been fighting for decades, until a corrupt FEDERAL judge let loose the hounds of hell. I hope plenty of jack booted, brown shirted blood is shed. And I have NO sympathy for treasonous "cowboys" willing to sell their souls to the devil. If you work for Satan, expect to get in the crossfire.

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foundation horse
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2014-04-10 3:37 PM (#6974156 - in reply to #6974151)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


Military family

Semper Fi


5000500050005000500050001000100100100100252525
Location: North Texas
GoGaited - 2014-04-10 3:32 PM

This guy is the LAST rancher in this county. This isn't about grazing fees, or "endangered" tortoises. It's about tyranny, control of land, people, food and water. He has been fighting for decades, until a corrupt FEDERAL judge let loose the hounds of hell. I hope plenty of jack booted, brown shirted blood is shed. And I have NO sympathy for treasonous "cowboys" willing to sell their souls to the devil. If you work for Satan, expect to get in the crossfire.


And more information is revealed.
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FlyingJT
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-04-10 3:46 PM (#6974159 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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MS2011
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2014-04-10 3:59 PM (#6974165 - in reply to #6974141)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Own It and Move On


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Location: TEXAS!!!
musikmaker - 2014-04-10 3:13 PM Love the Clark County Rodeo!  

Here's a good 'capture' of yesterday's brutality:



http://instagram.com/p/mmChBWjOkK/#


 

WOW!!!

That's awful.  This needs to be on every news feed there is, that guy needs charged.

 
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rodeomom13
Reg. Apr 2008
Posted 2014-04-10 4:01 PM (#6974166 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



I'm not opinionated


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FlyingJT
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-04-10 4:02 PM (#6974168 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Expert


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dhdqhllc
Reg. Feb 2011
Posted 2014-04-10 4:19 PM (#6974174 - in reply to #6974159)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Always Off Topic


Posts: 6382
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FlyingJT - 2014-04-10 3:46 PM https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152076448588506&set=vb.68...
urban vs rural expansion is a huge problem...issue...whatever you want to call it.....

still doesn't change my mind on the guys who would see every last tortoise (not turtle), wolf, mountain lion, bobcat, snake, whatever, exterminated so they could have a bunch of cows on cheap govt land......of course, plenty of purely private guys are no different.......the land should be cleared except for cows and grass or crops.....unless it's some animal they can make money off of....elk, moose, ducks, pheasants.....obviously those are the only good animals....
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2014-04-10 4:33 PM (#6974181 - in reply to #6974174)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Nicknameless


Posts: 4555
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Location: I can see the end of the world from here!
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 3:19 PM
FlyingJT - 2014-04-10 3:46 PM https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152076448588506&set=vb.68... urban vs rural expansion is a huge problem...issue...whatever you want to call it.....



still doesn't change my mind on the guys who would see every last tortoise (not turtle), wolf, mountain lion, bobcat, snake, whatever, exterminated so they could have a bunch of cows on cheap govt land......of course, plenty of purely private guys are no different.......the land should be cleared except for cows and grass or crops.....unless it's some animal they can make money off of....elk, moose, ducks, pheasants.....obviously those are the only good animals....

How do you read that into any of this?
Fyi...the so-called endangered species issues are nothing more than a ruse...google Doyel Shamely IF you want to get educated on our public lands & the many ways we've been duped.  Please.

 
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dhdqhllc
Reg. Feb 2011
Posted 2014-04-10 4:37 PM (#6974183 - in reply to #6974181)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Always Off Topic


Posts: 6382
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Location: ND
musikmaker - 2014-04-10 4:33 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 3:19 PM
FlyingJT - 2014-04-10 3:46 PM https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152076448588506&set=vb.68... urban vs rural expansion is a huge problem...issue...whatever you want to call it.....

still doesn't change my mind on the guys who would see every last tortoise (not turtle), wolf, mountain lion, bobcat, snake, whatever, exterminated so they could have a bunch of cows on cheap govt land......of course, plenty of purely private guys are no different.......the land should be cleared except for cows and grass or crops.....unless it's some animal they can make money off of....elk, moose, ducks, pheasants.....obviously those are the only good animals....
How do you read that into any of this?
Fyi...the so-called endangered species issues are nothing more than a ruse...google Doyel Shamely IF you want to get educated on our public lands & the many ways we've been duped.  Please.

 
not to say that there aren't plenty of ways these issues have been used to try to dupe us but if you really think that endangered species are nothing more than a ruse, then you really have been duped and somehow can ignore history... 

and i didn't have to read that into it.....i listened to what he said


Edited by dhdqhllc 2014-04-10 4:38 PM
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Whiteboy
Reg. Jul 2012
Posted 2014-04-10 5:19 PM (#6974194 - in reply to #6974051)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


Military family

That's White "Man" to You


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Whiteboy - 2014-04-10 1:33 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 12:46 PM i watched his interview last night......he is getting what he deserves.........which is a completely separate issue from federal 'ownership' of all the acres.....which is continually increasing........nor is it part of the issue involved with beieng able to video what is taking place.......which is not just a problem with federal enforcers, it is every level of govt enforcement......



but, back to Bundy......run the sucker off..... 
 And then once he is gone, move onto each national park and monument and run off the cattlemen, then close the roads, then run off the horseback riders.  After all it should be the granola eating, subaru driving hippies that should have uninterupted access. 



Oh wait...that is already happening. (Escalante Grand Staircase National Monument)


 

As we talk about this issue I received an email from a friend requesting comments on rule changes in the Bryce Canyon National Park.  This park is an hour from my house.  I basicly grew up ridding my horses in the park.  Now they want to restrict private citizens form riding in the park and make it incredibly difficult for guide companys to access the park as well.  Here is the email.  Feel free to send in a comment if you are willing.   

Back County Horsemen of America
Working to keep trails open on public lands.
Back Country Horsemen of America E-Blast
April 7, 2014
Action Alert:       Deadline for Comments: May 24, 2014 (midnight Mountain time zone)
Proposed Rule Change for Private Horse Use –Bryce Canyon National Park
 
Dear BCHA members,
 
Bryce Canyon National Park has proposed changes for users of privately-owned stock on designated horse trails within the park. The changes are intended to ensure the safety of all visitors and to protect park resources. The park initiated a public comment period on the proposed changes for 30 days beginning March 26, 2014.
 
The changes proposed by Bryce Canyon National Park include a requirement that all horseback riding must be coordinated with the park’s authorized trail-ride concessioner, prior to entering the park. Of concern, however, is that private stock users also would be required to the pay a substantial fee to the park’s concessioner to guide and accompany all privately-owned stock riding groups for the duration of their trip over any portion of the eight miles of park trails available for stock use.
 
The fee that would be charged by the concessioner for this service would be based on the number of riders, up to eight riders per guide. The proposed fee schedule would range from $100 for the first rider to $345 for eight riders.
 
For more information, view the Park’s website here:
http://www.nps.gov/brca/parknews/proposed-rule-change-for-private-horse-use.htm
 
If approved, the proposed changes would represent a new and disturbing precedent among National Parks to require all private stock users to hire a commercial guide. We are not aware of any National Park where such a requirement currently exists. Nor does BCHA want to see this precedent established at Bryce Canyon. In order to adequately resolve concerns regarding visitor safety, we believe that alternative measures can be taken that emphasize rider education, resource protection, and the role of law enforcement in dealing with rogue riders who choose to violate the rules.
 
The public is encouraged to submit comments by April 24, 2014, via email to the following address: brca_information@nps.gov, or mail your comments to: Program Analyst, Bryce Canyon National Park, P.O. Box 640201, Bryce, Utah 84764
 
BCHA’s Advisor for Wilderness & Recreation is coordinating the public comment effort with BCH Utah’s Officer for Public Lands. They recommend you consider including some or all of the following talking points in your comments to Bryce Canyon National Park.
 
Remember, “Cool heads prevail.” It’s important to be courteous, to make constructive recommendations that address the safety problem and, importantly, to demonstrate your passion and knowledge by adding your personal story among these talking points:
 
·         I am writing about the Proposed Rule Change for Private Horse Use.
·         As a private user of recreational stock, I recognize the importance of minimizing safety hazards and resource damage on our public lands.
·         I appreciate the Park Superintendent’s announcement of a 30-day comment period on the matter. By doing so, he recognized the high level of public interest and desire of visitors who use their horses and mules to enjoy the beauty and splendor of Bryce Canyon and other National Parks.
·         I understand that portions of the trails at Bryce Canyon are unusually narrow and steep. This is why horse trails at the park are designated “one-way,” in order to minimize the potential for parties on horseback to pass each other along segments of trail where it is dangerous to do so.
·         I understand that additional measures are needed to avoid private and commercially-guided parties from converging at those sections of trail where there is high safety risk.
·         I do not, however, support the park’s current proposal that all private stock parties be required to hire the services of a commercial guide.
·         Instead, I understand the Park Superintendent is open to constructive comments that would help alleviate the safety situation and ensure that riders stay on designated trails and not damage park resources.
·         In addition to the currently required 48-hour advance check-in by private stock users, I recommend the park adopt an alternative that would restrict the time(s) of day a private party be allowed to traverse sections of trail where there is high safety risk, in order to allow commercially-guided trips safe passage.
·         I understand the need to minimize damage to off-trail soils and cultural resources.
·         I recommend that private stock parties be required to check in--prior to riding in the park--both to coordinate departure/itinerary logistics regarding rider safety and to receive a briefing from either park or commercial outfitter personnel. The briefing could be used to convey regulations pertaining to use of park trails, including prohibitions on off-trail travel, cutting of switchbacks and riding parallel or side-by-side on designated trails where the trail tread is narrow.
·         I do not object to paying a modest fee to cover agency and/or commercial outfitter costs associated with the recommended pre-departure briefing for private stock parties. 
·         I encourage the Park Service to explore methods by which NPS law enforcement personnel can more readily identify and make contact with stock users who do not follow the rules. These methods should emphasize streamlined communication with park volunteers and the stock concession operator to report violations in a timely manner.
·         I understand that Back Country Horsemen of Utah (BCHU) has volunteered to assist the Park Service in developing a curriculum of the pre-trip training for private stock users. They have several Master Trainers versed in Leave No Trace techniques, and the Park Service would benefit from cultivating closer relations with BCHU and enlisting their assistance.
·         I appreciate this opportunity to provide public comment.
·         Thank you for your effort to make the unique trail experience offered at Bryce Canyon safe and affordable for everyone. I look forward to my next visit to Bryce Canyon National Park.
 BCHA: Working to insure that public lands remain open to recreational stock use.
 Forgot to renew your membership? Donate to BCHA now!
 
This e-blast is not meant to take the place of our hard copy newsletter but to inform and communicate on issues in a timelier manner. This does not take away from the roll of your National Directors on issues of a more BCHA nature that are the responsibility of your elected National Directors. Please feel free to pass this newsletter on to members and non-members who might not have email.
 Don’t forget to Like us on Facebook.com at: http://www.facebook.com/#!/bcha.org. We have had to date 2,260 likes on our Facebook page. It is a good place to post your chapter, affiliates and at-large members to post updates and information on accomplishments and upcoming events and work days.
 
About Back Country Horsemen of America
 
BCHA is a non-profit corporation made up of state organizations, affiliates, and at large members. Their efforts have brought about positive changes in regards to the use of horses and stock in the wilderness and public lands.
 If you want to know more about Back Country Horsemen of America or become a member, visit our website: www.backcountryhorse.com, call 888-893-5161, or write PO Box 1367, Graham, WA 98338-1367. The future of horse use on public lands is in our hands!
 

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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2014-04-10 5:38 PM (#6974205 - in reply to #6974183)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Nicknameless


Posts: 4555
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Location: I can see the end of the world from here!
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 3:37 PM
musikmaker - 2014-04-10 4:33 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 3:19 PM
FlyingJT - 2014-04-10 3:46 PM https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152076448588506&set=vb.68... urban vs rural expansion is a huge problem...issue...whatever you want to call it.....



still doesn't change my mind on the guys who would see every last tortoise (not turtle), wolf, mountain lion, bobcat, snake, whatever, exterminated so they could have a bunch of cows on cheap govt land......of course, plenty of purely private guys are no different.......the land should be cleared except for cows and grass or crops.....unless it's some animal they can make money off of....elk, moose, ducks, pheasants.....obviously those are the only good animals....
How do you read that into any of this?

Fyi...the so-called endangered species issues are nothing more than a ruse...google Doyel Shamely IF you want to get educated on our public lands & the many ways we've been duped.  Please.


 
not to say that there aren't plenty of ways these issues have been used to try to dupe us but if you really think that endangered species are nothing more than a ruse, then you really have been duped and somehow can ignore history... 



and i didn't have to read that into it.....i listened to what he said

He said the tortoise & the cattle got along just fine.  They both eat the same thing but in no way was the range ever in jeopardy over grazing.
I've been duped before, I'm sure...just don't think the real concern of the environmentalists is for the animal.
Years ago my husband was the 'bad guy', he's the one who did all the controversial uranium exploration at the Grand Canyon, suffice it to say we have some experience with the types who receive monies to 'protest'...most of them at that time didn't even know what they were protesting, just new it was a party...and they got money to show up!  Idk if they were paid extra to damage equipment.  Wouldn't surprise me coming from those nice, animal loving souls.  Uh-huh.

 
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dhdqhllc
Reg. Feb 2011
Posted 2014-04-10 6:00 PM (#6974209 - in reply to #6974205)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Always Off Topic


Posts: 6382
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Location: ND
musikmaker - 2014-04-10 5:38 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 3:37 PM
musikmaker - 2014-04-10 4:33 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 3:19 PM
FlyingJT - 2014-04-10 3:46 PM https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152076448588506&set=vb.68... urban vs rural expansion is a huge problem...issue...whatever you want to call it.....



still doesn't change my mind on the guys who would see every last tortoise (not turtle), wolf, mountain lion, bobcat, snake, whatever, exterminated so they could have a bunch of cows on cheap govt land......of course, plenty of purely private guys are no different.......the land should be cleared except for cows and grass or crops.....unless it's some animal they can make money off of....elk, moose, ducks, pheasants.....obviously those are the only good animals....
How do you read that into any of this?

Fyi...the so-called endangered species issues are nothing more than a ruse...google Doyel Shamely IF you want to get educated on our public lands & the many ways we've been duped.  Please.


 
not to say that there aren't plenty of ways these issues have been used to try to dupe us but if you really think that endangered species are nothing more than a ruse, then you really have been duped and somehow can ignore history... 



and i didn't have to read that into it.....i listened to what he said
He said the tortoise & the cattle got along just fine.  They both eat the same thing but in no way was the range ever in jeopardy over grazing.

I've been duped before, I'm sure...just don't think the real concern of the environmentalists is for the animal.

Years ago my husband was the 'bad guy', he's the one who did all the controversial uranium exploration at the Grand Canyon, suffice it to say we have some experience with the types who receive monies to 'protest'...most of them at that time didn't even know what they were protesting, just new it was a party...and they got money to show up!  Idk if they were paid extra to damage equipment.  Wouldn't surprise me coming from those nice, animal loving souls.  Uh-huh.


 

 yes....and at times he said turtle.....they are not the same.......so i would bet my salary he doesn't know anything about the desert tortoise......or that their is a difference between a tortoise and a turtle....

and along that line, he obviously isn't to interested in the grass issue in regards to the tortoise......there does need to be a balance......and a decent plan between interests isn't a bad thing.....but obviously that opinion  paints us as on the side of a govt takeover, which everyone on here already knows where i stand......but hey, musikmaker (and i still prefer the sexy pirate), if you're ranch was looking to expand and all the surrounding land for 30 miles was owned by a guy that grazed it to the dirt and ruined it for the next 50 years or more (and in desert country, that's no joke) (and happens)......would you be support that ranchers right to destroy that land, maybe for 100 years, just because it was private land and the owners right......?????    now you've got no where to grow.....now make that rancher a renter....(and i realize this federal land control issue is a big one and one i would like to see decrease)....but i can't imagine that if you were the landlord, that you would let a renter do this to your land without kicking them off long before too much damage was done....wouldn't you????   well, public land isn't just managed for the benefit of the cattlemen......hhell, they get enough of a subsidy with the cheap grazing rights they have and can retain....now it's a huge problem that they still have to work with a govt that goes from  one extreme to the other and continually whittles away rights......but just because something involves the environment, doesn't mean it's a ruse....
but hey.....let ignore good science unless it supports our side....
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Nevertooold
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2014-04-10 6:43 PM (#6974223 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land


Posts: 64768
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Location: In the Hills of Texas
They just said he was the last rancher left in that county and that around 50 other ranchers that were his neighbors have been put out of business by the Federal Government. It looks like we might have another Ruby Ridge like stand off. They say there are militants on the way to help defend the rancher. 
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