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Rancher VS. Government
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RLB
Posted 2014-04-08 1:19 PM (#6972885 - in reply to #6972884)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Uh....never mind


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jbhoot - 2014-04-08 1:15 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:24 PM  he should have paid his rent......which is pretty cheap to start with.....i don't really have any sympathy for him in regards to his ranch and living of the govt for free for the last couple of decades......so, the govt moves off his cattle ....big deal....and so they have half an army.....i don't really care either....there is a risk that it could turn into a shootout.....



but....i have a huge problem with the family members being mistreated for documenting this.....but this happens with law enforcement at every level and people need to wake up and realize that most of those involved in law enforcement do not have our rights in mind when it comes to protection......they protect the govt.....and themselves...
I would agree with you if all the facts are true. But when you read deeper this rancher and his family have been using this land since the 1880's. I tend to agree with the rancher. When you look at the history of this land I am not to sure that the BLM has a right to this land. It is certainly a gray area.

If they're going to have a leg to stand on with this train of thought, then all of the Native 'rights' to land don't stand either. The Fed rules it all. 
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foundation horse
Posted 2014-04-08 1:24 PM (#6972888 - in reply to #6972882)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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Vickie - 2014-04-08 1:14 PM

He should have paid his rent like the rest of us.  The government charges so little for grazing rights it's not like it would have been a hardship.  If the Bureau of Land Management can't manage the land we might as well have no property rights, we all take what we want.
 

Per the Government: Unless a Property OWNER, pays something called TAXES, then said OWNER has no RIGHTS. Cease paying any kind of Property Taxes and see what happens to Owner's RIGHTS. OWNERS that have CLEAR DEEDS of TITLE to said Property.
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FlyingJT
Posted 2014-04-08 1:26 PM (#6972891 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government





5001002525
Heres another article, reliable I don't know

http://www.infowars.com/armed-feds-prepare-for-showdown-with-nevada...

It seems that facts seem to be in short supply when the government is involved!!
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cyount2009
Posted 2014-04-08 1:34 PM (#6972899 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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This story has been gracing our local news for the last couple of months.

The "trespassing" issue is being pushed by a group of individuals who feel that the tortoises and the cattle are competing for habitat and feed. The lease that Bundy's cattle are "trespassing" on is legally owned by a habitat conservation organization.

He did not pay his grazing fees, plain and simple, and there for he should be responsible for that. BLM grazing fees are set at $1.35 an animal unit or $16.20 per animal unit per year as of 2013. This amounts to $14,709.60 per year IF all of the 908 head were weaned cattle, which I highly doubt. How the BLM determined he owes over $1M in back fees is beyond me. With his current heard and the current permit fees his total owed would be $220,640.40 a far cry from the estimated back fees the government is claiming he owes. Even if he had 3 times the number of cattle on that lease at the time it still would not meet the $1M estimate.

Why the BLM did not take action for 15 years is beyond me. They should have pursued the removal back in 1998 rather than allowing it escalate.

As for the treatment of the family, that is absolutely deplorable assuming they were "assembling" peacefully. There has not been too much light shown on the treatment in our local news. I did see Bundy on a broadcast this morning explaining his stance and the treatment of the family but at that the BLM and other government entities were declining to make statements.



Edited by cyount2009 2014-04-08 1:41 PM
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Whiteboy
Posted 2014-04-08 1:35 PM (#6972900 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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This problem is directly related to one of our own.  The county I live in connects to the county Cliven runs his cattle on.  The BLM have done such a poor job at manageing the wild horse herds that they have reproduced beyond control.  The deal our county commissioners along with the county commissioners to the south of us is that if the BLM cant manage the land they are in chage of we will do it for them.  In our case, if they touch Bundys cattle, we start collecting their horses.  This is all coming unraveled, with far reaching effects.  Most people wont involve themselves until it is their cheese that was taken.  People, this has nothing to do with cows, Bundy or horses, it is all about bloated government and the need for everyone of us to involve ourselves, or it will be you next.   

Edited by Whiteboy 2014-04-08 3:29 PM
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KylaKris
Posted 2014-04-08 2:02 PM (#6972919 - in reply to #6972900)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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Whiteboy - 2014-04-08 12:35 PM

This problem is directly related to one of our own.  The county I live in connects to the county Cliven runs his cattle on.  The BLM have done such a poor job at manageing the wild horse herds that they have reproduced beyond control.  The deal our county commissioners along with the county commissioners to the south of us is that if the BLM cant manage the land they are in chage of we will do it for them.  In our case, if they touch Bundys cattle, we start collecting thier horses.  This is all coming unraveled, with far reaching effects.  Most people wont involve themselves until it is their cheese that was taken.  People, this has nothing to do with cows, Bundy or horses, it is all about bloated government and the need for everyone of us to involve ourselves, or it will be you next.   

I cannot stand the BLM for the reasoning on their precious tortoise and the mustangs are a whole other story. I have seen both affect my families cattle in Southern Nevada. The horses are so overpopulated and uncontrolled that even if you pay for a HORSE FREE permit to run your cattle, they still find a way in to eat and drink what should be there for the cattle. I don't know the whole story, but it is the action of the government doing what it does best being azzhats!
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dhdqhllc
Posted 2014-04-08 2:27 PM (#6972937 - in reply to #6972884)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Always Off Topic


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jbhoot - 2014-04-08 1:15 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-08 12:24 PM  he should have paid his rent......which is pretty cheap to start with.....i don't really have any sympathy for him in regards to his ranch and living of the govt for free for the last couple of decades......so, the govt moves off his cattle ....big deal....and so they have half an army.....i don't really care either....there is a risk that it could turn into a shootout.....



but....i have a huge problem with the family members being mistreated for documenting this.....but this happens with law enforcement at every level and people need to wake up and realize that most of those involved in law enforcement do not have our rights in mind when it comes to protection......they protect the govt.....and themselves...
I would agree with you if all the facts are true. But when you read deeper this rancher and his family have been using this land since the 1880's. I tend to agree with the rancher. When you look at the history of this land I am not to sure that the BLM has a right to this land. It is certainly a gray area.

but then make that your argument.....what i gather is that he's not claiming any private right, just that the state owns it instead of the feds......i could understand that argument.....although a tough one to go on at this point.... 
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dhdqhllc
Posted 2014-04-08 2:30 PM (#6972940 - in reply to #6972899)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Always Off Topic


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cyount2009 - 2014-04-08 1:34 PM This story has been gracing our local news for the last couple of months. The "trespassing" issue is being pushed by a group of individuals who feel that the tortoises and the cattle are competing for habitat and feed. The lease that Bundy's cattle are "trespassing" on is legally owned by a habitat conservation organization. He did not pay his grazing fees, plain and simple, and there for he should be responsible for that. BLM grazing fees are set at $1.35 an animal unit or $16.20 per animal unit per year as of 2013. This amounts to $14,709.60 per year IF all of the 908 head were weaned cattle, which I highly doubt. How the BLM determined he owes over $1M in back fees is beyond me. With his current heard and the current permit fees his total owed would be $220,640.40 a far cry from the estimated back fees the government is claiming he owes. Even if he had 3 times the number of cattle on that lease at the time it still would not meet the $1M estimate. Why the BLM did not take action for 15 years is beyond me. They should have pursued the removal back in 1998 rather than allowing it escalate. As for the treatment of the family, that is absolutely deplorable assuming they were "assembling" peacefully. There has not been too much light shown on the treatment in our local news. I did see Bundy on a broadcast this morning explaining his stance and the treatment of the family but at that the BLM and other government entities were declining to make statements.
the issue with persuing this has been a great example of how our govt agencies choose or do not choose to enforce things......previous administrations left this one alone as far as enforcement.....much like the current administration chooses to minimally enforce illegal alien deportations... but go after this.....(although i think rightly so)

Edited by dhdqhllc 2014-04-08 2:32 PM
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dhdqhllc
Posted 2014-04-08 2:31 PM (#6972941 - in reply to #6972900)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



Always Off Topic


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Whiteboy - 2014-04-08 1:35 PM This problem is directly related to one of our own.  The county I live in connects to the county Cliven runs his cattle on.  The BLM have done such a poor job at manageing the wild horse herds that they have reproduced beyond control.  The deal our county commissioners along with the county commissioners to the south of us is that if the BLM cant manage the land they are in chage of we will do it for them.  In our case, if they touch Bundys cattle, we start collecting thier horses.  This is all coming unraveled, with far reaching effects.  Most people wont involve themselves until it is their cheese that was taken.  People, this has nothing to do with cows, Bundy or horses, it is all about bloated government and the need for everyone of us to involve ourselves, or it will be you next.   

boom..... 
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GoGaited
Posted 2014-04-08 5:31 PM (#6973100 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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I don't believe one **** word any **** government agency says.  Fluke the blm and the federal government and every jack booted thug working for them. 
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Black Horse
Posted 2014-04-08 5:39 PM (#6973104 - in reply to #6972919)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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KylaKris - 2014-04-08 1:02 PM
Whiteboy - 2014-04-08 12:35 PM This problem is directly related to one of our own.  The county I live in connects to the county Cliven runs his cattle on.  The BLM have done such a poor job at manageing the wild horse herds that they have reproduced beyond control.  The deal our county commissioners along with the county commissioners to the south of us is that if the BLM cant manage the land they are in chage of we will do it for them.  In our case, if they touch Bundys cattle, we start collecting thier horses.  This is all coming unraveled, with far reaching effects.  Most people wont involve themselves until it is their cheese that was taken.  People, this has nothing to do with cows, Bundy or horses, it is all about bloated government and the need for everyone of us to involve ourselves, or it will be you next.   
I cannot stand the BLM for the reasoning on their precious tortoise and the mustangs are a whole other story. I have seen both affect my families cattle in Southern Nevada. The horses are so overpopulated and uncontrolled that even if you pay for a HORSE FREE permit to run your cattle, they still find a way in to eat and drink what should be there for the cattle. I don't know the whole story, but it is the action of the government doing what it does best being azzhats!

 From what I understand the Bundy family has been using the land for well over 100 years, since the 1880s.  Since before the BLM existed, and now they want to get involved, sounds to me like someone is trying to justify their jobs at our expense.
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lindseylou2290
Posted 2014-04-09 10:50 AM (#6973392 - in reply to #6973104)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government



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Black Horse - 2014-04-08 5:39 PM

KylaKris - 2014-04-08 1:02 PM
Whiteboy - 2014-04-08 12:35 PM This problem is directly related to one of our own.  The county I live in connects to the county Cliven runs his cattle on.  The BLM have done such a poor job at manageing the wild horse herds that they have reproduced beyond control.  The deal our county commissioners along with the county commissioners to the south of us is that if the BLM cant manage the land they are in chage of we will do it for them.  In our case, if they touch Bundys cattle, we start collecting thier horses.  This is all coming unraveled, with far reaching effects.  Most people wont involve themselves until it is their cheese that was taken.  People, this has nothing to do with cows, Bundy or horses, it is all about bloated government and the need for everyone of us to involve ourselves, or it will be you next.   
I cannot stand the BLM for the reasoning on their precious tortoise and the mustangs are a whole other story. I have seen both affect my families cattle in Southern Nevada. The horses are so overpopulated and uncontrolled that even if you pay for a HORSE FREE permit to run your cattle, they still find a way in to eat and drink what should be there for the cattle. I don't know the whole story, but it is the action of the government doing what it does best being azzhats!

 From what I understand the Bundy family has been using the land for well over 100 years, since the 1880s.  Since before the BLM existed, and now they want to get involved, sounds to me like someone is trying to justify their jobs at our expense.

yeah ... I'd love to know the whole story ... I got some background as my BFF worked for the BLM in NV for 2 years before she had enough of the politics, to quote her "it's a freakin' ticking time bomb" there in reference to all the issues ....

Hopefully the media can or will report all sides of this ...
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FlyingJT
Posted 2014-04-09 12:08 PM (#6973432 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government





5001002525
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/25/government-plans-to-euthanize...

Government plans to euthanize hundreds of desert tortoises after budget cuts to refuge

Edited by FlyingJT 2014-04-09 12:11 PM
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FlyingJT
Posted 2014-04-09 12:34 PM (#6973448 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government





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https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2014/04/04/mgk-range-war-i...

Range war: County resolves to solve wild horse problem if BLM prioritizes Bundy cattle

IRON COUNTY – Earlier this week Iron County Commission sent a letter to the Bureau of Land Management regarding the agency’s activity in Clark County, Nev., versus its apparent lack thereof in Iron County concerning an ongoing problem of feral horses and burros within the county.
Addressed to Neil Kornze, the BLM’s principal deputy director, and Amy Lueders, the BLM Nevada state director, the letter begins: “Please be advised that the decision of the BLM in Clark County Nevada to force trespass on private citizens has triggered our interest in Iron County, Utah and has spillover ramifications.”
Sponsor
In the letter, the County Commission states the BLM is spending around $2 million to impound the cattle of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, while at the same time saying it has no money to deal with the feral horse issue.

**more in the article attached**

**letter to BLM**
http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/216192732-Ir...

**
http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2014/04/05/mgk-range-war-b...

Edited by FlyingJT 2014-04-09 12:42 PM
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foundation horse
Posted 2014-04-09 12:45 PM (#6973451 - in reply to #6973448)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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FlyingJT - 2014-04-09 12:34 PM

https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2014/04/04/mgk-range-war-i...

Range war: County resolves to solve wild horse problem if BLM prioritizes Bundy cattle

IRON COUNTY – Earlier this week Iron County Commission sent a letter to the Bureau of Land Management regarding the agency’s activity in Clark County, Nev., versus its apparent lack thereof in Iron County concerning an ongoing problem of feral horses and burros within the county.
Addressed to Neil Kornze, the BLM’s principal deputy director, and Amy Lueders, the BLM Nevada state director, the letter begins: “Please be advised that the decision of the BLM in Clark County Nevada to force trespass on private citizens has triggered our interest in Iron County, Utah and has spillover ramifications.”
Sponsor
In the letter, the County Commission states the BLM is spending around $2 million to impound the cattle of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, while at the same time saying it has no money to deal with the feral horse issue.

**more in the article attached**

**letter to BLM**
http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/216192732-Ir...

**
http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2014/04/05/mgk-range-war-b...
Interesting is it not? Evidently there is money enough to confiscate Private Property (Cattle) and harass Private Citizens, but publicly speaking there is NO money to control feral horse and donkey bands. Hypocrisy in action for the Public's Viewing!
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FlyingJT
Posted 2014-04-09 12:49 PM (#6973454 - in reply to #6973451)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government





5001002525
 Interesting is it not? Evidently there is money enough to confiscate Private Property (Cattle) and harass Private Citizens, but publicly speaking there is NO money to control feral horse and donkey bands. Hypocrisy in action for the Public's Viewing!

That it is!!!
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Whiteboy
Posted 2014-04-09 2:13 PM (#6973482 - in reply to #6973454)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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FlyingJT - 2014-04-09 12:49 PM
 Interesting is it not? Evidently there is money enough to confiscate Private Property (Cattle) and harass Private Citizens, but publicly speaking there is NO money to control feral horse and donkey bands. Hypocrisy in action for the Public's Viewing!
That it is!!!

With the horse problem we are talking several thousand horses that need to be removed.  But how many horses does the BLM already have in holding facilities right now?  The answer is 10's of thousands.  Removing them from the range and then paying contractors tons of money to just hold them doesn't seem like a mangament plan.   
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foundation horse
Posted 2014-04-09 2:25 PM (#6973490 - in reply to #6973482)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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Whiteboy - 2014-04-09 2:13 PM

FlyingJT - 2014-04-09 12:49 PM
 Interesting is it not? Evidently there is money enough to confiscate Private Property (Cattle) and harass Private Citizens, but publicly speaking there is NO money to control feral horse and donkey bands. Hypocrisy in action for the Public's Viewing!
That it is!!!

With the horse problem we are talking several thousand horses that need to be removed.  But how many horses does the BLM already have in holding facilities right now?  The answer is 10's of thousands.  Removing them from the range and then paying contractors tons of money to just hold them doesn't seem like a mangament plan.   

It is not. It is a Monetary Black Hole!
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KylaKris
Posted 2014-04-09 3:39 PM (#6973530 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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Found this that someone had posted on TheBlaze FB. It was written by Cliven's daughter:

"Sorry this is long but applicable here. By SHIREE BUNDY COX: I have had people ask me to explain my dad's stance on this BLM fight. Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it s in a nut shell. My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the servival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars. These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights. Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repaires and improvements of the ranches. My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began using these money's against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with they're own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a penence he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren't doing their job. He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down. So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes. In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business. Well when buying him out didn't work, they used the indangered species card. You've already heard about the desert tortis. Well that didn't work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years. Now their desperate. It's come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff. Everything their doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America. Now you may be saying," how sad, but what does this have to do with me?" Well, I'll tell you. They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again. Next, it's Utah's turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.
Then there's the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn't paid them, those cattle do belong to him. Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even exsisted. Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad's signature on it. They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Aucion and sell them. All with our tax money. They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars. See how slick they are?
Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks"
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Whiteboy
Posted 2014-04-09 3:44 PM (#6973533 - in reply to #6972791)
Subject: RE: Rancher VS. Government


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I agree with that, next Utah, then Wyoming, Idaho, Arizona and Montana.  It will not end if we allow them to run rogue.  Same with the President. 
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