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Renew Gold- Low Energy?
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IowaCanChaser
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2017-03-16 8:13 PM (#7333895)
Subject: Renew Gold- Low Energy?



Elite Veteran


Posts: 666
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I took a horse nutrition class/webinar and after deciphering the feed tag on my RG bag I realized it's a very low energy feed. The lower the level of Crude Fiber percentage the higher the energy. So a feed with 5-8% would be considered very high energy, 12-15% is standard and recommended. Renew Gold is 22% making it very low energy.

My barrel horse is often on the lazy side and not ever full of fire, I'm wanting to add something to RG to help with his energy. Any suggestions? He also gets Platinum Performance.

Thoughts? Tia
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rodeomom3
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2017-03-16 8:22 PM (#7333899 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?



Shelter Dog Lover


Posts: 9267
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 I add Bluebonnet oats 
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uno-dos-tres!
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2017-03-16 8:29 PM (#7333900 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?


Expert


Posts: 4648
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Location: Bandera, TX
Heavy Whole Oats 
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Barrelhorsehelp1
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2017-03-16 8:39 PM (#7333901 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?




1001001002525
 Whole oats
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Tdove
Reg. Apr 2015
Posted 2017-03-16 9:00 PM (#7333904 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?



Elite Veteran


Posts: 781
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Location: West Texas
Renew Gold is not low energy. That was likely nutrition 101 and they are summarizing and simplifying way too much. Energy is measured in Mcal/lb, but even that itself is not 100% accurate, on an as fed basis. I would imagine RG would be about the same energy level as Corn if not a hair more, but I am sure Winn will have the info for you on that.

I also agree you might try adding a little oats. 1.5-3 lbs/day. This will add a little starch.

Edited by Tdove 2017-03-16 9:03 PM
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gunner07
Reg. Jun 2011
Posted 2017-03-16 9:01 PM (#7333905 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?



Veteran


Posts: 142
10025
I also add whole oats to the lazy one on RG. It didn't take much though maybe just about a pound. My others get it plain.

Edited by gunner07 2017-03-16 9:03 PM
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IRunOnFaith
Reg. Dec 2009
Posted 2017-03-17 8:27 AM (#7333955 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?



Expert


Posts: 3202
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Location: The best kept secret in TX
I mean if you're looking for a fire breathing dragon ask the vet for a bottle of liquid B-12 for injections.   LOL Just kidding. Kind of.  
But on a serious note, I don't think it's the RG that's giving your horse "Low Energy". Maybe your particular horse just needs a little extra somethin' to get them motivated.

Try the Whole Oats first for a month or two and then maybe check out B-12 crumbles, etc. If you still feel you need more fire for your horse. I tried B-12 injections one time on my old gelding per my vet's suggestion. Never again. LOL I swear that poor horse had actual fire coming out of his nostrils. 
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jewishprincess
Reg. May 2013
Posted 2017-03-17 4:37 PM (#7334066 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?


Veteran


Posts: 209
100100
Location: Heart of Texas
Are you feeding alfalfa with it? (people can disagree but my horses have more pep in their step with it versus just coastal)
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winwillows
Reg. Jul 2013
Posted 2017-03-17 5:29 PM (#7334079 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?


Elite Veteran


Posts: 1081
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Location: Willows, CA
Renew Gold is 1.7 M/cal per pound. Generally higher than conventional feeds that rely on high starches for energy production. This difference is primarily due to the three natural vegetable fat sources contributing to a 15% fat level and has nothing to do with the fiber level. While the formula that you were taught may help in evaluating grain based feed, using this thinking to evaluate "energy of a feed" is very narrow minded in todays nutrition science. If you want your horse to be more on the muscle you can add one pound of oats, or other starch source (do not ever add more than two pounds concentrate per feeding). This will elevate blood sugar levels and give that result. I do not think this will make your horse clock faster, but some people like to think that this jiggy kind of energy results in performance. It is not the energy provided by Renew Gold alone that results in overall improvements, it is what it does to normalize the digestion of the roughage to provide more usable calories from the overall diet. Riders like Sherry Cervi, Ivy Conrado, Dena Kirkpatrick, and a host of others that are hauling rodeo horses are not feeding any other "feed" with Renew Gold and are getting exactly the energy that they feel that they need. Every horse is different, but, for the vast majority of them, no additional "feed" is required if the horses hay is of good quality and their teeth are in proper condition for them to properly chew that hay.
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blazinunicorn
Reg. Mar 2017
Posted 2017-03-20 6:26 PM (#7334533 - in reply to #7334079)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?




0
Location: WA
winwillows - 2017-03-17 3:29 PM

Renew Gold is 1.7 M/cal per pound. Generally higher than conventional feeds that rely on high starches for energy production. This difference is primarily due to the three natural vegetable fat sources contributing to a 15% fat level and has nothing to do with the fiber level. While the formula that you were taught may help in evaluating grain based feed, using this thinking to evaluate "energy of a feed" is very narrow minded in todays nutrition science. If you want your horse to be more on the muscle you can add one pound of oats, or other starch source (do not ever add more than two pounds concentrate per feeding). This will elevate blood sugar levels and give that result. I do not think this will make your horse clock faster, but some people like to think that this jiggy kind of energy results in performance. It is not the energy provided by Renew Gold alone that results in overall improvements, it is what it does to normalize the digestion of the roughage to provide more usable calories from the overall diet. Riders like Sherry Cervi, Ivy Conrado, Dena Kirkpatrick, and a host of others that are hauling rodeo horses are not feeding any other "feed" with Renew Gold and are getting exactly the energy that they feel that they need. Every horse is different, but, for the vast majority of them, no additional "feed" is required if the horses hay is of good quality and their teeth are in proper condition for them to properly chew that hay.

Exactly! It's the quality of these fats that help the horse digest and energy better than high starch grains! I have a really lazy colt who I switched on RG a couple months ago and it has done wonders. The difference I've seen is she can use a lot more energy in her training, but she's never "hot". She's still lazy, and I actually like that in my colts because they don't want to work as long so they will do it right the first time, but she has a lot more muscle and can keep up when I need her to even though she's growing like a bean stock! She also gets grass and alfalfa.

I would try the oats if you really think your horse needs a bit more...If you haven't already, make sure your horse doesn't have body soreness that is contributing to not wanting to work, and that they are conditioned. You wouldn't want someone to get on your back and say run a 10k after you've sat on the couch eating Girl Scout cookies all winter! And make training interesting. Try new drills and go different places to make things fun for them instead of doing the same drills in the same arena all year long. I'm not saying you aren't doing this, but those are all things I thought about with my horse when I switched their feed program.
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CanCan
Reg. May 2004
Posted 2017-03-21 7:18 AM (#7334590 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?


Military family

Keeper of the King Snake


Posts: 6489
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Location: Dubach, LA
 I fed RG for over a year before I got tired of chasing it all over north LA. I sent a tag to MSU Vet Hospital and the vet I was dealing with said it looked like a good fat supplement. 
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streakysox
Reg. Jul 2008
Posted 2017-03-21 8:48 AM (#7334613 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?



Take a Picture


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Here is a very good article from THE HORSE MAGAZINE on feed ingredients and feed labels. It is easy to read and very understandable.

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/10662/how-to-read-a-feed-label

I you have horses this magazine is about the most informative one available. Not expensive either.
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ND3canAddict
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2017-03-21 3:33 PM (#7334747 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?



Straight Shooter


Posts: 5624
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Location: SW North Dakota
Does Manna Pro make a different Renew Gold than Pheonix Company??  I'm struggling with some confusion...  
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winwillows
Reg. Jul 2013
Posted 2017-03-21 4:08 PM (#7334759 - in reply to #7333895)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?


Elite Veteran


Posts: 1081
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Location: Willows, CA
Manna Pro markets Renew Gold through their nation wide distribution system. This takes advantage of warehousing and trucking to get Renew Gold to more locations at a better shipping rate and consistent delivery schedule.
Renew Gold is wholly owned by The Phoenix Company LLC. Manna Pro has no input in manufacturing, formulations or any other aspect of the making of Renew Gold. Nothing has changed with Renew Gold as far as the product itself is concerned. The new bags have an additional Manna Pro logo added since it goes through their distribution system.
There is only one Renew Gold formula at this time, and my company owns and produces that formulation exclusively.
Win
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ND3canAddict
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2017-03-21 4:28 PM (#7334762 - in reply to #7334759)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?



Straight Shooter


Posts: 5624
5000500100
Location: SW North Dakota
winwillows - 2017-03-21 3:08 PM Manna Pro markets Renew Gold through their nation wide distribution system. This takes advantage of warehousing and trucking to get Renew Gold to more locations at a better shipping rate and consistent delivery schedule. Renew Gold is wholly owned by The Phoenix Company LLC. Manna Pro has no input in manufacturing, formulations or any other aspect of the making of Renew Gold. Nothing has changed with Renew Gold as far as the product itself is concerned. The new bags have an additional Manna Pro logo added since it goes through their distribution system. There is only one Renew Gold formula at this time, and my company owns and produces that formulation exclusively. Win

That was very helepful!  I was comparing the websites and the distributors are listed separately, so I began thinking there was a legit Renew Gold and a (cheaper?) MannaPro version.  The bags looked very similar, so I figured it had to be a "mother ship" deal or somone was gonna be POd about patents or copyrights! haha. 

Thanks for explaining.  I'm understanding they are identical Phoenix products, Manna Pro only helps with getting Renew Gold out on a larger scale. 
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GLP
Reg. Oct 2013
Posted 2017-03-21 4:31 PM (#7334763 - in reply to #7334759)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?


Expert


Posts: 3397
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I have a question for you Win. I just got an old ranch horse that has lost 4 teeth, one cracked, the other 3 wore down to the gum. The vet who floated his teeth told us to start feeding him soaked alfalfa cubes for his main feed and to add a senior horse feed to the cubes when soaking. He is a little thin, so would Renew Gold help him gain weight? The vet said she didn't think he would gain much weight due to the lose of 4 teeth. I am sure he has ulcers, too, so should I wait to add the senior feed until I have treated him for ulcers?
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winwillows
Reg. Jul 2013
Posted 2017-03-21 4:49 PM (#7334766 - in reply to #7334763)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?


Elite Veteran


Posts: 1081
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Location: Willows, CA
GLP - 2017-03-21 4:31 PM

I have a question for you Win. I just got an old ranch horse that has lost 4 teeth, one cracked, the other 3 wore down to the gum. The vet who floated his teeth told us to start feeding him soaked alfalfa cubes for his main feed and to add a senior horse feed to the cubes when soaking. He is a little thin, so would Renew Gold help him gain weight? The vet said she didn't think he would gain much weight due to the lose of 4 teeth. I am sure he has ulcers, too, so should I wait to add the senior feed until I have treated him for ulcers?

Poor guy. Lots going on there, but you are headed in the proper direction. Having 4 teeth gone is better than having a sore mouth because of the cracked one. The soaked alfalfa cubes will help, and the RG will support better digestion and provide some much needed calories.

The ulcer deal is a challenge, but you have already helped that issue by addressing his sore mouth. Since a horse only makes saliva when they chew, it is vital that they do that. When the mouth is sore they only chew enough to swallow. This means that they make much less saliva. Saliva is the natural buffer to the constant production of stomach acid. If they don't chew much, they don't make much, and ulcers can become more common due to longer periods of the stomach being empty. Once you have ulcers, you have no choice but to treat. At the same time there is a real benefit to adjusting the management to make their return less likely. Keep the senior feed to less than four pounds per day, and make the soaked alfalfa his main energy source if he will eat it well. I would try to keep some long hay in front of him if he will eat it. You may be surprised how much long hay he will eat once his mouth heals up some. You can call me at 530 934 9300 if you would like to discuss his program.
W
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GLP
Reg. Oct 2013
Posted 2017-03-21 4:58 PM (#7334768 - in reply to #7334766)
Subject: RE: Renew Gold- Low Energy?


Expert


Posts: 3397
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winwillows - 2017-03-21 4:49 PM

GLP - 2017-03-21 4:31 PM

I have a question for you Win. I just got an old ranch horse that has lost 4 teeth, one cracked, the other 3 wore down to the gum. The vet who floated his teeth told us to start feeding him soaked alfalfa cubes for his main feed and to add a senior horse feed to the cubes when soaking. He is a little thin, so would Renew Gold help him gain weight? The vet said she didn't think he would gain much weight due to the lose of 4 teeth. I am sure he has ulcers, too, so should I wait to add the senior feed until I have treated him for ulcers?

Poor guy. Lots going on there, but you are headed in the proper direction. Having 4 teeth gone is better than having a sore mouth because of the cracked one. The soaked alfalfa cubes will help, and the RG will support better digestion and provide some much needed calories.

The ulcer deal is a challenge, but you have already helped that issue by addressing his sore mouth. Since a horse only makes saliva when they chew, it is vital that they do that. When the mouth is sore they only chew enough to swallow. This means that they make much less saliva. Saliva is the natural buffer to the constant production of stomach acid. If they don't chew much, they don't make much, and ulcers can become more common due to longer periods of the stomach being empty. Once you have ulcers, you have no choice but to treat. At the same time there is a real benefit to adjusting the management to make their return less likely. Keep the senior feed to less than four pounds per day, and make the soaked alfalfa his main energy source if he will eat it well. I would try to keep some long hay in front of him if he will eat it. You may be surprised how much long hay he will eat once his mouth heals up some. You can call me at 530 934 9300 if you would like to discuss his program.
W

Thank you, I will call tomorrow, I appreciate it. He is an old warrier, I think. He came from the brush country and has a big old scar on his shoulder. He still is throwing a little attitude, which I like. You know, like the old guys on Grumpy Old Men movies kind of attitude.
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