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!! Stallion Owners !!!
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BLM
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2017-04-18 2:07 PM (#7340442 - in reply to #7340440)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!





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Kay-DRacing. - 2017-04-18 2:02 PM

BLM - 2017-04-18 1:59 PM
Kay-DRacing. - 2017-04-18 11:51 AM Asking for a friend as she just had to bury a colt due to Neonatal Isoerythrolysis. The colt passed away on Easter Sunday and it was just a devastating loss as he appeared very healthy and lively the night before he passed at just 5 days old



Is it typical for stallion owners to know the blood type of your stud? Should mare owners be aware of what blood type their mare carries?



If a foal inherits a blood type or components from his sire that don't match the mare's, and if these reach her bloodstream, her immune system considers the foal's red blood cells "foreign." In such a case she creates antibodies against them. Or, if there's abnormal blood transfer between dam and fetus (such as placental hemorrhage during pregnancy), the mare is exposed to the foal's red blood cell antigens, triggering her immune system to attack and destroy them and priming her system to release targeted antibodies in the colostrum.
 I just dealt with this issue with my Mulberry Fame foal. I insisted he be tested, or he may be dead, too. Strangely,no vet has ever suggested testing. You need to blood test the mare 2 weeks prior to foaling. If she is positive, the foals need to be held off of the mare a minimum of 48 hours. Until all the cokostrum is gine. The foal can be supplemented with plasma or tested colostrum.The problem is, horses have way too many blood types, so blood testing the studs would be ineffective. So very for your friends loss!

Oh wow. I did not know that about the many blood types. Glad you were able to save your foal!! 

 Well we had one 30 years ago, (which we saved) so I knew about it. I grew up on a breeding ranch, and have raised a lot of foals, but have only had 2. I am a little miffed that veterinarians don't seem to reccomend this simple test. I think it is fairly uncommon, but common enough, i believe a test is warranted. It happens in 10% of all mule births, I guess.
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2017-04-18 2:28 PM (#7340447 - in reply to #7340392)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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So sad to hear this about your friends baby, I lost my perfect baby about 20 years ago, she was such a healthy beautiful filly the first 3 days of her life and then she was gone, never bred again..
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flyingcolors
Reg. Aug 2005
Posted 2017-04-18 2:51 PM (#7340448 - in reply to #7340392)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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I worked in KY and we tested every mare. We also did a test with the foal's blood and the mare's milk right after she foaled.  This was to be safe.  
I was lucky and tested my mare. She was a carrier. Over the years and 9 foals; I had to bottle 3 foals.  I did loose one.  
I designed and made a cover for the mare to wear.  She was able to foal with it, if I wasn't there. It covered the udder and protected it from the foal.  It was also easy for me to milk out the mare.  I was able to bottle and freeze a good deal of colostrum and milk. 

Unfortunately I have seen this alot.  My mare was a carrier; I tested her blood against my stallion's blood.  They reacted.  (Figures!) I bred her to 9 different stallions.  The only way I knew if I was going to be bottle feeding was to test the mare's blood against the stallion's.  This gets a little hard with shipped semen. 



 
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ndcowgirl
Reg. Mar 2007
Posted 2017-04-18 3:13 PM (#7340451 - in reply to #7340392)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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Sounds similar to what happens in people, only the antibiodies can cross the placental barrier in women. My blood type is O negative. All women are blood typed during their prenatal care and if they have a negative blood type you get a rhogram shot at 28 weeks (unless you know for a fact the fathers blood type is negative) and within 72 hours of birth if the baby has positive blood. Rhogram prevents a women of producing antibiodies in case of baby and mom's blood mixing. If you didn't have the rhogram shot and the mom was exposed to positive type blood she would develop antibiodies and they would attack any embryos with positive blood.
Not positive for horses but I'm guessing it's the negative type mare bred to a positive stallion that would cause this.
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flyingcolors
Reg. Aug 2005
Posted 2017-04-18 3:16 PM (#7340455 - in reply to #7340451)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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ndcowgirl - 2017-04-18 3:13 PM Sounds similar to what happens in people, only the antibiodies can cross the placental barrier in women. My blood type is O negative. All women are blood typed during their prenatal care and if they have a negative blood type you get a rhogram shot at 28 weeks (unless you know for a fact the fathers blood type is negative) and within 72 hours of birth if the baby has positive blood. Rhogram prevents a women of producing antibiodies in case of baby and mom's blood mixing. If you didn't have the rhogram shot and the mom was exposed to positive type blood she would develop antibiodies and they would attack any embryos with positive blood. Not positive for horses but I'm guessing it's the negative type mare bred to a positive stallion that would cause this.

It is the same thing.  The "RH" factor problem.  My mom had it.  
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Kay-DRacing.
Reg. Jun 2009
Posted 2017-04-18 4:38 PM (#7340483 - in reply to #7340392)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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Can the test produce any false negatives? Or is the blood test performed fairly accurate?
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Kay-DRacing.
Reg. Jun 2009
Posted 2017-04-18 4:41 PM (#7340484 - in reply to #7340451)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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ndcowgirl - 2017-04-18 3:13 PM Sounds similar to what happens in people, only the antibiodies can cross the placental barrier in women. My blood type is O negative. All women are blood typed during their prenatal care and if they have a negative blood type you get a rhogram shot at 28 weeks (unless you know for a fact the fathers blood type is negative) and within 72 hours of birth if the baby has positive blood. Rhogram prevents a women of producing antibiodies in case of baby and mom's blood mixing. If you didn't have the rhogram shot and the mom was exposed to positive type blood she would develop antibiodies and they would attack any embryos with positive blood. Not positive for horses but I'm guessing it's the negative type mare bred to a positive stallion that would cause this.

WOW...That is some new news to me! My blood type is also O-negative. I had no idea women had to be given a shot for that during pregnancy. I will have to ask my mom since she is O-Neg too. 
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ndcowgirl
Reg. Mar 2007
Posted 2017-04-18 5:08 PM (#7340487 - in reply to #7340484)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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Kay-DRacing. - 2017-04-18 4:41 PM

ndcowgirl - 2017-04-18 3:13 PM Sounds similar to what happens in people, only the antibiodies can cross the placental barrier in women. My blood type is O negative. All women are blood typed during their prenatal care and if they have a negative blood type you get a rhogram shot at 28 weeks (unless you know for a fact the fathers blood type is negative) and within 72 hours of birth if the baby has positive blood. Rhogram prevents a women of producing antibiodies in case of baby and mom's blood mixing. If you didn't have the rhogram shot and the mom was exposed to positive type blood she would develop antibiodies and they would attack any embryos with positive blood. Not positive for horses but I'm guessing it's the negative type mare bred to a positive stallion that would cause this.

WOW...That is some new news to me! My blood type is also O-negative. I had no idea women had to be given a shot for that during pregnancy. I will have to ask my mom since she is O-Neg too. 

You have to get one if you don't know the fathers blood type or if the father is rh positive. I've had around 14. Seven kids and 7/7 with O positive blood.
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ndcowgirl
Reg. Mar 2007
Posted 2017-04-18 5:15 PM (#7340489 - in reply to #7340483)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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Kay-DRacing. - 2017-04-18 4:38 PM

Can the test produce any false negatives? Or is the blood test performed fairly accurate?

http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/rh-factor/basics/definit...
This is a good explanation of RH factor for people. P
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ndcowgirl
Reg. Mar 2007
Posted 2017-04-18 5:24 PM (#7340492 - in reply to #7340392)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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I copied this from a vet website

Mares can become sensitized (immunologically stimulated) to the offending foreign RBC antigens of the sire or foal if an event occurs which exposes the mare to these antigens. These events include exposure to offending RBC antigens via blood leakage through the placenta during pregnancy or delivery, previous blood transfusions, or the administration of vaccines containing equine tissue products. The exact mechanism of sensitization at delivery is unclear at this time[5]. With pregnancy-related sensitization, the mare is sensitized to the stallion’s RBC antigens that differ from her own RBC antigens. Once the mare has been exposed to these antigens, she will respond immunologically by producing an alloantibody (usually IgM antibodies initially, then IgG antibodies). Subsequent immunologic memory can persist for many years. This sensitization after initial exposure (usually after the first pregnancy) is usually minimal. However, if repeated exposure to the same offending RBC antigens occurs with subsequent pregnancies, then alloantibody production will increase considerably
Once the mare has become sensitized to specific RBC antigen(s), subsequent foals are at risk for development for NI if they are sired by the same stallion. Adverse reactions can occur with one or more antigen types simultaneously. Because of the type of placentation In horses, the alloantibodies responsible for NI do not cross the placenta, but are secreted into the colostrum. Foals will develop to term and be born without any side effects from the mare’s immunologic response to these offending antigens. When the young foal ingests its mare’s colostrum, the colostral antibodies will be absorbed into the circulation of the foal during the first few hours after birth until "gut closure" occurs and macromolecules cannot be directly absorbed into the blood from the intestinal tract. Absorption of maternal colostral antibodies is important for the foal’s immune system function (passive transfer); however, harmful antibodies against the foal’s erythrocyte antigens also are absorbed. These harmful alloantibodies bind to offending antigen(s) on the foal’s RBCs, causing hemagglutination and extravascular or intravascular hemolysis. The higher the mare’s antibody titer to the offending RBC antigen at parturition, the higher the risk will be for development of NI.
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flyingcolors
Reg. Aug 2005
Posted 2017-04-19 1:43 PM (#7340667 - in reply to #7340392)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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I had one vet tell me that I was worrying about nothing.  My mare had 2 foals that tested positive.  (2 different stallions) I called to have the blood test done on a new foal and he did not think I needed to test this one because it was a different stallion.  We did the test and the foal was positive.  I bottle fed the foal for 36 hours. At that point they said he was in the clear and he could nurse. He died 2 days later in the clinic. Liver failure and hemorrhaging.  I waited 48-50 hours with the last one. He is now 10 yr old.
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Chandler's Mom
Reg. Jan 2015
Posted 2017-04-19 6:24 PM (#7340760 - in reply to #7340392)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!


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Kay-DRacing. - 2017-04-18 11:51 AM

Asking for a friend as she just had to bury a colt due to Neonatal Isoerythrolysis. The colt passed away on Easter Sunday and it was just a devastating loss as he appeared very healthy and lively the night before he passed at just 5 days old

Is it typical for stallion owners to know the blood type of your stud? Should mare owners be aware of what blood type their mare carries?

If a foal inherits a blood type or components from his sire that don't match the mare's, and if these reach her bloodstream, her immune system considers the foal's red blood cells "foreign." In such a case she creates antibodies against them. Or, if there's abnormal blood transfer between dam and fetus (such as placental hemorrhage during pregnancy), the mare is exposed to the foal's red blood cell antigens, triggering her immune system to attack and destroy them and priming her system to release targeted antibodies in the colostrum.

What exactly do you as a mare owner need to ask or know?? We are tentatively thinking of breeding Chandler's mare, and this just added one more thing I have no idea about. . . .

After reading this whole post I'm scared to death to think I have sense enough to have a baby.

Edited by Chandler's Mom 2017-04-19 6:30 PM
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oija
Reg. Feb 2012
Posted 2017-04-20 11:17 AM (#7340898 - in reply to #7340392)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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Actually the first foal is almost always okay. It is BECAUSE of the first foal that the mare develops the antibodies discussed and has the immune response with all subsequent foals. It is a sad deal but fairly rare which is I am sure why very few people test for it.
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Kay-DRacing.
Reg. Jun 2009
Posted 2017-04-20 11:40 AM (#7340909 - in reply to #7340898)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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oija - 2017-04-20 11:17 AM Actually the first foal is almost always okay. It is BECAUSE of the first foal that the mare develops the antibodies discussed and has the immune response with all subsequent foals. It is a sad deal but fairly rare which is I am sure why very few people test for it.

That is interesting and good to know. Thanks! 
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Kay-DRacing.
Reg. Jun 2009
Posted 2017-04-20 11:47 AM (#7340911 - in reply to #7340667)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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flyingcolors - 2017-04-19 1:43 PM I had one vet tell me that I was worrying about nothing.  My mare had 2 foals that tested positive.  (2 different stallions) I called to have the blood test done on a new foal and he did not think I needed to test this one because it was a different stallion.  We did the test and the foal was positive.  I bottle fed the foal for 36 hours. At that point they said he was in the clear and he could nurse. He died 2 days later in the clinic. Liver failure and hemorrhaging.  I waited 48-50 hours with the last one. He is now 10 yr old.

Wow, how sad! Thank goodness you still had the test done. How frustrating it would be to have a vet tell you not to worry when you spend so much money and time trying to get that baby you want and then something like that happens.Now that she has tested positive on 2 foals, will she test positive every pregnancy?  
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teehaha
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2017-04-20 5:20 PM (#7341000 - in reply to #7340439)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!


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BLM - 2017-04-18 12:59 PM
Kay-DRacing. - 2017-04-18 11:51 AMAsking for a friend as she just had to bury a colt due to Neonatal Isoerythrolysis. The colt passed away on Easter Sunday and it was just a devastating loss as he appeared very healthy and lively the night before he passed at just 5 days old



Is it typical for stallion owners to know the blood type of your stud? Should mare owners be aware of what blood type their mare carries?



If a foal inherits a blood type or components from his sire that don't match the mare's, and if these reach her bloodstream, her immune system considers the foal's red blood cells "foreign." In such a case she creates antibodies against them. Or, if there's abnormal blood transfer between dam and fetus (such as placental hemorrhage during pregnancy), the mare is exposed to the foal's red blood cell antigens, triggering her immune system to attack and destroy them and priming her system to release targeted antibodies in the colostrum.
 I just dealt with this issue with my Mulberry Fame foal. I insisted he be tested, or he may be dead, too. Strangely,no vet has ever suggested testing. You need to blood test the mare 2 weeks prior to foaling. If she is positive, the foals need to be held off of the mare a minimum of 48 hours. Until all the colostrum is gone. The foal can be supplemented with plasma or tested colostrum.The problem is, horses have way too many blood types, so blood testing the studs would be ineffective. So very sorry for your friends loss!

This happened to us.  Fortunately we had taken the mare to CSU to foal because of her age.  They did the blood test, held the filly off the mare for 48 hours and she grew up big and strong because of their awareness.   
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flyingcolors
Reg. Aug 2005
Posted 2017-04-21 11:38 AM (#7341150 - in reply to #7340911)
Subject: RE: !! Stallion Owners !!!



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Kay-DRacing. - 2017-04-20 11:47 AM
flyingcolors - 2017-04-19 1:43 PM I had one vet tell me that I was worrying about nothing.  My mare had 2 foals that tested positive.  (2 different stallions) I called to have the blood test done on a new foal and he did not think I needed to test this one because it was a different stallion.  We did the test and the foal was positive.  I bottle fed the foal for 36 hours. At that point they said he was in the clear and he could nurse. He died 2 days later in the clinic. Liver failure and hemorrhaging.  I waited 48-50 hours with the last one. He is now 10 yr old.
Wow, how sad! Thank goodness you still had the test done. How frustrating it would be to have a vet tell you not to worry when you spend so much money and time trying to get that baby you want and then something like that happens.Now that she has tested positive on 2 foals, will she test positive every pregnancy?  

Out of the 9 foals she had:
1st  ok
2nd  ok
3rd  positive
4th  ok
5th  ok
6th  ok
7th  positive and died
8th  ok
9th  positive -This one I knew was going to be.  Cross tested the blood of mare and stud. But this was her last foal and my stud and a cross I had waited for.
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