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Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2017-04-20 10:13 AM (#7340876 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: UPDATE:Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?


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Thank you all. She goes to the vet next week; different vet for a full exam, x-rays, etc...whatever they/we think needs to be done. I owe that much to her. I'll try to update.

Edited by RedHead84 2017-05-01 10:27 AM
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turnnburnkota
Reg. Jan 2009
Posted 2017-04-20 10:14 AM (#7340877 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?



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I'd get X-Rays... and probably a lameness vet. I also agree it could be heel pain. Just went through this with my horse. She would have on and off lameness, sometimes BAD. Always much worse turning. X-Rayed fine. Hoof tested sore in her heels. Vet gave some shoeing suggestions and after the last 2 cycles of shoes, she's pretty sound.
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mgander
Reg. Dec 2016
Posted 2017-04-20 10:16 AM (#7340879 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?


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My sister's horse acts in a similar manner. Pointed toe, sore some days and not the other, looks to be in the shoulder area rather than the hoof. She hasn't got x-rays yet (no matter how much I nag her), but a highly regarded farrier for our area says she has chronic founder and has sunken with no rotation.

I was relayed this second hand so I can't really elaborate too much.

The signs were, her hoof lines weren't a consistent ring the whole way around. They would be a ring and then dropped down towards the ground closer to her heel. Also, when he picked up the opposite leg, the pressure created a dimpled ring above the hoof on the leg with all the weight. It made her look like it was sinking in to her hoof, if that makes sense.
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epoh
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2017-04-20 11:32 AM (#7340905 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?



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I had one similiar to that. Ended up being a shoulder issue. It isn't a common place to look for injury.
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lazytdickens
Reg. Jul 2007
Posted 2017-04-20 11:49 AM (#7340912 - in reply to #7340852)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?



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Why, when I reply to a comment, it does it not show up under that comment?
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2017-04-20 11:59 AM (#7340915 - in reply to #7340912)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?


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lazytdickens - 2017-04-20 11:49 AM

Why, when I reply to a comment, it does it not show up under that comment?

Use the "quote" button instead of the "reply" button. It took me a while to figure it out too. :)
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lazytdickens
Reg. Jul 2007
Posted 2017-04-20 2:23 PM (#7340961 - in reply to #7340915)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?



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RedHead84 - 2017-04-20 11:59 AM

lazytdickens - 2017-04-20 11:49 AM

Why, when I reply to a comment, it does it not show up under that comment?

Use the "quote" button instead of the "reply" button. It took me a while to figure it out too. :)

Thank you.
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Love2runbarrels
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2017-04-20 4:12 PM (#7340986 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?


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I have a mare that was lame only on a circle to the left, she ended up having a torn medial collateral ligament in her right front hoof, we diagnosed with ultrasound and were lucky to see it, you usually have to do an MRI. She had a year off, shockwave therapy and special shoe and she is healed up no problem now. This injury is commonly misdiagnosed (lumped in) with Navicular but it is more common than people realize. My vet used a Krosscheck device that straps on their foot and you can wedge up the inside or the outside and tell where they are painful. When we wedged up the medial (inside) side of her right front she was super uncomfortable so we knew where to look. This was after months of corrective shoeing, coffin bone injections etc that helped but never completely took away the lameness in a circle. Definitely not saying this is what is wrong with your horse but something to discuss with the vet when you are there!!
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Serenity06
Reg. Feb 2011
Posted 2017-04-20 4:29 PM (#7340991 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?



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I'm right there with ya. My mare has been fighting this off and on lameness since September 2015. She was stiff to the left before she went lame and had to of been sore when she won me some checks but she never refused to do what I asked and always tried her heart out for me.

When she finally came up sore it took going through 4 vets and 2 chiros to get me some answers. She was diagnosed with kissing spine and vet said she had a lot of inflammation around the coffin joint. Thought we had her sound and she went lame again. This time when we nerve blocked the front left she also had a slight limp on the front right. Injected both navicular bursas and she was great for 30-60 days. Off and on lame ever since. I am currently at the vet again to get more x-rays and another lameness exam.
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2017-04-21 8:14 AM (#7341079 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?


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So, the more I think about this (which is all the time because we're crazy horse people) I think the pain/problem lies in her heel. I did leave out a part to her story, not thinking ...when I purchased her she was shod with New Balance front shoes that were (per my farrier) a size TOO SMALL and she also had on wedges. So, with those shoes being too small that would definitely put pressure on the heel and he made the comment that he was surprised she wasn't already lame. So we upped the size of her shoe and just went to pads, not wedges. I am wondering if we should have kept the wedges? When I asked the sellers why she had on wedges, the answer was "we do that with everything"...not "because she needs them".

Don't worry I am still going to the vet for a full exam but I thinking figuring out how she needs shod might do the trick.
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Serenity06
Reg. Feb 2011
Posted 2017-04-21 8:40 AM (#7341088 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?



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My mare's x-rays from yesterday revealed navicular changes to the front left and coffin bone changes in the front right. She also has a bone spur starting to form on the left stifle and flexed very lame on it, she flexed sore on the right stifle as well but not nearly as bad as the left. Vet wants her in a 3in wedge and her break over moved back with natural balance shoes again. 3 weeks after that he wants to reevaluate and inject in the coffin joints if still needed and inject her stifles.

I hope you get better news!
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2017-04-21 9:43 AM (#7341112 - in reply to #7341088)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?


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Serenity06 - 2017-04-21 8:40 AM

My mare's x-rays from yesterday revealed navicular changes to the front left and coffin bone changes in the front right. She also has a bone spur starting to form on the left stifle and flexed very lame on it, she flexed sore on the right stifle as well but not nearly as bad as the left. Vet wants her in a 3in wedge and her break over moved back with natural balance shoes again. 3 weeks after that he wants to reevaluate and inject in the coffin joints if still needed and inject her stifles.

I hope you get better news!

Bummer. Sorry you didn't get better news but sounds like you have an action plan!
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Serenity06
Reg. Feb 2011
Posted 2017-04-21 10:29 AM (#7341127 - in reply to #7341112)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?



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RedHead84 - 2017-04-21 8:43 AM

Serenity06 - 2017-04-21 8:40 AM

My mare's x-rays from yesterday revealed navicular changes to the front left and coffin bone changes in the front right. She also has a bone spur starting to form on the left stifle and flexed very lame on it, she flexed sore on the right stifle as well but not nearly as bad as the left. Vet wants her in a 3in wedge and her break over moved back with natural balance shoes again. 3 weeks after that he wants to reevaluate and inject in the coffin joints if still needed and inject her stifles.

I hope you get better news!

Bummer. Sorry you didn't get better news but sounds like you have an action plan!

It's a huge relief to have some answers but it sure is disheartening all at the same time. The vet is pretty hopeful that we have caught everything early enough that we may be able to stop the progression in her feet.
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brlraceaddict
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2017-04-21 11:37 AM (#7341149 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?



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RedHead84 - 2017-04-19 12:59 PM Do not tear me apart on this because I have had the vet out to do a lameness and flexion test and she passed. With that being said...I have a 13 year old mare who SOMETIMES is a head bobber going in circles to the right (the tighter the circle, the worse the bob; hardly any bob in a straight line) showing slight lameness on the right front and also SOMETIMES stands with her right toe pointed forward. 9/10 she rides out of it, meaning she'll do it right from the start and get better as she "loosens up". She does have little to no heel, due to crappy farrier work before I bought her and we do have pads on her, but farrier cannot find any other foot related issues. She lays down, gets up, runs, plays, is not sour, does not act like she's in pain, has never refused to do what I ask...I ran her last weekend without any issues. I just have this "mystery lameness" that appears that drives me nutso! Any insight would be appreciated!

I hope you get some answers at the vet.  When mine did this it was from a strained suspensory tendon - I rehabbed her for almost a year.  Brought her back, ran her once and she didn't feel right.  Another trip to the vet and she was diagnosed with navicular - in her case it was actually the navicular bone that was detiorating.  She's raised two nice foals and is living out her days in my pasture.  I hope you get answers - good luck. 
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2017-05-01 10:26 AM (#7342808 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?


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We went to the vet. First thing, positive on heel with hoof tester, grade 3 lame on flexion. This is all the right front which is where we thought the issue was. So, did a nerve block in foot, results 90% better, so hoof seems to be the issue. Moved onto x-rays...they did not show anything scary (navicular bone was fine). Thank goodness. But she does have some jacked up front feet...her palmar angle was a zero where it would normally be 3-8 degrees, she has no sole, she had medial and lateral imbalances and crushed/no heel which was the obvious. Vet recommends corrective shoeing. Makes sense. So we leveled her imbalances, increased her palmar angle to 3 degrees with wedge pads which should also help the heel pressure point issue. He says all these issues combined could have caused some strain on her tendons (the reason for the flexion lameness) but he isn't concerned at this point.

Looking back I feel kinda dumb that we just had her shod wrong...but live and learn. I gave her several days off after the shoeing and she is moving SO MUCH BETTER. I've been doing liniment and standing wraps at night.

Edited by RedHead84 2017-05-01 10:45 AM
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Serenity06
Reg. Feb 2011
Posted 2017-05-01 3:48 PM (#7342892 - in reply to #7342808)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?



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RedHead84 - 2017-05-01 9:26 AM

We went to the vet. First thing, positive on heel with hoof tester, grade 3 lame on flexion. This is all the right front which is where we thought the issue was. So, did a nerve block in foot, results 90% better, so hoof seems to be the issue. Moved onto x-rays...they did not show anything scary (navicular bone was fine). Thank goodness. But she does have some jacked up front feet...her palmar angle was a zero where it would normally be 3-8 degrees, she has no sole, she had medial and lateral imbalances and crushed/no heel which was the obvious. Vet recommends corrective shoeing. Makes sense. So we leveled her imbalances, increased her palmar angle to 3 degrees with wedge pads which should also help the heel pressure point issue. He says all these issues combined could have caused some strain on her tendons (the reason for the flexion lameness) but he isn't concerned at this point.

Looking back I feel kinda dumb that we just had her shod wrong...but live and learn. I gave her several days off after the shoeing and she is moving SO MUCH BETTER. I've been doing liniment and standing wraps at night.

I'm glad you recieved some answers! Hopefully she bounces back quick!

Sidenote: Had the last 3 vets that looked at my mare and her x-rays told me her 0 palmer angle needed fixed it's possible we could have prevented the navicular bone changes and definitely would have prevented the coffin bone changes. Stifles would still be an issue though. Live and learn.
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jake16
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2017-05-01 7:00 PM (#7342924 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?


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Thanks for the update!Now you will have baseline x-rays to continue with so that was money well spent.Glad to hear she's moving better:)
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2017-05-01 7:17 PM (#7342925 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?



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Glad you went to a vet that knew what he/she needed to do, its just best to go to a vet that had the tools to work with, sounds like he/she got you on the right track to having a sound horse.  
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tmhorses
Reg. Aug 2016
Posted 2017-05-01 10:22 PM (#7342948 - in reply to #7340697)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?


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I hate to be the bearer of bad news however the symptoms of the horse described in the original post indicates PSSM1. Horses act like founder, intermittent soundess then sore again. This is PSSM1. It's been around a LONG time but not really recognized. It is prevalent in heavy muscled horses especially those from the Driftwood bloodline. Although Drifts Chip was never tested LOTS of his offspring are affected. And LOTS of rodeo horses carry the Driftwood lines.

Because of this we made the expensive decision to have not only our stallions tested but EVERY breeding mare on the place has been tested. Knock on wood every AQHA and APHA horse we own is 5 panel Negative/Negative. It is the ONLY way we can see to eradicate these terrible diseases.

Best of luck to all of you. Keep turning.
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2017-05-02 8:08 AM (#7342985 - in reply to #7342892)
Subject: RE: Front leg "mystery" lameness...help?


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Serenity06 - 2017-05-01 3:48 PM

RedHead84 - 2017-05-01 9:26 AM

We went to the vet. First thing, positive on heel with hoof tester, grade 3 lame on flexion. This is all the right front which is where we thought the issue was. So, did a nerve block in foot, results 90% better, so hoof seems to be the issue. Moved onto x-rays...they did not show anything scary (navicular bone was fine). Thank goodness. But she does have some jacked up front feet...her palmar angle was a zero where it would normally be 3-8 degrees, she has no sole, she had medial and lateral imbalances and crushed/no heel which was the obvious. Vet recommends corrective shoeing. Makes sense. So we leveled her imbalances, increased her palmar angle to 3 degrees with wedge pads which should also help the heel pressure point issue. He says all these issues combined could have caused some strain on her tendons (the reason for the flexion lameness) but he isn't concerned at this point.

Looking back I feel kinda dumb that we just had her shod wrong...but live and learn. I gave her several days off after the shoeing and she is moving SO MUCH BETTER. I've been doing liniment and standing wraps at night.

I'm glad you recieved some answers! Hopefully she bounces back quick!

Sidenote: Had the last 3 vets that looked at my mare and her x-rays told me her 0 palmer angle needed fixed it's possible we could have prevented the navicular bone changes and definitely would have prevented the coffin bone changes. Stifles would still be an issue though. Live and learn.

That's really frustrating that 3 vets didn't mention the palmar angle! My vet was pretty adamant had we not caught and corrected it now...she'd gone navicular over time. My gut hasn't let me down too many times and it sure didn't this time.
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