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PSSM2 symptoms/treatments
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Wild1
Reg. Oct 2008
Posted 2018-05-06 10:23 PM (#7395343)
Subject: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments


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One of my mares has got me questioning if she's a candidate. I know it takes a hair test to find out, but I wanted to know anyone that has experience with this on here could give me some of their thoughts. Also, does this need to be treated with medication if tests positive?
Muscle spasms after I ran in the flank area, could hardly walk in the hind end..until I gave her banamine. The spasms didn't occur though until a GOOD few hours after the barrel race. She did this once last Dec. and also once last summer...my vet did'nt think pssm when he did an overall exam last Dec. which was about a week after the occurance.
Curious if diet change and changed from feeding what to what if that's helped with this issue?

Thank you in advance!
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Buckles
Reg. Feb 2010
Posted 2018-05-07 6:28 AM (#7395351 - in reply to #7395343)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments


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I have 4 horses that tested positive with the new hair test. All were having symptoms, one to the point we had retired him. After changing to a high protein diet (I use triple crown 30 and add tri amino. Also added chia seeds for omega 3) I am back to riding the one we had retired. He was having spasms only when he was stressed, not related to exercising him. My husband's horse was having the mildest symptoms, we were having a hard time keeping any topline and weight on him and he was occasionally lame for no reason one day and then perfectly fine the next. Haven't had a problem with him since putting him on the high protein diet last year except for now hes hard to keep weight off! I only have one I cannot get his back pain under control, but he also has feet issues from poor conformation which has been an ongoing struggle.
I have some methacarbomal on hand, but I haven't used it in a year and a half. I don't do all the extras that are suggested on the pssm group on facebook anymore like the magnesium and vit e. I saw no difference in my horses on it and with 4 on it the price to feed them was getting ridiculous.
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Wild1
Reg. Oct 2008
Posted 2018-05-07 10:11 PM (#7395504 - in reply to #7395351)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments


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Buckles - 2018-05-07 6:28 AM

I have 4 horses that tested positive with the new hair test. All were having symptoms, one to the point we had retired him. After changing to a high protein diet (I use triple crown 30 and add tri amino. Also added chia seeds for omega 3) I am back to riding the one we had retired. He was having spasms only when he was stressed, not related to exercising him. My husband's horse was having the mildest symptoms, we were having a hard time keeping any topline and weight on him and he was occasionally lame for no reason one day and then perfectly fine the next. Haven't had a problem with him since putting him on the high protein diet last year except for now hes hard to keep weight off! I only have one I cannot get his back pain under control, but he also has feet issues from poor conformation which has been an ongoing struggle.
I have some methacarbomal on hand, but I haven't used it in a year and a half. I don't do all the extras that are suggested on the pssm group on facebook anymore like the magnesium and vit e. I saw no difference in my horses on it and with 4 on it the price to feed them was getting ridiculous.

Where or what feed has Tri Amino? I never heard of this sorry, I also would like to know the forum on the FB regarding this? I was told not to feed any sugary type grains...I haven't had any testing done yet so this really helps with your reply. Thank you
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Whinny19
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2018-05-08 10:52 AM (#7395567 - in reply to #7395343)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments



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Location: Montana
This is a copy/paste of a "concise" summary of the two PSSM definitions and symptoms that I wrote on one of the PSSM Facebook groups. I'll attach links to a couple of the pages as well. Hopefully it helps! 

PSSM1: This causes an abnormal accumulation of sugars in muscles. Positive horses often respond well to a high fat, low sugar/starch diet and a consistent exercise program.

PSSM2: This essentially causes muscle wasting. Muscles have a hard time repairing from exercise and any kind of trauma. The high fat, low sugar/starch diet may still be of some benefit, but isn't as critical as it is to the PSSM1 horse. What is really important is providing adequate protein in the diet. This can be difficult, as a number of PSSM2 horses appear to be sensitive to alfalfa and/or soy (which are the easiest and most common high protein feeds to use). Others aren't bothered by alfalfa or soy at all. Regular exercise might be more detrimental than helpful in some of these cases, as rest periods that allow the damaged muscles a chance to heal are critical.

Adequate turn out space is extremely beneficial to both types; they typically do not do well when confined to stalls.

Symptoms are very similar in both types of PSSM (and EPM, as well as Lyme disease and magnesium deficiency); but run the gamut between physical and behavioral issues.

Physical symptoms include tying up, general muscle pain, stiff, tight muscles, progressive muscle atrophy, muscle "divots" or atrophy points, sensitivity to cold weather, sensitivity to touch (brushing, cinching up, etc), difficulty holding the feet up for farrier work, rough and uncoordinated movement, profuse sweating, reluctance to move, difficulty backing, "mystery" lamenesses that usually can't be specifically identified on lameness exams.

It's difficult to describe the behavioral symptoms, because it's literally anything a horse will do to avoid a painful or uncomfortable situation. In some horses, this can manifest as aggressive behavior like kicking, striking, and biting. In others, dangerous behaviors like bucking, rearing, falling over backwards, or running away with riders. In others it might be more subtle, just a general grumpy and unwilling attitude. Quite a few are described as spooky and flighty, with unpredictable and explosive outbursts.
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Whinny19
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2018-05-08 10:58 AM (#7395568 - in reply to #7395343)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments



Brains Behind the Operation...


Posts: 4465
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Location: Montana
PSSM Forum: https://m.facebook.com/groups/202978353056065

Managing PSSM, RER, and other muscle disease: https://m.facebook.com/groups/833944333446431
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Whinny19
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2018-05-08 11:20 AM (#7395573 - in reply to #7395343)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments



Brains Behind the Operation...


Posts: 4465
200020001001001001002525
Location: Montana
Some horses do respond really well to diet changes, others don't. Typical feed additions to try are salt (actually adding 1-2 Tbsp of loose salt to the feed each day on top of providing free choice), magnesium, fat, Vit E, and in the case of Type 2 various protein supplements (alfalfa pellets, whey powder, Tri Aminos, SuperSport, Triple Crown 30%, dried peas, etc). A lot of people also test out various anti-inflammatory supplements. As you can tell, there's a lot of trial and error testing to find which recipe might work best for your particular horse.

My mom currently has a type 2 + RER. Beneficial additions to her diet have been salt, magnesium, and moderate fat supplementation (1/4 to 1/2 cup day). She did well on straight alfalfa for the first 5-6 years of her life, but then became sensitive to it (even a small handful now starts muscle tremors and lameness that takes a week or two to go away). Bermuda grass hay is her primary forage. Soy products don't seem to bother her for protein sources.

I don't think most people medicate daily, unless it's something like Equioxx or ulcer meds. It is good to have something for pain management when they have a tie up episode. Robaxin, banamine, bute, dantrolene, and various sedatives like ace, dormosedan, or rompun are usually people's go-to's. As with the feeding program, the medication protocol for episodes will vary from horse to horse.
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GLP
Reg. Oct 2013
Posted 2018-05-08 1:19 PM (#7395611 - in reply to #7395567)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments


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Whinny19 - 2018-05-08 10:52 AM

This is a copy/paste of a "concise" summary of the two PSSM definitions and symptoms that I wrote on one of the PSSM Facebook groups. I'll attach links to a couple of the pages as well. Hopefully it helps! 

PSSM1: This causes an abnormal accumulation of sugars in muscles. Positive horses often respond well to a high fat, low sugar/starch diet and a consistent exercise program.

PSSM2: This essentially causes muscle wasting. Muscles have a hard time repairing from exercise and any kind of trauma. The high fat, low sugar/starch diet may still be of some benefit, but isn't as critical as it is to the PSSM1 horse. What is really important is providing adequate protein in the diet. This can be difficult, as a number of PSSM2 horses appear to be sensitive to alfalfa and/or soy (which are the easiest and most common high protein feeds to use). Others aren't bothered by alfalfa or soy at all. Regular exercise might be more detrimental than helpful in some of these cases, as rest periods that allow the damaged muscles a chance to heal are critical.

Adequate turn out space is extremely beneficial to both types; they typically do not do well when confined to stalls.

Symptoms are very similar in both types of PSSM (and EPM, as well as Lyme disease and magnesium deficiency); but run the gamut between physical and behavioral issues.

Physical symptoms include tying up, general muscle pain, stiff, tight muscles, progressive muscle atrophy, muscle "divots" or atrophy points, sensitivity to cold weather, sensitivity to touch (brushing, cinching up, etc), difficulty holding the feet up for farrier work, rough and uncoordinated movement, profuse sweating, reluctance to move, difficulty backing, "mystery" lamenesses that usually can't be specifically identified on lameness exams.

It's difficult to describe the behavioral symptoms, because it's literally anything a horse will do to avoid a painful or uncomfortable situation. In some horses, this can manifest as aggressive behavior like kicking, striking, and biting. In others, dangerous behaviors like bucking, rearing, falling over backwards, or running away with riders. In others it might be more subtle, just a general grumpy and unwilling attitude. Quite a few are described as spooky and flighty, with unpredictable and explosive outbursts.

Thank you for posting this. I don't do Facebook.

Edited by GLP 2018-05-08 1:20 PM
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Whinny19
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2018-05-08 2:45 PM (#7395632 - in reply to #7395343)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments



Brains Behind the Operation...


Posts: 4465
200020001001001001002525
Location: Montana
You're very welcome! 
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Serenity06
Reg. Feb 2011
Posted 2018-05-08 4:49 PM (#7395643 - in reply to #7395343)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments



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Posts: 1113
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Location: Texas
My gelding fits Whinny’s description to a T. I had him pretty well managed after finally learning about PSSM 2. However he’s regressed and is currently unrideable. He is suspected PSSM2 and RER. Waiting on his test results.

Ace was managed on Triple Crown Senior, Mellow Muscle by Sierra Gold, alfalfa pellets, 2tbsp salt, and unlimited grass hay. I’ve been finding oats in my TC Senior for MONTHS now (Triple Crown is well aware) so idk if that has anything to do with his decline or not. I’m currently in the process of playing with his feed program, again, to try to get him back to being managed.

Banamine helps with his tie ups. It’s been a long and heart wrenching journey.
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Wild1
Reg. Oct 2008
Posted 2018-05-08 6:27 PM (#7395651 - in reply to #7395343)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments


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Posts: 725
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VERY helpful post Whinny! Thank you I also sent you a PM :)
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roxieannie
Reg. Sep 2006
Posted 2018-05-09 7:22 AM (#7395670 - in reply to #7395343)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments



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Location: southeast Texas
 You should do FB for these two forums. You will learn a lot to help your horse. Very knowledgable with very current up to date information. every horse is different on what they can handle. Mine is P2 px/RER. I manage him a certain way and another lady who's horse is P2 px/RER, her horse would fall apart with the way I manage mine. 
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slipperyslope
Reg. Nov 2008
Posted 2018-05-09 10:38 AM (#7395700 - in reply to #7395670)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments





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roxieannie - 2018-05-09 6:22 AM

 You should do FB for these two forums. You will learn a lot to help your horse. Very knowledgable with very current up to date information. every horse is different on what they can handle. Mine is P2 px/RER. I manage him a certain way and another lady who's horse is P2 px/RER, her horse would fall apart with the way I manage mine. 

very much agree!
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Buckles
Reg. Feb 2010
Posted 2018-05-14 5:25 AM (#7396129 - in reply to #7395504)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments


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Posts: 507
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Wild1 - 2018-05-07 10:11 PM

Buckles - 2018-05-07 6:28 AM

I have 4 horses that tested positive with the new hair test. All were having symptoms, one to the point we had retired him. After changing to a high protein diet (I use triple crown 30 and add tri amino. Also added chia seeds for omega 3) I am back to riding the one we had retired. He was having spasms only when he was stressed, not related to exercising him. My husband's horse was having the mildest symptoms, we were having a hard time keeping any topline and weight on him and he was occasionally lame for no reason one day and then perfectly fine the next. Haven't had a problem with him since putting him on the high protein diet last year except for now hes hard to keep weight off! I only have one I cannot get his back pain under control, but he also has feet issues from poor conformation which has been an ongoing struggle.
I have some methacarbomal on hand, but I haven't used it in a year and a half. I don't do all the extras that are suggested on the pssm group on facebook anymore like the magnesium and vit e. I saw no difference in my horses on it and with 4 on it the price to feed them was getting ridiculous.

Where or what feed has Tri Amino? I never heard of this sorry, I also would like to know the forum on the FB regarding this? I was told not to feed any sugary type grains...I haven't had any testing done yet so this really helps with your reply. Thank you

Tri amino is a supplement, not feed. I get mind from smartpak. Its made by Uckele.

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slipperyslope
Reg. Nov 2008
Posted 2018-05-14 6:11 PM (#7396232 - in reply to #7396129)
Subject: RE: PSSM2 symptoms/treatments





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Location: in the ozone
Buckles - 2018-05-14 4:25 AM

Wild1 - 2018-05-07 10:11 PM

Buckles - 2018-05-07 6:28 AM

I have 4 horses that tested positive with the new hair test. All were having symptoms, one to the point we had retired him. After changing to a high protein diet (I use triple crown 30 and add tri amino. Also added chia seeds for omega 3) I am back to riding the one we had retired. He was having spasms only when he was stressed, not related to exercising him. My husband's horse was having the mildest symptoms, we were having a hard time keeping any topline and weight on him and he was occasionally lame for no reason one day and then perfectly fine the next. Haven't had a problem with him since putting him on the high protein diet last year except for now hes hard to keep weight off! I only have one I cannot get his back pain under control, but he also has feet issues from poor conformation which has been an ongoing struggle.
I have some methacarbomal on hand, but I haven't used it in a year and a half. I don't do all the extras that are suggested on the pssm group on facebook anymore like the magnesium and vit e. I saw no difference in my horses on it and with 4 on it the price to feed them was getting ridiculous.

Where or what feed has Tri Amino? I never heard of this sorry, I also would like to know the forum on the FB regarding this? I was told not to feed any sugary type grains...I haven't had any testing done yet so this really helps with your reply. Thank you

Tri amino is a supplement, not feed. I get mind from smartpak. Its made by Uckele.


Many of the Ration Balancers have the correct amount of Tri Aminos in them, such as TC30. If your horse is not sensitive to soy, it is a very highly recommended feed and usually easy to find.
As far as the forums, the PSSM Forum is the best one - https://www.facebook.com/groups/202978353056065/ and the other one https://www.facebook.com/groups/833944333446431/ is great for help in trying to get your horse managed. The one that talks about 5 panel genetic testing is worthless imo. They advocate intentionally breeding all these genetic diseases forward
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