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Pure Biotin
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dRowe
Reg. Jan 2017
Posted 2018-05-10 2:55 PM (#7395883)
Subject: Pure Biotin


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What are your favorite pure biotin supplements? Where do you buy it from?
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hoofs_N_bridles
Reg. Feb 2017
Posted 2018-05-10 3:04 PM (#7395884 - in reply to #7395883)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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amazon... AniMed Biotin. $20 for 5lbs I believe.
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winwillows
Reg. Jul 2013
Posted 2018-05-10 6:36 PM (#7395916 - in reply to #7395883)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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Location: Willows, CA
It is easy to get fooled by the products selling as pure biotin. The example above by AniMed provides 6.25 mg per 1 oz. fed. Since there are 28349 mg in 1 oz, providing 6.25mg is hardly pure biotin, but instead is some biotin in a filler. I don't mean to pick on AniMed. They all do this. In the past I have seen pure biotin priced as high as $6000.00 per Kilo for pharmaceutical grade pure biotin. It is much cheaper now, but you still are not going to get pure biotin at retail for less that $30 per oz, making a 5 pound bucket $2400.
Cornell released a study in the early 2000's that stated an interesting trial result. A horse with a fully functioning hind gut using a roughage based diet (read little or no grain) will make all the biotin that they can use on their own as a function of the beneficial bacteria found there. Added biotin in these diets resulted in no measureable improvement in hoof growth over a two year period.
Now, you may see an improvement in hoof condition from added biotin if you feed a high grain ration, since that diet will prevent the bacteria in the hind guy from producing as much biotin as they normally would due to the disruptive effect of undigested grain getting into the hind gut and altering the PH.
So, you say, if it does not work, why put it in hoof products? Simple, marketing. People have been so conditioned to only buy hoof products with biotin on the label that literally all companies that make such a product add diluted biotin to the formula so that it can be listed on the label.
With a good low grain diet, Lysine, Methionine and Zinc will improve hoof condition. When you buy a hoof product that works for your horses diet, look on the ingredient list. You will see those three ingredients there. Supplement companies know this, but add biotin because customers simply will not buy the product unless biotin is listed.

Edited by winwillows 2018-05-10 6:40 PM
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dRowe
Reg. Jan 2017
Posted 2018-05-10 6:43 PM (#7395917 - in reply to #7395916)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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Posts: 239
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winwillows - 2018-05-10 7:36 PM

It is easy to get fooled by the products selling as pure biotin. The example above by AniMed provides 6.25 mg per 1 oz. fed. Since there are 28349 mg in 1 oz, providing 6.25mg is hardly pure biotin, but instead is some biotin in a filler. I don't mean to pick on AniMed. They all do this. In the past I have seen pure biotin priced as high as $6000.00 per Kilo for pharmaceutical grade pure biotin. It is much cheaper now, but you still are not going to get pure biotin at retail for less that $30 per oz, making a 5 pound bucket $2400.
Cornell released a study in the early 2000's that stated an interesting trial result. A horse with a fully functioning hind gut using a roughage based diet (read little or no grain) will make all the biotin that they can use on their own as a function of the beneficial bacteria found there. Added biotin in these diets resulted in no measureable improvement in hoof growth over a two year period.
Now, you may see an improvement in hoof condition from added biotin if you feed a high grain ration, since that diet will prevent the bacteria in the hind guy from producing as much biotin as they normally would due to the disruptive effect of undigested grain getting into the hind gut and altering the PH.
So, you say, if it does not work, why put it in hoof products? Simple, marketing. People have been so conditioned to only buy hoof products with biotin on the label that literally all companies that make such a product add diluted biotin to the formula so that it can be listed on the label.
With a good low grain diet, Lysine, Methionine and Zinc will improve hoof condition. When you buy a hoof product that works for your horses diet, look on the ingredient list. You will see those three ingredients there. Supplement companies know this, but add biotin because customers simply will not buy the product unless biotin is listed.

Thank you!!!
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wyoming barrel racer
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2018-05-11 10:06 AM (#7395954 - in reply to #7395883)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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 THE has pure Biotin. I have 80 scoop tubs on sale. The ingredients-00% High-quality Vitamin B7 (Biotin).
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2018-05-11 10:17 AM (#7395957 - in reply to #7395916)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin



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winwillows - 2018-05-10 6:36 PM It is easy to get fooled by the products selling as pure biotin. The example above by AniMed provides 6.25 mg per 1 oz. fed. Since there are 28349 mg in 1 oz, providing 6.25mg is hardly pure biotin, but instead is some biotin in a filler. I don't mean to pick on AniMed. They all do this. In the past I have seen pure biotin priced as high as $6000.00 per Kilo for pharmaceutical grade pure biotin. It is much cheaper now, but you still are not going to get pure biotin at retail for less that $30 per oz, making a 5 pound bucket $2400. Cornell released a study in the early 2000's that stated an interesting trial result. A horse with a fully functioning hind gut using a roughage based diet (read little or no grain) will make all the biotin that they can use on their own as a function of the beneficial bacteria found there. Added biotin in these diets resulted in no measureable improvement in hoof growth over a two year period. Now, you may see an improvement in hoof condition from added biotin if you feed a high grain ration, since that diet will prevent the bacteria in the hind guy from producing as much biotin as they normally would due to the disruptive effect of undigested grain getting into the hind gut and altering the PH. So, you say, if it does not work, why put it in hoof products? Simple, marketing. People have been so conditioned to only buy hoof products with biotin on the label that literally all companies that make such a product add diluted biotin to the formula so that it can be listed on the label. With a good low grain diet, Lysine, Methionine and Zinc will improve hoof condition. When you buy a hoof product that works for your horses diet, look on the ingredient list. You will see those three ingredients there. Supplement companies know this, but add biotin because customers simply will not buy the product unless biotin is listed.

Wow thats really interesting, Thanks  
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TheDutchMan01
Reg. Jan 2010
Posted 2018-05-11 11:02 AM (#7395960 - in reply to #7395883)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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You also need Zinc, methonine, and copper. They all work together to help build the hoof. I have had really good luck with DAC Foundation formula. My horse has grown a lot more hoof wall and has kept his shoes on better in the summer. They seem to grow faster too. I've used it for a little over 1.5 years now, so its been long enough to see a difference. Its not overly pricey either. I ended up just purchasing a full year supply this spring because I know I am going to keep him on it. I order from Big Ds or Jeffers.
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OhMax
Reg. Feb 2013
Posted 2018-05-11 12:51 PM (#7395971 - in reply to #7395916)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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Posts: 2594
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winwillows - 2018-05-10 6:36 PM

It is easy to get fooled by the products selling as pure biotin. The example above by AniMed provides 6.25 mg per 1 oz. fed. Since there are 28349 mg in 1 oz, providing 6.25mg is hardly pure biotin, but instead is some biotin in a filler. I don't mean to pick on AniMed. They all do this. In the past I have seen pure biotin priced as high as $6000.00 per Kilo for pharmaceutical grade pure biotin. It is much cheaper now, but you still are not going to get pure biotin at retail for less that $30 per oz, making a 5 pound bucket $2400.
Cornell released a study in the early 2000's that stated an interesting trial result. A horse with a fully functioning hind gut using a roughage based diet (read little or no grain) will make all the biotin that they can use on their own as a function of the beneficial bacteria found there. Added biotin in these diets resulted in no measureable improvement in hoof growth over a two year period.
Now, you may see an improvement in hoof condition from added biotin if you feed a high grain ration, since that diet will prevent the bacteria in the hind guy from producing as much biotin as they normally would due to the disruptive effect of undigested grain getting into the hind gut and altering the PH.
So, you say, if it does not work, why put it in hoof products? Simple, marketing. People have been so conditioned to only buy hoof products with biotin on the label that literally all companies that make such a product add diluted biotin to the formula so that it can be listed on the label.
With a good low grain diet, Lysine, Methionine and Zinc will improve hoof condition. When you buy a hoof product that works for your horses diet, look on the ingredient list. You will see those three ingredients there. Supplement companies know this, but add biotin because customers simply will not buy the product unless biotin is listed.

What he said ^

Biotin is not usually the most limiting factor.

My trimmer actually has a theory that the water we use for our livestock has a role in it. More and more farms are on a filtered water source, either city or a rural water authority. Well water has a different nutrient profile when it comes to minerals, metals, etc. he catches the water for his livestock in a rain barrel type system unless in drought.

We feed Platinum as an all around supplement and have seen tremendous growth in mane/tail. We had pretty good feet before starting so it’s hard to say there, but pulling shoes and going barefoot has made a big difference as well.
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winwillows
Reg. Jul 2013
Posted 2018-05-11 5:40 PM (#7395993 - in reply to #7395954)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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wyoming barrel racer - 2018-05-11 10:06 AM

 THE has pure Biotin. I have 80 scoop tubs on sale. The ingredients-00% High-quality Vitamin B7 (Biotin).

Now I am confused. THE says that their biotin supplement is pure biotin on the web site. I checked pure biotin (as in 100% pharmaceutical biotin with no carrier) price today at $680 per Kilo (2.2 pounds), or $19.32 per oz in bulk before shipping, packaging and profit mark up ect. THE does not state the size of the scoop, but a 80 serving jug sells for $60 dollars on the web site. So, going by current market price you can buy a little over 3 oz of pure biotin for $60 wholesale if you buy in multi kilo purchases. Assuming that the company wants to make some money after buying shipping packaging and paying the people who work for them to do all that, and assuming that the 80 serving container is something larger than 3oz, these numbers do not work. The web site says that it is a "proprietary blend", but pure biotin is not a blend. So, I am assuming that what is being sold is what the market calls 1% biotin. That is made up of 1% biotin and 99% neutral carrier. The active ingredient is pure biotin, hence the name, but the whole product is a small fraction of biotin. There may be other percentages, say 2% or even perhaps 5%, and that may be what the proprietary blend mentioned on the web site is. As I said before, every supplement maker that I know does this. Though it looks like I am picking on THE, I am not. I really like and, have at times, recommend their products. If there is a rep for them on the forum, they may be able to find the actual inclusion rate or the amount of biotin supplied per serving and exactly what that serving size is for a clarification. I have no issue with a company selling a blend, but to compare one to another it would be useful to know how many milligrams per serving of pure undeluted Biotin is actually being supplied by that serving.

Edited by winwillows 2018-05-11 5:50 PM
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Whiteboy
Reg. Jul 2012
Posted 2018-05-11 5:53 PM (#7395995 - in reply to #7395993)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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winwillows - 2018-05-11 5:40 PM
wyoming barrel racer - 2018-05-11 10:06 AM  THE has pure Biotin. I have 80 scoop tubs on sale. The ingredients-00% High-quality Vitamin B7 (Biotin).
Now I am confused. THE says that their biotin supplement is pure biotin on the web site. I checked pure biotin (as in 100% pharmaceutical biotin with no carrier) price today at $680 per Kilo (2.2 pounds), or $19.32 per oz in bulk before shipping, packaging and profit mark up ect. THE does not state the size of the scoop, but a 80 serving jug sells for $60 dollars on the web site. So, going by current market price you can buy a little over 3 oz of pure biotin for $60 wholesale if you buy in multi kilo purchases. Assuming that the company wants to make some money after buying shipping packaging and paying the people who work for them to do all that, and assuming that the 80 serving container is something larger than 3oz, these numbers do not work. The web site says that it is a "proprietary blend", but pure biotin is not a blend. So, I am assuming that what is being sold is what the market calls 1% biotin. That is made up of 1% biotin and 99% neutral carrier. The active ingredient is pure biotin, hence the name, but the whole product is a small fraction of biotin. There may be other percentages, say 2% or even perhaps 5%, and that may be what the proprietary blend mentioned on the web site is. As I said before, every supplement maker that I know does this. Though it looks like I am picking on THE, I am not. I really like and, have at times, recommend their products. If there is a rep for them on the forum, they may be able to find the actual inclusion rate or the amount of biotin supplied per serving and exactly what that serving size is for a clarification. I have no issue with a company selling a blend, but to compare one to another it would be useful to know how many milligrams per serving of pure undeluted Biotin is actually being supplied by that serving.

She states it as ""zero" % High-quality Vitamin B7 (biotin)".  lol   
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2018-05-11 5:57 PM (#7395996 - in reply to #7395916)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin



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Posts: 35551
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winwillows - 2018-05-10 6:36 PM It is easy to get fooled by the products selling as pure biotin. The example above by AniMed provides 6.25 mg per 1 oz. fed. Since there are 28349 mg in 1 oz, providing 6.25mg is hardly pure biotin, but instead is some biotin in a filler. I don't mean to pick on AniMed. They all do this. In the past I have seen pure biotin priced as high as $6000.00 per Kilo for pharmaceutical grade pure biotin. It is much cheaper now, but you still are not going to get pure biotin at retail for less that $30 per oz, making a 5 pound bucket $2400. Cornell released a study in the early 2000's that stated an interesting trial result. A horse with a fully functioning hind gut using a roughage based diet (read little or no grain) will make all the biotin that they can use on their own as a function of the beneficial bacteria found there. Added biotin in these diets resulted in no measureable improvement in hoof growth over a two year period. Now, you may see an improvement in hoof condition from added biotin if you feed a high grain ration, since that diet will prevent the bacteria in the hind guy from producing as much biotin as they normally would due to the disruptive effect of undigested grain getting into the hind gut and altering the PH. So, you say, if it does not work, why put it in hoof products? Simple, marketing. People have been so conditioned to only buy hoof products with biotin on the label that literally all companies that make such a product add diluted biotin to the formula so that it can be listed on the label. With a good low grain diet, Lysine, Methionine and Zinc will improve hoof condition. When you buy a hoof product that works for your horses diet, look on the ingredient list. You will see those three ingredients there. Supplement companies know this, but add biotin because customers simply will not buy the product unless biotin is listed.

So what your saying is if the horse is healthy and on a good pasture/feed really theres no need in buying a biotin carrying product because the horse can product his own biotin is that what I'm reading in your writing?  What do you think of Biomane? 
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winwillows
Reg. Jul 2013
Posted 2018-05-11 6:16 PM (#7395997 - in reply to #7395996)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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Location: Willows, CA
Southtxponygirl - 2018-05-11 5:57 PM

winwillows - 2018-05-10 6:36 PM It is easy to get fooled by the products selling as pure biotin. The example above by AniMed provides 6.25 mg per 1 oz. fed. Since there are 28349 mg in 1 oz, providing 6.25mg is hardly pure biotin, but instead is some biotin in a filler. I don't mean to pick on AniMed. They all do this. In the past I have seen pure biotin priced as high as $6000.00 per Kilo for pharmaceutical grade pure biotin. It is much cheaper now, but you still are not going to get pure biotin at retail for less that $30 per oz, making a 5 pound bucket $2400. Cornell released a study in the early 2000's that stated an interesting trial result. A horse with a fully functioning hind gut using a roughage based diet (read little or no grain) will make all the biotin that they can use on their own as a function of the beneficial bacteria found there. Added biotin in these diets resulted in no measureable improvement in hoof growth over a two year period. Now, you may see an improvement in hoof condition from added biotin if you feed a high grain ration, since that diet will prevent the bacteria in the hind guy from producing as much biotin as they normally would due to the disruptive effect of undigested grain getting into the hind gut and altering the PH. So, you say, if it does not work, why put it in hoof products? Simple, marketing. People have been so conditioned to only buy hoof products with biotin on the label that literally all companies that make such a product add diluted biotin to the formula so that it can be listed on the label. With a good low grain diet, Lysine, Methionine and Zinc will improve hoof condition. When you buy a hoof product that works for your horses diet, look on the ingredient list. You will see those three ingredients there. Supplement companies know this, but add biotin because customers simply will not buy the product unless biotin is listed.

So what your saying is if the horse is healthy and on a good pasture/feed really theres no need in buying a biotin carrying product because the horse can product his own biotin is that what I'm reading in your writing?  What do you think of Biomane? 

First off, yes that is what I am saying. I am not saying all hoof products don't work. I am saying not to buy one for the biotin, but for the other ingredients that I mentioned above. As to your other question, I have not fed Biomane, nor have I had a customer tell me that they were. I really don't like to talk down another product or manufacturer. I always just looks like I am trying to steal a customer, and I am not. I can't feed every horse no matter how good a product I make is, or how bad something else is. I can give some thoughts on the ingredient list though. All ingredient lists have to go from most used ingredient to least used ingredient. The tell tail things to look for is the first ingredient that you know would be in there in a tiny amount. Everything before that will make up the majority of the formulation. If we look at the top of the ingredient list for the above product it goes like this. Ground grains, Plant Protein, Corn Distillers Dried Grain, Biotin Supplement. I explained above what kind of biotin inclusion you can realistically expect to see in a formula, so you know that is the first very small inclusion, and the vast majority of the product is everything listed before Biotin. Now, that said, there is a lot of following ingredients that are effective at small inclusions if the horses digestive system is not already overloaded with disruptive feed. So, some horses that are already on a low grain diet may find value in those following ingredients. As to the value of those first ingredients, they are mostly there to fill out the bag and appeal to the horses flavor preferences so that he eats the product. I would guess that those first ingredients listed before Biotin Supplement will make up 98% of the formula.

Edited by winwillows 2018-05-11 6:24 PM
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2018-05-11 6:22 PM (#7395998 - in reply to #7395997)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin



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Posts: 35551
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winwillows - 2018-05-11 6:16 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2018-05-11 5:57 PM
winwillows - 2018-05-10 6:36 PM It is easy to get fooled by the products selling as pure biotin. The example above by AniMed provides 6.25 mg per 1 oz. fed. Since there are 28349 mg in 1 oz, providing 6.25mg is hardly pure biotin, but instead is some biotin in a filler. I don't mean to pick on AniMed. They all do this. In the past I have seen pure biotin priced as high as $6000.00 per Kilo for pharmaceutical grade pure biotin. It is much cheaper now, but you still are not going to get pure biotin at retail for less that $30 per oz, making a 5 pound bucket $2400. Cornell released a study in the early 2000's that stated an interesting trial result. A horse with a fully functioning hind gut using a roughage based diet (read little or no grain) will make all the biotin that they can use on their own as a function of the beneficial bacteria found there. Added biotin in these diets resulted in no measureable improvement in hoof growth over a two year period. Now, you may see an improvement in hoof condition from added biotin if you feed a high grain ration, since that diet will prevent the bacteria in the hind guy from producing as much biotin as they normally would due to the disruptive effect of undigested grain getting into the hind gut and altering the PH. So, you say, if it does not work, why put it in hoof products? Simple, marketing. People have been so conditioned to only buy hoof products with biotin on the label that literally all companies that make such a product add diluted biotin to the formula so that it can be listed on the label. With a good low grain diet, Lysine, Methionine and Zinc will improve hoof condition. When you buy a hoof product that works for your horses diet, look on the ingredient list. You will see those three ingredients there. Supplement companies know this, but add biotin because customers simply will not buy the product unless biotin is listed.
So what your saying is if the horse is healthy and on a good pasture/feed really theres no need in buying a biotin carrying product because the horse can product his own biotin is that what I'm reading in your writing?  What do you think of Biomane? 
First off, yes that is what I am saying. As to your other question, I have not fed Biomane, nor have I had a customer tell me that they were. I really don't like to talk down another product or manufacturer. I always just looks like I am trying to steal a customer, and I am not. I can't feed every horse no matter how good a product I make is, or how bad something else is. I can give some thoughts on the ingredient list though. All ingredient lists have to go from most used ingredient to least used ingredient. The tell tail things to look for is the first ingredient that you know would be in there in a tiny amount. Everything before that will make up the majority of the formulation. If we look at the top of the ingredient list for the above product it goes like this. Ground grains, Plant Protein, Corn Distillers Dried Grain, Biotin Supplement. I explained above what kind of biotin inclusion you can realistically expect to see in a formula, so you know that is the first very small inclusion, and the vast majority of the product is everything else. Now, that said, there is a lot of following ingredients that are effective at small inclusions if the horses digestive system is not already overloaded with disruptive feed. So, some horses that are already on a low grain diet may find value in those following ingredients. As to the value of those first ingredients, they are mostly there to fill out the bag and appeal to the horses flavor preferences so that he eats the product.
I went looking to see what was in Biomane and I could not anything about the amount of Biotin in this product, lol I guess I'm over looking the part about the biotin, oh well just curious on what you thought about it.. Thanks Win.. 
Edit to say" I did'nt read anywhere that you were talking down any products you were just talking and explaining..


Edited by Southtxponygirl 2018-05-11 6:27 PM
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wyoming barrel racer
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2018-05-11 6:46 PM (#7395999 - in reply to #7395995)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


Military family

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Posts: 10830
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Whiteboy - 2018-05-11 4:53 PM
winwillows - 2018-05-11 5:40 PM
wyoming barrel racer - 2018-05-11 10:06 AM  THE has pure Biotin. I have 80 scoop tubs on sale. The ingredients-00% High-quality Vitamin B7 (Biotin).
Now I am confused. THE says that their biotin supplement is pure biotin on the web site. I checked pure biotin (as in 100% pharmaceutical biotin with no carrier) price today at $680 per Kilo (2.2 pounds), or $19.32 per oz in bulk before shipping, packaging and profit mark up ect. THE does not state the size of the scoop, but a 80 serving jug sells for $60 dollars on the web site. So, going by current market price you can buy a little over 3 oz of pure biotin for $60 wholesale if you buy in multi kilo purchases. Assuming that the company wants to make some money after buying shipping packaging and paying the people who work for them to do all that, and assuming that the 80 serving container is something larger than 3oz, these numbers do not work. The web site says that it is a "proprietary blend", but pure biotin is not a blend. So, I am assuming that what is being sold is what the market calls 1% biotin. That is made up of 1% biotin and 99% neutral carrier. The active ingredient is pure biotin, hence the name, but the whole product is a small fraction of biotin. There may be other percentages, say 2% or even perhaps 5%, and that may be what the proprietary blend mentioned on the web site is. As I said before, every supplement maker that I know does this. Though it looks like I am picking on THE, I am not. I really like and, have at times, recommend their products. If there is a rep for them on the forum, they may be able to find the actual inclusion rate or the amount of biotin supplied per serving and exactly what that serving size is for a clarification. I have no issue with a company selling a blend, but to compare one to another it would be useful to know how many milligrams per serving of pure undeluted Biotin is actually being supplied by that serving.
She states it as ""zero" % High-quality Vitamin B7 (biotin)".  lol   
should be 100%. My 1 didn't copy/paste
The scoop is very small. 2,000mg serving


Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2018-05-11 6:51 PM
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dRowe
Reg. Jan 2017
Posted 2018-05-11 9:04 PM (#7396002 - in reply to #7395998)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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Southtxponygirl - 2018-05-11 7:22 PM

winwillows - 2018-05-11 6:16 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2018-05-11 5:57 PM
winwillows - 2018-05-10 6:36 PM It is easy to get fooled by the products selling as pure biotin. The example above by AniMed provides 6.25 mg per 1 oz. fed. Since there are 28349 mg in 1 oz, providing 6.25mg is hardly pure biotin, but instead is some biotin in a filler. I don't mean to pick on AniMed. They all do this. In the past I have seen pure biotin priced as high as $6000.00 per Kilo for pharmaceutical grade pure biotin. It is much cheaper now, but you still are not going to get pure biotin at retail for less that $30 per oz, making a 5 pound bucket $2400. Cornell released a study in the early 2000's that stated an interesting trial result. A horse with a fully functioning hind gut using a roughage based diet (read little or no grain) will make all the biotin that they can use on their own as a function of the beneficial bacteria found there. Added biotin in these diets resulted in no measureable improvement in hoof growth over a two year period. Now, you may see an improvement in hoof condition from added biotin if you feed a high grain ration, since that diet will prevent the bacteria in the hind guy from producing as much biotin as they normally would due to the disruptive effect of undigested grain getting into the hind gut and altering the PH. So, you say, if it does not work, why put it in hoof products? Simple, marketing. People have been so conditioned to only buy hoof products with biotin on the label that literally all companies that make such a product add diluted biotin to the formula so that it can be listed on the label. With a good low grain diet, Lysine, Methionine and Zinc will improve hoof condition. When you buy a hoof product that works for your horses diet, look on the ingredient list. You will see those three ingredients there. Supplement companies know this, but add biotin because customers simply will not buy the product unless biotin is listed.
So what your saying is if the horse is healthy and on a good pasture/feed really theres no need in buying a biotin carrying product because the horse can product his own biotin is that what I'm reading in your writing?  What do you think of Biomane? 
First off, yes that is what I am saying. As to your other question, I have not fed Biomane, nor have I had a customer tell me that they were. I really don't like to talk down another product or manufacturer. I always just looks like I am trying to steal a customer, and I am not. I can't feed every horse no matter how good a product I make is, or how bad something else is. I can give some thoughts on the ingredient list though. All ingredient lists have to go from most used ingredient to least used ingredient. The tell tail things to look for is the first ingredient that you know would be in there in a tiny amount. Everything before that will make up the majority of the formulation. If we look at the top of the ingredient list for the above product it goes like this. Ground grains, Plant Protein, Corn Distillers Dried Grain, Biotin Supplement. I explained above what kind of biotin inclusion you can realistically expect to see in a formula, so you know that is the first very small inclusion, and the vast majority of the product is everything else. Now, that said, there is a lot of following ingredients that are effective at small inclusions if the horses digestive system is not already overloaded with disruptive feed. So, some horses that are already on a low grain diet may find value in those following ingredients. As to the value of those first ingredients, they are mostly there to fill out the bag and appeal to the horses flavor preferences so that he eats the product.
I went looking to see what was in Biomane and I could not anything about the amount of Biotin in this product, lol I guess I'm over looking the part about the biotin, oh well just curious on what you thought about it.. Thanks Win.. 
Edit to say" I did'nt read anywhere that you were talking down any products you were just talking and explaining..

A little off topic, but I fed 2 of my horses biomane for 6 weeks. I took before and after pics. No difference in length of manes or tails at ALL.
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Whiteboy
Reg. Jul 2012
Posted 2018-05-14 9:16 AM (#7396144 - in reply to #7395999)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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wyoming barrel racer - 2018-05-11 6:46 PM
Whiteboy - 2018-05-11 4:53 PM
winwillows - 2018-05-11 5:40 PM
wyoming barrel racer - 2018-05-11 10:06 AM  THE has pure Biotin. I have 80 scoop tubs on sale. The ingredients-00% High-quality Vitamin B7 (Biotin).
Now I am confused. THE says that their biotin supplement is pure biotin on the web site. I checked pure biotin (as in 100% pharmaceutical biotin with no carrier) price today at $680 per Kilo (2.2 pounds), or $19.32 per oz in bulk before shipping, packaging and profit mark up ect. THE does not state the size of the scoop, but a 80 serving jug sells for $60 dollars on the web site. So, going by current market price you can buy a little over 3 oz of pure biotin for $60 wholesale if you buy in multi kilo purchases. Assuming that the company wants to make some money after buying shipping packaging and paying the people who work for them to do all that, and assuming that the 80 serving container is something larger than 3oz, these numbers do not work. The web site says that it is a "proprietary blend", but pure biotin is not a blend. So, I am assuming that what is being sold is what the market calls 1% biotin. That is made up of 1% biotin and 99% neutral carrier. The active ingredient is pure biotin, hence the name, but the whole product is a small fraction of biotin. There may be other percentages, say 2% or even perhaps 5%, and that may be what the proprietary blend mentioned on the web site is. As I said before, every supplement maker that I know does this. Though it looks like I am picking on THE, I am not. I really like and, have at times, recommend their products. If there is a rep for them on the forum, they may be able to find the actual inclusion rate or the amount of biotin supplied per serving and exactly what that serving size is for a clarification. I have no issue with a company selling a blend, but to compare one to another it would be useful to know how many milligrams per serving of pure undeluted Biotin is actually being supplied by that serving.
She states it as ""zero" % High-quality Vitamin B7 (biotin)".  lol   
should be 100%. My 1 didn't copy/paste

The scoop is very small. 2,000mg serving

I figured...just giving you a little crap.   
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Herbie
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2018-05-14 9:28 AM (#7396148 - in reply to #7395883)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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Interesting read on hoof growth and how it relates to protein deficiency.  Biotin alone may not get you where you need to be no matter how large the dose.  Myself and Three4Luck have been playing with some different things based on the information in this article and some of his others and I know i've very happy with the results i've had, and so far I think she is seeing improvement as well.   https://theequinepractice.com/protein/
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winwillows
Reg. Jul 2013
Posted 2018-05-14 2:24 PM (#7396201 - in reply to #7396148)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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Herbie - 2018-05-14 9:28 AM

Interesting read on hoof growth and how it relates to protein deficiency.  Biotin alone may not get you where you need to be no matter how large the dose.  Myself and Three4Luck have been playing with some different things based on the information in this article and some of his others and I know i've very happy with the results i've had, and so far I think she is seeing improvement as well.   https://theequinepractice.com/protein/

Interesting article and right on many points. I do disagree with some of the recommended solutions, but that is personal opinion since I am strongly anti-soy for a number of reasons. However, there is sound information here. Very good point about Lysine that we have been making for many years. It is at a significant level in Renew Gold for these reasons, and has an additional inclusion in our Senior formulation for exactly the reasons stated here. This is the most often deficient LAA in most equine diets, and a vital key to tissue repair and recovery time, as the article stated. Good references in the article about inflammation in the digestive system and the problems with nutrient uptake that it causes. If you have performance horses you should take the time to read this article. Protein is pretty well explained here.
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Sandok
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2018-05-14 2:54 PM (#7396208 - in reply to #7395883)
Subject: RE: Pure Biotin


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Thanks for the article. So what are you trying out?
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