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Cyst navicular bursa
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2018-05-14 12:35 PM (#7396176)
Subject: Cyst navicular bursa



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Recent x rays show my mare has a small cyst on her navicular bursa which rubs her DDFT, which has caused some intermittent lameness. So, last Wednesday he did coffin bone injections and the series of 3 Osphos shots and recommended Equioxx daily...and see. I ran her twice this weekend (2 separate days) and she's real sore today. I've sent my x rays to the farrier and she may need some changes, appointment is Friday. (I will add her feet have been an uphill battle due to precious owners idiocy.)

Does anyone have experience with this? Has something worked for you? What has not worked? Am I in for an uphill, ongoing battle? Any other options?
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2018-05-14 1:08 PM (#7396182 - in reply to #7396176)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa


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Series of 3 Osphos shots ???
If it’s been less than a week after injections and you ran her 3 times, it’s not too surprising she’s sore.
Injecting the navicular bursa would do more good than the coffin bone injection, if that’s where the cyst is. Be sure he xrays to make sure he’s in the right spot (for bursa inj)
Proper shoeing is very important (positive palmar angle, good medial/lateral balance).
I don’t think you know, for sure, what’s going on in a foot without an MRI. X-rays only tell part of the story.
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FLITASTIC
Reg. Jun 2012
Posted 2018-05-14 1:08 PM (#7396183 - in reply to #7396176)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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Had a gelding diagnosed with one in RF foot. Only sore once in a while at first, saved him for the high dollar barrel races. THen it progressed to previcox daily, and runs were made with Ketophen as well. He was retired within 2 years and had to be put down a year into retirement because the pain was not manageable and he was miserable.
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2018-05-14 1:14 PM (#7396184 - in reply to #7396182)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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Liana D - 2018-05-14 1:08 PM

Series of 3 Osphos shots ???
If it’s been less than a week after injections and you ran her 3 times, it’s not too surprising she’s sore.
Injecting the navicular bursa would do more good than the coffin bone injection, if that’s where the cyst is. Be sure he xrays to make sure he’s in the right spot (for bursa inj)
Proper shoeing is very important (positive palmar angle, good medial/lateral balance).
I don’t think you know, for sure, what’s going on in a foot without an MRI. X-rays only tell part of the story.

He did the 3 shots in 3 separate injection sites. No,
I ran her twice; once Saturday and once Sunday. She was sound when she went to the vet and the barrel race and I asked the vet about running her...he said run her. Right or wrong, that's what I did.

He wanted to try this before doing the bursa injections.

Yes, agree on the shoeing. By Friday we'll have a new game plan.
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2018-05-14 1:14 PM (#7396185 - in reply to #7396183)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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FLITASTIC - 2018-05-14 1:08 PM

Had a gelding diagnosed with one in RF foot. Only sore once in a while at first, saved him for the high dollar barrel races. THen it progressed to previcox daily, and runs were made with Ketophen as well. He was retired within 2 years and had to be put down a year into retirement because the pain was not manageable and he was miserable.

Sorry to hear that. I hope my outlook isn't that grim.
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2018-05-14 1:25 PM (#7396187 - in reply to #7396184)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa


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Ok. Three inj. Sites is recommended for a normal dose.
I would question if that was actually the problem if she went to the vet sound and is now lame.
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2018-05-14 1:32 PM (#7396188 - in reply to #7396187)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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Liana D - 2018-05-14 1:25 PM

Ok. Three inj. Sites is recommended for a normal dose.
I would question if that was actually the problem if she went to the vet sound and is now lame.

Ok, I should not have said sound at the vet. She was slightly off in her RF, which has been the ongoing problem. He blocked her foot and she was sound which lead to the X-rays and found the cyst. The two days leading up to the weekend, she was sound. She was good after Saturday's run, ran Sunday, now sore.
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2018-05-14 1:48 PM (#7396193 - in reply to #7396188)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa


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RedHead84 - 2018-05-14 1:32 PM

Liana D - 2018-05-14 1:25 PM

Ok. Three inj. Sites is recommended for a normal dose.
I would question if that was actually the problem if she went to the vet sound and is now lame.

Ok, I should not have said sound at the vet. She was slightly off in her RF, which has been the ongoing problem. He blocked her foot and she was sound which lead to the X-rays and found the cyst. The two days leading up to the weekend, she was sound. She was good after Saturday's run, ran Sunday, now sore.

Gotcha. I would reblock the foot before I did anything. Just by the way you describe symptoms I would be concerned about a Soft tissue injury within the foot vs. problem being caused by the cyst.
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TheDutchMan01
Reg. Jan 2010
Posted 2018-05-14 2:18 PM (#7396200 - in reply to #7396176)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa


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I have never dealt with this type of injury/issue before but just some thoughts....

It takes 3 weeks for the osphos to start working....
Hopefully you haven't given any equiox yet because you are supposed to wait a few weeks because osphos is hard on the kidneys.
The DDFT may need sometime off to heal. (I have dealt with plenty of tendon injuries) If it is sore...it needs rest and your probably going to have to deal with the cyst first otherwise its going to continue to irritate the tendon. I've heard the DDFT is a difficult one to get to heal.
Lastly I see that you are rep for TLC...what about equibone?
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2018-05-14 2:48 PM (#7396207 - in reply to #7396200)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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TheDutchMan01 - 2018-05-14 2:18 PM

I have never dealt with this type of injury/issue before but just some thoughts....

It takes 3 weeks for the osphos to start working....
Hopefully you haven't given any equiox yet because you are supposed to wait a few weeks because osphos is hard on the kidneys.
The DDFT may need sometime off to heal. (I have dealt with plenty of tendon injuries) If it is sore...it needs rest and your probably going to have to deal with the cyst first otherwise its going to continue to irritate the tendon. I've heard the DDFT is a difficult one to get to heal.
Lastly I see that you are rep for TLC...what about equibone?


All great points. She had 7 months off and including this weekend has only made 6 runs since last August. I am quite sure I need to give the Osphos time and reevaluate her shoeing...finding the right combo and patience.

Yes, she is on Equibone and has been since late last summer. I do think it has helped a lot.

Edited by RedHead84 2018-05-14 3:01 PM
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mandita8907
Reg. Nov 2010
Posted 2018-05-14 3:51 PM (#7396217 - in reply to #7396176)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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RedHead84 - 2018-05-14 1:35 PM

Recent x rays show my mare has a small cyst on her navicular bursa which rubs her DDFT, which has caused some intermittent lameness. So, last Wednesday he did coffin bone injections and the series of 3 Osphos shots and recommended Equioxx daily...and see. I ran her twice this weekend (2 separate days) and she's real sore today. I've sent my x rays to the farrier and she may need some changes, appointment is Friday. (I will add her feet have been an uphill battle due to precious owners idiocy.)

Does anyone have experience with this? Has something worked for you? What has not worked? Am I in for an uphill, ongoing battle? Any other options?

WOW I had an identical situation to you. Cyst on the back of the coffin bone due to previous owners not getting after the farrier to keep this flat footed horses toe pulled back. Years of too much pressure on the heels. Unfortunately, I only got about 6 month of riding after the initial diagnosis. I had a local vet inject the coffin joint and it ended up getting a septic infection that caused chronic arthritis. Now the horses is retired. SO ALWAYS get your injections done at a very sterile and good vet hospital.

Before the infection I had a process like yours and It kept my horse very sound. I did previcox instead and my farrier did corrective wedge shoeing and would look at xrays to make sure he was pulling the toe back as much a possible. I could tell when it was time for to be injected again. He would duck off the second barrel or try to. It might be time to inject again...

Edited by mandita8907 2018-05-14 3:52 PM
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RedHead84
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2018-05-15 12:48 PM (#7396285 - in reply to #7396176)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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She just had the coffin bone injections a week ago. I am going to assume her DDFT is sore due to that cyst rubbing against it? Can I do anything for that at home? Runner's relief? liniment? standing wraps? PEMF?

I know her shoeing needs changed since we found the cyst, which happens Friday. She won't be worked or rode until then.
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mandita8907
Reg. Nov 2010
Posted 2018-05-15 1:14 PM (#7396291 - in reply to #7396285)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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RedHead84 - 2018-05-15 1:48 PM

She just had the coffin bone injections a week ago. I am going to assume her DDFT is sore due to that cyst rubbing against it? Can I do anything for that at home? Runner's relief? liniment? standing wraps? PEMF?

I know her shoeing needs changed since we found the cyst, which happens Friday. She won't be worked or rode until then.

I Imagine changing the shoeing angles will provide relief. Id consult with your vet and see what shoeing changes he/she would recommend
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pippy
Reg. Oct 2007
Posted 2018-05-15 1:58 PM (#7396298 - in reply to #7396176)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa


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Like someone else mentioned, an MRI will confirm everything you want to know and is critical when wanting to know how much the DDFT is involved.
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Jenbabe
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2018-05-16 2:15 PM (#7396413 - in reply to #7396298)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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pippy - 2018-05-15 1:58 PM

Like someone else mentioned, an MRI will confirm everything you want to know and is critical when wanting to know how much the DDFT is involved.

Yes, get an MRI done. My gelding was sore, but still running hard. We'd gone the route of injections, shoeing changes, anti-inflammatories, etc. I ran him on a Sunday, and he clocked. Had an MRI done the following Tuesday and he was retired that day. His navicular bone was sawing through his flexor tendon. I know that it is expensive, but in the long run it can save you money by allowing you to pinpoint the treatment, or to quit spending money if there is nothing that can be done.
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quickdraw
Reg. Apr 2009
Posted 2018-05-17 12:27 AM (#7396477 - in reply to #7396176)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa


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I was training and hauling a clients young mare that would barely limp a step or two when I trotted her off. Then she rode sound and made fabulous runs and was showing true rock star potential. The limp got worse with steady riding and exercise. Her front foot blocked out and she went sound. Xrays revealed cysts on both navicular bones and the cysts were tearing her DDF tendon. The vet recommended Osphos, stem cell injections, and 9-12 months stall rest to give the DDF a chance to heal. The owners took the mare home and stall rested her a few months. Then they started running her on the weekends and giving her bute. Only a few months later, she had to be put down at a big barrel race she came out so lame. I am still livid to this day they put that sweet mare through so much hell but they had her insured and collected the insurance. Soon after that, karma knocked on their door in a huge way and turned their world inside out.
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Herbie
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2018-05-17 11:41 AM (#7396537 - in reply to #7396413)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa


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Jenbabe - 2018-05-16 2:15 PM
pippy - 2018-05-15 1:58 PM Like someone else mentioned, an MRI will confirm everything you want to know and is critical when wanting to know how much the DDFT is involved.
Yes, get an MRI done. My gelding was sore, but still running hard. We'd gone the route of injections, shoeing changes, anti-inflammatories, etc. I ran him on a Sunday, and he clocked. Had an MRI done the following Tuesday and he was retired that day. His navicular bone was sawing through his flexor tendon. I know that it is expensive, but in the long run it can save you money by allowing you to pinpoint the treatment, or to quit spending money if there is nothing that can be done.

This! ^^^^  Not to mention avoid the heartache of a catastrophic breakdown or injury.  Without knowing how that cyst is affecting the soft tissue, IMO you're putting both yourself and horse in a huge amount of danger without knowing fully what's going on inide the hoof capsule. 
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Jenbabe
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2018-05-17 1:26 PM (#7396545 - in reply to #7396537)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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Herbie - 2018-05-17 11:41 AM

Jenbabe - 2018-05-16 2:15 PM
pippy - 2018-05-15 1:58 PM Like someone else mentioned, an MRI will confirm everything you want to know and is critical when wanting to know how much the DDFT is involved.
Yes, get an MRI done. My gelding was sore, but still running hard. We'd gone the route of injections, shoeing changes, anti-inflammatories, etc. I ran him on a Sunday, and he clocked. Had an MRI done the following Tuesday and he was retired that day. His navicular bone was sawing through his flexor tendon. I know that it is expensive, but in the long run it can save you money by allowing you to pinpoint the treatment, or to quit spending money if there is nothing that can be done.

This! ^^^^  Not to mention avoid the heartache of a catastrophic breakdown or injury.  Without knowing how that cyst is affecting the soft tissue, IMO you're putting both yourself and horse in a huge amount of danger without knowing fully what's going on inide the hoof capsule. 

I agree. I'm so glad we went the route of MRI. Our other option had been to nerve, but we decided to do the MRI first. And based on those results nerving was no longer an option. Had I not done an MRI I probably would have continued to run my gelding, and I can only imagine what kind of a wreck we'd have had if he broke down during a run.
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CJE
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2018-05-17 5:32 PM (#7396563 - in reply to #7396545)
Subject: RE: Cyst navicular bursa



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Jenbabe - 2018-05-16 2:26 PM

Herbie - 2018-05-17 11:41 AM

Jenbabe - 2018-05-16 2:15 PM
pippy - 2018-05-15 1:58 PM Like someone else mentioned, an MRI will confirm everything you want to know and is critical when wanting to know how much the DDFT is involved.
Yes, get an MRI done. My gelding was sore, but still running hard. We'd gone the route of injections, shoeing changes, anti-inflammatories, etc. I ran him on a Sunday, and he clocked. Had an MRI done the following Tuesday and he was retired that day. His navicular bone was sawing through his flexor tendon. I know that it is expensive, but in the long run it can save you money by allowing you to pinpoint the treatment, or to quit spending money if there is nothing that can be done.

This! ^^^^  Not to mention avoid the heartache of a catastrophic breakdown or injury.  Without knowing how that cyst is affecting the soft tissue, IMO you're putting both yourself and horse in a huge amount of danger without knowing fully what's going on inide the hoof capsule. 

I agree. I'm so glad we went the route of MRI. Our other option had been to nerve, but we decided to do the MRI first. And based on those results nerving was no longer an option. Had I not done an MRI I probably would have continued to run my gelding, and I can only imagine what kind of a wreck we'd have had if he broke down during a run.

That was basically what I was told.........Nerving could prove catastrophic......retiring to the broodmare life.
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