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Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats
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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2018-10-02 5:03 PM (#7409449)
Subject: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



Saint Stacey


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So...the latest political frenzy is over the Trump administration saying that all diplomats here for foreign countries must be married (whether gay or straight) in order for their significant other to be issued a visa. Straight couples are only given visas for a spouse. Gay couples were given visas to their partners. People are going nuts, saying it isn’t fair to gay couples because only 12% of the countries recognize gay marriage and when this people go home after getting married here, they could be prosecuted by the country they hail from. So here were my questions:

So....a diplomatic heterosexual couple must be married for the significant other to be issued a visa, correct?
A diplomatic gay couple is issued a visa for the significant other based on the diplomats word that said person is their SO, correct?
Gay couples in the USA were upset they couldn’t be married. That was changed so now USA gay couples can be married, correct?
So...now the Trump Administration is saying that since here in the USA, gay marriage is legal. Because of that, we think the gay couples should follow the same rules as straight couples, correct?
But...now the argument is that these diplomats might be prosecuted if they get married here because it might not be legal in their country, so they shouldn’t have to get married. Besides, telling them to get married isn’t giving the equality because of the possible prosecution, correct?

So...if said diplomat came to this country, and obtained a visa for their “special friend”, wouldn’t the government of the country they hail from already be aware they are gay? And if being gay is such a crime...wouldn’t they have already been taken care of a long time ago by their said government? Or are all these diplomatic gay couples flying under the radar of their governments?

Edited by SKM 2018-10-02 5:07 PM
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2018-10-02 5:19 PM (#7409452 - in reply to #7409449)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats


Military family

Champ


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I wish you'd stop reasoning. That's unfair, you're racist!

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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2018-10-02 5:27 PM (#7409453 - in reply to #7409452)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



Saint Stacey


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OregonBR - 2018-10-02 4:19 PM

I wish you'd stop reasoning. That's unfair, you're racist!


Right? Having common sense is very hard anymore. Where I posted my questions has nothing but crickets so far.
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2018-10-02 5:44 PM (#7409454 - in reply to #7409453)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



A Somebody to Everybody


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SKM - 2018-10-02 5:27 PM
OregonBR - 2018-10-02 4:19 PM I wish you'd stop reasoning. That's unfair, you're racist!
Right? Having common sense is very hard anymore. Where I posted my questions has nothing but crickets so far.

LOL, Since I dont know much/anything about how the gays rights/laws works I dont know the answer to your questions either, I really doubt many will have the answer for you on here about gays, but maybe we will all be suprise and someone will know your questions, you never know. So I bet thats why you are hearing crickets 
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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2018-10-02 6:30 PM (#7409456 - in reply to #7409454)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



Saint Stacey


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Southtxponygirl - 2018-10-02 4:44 PM

SKM - 2018-10-02 5:27 PM
OregonBR - 2018-10-02 4:19 PM I wish you'd stop reasoning. That's unfair, you're racist!
Right? Having common sense is very hard anymore. Where I posted my questions has nothing but crickets so far.

LOL, Since I dont know much/anything about how the gays rights/laws works I dont know the answer to your questions either, I really doubt many will have the answer for you on here about gays, but maybe we will all be suprise and someone will know your questions, you never know. So I bet thats why you are hearing crickets 

I just don’t get how a group can scream for equal rights, then we they are given what they want, they say it’s not equality because they are afraid to be married.

I’m not sure how you can have your cake and eat it too.
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2018-10-02 6:52 PM (#7409458 - in reply to #7409456)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



A Somebody to Everybody


Posts: 36892
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SKM - 2018-10-02 6:30 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2018-10-02 4:44 PM
SKM - 2018-10-02 5:27 PM
OregonBR - 2018-10-02 4:19 PM I wish you'd stop reasoning. That's unfair, you're racist!
Right? Having common sense is very hard anymore. Where I posted my questions has nothing but crickets so far.
LOL, Since I dont know much/anything about how the gays rights/laws works I dont know the answer to your questions either, I really doubt many will have the answer for you on here about gays, but maybe we will all be suprise and someone will know your questions, you never know. So I bet thats why you are hearing crickets 
I just don’t get how a group can scream for equal rights, then we they are given what they want, they say it’s not equality because they are afraid to be married. I’m not sure how you can have your cake and eat it too.

Nothing makes much sense now adays  
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1DSoon
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2018-10-02 7:07 PM (#7409459 - in reply to #7409449)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats





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Location: Not Where I Want to Be
 I think it's a genious move. 


They want to be equal, by Gawd let's be equal. 



 
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Frodo
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2018-10-03 9:53 AM (#7409491 - in reply to #7409459)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats


"Heck's Coming With Me"


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1DSoon - 2018-10-02 7:07 PM  I think it's a genious move. 





They want to be equal, by Gawd let's be equal. 






 

Had a little trouble wrapping my ole head around that issue but decided you are correct.

 
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BamaCanChaser
Reg. Nov 2012
Posted 2018-10-03 11:20 AM (#7409498 - in reply to #7409449)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



Expert


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My thoughts were who cares? Why change it now? Convenient timing maybe? The administration desperately needs to get the media circus off of this Kavanaugh thing. Have to give them something else to be outraged over. Smart strategy... if it works.
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2018-10-03 1:26 PM (#7409509 - in reply to #7409498)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats


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Champ


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BamaCanChaser - 2018-10-03 9:20 AM

My thoughts were who cares? Why change it now? Convenient timing maybe? The administration desperately needs to get the media circus off of this Kavanaugh thing. Have to give them something else to be outraged over. Smart strategy... if it works.

When they do "get off it" it will some other POS topic that is on their agenda. There are SO MANY positive things that have happened in the last 2 years they will not report on. Because (GASP) Trump is such a ________________ (fill in the blank with your slam here).
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Runaway
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2018-10-05 10:06 AM (#7409650 - in reply to #7409449)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



Sorry I don't have any advice


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What they were doing to begin with was unfair, letting 'partners' in for Gay couples and not letting Straight couples 'partners' in. 

What has been done, is it has been corrected correctly, LOL.




 
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GLP
Reg. Oct 2013
Posted 2018-10-05 10:14 AM (#7409651 - in reply to #7409650)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats


I just read the headlines


Posts: 3868
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Ha! Knew this would happen eventually! Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.
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Just Plain Lucky
Reg. Jun 2008
Posted 2018-10-06 7:11 AM (#7409745 - in reply to #7409449)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



Thread Killer


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I know better than to reply to this post - but considering I'm rarely on here anymore and will be fine leaving and not logging on again, I'm doing it anyway.

When making the decision to come out to my parents, I planned for the worst case scenario. Lots of people simply lived double lives in the past (and still do). I decided that honestly was the best policy. There's no real way for me to do that to myself or my family.

I made sure my finances were in order, I considered therapy in case I lost their emotional support, and I entertained the possibility of completely losing a really great friendship with my two favorite people - my mom and dad. My dad in particular was very vocally against LBQT and used much the same logic and language in the replies of this thread, plus regular use of some pretty horrible slurs. Needless to say, I was fearful of his reaction the most.

Turns out I had very little to worry about. My parents accepted me and if anything, our relationship is even stronger than before. My dad has also toned it down considerably (it's a work in progress and I'd never expect immediate perfection).

Might seem overly dramatic, but it is a sad reality for MANY LBQT people and it is really not a joke. Homosexuality is still criminalized in many countries, so I understand the fear of the Trump Administration's policy. I understand why it feels like hypocrisy from LBQT people/supporters. I also understand how the policy as is creates a feeling of unfairness. I can't really offer much more than acknowledgment there.

This is one of those, "Walk a mile in someone else's shoes" kind of things. If you aren't LBQT, you just aren't going to get it - unless you want to go deeper and read/listen to LBQT people share their thoughts and personal experiences.




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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2018-10-06 7:53 AM (#7409748 - in reply to #7409745)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



Saint Stacey


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Just Plain Lucky - 2018-10-06 6:11 AM

I know better than to reply to this post - but considering I'm rarely on here anymore and will be fine leaving and not logging on again, I'm doing it anyway.

When making the decision to come out to my parents, I planned for the worst case scenario. Lots of people simply lived double lives in the past (and still do). I decided that honestly was the best policy. There's no real way for me to do that to myself or my family.

I made sure my finances were in order, I considered therapy in case I lost their emotional support, and I entertained the possibility of completely losing a really great friendship with my two favorite people - my mom and dad. My dad in particular was very vocally against LBQT and used much the same logic and language in the replies of this thread, plus regular use of some pretty horrible slurs. Needless to say, I was fearful of his reaction the most.

Turns out I had very little to worry about. My parents accepted me and if anything, our relationship is even stronger than before. My dad has also toned it down considerably (it's a work in progress and I'd never expect immediate perfection).

Might seem overly dramatic, but it is a sad reality for MANY LBQT people and it is really not a joke. Homosexuality is still criminalized in many countries, so I understand the fear of the Trump Administration's policy. I understand why it feels like hypocrisy from LBQT people/supporters. I also understand how the policy as is creates a feeling of unfairness. I can't really offer much more than acknowledgment there.

This is one of those, "Walk a mile in someone else's shoes" kind of things. If you aren't LBQT, you just aren't going to get it - unless you want to go deeper and read/listen to LBQT people share their thoughts and personal experiences.





Thank you for your reply. I really do appreciate hearing another perspective.

My question though that no one seems to be able to answer is that if only straight diplomats are given visas’s for spouses, and a gay diplomat is given a visa for a same sex non relative, isn’t that already telling the country they hail from that they are obviously gay?

I’m really glad you didn’t lose your family over coming out and that you can finally live your life honestly. I do believe everyone deserves to be happy.
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Just Plain Lucky
Reg. Jun 2008
Posted 2018-10-06 9:27 AM (#7409752 - in reply to #7409748)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



Thread Killer


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SKM - 2018-10-06 8:53 AM

Just Plain Lucky - 2018-10-06 6:11 AM

I know better than to reply to this post - but considering I'm rarely on here anymore and will be fine leaving and not logging on again, I'm doing it anyway.

When making the decision to come out to my parents, I planned for the worst case scenario. Lots of people simply lived double lives in the past (and still do). I decided that honestly was the best policy. There's no real way for me to do that to myself or my family.

I made sure my finances were in order, I considered therapy in case I lost their emotional support, and I entertained the possibility of completely losing a really great friendship with my two favorite people - my mom and dad. My dad in particular was very vocally against LBQT and used much the same logic and language in the replies of this thread, plus regular use of some pretty horrible slurs. Needless to say, I was fearful of his reaction the most.

Turns out I had very little to worry about. My parents accepted me and if anything, our relationship is even stronger than before. My dad has also toned it down considerably (it's a work in progress and I'd never expect immediate perfection).

Might seem overly dramatic, but it is a sad reality for MANY LBQT people and it is really not a joke. Homosexuality is still criminalized in many countries, so I understand the fear of the Trump Administration's policy. I understand why it feels like hypocrisy from LBQT people/supporters. I also understand how the policy as is creates a feeling of unfairness. I can't really offer much more than acknowledgment there.

This is one of those, "Walk a mile in someone else's shoes" kind of things. If you aren't LBQT, you just aren't going to get it - unless you want to go deeper and read/listen to LBQT people share their thoughts and personal experiences.





Thank you for your reply. I really do appreciate hearing another perspective.

My question though that no one seems to be able to answer is that if only straight diplomats are given visas’s for spouses, and a gay diplomat is given a visa for a same sex non relative, isn’t that already telling the country they hail from that they are obviously gay?

I’m really glad you didn’t lose your family over coming out and that you can finally live your life honestly. I do believe everyone deserves to be happy.

Sorry, I meant to answer your question but got kind of carried away with my own experience.

I'll have to look into this a little more BUT, I can take a shot in the dark here. some diplomats may be using the current system to:

1. Help diplomats from countries where homosexuality is criminalized escape from persecution.
2. LBQT diplomats may be using it to deliberately out themselves for the purpose of campaigning against criminalization/for equal rights from the safety of the US. They probably have intentions of returning to their home country (family/campaign). Some countries can only legally persecute when an actual marriage is obtained. An actual legit marriage might have them arrested on arrival (it is proof). The sentence could be death or life in prison in some countries.
3. LBQT or not from countries where LBQT are not criminalized and are generally accepted - and who are just trying to get here sooner.

I care about LBQT people in the US and the world over, so 1 and 2 are fine by me. 3 could be abused heavily, so I think policy makers should definitely look into it.

Edited by Just Plain Lucky 2018-10-06 9:28 AM
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1DSoon
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2018-10-06 9:43 AM (#7409753 - in reply to #7409752)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats





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Location: Not Where I Want to Be
Just Plain Lucky - 2018-10-06 10:27 AM
SKM - 2018-10-06 8:53 AM
Just Plain Lucky - 2018-10-06 6:11 AM I know better than to reply to this post - but considering I'm rarely on here anymore and will be fine leaving and not logging on again, I'm doing it anyway. When making the decision to come out to my parents, I planned for the worst case scenario. Lots of people simply lived double lives in the past (and still do). I decided that honestly was the best policy. There's no real way for me to do that to myself or my family. I made sure my finances were in order, I considered therapy in case I lost their emotional support, and I entertained the possibility of completely losing a really great friendship with my two favorite people - my mom and dad. My dad in particular was very vocally against LBQT and used much the same logic and language in the replies of this thread, plus regular use of some pretty horrible slurs. Needless to say, I was fearful of his reaction the most. Turns out I had very little to worry about. My parents accepted me and if anything, our relationship is even stronger than before. My dad has also toned it down considerably (it's a work in progress and I'd never expect immediate perfection). Might seem overly dramatic, but it is a sad reality for MANY LBQT people and it is really not a joke. Homosexuality is still criminalized in many countries, so I understand the fear of the Trump Administration's policy. I understand why it feels like hypocrisy from LBQT people/supporters. I also understand how the policy as is creates a feeling of unfairness. I can't really offer much more than acknowledgment there. This is one of those, "Walk a mile in someone else's shoes" kind of things. If you aren't LBQT, you just aren't going to get it - unless you want to go deeper and read/listen to LBQT people share their thoughts and personal experiences.
Thank you for your reply. I really do appreciate hearing another perspective. My question though that no one seems to be able to answer is that if only straight diplomats are given visas’s for spouses, and a gay diplomat is given a visa for a same sex non relative, isn’t that already telling the country they hail from that they are obviously gay? I’m really glad you didn’t lose your family over coming out and that you can finally live your life honestly. I do believe everyone deserves to be happy.
Sorry, I meant to answer your question but got kind of carried away with my own experience. I'll have to look into this a little more BUT, I can take a shot in the dark here. some diplomats may be using the current system to: 1. Help diplomats from countries where homosexuality is criminalized escape from persecution. 2. LBQT diplomats may be using it to deliberately out themselves for the purpose of campaigning against criminalization/for equal rights from the safety of the US. They probably have intentions of returning to their home country (family/campaign). Some countries can only legally persecute when an actual marriage is obtained. An actual legit marriage might have them arrested on arrival (it is proof). The sentence could be death or life in prison in some countries. 3. LBQT or not from countries where LBQT are not criminalized and are generally accepted - and who are just trying to get here sooner. I care about LBQT people in the US and the world over, so 1 and 2 are fine by me. 3 could be abused heavily, so I think policy makers should definitely look into it.

Rules are rules 

equality, ain't it a beach? 


 
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janjan1
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2018-10-09 8:22 AM (#7409947 - in reply to #7409449)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats


Military family

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Well as a mother of a married gay daughter, and we love her wife dearly, I think that EVERYONE should be equal here in the USA. What happens outside of MY area, my family etc, is actually none of my business. JMHO
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geronabean
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2018-10-09 11:44 AM (#7409973 - in reply to #7409449)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



Queen Bean of Ponyland


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WELCOME TO EQUALITY.
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Tbred
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2018-10-15 2:15 PM (#7410575 - in reply to #7409449)
Subject: RE: Trump admin requiring marriage for gay diplomats



BHW New Catch of the Day


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So these dipolmats are from countries blah blah blah where gay marriage isn't legal right?  But since they were able to bring their significant others with them, being gay itself isn't illegal from country blah blah blah.  So, when they go back to blah blah blah, it just shouldn't be recognized as a "legal marriage" (if they do comply and get married in the states).
If they feel they'd be persecuted........then it sounds like country blah blah blah would also persecute them for being gay right?
So how did their SO's get visa's? 

 
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