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Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do
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Meep.Meep
Reg. Jun 2017
Posted 2018-10-14 9:03 PM (#7410528 - in reply to #7410518)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do


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TyE - 2018-10-14 8:17 PM

One thing that is so obvious on this post is that for the most part(no blanket statement) pro-vaxxers are condescending and have a superiority type of attitude and the ones that are encouraging research do not. Even Suerue has not come across as a person with an attitude. I cannot stand the condescending attitude. Drives me nuts! This is what is wrong with people! We can have different opinions and beliefs without the attitudes and the need to act superior. Just because some of you have letters behind your name doesn't mean that you are the end all be all on this subject or any subject. Why belittle someone? There is ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO KNOW MORE THAN YOU ALL OR ME. The Golden Rule is obsolete. Showing mercy and kindness is obsolete. Compassion is gone. You can encourage someone to learn about your opinion without the superior attitude. Someone asked an honest question because they wanted numerous opinions, not posters that would come on and belittle others because their opinions are different than the norm. SMH!!!

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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2018-10-14 10:56 PM (#7410531 - in reply to #7410518)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do



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TyE - 2018-10-14 8:17 PM

One thing that is so obvious on this post is that for the most part(no blanket statement) pro-vaxxers are condescending and have a superiority type of attitude and the ones that are encouraging research do not. Even Suerue has not come across as a person with an attitude. I cannot stand the condescending attitude. Drives me nuts! This is what is wrong with people! We can have different opinions and beliefs without the attitudes and the need to act superior. Just because some of you have letters behind your name doesn't mean that you are the end all be all on this subject or any subject. Why belittle someone? There is ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO KNOW MORE THAN YOU ALL OR ME. The Golden Rule is obsolete. Showing mercy and kindness is obsolete. Compassion is gone. You can encourage someone to learn about your opinion without the superior attitude. Someone asked an honest question because they wanted numerous opinions, not posters that would come on and belittle others because their opinions are different than the norm. SMH!!!

That’s a good fall-back position when you are engaged in a hotly debated topic. If you can’t win on the facts, or when someone exposes the flaws, you can always call your opponent “condescending”. If your refusal to counter with sound facts results in a feeling that “drives me nuts”, I can understand. What drives me nuts is seeing an unvaccinated child die from whooping cough or measles, or people who refuse to give rabies vaccines, or outbreaks of preventable diseases because of a concentrated cult of antivaxxers.

Yes, I do have some “letters behind my name”. I worked hard for those letters and devoted my life to living up to the responsibility that goes along with it. I also have nearly 40 years of experience dealing with sick people. You have anecdotes and Facebook. If you decide that I am devoid of “mercy, compassion, and kindness”, then tell that to the people on this board to whom I have gladly given my time and guidance when called upon. There have been times that I’ve made a big difference to quite a few.

I have absolutely nothing to gain by chiming in on topics like this.
The only thing I get out of it is the satisfaction that I might have made a difference in someone’s life. Contrary to what you might believe, this is not some ego trip for me.

If you wish to imply that I’m not abiding by the “Golden Rule”, then on the contrary, I beg to differ.
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EagleJess
Reg. Feb 2017
Posted 2018-10-15 7:58 AM (#7410536 - in reply to #7410531)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do



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Bear - 2018-10-14 10:56 PM

TyE - 2018-10-14 8:17 PM

One thing that is so obvious on this post is that for the most part(no blanket statement) pro-vaxxers are condescending and have a superiority type of attitude and the ones that are encouraging research do not. Even Suerue has not come across as a person with an attitude. I cannot stand the condescending attitude. Drives me nuts! This is what is wrong with people! We can have different opinions and beliefs without the attitudes and the need to act superior. Just because some of you have letters behind your name doesn't mean that you are the end all be all on this subject or any subject. Why belittle someone? There is ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO KNOW MORE THAN YOU ALL OR ME. The Golden Rule is obsolete. Showing mercy and kindness is obsolete. Compassion is gone. You can encourage someone to learn about your opinion without the superior attitude. Someone asked an honest question because they wanted numerous opinions, not posters that would come on and belittle others because their opinions are different than the norm. SMH!!!

That’s a good fall-back position when you are engaged in a hotly debated topic. If you can’t win on the facts, or when someone exposes the flaws, you can always call your opponent “condescending”. If your refusal to counter with sound facts results in a feeling that “drives me nuts”, I can understand. What drives me nuts is seeing an unvaccinated child die from whooping cough or measles, or people who refuse to give rabies vaccines, or outbreaks of preventable diseases because of a concentrated cult of antivaxxers.

Yes, I do have some “letters behind my name”. I worked hard for those letters and devoted my life to living up to the responsibility that goes along with it. I also have nearly 40 years of experience dealing with sick people. You have anecdotes and Facebook. If you decide that I am devoid of “mercy, compassion, and kindness”, then tell that to the people on this board to whom I have gladly given my time and guidance when called upon. There have been times that I’ve made a big difference to quite a few.

I have absolutely nothing to gain by chiming in on topics like this.
The only thing I get out of it is the satisfaction that I might have made a difference in someone’s life. Contrary to what you might believe, this is not some ego trip for me.

If you wish to imply that I’m not abiding by the “Golden Rule”, then on the contrary, I beg to differ.

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you! I am so tired in recent months of when I back up my opinion of something with facts and then ask the other party about their facts, I get attacked with name calling and belittling of my education. I am actually an open minded person and love having educated conversations on things I don't agree on or am on the fence about, but the key word there is educated with facts, not speculations or feelings.

I am also tired of this mindset that people who have more experience know nothing despite their education or experience but 100% right Dr. Google knows all. I am on this forum to learn as I am sure 99% of people here have more experience than I do with barrels. I take my car to the mechanic because there is no way I can work on it. Why not listen to people, like Bear, who have years and years of experience. Perhaps, the "attitude" that is being mentioned is actually passion from someone who has seen the other side of things and can see how horribly wrong things can go. I swore I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but after being terrified by what I was reading from my own experience, I finally gave in.

Also, while I do have letters after my name, if those letters taught me anything its how absolutely little I know. My research questions lead to more questions and so on and there is no way I can answer all of them. My knowledge is a speck in the scheme of things, which is why I constantly keep up with new information coming out and seek out new information.


Edited by EagleJess 2018-10-15 12:59 PM
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NJJ
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2018-10-15 9:09 AM (#7410538 - in reply to #7410536)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do


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EagleJess - 2018-10-15 7:58 AM
Bear - 2018-10-14 10:56 PM
TyE - 2018-10-14 8:17 PM One thing that is so obvious on this post is that for the most part(no blanket statement) pro-vaxxers are condescending and have a superiority type of attitude and the ones that are encouraging research do not. Even Suerue has not come across as a person with an attitude. I cannot stand the condescending attitude. Drives me nuts! This is what is wrong with people! We can have different opinions and beliefs without the attitudes and the need to act superior. Just because some of you have letters behind your name doesn't mean that you are the end all be all on this subject or any subject. Why belittle someone? There is ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO KNOW MORE THAN YOU ALL OR ME. The Golden Rule is obsolete. Showing mercy and kindness is obsolete. Compassion is gone. You can encourage someone to learn about your opinion without the superior attitude. Someone asked an honest question because they wanted numerous opinions, not posters that would come on and belittle others because their opinions are different than the norm. SMH!!!
That’s a good fall-back position when you are engaged in a hotly debated topic. If you can’t win on the facts, or when someone exposes the flaws, you can always call your opponent “condescending”. If your refusal to counter with sound facts results in a feeling that “drives me nuts”, I can understand. What drives me nuts is seeing an unvaccinated child die from whooping cough or measles, or people who refuse to give rabies vaccines, or outbreaks of preventable diseases because of a concentrated cult of antivaxxers. Yes, I do have some “letters behind my name”. I worked hard for those letters and devoted my life to living up to the responsibility that goes along with it. I also have nearly 40 years of experience dealing with sick people. You have anecdotes and Facebook. If you decide that I am devoid of “mercy, compassion, and kindness”, then tell that to the people on this board to whom I have gladly given my time and guidance when called upon. There have been times that I’ve made a big difference to quite a few. I have absolutely nothing to gain by chiming in on topics like this. The only thing I get out of it is the satisfaction that I might have made a difference in someone’s life. Contrary to what you might believe, this is not some ego trip for me. If you wish to imply that I’m not abiding by the “Golden Rule”, then on the contrary, I beg to differ.
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you! I am so tired in recent months of when I back up my opinion of something with facts and then ask the other party about their facts, I get attacked with name calling and belittling of my education. I am actually an open minded person and love having educated conversations on things I don't agree on or am on the fence about, but the key word there is educated with facts, not speculations or feelings. I am also tired of this mindset that people who have more experience know nothing despite their education or experience but 100% right Dr. Google knows all. I am on this forum to learn as I am sure 99% of people here have more experience than I do with barrels. I take my car to the mechanic because there is no way I can work on it. Why not listen to people, like Bear, who have years and years of experience. Perhaps, the "attitude" that is being mentioned is actually passion from someone who has seen the other side of things and can see how horribly wrong things can go. I swore I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but after being terrified by what I was reading from my own experience, I finally gave in. Also, while I do have letters after my name, if anything those letters taught me anything its how absolutely little I know. My research questions lead to more questions and so on and there is no way I can answer all of them. My knowledge is a speck in the scheme of things, which is why I constantly keep up with new information coming out and seek out new information.

 I have always wondered if some people have mirrors? Talk about condescending ...... TyE should certainly re-read HER/HIS post ......
 
We are very lucky to have Dr. Scott (shhh....don't tell him I said that) here on BHW. I know for a fact that many of us either through phone calls or messages have gained valuable medical insight by talking to him. I will take his "facts" (any day) that are supported by his education, training and years of actual service as a doctor over made-up and false facts promoted here by some ..... I am still waiting for a response to my questions from the previous page.

 
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TyE
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2018-10-15 9:25 AM (#7410541 - in reply to #7410536)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do



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EagleJess - 2018-10-15 7:58 AM
Bear - 2018-10-14 10:56 PM
TyE - 2018-10-14 8:17 PM One thing that is so obvious on this post is that for the most part(no blanket statement) pro-vaxxers are condescending and have a superiority type of attitude and the ones that are encouraging research do not. Even Suerue has not come across as a person with an attitude. I cannot stand the condescending attitude. Drives me nuts! This is what is wrong with people! We can have different opinions and beliefs without the attitudes and the need to act superior. Just because some of you have letters behind your name doesn't mean that you are the end all be all on this subject or any subject. Why belittle someone? There is ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO KNOW MORE THAN YOU ALL OR ME. The Golden Rule is obsolete. Showing mercy and kindness is obsolete. Compassion is gone. You can encourage someone to learn about your opinion without the superior attitude. Someone asked an honest question because they wanted numerous opinions, not posters that would come on and belittle others because their opinions are different than the norm. SMH!!!
That’s a good fall-back position when you are engaged in a hotly debated topic. If you can’t win on the facts, or when someone exposes the flaws, you can always call your opponent “condescending”. If your refusal to counter with sound facts results in a feeling that “drives me nuts”, I can understand. What drives me nuts is seeing an unvaccinated child die from whooping cough or measles, or people who refuse to give rabies vaccines, or outbreaks of preventable diseases because of a concentrated cult of antivaxxers. Yes, I do have some “letters behind my name”. I worked hard for those letters and devoted my life to living up to the responsibility that goes along with it. I also have nearly 40 years of experience dealing with sick people. You have anecdotes and Facebook. If you decide that I am devoid of “mercy, compassion, and kindness”, then tell that to the people on this board to whom I have gladly given my time and guidance when called upon. There have been times that I’ve made a big difference to quite a few. I have absolutely nothing to gain by chiming in on topics like this. The only thing I get out of it is the satisfaction that I might have made a difference in someone’s life. Contrary to what you might believe, this is not some ego trip for me. If you wish to imply that I’m not abiding by the “Golden Rule”, then on the contrary, I beg to differ.
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you! I am so tired in recent months of when I back up my opinion of something with facts and then ask the other party about their facts, I get attacked with name calling and belittling of my education. I am actually an open minded person and love having educated conversations on things I don't agree on or am on the fence about, but the key word there is educated with facts, not speculations or feelings. I am also tired of this mindset that people who have more experience know nothing despite their education or experience but 100% right Dr. Google knows all. I am on this forum to learn as I am sure 99% of people here have more experience than I do with barrels. I take my car to the mechanic because there is no way I can work on it. Why not listen to people, like Bear, who have years and years of experience. Perhaps, the "attitude" that is being mentioned is actually passion from someone who has seen the other side of things and can see how horribly wrong things can go. I swore I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but after being terrified by what I was reading from my own experience, I finally gave in. Also, while I do have letters after my name, if anything those letters taught me anything its how absolutely little I know. My research questions lead to more questions and so on and there is no way I can answer all of them. My knowledge is a speck in the scheme of things, which is why I constantly keep up with new information coming out and seek out new information.
 I am not in on any debate.  I appreciate facts that both sides have presented. I am  posting about what I see how certain mindsets try to act superior when they think they have the upper hand in the conversation.  I did say this was not a blanket statement to every post or person in this thread.  Once again, I do appreciate facts. I do not appreciate condescending attitudes of superiority.  I am not talking about how a person has responded to other people on other threads or in your "real life" conversations... I rarely read threads on BHW anymore, so I wouldn't know of past debates.  I am sure most posters on BHW have provided great information in a kind manner.  I am responding to this thread and what I see on this one.  This thread started out  just fine, but went south when the fact giving was laced with condenscending remarks toward the poster with the anti vax opinion and made to look as if they were delusional.   

There were several things I learned on this thread, and a few that stood out to me:  Dr's don't read the Pharmaceutical Companies information about their products, Bear, who is a Dr. is on the fence about the HPV  vaccine for men, the Nurse Practioner has read the vaccine inserts but found nothing in them that would cause concern, certain gene's in people can respond differently to vaccines and that can be life altering.  This is what stood out to me, as I have read most of the other facts presented from both sides.  I do know this; There are brilliant minds on both sides of this debate that are researching and trying to figure it out.  It will definitely be interesting to see where this all lands in the coming years. We will all probably be shocked. 


Edited by TyE 2018-10-15 9:29 AM
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Suerue2018
Reg. Aug 2018
Posted 2018-10-15 9:33 AM (#7410543 - in reply to #7410473)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do


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NJJ - 2018-10-14 9:32 AM

Suerue2018 - 2018-10-13 10:45 PM “It can no longer be denied that vaccines cause Autism.
I have read back through all of your nonsense "cut & paste", of which most can be soundly disproved .....
My question to you is ..... how would you feel if your unvaccinated child were to be severely affected by measles, mumps, whooping cough, meningitis, polio, etc. which includes brain damage, deafness, and EVEN death  Diseases that were mostly eradicated BEFORE irresponsible "experts" falsely started the anti-vaxer craze....... ...... because YOU made the decision for this child to NOT be vaccinated!
OR
 
Your unvaccinated child KILLED a baby that was too young to be vaccinated or a child (or person of any age) who can't be immunized for medical (immune) reasons ......

 

Here's just one example, there have been 2 measles deaths since 2000 and 127 reported MMR vaccine deaths since 2000. I believe shedding poses as more of a danger to others than those not vaccinated. Most adults are not up to date on all 73 vaccines so do you think they are dangering others too? Sorry I'm just now seeing your comment to give my view.
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TyE
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2018-10-15 9:33 AM (#7410544 - in reply to #7410538)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do



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NJJ - 2018-10-15 9:09 AM
EagleJess - 2018-10-15 7:58 AM
Bear - 2018-10-14 10:56 PM
TyE - 2018-10-14 8:17 PM One thing that is so obvious on this post is that for the most part(no blanket statement) pro-vaxxers are condescending and have a superiority type of attitude and the ones that are encouraging research do not. Even Suerue has not come across as a person with an attitude. I cannot stand the condescending attitude. Drives me nuts! This is what is wrong with people! We can have different opinions and beliefs without the attitudes and the need to act superior. Just because some of you have letters behind your name doesn't mean that you are the end all be all on this subject or any subject. Why belittle someone? There is ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO KNOW MORE THAN YOU ALL OR ME. The Golden Rule is obsolete. Showing mercy and kindness is obsolete. Compassion is gone. You can encourage someone to learn about your opinion without the superior attitude. Someone asked an honest question because they wanted numerous opinions, not posters that would come on and belittle others because their opinions are different than the norm. SMH!!!
That’s a good fall-back position when you are engaged in a hotly debated topic. If you can’t win on the facts, or when someone exposes the flaws, you can always call your opponent “condescending”. If your refusal to counter with sound facts results in a feeling that “drives me nuts”, I can understand. What drives me nuts is seeing an unvaccinated child die from whooping cough or measles, or people who refuse to give rabies vaccines, or outbreaks of preventable diseases because of a concentrated cult of antivaxxers. Yes, I do have some “letters behind my name”. I worked hard for those letters and devoted my life to living up to the responsibility that goes along with it. I also have nearly 40 years of experience dealing with sick people. You have anecdotes and Facebook. If you decide that I am devoid of “mercy, compassion, and kindness”, then tell that to the people on this board to whom I have gladly given my time and guidance when called upon. There have been times that I’ve made a big difference to quite a few. I have absolutely nothing to gain by chiming in on topics like this. The only thing I get out of it is the satisfaction that I might have made a difference in someone’s life. Contrary to what you might believe, this is not some ego trip for me. If you wish to imply that I’m not abiding by the “Golden Rule”, then on the contrary, I beg to differ.
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you! I am so tired in recent months of when I back up my opinion of something with facts and then ask the other party about their facts, I get attacked with name calling and belittling of my education. I am actually an open minded person and love having educated conversations on things I don't agree on or am on the fence about, but the key word there is educated with facts, not speculations or feelings. I am also tired of this mindset that people who have more experience know nothing despite their education or experience but 100% right Dr. Google knows all. I am on this forum to learn as I am sure 99% of people here have more experience than I do with barrels. I take my car to the mechanic because there is no way I can work on it. Why not listen to people, like Bear, who have years and years of experience. Perhaps, the "attitude" that is being mentioned is actually passion from someone who has seen the other side of things and can see how horribly wrong things can go. I swore I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but after being terrified by what I was reading from my own experience, I finally gave in. Also, while I do have letters after my name, if anything those letters taught me anything its how absolutely little I know. My research questions lead to more questions and so on and there is no way I can answer all of them. My knowledge is a speck in the scheme of things, which is why I constantly keep up with new information coming out and seek out new information.
 I have always wondered if some people have mirrors? Talk about condescending ...... TyE should certainly re-read HER/HIS post ......

 

We are very lucky to have Dr. Scott (shhh....don't tell him I said that) here on BHW. I know for a fact that many of us either through phone calls or messages have gained valuable medical insight by talking to him. I will take his "facts" (any day) that are supported by his education, training and years of actual service as a doctor over made-up and false facts promoted here by some ..... I am still waiting for a response to my questions from the previous page.


 



I will definitely re-read my post's and apologize if necessary. I am not sure what your questions were? Were they directed at me?   
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Gunner11
Reg. Mar 2011
Posted 2018-10-15 9:42 AM (#7410545 - in reply to #7410538)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do



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NJJ - 2018-10-15 9:09 AM

EagleJess - 2018-10-15 7:58 AM
Bear - 2018-10-14 10:56 PM
TyE - 2018-10-14 8:17 PM One thing that is so obvious on this post is that for the most part(no blanket statement) pro-vaxxers are condescending and have a superiority type of attitude and the ones that are encouraging research do not. Even Suerue has not come across as a person with an attitude. I cannot stand the condescending attitude. Drives me nuts! This is what is wrong with people! We can have different opinions and beliefs without the attitudes and the need to act superior. Just because some of you have letters behind your name doesn't mean that you are the end all be all on this subject or any subject. Why belittle someone? There is ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO KNOW MORE THAN YOU ALL OR ME. The Golden Rule is obsolete. Showing mercy and kindness is obsolete. Compassion is gone. You can encourage someone to learn about your opinion without the superior attitude. Someone asked an honest question because they wanted numerous opinions, not posters that would come on and belittle others because their opinions are different than the norm. SMH!!!
That’s a good fall-back position when you are engaged in a hotly debated topic. If you can’t win on the facts, or when someone exposes the flaws, you can always call your opponent “condescending”. If your refusal to counter with sound facts results in a feeling that “drives me nuts”, I can understand. What drives me nuts is seeing an unvaccinated child die from whooping cough or measles, or people who refuse to give rabies vaccines, or outbreaks of preventable diseases because of a concentrated cult of antivaxxers. Yes, I do have some “letters behind my name”. I worked hard for those letters and devoted my life to living up to the responsibility that goes along with it. I also have nearly 40 years of experience dealing with sick people. You have anecdotes and Facebook. If you decide that I am devoid of “mercy, compassion, and kindness”, then tell that to the people on this board to whom I have gladly given my time and guidance when called upon. There have been times that I’ve made a big difference to quite a few. I have absolutely nothing to gain by chiming in on topics like this. The only thing I get out of it is the satisfaction that I might have made a difference in someone’s life. Contrary to what you might believe, this is not some ego trip for me. If you wish to imply that I’m not abiding by the “Golden Rule”, then on the contrary, I beg to differ.
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you! I am so tired in recent months of when I back up my opinion of something with facts and then ask the other party about their facts, I get attacked with name calling and belittling of my education. I am actually an open minded person and love having educated conversations on things I don't agree on or am on the fence about, but the key word there is educated with facts, not speculations or feelings. I am also tired of this mindset that people who have more experience know nothing despite their education or experience but 100% right Dr. Google knows all. I am on this forum to learn as I am sure 99% of people here have more experience than I do with barrels. I take my car to the mechanic because there is no way I can work on it. Why not listen to people, like Bear, who have years and years of experience. Perhaps, the "attitude" that is being mentioned is actually passion from someone who has seen the other side of things and can see how horribly wrong things can go. I swore I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but after being terrified by what I was reading from my own experience, I finally gave in. Also, while I do have letters after my name, if anything those letters taught me anything its how absolutely little I know. My research questions lead to more questions and so on and there is no way I can answer all of them. My knowledge is a speck in the scheme of things, which is why I constantly keep up with new information coming out and seek out new information.

 I have always wondered if some people have mirrors? Talk about condescending ...... TyE should certainly re-read HER/HIS post ......
 
We are very lucky to have Dr. Scott (shhh....don't tell him I said that) here on BHW. I know for a fact that many of us either through phone calls or messages have gained valuable medical insight by talking to him. I will take his "facts" (any day) that are supported by his education, training and years of actual service as a doctor over made-up and false facts promoted here by some ..... I am still waiting for a response to my questions from the previous page.

 

I asked earlier if antivaxxers gave their pets shots, and one person responded that they give dewormer, but vaccinations aren't necessary
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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2018-10-15 9:46 AM (#7410546 - in reply to #7410543)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do



BHW Resident Surgeon


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Suerue2018 - 2018-10-15 9:33 AM

NJJ - 2018-10-14 9:32 AM

Suerue2018 - 2018-10-13 10:45 PM “It can no longer be denied that vaccines cause Autism.
I have read back through all of your nonsense "cut & paste", of which most can be soundly disproved .....
My question to you is ..... how would you feel if your unvaccinated child were to be severely affected by measles, mumps, whooping cough, meningitis, polio, etc. which includes brain damage, deafness, and EVEN death  Diseases that were mostly eradicated BEFORE irresponsible "experts" falsely started the anti-vaxer craze....... ...... because YOU made the decision for this child to NOT be vaccinated!
OR
 
Your unvaccinated child KILLED a baby that was too young to be vaccinated or a child (or person of any age) who can't be immunized for medical (immune) reasons ......

 

Here's just one example, there have been 2 measles deaths since 2000 and 127 reported MMR vaccine deaths since 2000. I believe shedding poses as more of a danger to others than those not vaccinated. Most adults are not up to date on all 73 vaccines so do you think they are dangering others too? Sorry I'm just now seeing your comment to give my view.

SueRue, where do you get your information?
Please cite your source.....if you have one.
Also, can you explain the relationship between “Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis” (SSPE) and measles? Do you have any figures related to death rates from this?

I know...you need time to “research” on FB. I’ll wait.
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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2018-10-15 9:59 AM (#7410548 - in reply to #7409587)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do



BHW Resident Surgeon


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Recently, there as a 7 part “documentary” released called “The Truth About Vaccines”. Like any other misinformation and propaganda movement, they become more cleverly packaged and disguised.
Their biggest selling point is their claim to have the support and input over 60 “experts”.
Here is a summary of those so-called “experts” (pardon the C&P):

Kennedy, JR – RFK is an attorney, author, and environmental activist. For a while, he was famous for working with Riverkeepers and then Waterkeeper Alliance but has since moved on to The Mercury Project and vaccines. His claims about mercury and vaccines are not supported by scientific consensus. He is lately becoming famous for his choice of words.

Sherri Tenpenny, DO – Sherri is a practicing osteopath in Ohio, USA, who runs a store online for supplements and a website called The Vaccine Library where, for $100 a year, you can access her information on vaccines. She also runs a website called TruthKings, which publishes very dramatic stories related to science and vaccines, rarely providing evidence to support claims. She calls herself a vaccine researcher but she has, in fact, published no research.

Paul Thomas, MD – Paul is a pediatrician with offices in the Portland, Oregon area. He is a founding member of Physicians for Informed Consent, an antivax group affiliated with many other antivax groups. Dr Paul makes claims about his patients health that are not supported by any actual evidence and he is the author of a book called The Vaccine-Friendly Plan. He claims not to be antivax but then he spends a lot of time saying vaccines are dangerous, without much evidence to support his claims.

Toni Bark, MD – Toni is a former hospital medical director who currently runs an aesthetic beauty clinic and health center in Illinois called The center for disease prevention and reversal. She is a practicing homeopath who also offers nutrition advice, bio-identical hormones, and aesthetic treatments like dermabrasion. She has, in recent years, become a very outspoken antivax activist.

Mike Adams, Health Ranger – Mike fancies himself a sort of health lone ranger, but this is really a business model for which he has become quite successful. It has been documented that Mike’s original foray into the business of health blogging was based on what he felt would be the most financially lucrative area of the internet. His it no wonder he “has found a way to foster and monetize the most current fear gripping the cultural zeitgeist?” He is considered a health scammer and has been under investigation by the FBI for his actions.

Andrew Wakefield, former MD – Andy has been involved in two notorious science scandals, both relating to his 2004 study. Brian Deer’s profile of him is accurate, as is this explanation of the “whistleblower” manufactroversy. Of course, I watched his film Vaxxed.

Barbara Loe Fisher – founder of the National Vaccine Information Center, Barbara talks a lot about vaccine risks, including autism, and freedom and choice. She has a son who had a reaction after his fourth DPT shot that she believes led to his learning disabilities. That spurned her into vaccine advocacy, leading to her being one of the authors of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986.

Del Bigtree – former producer of the television talk show, The Doctors, and producer of Vaxxed. Del was a lower tier producer on 32 episodes of The Doctors (out of 1125 total). He now makes a full time job out of promoting Vaxxed.

Suzanne Humphries, MD – Suzanne is a former nephrologist(currently licensed but not practicing) who, in 2011, devoted herself to studying homeopathy and then gave that up to focus full time on what she perceives as the evils of vaccines. She has been widely criticized for her ahistorical take on vaccines. I have read her book, Dissolving Illusions, and I am familiar with her vitamin C protocol. Her recommendations for vitamin C are based on case studies from the 1930s.

Larry Pavelsky, MD – Larry is a holistic pediatrician in New York state. He is in practice with a host of “alternative health practitioners.” A hallmark of someone not espousing good science is if they offer a store where they sell supplements and whether they offer to cure autism. Larry does both. Throughout the Truth series, Larry’s comments are among the most outrageously disconnected from fact and science.

Brian Hooker, PhD – Brian is an associate professor of biology at Simpson university in California. He has a teenage son on the autism spectrum and has spent much of the last 20 years working on proving that MMR and mercury caused his son’s “vaccine injury.” He was heavily involved with Vaxxed in that it was his now-retracted study that is featured in the film. His claim of vaccine injury was recently denied with medical evidence proved him wrong. He has a PhD in chemical engineering.

Sayer Ji – businessman Sayer has a degree in philosophy and runs the website, Greenmedinfo, which is a natural health website oft noted for it’s inexplicable inability to properly read scientific studies. He is also an advisory committee member of RFK’s World Mercury Project.

Judy Mikovitz, PhD – Judy is a disgraced scientist who chose to embrace pseudoscience rather than admit she made a mistake. She was a researcher looking into possible causes of chronic fatigue syndrome and claimed it was caused by a mouse recombinant virus called XMRV. The reality is that the XMRV was found to be caused by lab contamination, but Judy could not face facts. Sadly, bad science has a hard time dying and people desperate to repair their reputation sometimes dig themselves in deep holes.

Sin Hang Lee, MD – Sin has made a reputation for himself with his ideas about Gardasil vaccine. Even though his ideas about HPV dna have been widely discredited, he is still sought out by antivaxers.

Stephanie Seneff – Stephanie is Senior Research Scientist at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. That sounds so impressive, doesn’t it. But, why is she trying to study vaccines? This is the question of the day. Lately, she is making incredible claims about vaccines and autism, none of which make any sense.

Marco Ruggiero, MD – Marco is an Italian AIDS denialist and practitioner of autism “cures.” In my world, this makes him pretty low on the respectability totem pole.

Janet Levatin, MD – Janet is in practice with Tenpenny and a known antivaxer.

Joseph Mercola, DO – Joe is the granddaddy of natural health bloggers. He has been in legal trouble for making outlandish claims not based on science and is a millionaire off tanning bed and supplements sales.

Jennifer Margulis, PhD – Jennifer is a writer and known antivaxer. She has no background in science but co-authored Paul’s book (scroll up). She is anti medicine on several fronts, including birth.

Robert Scott Bell, DA, Hom – Robert is a podcaster who supposedly overcame a lot of chronic health conditions with homeopathy (which he now practices) and other natural healing methods.

Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD – Tetyana is a currently not employed immunologist who self published a small manual one can buy online. She makes a lot of strangely unscientific claims, in her book, which has led to her becoming a popular member of the antivax brigade. She is now also a member of Physicians for Informed Consent. It is not clear why she has rejected her training.

Rashid Buttar, DO – Rashid is a known antivaxer.

Debra Gambrell, DO – Debra is an Anthroposophical Medicine Specialist, which means she espouses the theories of Waldorf School founder, Rudolf Steiner, including that disease makes us stronger.

Allison Fomar, JD – Allison is a parental rights activist.

David Wolfe – David is, well, David. He thinks the earth is flat.

Jeffrey Jaxen – Jeffrey is an independent journalist who often writes for greenmedinfo and appears on the Robert Scott Bell show.

Robert J, Krakow – Robert is an attorney specializing in vaccine and other injuries.

Polly Tommey – Polly is a friend of Andy Wakefield’s and very involved in Vaxxed, including actively travelling the USA in the Vaxxed bus, collecting vaccine injury stories. She doesn’t believe science is truthful and instead believes whatever parents tell her. She has a son on the autism spectrum and believes he is vaccine injured and his life was destroyed. She is known for saying things like vaccines are murdering babies.

Shawn Centers, DO – Shawn is an integrative doctor who believes he can heal autism.

Neil Z Miller – Neil is a vaccine researcher who likes to use VAERS data that has not been medically verified as accurate in his “studies.”

Laura Hayes – Laura is media editor of Age of Autism, which many in the autism community believe is a hate group.

Tim O’Shea, DC – Tim is the author of a self-published bookclaiming vaccines do not immunize.

Ty and Charlene Bollinger – Ty is a former CPA who now runs the Truth about Cancer website. Charlene is his wife.

Nico LaHood – Nico is District Attorney for Bexar County, Texas. He believes one of his children became autistic after a vaccine and now talks about it in public.

Brandy Vaughan – Brandy is a former Vioxx rep for Merck who now runs a website called Learn the Risk. She thinks vaccine ingredients are highly toxic and raises money to fund a billboard campaign about them. She feels that her two years selling Vioxx makes her an expert in pharmaceutical company practices.

G. Edward Griffin – G. Edward is a far right conspiracy theorist.

April Boden – April believes vaccines caused her son’s autism.

Tony Muhammad – Tony is a minister with the Nation of Islamand opposes vaccines. He also believes Vaxxed is truthful and vaccines are causing 250% more autism in African American boys.

Erin Crawford – Erin believes she got cancer from the HPV vaccine but this is not supported by medical evidence.

Mario Lamo-Jimenez – Mario is a Colombian author who now speaks at Autismone conferences on HPV vaccine.

Michael R Hugo – Michael is an attorney

Erin Elizabeth – Erin calls herself “the health nut” and is either currently or has overcome every chronic health condition you can think of, including being aborted as a fetus, mold toxicity, vaccine injury, and god knows what else. Read her story, on her blog. It’s astounding. She is Joe Mercola’s girlfriend and spends much of her time, lately, making a list of “holistic” doctors who have died in the past few years. She believes they are all murder victims.

Heather Rice, DC – Heather is a Vermont chiropractor

Erick Zielinski, DC – Erick is a chiropractor, essential oil salesman, and practitioner of “biblical health” and online ministry out of Atlanta, Georgia.

Srinivasulu Gadugu MD – he is a homeopath

Cilla Whatcott, PhD – she is a homeopath

David Lewis – David is a former research microbiologist and now Co-Chair of the Whistleblower Leadership Council.

Heather Wolfson, DC – Heather is a chiropractor from Arizona who believes vaccines are toxic

Jack Wolfson, DO – Jack is a cardiac specialist from Arizona who now runs a practice with this wife wherein they sell supplementsand share why they think vaccines are toxic.

David Brownstein, MD – David is a holistic medicine practitioner from Michigan with specialty in thyroid health, arthritis and other chronic conditions. He believes they can all be overcome through diet.

Edward Group, DC – Edward wins the award for the most initials I have ever seen after one person’s name. According to his website, his title is Dr. Edward F Group III, DC, NP, DACBN, DCBCN, DABFM. You can check for yourself what all of that means.

Ian Clark – Ian is developer of a nanno-nutrition supplementcalled Oceans Alive. Yes, it is supposed to have two Ns.

Heidi Bonaroti – Heidi believes her son’s autism was caused by vaccines.

Muhammed Rafeeque, AA, BHMS – Muhammed is a homeopath who practices in India.

Edda West – Edda is founder of Vaccine Choice Canada, a believer that vaccines cause catastrophic illness and death in children, and a contributor to whale dot to and Vaccine Risk Awareness News.

Edwin Black – Edwin is a syndicated columnist and investigative journalist. He specializes in human rights.

Manuela Malaguti-Boyle, PhD, NMD – has a master’s in philosophy and a degree as a naturopathic doctor. She practices homeopathy and natural medicine in Australia.

Tom and Candace Bradstreet – Tom and Candace are related to Jeffrey Bradstreet, who killed himself as federal officials were about to raid his clinic. He had been accused of using an unproven, unregulated, potentially dangerous “cure” for autism called GcMAF.

Irvin Sahni, MD – Irvin is a pain medicine specialist from San Antonia, Texas.





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NJJ
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2018-10-15 10:25 AM (#7410552 - in reply to #7410546)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do


Military family

Fact Checker


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Bear - 2018-10-15 9:46 AM
Suerue2018 - 2018-10-15 9:33 AM
NJJ - 2018-10-14 9:32 AM
Suerue2018 - 2018-10-13 10:45 PM “It can no longer be denied that vaccines cause Autism.
I have read back through all of your nonsense "cut & paste", of which most can be soundly disproved .....

My question to you is ..... how would you feel if your unvaccinated child were to be severely affected by measles, mumps, whooping cough, meningitis, polio, etc. which includes brain damage, deafness, and EVEN death  Diseases that were mostly eradicated BEFORE irresponsible "experts" falsely started the anti-vaxer craze....... ...... because YOU made the decision for this child to NOT be vaccinated!

OR

 

Your unvaccinated child KILLED a baby that was too young to be vaccinated or a child (or person of any age) who can't be immunized for medical (immune) reasons ......


 
Here's just one example, there have been 2 measles deaths since 2000 and 127 reported MMR vaccine deaths since 2000. I believe shedding poses as more of a danger to others than those not vaccinated. Most adults are not up to date on all 73 vaccines so do you think they are dangering others too? Sorry I'm just now seeing your comment to give my view.
SueRue, where do you get your information? Please cite your source.....if you have one. Also, can you explain the relationship between “Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis” (SSPE) and measles? Do you have any figures related to death rates from this? I know...you need time to “research” on FB. I’ll wait.

SueRue ...... here's a statistic (FACT) for you to chew on .....  Before the measles vaccination program started in 1963, about 3 to 4 million people got measles each year in the United States. Of those people, 400 to 500 died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 4,000 developed encephalitis (brain swelling) from measles.

AND .... I noticed that you glossed over actually answering MY question to you and any anti-vaxer ......
 
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Red Raider
Reg. Jul 2010
Posted 2018-10-15 12:28 PM (#7410565 - in reply to #7409587)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do



Toastest with the Mostest


Posts: 5712
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I just want to put out there -- with the disclosure that I have letters behind my name too -- that you must realize why the inserts on meds and such are so long and why I'm guessing that most doctors don't pay attention to them = that's because they are written by lawyers geared towards CYA from other lawyers.  It's simple.  You always have to follow the money.  

In our day and age of lawsuits, those inserts are going to list everything under the sun in an effort to reduce liability from PI attorneys who are always looking for a way in through to sue and take money from the companies that produce meds and vaccines.  Those long lists covering everything are more of a legal protective measure than something I'd even want my own doctor paying attention to unless there was independent scientific or medical proof that it's really a problem -- and one that needs to be disclosed to patients.  

Honestly if you are really concerned -- do talk to your doctor but also have a great pharmacist who you consult with too.  Nobody has mentioned that in here too.

 
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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2018-10-15 3:21 PM (#7410588 - in reply to #7410565)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to d



BHW Resident Surgeon


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Red Raider - 2018-10-15 12:28 PM

I just want to put out there -- with the disclosure that I have letters behind my name too -- that you must realize why the inserts on meds and such are so long and why I'm guessing that most doctors don't pay attention to them = that's because they are written by lawyers geared towards CYA from other lawyers.  It's simple.  You always have to follow the money.  

In our day and age of lawsuits, those inserts are going to list everything under the sun in an effort to reduce liability from PI attorneys who are always looking for a way in through to sue and take money from the companies that produce meds and vaccines.  Those long lists covering everything are more of a legal protective measure than something I'd even want my own doctor paying attention to unless there was independent scientific or medical proof that it's really a problem -- and one that needs to be disclosed to patients.  

Honestly if you are really concerned -- do talk to your doctor but also have a great pharmacist who you consult with too.  Nobody has mentioned that in here too.

 

Excellent point! You are correct. Even if you watch a TV ad for something as commonly used as Chantix (for smoke stopping), at the end of the ad they mention a list of potentially serious side effects that would scare the hell out of anyone. The makers of Chantix are compelled to CYA.
My job, when prescribing a medication to a patient is to first make it clear that all medications have a long list of “potential” side effects, and that it would be impractical for me to list every single potential side effect. No doctor anywhere does that. Now, I do discuss potentially serious side effects that occur with any significant frequency, and I tell them of symptoms of those side effects.
I also certainly inform them of any unusual side effects that have achieved a certain degree of notoriety. An example would be the antibiotic Cipro, and others in the same class. That drug is associated with instances of Achilles’ tendon rupture. We aren’t certain why, but it’s pretty sensational and dramatic when it happens.

Bottom line is I have to inform to a reasonable degree and make sure they understand the balance of risk to benefit. You can’t possibly eliminate all instances of significant side effects. The vast majority of people are not hostile when that happens, so long as they know you made a reasonable attempt to inform them about risks/benefits.

Edited by Bear 2018-10-15 3:23 PM
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cheryl makofka
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2018-10-15 10:58 PM (#7410632 - in reply to #7409587)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do


The Advice Guru


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If anyone has "the truth about vaccines" all episodes and could email them to me. When they have been offered for free, I have t had the time, and am not willing to pay the $300 plus. wildhorselady2@yahoo.ca
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brlraceaddict
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2018-10-16 5:44 PM (#7410717 - in reply to #7409587)
Subject: RE: Input on Toddler Vaccinations ! on the fence on what to do



Firecracker Dog Lover


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https://retractionwatch.com/2018/10/16/journal-retracts-16-year-old-...
accine-study/?fbclid=IwAR0N5QZvEdazvoKy1gZc8kxPEtfq8Wd2YTypzwgLxgN6wjVg9tBJm-M6HUo

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