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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This whole cow fart hysteria is just so much bullsh!t, it isn’t even funny.
Show me the data that takes into account the 60 million Buffalo that once roamed the US in the 19th century, and how their methane contribution had all but vanished.
Basically, we have 80 million cattle in the US now....but 60 million buffalo have vanished.
I don’t buy it. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This graph was taken from Wikipedia (Generally a supporter of “man made” climate change. The far right is today. As one can see, earth has undergone significant climate change dating back hundreds of thousands of years. The addition of the CO2 and methane gas data has been implied as the definitive cause in the modern day climate change. Again....correlation used to imply causation.
Edited by Bear 2019-02-08 12:44 PM
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10793
Location: Kansas | oija - 2019-02-08 10:43 AM
Frodo - 2019-02-08 6:48 AM
People do these same things.......fart and produce waste. What the heck are we going to do about that?
Â
Yeah do you also choose cud? The amount of methane you produce is nothing next to ruminants like cattle and sheep.
So tell me. When do the Dems go after the hundreds of thousands of wild animals that roam the plains of the Serengeti in Africa. It makes no sense to limit your list of farting animals to America now does it?
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Here’s the deal.
No country has reduced carbon emissions more than the US, and those reductions in carbon emissions have been seen under Bush, Obama, AND Trump, in spite of our breaking away from the Paris Climate agreement.
Meanwhile, in the rest of the world:
China’s emissions have soared.
India’s emissions have soared.
Europe’s emissions continue to rise.
In the face of that, we have been guilted by our own politicians into believing we alone should bear the burden. Now, we are seriously talking about this nightmare scenario proposed by AOC’s “Green New Deal”, by a carbon tax, by eliminating air travel, by eliminating cow farts, and so forth.
Personally, I’m open to continued study of man made climate change. As of now, I’m not convinced that man made factors play a SIGNIFICANT role. There’s an old adage that I think applies very well here: “Necessity is the mother of invention”. America is responding to these concerns......while China and India are giving the world the middle finger.
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I keep my change in my pockets
Posts: 2985
Location: MN | Someone or ones mentioned human farts, let look at earth population 200 yrs ago compared to now. No I'm not going google the difference but I now it is huge very go back 300 yrs. Don't go blaming cattle.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | dawnb - 2019-02-08 1:54 PM
Someone or ones mentioned human farts, let look at earth population 200 yrs ago compared to now. No I'm not going google the difference but I now it is huge very go back 300 yrs. Don't go blaming cattle.
200 years ago, the world population was 1 Billion. Now it’s almost 8 Billion.
Maybe that’s why progressive liberals really love abortion and infanticide so much......cut down on the impact of human farts.
The way I see it, most of the hot air comes from the left. If only we could concentrate all the liberal progressives in one country maybe they could use their own eugenics on themselves.....and save the planet in more ways than one. | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Bear - 2019-02-08 3:57 PM dawnb - 2019-02-08 1:54 PM Someone or ones mentioned human farts, let look at earth population 200 yrs ago compared to now. No I'm not going google the difference but I now it is huge very go back 300 yrs. Don't go blaming cattle. 200 years ago, the world population was 1 Billion. Now it’s almost 8 Billion. Maybe that’s why progressive liberals really love abortion and infanticide so much......cut down on the impact of human farts. The way I see it, most of the hot air comes from the left. If only we could concentrate all the liberal progressives in one country maybe they could use their own eugenics on themselves.....and save the planet in more ways than one.
Ha ha ha ha ha, love this ^^^^^^ The Liberals need their own far far far away island, with no grid and have to live off the land and NO JETS.... Ha ha ha ha, would love to see how long they would last.. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Cattle are a bigger part of the picture for a couple reasons. A) they are eating a lot of grain over just grass which produces more methane than buffalo and B) (like I said before) there are way more people and way more emissions from other causes like vehicle traffic and burning coal to produce electricity in addition to the cattle causing potential issues with pollution and climate change. So the emissions factor is greatly increased over anything in the previous centuries when buffalo were wandering around.
And historically the earth CAN handle a lot of crap and even heat. The problem is that those mechanisms the earth has for dealing with too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, think rainforests, ocean algae, etc. we are also negatively impacting and destroying. The earth getting hotter by itself isn't the problem. The earth getting hotter while we work on destroying her natural mechanisms for dealing with changes IS a problem that goes beyond just emissions.
As far as other countries go, they too need to work on their emissions issues and pollution issues. But this is a case of two wrongs don't make a right. We can't point at India and China and other countries and say just because their emissions are going up that we should have the right to stop working on ourselves. And even with their emissions going up, America BY FAR with FAR LESS POPULATION THAN CHINA OR INDIA has the largest emissions record and carbon footprint per capita. If you look at emissions per capita, I am sorry but we are the most capable of effecting change person by person. And if we are going to scream about how great America is then we need to prove it and be a leader in these things.
All that said, I am a moderate. The lady's plan posted in the OP's original article is extreme and ridiculous. I am not about to stop eating steak or voting to get rid of cows. But finding good solutions to deal with with pollution issues we cause to make life healthier for everyone like feeding cows different products to decrease methane production or finding alternative energy sources that are sustainable and renewable and quite simply picking up the trash we create and recycling it is just a good idea plain and simple. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 705
Location: Weatherford, TX | Haven’t we already been ‘a leader’ in this area for decades?
And China, India and others STILL have NOT followed and will NOT do so, no matter what we do. All the Paris Accord did was penalize us and NOT hold China, India and other countries accountable. It just seems that’s always the way it is. Ever dealt with China manufacturers in person? Oh, it is just tons of fun.
I am all for recycling, composting, etc.. My Mom was doing that when I was kid before it was ‘cool’ to do. And my Mom wasn’t a ‘hippie’ she learned to do that well before that whole ‘movement’ as my grandmother (her Mom) went through the Depression. I think we may have too many ‘hippies’ teaching kids for some time now. But anything along this Deal is just nuts. It is nothing more than a massive centralized government; i.e., Socialism.
I know you said you don’t agree with this Deal.
What exactly should we do? We should go further that way than we already have and affect our economy/our way of life and all other countries can do whatever?
Just exactly how much do ‘we’ have to do to get ‘others’ to follow in this lifetime?
Edited by Gator Bug 2019-02-08 6:44 PM
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 The Vaccinator
Posts: 3810
Location: Slipping down the slope of old age. Boo hoo. | Those of us who study history know about Krakatoa -- that Pacific volcano blew its top and the entire earth was in "winter" for a year -- early 1800s best I remember. As Bear stated, we are leading in reducing emissions and we should be proud of the fact we are stepping it up and reducing emissions and our garbage, BUT the other nations need to step it up! China and India are terrible!!!! We can do all we can to limit our human impact -- yet the earth could at anytime do herself in with a few major volcanoes blowing up..... | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | oija - 2019-02-08 4:59 PM
Cattle are a bigger part of the picture for a couple reasons. A) they are eating a lot of grain over just grass which produces more methane than buffalo and B) (like I said before) there are way more people and way more emissions from other causes like vehicle traffic and burning coal to produce electricity in addition to the cattle causing potential issues with pollution and climate change. So the emissions factor is greatly increased over anything in the previous centuries when buffalo were wandering around.
And historically the earth CAN handle a lot of crap and even heat. The problem is that those mechanisms the earth has for dealing with too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, think rainforests, ocean algae, etc. we are also negatively impacting and destroying. The earth getting hotter by itself isn't the problem. The earth getting hotter while we work on destroying her natural mechanisms for dealing with changes IS a problem that goes beyond just emissions.
As far as other countries go, they too need to work on their emissions issues and pollution issues. But this is a case of two wrongs don't make a right. We can't point at India and China and other countries and say just because their emissions are going up that we should have the right to stop working on ourselves. And even with their emissions going up, America BY FAR with FAR LESS POPULATION THAN CHINA OR INDIA has the largest emissions record and carbon footprint per capita. If you look at emissions per capita, I am sorry but we are the most capable of effecting change person by person. And if we are going to scream about how great America is then we need to prove it and be a leader in these things.
All that said, I am a moderate. The lady's plan posted in the OP's original article is extreme and ridiculous. I am not about to stop eating steak or voting to get rid of cows. But finding good solutions to deal with with pollution issues we cause to make life healthier for everyone like feeding cows different products to decrease methane production or finding alternative energy sources that are sustainable and renewable and quite simply picking up the trash we create and recycling it is just a good idea plain and simple.
Oija, you seem moderately sensible.
My earlier point is that we are leading the world in reducing greenhouse emissions. We cannot force China, India, and Europe to lower their emissions. We didn’t need some limp-wristed, costly unenforceable “agreement” to which the biggest offenders will not comply.
This pie graph gives us an idea of the sources of atmospheric methane. Some of these sources are interesting.....termites, and rice farming. It doesn’t take much imagination to understand how the methane factor is a liberal politician’s wet dream.
My question to you is this....if you feel excess methane needs to be reduced, what are YOUR solutions?
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| https://www.facebook.com/GlennBeck/videos/2011780018943229/UzpfSTEwM...
so dam funny but scary as hell | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| Southtxponygirl - 2019-02-09 11:21 AM
hell yes | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Bear - 2019-02-08 7:29 PM
oija - 2019-02-08 4:59 PM
Cattle are a bigger part of the picture for a couple reasons. A) they are eating a lot of grain over just grass which produces more methane than buffalo and B) (like I said before) there are way more people and way more emissions from other causes like vehicle traffic and burning coal to produce electricity in addition to the cattle causing potential issues with pollution and climate change. So the emissions factor is greatly increased over anything in the previous centuries when buffalo were wandering around.
And historically the earth CAN handle a lot of crap and even heat. The problem is that those mechanisms the earth has for dealing with too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, think rainforests, ocean algae, etc. we are also negatively impacting and destroying. The earth getting hotter by itself isn't the problem. The earth getting hotter while we work on destroying her natural mechanisms for dealing with changes IS a problem that goes beyond just emissions.
As far as other countries go, they too need to work on their emissions issues and pollution issues. But this is a case of two wrongs don't make a right. We can't point at India and China and other countries and say just because their emissions are going up that we should have the right to stop working on ourselves. And even with their emissions going up, America BY FAR with FAR LESS POPULATION THAN CHINA OR INDIA has the largest emissions record and carbon footprint per capita. If you look at emissions per capita, I am sorry but we are the most capable of effecting change person by person. And if we are going to scream about how great America is then we need to prove it and be a leader in these things.
All that said, I am a moderate. The lady's plan posted in the OP's original article is extreme and ridiculous. I am not about to stop eating steak or voting to get rid of cows. But finding good solutions to deal with with pollution issues we cause to make life healthier for everyone like feeding cows different products to decrease methane production or finding alternative energy sources that are sustainable and renewable and quite simply picking up the trash we create and recycling it is just a good idea plain and simple.
Oija, you seem moderately sensible.
My earlier point is that we are leading the world in reducing greenhouse emissions. We cannot force China, India, and Europe to lower their emissions. We didn’t need some limp-wristed, costly unenforceable “agreement” to which the biggest offenders will not comply.
This pie graph gives us an idea of the sources of atmospheric methane. Some of these sources are interesting.....termites, and rice farming. It doesn’t take much imagination to understand how the methane factor is a liberal politician’s wet dream.
My question to you is this....if you feel excess methane needs to be reduced, what are YOUR solutions?
I have read some interesting things about how they have developed some barley grass feeds to help with the methane issues. There are several things in agriculture and we can continue to do and research. I actually think some nuclear energy may help us clean up a lot of coal burning that we do. If we develop infrastructure for more electric or hybrid vehicles for just daily commute vehicles based on nuclear electrical I think it would be great. Heavy hauling will still probably demand more fuel burning but that would cut down on a lot of heavy city emissions and make for cleaner air for people to breath since most driving doesn’t honestly need a lot of power. The newer nuclear production methods they have are so much safer and cleaner and produce so much less waste than they used to I think it’s actually a really viable energy source for electricity. I mean wind and solar and hydro are great but they just aren’t enough to really power the world. But nuclear is.
We also really need to work on cleaning up our oceans from plastic and other issues to allow algae to really flourish. It’s the #1 creator of a healthy ozone layer and oxygen. The best way our planet has of self regulating so we should do what we can to promote it’s growth and health. India and China are something I am not as sure about but something needs to be done more in Europe too. They all need to responsible and answerable too.
Edited by oija 2019-02-09 12:41 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | oija - 2019-02-09 12:36 PM
Bear - 2019-02-08 7:29 PM
oija - 2019-02-08 4:59 PM
Cattle are a bigger part of the picture for a couple reasons. A) they are eating a lot of grain over just grass which produces more methane than buffalo and B) (like I said before) there are way more people and way more emissions from other causes like vehicle traffic and burning coal to produce electricity in addition to the cattle causing potential issues with pollution and climate change. So the emissions factor is greatly increased over anything in the previous centuries when buffalo were wandering around.
And historically the earth CAN handle a lot of crap and even heat. The problem is that those mechanisms the earth has for dealing with too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, think rainforests, ocean algae, etc. we are also negatively impacting and destroying. The earth getting hotter by itself isn't the problem. The earth getting hotter while we work on destroying her natural mechanisms for dealing with changes IS a problem that goes beyond just emissions.
As far as other countries go, they too need to work on their emissions issues and pollution issues. But this is a case of two wrongs don't make a right. We can't point at India and China and other countries and say just because their emissions are going up that we should have the right to stop working on ourselves. And even with their emissions going up, America BY FAR with FAR LESS POPULATION THAN CHINA OR INDIA has the largest emissions record and carbon footprint per capita. If you look at emissions per capita, I am sorry but we are the most capable of effecting change person by person. And if we are going to scream about how great America is then we need to prove it and be a leader in these things.
All that said, I am a moderate. The lady's plan posted in the OP's original article is extreme and ridiculous. I am not about to stop eating steak or voting to get rid of cows. But finding good solutions to deal with with pollution issues we cause to make life healthier for everyone like feeding cows different products to decrease methane production or finding alternative energy sources that are sustainable and renewable and quite simply picking up the trash we create and recycling it is just a good idea plain and simple.
Oija, you seem moderately sensible.
My earlier point is that we are leading the world in reducing greenhouse emissions. We cannot force China, India, and Europe to lower their emissions. We didn’t need some limp-wristed, costly unenforceable “agreement” to which the biggest offenders will not comply.
This pie graph gives us an idea of the sources of atmospheric methane. Some of these sources are interesting.....termites, and rice farming. It doesn’t take much imagination to understand how the methane factor is a liberal politician’s wet dream.
My question to you is this....if you feel excess methane needs to be reduced, what are YOUR solutions?
I have read some interesting things about how they have developed some barley grass feeds to help with the methane issues. There are several things in agriculture and we can continue to do and research. I actually think some nuclear energy may help us clean up a lot of coal burning that we do. If we develop infrastructure for more electric or hybrid vehicles for just daily commute vehicles based on nuclear electrical I think it would be great. Heavy hauling will still probably demand more fuel burning but that would cut down on a lot of heavy city emissions and make for cleaner air for people to breath since most driving doesn’t honestly need a lot of power. The newer nuclear production methods they have are so much safer and cleaner and produce so much less waste than they used to I think it’s actually a really viable energy source for electricity. I mean wind and solar and hydro are great but they just aren’t enough to really power the world. But nuclear is.
We also really need to work on cleaning up our oceans from plastic and other issues to allow algae to really flourish. It’s the #1 creator of a healthy ozone layer and oxygen. The best way our planet has of self regulating so we should do what we can to promote it’s growth and health. India and China are something I am not as sure about but something needs to be done more in Europe too. They all need to responsible and answerable too.
My view is that we don’t need massive, expensive, intrusive government mandates thrust down our throats to advance an agenda that most people agree seems like it might be sensible. Logic, reason, and a robust scientific community free of political entanglements is the best solution that will advance sensible changes. We don’t know for sure exactly how much man’s activities contribute to “Climate change”. It may not even be significant.
We can, nonetheless, take some common sense steps could lead to a downturn in emissions. In fact, we already have. We didn’t need an expensive “One World Order” Paris Climate Agreement to get that done. We don’t need to follow Europe’s lead.....Europe follows ours.
If we unilaterally make incredibly expensive changes that gravely impact our debt, commerce, and industry, while China and India make none, we will be signing our death warrant.
My point is this....society and industry will respond demands, provided those demands are based on sound, unbiased science.
To your point about cattle, your idea about development of newer grasses and feeds that mitigate against greenhouse gas emissions....those are good developments. The development of certain vaccines that result in reductions of bacteria responsible for much of the methane and NO2 is close to completion.
Your idea of more nuclear power plants is great...but society has to have their concerns about accidents and disasters assuaged. Nuclear power in the US has been demonstrably safe. Over the last 60 years, we’ve had one major accident at a nuclear power plant at 3 Mile Island, 40 years ago, and that was quickly contained. No lives were lost. In fact, we haven’t lost any lives to exposure to radiation since the inception of nuclear power. Unfortunately, we haven’t managed to make progress on the nuclear power front.
As to your desire of cleaning up the oceans, nobody can disagree. That just makes sense, regardless of the impact on greenhouse gasses. Floating islands of plastic garbage really do exist...however, once again, China and other countries in the Far East are the big offenders.
Nobody is opposed to recycling. That just makes sense, but this is not some novel new idea. It is catching on.....NOT because it is mandated by some draconian government restrictions. It made sense back an WWII and that’s the genesis of today’s recycling industry. We recycled newspaper, rubber, nylon, glass, and metal.
Recycling is a growing industry because it made sense and it is profitable.
The idea of electric cars as part of the solution makes some sense....but right now the impact of electric cars is minuscule.
The cheapest Tesla costs just under $40K. Top range on a full charge is about 200 miles. If you charge it at home it takes 4 hours. If you charge it at a super charger station, it takes about 45 minutes and costs $25. So basically, most people can’t afford a sh!tty, $40,000 slow car as a luxury item to combat global warming. Progress is being made, but the best way is through market forces....free market capitalism. Intrusive, government imposed mandates aren’t the best approach. When it makes sense all the way around, people will repond.
On the other hand....if we all sign on to this brainless “Green New Deal” we can kiss our as$es goodbye.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 705
Location: Weatherford, TX | Bear... Agree...
But there is more to be added to use a ‘sledgehammer approach’...
Anytime anything has progressed, it has been the private sector that ‘evolved’ it in our country. It is motivated by the thing called ‘greed’ that is a four letter word to Socialists.
Anytime the so called ‘Government’ gets involved and takes over... It is a big huge mess and further down the ‘Socialistic rabbit hole’ we go!
If you look at FDR and Social Security that is now going bankrupt or LBJ on the ‘war on poverty’... the money just ‘evaporates’. And...we have to have more money!
Just look at the VA for Government Run Healthcare. That is just great, isn’t it?
Anytime any so called ‘Government’ is given more money for more programs....it is NEVER enough. Look at the Federal Income tax back in the early 20th century, it was JUST a tax ONLY on the so called ‘rich’. What is it now? Also it would never go over 5 percent on the ‘rich’. It is now well over that for EVERYONE.
Our Constitution gives Rights to the people and LIMITS the Rights of Government. ALL the Government should do is protect its people from enemies foreign and domestic.
JUST TELL ME where in the Constitution (Amendments/Articles) that it says I have a RIGHT to welfare, social security, Medicare/Medicaid, food stamps, etc.; or that we have to provide all those ‘programs’ to Illegals. I should NOT have that/those Right(s) either as a Citizen.
IF... You want a guaranteed job, guaranteed income, guaranteed housing, guaranteed health care, guaranteed education, guaranteed food, etc.. Guaranteed all this...
THAT is the Communist Manifesto. Marx. Read it sometime.
A Democratic Socialist is nothing more than a VERY patient Communist... Lenin, Stalin, Hitler...take your pick, they ALL started out that way. Google.
The Government should be LIMITED under our Constitution...they knew way back then just how out of control ANY Government could get. Why/how did they know? They studied, they critically thought and formed this Government that we are so very fortunate to have. Not always perfect, but has done WAY more than any other out there...whenever.
We are taking it (our Rights/our Country) for granted and getting WAY TOO ENTITLED.
We have been SO VERY far away from what that Document says for such a very long time, that it is going to be VERY hard to yank it back.
Let’s go....And feel free to discuss/answer back.
ETA... Bear, I know you know ALL of what I stated above.
I just ‘replied’ instead of ‘quoting’ on other above posts, so it would not be so long. LOL
Edited by Gator Bug 2019-02-09 5:40 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Back to electric cars (EVs). I’m intrigued by them, just like I’m very intrigued with solar power.
With solar power, I just think it makes a ton of sense. In fact, anytime you can live off the grid, you are ahead of the game.
Besides, in today’s world where survivalism is a hot topic, it’s very comforting to know you have a good solar power system. When market forces and innovations reach a certain point, I believe solar will take off like crazy. It’s still fairly expensive and you have to use solar power a long time to see a good ROI.
Electric cars just aren’t there yet. For one thing, too many people like the power of an internal combustion engine. Guys like myself love horsepower and the vibration. I don’t want to move in a vehicle that sounds like an electric golf cart. It’s a testosterone thing. You can buy a $200K Tesla that can reach over 200mph and go from 0-60 in under 2 seconds, but who wants to do that in a car without any noise? I’m not turned on by that idea...not for that kind of money.
Most people think electric cars suck for other reasons.
They are expensive. They are a pain in the ass.
Driving range, I’ve come to believe, isn’t the biggest impediment to EV adoption. Sure, low gasoline prices make it hard to pry Americans out of their internal-combustion comfort zone. But there’s a bigger mental millstone: Charging. EV’s still take far too long to charge, at home or away. Farther afield, most people aren’t about to waste time searching for a charging station and then cooling their heels. Tell them they'll need to hang out at a charger in Podunk for 30-45 minutes, let alone three hours, and they'd rather hang themselves with the cord. Someday, maybe. We aren’t very close yet. | |
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