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2yo evading bit....what should I do?

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Last activity 2019-05-28 12:46 PM
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cavyrunsbarrels
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2019-05-12 9:33 AM
Subject: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?


Red Bull Agressive


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Location: North Dakota

I recently started riding a 2yo who has had between 60-90 rides in the last 5ish months. So she is obviously still veeery green. She seems very quiet and level headed but she seems to have already learned to evade the bit. Like I said, I've only ridden her a couple times and I haven't seen how her owner/trainer rides her. I also do not own her, so do not know when she last had her teeth done, but know her owners take very good care of their horses and maintain them well. But anyway, when I just *touch* the bit to back up or stop her, she first responds by tucking her nose to her chest and opening her mouth. Also her steering is not great (yes I use my seat and leg, but rather than "following her nose" she wants to bend her neck around and keep traveling straight). She is like riding a wet noodle lol. And when she wants to speed up, and I touch the bit, she will fight the contact by lifting her head or tucking it to her chest and trying to run through it. She also will get a little tail swishy and upset. 

I'm thinking I need to take her back a step and put her in a sidepull and get her used to stopping and steering in that before reintroducing a bit. But she is the youngest horse I've worked with, so I'm curious what others with more experience would do. FYI the only bit she's been ridden in is a single joint O-ring. If/when I do reintroduce a bit, is there something else you would recommend? I have an english D ring myler level 1 that I'm curious how she would respond to, but would love to hear other ideas. 

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casualdust07
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2019-05-12 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?



You get what you give


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How many days in a row is she ridden? I would try to just get consistent with her, ride in spurts of 3 days and then give a day off. That way things start to get retained. Right off the bat if you said you had a 2YO with 90 days riding I would not expect what you are describing anymore, speaking honestly, if the horse were legit sent off for 60-90 days training.  But if it's just a few days here and there over 5 months its very possible there just hasnt been enough consistent reinforcement.  I would start there and see if she improves. Do you have a trainer or mentor to go to? I read where you said this was the youngest one you've worked with before. 

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cavyrunsbarrels
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2019-05-12 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?


Red Bull Agressive


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Location: North Dakota

casualdust07 - 2019-05-12 11:17 AM


How many days in a row is she ridden? I would try to just get consistent with her, ride in spurts of 3 days and then give a day off. That way things start to get retained. Right off the bat if you said you had a 2YO with 90 days riding I would not expect what you are describing anymore, speaking honestly, if the horse were legit sent off for 60-90 days training.  But if it's just a few days here and there over 5 months its very possible there just hasnt been enough consistent reinforcement.  I would start there and see if she improves. Do you have a trainer or mentor to go to? I read where you said this was the youngest one you've worked with before. 


Yes her riding has been inconsistent (it's winter in North Dakota, you can't get much done lol). But literally I've ridden her twice. Everything else has been done by her owner/trainer. I'm just exercising her and considering purchasing her in a few months. The only resource I have is her owners (and they're very busy, which is why they haven't had time to watch and give me their opinion). I saw a video of him riding her on her 10th ride and she was resistant to the bit then too, especially in regards to turning. She's very quiet and calm overall, just seems to be confused and/or uncomfortable with the bit. It takes me half the arena to stop her at a walk unless I one rein stop her. I *think* it's just the inconsistency of her riding, but idk. Either way, it makes sense to me that taking her back a step into a sidepull now that she will be ridden more regularly (aiming for 3-4 days a week, since she is still just 2) and then reintroducing a bit would be the way to go, I think...

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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2019-05-12 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?


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Whoever’s had her has given her mixed messages. Be consistent with what you ask for . If she’s noodly she most likely need more shoulder control and to learn to move did your leg.

i wouldn’t go back to a side pull. I’d use a chain mouth piece or three piece mouth piece ORing. 

ETA: what you’re describing is just green horse stuff. She should have a good start by now but she doesn’t .



Edited by Liana D 2019-05-12 1:08 PM
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mtcanchazer
Reg. Apr 2012
Posted 2019-05-12 8:23 PM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?



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Liana D - 2019-05-12 11:57 AM


Whoever’s had her has given her mixed messages. Be consistent with what you ask for . If she’s noodly she most likely need more shoulder control and to learn to move did your leg.


i wouldn’t go back to a side pull. I’d use a chain mouth piece or three piece mouth piece ORing. 


ETA: what you’re describing is just green horse stuff. She should have a good start by now but she doesn’t .


I am not a trainer, really truly started my first colt this winter and used a halter or 3 piece snaffle. Then I sent him to a trainer to get "buttons" put on, and the trainer told me he really follows his nose well and rides out pretty good for a 2 year old. Personally, I love a 3 piece or chain mouth on almost every horse I have ridden. 

Maybe start back on the ground with just pressure and release, pressure and release, side to side at first, then vertically. Should come out of it in a few days, IMHO. 

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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2019-05-12 9:21 PM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?


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mtcanchazer - 2019-05-12 8:23 PM


Liana D - 2019-05-12 11:57 AM


Whoever’s had her has given her mixed messages. Be consistent with what you ask for . If she’s noodly she most likely need more shoulder control and to learn to move did your leg.


i wouldn’t go back to a side pull. I’d use a chain mouth piece or three piece mouth piece ORing. 


ETA: what you’re describing is just green horse stuff. She should have a good start by now but she doesn’t .



I am not a trainer, really truly started my first colt this winter and used a halter or 3 piece snaffle. Then I sent him to a trainer to get "buttons" put on, and the trainer told me he really follows his nose well and rides out pretty good for a 2 year old. Personally, I love a 3 piece or chain mouth on almost every horse I have ridden. 


Maybe start back on the ground with just pressure and release, pressure and release, side to side at first, then vertically. Should come out of it in a few days, IMHO. 


I think more ground work is fine but it’s going take more than a few days ;-)

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cavyrunsbarrels
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2019-05-12 10:19 PM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?


Red Bull Agressive


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Location: North Dakota

Thanks for all the tips so far! I do have a 3piece loose ring so maybe I’ll try that. As for ground work, in a halter at least she’s solid. She’ll back, yield to pressure either direction, move her hindquarters, etc. 

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CHASIN CANS
Reg. Nov 2018
Posted 2019-05-14 12:37 AM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?


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Check her for wolf teeth or a broken part of a wolf tooth in the gum ... her reactions seems like the bit is bumping a tooth or pinching in the corner of her mouth/lips.

Over flexing exercising and using a one rein stop constantly can also create what you describe .. I call it frozen hands and eyes of fear on the riders part. 

I would let her wear the egg butt D ring anytime I was working in the barn or longeing her off of a halter and then move to driving her off of a halter while wearing and getting used to carrying a bit and once moving and cueing nicely .. slowly move to the eggbutt D ring bit ... since it is the sofest bit you can use ..  I am referring to a racing eggbutt D ring.  Driving lets the horse carry their head naturally and should help her forget the chin to the chest and head lagging to the side.

You never know what other people have done to the horse so you go thru the paces of colt starting until you find out how much she knows and continue with your program from there ..

this is why the Clinton Anderson program has been so successful .. he has the mind of a teacher and horseman and has put things I have done for years in a certain order ...

and trains a horse by repetition of what he taught before and adds a new one as the training continues ..  like repeating items 1-2-3-4-5+6 .. then 2-3 days later  1-2-3-4-5-6+7 until you have a very smooth training session ... ignore any small mistakes and when you come back around be ready to do it right without any drama ... GOOD LUCK

 



Edited by CHASIN CANS 2019-05-14 12:40 AM
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geronabean
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2019-05-14 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?



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Check the teeth. Babies mouths change all the time.

It could just be the mouth pc of the bit you are using. She may be scared of the feel of that mouth pc. I try multiple different mouth pcs on my colts to see which they prefer. I also am not one who only uses a ring bit on a colt. I have found plenty that don't like the direct mouth pressure but respond better to a shank.

Fix it quick, the over verticle to the chest can be a lifelong bad habit that is pretty hard to correct.

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r_beau
Reg. Apr 2010
Posted 2019-05-14 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?



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Location: North Dakota

I agree with the suggestion of having her teeth checked, if it has not been done recently.

And honestly, start her from scratch. She's already got some bad habits that need fixing. I'm in NoDak too but I obviously don't know you or what trainer your horse is from. But they should have a decent start for 60-90 days and from what you describe, she does not. She doesn't understand how to respond/give to the bit, because she either fights you or evades you.

I personally prefer double jointed snaffles (rather than single joints) so I would put her in the Myler D ring you already have, or the O-ring you have, and see how she goes in that and work on your re-training from there.

Now, you said you are considering purchasing her. I guess see how she does, but do you want to purchase a project 2-year-old who has bad habits that need fixing? Or you do you want to look for one that has actually been started correctly in the bit? Even if she has been working inconsistently (this winter totally sucked, LOL), so long as she was worked CORRECTLY, she should not have these issues.

Again, start over. She does not know the correct way to resond to the bit. You'll have to teach her. Have soft hands, reward her immediately, and make sure to ride with her legs (so she doesn't try to evade). If you have never started a colt before, I suggest you take some lessons (NOT from the horse's owner, quite clearly) to help you along. It all about correct TIMING and correct FEEL so you release the pressure on the reins at the correct time.

I too am a fan of Clinton Anderson. While I do think he is way more aggressive than he needs to be, he explains things very well about what he is doing, why, where, when ,etc. And a lot can be learned.

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racingforgold
Reg. May 2019
Posted 2019-05-14 8:35 PM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?


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I wouldn't put her in a sidepull, if she's evading the bit, that's usually an issue that needs to be solved in a bit. 

Just spend lots of time riding and release at the very instant she gives you a good 'feel' (even if it's just an attempt at the right answer). 

If she's noodley, she just needs more confidence and quality leadership. With the neck bending around, as soon as she does that, really hustle her feet and get her driving off her hind end. If she has bad steering, practice serpentines, figure eights and just a lot of turns.

I would definitely try the myler bit. I prefer 3 piece snaffles as they don't hit the palate by accident. 

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aqhabarrelchic1
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2019-05-14 10:47 PM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?


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id let her pack a bit for a while.... anytime shes tide up just put a snaffle in her mouth.... then lunge her bitted up but loose so the reins flop around that how ive solved that problem.... granted as long as theres no teeth issues

 

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cavyrunsbarrels
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2019-05-20 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?


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Location: North Dakota

Well I've put a couple more rides on her and put her in the Myler. She improved tenfold immediately. Still lots to work on but I think the other bit was either uncomfortable or unclear to her. Thanks for all the help everyone!

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RHRanch
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2019-05-28 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: 2yo evading bit....what should I do?



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geronabean - 2019-05-14 10:25 AM


Check the teeth. Babies mouths change all the time.


It could just be the mouth pc of the bit you are using. She may be scared of the feel of that mouth pc. I try multiple different mouth pcs on my colts to see which they prefer. I also am not one who only uses a ring bit on a colt. I have found plenty that don't like the direct mouth pressure but respond better to a shank.


Fix it quick, the over verticle to the chest can be a lifelong bad habit that is pretty hard to correct.


Totally what she said.  A young horses mouth changes SO MUCH!  I usually have their teeth looked at every 6 months from 2-4.  Try to keep them as happy as possible in there.  I can't imagine the pain in a mouth with a bit in there on top of everything else going on.  

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