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No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring

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Last activity 2019-12-05 5:35 AM
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2019-12-01 4:27 PM
Subject: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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I thought this was real interesting.. I was just reading this in my America's Horse that I get from AQHA..Beginning Jan. 1st 2020, American Quarter Horses competing at Aqha approved shows that test positive for natural cannabinoids synrhetc cannabinoids and other's will be considered in violation of AQHA rule vi0401.1, a postive test  will result in a fine of 2,500 and three months of supension and disqualification of the horse. So no CBD at AQHA shows period..

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madredepeanut
Reg. Aug 2017
Posted 2019-12-02 6:55 AM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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They also said no albuterol, which irks me because that's like telling an asthmatic they can't use an inhaler

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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2019-12-02 9:16 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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I wonder who makes these decisions on what Medicine/drugs can be and cant be used in the ring? Do they have to vote or is there that one person that makes the call? Does AQHA have a board of members that make these decisions? 

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little_bug
Reg. Oct 2008
Posted 2019-12-02 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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Pretty soon they won't be able to have any glucosamine either.... (unless they already have that one and I am naive to it

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wyoming barrel racer
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2019-12-03 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring


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Southtxponygirl - 2019-12-02 8:16 PM


I wonder who makes these decisions on what Medicine/drugs can be and cant be used in the ring? Do they have to vote or is there that one person that makes the call? Does AQHA have a board of members that make these decisions? 


Any member can send in requests etc for rule changes. Then the national directors vote on them at the National convention coming up in March. Regardless of how we vote, the last decision is up to the Executive committee made up of 6 people. Those 6 have 100% of the say so.

As someone that shows, I'm not totally aware of what albuterol does etc. But I have seen how hard a long day of showing is on a sound and healthy horse. So if albuterol is compared to what an asthmatic would need, I believe they shouldn't be showing. I don't think the general horse public understands that all these pain meds and drugs encourage those owners to show a horse that otherwise shouldn't be showing. AQHA has their faults but they really are trying to do right by the animal. There are still so many things that need cracked down on IMO the race track, but that is such a team effort and similar to credit card fraud, the more the AQHA cracks down, the wiser the dishonest people get.

 

I know this comment is going to get a ton of backlash, because as I mentioned, eliminating certain drugs will eliminate a lot of entries.  We love our horses and the competition, but the horse can't tell you no. In small shows (and barrel races) in just WY & SD I have seen horses that are not sound enough to be there.  I fought a nasty cough with my own horse for 2 yrs and thought about giving up. I was lucky and we found it was an allergy. Love the horse first, then the sport.

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KindaClassey
Reg. Sep 2011
Posted 2019-12-03 9:30 AM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring


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I'm with you 100% Wyoming Barrel racer. I'm all for using some things as preventative measure, or to help with the little problems that all preformance horses/people have in life. But I'm not for the stuff that covers up a serious health issue just because we want to compete.

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Delta Cowgirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2019-12-03 10:34 AM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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wyoming barrel racer - 2019-12-03 9:12 AM


Southtxponygirl - 2019-12-02 8:16 PM


I wonder who makes these decisions on what Medicine/drugs can be and cant be used in the ring? Do they have to vote or is there that one person that makes the call? Does AQHA have a board of members that make these decisions? 



Any member can send in requests etc for rule changes. Then the national directors vote on them at the National convention coming up in March. Regardless of how we vote, the last decision is up to the Executive committee made up of 6 people. Those 6 have 100% of the say so.


As someone that shows, I'm not totally aware of what albuterol does etc. But I have seen how hard a long day of showing is on a sound and healthy horse. So if albuterol is compared to what an asthmatic would need, I believe they shouldn't be showing. I don't think the general horse public understands that all these pain meds and drugs encourage those owners to show a horse that otherwise shouldn't be showing. AQHA has their faults but they really are trying to do right by the animal. There are still so many things that need cracked down on IMO the race track, but that is such a team effort and similar to credit card fraud, the more the AQHA cracks down, the wiser the dishonest people get.


 


I know this comment is going to get a ton of backlash, because as I mentioned, eliminating certain drugs will eliminate a lot of entries.  We love our horses and the competition, but the horse can't tell you no. In small shows (and barrel races) in just WY & SD I have seen horses that are not sound enough to be there.  I fought a nasty cough with my own horse for 2 yrs and thought about giving up. I was lucky and we found it was an allergy. Love the horse first, then the sport.


I'm with you, too.  In today's climate of nothing goes un-noticed, misinformation, videos of literally everything, lack of education, PETA, etc., we in the equine industry MUST be the ones to stand up and protect our horses.  Like you, I've seen horses that should be home receiving medical care / rest at shows and races. I applaud the AQHA - and other breed organizations - who are cracking down on drug use and inhumane treatment. Personally, I've approached people at shows who had spurs dug in but were jerking and snatching on a horse's face to make them go slow and firmly, but professionally, let them know they were being watched, should stop immediately and would be reported.  And I've walked up to ask a rider if they were aware their horse was lame on left front, right rear, or whatever.  It's been startling how many times the rider said they had no idea their horse was 'off'.   The animal rights folks' goal is to eliminate all types of competitions involving animals..... they absolutely hate rodeo and horse shows.  Recently, a couple of activists in Europe leaped into the arena half-naked, bodies painted with 'horses are slaves', carrying large signs, and ran around the ring while a rider was jumping a course!  Thankfully, the rider and horse were calm and no one was injured.  Imagine if some of these protesters people ran into the arena here right in the middle of a race and it was a child riding the horse and things went south for the child and horse!  IMHO, it will happen.   Okay - getting off soap box now. 

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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2019-12-03 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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Did they ban lasix too? I remember it being discussed a while back but cant remember if it was banned? I think it was for the track horses maybe?

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wyoming barrel racer
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2019-12-03 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring


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Southtxponygirl - 2019-12-03 1:57 PM


Did they ban lasix too? I remember it being discussed a while back but cant remember if it was banned? I think it was for the track horses maybe?


As far as I remember it is still legal, but there are stipulations how and when it is used. Small amounts of Bute are legal but must be listed on a form at the entry of the show. 

I once saw a judge dismiss 4 or 5 horses in a youth class. All must have appeared off gait. Most of the youth horses are the been there done that kind and mostly used up. Sad really. They are started too young and pushed too hard...in all disciplines. 

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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2019-12-03 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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Albuterol is the human form of clenbuterol. So albuterol use in horses is off label since the horse form is Ventipulmin. Like it or not, any type of clenbuterol does have a steroid effect by allowing lean muscle to be built. It’s a simple fact. 

As for CBD, I’m not sure if there has been any legitimate testing done on how it affects a horse. So until there is third party testing, it probably should be banned in the show pen. 

Let’s face it, barrel racers are notorious for drug abuse. How many people use guanzabenz and recommend it for a nervous horse? How many of us jump on the CBD wagon without even considering if it’s been tested? How many of us have used albuterol because it’s cheaper than Ventipulmin? How many use previcoxx instead of equicoxx because of the price? How many stack banamine and bute? Banamine and dex? Ask about Lasix and you’ll get 50 different answers on the dosage and time out to give it.

I'm sorry, but the barrel horse industry does have a problem when it comes to drug use. People can argue that isn’t the case, and maybe we don’t have a problem with harder core type stuff. But there is still a huge issue with how people willy nilly give meds in the barrel industry.

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madredepeanut
Reg. Aug 2017
Posted 2019-12-03 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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SKM - 2019-12-03 1:49 PM

Albuterol is the human form of clenbuterol. So albuterol use in horses is off label since the horse form is Ventipulmin. Like it or not, any type of clenbuterol does have a steroid effect by allowing lean muscle to be built. It’s a simple fact. 

As for CBD, I’m not sure if there has been any legitimate testing done on how it affects a horse. So until there is third party testing, it probably should be banned in the show pen. 

Let’s face it, barrel racers are notorious for drug abuse. How many people use guanzabenz and recommend it for a nervous horse? How many of us jump on the CBD wagon without even considering if it’s been tested? How many of us have used albuterol because it’s cheaper than Ventipulmin? How many use previcoxx instead of equicoxx because of the price? How many stack banamine and bute? Banamine and dex? Ask about Lasix and you’ll get 50 different answers on the dosage and time out to give it.

I'm sorry, but the barrel horse industry does have a problem when it comes to drug use. People can argue that isn’t the case, and maybe we don’t have a problem with harder core type stuff. But there is still a huge issue with how people willy nilly give meds in the barrel industry.

I agree there is a problem with overuse/abuse of drugs. However, I disagree with the statement that if a horse needs a certain medication they shouldn't be out there competing. If you look at bleeders that need lasix, that shouldn't be a limiting factor on if the horse should be allowed to compete or not. Would you rather see horses die from having a major bleed during a race or barrel race? I think when there is a veterinarian involved and the medical issue is being actively and properly managed, (ie the WPRA allowing certain meds if the proper paperwork has been turned in), then there shouldn't be a problem. If it's an issue where you have to seek out several different vets to get a certain drug because your horse won't go in the gate, or you need something to slightly sedate them and "take the edge off", then those horses definitely should not be competing. 
Albuterol when nebulized does not have an effect on muscle mass, only when injected. So if you have a horse with RAO or heaves or a hay allergy that needs to be nebulized to help their airways (much like an asthmatic), you're saying they shouldn't be allowed to compete? I'm not saying albuterol is the end-all-be-all best choice, there are other drugs better suited for such maladies out there, but how far will this be taken?

ETA: not directed at any one person with my questions, just the collective group in general



Edited by madredepeanut 2019-12-03 4:08 PM
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wyoming barrel racer
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2019-12-03 4:33 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring


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madredepeanut - 2019-12-03 3:06 PM



SKM - 2019-12-03 1:49 PM


Albuterol is the human form of clenbuterol. So albuterol use in horses is off label since the horse form is Ventipulmin. Like it or not, any type of clenbuterol does have a steroid effect by allowing lean muscle to be built. It’s a simple fact. 


As for CBD, I’m not sure if there has been any legitimate testing done on how it affects a horse. So until there is third party testing, it probably should be banned in the show pen. 


Let’s face it, barrel racers are notorious for drug abuse. How many people use guanzabenz and recommend it for a nervous horse? How many of us jump on the CBD wagon without even considering if it’s been tested? How many of us have used albuterol because it’s cheaper than Ventipulmin? How many use previcoxx instead of equicoxx because of the price? How many stack banamine and bute? Banamine and dex? Ask about Lasix and you’ll get 50 different answers on the dosage and time out to give it.


I'm sorry, but the barrel horse industry does have a problem when it comes to drug use. People can argue that isn’t the case, and maybe we don’t have a problem with harder core type stuff. But there is still a huge issue with how people willy nilly give meds in the barrel industry.



I agree there is a problem with overuse/abuse of drugs. However, I disagree with the statement that if a horse needs a certain medication they shouldn't be out there competing. If you look at bleeders that need lasix, that shouldn't be a limiting factor on if the horse should be allowed to compete or not. Would you rather see horses die from having a major bleed during a race or barrel race? I think when there is a veterinarian involved and the medical issue is being actively and properly managed, (ie the WPRA allowing certain meds if the proper paperwork has been turned in), then there shouldn't be a problem. If it's an issue where you have to seek out several different vets to get a certain drug because your horse won't go in the gate, or you need something to slightly sedate them and "take the edge off", then those horses definitely should not be competing. 
Albuterol when nebulized does not have an effect on muscle mass, only when injected. So if you have a horse with RAO or heaves or a hay allergy that needs to be nebulized to help their airways (much like an asthmatic), you're saying they shouldn't be allowed to compete? I'm not saying albuterol is the end-all-be-all best choice, there are other drugs better suited for such maladies out there, but how far will this be taken?


ETA: not directed at any one person with my questions, just the collective group in general


So the show horse world (and I'm fairly new to it) is pretty bad about giving drugs too. I really think it is everywhere. 

Horses that bleed really bad, do you think they would compete if given a choice? I'm on the fence on this one.

I have never owned a bleeder to my knowledge, but speaking with my vet, there are a lot of horses that bleed and we don't know it.

 

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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2019-12-03 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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We have a gelding that is run on Lasix. We have to make decisions based on the drug policy of various associations. If we can’t give it at an AQHA show, then I’ll abide by their rules and not compete there. Let’s face it, how many barrel racers do AQHA  shows? Not many.

As for the nebulizing abuterol, it’s still a drug that tests. So you forego AQHA and go where they allow it. You can’t have one set of rules for reiners and a different set for barrel racers because we don’t want to follow those rules. 

Lasix can cover/hide other drugs. That’s why it’s a problem. A lot of bleeders aren’t true bleeders. You can do a lot with conditioning and following the right protocol for a bleed. But many people rush the process instead of taking the time to let the lungs heal. 

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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2019-12-03 9:02 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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I think its really sad that using drugs for a quick fix to just make a few runs have really gotton outa hand, instead of letting a horse recover from an injury or one that needs to be just plain retired, people have just gotton really dependent on the quick fixes..

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wyoming barrel racer
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2019-12-03 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring


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Southtxponygirl - 2019-12-03 8:02 PM


I think its really sad that using drugs for a quick fix to just make a few runs have really gotton outa hand, instead of letting a horse recover from an injury or one that needs to be just plain retired, people have just gotton really dependent on the quick fixes..


And there lies the problem...money talks, so sad when an animal is in the middle of it.

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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2019-12-04 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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wyoming barrel racer - 2019-12-03 9:19 PM


Southtxponygirl - 2019-12-03 8:02 PM


I think its really sad that using drugs for a quick fix to just make a few runs have really gotton outa hand, instead of letting a horse recover from an injury or one that needs to be just plain retired, people have just gotton really dependent on the quick fixes..



And there lies the problem...money talks, so sad when an animal is in the middle of it.


So So sadly true, instead of letting them heal with time off just bring out the drugs so they can keep running..

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TrailGirl
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2019-12-04 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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One aspect to consider for these breed organizations is they type and quality of horse they want promoted and bred.  A horse that is a bleeder or has other health issues that have to be medicated in order to successfully compete...well...they MAY not be the quality of animal that should be bred to continue to improve the breed.  What wins in the show pen/competition is often what becomes the popular blood line to breed....and in the case of inherited traits or even just line tendencies...that matters.  

Not saying the aged youth horse that has a bit of arthritis should not compete because it needs a bit of bute...but they really can't have different requirements for a bunch of different circumstances.  They have to go with an across the board standard that is enforceable. 

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wyoming barrel racer
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2019-12-04 9:54 PM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring


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TrailGirl - 2019-12-04 1:44 PM


One aspect to consider for these breed organizations is they type and quality of horse they want promoted and bred.  A horse that is a bleeder or has other health issues that have to be medicated in order to successfully compete...well...they MAY not be the quality of animal that should be bred to continue to improve the breed.  What wins in the show pen/competition is often what becomes the popular blood line to breed....and in the case of inherited traits or even just line tendencies...that matters.  


Not saying the aged youth horse that has a bit of arthritis should not compete because it needs a bit of bute...but they really can't have different requirements for a bunch of different circumstances.  They have to go with an across the board standard that is enforceable. 


Excellent point. And how many of these very big winners are terribly infertile but we do our dangdest to get foals by a stallion or out of a mare. Fertility is very much heriditary as anyone in the cattle business knows. We have bred down so many reproductive issues that entire lines of stallions have been known to be borderline infertile, mares are the same. With todays technology I don't feel it will ever bite  us in the butt...just make having a foal more expensive as we already see with certain stallions requiring deep horn insemination or ICSI right from the start.  Mares that have to be kept on Regumate, caslicked etc etc. My husband is a rancher and believes in a salvage value. Our mares are all non-issue producers. If they don't have a foal, we will at most give them 1 year to be cleaned by a vet and then they are rebred. If open yr 2, they are sold. We also sell our older girls when they get mid teens so they still have a salvage value as he calls it. This is a business for us, we do NOT use ranch money to pay for the horses. So when the mares get 16 or so we sell them so they still have a value and are able to give someone else a few more babies. We do not caslick anything. If they need it, they are cleaned, stitched and sold. It really stinks when it is a favorite or one we paid a pretty penny for, but in the long run we don't have any issues with what we keep down the line. It also goes for poor feet etc. We rarely have to shoe any of our ranch horses. Being picky in the beginning is how we are able to make it work.

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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2019-12-05 5:35 AM
Subject: RE: No CBD in the AQHA Show Ring



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A lot of fertility issues are man made, especially in stallions. Those studs kept on regumate to counteract studish behavior are the ones with the biggest fertility issues.

Most caslicks are more of a preventative measure than a necessary thing to hold a pregnancy.  Unless the mare is old. Then a caslicks is needed. 



Edited by SKM 2019-12-05 5:38 AM
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