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Kissing spine sugery-good news and bad news

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GLP
Reg. Oct 2013
Posted 2020-10-04 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: Well I did it! Kissing spine sugery


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JLazyT_perf_horses - 2020-09-28 11:09 AM


Surgery is $1,500 here (out the door total), but thats for the ligament snip. Not bone shave. For the ligament snip they just sedate them like they would hocks, and do it standing. It's also always significantly less if you let a college do it, but I prefer paying the extra for an experienced specialist and not a guided student doing that sort of thing. The ligament cut is what they want to do on mine, since she's more mild than yours. But glad yours got home safely and best of luck on the recovery process!  


Could you explain the ligament snip procedure? Why the vet recommended it and what is supposed to help? This is all so interesting!

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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2020-10-05 2:11 PM
Subject: RE: Well I did it! Kissing spine sugery



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GLP - 2020-10-04 11:20 AM


JLazyT_perf_horses - 2020-09-28 11:09 AM


Surgery is $1,500 here (out the door total), but thats for the ligament snip. Not bone shave. For the ligament snip they just sedate them like they would hocks, and do it standing. It's also always significantly less if you let a college do it, but I prefer paying the extra for an experienced specialist and not a guided student doing that sort of thing. The ligament cut is what they want to do on mine, since she's more mild than yours. But glad yours got home safely and best of luck on the recovery process!  



Could you explain the ligament snip procedure? Why the vet recommended it and what is supposed to help? This is all so interesting!


They cut the ligaments to relieve the pressure between vertebrae and increase the space between them. It is done sedated, but still standing up 

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Turnburnsis
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2020-10-06 6:00 AM
Subject: RE: Well I did it! Kissing spine sugery


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JLazyT_perf_horses - 2020-10-05 2:11 PM


GLP - 2020-10-04 11:20 AM


JLazyT_perf_horses - 2020-09-28 11:09 AM


Surgery is $1,500 here (out the door total), but thats for the ligament snip. Not bone shave. For the ligament snip they just sedate them like they would hocks, and do it standing. It's also always significantly less if you let a college do it, but I prefer paying the extra for an experienced specialist and not a guided student doing that sort of thing. The ligament cut is what they want to do on mine, since she's more mild than yours. But glad yours got home safely and best of luck on the recovery process!  



Could you explain the ligament snip procedure? Why the vet recommended it and what is supposed to help? This is all so interesting!



They cut the ligaments to relieve the pressure between vertebrae and increase the space between them. It is done sedated, but still standing up 


My horse was laid on his side.  And Dr. Honnas said that he lays them on their sides now bc who wants to have back surgery and not be asleep (he said this on a Webinar).  And he said he gets a better feel.  Mine also had bone shaved and was more intensive than just the ligament, he had both.

Everything still going good except one thing and I am sure that its probably normal at least I hope and I will be calling vet today to ask.  But when you pick up on the right front foot he hesitates and he no longer wants to roll (he has always rolled everyday at least once) and he was fighting me to roll before this past Friday and I finally get the ok to let him and now he doesnt want to.  But the hesitation is more than what it was right after surgery.  I pick his feet up to clean them.  .It is also the foot/leg that he would elevate off and on before surgery when he would pick up a lope.   

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Turnburnsis
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2020-10-07 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-staples out


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Good thing I talked to vet yesterday! lol  First of all I know he had surgery, but it doesnt make it easy to see the downs.  and we had one today.  Yesterday when I talked to vet he said its not unusal that he is a little off on one leg (by off I mean when I pick it up he hesitate, but walking great!)  and main thing is any swelling or heat.  And he said some horses will show nothing as far as pain and then there is some that shows alot.

 

Today when walking he wanted to roll and since vet said it was ok I let him.  He got bout 1/2 way down and then he tried to get back up and did struggle and then once he got up he wouldnt put any weight on the right front and he tried to take a couple steps forward and couldnt put any weight on it. then he just spread all four legs and kinda hung his head and had a look on his face!  My heart did drop! and was so mad that I let him try to roll! but then after a few seconds he straigtened himself up and took a couple tenative steps and then walked a couple normal steps and starting eating grass like nothing happened! and he was able to walk the rest of the time just fine.  I really think that if he had gotten down Im not sure if he would have been able to get up! Maybe it just felt really weird to him.  I dont know but it wasnt pretty!

 

I go to get recheck next Friday.  I am going to ask him some questions like when was the last day of his pain meds and is that why he was able to roll the first day home in his stall and thats why he cant roll now bc meds wore off?

Since the ligament was snipped what happens to ligament next? 

I am calling tomorrow to ask if I should be walking more or just let him eat grass.  He getting where he just wants to eat grass and doesnt care if we walk.  I dont know if he should be walking so we using some muscles or if its just to get out of the stall a bit. 

So if you guys have any questions that you want to know or that I should ask tell me!

 



Edited by Turnburnsis 2020-10-07 7:16 PM
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BS Hauler
Reg. Jan 2012
Posted 2020-10-09 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-2 1/2 weeks since surgery


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We have not talked to Iowa State yet. But when you go back.  Ask them What if I don't have a stall to put one in for recovery.  Can I just leave her in a small pasture by herself.

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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2020-10-09 7:03 PM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-2 1/2 weeks since surgery



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BS Hauler - 2020-10-09 3:26 PM


We have not talked to Iowa State yet. But when you go back.  Ask them What if I don't have a stall to put one in for recovery.  Can I just leave her in a small pasture by herself.


With that type of surgery I would stall. Since you dont have a stall I would buy some portable panels and a make smaller area/pen.. 

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Turnburnsis
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2020-10-11 5:53 AM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-2 1/2 weeks since surgery


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BS Hauler - 2020-10-09 3:26 PM


We have not talked to Iowa State yet. But when you go back.  Ask them What if I don't have a stall to put one in for recovery.  Can I just leave her in a small pasture by herself.


When I went to pick up horse he said that he didnt want the horse moving alot.  and had to be put in stall for at least 45 days.  He said that the ligament is what takes so long.  I dont know for other horses, but when I first got home he wanted to run and kick up but he also realized now that he not ready for all that! He is very protective on what he does now! but he still moving really nice!

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BS Hauler
Reg. Jan 2012
Posted 2020-10-11 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-2 1/2 weeks since surgery


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I have 14 16 ft corral panels  but not a building to put her in. 

We might have to wait till next summer to have her operation as we are in northern Iowa. 

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Turnburnsis
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2020-10-14 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-2 1/2 weeks since surgery


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I talked to vet yesterday bc the right leg when you pick it up and raise it to clean foot out he winces and we noticed that he has a bulge that shouldnt be there at the top of shoulder when you pick it up.  we think that he may have his shoulder out of whack so thats why I called vet yesterday and got the ok to take to chiro, but to make sure that he is really easy with him!

The chiros I go to is really gentle anyways and was able to get into one tomorrow night. and then he goes sees the vet on Friday for his recheck! 

I cannot believe it has been almost 30 days the 18th!!!!

 

His eyes still soft and he still moves really nice! and he is still handling the stall really nice too!

I forgot to ask again bout what we do at recheck! guess I'll find out Friday!

and I did ask him bout the ligament, he says it will grow back together.

Also, the stall is just to keep him from running and hoping he doesnt buck in stall.  But you can walk however long you want too.  He can walk all day if I wanted to walk him that much as long as he doesnt jump around and be stupid.  But since the shoulder thing (which I think he did it backing out of trailer and trying to roll and got himself in a bind) all he wants to do is eat grass he doesnt care if he walks. 

Also the bumps from the stitches and surgery are lots smaller!  some are completely gone! 

cant wait for recheck!

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Turnburnsis
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2020-10-18 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-good news and bad news


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.

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jake16
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2020-10-18 8:52 AM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-good news and bad news


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???

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Turnburnsis
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2020-10-18 9:37 AM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-good news and bad news


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Sorry! I was having trouble posting earlier and I guess I lost post!

I was not able to see Dr. Hand bc he was in surgery but I did see a lady vet but I dont remember her name.

The good news is that they xrayed his back and he doing really good! not sore in back and his xrays look like they supposed to.  There is some small changes but they said that is completely normal. 

Bad news is that his knee is extremely sore when you pick it up to bend it. 

He has a bone chip/shard that is attached to the back of the knee.  Vet says usually its the ligament that is painful not the bone.  and to see how much damage or any would need to do MRI. which I have no money for.  She said that normal protocol is stall rest and injecting.  She also said that surgery really not an option bc back of the knee the prognosis is not very good.  Which in this horses case I wouldnt do the surgery if it was any optiong so the MRI would be out of the picture anyways.    In his case the injection would be the upper joint.  so again it proves to xray before you inject bc the normal is injecting the bottom joints.  Without xrays we wouldnt know to inject the tops.  this is good to know when he starts running again.

 

I AM NOT BLAMING ANYONE!  Any surgery comes with alot of risks and this is just one of the things that happened.  I dont believe he got the bone chip but I do believe he got the damage/inflamed ligament from the lifting on and off the surgery table bc I did his feet 2 days before surgery. (I do myself) and he had no problem letting me do the feet and he had no problem loading in trailer. 

When I picked him up after surgery he walked like a million bucks! but he couldnt put any weight on his right front leg (chip) to load in trailer.  I thought it was bc he was sore from the surgery! I wish I could rewind time and went back into the clinic and say hey he cant put weight on the front leg.  Then I could have already started treating the leg instead of 30 days later!  I'm hoping that it is inflamed only from the surgery bc of the way they lift them up to get to the table.  But Ill be honest I'm afraid that more damange is done from the lifting than just inflamed.  He is worse on the knee as time goes on and he had been in the stall for 30 days already. 

The vet said another 30 days in stall and I did message Dr. Hand and he said minimal walking for 2 weeks just let him graze.

I will do runners relief, icing, and my respond leg piece. and of course PRAYING!

If he doesnt get over the knee he will be done and be a pasture pet.  But I'm not giving up yet!

I hope this helps someone! I know I learned a valuable lesson! If I ever go thru a surgery again and something not right I'm not going to assume its from surgery.  and If I know they have bone chip to be sure and let surgeon know, which in this case we had no idea. 

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WiscoRacer
Reg. Jul 2015
Posted 2020-10-19 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-good news and bad news


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Turnburnsis - 2020-10-18 9:37 AM


Sorry! I was having trouble posting earlier and I guess I lost post!


I was not able to see Dr. Hand bc he was in surgery but I did see a lady vet but I dont remember her name.


The good news is that they xrayed his back and he doing really good! not sore in back and his xrays look like they supposed to.  There is some small changes but they said that is completely normal. 


Bad news is that his knee is extremely sore when you pick it up to bend it. 


He has a bone chip/shard that is attached to the back of the knee.  Vet says usually its the ligament that is painful not the bone.  and to see how much damage or any would need to do MRI. which I have no money for.  She said that normal protocol is stall rest and injecting.  She also said that surgery really not an option bc back of the knee the prognosis is not very good.  Which in this horses case I wouldnt do the surgery if it was any optiong so the MRI would be out of the picture anyways.    In his case the injection would be the upper joint.  so again it proves to xray before you inject bc the normal is injecting the bottom joints.  Without xrays we wouldnt know to inject the tops.  this is good to know when he starts running again.


 


I AM NOT BLAMING ANYONE!  Any surgery comes with alot of risks and this is just one of the things that happened.  I dont believe he got the bone chip but I do believe he got the damage/inflamed ligament from the lifting on and off the surgery table bc I did his feet 2 days before surgery. (I do myself) and he had no problem letting me do the feet and he had no problem loading in trailer. 


When I picked him up after surgery he walked like a million bucks! but he couldnt put any weight on his right front leg (chip) to load in trailer.  I thought it was bc he was sore from the surgery! I wish I could rewind time and went back into the clinic and say hey he cant put weight on the front leg.  Then I could have already started treating the leg instead of 30 days later!  I'm hoping that it is inflamed only from the surgery bc of the way they lift them up to get to the table.  But Ill be honest I'm afraid that more damange is done from the lifting than just inflamed.  He is worse on the knee as time goes on and he had been in the stall for 30 days already. 


The vet said another 30 days in stall and I did message Dr. Hand and he said minimal walking for 2 weeks just let him graze.


I will do runners relief, icing, and my respond leg piece. and of course PRAYING!


If he doesnt get over the knee he will be done and be a pasture pet.  But I'm not giving up yet!


I hope this helps someone! I know I learned a valuable lesson! If I ever go thru a surgery again and something not right I'm not going to assume its from surgery.  and If I know they have bone chip to be sure and let surgeon know, which in this case we had no idea. 


Look into Noltrex for injecting his knee. Try the normal steroid first to get the swelling down but if he needs injecting again, I'd highly recommend noltrex. My gelding is trying to grow himself a new knee and I've been able to keep him sound this way. 

 

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Turnburnsis
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2020-10-19 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-good news and bad news


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Location: Oklahoma

WiscoRacer - 2020-10-19 11:16 AM


Turnburnsis - 2020-10-18 9:37 AM


Sorry! I was having trouble posting earlier and I guess I lost post!


I was not able to see Dr. Hand bc he was in surgery but I did see a lady vet but I dont remember her name.


The good news is that they xrayed his back and he doing really good! not sore in back and his xrays look like they supposed to.  There is some small changes but they said that is completely normal. 


Bad news is that his knee is extremely sore when you pick it up to bend it. 


He has a bone chip/shard that is attached to the back of the knee.  Vet says usually its the ligament that is painful not the bone.  and to see how much damage or any would need to do MRI. which I have no money for.  She said that normal protocol is stall rest and injecting.  She also said that surgery really not an option bc back of the knee the prognosis is not very good.  Which in this horses case I wouldnt do the surgery if it was any optiong so the MRI would be out of the picture anyways.    In his case the injection would be the upper joint.  so again it proves to xray before you inject bc the normal is injecting the bottom joints.  Without xrays we wouldnt know to inject the tops.  this is good to know when he starts running again.


 


I AM NOT BLAMING ANYONE!  Any surgery comes with alot of risks and this is just one of the things that happened.  I dont believe he got the bone chip but I do believe he got the damage/inflamed ligament from the lifting on and off the surgery table bc I did his feet 2 days before surgery. (I do myself) and he had no problem letting me do the feet and he had no problem loading in trailer. 


When I picked him up after surgery he walked like a million bucks! but he couldnt put any weight on his right front leg (chip) to load in trailer.  I thought it was bc he was sore from the surgery! I wish I could rewind time and went back into the clinic and say hey he cant put weight on the front leg.  Then I could have already started treating the leg instead of 30 days later!  I'm hoping that it is inflamed only from the surgery bc of the way they lift them up to get to the table.  But Ill be honest I'm afraid that more damange is done from the lifting than just inflamed.  He is worse on the knee as time goes on and he had been in the stall for 30 days already. 


The vet said another 30 days in stall and I did message Dr. Hand and he said minimal walking for 2 weeks just let him graze.


I will do runners relief, icing, and my respond leg piece. and of course PRAYING!


If he doesnt get over the knee he will be done and be a pasture pet.  But I'm not giving up yet!


I hope this helps someone! I know I learned a valuable lesson! If I ever go thru a surgery again and something not right I'm not going to assume its from surgery.  and If I know they have bone chip to be sure and let surgeon know, which in this case we had no idea. 



Look into Noltrex for injecting his knee. Try the normal steroid first to get the swelling down but if he needs injecting again, I'd highly recommend noltrex. My gelding is trying to grow himself a new knee and I've been able to keep him sound this way. 


 



Thank you! I will!

 

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babbsywabbsy
Reg. Feb 2016
Posted 2020-10-19 2:07 PM
Subject: RE: Kissing spine sugery-good news and bad news


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Keep your chin up and stay positive. 

Prayers from Tennessee!

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