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Explain O rings to me

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CanCan
Reg. May 2004
Posted 2022-09-15 12:15 PM
Subject: Explain O rings to me


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I've never been a fan, but my vet wants me to but up a gelding to build his topline. Should is use a regular or a locked?

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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2022-09-15 1:30 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me



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O rings are about all I own, but pick whichever one you think your horse will like. I personally like 3 piece with dogbone or cricket. And I like curved mouthpieces vs straight. For bitting up I just use a locked 3 piece smooth dogbone. Its what I ride everything in as well so its cosistent. The more important part is bitting up at the correct lenth vs what type of snaffle you use. For topline you use side reins, the horse needs to be able to get into the long & low position. Do not go between the front legs to the girth, don't get their necks tucked, or their faces behind the vertical, or you'll just get the opposite result. I've done extensive topline building for the last 3 years on my KS horse. You can accomplish topline strength a lot with belly lifts also, easy to do while grooming. Have them lift slowly and hold 15-20 seconds and release slowly. 3-4x a day 

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r_beau
Reg. Apr 2010
Posted 2022-09-15 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me



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CanCan - 2022-09-15 12:15 PM


I've never been a fan, but my vet wants me to but up a gelding to build his topline. Should is use a regular or a locked?


A horse's topline is built by asking them to travel in a CORRECT and COLLECTED manner. It has nothing to do with what bit you put in their mouth. You ride with your seat and legs in order to get a horse to travel correctly, through training, over time. The bit is just your tool and is only there for support of the other things you are doing.

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CanCan
Reg. May 2004
Posted 2022-09-15 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me


Military family

Keeper of the King Snake


Posts: 7259
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Location: Dubach, LA

r_beau - 2022-09-15 1:43 PM


CanCan - 2022-09-15 12:15 PM


I've never been a fan, but my vet wants me to but up a gelding to build his topline. Should is use a regular or a locked?



A horse's topline is built by asking them to travel in a CORRECT and COLLECTED manner. It has nothing to do with what bit you put in their mouth. You ride with your seat and legs in order to get a horse to travel correctly, through training, over time. The bit is just your tool and is only there for support of the other things you are doing.


Maybe it would help if m fingers weren't so big. Bit. Not but. $2300 into vet bills. I'm biting him up. I didn't haul all the way to MSU to ignore the orthopedic vet. Do I know you? 

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CanCan
Reg. May 2004
Posted 2022-09-15 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me


Military family

Keeper of the King Snake


Posts: 7259
500020001001002525
Location: Dubach, LA

JLazyT_perf_horses - 2022-09-15 1:30 PM


O rings are about all I own, but pick whichever one you think your horse will like. I personally like 3 piece with dogbone or cricket. And I like curved mouthpieces vs straight. For bitting up I just use a locked 3 piece smooth dogbone. Its what I ride everything in as well so its cosistent. The more important part is bitting up at the correct lenth vs what type of snaffle you use. For topline you use side reins, the horse needs to be able to get into the long & low position. Do not go between the front legs to the girth, don't get their necks tucked, or their faces behind the vertical, or you'll just get the opposite result. I've done extensive topline building for the last 3 years on my KS horse. You can accomplish topline strength a lot with belly lifts also, easy to do while grooming. Have them lift slowly and hold 15-20 seconds and release slowly. 3-4x a day 


Could you send me pics? Friend me on Fb? I'd really like to see. Going through legs is all I've done. Possible KS here too. 

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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2022-09-15 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me



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Picture isn't perfect, she's overly senstive about bits so sometimes she puts herself behind the vertical. This smooth 3 piece dogbone is actually somehow too much bit when riding, but she also hates hackamores and will about flip over with any kind of shank. But this was the only photo I have of her in the side reins. It's a little older, but you can see they arent restricting her, she could put her nose out if she chose or can lift her head also. She learned to put her head down and crave that contact after awhile, and sometimes she just snifs the ground the whole time. But you can vaguely see her back is lifted under the saddle pad. If you don't have a surcingle just clip to your girth rings where you attach the billets/latigos, or I just bought the cheap Tough 1 surcingle since I do this 2-3 days a week with her 

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Nateracer
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2022-09-15 2:52 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me



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I agree with the above poster who said it really shouldn't be in the bit.  I can make my horse collect in a halter if I want them to.  I have no idea what you're using now, but if you don't like snaffles, don't use one.   That can be worse for the simple fact of if you're simply pulling, you'll cause them to gape and pull back against the reins instead of collecting.  A snaffle won't make a horse collect.

 

If your horse can't collect with your current equipment, find someone who can help you get them to do so instead of throwing money into things you aren't comfortable with.   I don't care who your vet is....that doesn't mean they can train a horse. 

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CanCan
Reg. May 2004
Posted 2022-09-15 3:02 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me


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Nateracer - 2022-09-15 2:52 PM

I agree with the above poster who said it really shouldn't be in the bit.  I can make my horse collect in a halter if I want them to.  I have no idea what you're using now, but if you don't like snaffles, don't use one.   That can be worse for the simple fact of if you're simply pulling, you'll cause them to gape and pull back against the reins instead of collecting.  A snaffle won't make a horse collect.

 

If your horse can't collect with your current equipment, find someone who can help you get them to do so instead of throwing money into things you aren't comfortable with.   I don't care who your vet is....that doesn't mean they can train a horse. 

I'm not riding horse. I'm supposed to bit him up to build back before I ride. D*mn. This is why people left here in droves. Know it alls. Every English disciple does this. Guess what? Very few English ridden horses have KS. 



Edited by CanCan 2022-09-15 3:05 PM
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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2022-09-15 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me



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Nateracer - 2022-09-15 2:52 PM


I agree with the above poster who said it really shouldn't be in the bit.  I can make my horse collect in a halter if I want them to.  I have no idea what you're using now, but if you don't like snaffles, don't use one.   That can be worse for the simple fact of if you're simply pulling, you'll cause them to gape and pull back against the reins instead of collecting.  A snaffle won't make a horse collect.


 


If your horse can't collect with your current equipment, find someone who can help you get them to do so instead of throwing money into things you aren't comfortable with.   I don't care who your vet is....that doesn't mean they can train a horse. 


With years of dealing with KS and multiple vets and specialists I can tell you that lunging or driving in some type of system (pessoa, equiami,etc) or "bitting up" is always the first go to recommendation from them to build topline and a strong core. That and ground poles or cavalettis. Her vet is absolutely correct in that recommendation, she just needs to do it in the right way. Snaffle is generally the easiest for that method, as long as the length and placement of the rein aids are correct they horse should slowly learn how to carry itself. Mine started with her head in the air, full giraffe mode and flying around like a rocket. After several weeks she naturally started to go into the above position, which she would spend short bursts of time in. And then just began to stay like that longer and longer each time. You could probably create the same effect with putting side reins on a halter or side pull if thats what the horse might prefer, just might be harder to achieve in that sense. Easier for them to brace against nose pressure is all 

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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2022-09-15 3:20 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me


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Locked snaffle will have less bite than an a loose ring.3 pc has less bite than a 2 pc. I bit some up with a Chain Don Dodge snaffle. I don't want them passed vertical and I dont want them pushing down (long and low), i want them  wither level or slightly higher. 

Bitting a horse up is not going to build topline. 

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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2022-09-15 4:18 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me



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Liana D - 2022-09-15 3:20 PM


Locked snaffle will have less bite than an a loose ring.3 pc has less bite than a 2 pc. I bit some up with a Chain Don Dodge snaffle. I don't want them passed vertical and I dont want them pushing down (long and low), i want them  wither level or slightly higher. 


Bitting a horse up is not going to build topline. 


I disagree with that completely, I've had a lot of success with topline bitting one up. Some people have different meanings for bitting up though, some tie heads to tails or stirrups and call that bitting up. Some tie their face to their chest with lead ropes clipped to the bit, run through the front legs and tied up on their back. When a vet is talking bitting up for topline, they mean side reins or Pessoa system type deal. And I disagree with the bitting up not working because I've had massive success with it on a horse I couldn't ride. Thats how you get through KS rehab for the majority of the time, either by lunge or driving.

BFA facebook shared a sorrel mare on an MVP ad for their new Amino15x the other day and I believe its on an email MVP sent out today, but my photo above is exactly how that mare got to look like that. Her back is held higher naturally and she bulked up from using her body correctly. That was entirely done by walking and trotting in my pictured side reins, and some in hand backing. I sent those photos to MVP awhile back also and she's even bigger and her topline is far better now than in those photos. So its very possible to build a topline by bitting up, its all in the "how" you bit one up 

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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2022-09-15 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me


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Location: Claremore, OK

JLazyT_perf_horses - 2022-09-15 4:18 PM


Liana D - 2022-09-15 3:20 PM


Locked snaffle will have less bite than an a loose ring.3 pc has less bite than a 2 pc. I bit some up with a Chain Don Dodge snaffle. I don't want them passed vertical and I dont want them pushing down (long and low), i want them  wither level or slightly higher. 


Bitting a horse up is not going to build topline. 



I disagree with that completely, I've had a lot of success with topline bitting one up. Some people have different meanings for bitting up though, some tie heads to tails or stirrups and call that bitting up. Some tie their face to their chest with lead ropes clipped to the bit, run through the front legs and tied up on their back. When a vet is talking bitting up for topline, they mean side reins or Pessoa system type deal. And I disagree with the bitting up not working because I've had massive success with it on a horse I couldn't ride. Thats how you get through KS rehab for the majority of the time, either by lunge or driving.


BFA facebook shared a sorrel mare on an MVP ad for their new Amino15x the other day and I believe its on an email MVP sent out today, but my photo above is exactly how that mare got to look like that. Her back is held higher naturally and she bulked up from using her body correctly. That was entirely done by walking and trotting in my pictured side reins, and some in hand backing. I sent those photos to MVP awhile back also and she's even bigger and her topline is far better now than in those photos. So its very possible to build a topline by bitting up, its all in the "how" you bit one up 


"Bitting up " is not going to build topline. Bitting up, correctly, and working in the roundpen or lunge line, yes. 

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GLP
Reg. Oct 2013
Posted 2022-09-16 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me


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CanCan - 2022-09-15 3:02 PM



Nateracer - 2022-09-15 2:52 PM


I agree with the above poster who said it really shouldn't be in the bit.  I can make my horse collect in a halter if I want them to.  I have no idea what you're using now, but if you don't like snaffles, don't use one.   That can be worse for the simple fact of if you're simply pulling, you'll cause them to gape and pull back against the reins instead of collecting.  A snaffle won't make a horse collect.


 


If your horse can't collect with your current equipment, find someone who can help you get them to do so instead of throwing money into things you aren't comfortable with.   I don't care who your vet is....that doesn't mean they can train a horse. 



I'm not riding horse. I'm supposed to bit him up to build back before I ride. D*mn. This is why people left here in droves. Know it alls. Every English disciple does this. Guess what? Very few English ridden horses have KS. 


There is a group on Facebook, No Back No Horse that is all about how to bring back a horse from kissing spine or other injuries. Much of it is done with groundwork. These are serious horsemen/women, not just random people suggesting random ****. I don't have a horse with KS but I have an older gelding I am wanting to start riding again who doesn't have the strongest of top lines. I am going to start with some of their groundwork. 

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Nateracer
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2022-09-16 12:06 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me



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Posts: 5243
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CanCan - 2022-09-15 3:02 PM



Nateracer - 2022-09-15 2:52 PM


I agree with the above poster who said it really shouldn't be in the bit.  I can make my horse collect in a halter if I want them to.  I have no idea what you're using now, but if you don't like snaffles, don't use one.   That can be worse for the simple fact of if you're simply pulling, you'll cause them to gape and pull back against the reins instead of collecting.  A snaffle won't make a horse collect.


 


If your horse can't collect with your current equipment, find someone who can help you get them to do so instead of throwing money into things you aren't comfortable with.   I don't care who your vet is....that doesn't mean they can train a horse. 



I'm not riding horse. I'm supposed to bit him up to build back before I ride. D*mn. This is why people left here in droves. Know it alls. Every English disciple does this. Guess what? Very few English ridden horses have KS. 


My apologies...  I didn't read carefully enough and thought you were just told to switch bits. 

However, I will say I've seen several bitted horses and their mouths were ripped apart at the edges due to the bit being in the wrong place.  With an eggbutt snaffle!  Let's just say that person didn't receive many positive recommendations.   

I'd suggest looking for an English barn near you for assistance if at all possible.  

 

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Ricki
Reg. May 2021
Posted 2022-09-17 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me


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My explanation for what it is worth when bitting one up.  A loose ring makes it harder for a horse to lean on the bit because it has more movement than a fixed ring.  The fixed ring stays solid in the mouth and is good for horses with sensitive corners of their mouth or that like to play with the bit.  

When I bit one up  I prefer a full cheek smooth mouth or slow twist snaffle if the horse isn’t one to lean otherwise I go with an o-ring with bit guards and sometimes even a leather curb strap to keep the bit from pulling through the sides of the mouth.  I have used a side pull too. 

If I am working on topline just through ground work I like using the concept of the pessoa lunging system.  You can rig one up on your own.  I like to bring one up off a layoff rigging them up like this, a little bit each day.  

There used to be some good KS groups on facebook and still might be.  

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r_beau
Reg. Apr 2010
Posted 2022-09-19 1:45 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me



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Posts: 2862
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CanCan - 2022-09-15 1:55 PM


JLazyT_perf_horses - 2022-09-15 1:30 PM


O rings are about all I own, but pick whichever one you think your horse will like. I personally like 3 piece with dogbone or cricket. And I like curved mouthpieces vs straight. For bitting up I just use a locked 3 piece smooth dogbone. Its what I ride everything in as well so its cosistent. The more important part is bitting up at the correct lenth vs what type of snaffle you use. For topline you use side reins, the horse needs to be able to get into the long & low position. Do not go between the front legs to the girth, don't get their necks tucked, or their faces behind the vertical, or you'll just get the opposite result. I've done extensive topline building for the last 3 years on my KS horse. You can accomplish topline strength a lot with belly lifts also, easy to do while grooming. Have them lift slowly and hold 15-20 seconds and release slowly. 3-4x a day 



Could you send me pics? Friend me on Fb? I'd really like to see. Going through legs is all I've done. Possible KS here too. 


It is much easier to provide appropriate information and details AHEAD of time, instead of jumping down people's throats who are trying to help. Wow.

Picture provided above by another poster is an absolute FALSE frame and will do nothing for your horse. The back is hollow, ribcage not engaged, total peanut roller stance that is throwing all the weight on the front end of the horse. 

 

Good luck.

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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2022-09-19 3:11 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me



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Interesting. I guess I missed you in the arena that day phyisically observing my horse move and there after months to witness apparently no topline change on my animal. I guess if you're not there to see outside of that photo, you wouldn't know how lifted & hind end driven that actually is in that moment for her compared to how she'd work previous. I've also discussed with the poster that this photo was a work in progress and simply meant to show her my side rein setup. To each their own though. This forum is getting so awful, I'm only on sporadically but I'm starting see why everyone left. Every single post turns into a ****ing contest 

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CanCan
Reg. May 2004
Posted 2022-09-19 8:09 PM
Subject: RE: Explain O rings to me


Military family

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Location: Dubach, LA

JLazyT_perf_horses - 2022-09-19 3:11 PM


Interesting. I guess I missed you in the arena that day phyisically observing my horse move and there after months to witness apparently no topline change on my animal. I guess if you're not there to see outside of that photo, you wouldn't know how lifted & hind end driven that actually is in that moment for her compared to how she'd work previous. I've also discussed with the poster that this photo was a work in progress and simply meant to show her my side rein setup. To each their own though. This forum is getting so awful, I'm only on sporadically but I'm starting see why everyone left. Every single post turns into a ****ing contest 


I agree. Most of the kind and knowledgeable people left years ago. It makes me sad. 

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