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 Party Girl
Posts: 12293
   
Location: Buffalo, Wyoming | Has anyone ever had this procedure done? What made you go this route?
Any Pros or Cons to it?
I have a 16 year old mare that has not fused yet and it is causing her all sorts of pain. We injected her on Monday and I will start riding her again next week. In a couple of months we will have x-rays done again to see if might have started fusing on her own ( I am doubtful). If she hasn't the vet suggested 2 things #1 injecting the hock with alcohol or #2 surgery.
I know with the alcohol injections that will have to do a contrast dye first to make sure nothing is going into the top joint. At this point surgery is out of the questions.
Any experince with injecting to fuse would be greatly appreciated.
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I've heard there's something fairly new where they now use a laser and fuse it that way. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1261
| My mare went completely lame all of a sudden in December when we took her to the lameness vet and got the xrays he said she had the top ten worst hocks he had ever seen and hes old and been around a lot of track horses. Anyway he said he artritus was a 10 out of 10 and though one side looked completely fuzzed the other side needed to fuse to relieve the pain. She had also fractured a small piece off that was trying to fuse back on. He said you never want them to fuse but if they are already in such bad condition its going to happen and its the only thing that can relieve pain and possibly have them sound again. He said either turn her out and it will slowly fuse or do the injection and try to speed it up and relieve some pain. We did it and saw no improvement at all. She was out to pasture for about 5 months and seemed to be getting worse not better so last month we went back for new xrays. Xrays looked nearly identical, just the slightest improvement. We chose to do it a second time and the vet said it was the first time in his career he had needed to do it twice. He also did a quartazone shot where the fracture was. There has been improvement this time. Before the second visit she could not pick up either hind foot and had difficulty walking now she is sound at the walk and can easily lift all four feet. Though at any other gait you can tell she is in pain. He also put her on a bute regimine. This time he said there is a possible surgery where he would clip a certain tendon and see if that would help but he said it was very old school, they used to do it to all the race TBs to try to prevent issues but he said its not commonly done and whether it works is controversial. He wanted her to come in every month and be injected again till she was sound. However with two other horses and having just found out I am pregnant there is no way I can afford that. It certainty was not a quick fix for my mare but I think she is kind of a worst case scenario |
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Expert
Posts: 1261
| My vet talked about the laser thing but said it was extremely painful for the horse |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | wishes4kissez - 2013-07-19 5:35 PM My vet talked about the laser thing but said it was extremely painful for the horse It was my understanding that alcohol and drilling are also pretty painful. I was told it was a lot quicker.
Edited by casualdust07 2013-07-19 5:53 PM
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| My 9 year old mare isn't fused either. She's intermittently lame. She also has moderate arthritis. CSU said they normally do the drilling procedure to fuse and not alcohol. |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | Considering the fusing of the hock is very painful for a horse naturally, I would not worry about which is less painful but whatever is fastest.. I have never had to deal with this but that is just my opinion. |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| UTAHCANCHASER - 2013-07-20 3:17 PM Has anyone ever had this procedure done? What made you go this route?
Any Pros or Cons to it?
I have a 16 year old mare that has not fused yet and it is causing her all sorts of pain. We injected her on Monday and I will start riding her again next week. In a couple of months we will have x-rays done again to see if might have started fusing on her own ( I am doubtful). If she hasn't the vet suggested 2 things #1 injecting the hock with alcohol or #2 surgery.
I know with the alcohol injections that will have to do a contrast dye first to make sure nothing is going into the top joint. At this point surgery is out of the questions.
Any experince with injecting to fuse would be greatly appreciated.
i rode a hunter under saddle horse..... huge world champion caliber......and he came up lame.... so they went to the vet and he said to do this prosedure.... well it didnt work and he has never been sound since..... then they tried surgery.... still lame.... i wouldnt do it but ive seen the bad side of it.. but this horse was 18 hands tall out of a 15 had mare and by dynamic dyelux (sp) |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | I just went through this and we didn't do either of those. He said that by using the horse, you help them fuse faster. by injecting with cortisone, it eats away the cartilage and causes the joint to fuse faster.
By using the horse, it makes the joint lay calcium there. Turning the horse out will make it fuse slower, and the horse will hurt no matter what.
So, we injected the hock, I rode her and used banamine or bute EVERY time I did anything on the pattern at speed. This kept her from developing any bad habits due to pain.
Every time she would tell us it was time, which was about every 6-8 weeks, we went back and he would inject her and xray her. Finally done. She has some arthritic changes in her hock which will need maintenance, but she's sound and we are tentatively entering again. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I spoke with the vets at Purdue Univeristy about this procedure last year. The cost was around 600-700 for the procedure. They first inject a dye into the lower hock to confirm there is no communication among the upper and lower hock joints. They then inject the ethanol and that promotes fusion. They do this under local anesthetic.
They told me this was a newer protocol than the laser procedure, as the horse does not need to go under general anesthetic. It is less risky. I think the laser is 1200-1500, but they typically don't do this procedure anymore.
The recovery time is 8 weeks of stall rest, than slow return to exercise (if I remember correctly). They have an 80% success rate. They told me the 20% "failures" were typically the horses who were too fused to get a needle in the joint. (ie horses they could not inject either). I would ask what the success rate is at the hospital you are considering.
My local vet knows a horse that had this procedure done and is doing well. He still needs his other joints injected (stifles, upper hock, and I think SI?), but the lower hock is doing well. He was getting everything injected before the procedure as well. This is a western pleasure horse.
My friend has a horse who underwent the drill bit procedure at Purdue (he was jumper that was jumped too frequently by the gal leasing him. She didn't find out until it was too late). His lower hock joint was collapsed, and they could not inject him at all because they were unable to get a needle into the joint capsule. They also tried to get a needle in the joint for an hour and a half via U/S to do the ethanol procedure, but couldn't get it done. She opted for the surgery. She knew the chances for him coming back as a jumper were not good going in. He is better than before, but still not sound. She trail rides him on his good days.
This is the info I was given when I called the hospital and experiences had by friends. I know some vets prefer the laser procedure, but Purdue told me it was outdated in terms of their protocols.
I am considering the procedure for my horse, as he needs his lower hocks injected but nothing else. However, his injections seem to be lasting longer (4 months last time) on the program I'm doing with him, so I may not take the risk and keep doing IA injections until I retire him. My horse is 16 as well. Hope this info helps! |
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 Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | wishes4kissez - 2013-07-19 5:34 PM He said you never want them to fuse but if they are already in such bad condition its going to happen
What?? This is barrel racing ... hocks fuse! Prime age is 4-7 |
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 The Rose of Rodeo...
Posts: 2560
Location: Where we still run to look when the siren goes by. | Runnin < C > - 2013-07-20 12:07 PM wishes4kissez - 2013-07-19 5:34 PM He said you never want them to fuse but if they are already in such bad condition its going to happen What?? This is barrel racing ... hocks fuse! Prime age is 4-7 
Edited by Rodeo Rose 2013-07-20 1:30 PM
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| Did it twice with no results what-so-ever...wasted money. AFTER doing it, it wasn't 3 months later that my vet said that the new research was showing that it isn't as effective as they thought it was going to be...she no longer provides the service.
Laser is the way to go from what my vet and other vets are saying;however, it is pricey, I hear.
Edited by runs4fun 2013-07-20 5:54 PM
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | We looked at doing it last year on a 10 year old. Injections weren't working to keep him competitive. We bounced it off 3 vets and wound up doing the surgery instead. Injected with Tildren 2 weeks before surgery and the horse recovered very well. If we hadn't done the surgery, I probably would've gone with the laser option. When I was researching our options I heard quite a few stories of the alcohol not working. Why isn't surgery an option? |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | Rodeo Rose - 2013-07-20 1:28 PM
Runnin < C > - 2013-07-20 12:07 PM wishes4kissez - 2013-07-19 5:34 PM He said you never want them to fuse but if they are already in such bad condition its going to happen What?? This is barrel racing ... hocks fuse! Prime age is 4-7
Where do you live? If you're talking horses that just run a few months in the summer and have mostly down time during the winter, they will fuse later. The 4-7 age saying is for the typical horse started as a 2 yr old and used pretty much all year round. Also, the reason he sees it more in older horses is because they may have started fusing earlier, but nothing was done about it until it got unbearable, so it's at a later age. How old the horse was started on barrels also makes a difference. If he was started at 6, he may start fusing at 10. If he was started at 2, he'll probably start fusing at 4-7, depending on the horse, the kind of ground and how athletic and fast it is. The faster they are, the more wear and tear on the body. |
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Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | UTAHCANCHASER - 2013-07-19 5:17 PM
Has anyone ever had this procedure done? What made you go this route?
Any Pros or Cons to it?
I have a 16 year old mare that has not fused yet and it is causing her all sorts of pain. We injected her on Monday and I will start riding her again next week. In a couple of months we will have x-rays done again to see if might have started fusing on her own ( I am doubtful). If she hasn't the vet suggested 2 things #1 injecting the hock with alcohol or #2 surgery.
I know with the alcohol injections that will have to do a contrast dye first to make sure nothing is going into the top joint. At this point surgery is out of the questions.
Any experince with injecting to fuse would be greatly appreciated.
You need to pm Bold Hollis or contact Summer Terry on facebook and listen to her story about this procedure. It ended her horse's career and very nearly lost him his life. After hearing about it from her, I would never do it to any of mine. I talked to my vet about it and he said hers was not an isolated case. He didn't recommend it. |
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Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | dianeguinn - 2013-07-20 7:30 PM Rodeo Rose - 2013-07-20 1:28 PM Runnin < C > - 2013-07-20 12:07 PM wishes4kissez - 2013-07-19 5:34 PM He said you never want them to fuse but if they are already in such bad condition its going to happen What?? This is barrel racing ... hocks fuse! Prime age is 4-7 Where do you live? If you're talking horses that just run a few months in the summer and have mostly down time during the winter, they will fuse later. The 4-7 age saying is for the typical horse started as a 2 yr old and used pretty much all year round. Also, the reason he sees it more in older horses is because they may have started fusing earlier, but nothing was done about it until it got unbearable, so it's at a later age. How old the horse was started on barrels also makes a difference. If he was started at 6, he may start fusing at 10. If he was started at 2, he'll probably start fusing at 4-7, depending on the horse, the kind of ground and how athletic and fast it is. The faster they are, the more wear and tear on the body.
What she said. I actually had a good black horse who was still in the fusing process at 19 years old... He was ran on the track as a 2 year old and on the barrels since three. That was the most sound sucker Ive ever seen - very little maintenance for as hard as he was used and as little as he was taken care of til I got him at 14. They are all different, he was from Iowa so he was not ran all year (our winters were terrible) but was ran for years and years and still wasnt completely fused at 19. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Mine is 16 and nowhere near fusing. He's never been hauled hard (heck or even consistently) until last year when I legged him up and got back to showing.
I am doubting I will ever do the procedure with him after reading people's bad experiences!
I was thinking back, and actually the info I posted is probably more like 2 or 3 years old. The hospital I spoke with may be recommending something else now. However, I know some have had success with it (at least getting it done there). At this point I'll probably just keep injecting him (since it is working well). If for some reason the injections lose efficacy, I may consider this or the laser procedure. |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | dianeguinn - 2013-07-20 7:31 PM UTAHCANCHASER - 2013-07-19 5:17 PM Has anyone ever had this procedure done? What made you go this route?
Any Pros or Cons to it?
I have a 16 year old mare that has not fused yet and it is causing her all sorts of pain. We injected her on Monday and I will start riding her again next week. In a couple of months we will have x-rays done again to see if might have started fusing on her own ( I am doubtful). If she hasn't the vet suggested 2 things #1 injecting the hock with alcohol or #2 surgery.
I know with the alcohol injections that will have to do a contrast dye first to make sure nothing is going into the top joint. At this point surgery is out of the questions.
Any experince with injecting to fuse would be greatly appreciated.
You need to pm Bold Hollis or contact Summer Terry on facebook and listen to her story about this procedure. It ended her horse's career and very nearly lost him his life. After hearing about it from her, I would never do it to any of mine. I talked to my vet about it and he said hers was not an isolated case. He didn't recommend it.
2 out of 3 equine sports medicine vets really didn't want us to do it. They talked us into doing the surgery and laser would've been the 2nd option. |
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 Premier Producer
Posts: 3770
Location: Checotah OK | I DID IT ONCE THEN AFTER THAT DID ANOTHER INJECTION - ONE HOCK TOOK A LIL LONGER THAN OTHER TO FUSE - MY HORSE HAD QUIT WORKING ...PERIOD. NOW BACK TO WINNING. I'M GLAD I DID IT . I KNOW SOMEONE ELSE WHO DID IT AND HAD SOME TISUUE INFECTION BECAUSE OF IT (2ND TIME THAT HORSE WAS DONE) BUT IT IS REOVERING. |
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Expert
Posts: 1261
| casualdust07 - 2013-07-19 3:52 PM
wishes4kissez - 2013-07-19 5:35 PM My vet talked about the laser thing but said it was extremely painful for the horse It was my understanding that alcohol and drilling are also pretty painful. I was told it was a lot quicker.
He said drilling was painful too but the alcohol actually deaden the nerves some what and relieves some of the pain. |
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Expert
Posts: 1261
| Runnin < C > - 2013-07-20 11:07 AM
wishes4kissez - 2013-07-19 5:34 PM He said you never want them to fuse but if they are already in such bad condition its going to happen
What?? This is barrel racing ... hocks fuse! Prime age is 4-7
This was a race track vet with over 20 years of experience as a lameness vet.... I think he knows what hes talking about. |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | wishes4kissez - 2013-07-22 11:56 AM Runnin < C > - 2013-07-20 11:07 AM wishes4kissez - 2013-07-19 5:34 PM He said you never want them to fuse but if they are already in such bad condition its going to happen What?? This is barrel racing ... hocks fuse! Prime age is 4-7 This was a race track vet with over 20 years of experience as a lameness vet.... I think he knows what hes talking about.
Why wouldn't he want them to fuse? After they fuse they are no longer in pain. And why would you be considering alcohol injections if you didn't want them to fuse? Maybe I'm missing something here?? |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I have a 10 yo gelding who,is going thru this and i need some guidance i can keep,riding him but he ismstill hurting on previcox i need to keep him comfotable till he fuses. Suggestions. |
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| Anyone use Equioxx to help with the pain of fusing hocks? I believe my 10 yo is going through this, Im trying to keep riding and running him but would like to know if this is somthing that could help him. Would I give it to him before a run? Thanks! |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| This is what I did when my rodeo horses hocks were fusing. We injected first and then started useing the Theraplate and Laser. The Laser only after 5 weeks as it can mess with the injections if done sooner. I gave Previcox everyday until I found a product called Precision Joint. After starting on the Precision Joint I was able to stop the Previcox. This horse won pro rodeos and has since went on to do well with new owners. The horse I have now is going through fusing. I have not injected but I am using the Theraplate and Laser and feeding Precision Joint and have added AE Performance Detox and Product X. I am not having any of the pain issues with fusing. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| This is what I did when my rodeo horses hocks were fusing. We injected first and then started useing the Theraplate and Laser. The Laser only after 5 weeks as it can mess with the injections if done sooner. I gave Previcox everyday until I found a product called Precision Joint. After starting on the Precision Joint I was able to stop the Previcox. This horse won pro rodeos and has since went on to do well with new owners. The horse I have now is going through fusing. I have not injected but I am using the Theraplate and Laser and feeding Precision Joint and have added AE Performance Detox and Product X. I am not having any of the pain issues with fusing. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| This is what I did when my rodeo horses hocks were fusing. We injected first and then started useing the Theraplate and Laser. The Laser only after 5 weeks as it can mess with the injections if done sooner. I gave Previcox everyday until I found a product called Precision Joint. After starting on the Precision Joint I was able to stop the Previcox. This horse won pro rodeos and has since went on to do well with new owners. The horse I have now is going through fusing. I have not injected but I am using the Theraplate and Laser and feeding Precision Joint and have added AE Performance Detox and Product X. I am not having any of the pain issues with fusing. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Bump for more info as my gelding is fusing
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Member
Posts: 38
| bump. my horse is at the point injections are no longer working, so were at the point that a decision will have to be made about what to do. I have researched and know the different procedures, but would like to hear any recent stories about these procedures, especically the laser treatment. xrays show his hock is literally "this close" to being completely fused and I can no longer ride him because he is hurting to bad. |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | I did the alcohol injections to fuse my gelding. It was basically a last resort. He was terribly sore, mentally frieed, and just not useable anymore. (There is a back story that contributed also but this was after the fact) he was worse for 3/4 weeks. Then 2-3 months he just walked in the pasture. 6months hew as starting to play in the pasture. I gave him 8months off and he finally felt sound! Of course we had a stifle injury after he started clocking back in the 1D and top 2D so we are back in recovery mode, but I feel like that in my scenario it was my best option. It was a painful ordeal for him but so was everything else! I would do it again if faced with my same scenario. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| After going through several vets and the last being a top proformance vet on east coast he diagnosed finally the fusing hock on my gelding. He has suggested tye surgery as last resort, but he suggested 2 shockwave treatments to finish the fusing process.
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Member
Posts: 29
| I used alcohol on a nice horse 1/2D before alcohol, 3D afterwards. They did not do the stain though. I think it got into the upper joint because he would turn and was not sore, he just never could open up and run afterwards. I'd run from the procedure now. But, Hopefully since they use the stain now, there is less risk of that happening. Good luck!
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Anyone do the shockwave. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Anyone do the shockwave. My vet did say the alcohol injection where last resort. I think he may had some adverse reqction. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Anyone do the shockwave. My vet did say the alcohol injection where last resort. I think he may had some adverse reqction. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I would not have the alcohol procedure done without the dye procedure done beforehand. It is EXTREMELY important that the joint capsules have no communication.
The University told me that they have a high success rate, but they do the dye/U/S procedure prior to the ethanol injection.
I know it is painful, but my friend's horse had the drilling surgery and that was 6 months of recovery and he still isn't right. He was pretty bad off before that (he did not fuse, the lower joint had "collapsed"). He's retired now. |
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Fusing Hocks with Alcohol Injections