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 Peecans
    
| Not having a good day today :-(Go out for morning chores start letting dogs lose and Tuff, my superstar working dog was very messed up, couldent walk straight would fall over peing every where, put what dogs were lose away and took him to the vet. He has something nurogical going on but UN able to find a cause. Urine was clean, blood was pefrect, x ray showed no trama. So I was sent home with steroids. He is not ever lose without me with him, he is tied right by my back door. Last Saturday a pokie pine came to him and got him, vet removed all quills and he got antibiotics for that is the only UN usual thing that's happened lately. I'm at a loss as what to think, was told he could have had some trama that caused spinal swelling, maybe a stroke (his head is crooked but eyes work right) or he has a (can't member the name) the blood dosent go to his liver so all the toxins never get filtered and cause problems like this? But I guess it's hard to test for. So we are on a 24 hour wait to see if steroids help at all, I'm so worried about my boy.Than I got home and get him settled and take Fannie for her walk (she broke her leg and was doing great) but won't put any weight on it tonight, she has an apoinemt first thing tomorrow to see what's wrong, but I'm really worried about her too. I'm so upset and frustrated, does anybody have any thoughts on Tuff and if you could say a prayer for them both it would mean so much. I'm gona have to sell a horse to pay my dogs vet bills here soon lmao .... but not really laughing :-(
Edited by della 2013-12-07 3:11 PM
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Sideways Riding Expert
Posts: 11371
Location: ND--it snows, it floods, it snows, it floods | awe.....I got nothing but sending prayers for your babies. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | Rough day indeed prayers for recovery - I had one simular - it was an infection 24 hours on an antibiotic an she was better. |
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Peecans
| speedjunkie - 2013-10-25 4:24 PM
Rough day indeed prayers for recovery - I had one simular - it was an infection 24 hours on an antibiotic an she was better.
thank you, they ruled out infection today, he does have some antibiotics to prevent infection from being on steroids but there was no infection present today :-( |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Oh no what a horrible time you are having, poor dogs. I had one a few years back that messed up his back had him to the vet many times over it, he got to where he could not get up any more had him on everything trying to help him, never did find out what happen to him, this went on for two weeks and he could not even get up to go potty so I had to make the call and put him to sleep was really hard to do.
Many prayers for your Dog family   and hugs for you girl. |
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 Quiet Riot
Posts: 2568
Location: North Dakota | |
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Peecans
| I wanted to thank everybody for all you kind words. Tuff is brighter this morning but more wobble, so Idk if that is progress or not. I'll just take him when I take Fannie to make sure we are going the right direction. |
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 Underestimated Underdog
Posts: 3971
Location: Minnesota | Goodness della, I'm so sorry all of this is happening. Hopefully the vet can come up with some answers for you and your dogs can start to get better. Hugs and prayers friend. Text or call anytime. |
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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | I hope you can find some answers. One of the worst things, in my opinion, is not knowing what is wrong. Many prayers for you and your doggy. |
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 Color Coordinator
Posts: 19200
Location: Oklahoma | Prayers!
Any chance he could have gotten into some ivermectin?
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Peecans
| roanrobey - 2013-10-26 10:26 AM
Prayers!
Any chance he could have gotten into some ivermectin?
No not possible, The cattle stuff gets kept in a diffrent yardsite and the horse stuff is locked up. |
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Peecans
| Just got back from the vet.
Great news for Fannie she just over did it and just needs smaller confinement for a bit and will be back to weight bearing soon.
Tuff however is worse, all the vets are at a loss. We are keeping on the steroid plan for the weekend if he is worse Monday I have to decide if we are going to start looking for rare and hard to test for infections and conditions and hope there is a treatment if we even do find what's wrong. Or the other choice is to put him down. Those words are just devastating. I love that dog so much, I raised him and he makes me so proud, he is the best working dog I've ever had. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Lots of prayers for him. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 899
| Hugs and prayers for Tuff!! |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | Don't the steroids take a few days to work to fullest effect? Many prayers! Hopefully the steroids will start to work along with prayer. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| della - 2013-10-26 1:03 PM
Just got back from the vet.
Great news for Fannie she just over did it and just needs smaller confinement for a bit and will be back to weight bearing soon.
Tuff however is worse, all the vets are at a loss. We are keeping on the steroid plan for the weekend if he is worse Monday I have to decide if we are going to start looking for rare and hard to test for infections and conditions and hope there is a treatment if we even do find what's wrong. Or the other choice is to put him down. Those words are just devastating. I love that dog so much, I raised him and he makes me so proud, he is the best working dog I've ever had.
See if the vets have any of his blood before he started on the steroids, if so get an ana test done, this is an autoimmune test costs about 65 to do the test. I guess lupus runs rampant in dogs and it generally starts showing symptoms after a traumatic event, the pulling quills.
I have a dog diagnosed with lupus just started the treatment, my guy won't quit itching and has open sores all over.
Lupus can affect any part of the body, dogs and human lupus very similar.
Good luck prayers |
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Oh Della I am so sorry you are having such a rough time. Prayer for you and your dog family. |
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Regular
Posts: 60
| my weinie dog did this. He was so dizzy and could not walk or stand. I took him to the vet and he had something to do with inner ear. I am going to find the name just cannot remember it off hand. The symptoms are very severe and lasted about 2 weeks. I read on the internet that a lot of people put their dogs some thinking they had a stroke. mine had the head tilt too. His world was spinning around and you could see it in his eyes. I think this is what your dog has. please do not put him down. mine recovered and is perfect now. it did take a few weeks though. Ill find the name and send it too you. |
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Regular
Posts: 60
| Vestibular disease in Dogs. mine fully recovered
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Peecans
| FAB - 2013-10-26 6:14 PM
my weinie dog did this. He was so dizzy and could not walk or stand. I took him to the vet and he had something to do with inner ear. I am going to find the name just cannot remember it off hand. The symptoms are very severe and lasted about 2 weeks. I read on the internet that a lot of people put their dogs some thinking they had a stroke. mine had the head tilt too. His world was spinning around and you could see it in his eyes. I think this is what your dog has. please do not put him down. mine recovered and is perfect now. it did take a few weeks though. Ill find the name and send it too you.
thank you for the info.
His eyes are good and clear, but it is something to look into how did you find out? We did cheek for ear infections and his ears looked good.
My vet at this moment is very convinced the issue is in his spine going off his symptoms we just can not find the cause. And the loss of limb control is far more sever in his hind end.
I'm no where near ready to give up on him, so long as he is still fighting I will for him. |
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Peecans
| della - 2013-10-26 6:23 PM
FAB - 2013-10-26 6:14 PM
my weinie dog did this. He was so dizzy and could not walk or stand. I took him to the vet and he had something to do with inner ear. I am going to find the name just cannot remember it off hand. The symptoms are very severe and lasted about 2 weeks. I read on the internet that a lot of people put their dogs some thinking they had a stroke. mine had the head tilt too. His world was spinning around and you could see it in his eyes. I think this is what your dog has. please do not put him down. mine recovered and is perfect now. it did take a few weeks though. Ill find the name and send it too you.
thank you for the info.
His eyes are good and clear, but it is something to look into how did you find out? We did cheek for ear infections and his ears looked good.
My vet at this moment is very convinced the issue is in his spine going off his symptoms we just can not find the cause. And the loss of limb control is far more sever in his hind end.
I'm no where near ready to give up on him, so long as he is still fighting I will for him.
I googled it and it does not sound like what's tapping to him. He's nit vomiting, no jerking eyes, not spinning in circles, and he's not what I would say "dizzy" he just has no idea where his back end is and much control over it.
But I'll diffently will still ask Monday when we reavulate him |
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Regular
Posts: 60
| my dog was definitely dizzy and his eyes jerked. He was nauseous too. I hope no matter what ... if he is trying to live, you keep the faith. My dog was so sick, I saw why many put them down thinking he had a stroke, but animals can pull thru almost anything. Good luck to you lil doggie. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Prayers for your dog. Sure hope he pulls through. |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| My old Heeler had similar symptoms with sudden onset. The first vet to look at her, watched her walk in the clinic and said it was either a ruptured spleen or Auto Immune Hemolytic Anemia.
She did a belly tap, got a syringe full of blood and said it was a ruptured spleen. A totally unnecessary surgery proved that to be incorrect (the needle had gone straight into the spleen). We treated for AIHA while we waited for bloodwork. We treated her for 4 years and every vet that saw or heard about her was surprised to hear that she survived the initial onset of the disease.
My vet thinks that it could have been cause by something like a wasp sting. He also feels that over vaccination can lead to this disease and has been a lot more lenient and cautious about vaccinating my dogs.
I hope you find out the cause and that it is treatable. |
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Peecans
| Just thought I'd give an up date on both dogs if anybody was wondering.
Fannie - got screws and wires removed she's doing great, few more weeks and she can start going for walks rather than just out to bathroom. She goes through 3 chew toys a week, her favorite are the cooked bones with the center filled with beef deliciousness lol.
Tuff - my boy is as good as he will get. His head is kinda crooked to the side, and he is not near as gracefull. His hind end gets him sometimes, he either jumps to low and catches it or over does it and flips it over his head. I hope in time he will get it figured out.
His mind is diffrent ie. He now plays with the light from a flash light.
He also does not work well he is scared of the cattle, this dog has been ran over kicked and mulled and never quit, he got up with fire in his eyes and got the job done. I have decided he won't see cattle at all until next summer I'll gobuy some bottle calves if I have none and restart him, if he still has desire great if not he will be retired.
I also having trouble getting him to gain the weight back he lost while sick, he's wasting very very well just not gaining. Working with my vet on this still.
But I'm thankful he is still here with me. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | when they did the withdrawal response and patellar reflex tests on his hind limbs what did they grade him? did you say his hind end was MORE dramatic, like more movement, more drastic? how are his front legs?
When they have INCREASED responses/reflexes it's an upper motor neuron problem. when they have DECREASED responses its a lower motor neuron problem. lower motor neurons are located between C6-T2 for the thoracic limb and L4-S3 for the pelvic limb.
Did you say he had loss of control of urinating?
The sympathetic innveration to the bladder that prevents urinating is controlled by the hypogastric nerve located in the lumbar region. the parasympathetic innervation that relaxes the sphincters and contracts the muscles so you can urinate when you want to is controlled by the pelvic nerve in the sacral region.
Did the vets say if he had feeling in the skin around his anus and did he have control of his bowel movements?
Also one more edit- it is very possible he did something in the T3-L3 region which would be consistent with increased loss of control in the hind limb and may explain the urinating he did. I am not sure about the head part. I don't start neuro until next semester :/
Edited by casualdust07 2013-12-07 3:41 PM
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 California Cowgirl
Posts: 14973
Location: California | Just now seeing this. Sounds eerily similair to what I went through with London earlier this year....
How old is Tuff? She lost entire use of a front leg and had to have it amputated with the shoulder blade which may have been unrelated to the neuro issues but after surgery she started exhibiting neurological issues consistent with a spine issue or head trauma. She also had the loss of urination control at times and would wizz all over my carpet without knowing (and she is housebroken) . Took her to multiple vets , ran bloodwork (came back perfect) , took her to a neurologist (found nothing out of the ordinary) . I was at a loss also. The specialist ruled out tick diseases , blood diseases , etc etc etc and finally she told me "When we hear hoofbeats we automatically think of horses...but the thought that it might be a zebra doesn't usually come to mind." Basically she meant that it could be one of those things that you never really figure out , for better or worse. London lost 90% of limb use in her remaining legs and that is where I was at a loss. She was also put on steroids which caused her to urinate everywhere and maintain a very hot hot body temp. I switched her off of steroids with help from holistic practice people and I put her on "Burdock Root" instead. It is claimed to provide the same anti-inflammatory properties that the prednisone did but without the side effects. I also took the approach that it may have been an auto-immune disorder so I got her on a RAW diet , probiotics and ECHINACEA. I still keep her on daily echinacea for immune support. I upped the fish oil to maintain some joint health and I started her on treatments with acuscope/myoscope therapy with Molly Wells.This all started back in May , and to be honest it took until about September to get back to a normal level of mobility and motor skill function as well as healthy muscle mass etc (she lost a lot of weight fast , all her muscles seemed to atrophy rapidly at the time).
A lot of people told me I was crazy for putting that much time and effort into a dog that was "dieing". Well she is here , several months later and she's going on morning jogs again so you know in your heart what the right thing to do is .
I also used a Back On Track blanket with her in the evenings . To this day I am not sure what it is or was or whether it will surface yet again , but it sounds very much like your dog .
Wishing you the very best , give your pooch a big hug from us
Edited by F Bar 2013-12-07 3:43 PM
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 Horsey Gene Carrier
Posts: 1888
Location: LaBelle, Florida | From the description of the head tilt and losing balance....did he get ahold of a 'skink' lizard and eat it?
The black shiny ones that get pretty good size.
Cats usually get them and if they eat the whole thing, can have permant head tilt and drukiness symptoms.
Another thought too is DM (degenertive myopathy)
Edited by kasaj2000 2013-12-07 3:47 PM
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California Cowgirl
Posts: 14973
Location: California | kasaj2000 - 2013-12-07 1:45 PM From the description of the head tilt and losing balance....did he get ahold of a 'skink' lizard and eat it?
The black shiny ones that get pretty good size.
Cats usually get them and if they eat the whole thing, can have permant head tilt and drukiness symptoms.
Another thought too is DM (degenertive myopathy)
DM (Degenerative Myelopathy) came to mind also .
This reminded me , my girl was knuckled over as well. Not sure if your guy is doing the knuckles or dragging.
Does DM reverse itself , or is it downhill after onset though? I don't have much experience with it other than with a senior dog I rescued earlier this year who we think had it but she only lived for about 24 hours here before I decided she was suffering far too much at that stage.
Edited by F Bar 2013-12-07 4:03 PM
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Peecans
| casualdust07 - 2013-12-07 2:30 PM
when they did the withdrawal response and patellar reflex tests on his hind limbs what did they grade him? did you say his hind end was MORE dramatic, like more movement, more drastic? how are his front legs?
When they have INCREASED responses/reflexes it's an upper motor neuron problem. when they have DECREASED responses its a lower motor neuron problem. lower motor neurons are located between C6-T2 for the thoracic limb and L4-S3 for the pelvic limb.
Did you say he had loss of control of urinating?
The sympathetic innveration to the bladder that prevents urinating is controlled by the hypogastric nerve located in the lumbar region. the parasympathetic innervation that relaxes the sphincters and contracts the muscles so you can urinate when you want to is controlled by the pelvic nerve in the sacral region.
Did the vets say if he had feeling in the skin around his anus and did he have control of his bowel movements?
Also one more edit- it is very possible he did something in the T3-L3 region which would be consistent with increased loss of control in the hind limb and may explain the urinating he did. I am not sure about the head part. I don't start neuro until next semester :/
I will try to answer this all.
He is improved a lot. When he first went in and checked his reflexes (the one where they tired the back toe over and they put it back) it was zero he just left it till it was fixed for him at the last check he was at 3 seconds on the one leg and one on the other.
He was just weaned off steroids, I feel he's better with them but my vet wants to see hw he does for a couple weeks.
He has good control over bowels yes had trouble with urine but that has improved.
All xrays (so many xrays lol) showed no trama.
Short if an Mri we are out of tests to do.
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 A Big Ditto!
Posts: 3600
Location: Jasper, Tx | So sorry, prayers for your dog. |
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Peecans
| F Bar - 2013-12-07 2:37 PM
Just now seeing this. Sounds eerily similair to what I went through with London earlier this year....
How old is Tuff? She lost entire use of a front leg and had to have it amputated with the shoulder blade which may have been unrelated to the neuro issues but after surgery she started exhibiting neurological issues consistent with a spine issue or head trauma. She also had the loss of urination control at times and would wizz all over my carpet without knowing (and she is housebroken) . Took her to multiple vets , ran bloodwork (came back perfect) , took her to a neurologist (found nothing out of the ordinary) . I was at a loss also. The specialist ruled out tick diseases , blood diseases , etc etc etc and finally she told me "When we hear hoofbeats we automatically think of horses...but the thought that it might be a zebra doesn't usually come to mind." Basically she meant that it could be one of those things that you never really figure out , for better or worse. London lost 90% of limb use in her remaining legs and that is where I was at a loss. She was also put on steroids which caused her to urinate everywhere and maintain a very hot hot body temp. I switched her off of steroids with help from holistic practice people and I put her on "Burdock Root" instead. It is claimed to provide the same anti-inflammatory properties that the prednisone did but without the side effects. I also took the approach that it may have been an auto-immune disorder so I got her on a RAW diet , probiotics and ECHINACEA. I still keep her on daily echinacea for immune support. I upped the fish oil to maintain some joint health and I started her on treatments with acuscope/myoscope therapy with Molly Wells.This all started back in May , and to be honest it took until about September to get back to a normal level of mobility and motor skill function as well as healthy muscle mass etc (she lost a lot of weight fast , all her muscles seemed to atrophy rapidly at the time).
A lot of people told me I was crazy for putting that much time and effort into a dog that was "dieing". Well she is here , several months later and she's going on morning jogs again so you know in your heart what the right thing to do is .
I also used a Back On Track blanket with her in the evenings . To this day I am not sure what it is or was or whether it will surface yet again , but it sounds very much like your dog .
Wishing you the very best , give your pooch a big hug from us
I'm going to pm you when I get in and can use the computer. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | della - 2013-12-07 4:02 PM
casualdust07 - 2013-12-07 2:30 PM
when they did the withdrawal response and patellar reflex tests on his hind limbs what did they grade him? did you say his hind end was MORE dramatic, like more movement, more drastic? how are his front legs?
When they have INCREASED responses/reflexes it's an upper motor neuron problem. when they have DECREASED responses its a lower motor neuron problem. lower motor neurons are located between C6-T2 for the thoracic limb and L4-S3 for the pelvic limb.
Did you say he had loss of control of urinating?
The sympathetic innveration to the bladder that prevents urinating is controlled by the hypogastric nerve located in the lumbar region. the parasympathetic innervation that relaxes the sphincters and contracts the muscles so you can urinate when you want to is controlled by the pelvic nerve in the sacral region.
Did the vets say if he had feeling in the skin around his anus and did he have control of his bowel movements?
Also one more edit- it is very possible he did something in the T3-L3 region which would be consistent with increased loss of control in the hind limb and may explain the urinating he did. I am not sure about the head part. I don't start neuro until next semester :/
I will try to answer this all.
He is improved a lot. When he first went in and checked his reflexes (the one where they tired the back toe over and they put it back ) it was zero he just left it till it was fixed for him at the last check he was at 3 seconds on the one leg and one on the other.
He was just weaned off steroids, I feel he's better with them but my vet wants to see hw he does for a couple weeks.
He has good control over bowels yes had trouble with urine but that has improved.
All xrays (so many xrays lol ) showed no trama.
Short if an Mri we are out of tests to do.
keep us all updated. I just finished my first semester of vet school and we talked over lots of situations similar to this trying to get down the basics of neurology. Of course real life is never as easy as the examples they make up for us. |
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 Max is Back
Posts: 6795
Location: Flat Rock,IL | Prayers sent. I hope the dog gets better. |
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dog advice (medical) and prayers please - new up date for thoes intrested