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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
   
| A friend came over this evening right as I was getting horses in to feed. She was not invited, just showed up. Which is fine but her son is very out of control. Normally I try to keep him away from my dogs and horses.
They also brought their little dog. We had already had to get onto him about running up behind horses and letting the dog on leash run up under them.
I get to my last paddock it's getting dark and there is some brush blocking our vision we are still afew steps away from the gate and realize he and dog are chasing my mare. Before we can do anything the dog gets under her back legs and she kicks up and hits the kid right in the face.
She has never kicked never. I don't think she even knew a person was behind her. She could see me so knew I was not behind her. All she knew is something had her around her leg.
I'm just sick about it. She took him to a hospital and I'm trying to find out which one. We don't have a local hospital or any emergency clinic.
Am I legally responsible?
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Posts: 1304
| That's really difficult.. It's your horse but it's not your responsibility to watch and direct the child, which is not your's, around a 1200lb animal. Prayers to you all  |
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  Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | I will not even try to answer if you are legally responsible, but you may want to contact your homeowner's policy to see if it covers it (usually does cover injuries by animals on the property). Good on you for calling around to check p on the little one. Take some deep breaths and I'm hoping for the best  |
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 Bye-Bye Jiggle
Posts: 1691
Location: Where ever there's sunshine! | First off...I'm terribly sorry this happened to you. I cant offer any legal help, but they came on to your property and went in to that mares pasture ( i asssume). You did everything in your power to keep them seperate. As a parent it is her responsibility to keep her child under control. WHich apparently is not her strong point. If the child is in a dangerous area and she allows him out of her sight then that is on her. Again I'm so very sorry and I hope the little boy is ok. I also hope this is a huge lesson for them. |
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Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | Ohhhh Noooooo! I have no legal advice but am sending lots of thoughts and prayers y'alls way for sure!
And a couple hugs |
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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
| I am heartbroken over this. In all the years I've owned horses I've never had a horse kick someone, I've only been kicked a couple of times over the years. And it was not this horse that kicked me.
I know the kid is very out of control and because of that it's very seldom I invite them over. I did not invite them this time.
Chances are if he had not been dragging that dog around she would not have kicked. It got between her back legs.
Edited by cinch 2013-11-19 8:36 PM
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Posts: 1898
| I am so sorry this happend! I can't imagine how you feel!
In California you are 100% responsible. I knew a "trainer" who was kicked in the face after unloading a horse in a pasture. He took off the halter and then smacked the horse on the butt. The horse kicked him right sqare in the face and he had to have a full reconstruction. He sued the owners of the horse and won. He claimed to the court the horse was "mean" and "dangerous". |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | Because each state has different laws and cases interpreting those laws, I'm not going to give a comment on this one concerning the legal aspects of the question. I do agree on consulting your homeowner's policy as that might point you in some direction. There's just too many facts and different laws that are state-specific for me to offer anything advice-wise on this right now. |
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Posts: 151
| It's so scary to have to think like that! When we were kids it would have been a lesson learned for acting wild. NEVER would you have to worry about liability!
My 5 month old puppy tore across the yard and barely knocked over a toddler yesterday (wagging and smiling), and then playfully nipped at his hand. He was screaming bloody murder. I was worried about liability too...when if it was my kid I would have told him to shake it off.
Did the mom give you any indication of blaming you?
Edited by Skeetersmom 2013-11-19 8:42 PM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
Location: W. Pa. | That's where the word "Trainer" fits the situation loosely. Any one can call them selves a trainer. Seems to me that was his own fault
. As far as the child I would find out what is going on at hospital before you call the insurance company. Some Companies do not even want to insure your home or farm if you own horses or certain types of dogs. |
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Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | Prayers to the little boy that he is ok, and prayers to you that they do not even pursue legal action! |
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Veteran
Posts: 183
| Don't know what to say but an unsupervised child around livestock, when the livestock is properly penned up...and allowing the child and dog to run just doesn't seem like your fault or responsibility but the mom's. Call an attorney asap for advice. Sometimes a consultation is free. If you were babysitting or the animal wasn't tied or penned is another matter. Good luck and I'm so very sorry. |
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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
| Two Boots - 2013-11-19 8:42 PM That's where the word "Trainer" fits the situation loosely. Any one can call them selves a trainer. Seems to me that was his own fault . As far as the child I would find out what is going on at hospital before you call the insurance company. Some Companies do not even want to insure your home or farm if you own horses or certain types of dogs.
I'm not a trainer. This is my horse on my property. |
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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
| I'm on my way to the hospital. Take me about 2 hours. |
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Duct Tape Bikini Girl
Posts: 2554
| Whether your fence is "kid proof" might make a difference. I have 5 ft horse wire that is described as a wire a human can't climb. Therefore, my insurance covers it if a human gets in and gets hurt.
My thoughts are with you. I hope you get some good answers and news soon. |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | This is one of my worst fears. I'm so sorry this happened to you and many prayers the boy will be ok. A few years ago I got a Equine Law sign that I hang in a very visible spot on the front of my horse barn. I don't know if it helps but it sure as heck can't hurt. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | One of my worst fears too, dont know what to tell you, just sending this little boy prayers that hes going to be ok. |
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 Too Skinny
Posts: 8009
Location: LA Lower Alabama | |
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 Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | Gosh what a horrible thing to happen to you and the little boy. I don't have any legal advice but I hope it doesn't turn into a legal thing for them. Unfortunately in today's society it seems we can't simply just have friends or neighbors over especially if they have kids. My neighbors came over a few times with their older daughter to ride and things were going just fine until they brought their younger daughter who sounds much like the little boy that got kicked at your place. Unfortunately because they could not keep their "wild child" under control I could not, in good faith, keep letting the older daughter come over to ride. I can't believe times have come to this because in my day and age no matter how bad the kick was, the incident you described would have been the parent and kid's fault.
Did your mare kick him unconscious or was he still conscious? What happened at your house could happen to any of us. So sorry. |
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 Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY | CYA Ranch - 2013-11-19 7:08 PM This is one of my worst fears. I'm so sorry this happened to you and many prayers the boy will be ok. A few years ago I got a Equine Law sign that I hang in a very visible spot on the front of my horse barn. I don't know if it helps but it sure as heck can't hurt.
I don't know about the signs either, but have 4 of them hanging up around here.
take a deep breath and hopefully the mother will realize it's her responsibility to keep track of her kid and not yours. Hope he will be ok
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 Max is Back
Posts: 6795
Location: Flat Rock,IL | So sorry...prayers for the little boy and you. |
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Posts: 1552
Location: Texas | Call your insurance Company that carries your home owners policy. They should take care of the medical.
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Regular
Posts: 56
| This is exactly why when my kids wanted to bring non horse people to the house to ride and play cowboy I said no. Didn't want to take any chances. Still don't. Hope everything work out and everyone is ok |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | blackhorse1 - 2013-11-19 9:47 PM This is exactly why when my kids wanted to bring non horse people to the house to ride and play cowboy I said no. Didn't want to take any chances. Still don't. Hope everything work out and everyone is ok
This is probably exactly why my mom was anal about me and my friends around horses... even though out of all of the horses me and my friends had, mine was the safest.
I am 26 now and when I walk behind one of MY horses that she doesn't know well she tells me to be careful lol.
I feel bad for the little boy, and all involved. Even though he was in the wrong, and may not have known better... getting kicked in the face is a hard lesson learned. Prayers everything works out and he is ok. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I was staying up a little late tonight hoping for an update on this little boy, sending more prayers |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | Red Raider - 2013-11-19 8:35 PM Because each state has different laws and cases interpreting those laws, I'm not going to give a comment on this one concerning the legal aspects of the question. I do agree on consulting your homeowner's policy as that might point you in some direction. There's just too many facts and different laws that are state-specific for me to offer anything advice-wise on this right now.
I think cinch lives in Texas, Red Raider.
Hoping she will check in and update us on how the little guy is doing.
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Well sending more prayers to the little boy I got to go to bed, I'm seeing things that arent suppose to be there, lol  Hoping to get up date tomorrow, goodnight  |
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| CYA Ranch - 2013-11-19 9:08 PM
This is one of my worst fears. I'm so sorry this happened to you and many prayers the boy will be ok. A few years ago I got a Equine Law sign that I hang in a very visible spot on the front of my horse barn. I don't know if it helps but it sure as heck can't hurt.
THESE SIGNS CAN BE THE BEST MONEY YOU EVER SPEND!! |
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 Nascar Princess
Posts: 6005
Location: Texas!!! | . I'm so sorry that happened. I'm also anal about people around the horses. One of the reasons we no longer board. I will put this little one in my prayers. That being said things like this make me want to punch the kids mother. I can't tell you how many times people show up with kids, dog on leash for a trip to the country and let them run wild. Drives me crazy. It's like they don't realize the danger. I understand how quick kids are, how they are like little ninjas and sometimes no matter how diligent you are things happen. Sorry to rant this is one of my greatest pet peeves. I have seen a child kicked in the head once, he was alright but it was nothing I ever want to see again. |
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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
| I made it to the hospital. They are having to put him to sleep to put in sutures because he won't stay still enough. He has a cracked bone in his jaw but the bones are lined up and shouldn't be a problem. Mom seems to know it was his fault and brought up something I didn't think of. He was wearing some kind of novelty hat that looked like a lion and had fuzzy fringe that flopped around as he ran. Looks like we'll be here all night. |
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Veteran
Posts: 183
| cinch - 2013-11-20 12:08 AM
I made it to the hospital. They are having to put him to sleep to put in sutures because he won't stay still enough. He has a cracked bone in his jaw but the bones are lined up and shouldn't be a problem. Mom seems to know it was his fault and brought up something I didn't think of. He was wearing some kind of novelty hat that looked like a lion and had fuzzy fringe that flopped around as he ran. Looks like we'll be here all night.
Oh, no...gosh I hate to hear that. I hope everything heals quickly for the little boy. Would be smart to make your calls is the morning anyway because perspectives change when bills start coming in the mail. Tragic situation & hopefully no complications (of ANY kind) present themselves. Praying for a good report. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Praying for this young boy and that common sense prevails in the handling of this matter. |
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Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | Fun2Run - 2013-11-19 11:31 PM Red Raider - 2013-11-19 8:35 PM Because each state has different laws and cases interpreting those laws, I'm not going to give a comment on this one concerning the legal aspects of the question. I do agree on consulting your homeowner's policy as that might point you in some direction. There's just too many facts and different laws that are state-specific for me to offer anything advice-wise on this right now. I think cinch lives in Texas, Red Raider.
Hoping she will check in and update us on how the little guy is doing.
I thought she did too -- maybe she will read this and let me know if she does. This area of law is very much dependent on what each state specifically says is their law versus another state's law so that's why I can't just say yes or no to the question. If she does live in Texas, I would be happy to basically do the finepoint research on this topic for her for free and then she wouldn't have to call another attorney unless she just wanted to. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Prayers for all. I live in Texas and it is my understanding that the insurance company can sue whether the parents want to or not. When ever my kids went to the ER we always received a form to fill out asking for details of the accident. RR will know for sure. My daughter was in an auto accident and the other party sued. It was all handled by St. Farm, we never knew till it was settled. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Every time I've had an accident, my health insurance asked for details like where it happened, who owned the horse, etc. They're going to look for ways to make someone else pay whether the injured person wants them to or not. |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| Prayers for all involved. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Many prayers for this little boy. Please keep us up dated.
Cinch, be sure and get with Red Raider if you live in Texas. |
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 The Purple Princess
Posts: 2226
Location: Charlestown, IN | I don't know the laws for each state, but I can give you a similar experience. When I was little, we had a stud. This stud was very well mannered. Some "friends" showed up as yours did, unannounced while we were doing barn chores. They were aware the horse was a stallion. He had a special stall door even with bars all the way to the top. Their little brat kept going over teasing him with bits of hay and stuff. She would hold it out and then not give it to him. She went over several times until he had had enough. He reached thru the bars and bit her on the face. This resulted in a lawsuit. We won. We were not liable because the child was teasing the horse. He didn't just act out because he was a mean or dangerous horse. Anyway, I would think that since the boy and the dog were running behind her that you aren't liable either. Maybe the dog is what scared her. Maybe just the fact that he was chasing her scared her. Walking behind one and running behind one are two totally different cases, at least around my place they are.. My horses would probably kick up or out at me if I were running behind them. Prayers everything turns out ok for both of you. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| I hope the kid is OK, but I also hope this taught him a lesson. Sorry, maybe that's terribly mean of me this morning, but I'm not in the mood to feel sorry for the little brat when he was probably told to stay away from the horses. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Nateracer - 2013-11-20 8:29 AM I hope the kid is OK, but I also hope this taught him a lesson. Sorry, maybe that's terribly mean of me this morning, but I'm not in the mood to feel sorry for the little brat when he was probably told to stay away from the horses.
I'm on this bus with you.
My Dad has a girlfriend, and her daughter's kids always want to come over to see my horses. They are brats and they don't listen. They are 2 and 8. I told my Dad NO, they cannot come over. Don't bring those kids near my horses. If something ever happened, I know they would point fingers at me.
I hope everything is OK for you, OP. Keep us updated. |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| Murphy - 2013-11-20 7:35 AM Nateracer - 2013-11-20 8:29 AM I hope the kid is OK, but I also hope this taught him a lesson. Sorry, maybe that's terribly mean of me this morning, but I'm not in the mood to feel sorry for the little brat when he was probably told to stay away from the horses. I'm on this bus with you.
My Dad has a girlfriend, and her daughter's kids always want to come over to see my horses. They are brats and they don't listen. They are 2 and 8. I told my Dad NO, they cannot come over. Don't bring those kids near my horses. If something ever happened, I know they would point fingers at me.
I hope everything is OK for you, OP. Keep us updated.
Yes, I agree that I hope everything turns out in favor of the OP. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | Your homeowner's policy should cover any medical expenses. I would read through your policy very carefully, then contact your agent and advise them of what has happened and see if they can give you any information or clarify anything you may not be clear on, limits on payment and such. Their insurance can and may sue your insurance to cover the medical bills (this happened to us within our own family). As far as a full on civil suit, as people already pointed out, it depends on state law and more specifically, precedent set in other similar cases (Texas should have an abundance of horse liability law). Horses can be viewed as a strict liability, which means that no matter what, you are liable for having an animal with the propensity to be dangerous, whether they have shown prior aggressive behavior or not. Every case is different and has different facts, which makes the outcome difficult to predict, but it's more likely that the two insurance companies will haggle out the liability and you won't be personally responsible. |
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 Roan Wonder
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-11-19 11:45 PM CYA Ranch - 2013-11-19 9:08 PM This is one of my worst fears. I'm so sorry this happened to you and many prayers the boy will be ok. A few years ago I got a Equine Law sign that I hang in a very visible spot on the front of my horse barn. I don't know if it helps but it sure as heck can't hurt. THESE SIGNS CAN BE THE BEST MONEY YOU EVER SPEND!!
My cousin is an attorney here in South Dakota. We get lots of cheap (free) legal advice. LOL He sent me waivers in case someone rode my horses at my place and also advised me to get the sign. I did it ASAP. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1432
Location: Never in one place long | I don't think you were wrong in the least in this case. How sad that you have to be pulled in now because of something beyond your control..... I hope it works out. It's one of those things where in hind sight you may have told them to wait in the car but who the heck could have predicted that!?? I hate when those types of things happen..... actually had something simular happen this week...Even though it was not directly my fault I keep thinking what I could have done differently!! :( |
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Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | CYA Ranch - 2013-11-20 8:05 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-11-19 11:45 PM CYA Ranch - 2013-11-19 9:08 PM This is one of my worst fears. I'm so sorry this happened to you and many prayers the boy will be ok. A few years ago I got a Equine Law sign that I hang in a very visible spot on the front of my horse barn. I don't know if it helps but it sure as heck can't hurt. THESE SIGNS CAN BE THE BEST MONEY YOU EVER SPEND!!
I agree a sign is not a bad move, although each state is different regarding equine liability and what the signs actually cover (many of the equine liability laws and resulting signs were more specifically designed to protect public facilities from suit). Waivers are also necessary if you are giving lessons, boarding, etc. However, it's unrealistic to have every person sign a waiver for themselves and their children when they set foot on your place, especially when people just drop by as in this case. Waivers and signs also do nothing to prevent lawsuits. One of the major expenses of lawsuits comes from attorney's fees, and although the person bringing the suit may be essentially estopped in court with a carefully worded waiver, that doesn't cover your costs of getting there. For future issues, I would check into a horse specific liability coverage along with your homeowner's insurance, as it appears that some homeowner's policies don't cover horse related injuries. (This is also a good idea if you haul other people's horses back and forth to barrel races, or you haul with other people). |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | Oh my goodness Cinch, I'm definitely praying for both you and that little boy.
Here in kansas, you would not be held liable, but I'm not sure how other states are. I think maybe seeking legal advise through an attorney would be the best way to go about this. While you want the best for that child, you don't want to be stuck with charges against you as well. Praying for you |
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 Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | Cinch-I don't know what kind of insurance you have but it would be good to know. I have farm bureau here in Texas. When we switched to them this last year we specifically went over the horses and how to deal with accidents involving the horses on the property. From what I was told, our policy has a yearly "hush money" account in it. It is only like $5k but she told me that if something were to ever happen on the property, to go to the ER with the person and immediately try to negotiate with the hospital. If you can get it to $5k or under, call Farm Bureau immediately and they will come over with a check. Of course the other party has to be agreeable but it is nice to know I have it.
otherwise, we have liability insurance set up that was done because I have horses.
I hope everything turns out ok and it wasn't too late of a night and the boy will be ok. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 718
Location: BOSSIER CITY, LA | Cinch you need to sit down and write a statement of the facts as you remember them today, that way if anything comes up you have that to fall back on. Also, if any other witness I would get a statement from them. It never hurts to be prepared.
I had a horse tied to a fence at a barrel race in Louisiana and someone walked up behind him and hit him on the rear to move him over and he kicked them, it did alot of damage to the lady but I did not get sued because of the sign at the arena.
I would also call your agent and give them a heads up. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 425
Location: GA | I'm in Georgia, so I have no idea what the conditions of your homeowners policy is there. It may cover it but it may not. Here in GA at Allstate, you're not allowed to have more than 6 livestock on your property.
BUT, they do new business inspections and don't question it after they have approved or not approved your home. They do have periodic inspections every now and then at renewal.
Anyway, I think your homeowners will end up covering it. Before anything is done, I'd probably talk with your friend about the situation to see where she stands with everything. You say you think she knows it was the boy's fault for running after the horse so maybe she won't even try to come to you for it.
Hope it all works out.. |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | SoonerLawyer - 2013-11-20 8:30 AM CYA Ranch - 2013-11-20 8:05 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-11-19 11:45 PM CYA Ranch - 2013-11-19 9:08 PM This is one of my worst fears. I'm so sorry this happened to you and many prayers the boy will be ok. A few years ago I got a Equine Law sign that I hang in a very visible spot on the front of my horse barn. I don't know if it helps but it sure as heck can't hurt. THESE SIGNS CAN BE THE BEST MONEY YOU EVER SPEND!! I agree a sign is not a bad move, although each state is different regarding equine liability and what the signs actually cover (many of the equine liability laws and resulting signs were more specifically designed to protect public facilities from suit ). Waivers are also necessary if you are giving lessons, boarding, etc. However, it's unrealistic to have every person sign a waiver for themselves and their children when they set foot on your place, especially when people just drop by as in this case. Waivers and signs also do nothing to prevent lawsuits. One of the major expenses of lawsuits comes from attorney's fees, and although the person bringing the suit may be essentially estopped in court with a carefully worded waiver, that doesn't cover your costs of getting there. For future issues, I would check into a horse specific liability coverage along with your homeowner's insurance, as it appears that some homeowner's policies don't cover horse related injuries. (This is also a good idea if you haul other people's horses back and forth to barrel races, or you haul with other people ).
I totally agree Sooner. The waivers were handy when my daughter was giving riding lessons in the summer months a few years ago. I don't have people come out and ride my horses but I know if for some reason I felt the need I do have the waivers. As far as people coming out unexpected. This past early spring a guy that works for us showed up with his wife and 2 kids. The girl is sweet, the boy is an ass. They wanted to see a horse so I got Bugs in who's the sweetest guy I have. The ass kept walking around my horse and smacked him a couple times in the butt. Bugs flinched but didn't do anything to the kid. I told him and his parents that he was lucky it was Bugs he was doing that to because any one else I own probably would have kicked him hard enough he wouldn't have landed yet. The parents kind of giggled.. Some times you just can't fix stupid. I grabbed the kid by the arm - firmly got him away from my horse and turned him out to pasture. From now on that kid shows up and he stays away from my animals. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
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Location: Bastrop, Texas | cinch - 2013-11-20 12:08 AM I made it to the hospital. They are having to put him to sleep to put in sutures because he won't stay still enough. He has a cracked bone in his jaw but the bones are lined up and shouldn't be a problem. Mom seems to know it was his fault and brought up something I didn't think of. He was wearing some kind of novelty hat that looked like a lion and had fuzzy fringe that flopped around as he ran. Looks like we'll be here all night.
Why would the lion hat scare the horse?
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 Over Informed
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Location: West Tennessee | Murphy - 2013-11-20 7:35 AM Nateracer - 2013-11-20 8:29 AM I hope the kid is OK, but I also hope this taught him a lesson. Sorry, maybe that's terribly mean of me this morning, but I'm not in the mood to feel sorry for the little brat when he was probably told to stay away from the horses. I'm on this bus with you.
My Dad has a girlfriend, and her daughter's kids always want to come over to see my horses. They are brats and they don't listen. They are 2 and 8. I told my Dad NO, they cannot come over. Don't bring those kids near my horses. If something ever happened, I know they would point fingers at me.
I hope everything is OK for you, OP. Keep us updated.
Because even if they're brats, or doing something they shouldn't be doing -- BOTH of you ladies would feel horrible if a child got hurt even if it wasn't your/your horse's fault.
Cinch -- hugs to you, I can only imagine how you feel right now. Probably a whole bunch of conflicting emotions tearing you up. Angry, sad, guilty (even though you're not), fear etc etc
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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
| They sewed him up and sent us home. He does have a cracked jaw but bones are lined up and they see no problem with it healing without surgery. I guess it's not a complete break. He just can't chew hard or chewy stuff for about 4 weeks.
Once he was cleaned up he didn't look that bad and should heal fine.
A doctor and 2 of the nurses had already talked about the horse not even knowing it was a person. It was dusky dark, he was running with a little dog and with that goofy hat you couldn't see his face. So a horse darn sure couldn't tell.
I spent the whole night up there and she never gave any indication she was mad or upset at me.
I have a sign in the hallway of my barn.I doubt she's ever stood there and read it. They aren't in my barn very often.
Funny I always figured one of the dogs would bite him. He runs at them and kicks dirt at them. |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | It would be interesting to see if the child or the parent learns from this. I hate it when people let their kids run amuck aroumd livestock. It happens at every barrel race. I have had kids with those razor skateboards zip behind my horse at a barrel race. Or big wheels? What kind of an idiot turns a kid loose at a barrel race on one of those things so that they can go ride their horse? Sadly, you see it all the time.
Sorry for the vent, but people like this child's mother are to blame, not you. You shouldn't have to worry about the law holding you accountable, but that is the world in which we live. So glad that this little boy is going to be OK. He is very lucky. |
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 Looking for Lady Jockey
Posts: 3747
Location: Rodeos or Baseball games | |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| dme0324 - 2013-11-20 9:44 AM Murphy - 2013-11-20 7:35 AM Nateracer - 2013-11-20 8:29 AM I hope the kid is OK, but I also hope this taught him a lesson. Sorry, maybe that's terribly mean of me this morning, but I'm not in the mood to feel sorry for the little brat when he was probably told to stay away from the horses. I'm on this bus with you.
My Dad has a girlfriend, and her daughter's kids always want to come over to see my horses. They are brats and they don't listen. They are 2 and 8. I told my Dad NO, they cannot come over. Don't bring those kids near my horses. If something ever happened, I know they would point fingers at me.
I hope everything is OK for you, OP. Keep us updated.
Cinch -- hugs to you, I can only imagine how you feel right now. Probably a whole bunch of conflicting emotions tearing you up. Angry, sad, guilty (even though you're not), fear etc etc
I do feel bad he got hurt. The part that made me mad is the fact that his mom had the gall to come into an environment uninvited and allow her child to run amok. The signs everyone talks of were made for a reason. Horses have minds of their own and instincts to protect themselves. But because there are people who forget to use their brains, they end up hurt, causing pain, suffering, worry, and wind up causing someone to Literally PAY out of pocket for their stupidity!!!! Monetary damages are the least of the OPs worries here! She has to live with her feelings about this whole matter for something SHE didn't cause! Maybe the mom will learn to pay attention to the kid on top of the realizing he should listen and that's the big maybe of this whole issue! I'll say it again...I Sincerely Hope the OP comes out on top of this issue. It certainly wasn't her fault. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | I do not know the legalities in your state. but If I were you I would NOT admit any fault.
The child should not have been in the pasture with any animals with a dog on a leash or not. Prayers that everything is ok.
You can not be mad at the horse - any horse would have done the same - It was a terrible accident but your friend is ultimately responsible as she should be aware of the childs surroundings if he is not capbable of behaving. Friend or no friend - I hate to say it but in this day and age that child would not be allowed back on my property - that child is a liability.
I agree check with you homeowners insurance. check state laws before you say anything. |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | Nateracer - 2013-11-20 10:49 AM
dme0324 - 2013-11-20 9:44 AM Murphy - 2013-11-20 7:35 AM Nateracer - 2013-11-20 8:29 AM I hope the kid is OK, but I also hope this taught him a lesson. Sorry, maybe that's terribly mean of me this morning, but I'm not in the mood to feel sorry for the little brat when he was probably told to stay away from the horses. I'm on this bus with you.
My Dad has a girlfriend, and her daughter's kids always want to come over to see my horses. They are brats and they don't listen. They are 2 and 8. I told my Dad NO, they cannot come over. Don't bring those kids near my horses. If something ever happened, I know they would point fingers at me.
I hope everything is OK for you, OP. Keep us updated.
Cinch -- hugs to you, I can only imagine how you feel right now. Probably a whole bunch of conflicting emotions tearing you up. Angry, sad, guilty (even though you're not), fear etc etc
I'm completely with you on this. It's sad a child had to pay for his mother's ignorance and lack of responsibility. This may sound harsh, but some people truly do have to learn the hard way. You can tell them over and over and over not to do something because xyz will happen, but it doesn't actually register with them until xyz DOES happen. The mother is at fault for letting her child wander off, knowing there are horses around, and ESPECIALLY because she already knew her child was chasing them.
I just hope the mother doesn't turn this around and brainwash her child into thinking it was all the horse's fault. I hope she uses it as a learning opportunity that there are rules you must follow, or suffer the consequences. |
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 I Am Always Right
Posts: 4264
Location: stray dump capital of the world | I'm so sorry this happened. Prayers that the little boy will be o.k. I agree with the other posters that the mom is responsible. You can never turn your back on your kid. The word "your" makes them "your" responsibility. Your situation was compounded by a dog who clearly shouldn't have been around horses. Your friend should have known better.
My husband and I have decided not to allow friends with small children out here. That really isn't a major issue since we are in our 50s, but I do have friends at work who want to bring their children out for a "pony" ride. I always tell them no and state that my horses are not "pony" horses. They assume that they are wild and untrained. I honestly don't care what they think as long as they don't bring them here.
Sending prayers for the child, the mother and to you. Hope the mom assumes responsibility as she should. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 707
Location: The stix of Utah | It sounds like you have some great people with legal backgrounds already helping you figure out the laws in your state. I sincerely hope your laws are different than ours. I don't want to be a Debby-Downer but when I was small we had a big black lab that we kept in our completely fenced-in back yard. One night a neighbor boy, my same age, around 7, snuck out of his house and for some reason climbed our fence in our back yard. Our dog went in to guard dog mode and bit his face and did some significant damage. My parents were "at fault". Luckily our homeowners insurance paid all of his medical bills but it still blows my mind to this day that someone can climb in your yard and it is "your fault' if they are injured by an animal...
Prayers for this little boy that everything heals smoothly as expected. |
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 Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | Very glad to hear the little boy will be ok. And I think you going to the hospital and staying show great support.
If I were to offer any advice, hire a lawyer, even just to consult with, just in case. Better to talk to one and not need him, then to be blind sided with a law suit. |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| i would be terrified of lawsuit . if a mom can sue a grocery store for getting her ankle broken by her own kid anyone can get sued
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Over Informed
Posts: 5372
Location: West Tennessee | Nateracer - 2013-11-20 10:49 AM dme0324 - 2013-11-20 9:44 AM Murphy - 2013-11-20 7:35 AM Nateracer - 2013-11-20 8:29 AM I hope the kid is OK, but I also hope this taught him a lesson. Sorry, maybe that's terribly mean of me this morning, but I'm not in the mood to feel sorry for the little brat when he was probably told to stay away from the horses. I'm on this bus with you.
My Dad has a girlfriend, and her daughter's kids always want to come over to see my horses. They are brats and they don't listen. They are 2 and 8. I told my Dad NO, they cannot come over. Don't bring those kids near my horses. If something ever happened, I know they would point fingers at me.
I hope everything is OK for you, OP. Keep us updated.
Cinch -- hugs to you, I can only imagine how you feel right now. Probably a whole bunch of conflicting emotions tearing you up. Angry, sad, guilty (even though you're not), fear etc etc
Oh, I know. I was trying to say that I understood what you were saying & point out that I've seen you & Murphy post enough to know how kind hearted you both are, too. :) That's all I meant. Boy I'm 2 for 2 today, inserting foot -- LOL |
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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
| I called a lawyer recommended to me. For a consultation it's $150, for something I may not need.
Secretary said do not call insurance or anyone else that could be construed as guilt or concern over guilt.
I'm tempted to ask her in a joking manner but don't want to put it in her head. She still considers me a friend, called a bit ago to ask me to go somewhere Friday. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 816
| cinch - 2013-11-20 2:18 PM
I called a lawyer recommended to me. For a consultation it's $150, for something I may not need.
Secretary said do not call insurance or anyone else that could be construed as guilt or concern over guilt.
I'm tempted to ask her in a joking manner but don't want to put it in her head. She still considers me a friend, called a bit ago to ask me to go somewhere Friday.
I would leave it be, offer to pitch in on the hospital bill and just see how it plays out. I know if it were my kid I wouldn't expect you to pay anything and I wouldnt even consider a lawsuit. Accidents happen and it sounds like she knows that. This is just an unfortunate accident that could of been a lot worse and everyone should be thankful that it's not. One thing... I bet he'll think twice next time he runs around a horse and I bet his momma will be a little more strict about his behavior when he comes over. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | JRC - 2013-11-20 2:23 PM cinch - 2013-11-20 2:18 PM I called a lawyer recommended to me. For a consultation it's $150, for something I may not need. Secretary said do not call insurance or anyone else that could be construed as guilt or concern over guilt. I'm tempted to ask her in a joking manner but don't want to put it in her head. She still considers me a friend, called a bit ago to ask me to go somewhere Friday. I would leave it be, offer to pitch in on the hospital bill and just see how it plays out. I know if it were my kid I wouldn't expect you to pay anything and I wouldnt even consider a lawsuit. Accidents happen and it sounds like she knows that. This is just an unfortunate accident that could of been a lot worse and everyone should be thankful that it's not. One thing... I bet he'll think twice next time he runs around a horse and I bet his momma will be a little more strict about his behavior when he comes over.
I would leave it alone.
Don't offer to help with medical bills, it's a kind gesture....but can be construed as admitting guilt. |
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | MS2011 - 2013-11-20 2:36 PM
JRC - 2013-11-20 2:23 PM cinch - 2013-11-20 2:18 PM I called a lawyer recommended to me. For a consultation it's $150, for something I may not need. Secretary said do not call insurance or anyone else that could be construed as guilt or concern over guilt. I'm tempted to ask her in a joking manner but don't want to put it in her head. She still considers me a friend, called a bit ago to ask me to go somewhere Friday. I would leave it be, offer to pitch in on the hospital bill and just see how it plays out. I know if it were my kid I wouldn't expect you to pay anything and I wouldnt even consider a lawsuit. Accidents happen and it sounds like she knows that. This is just an unfortunate accident that could of been a lot worse and everyone should be thankful that it's not. One thing... I bet he'll think twice next time he runs around a horse and I bet his momma will be a little more strict about his behavior when he comes over. I would leave it alone. Don't offer to help with medical bills, it's a kind gesture....but can be construed as admitting guilt.
What she said. Don't offer to pay anything. If there's anything I've learned from watching Judge Mathis, is that if you offer to pay for something, it's because you feel responsible. While it's a kind gesture, if she does pursue legal action, the fact that you paid for any part of it shows you thought you were responsible for it.
It's a really tough situation  |
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| cinch - 2013-11-19 9:20 PM A friend came over this evening right as I was getting horses in to feed. She was not invited, just showed up. Which is fine but her son is very out of control. Normally I try to keep him away from my dogs and horses.
They also brought their little dog. We had already had to get onto him about running up behind horses and letting the dog on leash run up under them.
I get to my last paddock it's getting dark and there is some brush blocking our vision we are still afew steps away from the gate and realize he and dog are chasing my mare. Before we can do anything the dog gets under her back legs and she kicks up and hits the kid right in the face.
She has never kicked never. I don't think she even knew a person was behind her. She could see me so knew I was not behind her. All she knew is something had her around her leg.
I'm just sick about it. She took him to a hospital and I'm trying to find out which one. We don't have a local hospital or any emergency clinic.
Am I legally responsible?
Unfortunately, you probably are responsible legally...morally, in my opinion no but just the way law works. |
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Veteran
Posts: 104
Location: The black prairie of Mississippi | As far as homeowners insurance goes, you may or may not have coverage. It depends on your state. Check with your agent to be sure, but if you have the option to file or not think long and hard. A homeowners claim stays with you for five years. I would try my best to deal with the mother directly and use your liability coverage on your homeowners as a last resort.
This is why I'm crazy and will NOT let other people ride, borrow, or get in the pasture with my horses. I was paranoid before but after working in insurance for five years I'm doubly so now. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 816
| Gunner11 - 2013-11-20 2:43 PM
MS2011 - 2013-11-20 2:36 PM
JRC - 2013-11-20 2:23 PM cinch - 2013-11-20 2:18 PM I called a lawyer recommended to me. For a consultation it's $150, for something I may not need. Secretary said do not call insurance or anyone else that could be construed as guilt or concern over guilt. I'm tempted to ask her in a joking manner but don't want to put it in her head. She still considers me a friend, called a bit ago to ask me to go somewhere Friday. I would leave it be, offer to pitch in on the hospital bill and just see how it plays out. I know if it were my kid I wouldn't expect you to pay anything and I wouldnt even consider a lawsuit. Accidents happen and it sounds like she knows that. This is just an unfortunate accident that could of been a lot worse and everyone should be thankful that it's not. One thing... I bet he'll think twice next time he runs around a horse and I bet his momma will be a little more strict about his behavior when he comes over. I would leave it alone. Don't offer to help with medical bills, it's a kind gesture....but can be construed as admitting guilt.
What she said. Don't offer to pay anything. If there's anything I've learned from watching Judge Mathis, is that if you offer to pay for something, it's because you feel responsible. While it's a kind gesture, if she does pursue legal action, the fact that you paid for any part of it shows you thought you were responsible for it.
It's a really tough situation
I didn't think about it being a gesture of admitting guilt. Better not than. It's just sad now days when an accident happens everyone has to be worried about lawsuits and such. Another contribution made to this world by idiots! |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | When/if the parent tries to file on her health insurance there is going to be questions about the circumstances of an "accident". You can bet the health insurance will be looking for a way to shift the loss to your homeowners policy. |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12704
| Gail - 2013-11-20 4:01 PM My daughter (Emma) reviewed this with her law professor.
This is the answer that was given:
"If your friend is in a state with a statute limiting liability for horse owners, AND she had a sign posted, she can't be liable, even if mom didn't see the sign".
Em also added to me that she is having her torts professor look at it Friday. Em's advisor just it was a really interesting question and enjoyed looking into it.
Emma is really busy with law school and doesn't post much but loves to help on the boards anyway she can.
In Virginia the equine liability laws are so horse owner friendly. It's difficult to understand why all states haven't moved this direction.
We all wish the best for anyone injured by a horse.
We also know that horses are inherently dangerous. All the time.
Maybe it's the thought that horses are 'pets' that confuses so many. They are not 'pets.' They are very large and strong domestic livestock who are reactive to their environment. Dogs and cats are for the most part physically controllable, horses are not.
Thank you Gail for your daughters time and attention on this. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | So sorry you are dealing with this. http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusutst78_27b_101.htm
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 The Vaccinator
Posts: 3810
Location: Slipping down the slope of old age. Boo hoo. | Relieved to read the little one is doing okay. They can dart around and get into trouble so quickly.... very scary. We do not invite small children to our barn or farm for this very reason. We also have our property well fenced. We make every effort to "protect" ourselves and outsiders..... Also, our horse pastures are back away from the road so the horses cannot be seen from the road so they "tempt" anyone. It's a shame you have to go to that extent.... but in this day and time.....
We have the equine liability signs posted on our property and in our barn even though we are not trainers nor provide any type of public lessons, boarding, etc. These signs are prominently posted in several locations on our property and in several locations in and outside our barn and state this is an equine facility, etc., and as such under our state's equine liability law is protected from liability via the state's equine liability law. I ordered my signs through my state's horse council. We also, of course, have liability insurance. |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | MS2011 - 2013-11-20 2:36 PM JRC - 2013-11-20 2:23 PM cinch - 2013-11-20 2:18 PM I called a lawyer recommended to me. For a consultation it's $150, for something I may not need. Secretary said do not call insurance or anyone else that could be construed as guilt or concern over guilt. I'm tempted to ask her in a joking manner but don't want to put it in her head. She still considers me a friend, called a bit ago to ask me to go somewhere Friday. I would leave it be, offer to pitch in on the hospital bill and just see how it plays out. I know if it were my kid I wouldn't expect you to pay anything and I wouldnt even consider a lawsuit. Accidents happen and it sounds like she knows that. This is just an unfortunate accident that could of been a lot worse and everyone should be thankful that it's not. One thing... I bet he'll think twice next time he runs around a horse and I bet his momma will be a little more strict about his behavior when he comes over. I would leave it alone.
Don't offer to help with medical bills, it's a kind gesture....but can be construed as admitting guilt.
I agree with this....but do this ONE thing....sit down and write out everything that you can remember about the accident. I would also take pictures of the area of where it happened since he was inside the fence.......you would be surprised how much you can forget if she decides to come back and sue you (or your insurance company) at a later date. In most states (I believe), she has two years to sue. |
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 Love Me Some Robert Redford
Posts: 2335
Location: WV | Glad the little guy is going to be ok. |
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Expert
Posts: 1304
| I'm glad everything sounds ok for now and he is ok!! I really don't know what's wrong with people. This summer at our fair I was clipping someone's heifer and there was a little boy with NO shoes on who came out of nowhere multiple times to literally hang on the bars of the grooming shoot and pet the cow while I was clipping. I told him nicely to back away because it was dangerous not once, but many many times. She had never been clipped, she could've knocked his head off before I could've said anything!! But luckily she was a spoiled baby... Where were his parents??? Then I saw a few families who let their kids waltz right up to cattle across from where I was at and just pet them like there were a big dog and that dang Hereford went after them throwing its head. What in the world is wrong with people??? A LOT of parents/guardians don't take that even nice animals are ANIMALS and you certainly should not be acting that comfortable around animals, who mind you are 400-2000 lbs, that you don't know!!! I just don't get it....my mom would've spanked my ass or tore me a new one if I went up to an animal like that or without asking! |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
Location: wherever my daughter's running | I agree with CYA about the signs. We have our state law concerning posted very visabilly at our barn. As far as your home owners insurance I would caution you on that one. Years ago we had a hose get out and ran in front of a car. Thankfully the car was going slow. No one was injured and the horse only need a few stitches. It did do damage to the car. The highway patrol advised us to contact our home owners insurance. They did pay to repair the car. Then 6 months later they cancelled our policy as they deemed us high risk. This was the only claim we had ever made with them. We had a difficult time getting coverage after that. |
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Veteran
Posts: 204
Location: North Louisiana | Do people not realize fences are for your safety as well as the animals. Sorry I veiw her as a neglient mother. My son would get his behind beat over climbing through a fence and chasing an animal! |
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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
| Gail - 2013-11-20 4:01 PM My daughter (Emma) reviewed this with her law professor.
This is the answer that was given:
"If your friend is in a state with a statute limiting liability for horse owners, AND she had a sign posted, she can't be liable, even if mom didn't see the sign".
Em also added to me that she is having her torts professor look at it Friday. Em's advisor just it was a really interesting question and enjoyed looking into it.
Emma is really busy with law school and doesn't post much but loves to help on the boards anyway she can.
Thank you so much and that is what I recalled when that law came out. Signs must be visable but you do not have to lead people to them and read it for them.
We took the child back to the doctor today. Doctor made the remark "Horses are mean". The boy spoke up and said "No they aren't. She didn't do it on purpose. It was my fault." He tells me he isn't scared and isn't mad at her. He knows what he did. So he's admitting to everyone that will listen to him (including total strangers) that he was at fault. Of course, over time I'm sure he will forget the details but they know what he did. |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | I'm glad he's doing well. The Dr. needs to be  |
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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
| CYA Ranch - 2013-11-22 7:40 PM I'm glad he's doing well. The Dr. needs to be
He's doing amazingly well. Is face is still swollen, mainly his mouth. Part of that could be because he runs his mouth non stop and his Mom said he's been pulling at the stitches. I was worried about that because he's a kid that will find a thread in the couch and within minutes have all the stuffing torn out. lol  |
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 Big Gun
Posts: 2216
Location: Texas | What do you think you would do in this situation if you were the mother of the little boy, who seemed to have no control over her son and doesnt know much about horses or how fast they can react? I sure hope y'all can can still be friends and she watches over her son more closely when or if they come over |
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My Heelers are Heroes
Posts: 4685
| 3rdtimesacharm - 2013-11-22 8:34 PM What do you think you would do in this situation if you were the mother of the little boy, who seemed to have no control over her son and doesnt know much about horses or how fast they can react? I sure hope y'all can can still be friends and she watches over her son more closely when or if they come over
She may be a better Mother than me. I think I would have beat him to death along time ago. He's the only kid I've ever heard of to be expelled from pre-school. She was told he could not come back to regular school so he has to go to something called ALE. It's for out of control kids. He is so bad that the teacher has literally walked across the street to the high school and gotten my son out of class to come over and try to calm him down.
I could write a book on the things he's done. He is on medication and I'm sure it helps some but must not help enough.
I do want to stay her friend. She's fun and we have great times. But I never invite them over because of him. However, when he weather clears up he has asked to come see the horse so that she knows he is not mad at her. I will let him do that so he feels better about it. |
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