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 Works Hard For The Money
Posts: 4469
  
Location: Memphis, TN | I know they have been discussed quite a bit here. Just saw one of his foals is running in the Super Stakes at the BFA. Owned by Jud Little, horse name- Scamper To Dat Cash, sire- Clayton, dam- Desierita Juno by Juno Dat Cash. I know people have been wanting to see how his get will perform so here is that chance. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
 
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | Poor horse......he doesn't even realize the amount of pressure on him....M |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I feel like its the people putting pressure on him. he probrably could care less.. He will go do his best.. if people wouldnt judge them or others it wouldnt be such a huge ordeal. just my opinion of course..it was the owners choice and their money to do it. its really no ones business but i also realize thats not how the barrelracing community feels..as in all the horses.. some days are good some are bad.. they cant be superstars all the time. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 808
| I've been waiting to see one of his babies run for years now. It'll be interesting and the conversations on BHW that will go with it even more so lol.
I looked the horse up and found that in 2012 the horse sold for 9k so I wonder how JL ended back up with him.
Edited by The1CowgirlsEnvy 2013-11-28 6:45 PM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Bibliafarm - 2013-11-28 12:10 PM I feel like its the people putting pressure on him. he probrably could care less.. He will go do his best.. if people wouldnt judge them or others it wouldnt be such a huge ordeal. just my opinion of course..it was the owners choice and their money to do it. its really no ones business but i also realize thats not how the barrelracing community feels..as in all the horses.. some days are good some are bad.. they cant be superstars all the time.
Very true, even the Greatest have off days. I bet there will be many waiting to see one run and ifs a bad run holy cow they will be picking it to pecies. I'm sure you will have some really nice hard running baby's and then there will be the ones that dont run. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 907
Location: a secret | Who is the jockey??? even if he has a bad day you know it will be the riders fault...... jmo..... |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | barrelracin85 - 2013-11-28 10:50 AM I know they have been discussed quite a bit here. Just saw one of his foals is running in the Super Stakes at the BFA. Owned by Jud Little, horse name- Scamper To Dat Cash, sire- Clayton, dam- Desierita Juno by Juno Dat Cash. I know people have been wanting to see how his get will perform so here is that chance.
Will be very exciting to see how he does! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1062
Location: Probably On the Road to the Next Barrel Race! | The1CowgirlsEnvy - 2013-11-28 6:40 PM
I've been waiting to see one of his babies run for years now. It'll be interesting and the conversations on BHW that will go with it even more so lol.
I looked the horse up and found that in 2012 the horse sold for 9k so I wonder how JL ended back up with him.
I'm kinda surprised that horse only sold for $9,000...just sayin, I woulda thought those foals would have brought a super-premium price. |
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The Expert Expert
Posts: 3455
Location: Western performance horse Hades | In response to quote above -- He didn't sell.
Edited by zipper 2013-11-29 9:25 AM
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Works Hard For The Money
Posts: 4469
Location: Memphis, TN | zipper - 2013-11-29 9:23 AM
In response to quote above -- He didn't sell.
I would guess they had a reserve set and it wasn't met.
My only thought on the matter is it's a tough race to premier at. They must believe in this colt to pay the entry fee and go up against the caliber of colts running. |
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 Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | If Clayton's foal crop is discounted because this one has a bad run, then those will be the folks who never wanted to give Clayton's progeny a chance anyways. The proof will be in the long term I'd never breed to him, but am excited to see how his foals perform and mature in the pen.. |
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Veteran
Posts: 171
| Phillip Kenyon started both the Clayton colts. They were going really well this summer. Can't wait to see them run! |
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 Left Out
Posts: 6797
Location: Silex Missouri | If people discount them it's because this one will be out of a good mare. Not some pasture horse that someone had the money to breed to Clayton. It has been my understanding Charmayne was choosey about the mares bred to him. Meaning, the mares were performers or have/had already produced performers. So if the first crop flops you can bet people will consider it to be a direct reflection on his siring ability. |
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Cat Collector
Posts: 1430
| I think that these poor colts dont stand a chance, everyone is holding such high expectations for them, until one makes the NFR they will never be good enough & thats sad. I hope they all do great just to shut some people up! |
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Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | I agree with the point about the quality of mares he was bred too. This first crop will certainly be a good test for his siring ability, but I still think it will be several years before we see a true reflection of Clayton's ability as a sire. We can say this about any sire, though . . . breed to the best group of mares one can find and hope the foals end up in hands of people who get them trained and working to their potential. If a stud has a large percentage of poor performers and/or no stand-outs from mares who are proven excellent producers, we'll know the common denominator. Maybe it will take time to find Clayton's best nick, but I don't believe it is fair or accurate to judge siring ability on a small handful of futurity entries. |
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 Saint Stacey
| JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with. 1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO. |
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
Well, for what it's worth, I thoroughly enjoy reading all of your honest opinions.... |
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM
SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I second that. |
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| Enjoyed reading this thread. Honestly if they don't start doing something soon ill be worried. He looks more like a little cow horse than anything... I think more and more barrel racers are going for race lines these days. Wish the best for his offspring and fingers crossed that they do well. Its exciting to keep up with! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 641
Location: Michigan | I know when he first started standing to the public his stud fee was $4,000... is it still that high? The only place I saw a stud fee listed was at the SDP Buffalo Ranch page and it said the fee is $2,500... so did they decide maybe $4k was unreasonable? Just asking... |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | SKM - 2013-11-29 4:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I agree about a crop of some but not just one or two.. |
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Works Hard For The Money
Posts: 4469
Location: Memphis, TN | Ridenrun4745 - 2013-11-29 4:33 PM
LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM
SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I second that.
Third. Very valid points. |
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 "Tamer of the Fiery Dragon"
Posts: 5418
Location: Depends where the next barrel race is..... | I watched this horse being worked this summer and he is really cool! Don't hold anything against a horse in their first few races. Futurities are the start of their careers, not their career. I know what he is, I have seen his sister work too. Both are nice big boned horses that really liked to work. Since I have seen them, I am looking for one or might breed a mare to him myself. Nice, nice, nice! |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
| DVM2Be - 2013-11-29 4:40 PM
I know when he first started standing to the public his stud fee was $4,000... is it still that high? The only place I saw a stud fee listed was at the SDP Buffalo Ranch page and it said the fee is $2,500... so did they decide maybe $4k was unreasonable? Just asking...
I don't know about barrel horse studs, but TBs typically drop the stud fee on the third/fourth crop. Then when their two year olds hit the track the stud fee will reflect their success/failure on the track. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 641
Location: Michigan | BMW - 2013-11-29 7:21 PM DVM2Be - 2013-11-29 4:40 PM I know when he first started standing to the public his stud fee was $4,000... is it still that high? The only place I saw a stud fee listed was at the SDP Buffalo Ranch page and it said the fee is $2,500... so did they decide maybe $4k was unreasonable? Just asking... I don't know about barrel horse studs, but TBs typically drop the stud fee on the third/fourth crop. Then when their two year olds hit the track the stud fee will reflect their success/failure on the track.
Oh good to know! That makes sense. I guess I wasn't sure why his would drop already since he hasn't had any offspring perform yet... But maybe they know something we don't.  |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | SwishMiss - 2013-11-29 5:37 PM Enjoyed reading this thread. Honestly if they don't start doing something soon ill be worried. He looks more like a little cow horse than anything... I think more and more barrel racers are going for race lines these days. Wish the best for his offspring and fingers crossed that they do well. Its exciting to keep up with!
Isn't this year the first year that the first crop is old enough to do something? What year did he start standing? I can't remember. . . |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Swannranch - 2013-11-30 8:02 PM SwishMiss - 2013-11-29 5:37 PM Enjoyed reading this thread. Honestly if they don't start doing something soon ill be worried. He looks more like a little cow horse than anything... I think more and more barrel racers are going for race lines these days. Wish the best for his offspring and fingers crossed that they do well. Its exciting to keep up with! Isn't this year the first year that the first crop is old enough to do something? What year did he start standing? I can't remember. . .
yes.. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | barrelracin85 - 2013-11-29 4:42 PM Ridenrun4745 - 2013-11-29 4:33 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I second that. Third. Very valid points.
Agree, whole heartedly. I hope that if he fails as a sire they stop breeding him. but that probably wont happen. Have to make all that cloning money back some how right? |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2013-11-30 8:48 PM barrelracin85 - 2013-11-29 4:42 PM Ridenrun4745 - 2013-11-29 4:33 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I second that. Third. Very valid points.
I wish people felt that way regarding all the stallions not just the cloned ones. |
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Regular
Posts: 57
Location: Wishing I was riding | Bibliafarm - 2013-11-30 9:57 PM
Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2013-11-30 8:48 PM barrelracin85 - 2013-11-29 4:42 PM Ridenrun4745 - 2013-11-29 4:33 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I second that. Third. Very valid points.
Amen to that!!! |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| SKM - 2013-11-30 1:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with. 1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I agree with the mare power that people have given him he better have some winning big time!!! I'd rather see him breed crap mares and produce great horses. That's a sign of a great stud. |
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Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | akammes1997 - 2013-11-30 10:08 PM Bibliafarm - 2013-11-30 9:57 PM Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2013-11-30 8:48 PM barrelracin85 - 2013-11-29 4:42 PM Ridenrun4745 - 2013-11-29 4:33 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I second that. Third. Very valid points. Amen to that!!!
Trust me I agree with that too, but it kind of opens a small can of worms and there is a grey area. IMO, it gets in a little deep. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2013-12-01 4:29 AM
akammes1997 - 2013-11-30 10:08 PM Bibliafarm - 2013-11-30 9:57 PM Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2013-11-30 8:48 PM barrelracin85 - 2013-11-29 4:42 PM Ridenrun4745 - 2013-11-29 4:33 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I second that. Third. Very valid points. Amen to that!!!
Brings up an interesting thought. What crop years were Scamper and Hot Shot for their sires? |
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Works Hard For The Money
Posts: 4469
Location: Memphis, TN | Just curious, does anyone know if any of the other horse clones have foals showing yet? I tried to see if any of the get out of the Smart Little Lena clones were showing yet but didn't have any luck. I know it's just like any stud though. It's all a gamble. Amazing performers do not always mean amazing producers. This is just one of the most expensive gambles we have seen lol. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | barrelracin85 - 2013-12-01 7:49 AM
Just curious, does anyone know if any of the other horse clones have foals showing yet? I tried to see if any of the get out of the Smart Little Lena clones were showing yet but didn't have any luck. I know it's just like any stud though. It's all a gamble. Amazing performers do not always mean amazing producers. This is just one of the most expensive gambles we have seen lol.
None of the clones in cutting ever made it to a futurity that I remember. Most SLL went abroad for breeding purposes. The other clones in cutting are now breeding. Nothing from a second generation clone is old enough, I believe. |
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Works Hard For The Money
Posts: 4469
Location: Memphis, TN | rockette - 2013-12-01 7:54 AM
barrelracin85 - 2013-12-01 7:49 AM
Just curious, does anyone know if any of the other horse clones have foals showing yet? I tried to see if any of the get out of the Smart Little Lena clones were showing yet but didn't have any luck. I know it's just like any stud though. It's all a gamble. Amazing performers do not always mean amazing producers. This is just one of the most expensive gambles we have seen lol.
None of the clones in cutting ever made it to a futurity that I remember. Most SLL went abroad for breeding purposes. The other clones in cutting are now breeding. Nothing from a second generation clone is old enough, I believe.
Yeah that's about all I found in regards to SLL. Of course he is different because he proved himself as a producer before he was cloned. With Scamper it is completely unknown until now. I want to say that the people behind the SLL clones voted not to show the clones and to use them strictly for breeding. There was a video of one cutting but I don't think they actually competed on him. Just did it more to show he could and would do it. I didn't think the Hotshot clones were breeding yet and couldn't remember what other horses were cloned. I just don't follow it enough honestly. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | barrelracin85 - 2013-12-01 8:03 AM
rockette - 2013-12-01 7:54 AM
barrelracin85 - 2013-12-01 7:49 AM
Just curious, does anyone know if any of the other horse clones have foals showing yet? I tried to see if any of the get out of the Smart Little Lena clones were showing yet but didn't have any luck. I know it's just like any stud though. It's all a gamble. Amazing performers do not always mean amazing producers. This is just one of the most expensive gambles we have seen lol.
None of the clones in cutting ever made it to a futurity that I remember. Most SLL went abroad for breeding purposes. The other clones in cutting are now breeding. Nothing from a second generation clone is old enough, I believe.
Yeah that's about all I found in regards to SLL. Of course he is different because he proved himself as a producer before he was cloned. With Scamper it is completely unknown until now. I want to say that the people behind the SLL clones voted not to show the clones and to use them strictly for breeding. There was a video of one cutting but I don't think they actually competed on him. Just did it more to show he could and would do it. I didn't think the Hotshot clones were breeding yet and couldn't remember what other horses were cloned. I just don't follow it enough honestly.
I think they cloned a couple of champion bucking horses. I want to say Air wolf? Wonder how they are going? |
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2013-11-30 7:48 PM barrelracin85 - 2013-11-29 4:42 PM Ridenrun4745 - 2013-11-29 4:33 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I second that. Third. Very valid points.
right....because if his foals don't have all kinds of succes in the big barrel pens, they are obviously worthless horses |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | akammes1997 - 2013-11-30 11:08 PM Bibliafarm - 2013-11-30 9:57 PM Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2013-11-30 8:48 PM barrelracin85 - 2013-11-29 4:42 PM Ridenrun4745 - 2013-11-29 4:33 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with. 1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO. I second that. Third. Very valid points. Amen to that!!!
Edited by dhdqhllc 2013-12-01 8:40 AM
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | dhdqhllc - 2013-12-01 8:38 AM akammes1997 - 2013-11-30 11:08 PM Bibliafarm - 2013-11-30 9:57 PM Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2013-11-30 8:48 PM barrelracin85 - 2013-11-29 4:42 PM Ridenrun4745 - 2013-11-29 4:33 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I second that. Third. Very valid points. Amen to that!!!
Dang.....I need to put a bullet in all my horses.
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | my point is .. he can produce good horses.. just because they dont win at barrelracing doesnt mean they arent good horses.. also I think to many focus on clones being a issue .I have no yes or no about any of it.. but it gets rather tiring hearing how so many put so much on the cloned .. and not enough on the stallions reproducing out there breeding to just make $$...over and over again..quality is better then quantity |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Bibliafarm - 2013-12-01 9:47 AM my point is .. he can produce good horses.. just because they dont win at barrelracing doesnt mean they arent good horses.. also I think to many focus on clones being a issue .I have no yes or no about any of it.. but it gets rather tiring hearing how so many put so much on the cloned .. and not enough on the stallions reproducing out there breeding to just make $$...over and over again..quality is better then quantity
You are so very right Bibs. I only have 1 broodmare and that's only because she's my retired barrel mare who poured out heart and soul for me so I want to "try" and get those genetics back for the future. I have no desire to have a stockpile of horses in fact I've left her open a year and now she'll foal in the spring. Whether I breed her back or not this spring is still up in the air. How many horses do I need? Each stallion I breed to gives me an anxiety attack because in my little world I feel like I need to make the most of that foal to represent that stallion to the best of my ability. Sadly my ability probably isn't up to the standards of what my horses should have. I have a long yearling filly sired by Bender. I don't want to let Tia down. I'm weird like that though. |
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | CYA Ranch - 2013-12-01 9:54 AM
Bibliafarm - 2013-12-01 9:47 AM my point is .. he can produce good horses.. just because they dont win at barrelracing doesnt mean they arent good horses.. also I think to many focus on clones being a issue .I have no yes or no about any of it.. but it gets rather tiring hearing how so many put so much on the cloned .. and not enough on the stallions reproducing out there breeding to just make $$...over and over again..quality is better then quantity
You are so very right Bibs. I only have 1 broodmare and that's only because she's my retired barrel mare who poured out heart and soul for me so I want to "try" and get those genetics back for the future. I have no desire to have a stockpile of horses in fact I've left her open a year and now she'll foal in the spring. Whether I breed her back or not this spring is still up in the air. How many horses do I need? Each stallion I breed to gives me an anxiety attack because in my little world I feel like I need to make the most of that foal to represent that stallion to the best of my ability. Sadly my ability probably isn't up to the standards of what my horses should have. I have a long yearling filly sired by Bender. I don't want to let Tia down. I'm weird like that though.
I get what you're saying. I think what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense.
I have to wonder how much of an incorrect emphasis we are putting on clones being the exact same as their original? I don't know if this will come out right, but I guess much of what I'm wondering is the age-old genetics vs. environment emphasis on growth and development. I'm not discounting that the DNA is the same, but like Clayton, while built much like Scamper, it appears that he has different markings (star, snip, etc)...so I would imagine that there are other differences as well? Maybe not...
I guess another way to put it - do you breed to a stud only for their DNA? Or do you breed for how the horse expresses that DNA? (and might 2 horses 'express' their DNA differently due to different environment?) I think my point it - I'd rather take Clayton for who he is, rather than Scamper's clone.
I'll be honest, I'm an au natural type of gal, I wouldn't breed a mare to a clone if given a free breeding. BUT, that being said, I wouldn't judge a horse or person on their choices, or solely on their parentage. I like to see how they perform. |
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 Veteran
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| Ridenrun4745 - 2013-12-01 12:37 PM
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-01 9:54 AM
Bibliafarm - 2013-12-01 9:47 AM my point is .. he can produce good horses.. just because they dont win at barrelracing doesnt mean they arent good horses.. also I think to many focus on clones being a issue .I have no yes or no about any of it.. but it gets rather tiring hearing how so many put so much on the cloned .. and not enough on the stallions reproducing out there breeding to just make $$...over and over again..quality is better then quantity
You are so very right Bibs. I only have 1 broodmare and that's only because she's my retired barrel mare who poured out heart and soul for me so I want to "try" and get those genetics back for the future. I have no desire to have a stockpile of horses in fact I've left her open a year and now she'll foal in the spring. Whether I breed her back or not this spring is still up in the air. How many horses do I need? Each stallion I breed to gives me an anxiety attack because in my little world I feel like I need to make the most of that foal to represent that stallion to the best of my ability. Sadly my ability probably isn't up to the standards of what my horses should have. I have a long yearling filly sired by Bender. I don't want to let Tia down. I'm weird like that though.
I get what you're saying. I think what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense.
I have to wonder how much of an incorrect emphasis we are putting on clones being the exact same as their original? I don't know if this will come out right, but I guess much of what I'm wondering is the age-old genetics vs. environment emphasis on growth and development. I'm not discounting that the DNA is the same, but like Clayton, while built much like Scamper, it appears that he has different markings (star, snip, etc )...so I would imagine that there are other differences as well? Maybe not...
I guess another way to put it - do you breed to a stud only for their DNA? Or do you breed for how the horse expresses that DNA? (and might 2 horses 'express' their DNA differently due to different environment? ) I think my point it - I'd rather take Clayton for who he is, rather than Scamper's clone.
I'll be honest, I'm an au natural type of gal, I wouldn't breed a mare to a clone if given a free breeding. BUT, that being said, I wouldn't judge a horse or person on their choices, or solely on their parentage. I like to see how they perform.
Here is a way to look at it. FDD Dynasty is a TWIN to First Dynastia. TWIN- exact same DNA. However FDD Dynasty ran better and so far is producing better and stands for a higher stud fee. While First Dynastia stands at a lower price, doesn't get the quality book of mares FDD does. So, to answer your question people want not only the genetics but they want a sire who has performed and has proven himself as a sire of performers. |
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Expert
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| CYA Ranch - 2013-12-01 10:54 AM Bibliafarm - 2013-12-01 9:47 AM my point is .. he can produce good horses.. just because they dont win at barrelracing doesnt mean they arent good horses.. also I think to many focus on clones being a issue .I have no yes or no about any of it.. but it gets rather tiring hearing how so many put so much on the cloned .. and not enough on the stallions reproducing out there breeding to just make $$...over and over again..quality is better then quantity You are so very right Bibs. I only have 1 broodmare and that's only because she's my retired barrel mare who poured out heart and soul for me so I want to "try" and get those genetics back for the future. I have no desire to have a stockpile of horses in fact I've left her open a year and now she'll foal in the spring. Whether I breed her back or not this spring is still up in the air. How many horses do I need? Each stallion I breed to gives me an anxiety attack because in my little world I feel like I need to make the most of that foal to represent that stallion to the best of my ability. Sadly my ability probably isn't up to the standards of what my horses should have. I have a long yearling filly sired by Bender. I don't want to let Tia down. I'm weird like that though.
I hate to see you in distress over this so I'll come get her. That way the pressure is on me and you can sleep good at night! 
I completely understand what you're saying, I feel the same way!!! |
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Location: Northeast Nebraska | So, Scampers sire and dam, did they produce anything besides Scamper that was any good? |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| GoGaited - 2013-12-01 3:16 PM
So, Scampers sire and dam, did they produce anything besides Scamper that was any good?
Not really. As far as I am concerned Scamper was a freak. To me if you look at his blood lines nothing screams barrel horse. Yet he is by far the best barrel horse ever. As to Clayton who knows as of yet he is just an experiment. I think he has a good chance at it mainly because he has been bred to some really good mares. If his colts do well than the question will be does it come from the mares or the stud. Right now I would lean towards the mares and the money behind them. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
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Location: In the Hills of Texas | jbhoot - 2013-12-01 3:54 PM GoGaited - 2013-12-01 3:16 PM So, Scampers sire and dam, did they produce anything besides Scamper that was any good? Not really. As far as I am concerned Scamper was a freak. To me if you look at his blood lines nothing screams barrel horse. Yet he is by far the best barrel horse ever. As to Clayton who knows as of yet he is just an experiment. I think he has a good chance at it mainly because he has been bred to some really good mares. If his colts do well than the question will be does it come from the mares or the stud. Right now I would lean towards the mares and the money behind them.
I agree.
Years ago I tried a mare that was out of Scamper's sire and she was a total puke. She wasn't wired right.
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Miss Southern Sunshine
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Location: South Central Florida | barrelracin85 - 2013-12-01 9:03 AM rockette - 2013-12-01 7:54 AM barrelracin85 - 2013-12-01 7:49 AM Just curious, does anyone know if any of the other horse clones have foals showing yet? I tried to see if any of the get out of the Smart Little Lena clones were showing yet but didn't have any luck. I know it's just like any stud though. It's all a gamble. Amazing performers do not always mean amazing producers. This is just one of the most expensive gambles we have seen lol. None of the clones in cutting ever made it to a futurity that I remember. Most SLL went abroad for breeding purposes. The other clones in cutting are now breeding. Nothing from a second generation clone is old enough, I believe. Yeah that's about all I found in regards to SLL. Of course he is different because he proved himself as a producer before he was cloned. With Scamper it is completely unknown until now. I want to say that the people behind the SLL clones voted not to show the clones and to use them strictly for breeding. There was a video of one cutting but I don't think they actually competed on him. Just did it more to show he could and would do it. I didn't think the Hotshot clones were breeding yet and couldn't remember what other horses were cloned. I just don't follow it enough honestly.
Im pretty sure there is only one Hot Shot clone. I read there were 4 or 5 implanted. First one born was sold and it passed away from something NONgentic, like an accident or something. Then the one they have now and the other two did not take. I'm not and expert, but I like watching and I'm pretty sure this is correct.
However the Hot Shot clones should not be old enough yet. Not sure he is either. I think he is maybe 4 this year? He is breding, but I don't know if he did last year, but his ad is in Barrel Horse News...well not a specific ad but he is listed on the breeders page. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | jbhoot - 2013-12-01 4:54 PM GoGaited - 2013-12-01 3:16 PM So, Scampers sire and dam, did they produce anything besides Scamper that was any good? Not really. As far as I am concerned Scamper was a freak. To me if you look at his blood lines nothing screams barrel horse. Yet he is by far the best barrel horse ever. As to Clayton who knows as of yet he is just an experiment. I think he has a good chance at it mainly because he has been bred to some really good mares. If his colts do well than the question will be does it come from the mares or the stud. Right now I would lean towards the mares and the money behind them.
Agreed, but I think this is true of any stud. If you look at the best of the best Studs, and the star horses from their breding, very VERY few are from no name mare sires. I'm not sure that was gramatically correct, but I think you know what I mean. |
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I Really Love Jeans
Posts: 3173
Location: North Dakota | The people that pay the premium to breed to a clone put the time and professional training into the horse they get. When you have a great mare and top notch training they are going to do better than average. I personally would not breed to a clone but i don't have any negative feelings towards anyone who does. |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | roanrider - 2013-12-01 2:25 PM CYA Ranch - 2013-12-01 10:54 AM Bibliafarm - 2013-12-01 9:47 AM my point is .. he can produce good horses.. just because they dont win at barrelracing doesnt mean they arent good horses.. also I think to many focus on clones being a issue .I have no yes or no about any of it.. but it gets rather tiring hearing how so many put so much on the cloned .. and not enough on the stallions reproducing out there breeding to just make $$...over and over again..quality is better then quantity You are so very right Bibs. I only have 1 broodmare and that's only because she's my retired barrel mare who poured out heart and soul for me so I want to "try" and get those genetics back for the future. I have no desire to have a stockpile of horses in fact I've left her open a year and now she'll foal in the spring. Whether I breed her back or not this spring is still up in the air. How many horses do I need? Each stallion I breed to gives me an anxiety attack because in my little world I feel like I need to make the most of that foal to represent that stallion to the best of my ability. Sadly my ability probably isn't up to the standards of what my horses should have. I have a long yearling filly sired by Bender. I don't want to let Tia down. I'm weird like that though.
There are some days I'd put a stamp on her butt and send her to you. Reason being is I've spoiled her so much she's annoying as hell.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | What people tend to forget...........the "stars" have to be aligned just right for any horse to become a GREAT horse. Scamper is the perfect example. Secretariat is another great example and I can think of many more.........Hotshot. Bloodlines, conformation, etc. go nowhere if not in the right hands at the right time.
PLUS, many GREAT horses are standing around in somebody's field or "gasp' in somebody's backyard. It just depends on how much money an owner is willing to spend to get the horse "proven". Heck, at the right show, barrel run, etc. any horse could be a 1st class horse. |
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Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | Ridenrun4745 - 2013-12-01 12:37 PM CYA Ranch - 2013-12-01 9:54 AM Bibliafarm - 2013-12-01 9:47 AM my point is .. he can produce good horses.. just because they dont win at barrelracing doesnt mean they arent good horses.. also I think to many focus on clones being a issue .I have no yes or no about any of it.. but it gets rather tiring hearing how so many put so much on the cloned .. and not enough on the stallions reproducing out there breeding to just make $$...over and over again..quality is better then quantity You are so very right Bibs. I only have 1 broodmare and that's only because she's my retired barrel mare who poured out heart and soul for me so I want to "try" and get those genetics back for the future. I have no desire to have a stockpile of horses in fact I've left her open a year and now she'll foal in the spring. Whether I breed her back or not this spring is still up in the air. How many horses do I need? Each stallion I breed to gives me an anxiety attack because in my little world I feel like I need to make the most of that foal to represent that stallion to the best of my ability. Sadly my ability probably isn't up to the standards of what my horses should have. I have a long yearling filly sired by Bender. I don't want to let Tia down. I'm weird like that though. I get what you're saying. I think what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense. I have to wonder how much of an incorrect emphasis we are putting on clones being the exact same as their original? I don't know if this will come out right, but I guess much of what I'm wondering is the age-old genetics vs. environment emphasis on growth and development. I'm not discounting that the DNA is the same, but like Clayton, while built much like Scamper, it appears that he has different markings (star, snip, etc )...so I would imagine that there are other differences as well? Maybe not... I guess another way to put it - do you breed to a stud only for their DNA? Or do you breed for how the horse expresses that DNA? (and might 2 horses 'express' their DNA differently due to different environment? ) I think my point it - I'd rather take Clayton for who he is, rather than Scamper's clone. I'll be honest, I'm an au natural type of gal, I wouldn't breed a mare to a clone if given a free breeding. BUT, that being said, I wouldn't judge a horse or person on their choices, or solely on their parentage. I like to see how they perform.
Excellent point . . . |
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Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | Wouldn't it be interesting if they found Clayton's foals excelled at reining or another discipline other than barrels? That'd be a hoot. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 808
| dhdqhllc - 2013-12-01 6:36 AM
Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2013-11-30 7:48 PM barrelracin85 - 2013-11-29 4:42 PM Ridenrun4745 - 2013-11-29 4:33 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-29 4:03 PM SKM - 2013-11-29 3:55 PM
JMHO but they have no choice but to prove him with his first 2 crops. He was set up to prove Greatness by being born to begin with.
1) He's bred an elite book of mares his entire career as a stallion to date.
2) He has a higher stud fee even as a freshman sire than even Frechman's Guy or Dash Ta Fame ever did. Name one stallion that sires predominately barrel horses that has ever stood for $4,000+ their first year at stud.
3) They've hand picked the mares and given him more opportunities that way than even Frenchmans Guy or any other well know barrel sire who started out just breeding any mare that booked to them.
4) His foals are in the hands of the top trainers in the nation.
5) They have hung their hat on the fact that Scamper was the most elite barrel horse of all time so he deserves to pass on his genetics.
I hate to say this but if he doesn't produce winners in his first couple of crops, then it wasn't because of lack of mares, training, etc. It will be because of lack of siring ability. Again, that is JHMO.
I second that. Third. Very valid points.
I don't think anyone is saying the foals will be/are worthless, just that I wouldn't want to spend $2500/$4000 to get a foal that will never be more then a 3D/4D horse.
Edited by The1CowgirlsEnvy 2013-12-01 8:31 PM
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Expert
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| CYA Ranch - 2013-12-01 7:52 PM roanrider - 2013-12-01 2:25 PM CYA Ranch - 2013-12-01 10:54 AM Bibliafarm - 2013-12-01 9:47 AM my point is .. he can produce good horses.. just because they dont win at barrelracing doesnt mean they arent good horses.. also I think to many focus on clones being a issue .I have no yes or no about any of it.. but it gets rather tiring hearing how so many put so much on the cloned .. and not enough on the stallions reproducing out there breeding to just make $$...over and over again..quality is better then quantity You are so very right Bibs. I only have 1 broodmare and that's only because she's my retired barrel mare who poured out heart and soul for me so I want to "try" and get those genetics back for the future. I have no desire to have a stockpile of horses in fact I've left her open a year and now she'll foal in the spring. Whether I breed her back or not this spring is still up in the air. How many horses do I need? Each stallion I breed to gives me an anxiety attack because in my little world I feel like I need to make the most of that foal to represent that stallion to the best of my ability. Sadly my ability probably isn't up to the standards of what my horses should have. I have a long yearling filly sired by Bender. I don't want to let Tia down. I'm weird like that though.
I'll be west bound in the morning.  |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Kansas and loving it | hotpaints - 2013-12-01 7:12 PM
What people tend to forget...........the "stars" have to be aligned just right for any horse to become a GREAT horse. Scamper is the perfect example. Secretariat is another great example and I can think of many more.........Hotshot. Bloodlines, conformation, etc. go nowhere if not in the right hands at the right time.
PLUS, many GREAT horses are standing around in somebody's field or "gasp' in somebody's backyard. It just depends on how much money an owner is willing to spend to get the horse "proven". Heck, at the right show, barrel run, etc. any horse could be a 1st class horse.
Actually I disagree with Secretariat being in that category. His sire Bold Ruler led th TB sire list 9 times. His dam Something Royal was the daughter of an English triple Crown winner, she also produced stakes winner Sir Gaylord.
Edited by rockette 2013-12-01 8:51 PM
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Location: Texas! | I think she means the whole Bold Ruler colts were not known for running distance races and he won...smoked the field in the Belmont by 31 lengths proving everyone wrong on his ability to run distance. |
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 Night Chat Leader
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Location: Home....Smiling M Farms | The only Hot Shot clone left, is standing this year. He's at VF with an intro fee of $2500.
5 were 'made', 3 made it to birth, 2 died in freak accidents. Another Shot is the only one left. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Kansas and loving it | WYOracer - 2013-12-01 10:56 PM
I think she means the whole Bold Ruler colts were not known for running distance races and he won...smoked the field in the Belmont by 31 lengths proving everyone wrong on his ability to run distance.
I still disagree, Bold Ruler sired a chsmpion almost every year. He was well known and can be found in many champion horses pedigrees. While the barrel horses we are talking about have sires who only sired named champion. I would put John Henry in place of Secretariat. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | rockette - 2013-12-01 8:50 PM hotpaints - 2013-12-01 7:12 PM What people tend to forget...........the "stars" have to be aligned just right for any horse to become a GREAT horse. Scamper is the perfect example. Secretariat is another great example and I can think of many more.........Hotshot. Bloodlines, conformation, etc. go nowhere if not in the right hands at the right time.
PLUS, many GREAT horses are standing around in somebody's field or "gasp' in somebody's backyard. It just depends on how much money an owner is willing to spend to get the horse "proven". Heck, at the right show, barrel run, etc. any horse could be a 1st class horse. Actually I disagree with Secretariat being in that category. His sire Bold Ruler led th TB sire list 9 times. His dam Something Royal was the daughter of an English triple Crown winner, she also produced stakes winner Sir Gaylord.
I admit that I am not that "up" on TB racing facts. However, just how many star race horses did Secretariat produce, male or female? Here in Virginia, Secretariat is considered a fluke that was never able to successfully reproduce equal to or better than himself.
I also have a perfect example here at my farm. We own a TB mare sired by Rahy. The year her dam was bred for her, his stud fee was $10,000. As a race horse he was a phenom but as a sire he was a dink. However, he is considered a broodmare sire and his grandget have done extremely well. So for example, cloning Rahy would be a waste of money and time IMO. |
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"aint no Barbie"
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Location: san antonio texas | For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby?? |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | carlos - 2013-12-02 8:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby??
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | CYA Ranch - 2013-12-02 8:14 AM carlos - 2013-12-02 8:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby??
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Left Out
Posts: 6797
Location: Silex Missouri | carlos - 2013-12-02 8:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby??
I don't think there is one person on this thread who has stated that they "hate Clayton and his babies". I have read this thread several times. The debate, by some, is will the success or failure of this first crop be the determining factor as to if he is a successful stallion. Another point is was it genetics people were after or the expression of those genetics. But not once did I see someone on this particular thread say they hated him or his offspring. Heck for that matter not sure why it is that big of a deal. There are a lot of barrel racers who don't want to or won't own a horse with Beduino bloodlines. Clayton is no different. there will be those who are against cloning .There are those who are mad because people chose to clone their horses and now AQHA is being forced to register those foals. But again, I have not seen anyone say they hated Clayton or his offspring. Any young sire is open to scrutinizing. Whether or not they have produced a one horse wonder or if they are a flop. It's part of the owning of a stallion. |
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Location: Deep South | willyturnit - 2013-12-02 8:38 AM
carlos - 2013-12-02 8:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby??
I don't think there is one person on this thread who has stated that they "hate Clayton and his babies". I have read this thread several times. The debate, by some, is will the success or failure of this first crop be the determining factor as to if he is a successful stallion. Another point is was it genetics people were after or the expression of those genetics. But not once did I see someone on this particular thread say they hated him or his offspring. Heck for that matter not sure why it is that big of a deal. There are a lot of barrel racers who don't want to or won't own a horse with Beduino bloodlines. Clayton is no different. there will be those who are against cloning .There are those who are mad because people chose to clone their horses and now AQHA is being forced to register those foals. But again, I have not seen anyone say they hated Clayton or his offspring. Any young sire is open to scrutinizing. Whether or not they have produced a one horse wonder or if they are a flop. It's part of the owning of a stallion.
Well said. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | carlos - 2013-12-02 8:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby??
I'll take one... if someone has one they hate... I will do them that favor....just throwing that out there lol |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
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Location: South Central Florida | willyturnit - 2013-12-02 9:38 AM carlos - 2013-12-02 8:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby?? I don't think there is one person on this thread who has stated that they "hate Clayton and his babies". I have read this thread several times. The debate, by some, is will the success or failure of this first crop be the determining factor as to if he is a successful stallion. Another point is was it genetics people were after or the expression of those genetics. But not once did I see someone on this particular thread say they hated him or his offspring. Heck for that matter not sure why it is that big of a deal. There are a lot of barrel racers who don't want to or won't own a horse with Beduino bloodlines. Clayton is no different. there will be those who are against cloning .There are those who are mad because people chose to clone their horses and now AQHA is being forced to register those foals. But again, I have not seen anyone say they hated Clayton or his offspring. Any young sire is open to scrutinizing. Whether or not they have produced a one horse wonder or if they are a flop. It's part of the owning of a stallion.
This was well said. I happen to like cloning, I would bred to a clone in a second if I had the money. I don't think it's for everyone, but I did not see any Clayton bashing here.
My only problem with the cloning, is the court decission. I think someone should start a cloning registery. . .could be a part of AQHA or a private organization. I would like to see them registered. BUT I don't understand why the Government can force a private organization or association to set it's rules a certain way. Just seems intrusive...I know big shock. |
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| I am confused...Clayton is Scampers clone right? And clones cant be registered or can they? And can you enter horses in the BFA that arent registered for proof of age? |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
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Location: The Oklahoma plains. | c-mae - 2013-12-02 9:29 AM I am confused...Clayton is Scampers clone right? And clones cant be registered or can they? And can you enter horses in the BFA that arent registered for proof of age?
Pretty sure you can enter non registered horses in BFA and several futurities with age verification by vet or whatever the governing rules say for each event. |
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Location: Sapulpa, OK | I still think the mare is 80% of the genetic makeup of the foal...... so if he is only bred to good mares, he will produce. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | palgalz - 2013-12-02 9:38 AM I still think the mare is 80% of the genetic makeup of the foal...... so if he is only bred to good mares, he will produce.
No....it's 50/50 nuclear DNA
Foal may take on more "behavioral" aspects from the mare from being raised by her...but in terms of genetic makeup, it's 50/50
Minus the mtDNA....but that is a VERY small segment of DNA... MUCH less than nuclear DNA |
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Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | carlos - 2013-12-02 9:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby?? No they wont.. because a few people I have run across are dead set aganist them being successful.and I am not saying ones on this thread.... 
Edited by Bibliafarm 2013-12-02 10:09 AM
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
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Location: In a happy place | carlos - 2013-12-02 7:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby??
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Kansas and loving it | hotpaints - 2013-12-02 6:53 AM
rockette - 2013-12-01 8:50 PM hotpaints - 2013-12-01 7:12 PM What people tend to forget...........the "stars" have to be aligned just right for any horse to become a GREAT horse. Scamper is the perfect example. Secretariat is another great example and I can think of many more.........Hotshot. Bloodlines, conformation, etc. go nowhere if not in the right hands at the right time.
PLUS, many GREAT horses are standing around in somebody's field or "gasp' in somebody's backyard. It just depends on how much money an owner is willing to spend to get the horse "proven". Heck, at the right show, barrel run, etc. any horse could be a 1st class horse. Actually I disagree with Secretariat being in that category. His sire Bold Ruler led th TB sire list 9 times. His dam Something Royal was the daughter of an English triple Crown winner, she also produced stakes winner Sir Gaylord.
I also have a perfect example here at my farm. We own a TB mare sired by Rahy. The year her dam was bred for her, his stud fee was $10,000. As a race horse he was a phenom but as a sire he was a dink. However, he is considered a broodmare sire and his grandget have done extremely well. So for example, cloning Rahy would be a waste of money and time IMO.
Ok, I get where you are coming from. I thought you meant Secretariat wad a fluke because Bold Ruler was not a good sire. Now I understand you mean Secretariat as a performer than sire. I gotcha now. I agree.  |
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"aint no Barbie"
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Location: san antonio texas | willyturnit - 2013-12-02 8:38 AM carlos - 2013-12-02 8:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby?? I don't think there is one person on this thread who has stated that they "hate Clayton and his babies". I have read this thread several times. The debate, by some, is will the success or failure of this first crop be the determining factor as to if he is a successful stallion. Another point is was it genetics people were after or the expression of those genetics. But not once did I see someone on this particular thread say they hated him or his offspring. Heck for that matter not sure why it is that big of a deal. There are a lot of barrel racers who don't want to or won't own a horse with Beduino bloodlines. Clayton is no different. there will be those who are against cloning .There are those who are mad because people chose to clone their horses and now AQHA is being forced to register those foals. But again, I have not seen anyone say they hated Clayton or his offspring. Any young sire is open to scrutinizing. Whether or not they have produced a one horse wonder or if they are a flop. It's part of the owning of a stallion.
WO... wait a second I'm not starting a fight so please back off. OK OK hate is a strong word I threw it out there hastily and without thought so I apologize for saying "hate"... Please forgive me and move on from that. Just substitute the word "hate" for "don't like" or "has something against". |
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Location: Pendleton, OR | All I have to say is... "Run Jack Run!" |
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Left Out
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Location: Silex Missouri | carlos - 2013-12-02 12:28 PM willyturnit - 2013-12-02 8:38 AM carlos - 2013-12-02 8:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby?? I don't think there is one person on this thread who has stated that they "hate Clayton and his babies". I have read this thread several times. The debate, by some, is will the success or failure of this first crop be the determining factor as to if he is a successful stallion. Another point is was it genetics people were after or the expression of those genetics. But not once did I see someone on this particular thread say they hated him or his offspring. Heck for that matter not sure why it is that big of a deal. There are a lot of barrel racers who don't want to or won't own a horse with Beduino bloodlines. Clayton is no different. there will be those who are against cloning .There are those who are mad because people chose to clone their horses and now AQHA is being forced to register those foals. But again, I have not seen anyone say they hated Clayton or his offspring. Any young sire is open to scrutinizing. Whether or not they have produced a one horse wonder or if they are a flop. It's part of the owning of a stallion.
I'm not attacking you. I use larger font because it is easier for me to read. |
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Location: Great NW | carlos - 2013-12-02 6:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby??
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Expert
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| rockette - 2013-12-02 11:07 AM
hotpaints - 2013-12-02 6:53 AM
rockette - 2013-12-01 8:50 PM hotpaints - 2013-12-01 7:12 PM What people tend to forget...........the "stars" have to be aligned just right for any horse to become a GREAT horse. Scamper is the perfect example. Secretariat is another great example and I can think of many more.........Hotshot. Bloodlines, conformation, etc. go nowhere if not in the right hands at the right time.
PLUS, many GREAT horses are standing around in somebody's field or "gasp' in somebody's backyard. It just depends on how much money an owner is willing to spend to get the horse "proven". Heck, at the right show, barrel run, etc. any horse could be a 1st class horse. Actually I disagree with Secretariat being in that category. His sire Bold Ruler led th TB sire list 9 times. His dam Something Royal was the daughter of an English triple Crown winner, she also produced stakes winner Sir Gaylord.
I also have a perfect example here at my farm. We own a TB mare sired by Rahy. The year her dam was bred for her, his stud fee was $10,000. As a race horse he was a phenom but as a sire he was a dink. However, he is considered a broodmare sire and his grandget have done extremely well. So for example, cloning Rahy would be a waste of money and time IMO.
Ok, I get where you are coming from. I thought you meant Secretariat wad a fluke because Bold Ruler was not a good sire. Now I understand you mean Secretariat as a performer than sire. I gotcha now. I agree.
Secretariat's sons were average race horses, but his daughters will keep his name around for a long time-very sought after as broodmares. And some of those daughters were scorpions on the race track as well. |
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Always Off Topic
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Location: ND | which brings us to short sighted and narrow vision versus far sighted and wide vision.......
it's not til generations later that we really understand what an inidividuals genetics mean to the performance of that line....
which in the end is good that there are folks that realize that instead of banking their opinions of first foal crops..... |
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Location: Kansas and loving it | Doesn't Trevor Brazile have a Clayton baby? Wonder if Shada will train the horse for barrels or if Trevor will rope on it? |
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Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | willyturnit - 2013-12-02 11:48 AM carlos - 2013-12-02 12:28 PM willyturnit - 2013-12-02 8:38 AM carlos - 2013-12-02 8:12 AM For those of you that hate Clayton and his babies.... So what's gonna happen when a few years from now some of you are at some barrel race somewhere and someone comes in and just smokes the field or just turns your head because this horse just looked nice and ran a nice set of cans. You go up and ask the person about his/her horse and it happens to be a Clayton baby!!! Cuz that's gonna happen.
Will you admit then that you actually complimented a horse that turned out to be a Clayton baby?? I don't think there is one person on this thread who has stated that they "hate Clayton and his babies". I have read this thread several times. The debate, by some, is will the success or failure of this first crop be the determining factor as to if he is a successful stallion. Another point is was it genetics people were after or the expression of those genetics. But not once did I see someone on this particular thread say they hated him or his offspring. Heck for that matter not sure why it is that big of a deal. There are a lot of barrel racers who don't want to or won't own a horse with Beduino bloodlines. Clayton is no different. there will be those who are against cloning .There are those who are mad because people chose to clone their horses and now AQHA is being forced to register those foals. But again, I have not seen anyone say they hated Clayton or his offspring. Any young sire is open to scrutinizing. Whether or not they have produced a one horse wonder or if they are a flop. It's part of the owning of a stallion.
Yeah, I like large font too.
Sorry, sorry I couldn't resist! |
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More bootie than waist!
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Location: Riding Crackhead. | rockette - 2013-12-08 9:04 AM Doesn't Trevor Brazile have a Clayton baby? Wonder if Shada will train the horse for barrels or if Trevor will rope on it?
If they do have one of his colts he/she would be in excellent hands and will be exciting to see what happens to that one in the future. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Kansas and loving it | CYA Ranch - 2013-12-08 10:24 AM
rockette - 2013-12-08 9:04 AM Doesn't Trevor Brazile have a Clayton baby? Wonder if Shada will train the horse for barrels or if Trevor will rope on it?
If they do have one of his colts he/she would be in excellent hands and will be exciting to see what happens to that one in the future.
I'm watching Being Trevor Brazile before I go to work. Just got me thinking that I thought Charmayne said that they had one. |
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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: La Vernia, TX | Scamper himself wasn't a futurity horse. He was a phenomenally consistent and durable athlete that was able to stay at the top of competition for an entire decade. It will certainly take as long to see if Clayton's get inherit the gritty hardiness that made Scamper great. |
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"Tamer of the Fiery Dragon"
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Location: Depends where the next barrel race is..... | To answer your doubts as to whether or not the Clayton babies will futurity.... a Clayton colt just won $7500 in the Super Stakes race! Way to go Janae and Scamp! |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| Oregonracer2 - 2013-12-10 7:50 PM
To answer your doubts as to whether or not the Clayton babies will futurity.... a Clayton colt just won $7500 in the Super Stakes race! Way to go Janae and Scamp!
Cool! What was the bottom side? |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Oregonracer2 - 2013-12-10 7:50 PM To answer your doubts as to whether or not the Clayton babies will futurity.... a Clayton colt just won $7500 in the Super Stakes race! Way to go Janae and Scamp!
Wooohoo! I wish I could have seen that. If someone has a video please share! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| bennie1 - 2013-12-10 5:53 PM
Oregonracer2 - 2013-12-10 7:50 PM
To answer your doubts as to whether or not the Clayton babies will futurity.... a Clayton colt just won $7500 in the Super Stakes race! Way to go Janae and Scamp!
Cool! What was the bottom side?
Juno Dat Cash |
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Always Off Topic
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Location: ND | CYA Ranch - 2013-12-10 7:53 PM Oregonracer2 - 2013-12-10 7:50 PM To answer your doubts as to whether or not the Clayton babies will futurity.... a Clayton colt just won $7500 in the Super Stakes race! Way to go Janae and Scamp! Wooohoo! I wish I could have seen that. If someone has a video please share!
where did that fit in as far as placings??? |
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Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| dhdqhllc - 2013-12-10 7:55 PM
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-10 7:53 PM Oregonracer2 - 2013-12-10 7:50 PM To answer your doubts as to whether or not the Clayton babies will futurity.... a Clayton colt just won $7500 in the Super Stakes race! Way to go Janae and Scamp! Wooohoo! I wish I could have seen that. If someone has a video please share!
I *think* it was 7th in the slot race. |
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 Living on the edge of common sense
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Location: Carpenter, WY | Just sitting here kind of wondering ....we get a 'Clayton' thread about once a month. I wonder why the FG clones aren't getting the same scrutiny
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
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Location: WYOMING | bennie1 - 2013-12-10 9:05 PM dhdqhllc - 2013-12-10 7:55 PM CYA Ranch - 2013-12-10 7:53 PM Oregonracer2 - 2013-12-10 7:50 PM To answer your doubts as to whether or not the Clayton babies will futurity.... a Clayton colt just won $7500 in the Super Stakes race! Way to go Janae and Scamp! Wooohoo! I wish I could have seen that. If someone has a video please share! I *think* it was 7th in the slot race.
Very cool but my big question is....
how many Clayton babies will be named Scamp? |
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Always Off Topic
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Location: ND | teehaha - 2013-12-11 9:12 AM Just sitting here kind of wondering....we get a 'Clayton' thread about once a month. I wonder why the FG clones aren't getting the same scrutiny
have they bred anything with those clones???? |
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Living on the edge of common sense
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Location: Carpenter, WY | dhdqhllc - 2013-12-11 7:25 AM teehaha - 2013-12-11 9:12 AM Just sitting here kind of wondering....we get a 'Clayton' thread about once a month. I wonder why the FG clones aren't getting the same scrutiny
Edited by teehaha 2013-12-11 9:40 AM
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Always Off Topic
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Location: ND | teehaha - 2013-12-11 9:37 AM dhdqhllc - 2013-12-11 7:25 AM teehaha - 2013-12-11 9:12 AM Just sitting here kind of wondering....we get a 'Clayton' thread about once a month. I wonder why the FG clones aren't getting the same scrutiny
i'm sure they haven't........
when they do, the twitterpating will begin.....or tweeting or twatting or whatever.....do they really have their own Twitter feed???? |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Michigan | bennie1 - 2013-12-10 8:05 PM dhdqhllc - 2013-12-10 7:55 PM CYA Ranch - 2013-12-10 7:53 PM Oregonracer2 - 2013-12-10 7:50 PM To answer your doubts as to whether or not the Clayton babies will futurity.... a Clayton colt just won $7500 in the Super Stakes race! Way to go Janae and Scamp! Wooohoo! I wish I could have seen that. If someone has a video please share! I *think* it was 7th in the slot race.
BFA posted the results on their website and it looks like yes he was 7th! http://www.barrelfuturitiesofamerica.com/results/2013-bfa-world-championship/188-super-stakes.html
I would love to see a video too if anyone digs one up... :) |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
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| I think what seriously fascinates me about Scamper is his body. When I think about his physical resiliency to make run after run after run in crazy rodeo ground conditions without the soundness tools and science we have now---Wow!
I would absolutely love to try a colt by Clayton from a badass black type mare. Never know, he might pay off his stud fees just in saving medical bills. I personally feel the barrel horse pen could use a shot of down and dirty bone and hardiness.
It's all an absolute crap shoot whether you get a good baby wth a good brain or not. Dad raised 5 colts out of his old pet Julie mare and the neighbors stud. (Yes, albeit old school performance blood, ah hem, sort of like Scampers) One was my kid horse by the time he was 4. One was my grandmothers 'maw maw horse'. The other three ended up in a bucking string, with one going all the way to Madison Square Garden.
My point: I wouldn't mind getting to sort through some Clayton colts to find that 'one' and paying to do it--the 'one' would totally be worth it!!!! |
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 Rebel Without a Cause
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Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | Oregonracer2 - 2013-12-10 7:50 PM To answer your doubts as to whether or not the Clayton babies will futurity.... a Clayton colt just won $7500 in the Super Stakes race! Way to go Janae and Scamp!
I was SOOO happy to see that horse place!! Maybe now it'll shut people up - at least I can hope - I get tired of all the negativity towards Clayton! |
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I AM being nice
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Location: MD | Having now seen a couple of Clayton foals run this week, I have to say, I have been impressed with them. Nice looking horses that have shown some definite quality. |
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Always Off Topic
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Location: ND | WrapSnap - 2013-12-11 8:02 PM Having now seen a couple of Clayton foals run this week, I have to say, I have been impressed with them. Nice looking horses that have shown some definite quality.
i think some of the evaluation of Clayton's offspring needs to be held until it is seen how his offspring out of good mares and not just the pick of the litter great mares perform. But even at this point, he is a success.......
i'm still gonna wait and save my money for Bo's clone.... |
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I AM being nice
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Location: MD | dhdqhllc - 2013-12-11 8:10 PM
WrapSnap - 2013-12-11 8:02 PM Having now seen a couple of Clayton foals run this week, I have to say, I have been impressed with them. Nice looking horses that have shown some definite quality.
i think some of the evaluation of Clayton's offspring needs to be held until it is seen how his offspring out of good mares and not just the pick of the litter great mares perform. But even at this point, he is a success.......
i'm still gonna wait and save my money for Bo's clone....
I agree that I'm not going to base my overall opinion of Clayton as a sire off of the two colts that I have seen this week. My opinion of the two colts that I have seen is that they have both exhibited some quality. I don't think we'll ever see any foals out of anything other than "pick of the litter" mares. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Kansas and loving it | Does anyone have any updates on Clayton babies? Or Another Shot? |
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | Heres my opinion for what its worth... A month or so ago I read an article that did research on a large group of TB and tied in their breeding and ranked them with different crosses (elite/ weak mare/sire). Here the order they were ranked after the research was done.
1. Elite Mare, Weak Stallion
2. Elite Mare, Elite stallion
3. Weak mare, Weak Stallion
4. Weak Mare, Elite Stallion
With that being said, and considering Clayton was bred to "Elite mares," I would only expect them to pan out well performing. However we need to remember not every horse is cut out to make a futurity horse, some are late bloomers. IMO Scamper was not bred to be anything but a "late bloomer." In my mind I will be curious as to what the coming years bring with his offspring more then anything. Now say in the next 3-4 years none of them made anything, then I would say he just didn't have siring power (Secretariat NEVER made a great sire in racing, but was a good maternal sire). It happens and no one knows what he will produce it was a big risk to begin with, now we sit and watch. |
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Location: Kansas and loving it | I was wondering how they were doing. I am not trying to start a fight. Cloning controversy aside. Curious if they were like peppy San badgers, need a day job every day. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | Whoop Z Day Z - 2015-08-23 12:57 AM Heres my opinion for what its worth... A month or so ago I read an article that did research on a large group of TB and tied in their breeding and ranked them with different crosses (elite/ weak mare/sire). Here the order they were ranked after the research was done. 1. Elite Mare, Weak Stallion 2. Elite Mare, Elite stallion 3. Weak mare, Weak Stallion 4. Weak Mare, Elite Stallion With that being said, and considering Clayton was bred to "Elite mares," I would only expect them to pan out well performing. However we need to remember not every horse is cut out to make a futurity horse, some are late bloomers. IMO Scamper was not bred to be anything but a "late bloomer." In my mind I will be curious as to what the coming years bring with his offspring more then anything. Now say in the next 3-4 years none of them made anything, then I would say he just didn't have siring power (Secretariat NEVER made a great sire in racing, but was a good maternal sire). It happens and no one knows what he will produce it was a big risk to begin with, now we sit and watch.
Very interesting.
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Only Elite mares should be bred to anything. JMHO |
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 Been Blessed
Posts: 7587
Location: Living in my Promised Land | Nevertooold - 2015-08-23 12:27 PM Only Elite mares should be bred to anything. JMHO
How many times can I like this post? You are so right! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| Nevertooold - 2015-08-23 12:27 PM
Only Elite mares should be bred to anything. JMHO
This kind of made me chuckle, especially on this thread. Neither Scamper's dam or sire were necessarily "elite" horses. |
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Saint Stacey
| cyount2009 - 2015-08-24 12:58 PM
Nevertooold - 2015-08-23 12:27 PM
Only Elite mares should be bred to anything. JMHO
This kind of made me chuckle, especially on this thread. Neither Scamper's dam or sire were necessarily "elite" horses.
And exactly how many Scamper's have there been? He is one of a kind for a reason and a far cry from what is normal. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | SKM - 2015-08-24 2:11 PM cyount2009 - 2015-08-24 12:58 PM Nevertooold - 2015-08-23 12:27 PM Only Elite mares should be bred to anything. JMHO This kind of made me chuckle, especially on this thread. Neither Scamper's dam or sire were necessarily "elite" horses. And exactly how many Scamper's have there been? He is one of a kind for a reason and a far cry from what is normal.
Supports my post. LOL
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Clayton foals