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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
   
Location: South Central Florida | This may have been discussed, but does anyone know if and how they are going to do the drug testing at the NFR?
I'm just curious how it will work. Like every horse every run? Random horses on each run? Winners only on each run?
I would think drawing blood on every run would be a tad taxing on any horse x 10, and some will place just about every run.
Just my mind wandering curious if anyone knows. |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
 
Location: Way up North | I would think it would be random if they are actually even doing it. I can't see them drawing blood on fifteen horses for ten rounds, especially beings some of those horses will be run all ten rounds. Can you imagine the costs on 150 blood tests? Plus I sure wouldn't want blood pulled on my horse ten days in a row especially if they are also a bleeder and already getting stuck for lasix. (I have no idea if WPRA allows lasix or not, just an example.) |
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Location: Keeping up with the numbers! | I have no idea about testing at the NFR, but I do know they tested at the WPRA finals in Waco. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | BeanCounter - 2013-12-01 5:55 PM
I have no idea about testing at the NFR, but I do know they tested at the WPRA finals in Waco.
Do you know how they did it? I was thinking more about the poor horses being stuck so much even more than the cost. But I also think if your going to test...then test. This would be the main environment I think you would want to know.
I'm not sure I'm a big fan of testing yet. I don't mind the testing, but I don't really like the current rules as I understand them. I don't run in the WPRA, so it's just an observation, but I'm just not sure it's clear or fair. I understand what they are trying to do and eliminate and I like the idea, but not the way they are doing it.
just my opinion. I will be curious about the NFR though and how they are going to implement it.
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 The Non Sky Diver
Posts: 9004
Location: SE Louisiana | It has been talked about here before.... with a lot of squawking.... I bet there would be more squawking if they tested the riders instead of the horses....  |
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Veteran
Posts: 256
| Swannranch - 2013-12-01 5:03 PM
BeanCounter - 2013-12-01 5:55 PM
I have no idea about testing at the NFR, but I do know they tested at the WPRA finals in Waco.
Do you know how they did it? I was thinking more about the poor horses being stuck so much even more than the cost. But I also think if your going to test...then test. This would be the main environment I think you would want to know.
I'm not sure I'm a big fan of testing yet. I don't mind the testing, but I don't really like the current rules as I understand them. I don't run in the WPRA, so it's just an observation, but I'm just not sure it's clear or fair. I understand what they are trying to do and eliminate and I like the idea, but not the way they are doing it.
just my opinion. I will be curious about the NFR though and how they are going to implement it.
Wouldnt they just **** test them? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | Komet - 2013-12-01 6:11 PM It has been talked about here before.... with a lot of squawking.... I bet there would be more squawking if they tested the riders instead of the horses....
 Years ago, I groomed for a top Grand Prix Jumper Rider...........I can say she had way more drugs and booze on board than her horses. Did she win, you bet she did. She got more out of a horse than most people dream of getting! She is still a first class, "get er done" type of horsewoman and I have always had a lot of respect for her. She takes 1st class care of her horses but she does expect 110% from her riders. |
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 Talent Agent 
Location: OK panhandle | My mom got tested at Salinas, it was random, just depended on your number, they've done it at few rodeos this year, all been random, including short go's. I haven't heard anything about NFR, but imagine they will. |
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 Ace Ventura Pet Detective
Posts: 2411
Location: Wisconsin | Wouldnt that be interesting |
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 Colored Jean Queen
Posts: 1282
Location: TX | I've heard from an inside source, there's no way they will be able to get testing done at the NFR |
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | The drug testing that has been done has shown that there isn't a drug problem in the WPRA. The same people are winning and have tested negative. Im sure USEF will keep taking the money the WPRA keeps throwing away by using their lab for these tests. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | I went back, again, and did a search about the WPRA and drug testing. I can only find 6 threads in the last 2 years, and 2 of them were not really discussions, 1 was a question about the fines and penalties.
I don't really understand what the "dead horse" post meant. No one really answered the few questions asked in the last 2 years and I think it's a relevant subject.
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Swannranch - 2013-12-01 9:30 PM I went back, again, and did a search about the WPRA and drug testing. I can only find 6 threads in the last 2 years, and 2 of them were not really discussions, 1 was a question about the fines and penalties.
I don't really understand what the "dead horse" post meant. No one really answered the few questions asked in the last 2 years and I think it's a relevant subject.
I would've sworn it's been discussed and cussed more than that. It IS a very good question!
Maybe several of the previous threads were zapped into neverneverland? |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-01 10:18 PM The drug testing that has been done has shown that there isn't a drug problem in the WPRA. The same people are winning and have tested negative. Im sure USEF will keep taking the money the WPRA keeps throwing away by using their lab for these tests.
I hope this is true. I have heard of several positive tests but not what it was positive for, and suspentions and fines...but they were kept quiet. I hope what I heard was not true, but they were in the top jocky's in the nation.
Maybe if they find nothing they will eventually drop it, or change it to just illegal drugs?
But back to my original question. . .I thought I remembered last year that the testing started with the new year, so they announced they would be testing at the NFR, but then they changed it and said the NFR was subject to the '12 rules and it would not happen until '13 NFR. So, I guess we'll never know for sure.
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I've heard enough accounts of people who were notorious for doping their horses, to the extent that it was "common knowledge". I don't know why it's such a controversial topic. It's pretty clear to me that there's a definite role for testing for performance enhancing drugs. This whole matter needs to be cleaned up, particularly at the higher levels of competition. Obviously, it's not feasible to drug test at every small, Podunk rodeo, or every jackpot, but if the WPRA has a policy in place, then it ought to be applied. I don't think every horse needs to be tested every day, as many of the PEDs can be detected for several days after they are ingested. If horses are to be tested, then the collection process should be random, and witnessed. It seems to me that the most challenging aspect of this is determining what constitutes a "performance enhancing drug", and then going from there. If it is considered to be "cheating" when humans use PEDs, then it's cheating when barrel racers dope their horses with the same objective in mind. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-02 9:55 AM I've heard enough accounts of people who were notorious for doping their horses, to the extent that it was "common knowledge". I don't know why it's such a controversial topic. It's pretty clear to me that there's a definite role for testing for performance enhancing drugs. This whole matter needs to be cleaned up, particularly at the higher levels of competition. Obviously, it's not feasible to drug test at every small, Podunk rodeo, or every jackpot, but if the WPRA has a policy in place, then it ought to be applied. I don't think every horse needs to be tested every day, as many of the PEDs can be detected for several days after they are ingested. If horses are to be tested, then the collection process should be random, and witnessed. It seems to me that the most challenging aspect of this is determining what constitutes a "performance enhancing drug", and then going from there. If it is considered to be "cheating" when humans use PEDs, then it's cheating when barrel racers dope their horses with the same objective in mind.
I agree with this. My current understanding of the policy as of now, is kind of weird. There are rules about Bute and Banamine and Equioxx, but they stated (from WPRA in old threads I looked up) that they were not looking for that. But if it's in the rules??? How and who gets to decide which drugs you will ignore and which you are going to enforce. Add to that, the rules do state that the penalties and fines are subject to the committee. So does that mean it's not the same for everyone? If illegal drugs are found, why wouldnt they be disqualified and out for the year? I guess I am just not sure of the way it's stated. But I would think the NFR would be the most likely place someone might use something so should be testing there.
Determining what exactally is a PED, to me, is the question. But in large part, that is still a very opinion based decission. For some...everything is a PED, Lasix, Adequan, Bute, Trihist. For others none of those are a problem but the big ones are illegal anyway (I don't even know what most of them are even after it was explained to me).
Some issues should be managed by your personal vet, and youself together, but illegal is ILLEGAL.
I also think posting the findings would be a major deterant. If someone I know was doping, is selling horses, I would like to know that. It would effect my decission. Also publication would assure the rules are being regulated fairly.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | It seems to me that certain "drugs" such as Legend and Adequan shouldn't be banned. Neither should NSAIDS like Bute or Banamine. In fact, I'm not sure certain bronchodilators should be banned, provided a vet is willing to provide documentation that a horse has reactive airway disease. Clearly, certain stimulants and anabolics have no place, though. |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| It is my understanding that reasonable amounts of bute, banamine, Lasix, etc.....are allowed provided your vet furnishes them a statement with a few days of being tested. I would love to know who has been tested, fined, and suspended just out of curiosity. I have a feeling I know who one is. It may be purely coincidental but I noticed a couple horses quit performing near as well after the drug testing began. IMO, they should test at the NFR if they are going to test all year long but I doubt they do because of the negative publicity that would result if someone did get suspended or results changed.  |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-02 10:41 AM It seems to me that certain "drugs" such as Legend and Adequan shouldn't be banned. Neither should NSAIDS like Bute or Banamine. In fact, I'm not sure certain bronchodilators should be banned, provided a vet is willing to provide documentation that a horse has reactive airway disease. Clearly, certain stimulants and anabolics have no place, though.
I agree with this!!! I don't even know what or how Frog Juice works...even though it was explained to me. It sounds so dangerous. I have also been told that cocaine is common which makes no sense to me. Having never used anything like that, in my mind it would just make a horse run CRAZY, not collected and neat which makes good runs. BUT they are both illegal under any circumstances....so. . . . .
Also, I have seen it argued here that running a horse on bute or banamine is cruel and if the horse needs it, he should not be running. I DISAGREE, but again, it's an opinion. Adequal and Legend seem fine, but in a totally NO PED's environment...they seem like PEDs. I mean, our mare is 12, when she needs her hocks injected....she does not run well...hocks done and adequan back on board...she runs way better. So for some, thats a PED. |
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Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | I will, again, say no problems have been found when tested. A positive test does not mean a problem.
They tested for everything...legal drugs, illegal drugs or narcotics.
The people accused of winning due to doping, were not when tested, and they are still winning.
Had I been tested, my horse would have tested positive, but NOT OVER THE LEGAL LIMITS, on LEGAL DRUGS. Still, I would have a positive test.
This is what the tests have shown.
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-02 9:41 AM
It seems to me that certain "drugs" such as Legend and Adequan shouldn't be banned. Neither should NSAIDS like Bute or Banamine. In fact, I'm not sure certain bronchodilators should be banned, provided a vet is willing to provide documentation that a horse has reactive airway disease. Clearly, certain stimulants and anabolics have no place, though.
Those drugs are not banned. I am not sure about the regulations with adequan and legend, but the NSAIDs are not banned. You have to follow rules when administering them- you have to give the label dose of the drug, and you can't give multiple types of NSAIDs at the same time.
I'm on the fence with bronchodilators. I know several people who were giving clenbuterol without a diagnosis and just did it because they fire harder. We've had to use it on horses diagnosed with cicatrix, even though I am not 100% how much its actually doing since the cicatrix is on their pharynx…we've also used it on bleeders every once in a while..
Ventipulmin is a beta agonist, which I know you know all that. So with horses not only is it increasing their airways, it's also ramping up their sympathetic tone- increasing heart rate, contractility,conduction velocity, skeletal muscle strength, skeletal muscle vasodilation, etc.
Just a fun side note- the reason why horses sweat when given ventipulmin is because they are adrenergic sweaters.
Edited by casualdust07 2013-12-02 11:59 AM
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BHW's Simon Cowell
Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | They aren't going to tell the public if someone tested bad. No way. I don't think that not hearing about someone testing for a banned subject proves there hasn't been any bad tests because you would never hear about it because of legal ramifications. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 488
Location: torrington, wy | Drug testing rules only have as much bite as the big dog allows. |
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 On the Countdown
Posts: 2934
Location: Texas | Does WPRA just test blood or do they also do urine?
I drug test at a world show every year, and we are known to get the same horses throughout the day, and the 2 weeks. If we bleed them once, we will not request blood after that, it is only urine, for that day. But the NFR and rodeo are different playing feilds and the schedule is a little more hectic.
But also, not everything shows up in urine or blood. I have had to follow my fair share because they did not want blood pulled, or others that are pushy and want a blood test.
Edited by scamper 2013-12-02 1:28 PM
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Mrs. Troy
Location: western Nebraska | The only year they drug tested at the nfr was l989 and they did the winner and a random draw. They followed us out of the alley and someone stayed with you until you cooled your horse out. They took urine and then we went to the drug tent and they took blood. My horse was the random draw the first go and the winner the 2nd so he got tested twice. THey took 40ccs of blood which I thought was a lot.
This only lasted for maybe 5 go rounds but maybe only four I can't remember until it was stopped because of a lawsuit. Sherry Cervi's grey horse Troubles was not having any part of the blood being drawn and nearly tore the tent apart. It was endangering him and everyone around him so that was the main reason it was stopped. Someone or some horse was going to get hurt. They didn't find anything illegal then either but of course that was a long time ago and I don't think we had that many drugs we knew about or at least I didn't! haha
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | doglady - 2013-12-02 1:36 PM The only year they drug tested at the nfr was l989 and they did the winner and a random draw. They followed us out of the alley and someone stayed with you until you cooled your horse out. They took urine and then we went to the drug tent and they took blood. My horse was the random draw the first go and the winner the 2nd so he got tested twice. THey took 40ccs of blood which I thought was a lot.
This only lasted for maybe 5 go rounds but maybe only four I can't remember until it was stopped because of a lawsuit. Sherry Cervi's grey horse Troubles was not having any part of the blood being drawn and nearly tore the tent apart. It was endangering him and everyone around him so that was the main reason it was stopped. Someone or some horse was going to get hurt. They didn't find anything illegal then either but of course that was a long time ago and I don't think we had that many drugs we knew about or at least I didn't! haha
Holy cow 40 ccs is a lot! |
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Cat Collector
Posts: 1430
| My opinion is that if someone gets tested and its positive then i think it should be made public, I do not agree with some of the drugs on the list.. but hey frog juice has worked wonders for "some"" |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
Location: West Tennessee | ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-02 11:08 AM I will, again, say no problems have been found when tested. A positive test does not mean a problem.
They tested for everything...legal drugs, illegal drugs or narcotics.
The people accused of winning due to doping, were not when tested, and they are still winning.
Had I been tested, my horse would have tested positive, but NOT OVER THE LEGAL LIMITS, on LEGAL DRUGS. Still, I would have a positive test.
This is what the tests have shown.
I know it's unlikely, but it seems like it would hush some of the gossip & speculation if results were released?
Out of curiousity, how do you feel about that? |
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10D Crack Champion
| Wonder if they would ever test the contestants? |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-02 12:08 PM I will, again, say no problems have been found when tested. A positive test does not mean a problem.
They tested for everything...legal drugs, illegal drugs or narcotics.
The people accused of winning due to doping, were not when tested, and they are still winning.
Had I been tested, my horse would have tested positive, but NOT OVER THE LEGAL LIMITS, on LEGAL DRUGS. Still, I would have a positive test.
This is what the tests have shown.
When you say "no problems have been found" are you speaking with authority? Is that from the WPRA? Or because you have not heard of any? I'm not sure I understand your post. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just curious what your statment is based on. If your do know, for sure, do you know if they are testing at the NFR, and if not why not?
I have 'heard' of some big names being accused of druging their horses. I would have no idea (and probably would not pay attention) if it was true, or jealousy or just whinners that got out run. But I can say several of the names I heard are Not still running, and Not still winning, so that part of the statement isn't really accurate. I would have no idea if the were ever tested because it's not published.
But I can say the LEGAL LIMITS ON LEGAL DRUGS can test all over the place under certain circumstances. Like not drinking enough water (as some horses on the raod), not technically dehydrated but lower water intake can of set half life by a lot.
But my original post was just asking and I'm still curious. |
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| ksjackofalltrades - 2013-12-02 11:13 AM They aren't going to tell the public if someone tested bad. No way. I don't think that not hearing about someone testing for a banned subject proves there hasn't been any bad tests because you would never hear about it because of legal ramifications.
Exactly.
The results are private.
Fines vary depending on class of drug. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | casualdust07 - 2013-12-02 12:58 PM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-02 9:41 AM It seems to me that certain "drugs" such as Legend and Adequan shouldn't be banned. Neither should NSAIDS like Bute or Banamine. In fact, I'm not sure certain bronchodilators should be banned, provided a vet is willing to provide documentation that a horse has reactive airway disease. Clearly, certain stimulants and anabolics have no place, though. Those drugs are not banned. I am not sure about the regulations with adequan and legend, but the NSAIDs are not banned. You have to follow rules when administering them- you have to give the label dose of the drug, and you can't give multiple types of NSAIDs at the same time. I'm on the fence with bronchodilators. I know several people who were giving clenbuterol without a diagnosis and just did it because they fire harder. We've had to use it on horses diagnosed with cicatrix, even though I am not 100% how much its actually doing since the cicatrix is on their pharynx…we've also used it on bleeders every once in a while.. Ventipulmin is a beta agonist, which I know you know all that. So with horses not only is it increasing their airways, it's also ramping up their sympathetic tone- increasing heart rate, contractility,conduction velocity, skeletal muscle strength, skeletal muscle vasodilation, etc. Just a fun side note- the reason why horses sweat when given ventipulmin is because they are adrenergic sweaters.
I appreciate your response. In the case of Adequan and Legend, I think it came up because I was using them as an example of what "could" be called a Performance Enhancing Drug, only because it does enhance the run of a horse that is in need of that particular treatment. Same for hock injections.
I agree with you totally on the statement about NSAIDS, and I'm kind of the same way on the brondhodilators. We have used Ventipulman and other than not coughing did not see any sweating, or jitters or any extra speed, just a more comfortable horse that didn't bleed. So are Ventipulmin and Clenbuterol the same thing? Somehow I thought Ventipulmin was clenbuterol but I don't know if I heard that or read it or made it up in my own little mind. I would struggle using Ventipulman regularly just because of the price. That's probably true for all those medications though, legal or illegal, banned or not banned.
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | barrelracinbroke - 2013-12-02 10:31 PM ksjackofalltrades - 2013-12-02 11:13 AM They aren't going to tell the public if someone tested bad. No way. I don't think that not hearing about someone testing for a banned subject proves there hasn't been any bad tests because you would never hear about it because of legal ramifications. Exactly.
The results are private.
Fines vary depending on class of drug.
But Why? They are published on race horse trainers, and owners. They are published on Baseball players, football players and every sport I can think of.
Sorry, I posted a bunch all at once. Been gone most of the day and heading to bed. Thanks for the responses, but I guess we still don't know if they are testing. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I am just guessing here, but I think if barrel racing was a sport where there was a LOT of money to be won and often, drug testing would be taken more seriously. There just aren't very many people who make a whole lot of money even if they do well. Sure, some do OK and a few even do real well, but I think someone touched on the cost of a widespread drug testing program, and they made a valid point. Realistically, if there is going to be drug testing, a lot of careful planning has to go into the implementation, starting with the determination of what constitutes a PED. Then a decision would have to be made about the policy. How many would be tested? Urine versus blood? Confirmatory testing? Costs and how they can be offest? Consequences of a violation? I think something should be done, but it's no easy task, that's for sure. We are talking about a sport where probably close to 99% of contestants lose money in the long run. Now if there was an "upper eschelon" where the very top competitors made 6-7 figures, then there would be more pressure to do drug testing. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if at least half the ladies at the NFR actually lost money getting there. |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| Swannranch - 2013-12-02 7:43 PM barrelracinbroke - 2013-12-02 10:31 PM ksjackofalltrades - 2013-12-02 11:13 AM They aren't going to tell the public if someone tested bad. No way. I don't think that not hearing about someone testing for a banned subject proves there hasn't been any bad tests because you would never hear about it because of legal ramifications. Exactly.
The results are private.
Fines vary depending on class of drug.
Sorry, I posted a bunch all at once. Been gone most of the day and heading to bed. Thanks for the responses, but I guess we still don't know if they are testing.
A professional football, baseball, type of athlete is employed on a contractual type of basis. They're paid whether they play or not for the number of years their contract is in effect. It can also be part of their contract that certain drugs are banned. Barrel racers are not under contractual employment by the WPRA (but some sponsors do have conduct as a cause for termination). It is a private choice to compete under their rules as they apply if you choose to make a living that way. Their rules, as of right now, are that the results are kept private and fines are imposed as written. That's going to take a long time and a lot of money to change if it ever does (meaning change to make them public). It is highly doubtful.
As far as race horses, I have no idea. I can't answer that. Sorry. Hope that helped a little?
Edited by barrelracinbroke 2013-12-02 10:51 PM
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| And no, it hasn't been "announced" as to whether or not there will be testing. 
But, I'm sure the world will know the first night if it does happen. Cuz someone's Cousin's, Aunt's, Sister's, Best Friend Leo told Suzy who said she saw it happen. LOL. :) |
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 Saint Stacey
| Does anyone honestly believe the drug testing policy was put into place to catch people using high levels of bute and banimine? Because if so... I have a gold brick I would like to sell you.
I also find it ironic that so many hold rodeo girls in such high regards that they swear up and down those girls would NEVER do anything wrong. I have a gold brick to sell you too, btw.
I know girls that have no problem stacking drugs for just about every run. I also know those that don't have a problem with using the knockoff Redbull in high doses because of the steroidal type properties. That's exactly why race horse people started using it when Winstral and Equipose got banned.
Am I saying all the girls are druggging their horses? No. But I am realistic enough to have seen that a lot of these girls don't deserve to be put on a pedestal because they win. Winning does not make a person a Class Act. Intregrity is what makes a person classy and a lot of girls are severly lacking that. JMHO. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I wonder if there is actual proof or data out there somewhere that proves which of these so-called PEDs actually "enhance" performance.
I'd love to see some real data. Take EPO for instance. If a quarterhorse has a normal hematocrit of 40% (range 38-47%) then will raising the hematocrit to 45-50% actually make any significant difference when you are talking about a 16 second sprint. I bet that would be a very difficult thing to prove, especially when you are talking about a race where 0.1 - 0.2 seconds would be a significant improvement. I can see it when you are talking about thoroughbred racing, but what about a quarterhorse in a sprint? If a person wanted to "naturally" increase endogenous EPO and thus increase oxygen carrying capacity, then keeping them at higher altitudes (say in Colorado, for instance) can achieve the same effect. Do quarterhorses raised at higher altitudes really perform measurably better in a sprint? |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-03 7:51 AM I wonder if there is actual proof or data out there somewhere that proves which of these so-called PEDs actually "enhance" performance.
I'd love to see some real data. Take EPO for instance. If a quarterhorse has a normal hematocrit of 40% (range 38-47%) then will raising the hematocrit to 45-50% actually make any significant difference when you are talking about a 16 second sprint. I bet that would be a very difficult thing to prove, especially when you are talking about a race where 0.1 - 0.2 seconds would be a significant improvement. I can see it when you are talking about thoroughbred racing, but what about a quarterhorse in a sprint? If a person wanted to "naturally" increase endogenous EPO and thus increase oxygen carrying capacity, then keeping them at higher altitudes (say in Colorado, for instance) can achieve the same effect. Do quarterhorses raised at higher altitudes really perform measurably better in a sprint?
Quarter horse racing has gotten really dirty over the last 6-8 years. Not that drugs on the track haven't always been a problem, but with the influx of cartel money it's gotten insane. It ABSOLUTELY makes a difference. Now that the racing commissions have a test for 'frog juice' or dermorphine (sp?) they've simply moved onto the next thing. I don't know the name of it, but it's bad. The frog juice was compared to being 40 times stronger than morphine and it made horses feel 10 feet tall and bulletproof. It also causes heart issues and there were several unexplained deaths.
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | barrelracinbroke - 2013-12-02 10:49 PM Swannranch - 2013-12-02 7:43 PM barrelracinbroke - 2013-12-02 10:31 PM ksjackofalltrades - 2013-12-02 11:13 AM They aren't going to tell the public if someone tested bad. No way. I don't think that not hearing about someone testing for a banned subject proves there hasn't been any bad tests because you would never hear about it because of legal ramifications. Exactly.
The results are private.
Fines vary depending on class of drug.
Sorry, I posted a bunch all at once. Been gone most of the day and heading to bed. Thanks for the responses, but I guess we still don't know if they are testing.
A professional football, baseball, type of athlete is employed on a contractual type of basis. They're paid whether they play or not for the number of years their contract is in effect. It can also be part of their contract that certain drugs are banned. Barrel racers are not under contractual employment by the WPRA (but some sponsors do have conduct as a cause for termination). It is a private choice to compete under their rules as they apply if you choose to make a living that way. Their rules, as of right now, are that the results are kept private and fines are imposed as written. That's going to take a long time and a lot of money to change if it ever does (meaning change to make them public). It is highly doubtful.
As far as race horses, I have no idea. I can't answer that. Sorry. Hope that helped a little?
The answer as to race horses = PARIMUTUAL BETTING.
It becomes a whole different game when the public becomes part of the equation. Potential bettors have a right to access (should they so choose) all relevent information before placing wagers. |
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Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | dme0324 - 2013-12-02 5:41 PMI know it's unlikely, but it seems like it would hush some of the gossip & speculation if results were released?
Out of curiousity, how do you feel about that?
I wish they would/could release the results. That way everyone who thinks/believes they are being beaten by a needle would see the proof that they are not. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| casualdust07 - 2013-12-02 9:58 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-02 9:41 AM
It seems to me that certain "drugs" such as Legend and Adequan shouldn't be banned. Neither should NSAIDS like Bute or Banamine. In fact, I'm not sure certain bronchodilators should be banned, provided a vet is willing to provide documentation that a horse has reactive airway disease. Clearly, certain stimulants and anabolics have no place, though.
Those drugs are not banned. I am not sure about the regulations with adequan and legend, but the NSAIDs are not banned. You have to follow rules when administering them- you have to give the label dose of the drug, and you can't give multiple types of NSAIDs at the same time.
I'm on the fence with bronchodilators. I know several people who were giving clenbuterol without a diagnosis and just did it because they fire harder. We've had to use it on horses diagnosed with cicatrix, even though I am not 100% how much its actually doing since the cicatrix is on their pharynx…we've also used it on bleeders every once in a while..
Ventipulmin is a beta agonist, which I know you know all that. So with horses not only is it increasing their airways, it's also ramping up their sympathetic tone- increasing heart rate, contractility,conduction velocity, skeletal muscle strength, skeletal muscle vasodilation, etc.
Just a fun side note- the reason why horses sweat when given ventipulmin is because they are adrenergic sweaters.
My horse has severe dust allergies and I use ventipulmin every run. He feels like he is running the same as usual but does clock half second faster. I guess the dust allergy is a blessing! LOL |
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Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | Swannranch - 2013-12-02 9:16 PMWhen you say "no problems have been found" are you speaking with authority? Is that from the WPRA? Or because you have not heard of any? I'm not sure I understand your post. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just curious what your statment is based on. If your do know, for sure, do you know if they are testing at the NFR, and if not why not?
I have 'heard' of some big names being accused of druging their horses. I would have no idea (and probably would not pay attention) if it was true, or jealousy or just whinners that got out run. But I can say several of the names I heard are Not still running, and Not still winning, so that part of the statement isn't really accurate. I would have no idea if the were ever tested because it's not published.
But I can say the LEGAL LIMITS ON LEGAL DRUGS can test all over the place under certain circumstances. Like not drinking enough water (as some horses on the raod), not technically dehydrated but lower water intake can of set half life by a lot.
But my original post was just asking and I'm still curious.
I have no authority, but I know who to ask and am involved. You don't have to believe me.
Information always gets out, especially with social media.
Examples---
When Sherry got tested at Reno, the word was spread in about 3 minutes. What was mentioned as an issue was exactly what happened. She needed to get out of Reno and on to the next place right then. They pulled the blood at the arena with people watching. Not that she had anything to hide, but people knew right then and there.
When they tested at Calgary, word was going around that one girl switched horses because of the testing. That was wrong because she rode that same horse through all rounds in the pool.
At another rodeo a girl got picked and she said she would test positive. I believe that she had used Ventipulmin.
If there had been any tests positive for narcotics, people would know. |
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Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | FLITASTIC - 2013-12-03 8:37 AM casualdust07 - 2013-12-02 9:58 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-02 9:41 AM It seems to me that certain "drugs" such as Legend and Adequan shouldn't be banned. Neither should NSAIDS like Bute or Banamine. In fact, I'm not sure certain bronchodilators should be banned, provided a vet is willing to provide documentation that a horse has reactive airway disease. Clearly, certain stimulants and anabolics have no place, though. Those drugs are not banned. I am not sure about the regulations with adequan and legend, but the NSAIDs are not banned. You have to follow rules when administering them- you have to give the label dose of the drug, and you can't give multiple types of NSAIDs at the same time. I'm on the fence with bronchodilators. I know several people who were giving clenbuterol without a diagnosis and just did it because they fire harder. We've had to use it on horses diagnosed with cicatrix, even though I am not 100% how much its actually doing since the cicatrix is on their pharynx…we've also used it on bleeders every once in a while.. Ventipulmin is a beta agonist, which I know you know all that. So with horses not only is it increasing their airways, it's also ramping up their sympathetic tone- increasing heart rate, contractility,conduction velocity, skeletal muscle strength, skeletal muscle vasodilation, etc. Just a fun side note- the reason why horses sweat when given ventipulmin is because they are adrenergic sweaters. My horse has severe dust allergies and I use ventipulmin every run. He feels like he is running the same as usual but does clock half second faster. I guess the dust allergy is a blessing! LOL
He's running 1/2 second faster because he can BREATHE!!! It's not making him run faster than God made him capable of running. He is meeting his potential. Steroids will get an animal/person to the very top they can achieve. You can't make an animal/person faster than they were capable.
When horses on the track were all on steroids, there was still only one winner.
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Elite Veteran
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Location: CA | My guess is they will be testing at the NFR (big $$$$)... Also, at the reg rodeos I would think a blood draw would need to go to the lab and NO you wouldn't know the results right away, so if they stick them right there arena side, I would assume/guess the rider (WPRA member would get a notice in the mail if the horse tested positive or not).. So ,this is why the general public would not know if they were testing positve or not. |
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Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | If you want to know right now, call Carolyn Vietor and ask her. No reason for her to not tell you. It won't be a secret come Thursday. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1114
Location: CA | Because I dont know this part, are the drug screens considered " Randoms"? (per the rule book or whatever) If this is the case then they are not going to say if and when they will do drug testing, NFR included. That is like employers that do drug screens (randoms specifically), they dont prewarn you that day or week prior too that they will be drug testing next week. Also, another question... has the PRCA impemented drug testing for horses? |
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Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | allaboutme - 2013-12-03 2:46 PM Because I dont know this part, are the drug screens considered " Randoms"? (per the rule book or whatever) If this is the case then they are not going to say if and when they will do drug testing, NFR included. That is like employers that do drug screens (randoms specifically), they dont prewarn you that day or week prior too that they will be drug testing next week. Also, another question... has the PRCA impemented drug testing for horses?
~~doglady
Posted 2013-12-02 1:36 PM (#6879350 - in reply to #6878622)
Subject: RE: Drug testing at the NFR? Quote Reply Alert
The only year they drug tested at the nfr was l989 and they did the winner and a random draw. They followed us out of the alley and someone stayed with you until you cooled your horse out. They took urine and then we went to the drug tent and they took blood. My horse was the random draw the first go and the winner the 2nd so he got tested twice. THey took 40ccs of blood which I thought was a lot.
This only lasted for maybe 5 go rounds but maybe only four I can't remember until it was stopped because of a lawsuit. Sherry Cervi's grey horse Troubles was not having any part of the blood being drawn and nearly tore the tent apart. It was endangering him and everyone around him so that was the main reason it was stopped. Someone or some horse was going to get hurt. They didn't find anything illegal then either but of course that was a long time ago and I don't think we had that many drugs we knew about or at least I didn't! haha
Edited by ozcancrasher13 2013-12-03 3:13 PM
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-03 9:39 AM
FLITASTIC - 2013-12-03 8:37 AM casualdust07 - 2013-12-02 9:58 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-02 9:41 AM It seems to me that certain "drugs" such as Legend and Adequan shouldn't be banned. Neither should NSAIDS like Bute or Banamine. In fact, I'm not sure certain bronchodilators should be banned, provided a vet is willing to provide documentation that a horse has reactive airway disease. Clearly, certain stimulants and anabolics have no place, though. Those drugs are not banned. I am not sure about the regulations with adequan and legend, but the NSAIDs are not banned. You have to follow rules when administering them- you have to give the label dose of the drug, and you can't give multiple types of NSAIDs at the same time. I'm on the fence with bronchodilators. I know several people who were giving clenbuterol without a diagnosis and just did it because they fire harder. We've had to use it on horses diagnosed with cicatrix, even though I am not 100% how much its actually doing since the cicatrix is on their pharynx…we've also used it on bleeders every once in a while.. Ventipulmin is a beta agonist, which I know you know all that. So with horses not only is it increasing their airways, it's also ramping up their sympathetic tone- increasing heart rate, contractility,conduction velocity, skeletal muscle strength, skeletal muscle vasodilation, etc. Just a fun side note- the reason why horses sweat when given ventipulmin is because they are adrenergic sweaters. My horse has severe dust allergies and I use ventipulmin every run. He feels like he is running the same as usual but does clock half second faster. I guess the dust allergy is a blessing! LOL
When horses on the track were all on steroids, there was still only one winner.
I am not saying ventipulmin is bad or whatever. we have a horse who runs on it all summer. I DO believe that steroids and other drugs can take your horse to a higher level than they are naturally predisposed to.
What I am actually more concerned with are the potential side effects of people who administer medications to horses without knowing. The whole thing about NSAIDs in my mind is less about trying to knock tenths off, and more about realizing the risk of damaging the horse's body by overloading them on NSAIDs. I've seen it time and time again where people give bute or previcox all weekend, slather surpass on a bunch of joints, and for good measure give a shot of banamine or dex ( I know Dex is not an NSAID) before a run. There is a *reason* why USEF says to pick one and follow the instructions.
My concern about clenbuterol is that many times people don't realize that you can cause your horse's heart to race when you give it. Watch how much you are supposed to give and follow the instructions. I love ventipulmin and living in southeast texas it has saved many of my horses when the weather makes it hard on them to breathe. Not to mention it helps them sweat.
I'm all for drug testing in the WPRA. they don't care about the banamine or the lasix (which you can give). I do know there are people out there running on the needle and giving things that have no place in a horse. Unfortunate, but they didn't just pull this idea out of thin air.
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Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | I'm not saying no one has done anything illegal ever.
People have watched someone block their horse's foot at a rodeo. I am just tired of it because, no matter what anyone says, there were certain people targeted. Those people aren't winning because they are doping. They are winning because of ability and horsepower. And the comments that I've heard..."I won't buy my card because I won't give my horse what those other people are giving to win." I can guarantee my friends who have made the NFR are not doping their horses.
If people were doing such bad things to these horses, they wouldn't perform for years and years at that level.
Also, because people seem to think that it is horrible if one of these wpra girls uses something like ventipulmin or stack bute and banamine, even before the drug policy, yet how many people on this website talk about how much they use ventipulmin right now. My vet has advised me to stack to help with pain from an abscess.
I don't have an issue with the policy and being inforced, I just am tired of people thinking many/most who win in rodeo are dope fiends.
Edited by ozcancrasher13 2013-12-03 3:48 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| doglady - 2013-12-02 11:36 AM The only year they drug tested at the nfr was l989 and they did the winner and a random draw. They followed us out of the alley and someone stayed with you until you cooled your horse out. They took urine and then we went to the drug tent and they took blood. My horse was the random draw the first go and the winner the 2nd so he got tested twice. THey took 40ccs of blood which I thought was a lot.
This only lasted for maybe 5 go rounds but maybe only four I can't remember until it was stopped because of a lawsuit. Sherry Cervi's grey horse Troubles was not having any part of the blood being drawn and nearly tore the tent apart. It was endangering him and everyone around him so that was the main reason it was stopped. Someone or some horse was going to get hurt. They didn't find anything illegal then either but of course that was a long time ago and I don't think we had that many drugs we knew about or at least I didn't! haha
OT, but who ran Troubles in 1989? Sherry didn't take him until 1994. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| SKM - 2013-12-03 4:28 AM Does anyone honestly believe the drug testing policy was put into place to catch people using high levels of bute and banimine? Because if so... I have a gold brick I would like to sell you.
I also find it ironic that so many hold rodeo girls in such high regards that they swear up and down those girls would NEVER do anything wrong. I have a gold brick to sell you too, btw.
I know girls that have no problem stacking drugs for just about every run. I also know those that don't have a problem with using the knockoff Redbull in high doses because of the steroidal type properties. That's exactly why race horse people started using it when Winstral and Equipose got banned.
Am I saying all the girls are druggging their horses? No. But I am realistic enough to have seen that a lot of these girls don't deserve to be put on a pedestal because they win. Winning does not make a person a Class Act. Intregrity is what makes a person classy and a lot of girls are severly lacking that. JMHO.
Agreed. Not sure why so many think that winning makes people a "class act". I have found the opposite to be true in many cases from personal experience. A lot of people I read about in magazines and looked up to have not the greatest morals or personalities. But on the flip side there are those who are just what you read about. |
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Mrs. Troy
Location: western Nebraska | 3 To Go - 2013-12-03 4:11 PM
doglady - 2013-12-02 11:36 AM The only year they drug tested at the nfr was l989 and they did the winner and a random draw. They followed us out of the alley and someone stayed with you until you cooled your horse out. They took urine and then we went to the drug tent and they took blood. My horse was the random draw the first go and the winner the 2nd so he got tested twice. THey took 40ccs of blood which I thought was a lot.
This only lasted for maybe 5 go rounds but maybe only four I can't remember until it was stopped because of a lawsuit. Sherry Cervi's grey horse Troubles was not having any part of the blood being drawn and nearly tore the tent apart. It was endangering him and everyone around him so that was the main reason it was stopped. Someone or some horse was going to get hurt. They didn't find anything illegal then either but of course that was a long time ago and I don't think we had that many drugs we knew about or at least I didn't! haha
OT, but who ran Troubles in 1989? Sherry didn't take him until 1994.
Well, I guess it must be old age because I thought it was Troubles. I guess not but that was the year they tested because in l992 the last time I went they didn't test. I sure could have sworn it was Troubles but I guess not. Now I am going to have to go watch the tape and see what horse it was. Thanks for setting me straight.
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Mrs. Troy
Location: western Nebraska | ok, I am wrong. It wasn't Troubles and Sherry Cervi that had the trouble in the drug testing tent. I am going to go through my tapes and figure it out. I am very sorry that I gave out the wrong information. I will get it right though.
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| doglady - 2013-12-03 5:17 PM
ok, I am wrong. It wasn't Troubles and Sherry Cervi that had the trouble in the drug testing tent. I am going to go through my tapes and figure it out. I am very sorry that I gave out the wrong information. I will get it right though.
 We forgive you doglady!!!! It is an interesting aspect of it though and if you have a little shister to deal with. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-03 10:30 AM Swannranch - 2013-12-02 9:16 PMWhen you say "no problems have been found" are you speaking with authority? Is that from the WPRA? Or because you have not heard of any? I'm not sure I understand your post. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just curious what your statment is based on. If your do know, for sure, do you know if they are testing at the NFR, and if not why not?
I have 'heard' of some big names being accused of druging their horses. I would have no idea (and probably would not pay attention) if it was true, or jealousy or just whinners that got out run. But I can say several of the names I heard are Not still running, and Not still winning, so that part of the statement isn't really accurate. I would have no idea if the were ever tested because it's not published.
But I can say the LEGAL LIMITS ON LEGAL DRUGS can test all over the place under certain circumstances. Like not drinking enough water (as some horses on the raod), not technically dehydrated but lower water intake can of set half life by a lot.
But my original post was just asking and I'm still curious. I have no authority, but I know who to ask and am involved. You don't have to believe me. Information always gets out, especially with social media. Examples--- When Sherry got tested at Reno, the word was spread in about 3 minutes. What was mentioned as an issue was exactly what happened. She needed to get out of Reno and on to the next place right then. They pulled the blood at the arena with people watching. Not that she had anything to hide, but people knew right then and there. When they tested at Calgary, word was going around that one girl switched horses because of the testing. That was wrong because she rode that same horse through all rounds in the pool. At another rodeo a girl got picked and she said she would test positive. I believe that she had used Ventipulmin. If there had been any tests positive for narcotics, people would know.
More questions for me...what is "stacking?" Is that giving like bute and banamine at the same time? I was told by a vet to do that for a hoof injury, but we wern't running.
I like the conversation though. I like the information and the differing points of view. I wish it could be discussed even more. I still think the tests and results, if positive for illegal, or banned, should be made public.
I really didn't mean to offend you so I hope I didn't. That's the problem with secret information. . .people know things, or think they do and information and truth become cloudy.
Thank you for answering the questions you could and I look forwardd to the NFR, with our with out testing!!!
added question, what does it mean to "block a horses foot at a rodeo"? Is that like a nerve block like I've heard of for Navicular horses? Or something else? That's a new one for me.
Edited by Swannranch 2013-12-03 6:58 PM
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Location: Down South Mississippi | Yes blocking a foot would be similar to nerving. It can be done for a temporary amount of time. It can last a day or two up to a couple wks. The point being so the horse would not be able to feel pain in their foot. |
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Talent Agent
Location: OK panhandle | they did attempt drug testing one of the years Sherry ran Troubles and lawsuit was threatened because of how horrible Troubles was about the tests, I think they wanted their vet to do it but that was long time ago so memory may be foggy, if I'm wrong I apologize, but whatever year that was was last time it was attempted I believe. My guess is they will do it this year at NFR and if they do like they've done at past rodeos it's random, whatever number comes up, my mom got tested at Salinas. |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| Swannranch - 2013-12-03 4:52 PM ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-03 10:30 AM Swannranch - 2013-12-02 9:16 PMWhen you say "no problems have been found" are you speaking with authority? Is that from the WPRA? Or because you have not heard of any? I'm not sure I understand your post. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just curious what your statment is based on. If your do know, for sure, do you know if they are testing at the NFR, and if not why not?
I have 'heard' of some big names being accused of druging their horses. I would have no idea (and probably would not pay attention) if it was true, or jealousy or just whinners that got out run. But I can say several of the names I heard are Not still running, and Not still winning, so that part of the statement isn't really accurate. I would have no idea if the were ever tested because it's not published.
But I can say the LEGAL LIMITS ON LEGAL DRUGS can test all over the place under certain circumstances. Like not drinking enough water (as some horses on the raod), not technically dehydrated but lower water intake can of set half life by a lot.
But my original post was just asking and I'm still curious. I have no authority, but I know who to ask and am involved. You don't have to believe me.
Information always gets out, especially with social media.
Examples---
When Sherry got tested at Reno, the word was spread in about 3 minutes. What was mentioned as an issue was exactly what happened. She needed to get out of Reno and on to the next place right then. They pulled the blood at the arena with people watching. Not that she had anything to hide, but people knew right then and there.
When they tested at Calgary, word was going around that one girl switched horses because of the testing. That was wrong because she rode that same horse through all rounds in the pool.
At another rodeo a girl got picked and she said she would test positive. I believe that she had used Ventipulmin.
If there had been any tests positive for narcotics, people would know.
More questions for me...what is "stacking?" Is that giving like bute and banamine at the same time? I was told by a vet to do that for a hoof injury, but we wern't running.
I like the conversation though. I like the information and the differing points of view. I wish it could be discussed even more. I still think the tests and results, if positive for illegal, or banned, should be made public.
I really didn't mean to offend you so I hope I didn't. That's the problem with secret information. . .people know things, or think they do and information and truth become cloudy.
Thank you for answering the questions you could and I look forwardd to the NFR, with our with out testing!!!
added question, what does it mean to "block a horses foot at a rodeo"? Is that like a nerve block like I've heard of for Navicular horses? Or something else? That's a new one for me.
Stacking is using more than one NSAID at once (yes, like bute and banamine as was prescribed by your vet).
Blocking is deadening the nerves to a particular area of the horse. It is temporary. Like they do when they block your horse during a veterinary exam to assist in finding lameness issues.
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-03 3:45 PM
I'm not saying no one has done anything illegal ever.
People have watched someone block their horse's foot at a rodeo. I am just tired of it because, no matter what anyone says, there were certain people targeted. Those people aren't winning because they are doping. They are winning because of ability and horsepower. And the comments that I've heard..."I won't buy my card because I won't give my horse what those other people are giving to win." I can guarantee my friends who have made the NFR are not doping their horses.
If people were doing such bad things to these horses, they wouldn't perform for years and years at that level.
Also, because people seem to think that it is horrible if one of these wpra girls uses something like ventipulmin or stack bute and banamine, even before the drug policy, yet how many people on this website talk about how much they use ventipulmin right now. My vet has advised me to stack to help with pain from an abscess.
I don't have an issue with the policy and being inforced, I just am tired of people thinking many/most who win in rodeo are dope fiends.
This is exactly the point I keep trying to make. Horses are not going to be able to perform for years, when you see girls being able to run the same horse year after year....then they must be doing something right!!! There is no way they are doping them to run faster, those horses are getting the best care possible.
I think the futurities would be a great place to test. Very different deal. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | MS2011 - 2013-12-03 10:41 PM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-03 3:45 PM
I'm not saying no one has done anything illegal ever.
People have watched someone block their horse's foot at a rodeo. I am just tired of it because, no matter what anyone says, there were certain people targeted. Those people aren't winning because they are doping. They are winning because of ability and horsepower. And the comments that I've heard..."I won't buy my card because I won't give my horse what those other people are giving to win." I can guarantee my friends who have made the NFR are not doping their horses.
If people were doing such bad things to these horses, they wouldn't perform for years and years at that level.
Also, because people seem to think that it is horrible if one of these wpra girls uses something like ventipulmin or stack bute and banamine, even before the drug policy, yet how many people on this website talk about how much they use ventipulmin right now. My vet has advised me to stack to help with pain from an abscess.
I don't have an issue with the policy and being inforced, I just am tired of people thinking many/most who win in rodeo are dope fiends.
This is exactly the point I keep trying to make. Horses are not going to be able to perform for years, when you see girls being able to run the same horse year after year....then they must be doing something right!!! There is no way they are doping them to run faster, those horses are getting the best care possible.
I think the futurities would be a great place to test. Very different deal.
This actually reminds me of a point that I had thought of earlier today.
Does anyone think they are planning to test at The American? |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | WrapSnap - 2013-12-03 10:48 PM MS2011 - 2013-12-03 10:41 PM ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-03 3:45 PM I'm not saying no one has done anything illegal ever.
People have watched someone block their horse's foot at a rodeo. I am just tired of it because, no matter what anyone says, there were certain people targeted. Those people aren't winning because they are doping. They are winning because of ability and horsepower. And the comments that I've heard..."I won't buy my card because I won't give my horse what those other people are giving to win." I can guarantee my friends who have made the NFR are not doping their horses.
If people were doing such bad things to these horses, they wouldn't perform for years and years at that level.
Also, because people seem to think that it is horrible if one of these wpra girls uses something like ventipulmin or stack bute and banamine, even before the drug policy, yet how many people on this website talk about how much they use ventipulmin right now. My vet has advised me to stack to help with pain from an abscess.
I don't have an issue with the policy and being inforced, I just am tired of people thinking many/most who win in rodeo are dope fiends. This is exactly the point I keep trying to make. Horses are not going to be able to perform for years, when you see girls being able to run the same horse year after year....then they must be doing something right!!! There is no way they are doping them to run faster, those horses are getting the best care possible. I think the futurities would be a great place to test. Very different deal. This actually reminds me of a point that I had thought of earlier today. Does anyone think they are planning to test at The American?
Nope.
That would be another great venue to test.....just because there is so much on the line.
Which world do you think does more of the 'bad' illegal stuff, futurities or rodeos? |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | MS2011 - 2013-12-03 11:09 PM
WrapSnap - 2013-12-03 10:48 PM MS2011 - 2013-12-03 10:41 PM ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-03 3:45 PM I'm not saying no one has done anything illegal ever.
People have watched someone block their horse's foot at a rodeo. I am just tired of it because, no matter what anyone says, there were certain people targeted. Those people aren't winning because they are doping. They are winning because of ability and horsepower. And the comments that I've heard..."I won't buy my card because I won't give my horse what those other people are giving to win." I can guarantee my friends who have made the NFR are not doping their horses.
If people were doing such bad things to these horses, they wouldn't perform for years and years at that level.
Also, because people seem to think that it is horrible if one of these wpra girls uses something like ventipulmin or stack bute and banamine, even before the drug policy, yet how many people on this website talk about how much they use ventipulmin right now. My vet has advised me to stack to help with pain from an abscess.
I don't have an issue with the policy and being inforced, I just am tired of people thinking many/most who win in rodeo are dope fiends. This is exactly the point I keep trying to make. Horses are not going to be able to perform for years, when you see girls being able to run the same horse year after year....then they must be doing something right!!! There is no way they are doping them to run faster, those horses are getting the best care possible. I think the futurities would be a great place to test. Very different deal. This actually reminds me of a point that I had thought of earlier today. Does anyone think they are planning to test at The American?
That would be another great venue to test.....just because there is so much on the line.
Which world do you think does more of the 'bad' illegal stuff, futurities or rodeos?
Honestly, I think that if you showed up at enough big futurities, you'd find that most of the rodeo girls can hold their own when it comes to the pharmaceuticals... |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | I'm not saying that they aren't using anything....but the things that I know go on at the racetrack, a rodeo horse isn't going to hold together for years. Their body can't take that abuse. You could very easily get by with it on a futurity on with a limited number of runs for a year. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1114
Location: CA | On a side note..... I LOVED that horse Troubles... That was one of the fastest grey horses I have ever seen, holy moly!!! Well I loved Rachel M's grey horse Paige too :-) SWOON!! Sorry I turned this thread into a grey horse thread... LOL |
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Drug testing at the NFR?