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| I am just curious, from experience, are horses with a narrow chest able to excel in barrel racing? I am looking at a 4 yr old gelding prospect who is narrow in the chest and is a bit on the lanky side. I have ridden him and like everything else about him, except the width of his chest. He has really good feet, big bone, and I don't see other conformation flaws that I don't like, and he is very smart and people-friendly. From what I can tell he is light on his feet and has a long stride. Anyone have a horse with a narrow chest? Does it have to do with the age at which they are cut and not able to develop on geldings? |
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 Works Hard For The Money
Posts: 4469
Location: Memphis, TN | My guy was really lanky until around 6 years old. He shot up in height early and took a while to grow "out". He's thick as a tank now. He was cut right after he turned two years old. Some horses are just really slow to mature. At 4 he could still have quite a bit of filling out to do. |
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 Too Skinny
Posts: 8009
 
Location: LA Lower Alabama | He is only four so he may widen out. Duke is tall and stingray is short yet both have made it to the NFR |
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| As long as his front legs are not coming out of the same hole in his chest .... a narrow chested horse is more athletic than the old fashioned bulldog quarterhorses with very wide chests between the front legs.
Narrow chested horses can cross over their legs when side passing where the wider chested horses have difficulty and you get a hop in the front end rather than a smooth crossover.
A barrel horse uses the side pass // two tracking routine when turning a barrel ... they will not cross their legs due to speed but that inside front leg reaches towards the barrel to turn and the outside leg follows ... which makes the turn faster and more efficient.
Doc Bar changed the conformation of the old stand up body blocking style of bulldog cutters with wide front ends . His TB lines narrowed the chest, gave them a longer neck for balance so they could get down in front of a cow and flatter muscles that allowed them to move side ways quicker and more fluid.
This can be said for the horses that have barrel horse conformations rather than your ranch style/roping horse conformations.
LIGHTNING BAR is in the pedigrees of both Doc Bar and multiple times with even more 3Bar saturation with FRENCHMANS GUY. LIGHTNING BAR breeding has given both sires the versatility you see in their foals !!
DOC BAR
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/doc+bar
FRENCHMANS GUY
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/frenchmans+guy
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Veteran
Posts: 256
| barrelracin85 - 2013-12-09 10:27 AM
My guy was really lanky until around 6 years old. He shot up in height early and took a while to grow "out". He's thick as a tank now. He was cut right after he turned two years old. Some horses are just really slow to mature. At 4 he could still have quite a bit of filling out to do.
This might be the case, this gelding is tall, maybe the rest of him is trying to catch up. Thanks for the input. |
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Veteran
Posts: 256
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-12-09 10:38 AM
As long as his front legs are not coming out of the same hole in his chest .... a narrow chested horse is more athletic than the old fashioned bulldog quarterhorses with very wide chests between the front legs.
Narrow chested horses can cross over their legs when side passing where the wider chested horses have difficulty and you get a hop in the front end rather than a smooth crossover.
A barrel horse uses the side pass // two tracking routine when turning a barrel ... they will not cross their legs due to speed but that inside front leg reaches towards the barrel to turn and the outside leg follows ... which makes the turn faster and more efficient.
Doc Bar changed the conformation of the old stand up body blocking style of bulldog cutters with wide front ends . His TB lines narrowed the chest, gave them a longer neck for balance so they could get down in front of a cow and flatter muscles that allowed them to move side ways quicker and more fluid.
This can be said for the horses that have barrel horse conformations rather than your ranch style/roping horse conformations.
LIGHTNING BAR is in the pedigrees of both Doc Bar and multiple times with even more 3Bar saturation with FRENCHMANS GUY. LIGHTNING BAR breeding has given both sires the versatility you see in their foals !!
DOC BAR
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/doc+bar
FRENCHMANS GUY
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/frenchmans+guy
Thanks for the information, I haven't heard that before, but it makes sense to me (about the side pass). I have done some small drills with this gelding and SMOOTH describes his footwork perfectly. And he also has the long neck in him, I have had people tell me that horses with long necks make good barrel horses, although I don't know the reasoning behind it. Anyone know why they say this? I would love to learn more about good conformation in barrel horses. |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
| one of the most athletic horses I had was narrow chested with a big, powerful rear end. |
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| Blueberry3 - 2013-12-09 12:47 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-12-09 10:38 AM
As long as his front legs are not coming out of the same hole in his chest .... a narrow chested horse is more athletic than the old fashioned bulldog quarterhorses with very wide chests between the front legs.
Narrow chested horses can cross over their legs when side passing where the wider chested horses have difficulty and you get a hop in the front end rather than a smooth crossover.
A barrel horse uses the side pass // two tracking routine when turning a barrel ... they will not cross their legs due to speed but that inside front leg reaches towards the barrel to turn and the outside leg follows ... which makes the turn faster and more efficient.
Doc Bar changed the conformation of the old stand up body blocking style of bulldog cutters with wide front ends . His TB lines narrowed the chest, gave them a longer neck for balance so they could get down in front of a cow and flatter muscles that allowed them to move side ways quicker and more fluid.
This can be said for the horses that have barrel horse conformations rather than your ranch style/roping horse conformations.
LIGHTNING BAR is in the pedigrees of both Doc Bar and multiple times with even more 3Bar saturation with FRENCHMANS GUY. LIGHTNING BAR breeding has given both sires the versatility you see in their foals !!
DOC BAR
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/doc+bar
FRENCHMANS GUY
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/frenchmans+guy
Thanks for the information, I haven't heard that before, but it makes sense to me (about the side pass ). I have done some small drills with this gelding and SMOOTH describes his footwork perfectly. And he also has the long neck in him, I have had people tell me that horses with long necks make good barrel horses, although I don't know the reasoning behind it. Anyone know why they say this? I would love to learn more about good conformation in barrel horses.
*******************************************************
A horse uses his head for balance and if he has a nice set and length to his neck and a good throat latch his turns will be much smoother. Also .. to run full out a horse needs to stick his nose straight out in front of them to get his full length of stride and maintain his balance regardless what kind of flopping around his rider is doing ... lol .... you will notice the good horses that wear tie downs wear them loosely where they just bump their noses when they raise their heads to a certain level .... too many tie downs are too tight and keeps the horses chin tucked in which slows them down ...
Watching the quiet deep seated riding that Cervi and Jacob are doing on their horses the past 4 NFR rounds is a pleasure to watch!! Their horses can concentrate on turns and running full out without having to mess with keeping their balance if the riders were flopping around ...
You can see this same quietness on the race track with the best jockeys ... the good jockeys will keep their shoulders squared running all out and bend their elbows if using a bat or just show horse the bat or wave a hand without changing their overall body position ... ... the not so good jockeys will twist their shoulders to the rear of the horse and throw him off balance as he is running home ... makes that nose, head difference just like in the barrel arena when breaking the timer light ...
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2013-12-09 1:27 PM
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| If your horse has a big, deep heart/girth and everything else is good, the chest doesn't have to be particularly wide. They don't even have to have a big butt if they have the good inside muscling in the back. I feel that a horse gets more pulling from the front end than the push from the back. JMO I'll take a light muscled horse if everything else is in place. |
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| MO gal - 2013-12-09 3:37 PM
If your horse has a big, deep heart/girth and everything else is good, the chest doesn't have to be particularly wide. They don't even have to have a big butt if they have the good inside muscling in the back. I feel that a horse gets more pulling from the front end than the push from the back. JMO I'll take a light muscled horse if everything else is in place.
After you watch this pulling contest ... read your comment and see if you still agree with your statement.
Watch all of these various teams and you will see the power is in the rear end and the front legs are just used to hold the horse in place while he gathers his rear end again for another big push with his rear end. As the skid gets heavier you will see each hind leg providing the power one low croutching step at a time and his weight is rocking forward to hold the ground gained with his front feet.
http://youtu.be/Cbs3oYxw2u0
The big V of muscles on each side in the chest attaching to the inside front legs and the heavy inside gaskin on the rear legs are characteristics of draft horse conformations that are meant for pulling. Both of these sets of muscles will slow a horse down if you are breeding for speed. The short heavy duty pasterns is also a must on a draft horse.
I know you will see these two draft horse characteristics in qh's even today.. more so in the thick bodied halter horses. Especially in your northern snow states where draft horses were bred with the little light weight texas cow ponies to give them more size and ability/strength to buck the snow while tending cattle . Old Fred will be on many of these pedigrees ...
And please keep in mind ... the pedigrees for qh's prior to 1940-1950 are not to be trusted due to everyone lying about the bloodlines of their horses and AQHA was registering on bulldog type conformations..... because they needed the money ... so they would just about register anything and take your $1 ...
The old qh owners gave more flack to Walter Merrick about registering 3bar crossed horses than all the dinks that were registered in the previous 20 years... especially when the 3bar horses were kicking their tails on the track ... lol ..
AQHA also hired some gal to make up pedigrees on qh's back in the late 1990's when computers first came on board to use in most businesses. She just destroyed all the facts given about horses by their original owners that said they had no idea of the ancestory of certain great horses ... just that they came from such and such ranch. She made up crap back into the 1800's .... very similar to the nonsense on the XFactor big heart syndrome ...
Enjoy looking at the percheron characteristics in the picture of OLD FRED ...
 (OLD FRED - 60.jpg)
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 OLD FRED - 60.jpg (74KB - 270 downloads)
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 The Non Sky Diver
Posts: 9004
Location: SE Louisiana | BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-12-09 6:23 PM
MO gal - 2013-12-09 3:37 PM
If your horse has a big, deep heart/girth and everything else is good, the chest doesn't have to be particularly wide. They don't even have to have a big butt if they have the good inside muscling in the back. I feel that a horse gets more pulling from the front end than the push from the back. JMO I'll take a light muscled horse if everything else is in place.
After you watch this pulling contest ... read your comment and see if you still agree with your statement.
Watch all of these various teams and you will see the power is in the rear end and the front legs are just used to hold the horse in place while he gathers his rear end again for another big push with his rear end. As the skid gets heavier you will see each hind leg providing the power one low croutching step at a time and his weight is rocking forward to hold the ground gained with his front feet.
http://youtu.be/Cbs3oYxw2u0
The big V of muscles on each side in the chest attaching to the inside front legs and the heavy inside gaskin on the rear legs are characteristics of draft horse conformations that are meant for pulling. Both of these sets of muscles will slow a horse down if you are breeding for speed. The short heavy duty pasterns is also a must on a draft horse.
I know you will see these two draft horse characteristics in qh's even today.. more so in the thick bodied halter horses. Especially in your northern snow states where draft horses were bred with the little light weight texas cow ponies to give them more size and ability/strength to buck the snow while tending cattle . Old Fred will be on many of these pedigrees ...
And please keep in mind ... the pedigrees for qh's prior to 1940-1950 are not to be trusted due to everyone lying about the bloodlines of their horses and AQHA was registering on bulldog type conformations..... because they needed the money ... so they would just about register anything and take your $1 ...
The old qh owners gave more flack to Walter Merrick about registering 3bar crossed horses than all the dinks that were registered in the previous 20 years... especially when the 3bar horses were kicking their tails on the track ... lol ..
AQHA also hired some gal to make up pedigrees on qh's back in the late 1990's when computers first came on board to use in most businesses. She just destroyed all the facts given about horses by their original owners that said they had no idea of the ancestory of certain great horses ... just that they came from such and such ranch. She made up crap back into the 1800's .... very similar to the nonsense on the XFactor big heart syndrome ...
Enjoy looking at the percheron characteristics in the picture of OLD FRED ...
I agree that a draft horse get more momentum from the back legs when pulling a load... But In school we were told that a saddle horse gets more from the front end. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 713
Location: PA | There are exceptions to all of the rules, but narrow horses perform jsut as well as thick, or normal horses. Not sure if anyone saw Bob McKinneys bay horse at IBRA Nationals (won masters) but that horse was a monster! Then you have little things like Baby Flo who is really narrow, and still excels. I personally have a narrow mare and she is them most athletic horses I know. (Oh course I'd pretty biased on my liking for her) She is very quick and smooth on her feet. She also has a TON of reach with her front legs, just trotting it is noticeable how far she is reaching out. |
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 Shoot Yeah
Posts: 4273
Location: Where you need a paddle... Oregon! | I've wondered this as well because I see some pretty broad chests flying up the alleyway. I have a small mare, maybe 15 hands, heavily Doc Bar bred - in fact she is actually appendix. She isn't heavily built in any way. She is fast and she is athletic. I have her at the trainers right now for mounted shooting and he says she's the fastest shooting horse he knows. Fast horses come in many shapes and sizes :) |
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Veteran
Posts: 256
| Thank you all for your input, I have only owned mares and they have all been pretty stout. This gelding does not look anything like them, but he still shows potential. Just his lanky and narrow body concern me, but I feel like it is worth a shot to take him. |
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| Komet - 2013-12-09 6:33 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-12-09 6:23 PM
MO gal - 2013-12-09 3:37 PM
If your horse has a big, deep heart/girth and everything else is good, the chest doesn't have to be particularly wide. They don't even have to have a big butt if they have the good inside muscling in the back. I feel that a horse gets more pulling from the front end than the push from the back. JMO I'll take a light muscled horse if everything else is in place.
After you watch this pulling contest ... read your comment and see if you still agree with your statement.
Watch all of these various teams and you will see the power is in the rear end and the front legs are just used to hold the horse in place while he gathers his rear end again for another big push with his rear end. As the skid gets heavier you will see each hind leg providing the power one low croutching step at a time and his weight is rocking forward to hold the ground gained with his front feet.
http://youtu.be/Cbs3oYxw2u0
The big V of muscles on each side in the chest attaching to the inside front legs and the heavy inside gaskin on the rear legs are characteristics of draft horse conformations that are meant for pulling. Both of these sets of muscles will slow a horse down if you are breeding for speed. The short heavy duty pasterns is also a must on a draft horse.
I know you will see these two draft horse characteristics in qh's even today.. more so in the thick bodied halter horses. Especially in your northern snow states where draft horses were bred with the little light weight texas cow ponies to give them more size and ability/strength to buck the snow while tending cattle . Old Fred will be on many of these pedigrees ...
And please keep in mind ... the pedigrees for qh's prior to 1940-1950 are not to be trusted due to everyone lying about the bloodlines of their horses and AQHA was registering on bulldog type conformations..... because they needed the money ... so they would just about register anything and take your $1 ...
The old qh owners gave more flack to Walter Merrick about registering 3bar crossed horses than all the dinks that were registered in the previous 20 years... especially when the 3bar horses were kicking their tails on the track ... lol ..
AQHA also hired some gal to make up pedigrees on qh's back in the late 1990's when computers first came on board to use in most businesses. She just destroyed all the facts given about horses by their original owners that said they had no idea of the ancestory of certain great horses ... just that they came from such and such ranch. She made up crap back into the 1800's .... very similar to the nonsense on the XFactor big heart syndrome ...
Enjoy looking at the percheron characteristics in the picture of OLD FRED ...
I agree that a draft horse get more momentum from the back legs when pulling a load... But In school we were told that a saddle horse gets more from the front end.
************************************************
Using the draft teams was a good easy way to see the power in the rear ends and how they just stick their front feet while re-gathering their rear ends ...
I am glad you feel strongly and are sticking to your guns ... BUT ..>>>>
Do you have some videos showing your horse using his front legs to pull himself around a barrel or race horses pulling themselves out of the starting gates using their front ends??
Where does everyone look when the words ... big motor.. big butt .. are used and why do buyers look for a big muscular correct rear end??
Have you ever heard any trainer say we need to build up his front end so he can pull himself around the track or thru the pattern??
What stallions would you breed to that have the front end power to pull their rear ends thru a pattern or down a race track?? Do the stallion owners advertise this characteristic in their stallion ads??
**************************************************************
I will continue to go with the power is in the rear and the front end is like a tricycle and is there to support the horses weight and balance while being driven thru a full stride by his rear end.
I think it was around 1920 when cameras had gotten fast enough shutter speeds to even discover that during a galloping stride .. a horse only had one foot on the ground and then moves to having all 4 feet off the ground. .... prior to this everyone swore a horse had 2 feet on the ground at all times during a hard gallop.... in a trot this is true.
Here are a couple of very interesting slo mo gallop videos for everyone to determine if a horse pulls himself along with his front end or if the horse is driven from the power in the rear end .. and uses his front end for weight support and balance or to change directions.
http://youtu.be/OcD1_jvhc_g
Race track slo mo .. watch number 5 and 6 horses to see them lose their front end balance .. stumble and then go to the air while cross firing ... as you know to get the correct front to rear leads back horse has to slow down to a mild lope or trot .. and of course any race is lost when this happens ... (different race) also watch the horses in the turn use their front legs and drive from the rear end to make the turn by slowly changing directions after each full stride to be running straight when the jockey asks them to change from the left lead to the right lead to run on home .... ....
http://youtu.be/3NPGqr6olrk
Have fun watching the videos .. I always find the way a horse moves very interesting.
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| Komet - 2013-12-09 6:33 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-12-09 6:23 PM
MO gal - 2013-12-09 3:37 PM
If your horse has a big, deep heart/girth and everything else is good, the chest doesn't have to be particularly wide. They don't even have to have a big butt if they have the good inside muscling in the back. I feel that a horse gets more pulling from the front end than the push from the back. JMO I'll take a light muscled horse if everything else is in place.
After you watch this pulling contest ... read your comment and see if you still agree with your statement.
Watch all of these various teams and you will see the power is in the rear end and the front legs are just used to hold the horse in place while he gathers his rear end again for another big push with his rear end. As the skid gets heavier you will see each hind leg providing the power one low croutching step at a time and his weight is rocking forward to hold the ground gained with his front feet.
http://youtu.be/Cbs3oYxw2u0
The big V of muscles on each side in the chest attaching to the inside front legs and the heavy inside gaskin on the rear legs are characteristics of draft horse conformations that are meant for pulling. Both of these sets of muscles will slow a horse down if you are breeding for speed. The short heavy duty pasterns is also a must on a draft horse.
I know you will see these two draft horse characteristics in qh's even today.. more so in the thick bodied halter horses. Especially in your northern snow states where draft horses were bred with the little light weight texas cow ponies to give them more size and ability/strength to buck the snow while tending cattle . Old Fred will be on many of these pedigrees ...
And please keep in mind ... the pedigrees for qh's prior to 1940-1950 are not to be trusted due to everyone lying about the bloodlines of their horses and AQHA was registering on bulldog type conformations..... because they needed the money ... so they would just about register anything and take your $1 ...
The old qh owners gave more flack to Walter Merrick about registering 3bar crossed horses than all the dinks that were registered in the previous 20 years... especially when the 3bar horses were kicking their tails on the track ... lol ..
AQHA also hired some gal to make up pedigrees on qh's back in the late 1990's when computers first came on board to use in most businesses. She just destroyed all the facts given about horses by their original owners that said they had no idea of the ancestory of certain great horses ... just that they came from such and such ranch. She made up crap back into the 1800's .... very similar to the nonsense on the XFactor big heart syndrome ...
Enjoy looking at the percheron characteristics in the picture of OLD FRED ...
I agree that a draft horse get more momentum from the back legs when pulling a load... But In school we were told that a saddle horse gets more from the front end.
Western pleasure horses drag themselves along with their front ends and you see a lot of WP horses with very little butt. Forget the draft horse--watch quarter horses running down the track, they push with their rear ends every step of the way. Haven't you noticed that all the girls on here are wanting to get their horse's butt up under them???? that is so they can push off and give you that snappy turn. Even Tennessee Walking horses push with their rear end. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Honeymoney - 2013-12-09 11:31 PM
Komet - 2013-12-09 6:33 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-12-09 6:23 PM
MO gal - 2013-12-09 3:37 PM
If your horse has a big, deep heart/girth and everything else is good, the chest doesn't have to be particularly wide. They don't even have to have a big butt if they have the good inside muscling in the back. I feel that a horse gets more pulling from the front end than the push from the back. JMO I'll take a light muscled horse if everything else is in place.
After you watch this pulling contest ... read your comment and see if you still agree with your statement.
Watch all of these various teams and you will see the power is in the rear end and the front legs are just used to hold the horse in place while he gathers his rear end again for another big push with his rear end. As the skid gets heavier you will see each hind leg providing the power one low croutching step at a time and his weight is rocking forward to hold the ground gained with his front feet.
http://youtu.be/Cbs3oYxw2u0
The big V of muscles on each side in the chest attaching to the inside front legs and the heavy inside gaskin on the rear legs are characteristics of draft horse conformations that are meant for pulling. Both of these sets of muscles will slow a horse down if you are breeding for speed. The short heavy duty pasterns is also a must on a draft horse.
I know you will see these two draft horse characteristics in qh's even today.. more so in the thick bodied halter horses. Especially in your northern snow states where draft horses were bred with the little light weight texas cow ponies to give them more size and ability/strength to buck the snow while tending cattle . Old Fred will be on many of these pedigrees ...
And please keep in mind ... the pedigrees for qh's prior to 1940-1950 are not to be trusted due to everyone lying about the bloodlines of their horses and AQHA was registering on bulldog type conformations..... because they needed the money ... so they would just about register anything and take your $1 ...
The old qh owners gave more flack to Walter Merrick about registering 3bar crossed horses than all the dinks that were registered in the previous 20 years... especially when the 3bar horses were kicking their tails on the track ... lol ..
AQHA also hired some gal to make up pedigrees on qh's back in the late 1990's when computers first came on board to use in most businesses. She just destroyed all the facts given about horses by their original owners that said they had no idea of the ancestory of certain great horses ... just that they came from such and such ranch. She made up crap back into the 1800's .... very similar to the nonsense on the XFactor big heart syndrome ...
Enjoy looking at the percheron characteristics in the picture of OLD FRED ...
I agree that a draft horse get more momentum from the back legs when pulling a load... But In school we were told that a saddle horse gets more from the front end.
Western pleasure horses drag themselves along with their front ends and you see a lot of WP horses with very little butt. Forget the draft horse--watch quarter horses running down the track, they push with their rear ends every step of the way. Haven't you noticed that all the girls on here are wanting to get their horse's butt up under them???? that is so they can push off and give you that snappy turn. Even Tennessee Walking horses push with their rear end.
What quality WP horses are you around that are "dragging themselves along with their front end"? I grew up being fortunate enough to ride with/for some VERY successful WP trainers, including my mother and I can promise you one thing, that's where I learned to make one super deep hocked and collected. |
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The Non Sky Diver
Posts: 9004
Location: SE Louisiana | Honeymoney - 2013-12-09 11:31 PM
Komet - 2013-12-09 6:33 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-12-09 6:23 PM
MO gal - 2013-12-09 3:37 PM
If your horse has a big, deep heart/girth and everything else is good, the chest doesn't have to be particularly wide. They don't even have to have a big butt if they have the good inside muscling in the back. I feel that a horse gets more pulling from the front end than the push from the back. JMO I'll take a light muscled horse if everything else is in place.
After you watch this pulling contest ... read your comment and see if you still agree with your statement.
Watch all of these various teams and you will see the power is in the rear end and the front legs are just used to hold the horse in place while he gathers his rear end again for another big push with his rear end. As the skid gets heavier you will see each hind leg providing the power one low croutching step at a time and his weight is rocking forward to hold the ground gained with his front feet.
http://youtu.be/Cbs3oYxw2u0
The big V of muscles on each side in the chest attaching to the inside front legs and the heavy inside gaskin on the rear legs are characteristics of draft horse conformations that are meant for pulling. Both of these sets of muscles will slow a horse down if you are breeding for speed. The short heavy duty pasterns is also a must on a draft horse.
I know you will see these two draft horse characteristics in qh's even today.. more so in the thick bodied halter horses. Especially in your northern snow states where draft horses were bred with the little light weight texas cow ponies to give them more size and ability/strength to buck the snow while tending cattle . Old Fred will be on many of these pedigrees ...
And please keep in mind ... the pedigrees for qh's prior to 1940-1950 are not to be trusted due to everyone lying about the bloodlines of their horses and AQHA was registering on bulldog type conformations..... because they needed the money ... so they would just about register anything and take your $1 ...
The old qh owners gave more flack to Walter Merrick about registering 3bar crossed horses than all the dinks that were registered in the previous 20 years... especially when the 3bar horses were kicking their tails on the track ... lol ..
AQHA also hired some gal to make up pedigrees on qh's back in the late 1990's when computers first came on board to use in most businesses. She just destroyed all the facts given about horses by their original owners that said they had no idea of the ancestory of certain great horses ... just that they came from such and such ranch. She made up crap back into the 1800's .... very similar to the nonsense on the XFactor big heart syndrome ...
Enjoy looking at the percheron characteristics in the picture of OLD FRED ...
I agree that a draft horse get more momentum from the back legs when pulling a load... But In school we were told that a saddle horse gets more from the front end.
Western pleasure horses drag themselves along with their front ends and you see a lot of WP horses with very little butt. Forget the draft horse--watch quarter horses running down the track, they push with their rear ends every step of the way. Haven't you noticed that all the girls on here are wanting to get their horse's butt up under them???? that is so they can push off and give you that snappy turn. Even Tennessee Walking horses push with their rear end.
I won't discount what you say... But one thing I noticed while I was shoeing horses is how much faster the front shoes wear than the back shoes. Something that cannot be accounted for by the simple fact that the front end carries 60 percent of the horses weight. Not by the amount of wear I've seen. Something else has to be causing that much extra wear.
Edited by Komet 2013-12-10 12:10 AM
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | MO gal - 2013-12-09 4:37 PM If your horse has a big, deep heart/girth and everything else is good, the chest doesn't have to be particularly wide. They don't even have to have a big butt if they have the good inside muscling in the back. I feel that a horse gets more pulling from the front end than the push from the back. JMO I'll take a light muscled horse if everything else is in place. the engine is from the hind.. always.. you should be riding the horse from hind to front. I realize it isnt always the case.. but .. its the correct way.
as far as wide not being able to cross over.. well Not true.. our warmbloods can do halfpasses Like perfection.. they are big chested.. so thats not true..
I cant remember your horses age but if its young he will develop more with proper exercises and nutrition.. he may not be real wide but he will develop those muscles..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2013-12-09 11:49 PM
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I like a narrower horse.
Those Doc bar comments are interesting. Any horse I've owned with a lot of Doc Bar could really fly. Including my main horse right now AND he's narrow chested ( in my book). (And athletic as hell).
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rios+doc+holiday
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 I Google Everything
Posts: 1910
Location: Not sure yet | BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-12-09 6:23 PM MO gal - 2013-12-09 3:37 PM If your horse has a big, deep heart/girth and everything else is good, the chest doesn't have to be particularly wide. They don't even have to have a big butt if they have the good inside muscling in the back. I feel that a horse gets more pulling from the front end than the push from the back. JMO I'll take a light muscled horse if everything else is in place. After you watch this pulling contest ... read your comment and see if you still agree with your statement. Watch all of these various teams and you will see the power is in the rear end and the front legs are just used to hold the horse in place while he gathers his rear end again for another big push with his rear end. As the skid gets heavier you will see each hind leg providing the power one low croutching step at a time and his weight is rocking forward to hold the ground gained with his front feet. http://youtu.be/Cbs3oYxw2u0 The big V of muscles on each side in the chest attaching to the inside front legs and the heavy inside gaskin on the rear legs are characteristics of draft horse conformations that are meant for pulling. Both of these sets of muscles will slow a horse down if you are breeding for speed. The short heavy duty pasterns is also a must on a draft horse. I know you will see these two draft horse characteristics in qh's even today.. more so in the thick bodied halter horses. Especially in your northern snow states where draft horses were bred with the little light weight texas cow ponies to give them more size and ability/strength to buck the snow while tending cattle . Old Fred will be on many of these pedigrees ... And please keep in mind ... the pedigrees for qh's prior to 1940-1950 are not to be trusted due to everyone lying about the bloodlines of their horses and AQHA was registering on bulldog type conformations..... because they needed the money ... so they would just about register anything and take your $1 ... The old qh owners gave more flack to Walter Merrick about registering 3bar crossed horses than all the dinks that were registered in the previous 20 years... especially when the 3bar horses were kicking their tails on the track ... lol .. AQHA also hired some gal to make up pedigrees on qh's back in the late 1990's when computers first came on board to use in most businesses. She just destroyed all the facts given about horses by their original owners that said they had no idea of the ancestory of certain great horses ... just that they came from such and such ranch. She made up crap back into the 1800's .... very similar to the nonsense on the XFactor big heart syndrome ... Enjoy looking at the percheron characteristics in the picture of OLD FRED ...
 Great analogy with the video. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 733
| In my experience it is easier for narrow chest horses than broad chest horses, not that broad ones can't do it and not saying all narrow chest horses will out run broad ones (look at Louie). But of the horses I have had and trained it has been easier for narrow ones, I have spent alot of time teaching broad horses to cross their front legs over each other. Another thing I really like is a good upside down V between their front legs, if a horse is broad this is a requirement for me. |
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Veteran
Posts: 256
| hammer_time - 2013-12-10 2:58 AM
I like a narrower horse.
Those Doc bar comments are interesting. Any horse I've owned with a lot of Doc Bar could really fly. Including my main horse right now AND he's narrow chested ( in my book). (And athletic as hell).
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rios+doc+holiday
This is how he looks ( the gelding I am looking at). Thanks for the pictures, how old is he? Did his build change with exercise? |
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