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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
 
Location: The South | I will admit, I do not know enough about hooves and angles and horse shoes in general. Please help me learn! Our farrier is 70 something years old and seems very knowledgeable, but I want to learn more so I can make sure I'm doing right by my horses. Is there a book you would recommend? Now about my horse...early this summer his toes were getting way too long and his heels were too low and it strained the tendons in his front legs. We had a talk about it and the farrier said he's going to work on it but my horse doesn't grow hardly any heel.
I took some pictures so hopefully someone that knows about this stuff can say if they look decent or not. If not, what would you change? What do I need to ask the farrier to do differently?
He got shoes this Wednesday and I took these pictures today (Saturday). Let me know if I need to take different pictures. Front left:  Rear left:  Rear right:  Front right: 
Edited by LindsayJordan84 2013-12-14 6:06 PM
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
 
Location: Iowa, LA | Best money I ever invested was Pete Ramey's book and Under The Horse Videos. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | annemarea - 2013-12-14 6:57 PM Best money I ever invested was Pete Ramey's book and Under The Horse Videos.
Thank you so much! I'm headed over to Amazon right now!
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 It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | annemarea - 2013-12-14 6:57 PM Best money I ever invested was Pete Ramey's book and Under The Horse Videos.
Do you have his newer book? I have the old (thin, black and white) book. Wondering if the newer, 300+ page one is worth the money. Seems to go a lot more in depth? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | barrelracingchick16 - 2013-12-14 8:07 PM annemarea - 2013-12-14 6:57 PM Best money I ever invested was Pete Ramey's book and Under The Horse Videos. Do you have his newer book? I have the old (thin, black and white) book. Wondering if the newer, 300+ page one is worth the money. Seems to go a lot more in depth?
Yes. I actually bought the new book first. It has lots of great info...not just about feet, but everything that can affect the feet, also. It was a little difficult for me to read, but afterwards I bought the DVDs and those really made everything come together for me! I'll never look at feet the same after being what I've been through. |
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  Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | That second to the last photo you posted, is that a nail up that high (last nail) OMG if it is it's a little too high and I have plenty of other things to say too...LOL
Go to www.hopeforsoundness.com and purchase the DVD's off of Gene's site...easy to watch and understand. He has one on trimming and on shoeing. It teaches you a lot about hoof mechanism, which, once you understand that, you understand why.
Your horse has too much heel in these photos so I'm not sure why he says your horse has no heel...it does grow forward, but, most farrier work done in this fashion produces the same result. He's not trimming the feet down to live sole first of all and no matter what I say he needs to do (or what I would do to fix it) he's not going to understand it, nor will he do it. Let's be honest...if he could see what I see, he'd already know how to fix it or he'd know not to do it in the first place. Toes are too long also, but, again, trying to tell you what to tell him to correct it, will not work. I imagine when your horse is due for a shoeing, the heels are starting to curl under themselves...next time he pulls the shoes ask to look at the heels before he trims any off to see what I'm talking about. |
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 Double Standards Don't Fly
Posts: 1283
Location: At the barn | Long toes and underrun heels. |
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Farrierlady - 2013-12-14 11:04 PM That second to the last photo you posted, is that a nail up that high (last nail) OMG if it is it's a little too high and I have plenty of other things to say too...LOL
Go to www.hopeforsoundness.com and purchase the DVD's off of Gene's site...easy to watch and understand. He has one on trimming and on shoeing. It teaches you a lot about hoof mechanism, which, once you understand that, you understand why.
Your horse has too much heel in these photos so I'm not sure why he says your horse has no heel...it does grow forward, but, most farrier work done in this fashion produces the same result. He's not trimming the feet down to live sole first of all and no matter what I say he needs to do (or what I would do to fix it) he's not going to understand it, nor will he do it. Let's be honest...if he could see what I see, he'd already know how to fix it or he'd know not to do it in the first place. Toes are too long also, but, again, trying to tell you what to tell him to correct it, will not work. I imagine when your horse is due for a shoeing, the heels are starting to curl under themselves...next time he pulls the shoes ask to look at the heels before he trims any off to see what I'm talking about.
Yep, exactly what FarrierLady said. Your farrier is 70+ years old, you are not going to change him or make him understand what needs to be done when he's probably been shoeing this way forever. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Long toes, to much heel and the she isn't shaped right. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | annemarea - 2013-12-14 10:04 PM barrelracingchick16 - 2013-12-14 8:07 PM annemarea - 2013-12-14 6:57 PM Best money I ever invested was Pete Ramey's book and Under The Horse Videos. Do you have his newer book? I have the old (thin, black and white) book. Wondering if the newer, 300+ page one is worth the money. Seems to go a lot more in depth?
What is the name of the book? I looked his name up on Amazon but he had a few different ones, which one is your favorite and I'll start with that one. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | Farrierlady - 2013-12-15 12:04 AM That second to the last photo you posted, is that a nail up that high (last nail) OMG if it is it's a little too high and I have plenty of other things to say too...LOL
Go to www.hopeforsoundness.com and purchase the DVD's off of Gene's site...easy to watch and understand. He has one on trimming and on shoeing. It teaches you a lot about hoof mechanism, which, once you understand that, you understand why.
Your horse has too much heel in these photos so I'm not sure why he says your horse has no heel...it does grow forward, but, most farrier work done in this fashion produces the same result. He's not trimming the feet down to live sole first of all and no matter what I say he needs to do (or what I would do to fix it) he's not going to understand it, nor will he do it. Let's be honest...if he could see what I see, he'd already know how to fix it or he'd know not to do it in the first place. Toes are too long also, but, again, trying to tell you what to tell him to correct it, will not work. I imagine when your horse is due for a shoeing, the heels are starting to curl under themselves...next time he pulls the shoes ask to look at the heels before he trims any off to see what I'm talking about.
Thank you so much Farrierlady!
I'm not for sure which spot you're talking about that might be a nail, but if it's the spot I'm looking at it's just dirt or grass. His hooves were covered in mud so I sprayed them off and led him up to the house, I didn't think about bringing a brush with me.
I am determined to educate myself so I can know what I need from a farrier. Ours is a personal friend so it will be hard to quit using him, but it's necessary for the health of my horses so it has to be done. I just hope I can find a knowledgeable one to replace him, I think good farriers are hard to find around here.
I wish Alabama wasn't so far away, I could ask you to shoe my boys for me. I think I've known deep down that our farrier wasn't the best since I was in college, but I wasn't in the position to do anything about it. Now they are under my care, at my house, and I'm ready to take charge! I don't even know what a proper shoed hoof should look like, it's ridiculous. I was shocked to read that he has too much heel, because when he went lame this summer the vet said his heels were too low. So he talked with our farrier and he said he hasn't been trimming any heel off of him since then. Sheesh I have so much to learn.
Thank you all so much for helping me, I really appreciate it! I promise this isn't like those conformation threads where the owner gets all butt hurt when someone points out something that's wrong. I've had a suspicion that things weren't where they should be and y'all helped confirm that. I need education and I'm determined to work on that. I'm going shopping online to get the books and DVD's y'all suggested, I'm excited to learn and not be intimidated by this any longer.
Thank you! |
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | I'm pretty sure this is the nail FL is asking about.....
A lot of people will look at the picture of your horses foot & say he has no heel. That is simple lack of education as he truly has way to much heel & it's crushed under/underrun. The heel should be trimmed back to the widest part of the frog.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | SaraJean - 2013-12-15 11:36 AM I'm pretty sure this is the nail FL is asking about.....
A lot of people will look at the picture of your horses foot & say he has no heel. That is simple lack of education as he truly has way to much heel & it's crushed under/underrun. The heel should be trimmed back to the widest part of the frog.
That is the spot I was thinking she might be looking at too, thanks Sara! Yea it's just crud I should've brushed off before I took the picture.
I am kicking myself for not learning about all of this sooner, but I'm going to be like a sponge from now on!
Thanks for helping a fellow shooter out  |
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | LindsayJordan84 - 2013-12-15 11:25 AM
SaraJean - 2013-12-15 11:36 AM I'm pretty sure this is the nail FL is asking about.....
A lot of people will look at the picture of your horses foot & say he has no heel. That is simple lack of education as he truly has way to much heel & it's crushed under/underrun. The heel should be trimmed back to the widest part of the frog.
That is the spot I was thinking she might be looking at too, thanks Sara! Yea it's just crud I should've brushed off before I took the picture.
I am kicking myself for not learning about all of this sooner, but I'm going to be like a sponge from now on!
Thanks for helping a fellow shooter out
I was really thinking it looked like a nail too.
Very few people know what they should when it comes to hoof care. I learned when I could no longer keep my good all around horse sound. Sadly, had I decided to learn sooner he'd probably still be competing instead of retired.
Gotta stick together.....shooters are family! |
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Member
Posts: 6
| You cant critique a farriers work just by looking at a medial/lateral view of the hoof with a shoe on. The only way to judge shoe fit is from a solar view with the shoe off. If you are worried about your farriers work and are not confident in him you should probably consider finding a new one. An experienced farrier will instill confidence in you as soon as he pulls up. |
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Member
Posts: 6
| You cant critique a farriers work just by looking at a medial/lateral view of the hoof with a shoe on. The only way to judge shoe fit is from a solar view with the shoe off. If you are worried about your farriers work and are not confident in him you should probably consider finding a new one. An experienced farrier will instill confidence in you as soon as he pulls up. |
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Member
Posts: 6
| You cant critique a farriers work just by looking at a medial/lateral view of the hoof with a shoe on. The only way to judge shoe fit is from a solar view with the shoe off. If you are worried about your farriers work and are not confident in him you should probably consider finding a new one. An experienced farrier will instill confidence in you as soon as he pulls up. |
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Member
Posts: 6
| You cant critique a farriers work just by looking at a medial/lateral view of the hoof with a shoe on. The only way to judge shoe fit is from a solar view with the shoe off. If you are worried about your farriers work and are not confident in him you should probably consider finding a new one. An experienced farrier will instill confidence in you as soon as he pulls up. |
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Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | ^^^ I can, and do it all the time |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | My farrier would always say my horses weren't growing any heel! LOL That was incorrect! They were growing heel but it was folded under so it appeared to not be growing. Once you learn about feet it will all make sense! I'm on my phone or I would mark up some before and after shots of my guy so you can see what we mean. His heels were long and LOW so it appeared as though he had no heel. But an educated eye can see that. Farrier Lady knows her stuff! If I think about it tomorrow, I'll upload some pics to show you what we mean. I'm at work until 6 am!
On the book of Pete Ramey's, it's the only one that's currently in print, I believe. It's called Care And Rehibilitation of The Equine Foot.
Here is a link:
http://www.hoofrehabstore.com/care-and-rehab-of-the-equine-foot/ |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | Thank you Annemarea! I think it's so crazy that a farrier can't tell if a horse is growing heel. I want to send a letter to the school they went to, they need to re-work their curriculum!
I remember your thread about your horse and all of the work you put into bringing him along. I didn't really know what I was looking at so I got overwhelmed, but I was happy for you!
Thank you for giving me the name of his book, I realized that I'm a dork and they showed a bunch of 'similar' books when I searched, and I didn't realize they weren't from that author. I'm recovering from a brain injury and I have frequent brain farts like this, it's so frustrating!
Thank you for helping me guys!  |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Lindsay-
Here is a great example. Top photo shows how long and low my horse's heel was when shod with first farrier. Bottom photo shows his trim a month ago. Notice the vertical line I drew that shows how far forward his heel was and just where it aligned with his bones! Then I put a line showing how LONG his heel was. His heel has now pulled BACK and therefore SHORTENED. And of course his toe has, as well. One thing to remember, the heel follows the toe.... that's an easy way to remember that if you have a long toe that heel will be long, too, because it can only grow the direction the whole foot is going- forward. I hope I broke that down so that you can understand. So, never mistake a low heel as being short just because it is low to the ground. If you picked that foot up and looked at it from the bottom, you would see the end of the heel and where it actually ends.
Farrier lady can probably explain it better than I can since she's got the years of experience. I hope I didn't say anything incorrectly! LOL
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | Oh. My. Gosh. What a difference! Thank you so much for sharing those pictures, that is absolutely amazing!!! You give me hope that I can get this all straightened out |
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Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | annamarea you explained it very well and the photos are a great bonus! |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | I do want to add that we are NOT done working on his feet! We still have to back up that toe/heel some more, so his bottom photo is not where we want him, even though it is a huge improvement. The important thing is that he is SOUND and no longer limping ! |
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 The Rose of Rodeo...
Posts: 2560
Location: Where we still run to look when the siren goes by. | annemarea - 2013-12-16 5:29 PM I do want to add that we are NOT done working on his feet! We still have to back up that toe/heel some more, so his bottom photo is not where we want him, even though it is a huge improvement. The important thing is that he is SOUND and no longer limping !
Wow! How long did it take you to get this far? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Rodeo Rose - 2013-12-16 6:55 PM annemarea - 2013-12-16 5:29 PM I do want to add that we are NOT done working on his feet! We still have to back up that toe/heel some more, so his bottom photo is not where we want him, even though it is a huge improvement. The important thing is that he is SOUND and no longer limping !
I had a second farrier work on him for another year after that photo was taken. Initially, his feet improved, yet he was still on/off lame. After 1 1/2 years his feet were almost back to how the previous farrier had them. He's been barefoot for just over a year. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Here is a pic from the side and also from the bottom of the foot so you can see how long this horses heels are even though it looks like he has no heel when his foot is on the ground. Just wanted to add this is not how I keep my horses feet, he came this way and we are working on him. You can also see how the heel follows the toe and the whole foot pushes forward.
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Barnmom - 2013-12-17 8:43 AM Here is a pic from the side and also from the bottom of the foot so you can see how long this horses heels are even though it looks like he has no heel when his foot is on the ground. Just wanted to add this is not how I keep my horses feet, he came this way and we are working on him. You can also see how the heel follows the toe and the whole foot pushes forward.
Great example! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 425
Location: Some where between there and here. | Just my 2 cents. There are some issues with the feet but its nothing that can't be corrected. I have certainly seen worse feet. One question that should be asked( hope I did not miss this information) is how long has it been since the shoes were reset. Also, we can look at the pictures of other horses feet for comparison all day long but ultimately each horse is different . I also agree that it's better to have a complete look at the feet ( bottom, sides and without shoes) before we judge harshly.
** I do not reply to post much but in this case I thought I would stir the pot a little. How many of you who have made comments about these feet have ever nailed a shoe on. I am not defending the work because there are issues that could be improved ( shoe placement/fit, nail placement overall hoof angle and toe length), I am just stating the fact that most people who have no experiance other than reading a book are usually the first people to throw a stone. ** As a farrier of 22 + years I believe in good, positive critique . I just want the critique I receive to come from someone I can learn from by the example they set/show through their own work. All farriers need continuing education and even though it is not par for the course, all farriers should be willing to entertain questions from their clients. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| puzzle - 2013-12-17 10:16 AM
Just my 2 cents. There are some issues with the feet but its nothing that can't be corrected. I have certainly seen worse feet. One question that should be asked( hope I did not miss this information) is how long has it been since the shoes were reset. Also, we can look at the pictures of other horses feet for comparison all day long but ultimately each horse is different . I also agree that it's better to have a complete look at the feet ( bottom, sides and without shoes) before we judge harshly.
** I do not reply to post much but in this case I thought I would stir the pot a little. How many of you who have made comments about these feet have ever nailed a shoe on. I am not defending the work because there are issues that could be improved ( shoe placement/fit, nail placement overall hoof angle and toe length), I am just stating the fact that most people who have no experiance other than reading a book are usually the first people to throw a stone. ** As a farrier of 22 + years I believe in good, positive critique . I just want the critique I receive to come from someone I can learn from by the example they set/show through their own work. All farriers need continuing education and even though it is not par for the course, all farriers should be willing to entertain questions from their clients.
I haven't posted on this picture, but I do find second comment a bit rude. I have never nailed a shoe on, probably could, but I pay someone else to do that.
I have never went to farrier school, but someone can call themselves a farrier after a 2 day course.
Just because someone has years of experience does not make them any more superior then the owner who has spent countless hours and money with a vet and experienced farrier to fix a horse's feet that a farrier with over 40 years wrecked.
I find your comment condescending that since I have not nailed a shoe on, my experience is invalid |
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | puzzle - 2013-12-17 9:16 AM Just my 2 cents. There are some issues with the feet but its nothing that can't be corrected. I have certainly seen worse feet. One question that should be asked( hope I did not miss this information) is how long has it been since the shoes were reset. Also, we can look at the pictures of other horses feet for comparison all day long but ultimately each horse is different . I also agree that it's better to have a complete look at the feet ( bottom, sides and without shoes) before we judge harshly. ** I do not reply to post much but in this case I thought I would stir the pot a little. How many of you who have made comments about these feet have ever nailed a shoe on. I am not defending the work because there are issues that could be improved ( shoe placement/fit, nail placement overall hoof angle and toe length), I am just stating the fact that most people who have no experiance other than reading a book are usually the first people to throw a stone. ** As a farrier of 22 + years I believe in good, positive critique . I just want the critique I receive to come from someone I can learn from by the example they set/show through their own work. All farriers need continuing education and even though it is not par for the course, all farriers should be willing to entertain questions from their clients.
In the first post it says the shoes had just been put on, as in a couple day old shoe job.
I'll also admit that on a LOT of the trimming/shoeing threads I cringe at the advice given by a lot of people. I can only speak for myself but I've been trimming for over 10 years. There's 14 in my own barn & quite a few others that I trim for customers (I know that's not a lot compared to someone who makes a living at it) but everybody is sound, walking on correct, balanced & healthy feet. I can nail a shoe on if I have to but prefer not to. Have a great vet who is also a farrier who I use in the case of needing shoes on one. |
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Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | Yes, there is a lot of factor that play with why the hoof get in this poor condition. It all depends on the horse. I would also consider the hoof conformation. This is what was inherited and you will need to find what is needed to help. I would diffenitly work the the toe and heel back under the leg. I would also do bar wedge pads that would relief the tendons too. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 425
Location: Some where between there and here. | As I said, STIR THE POT. I was not pointing fingers at any one person but only making a valid point so please unruffle your feathers. I for one am the first to admit there are way to many poorly qualified individuals who call themselves a farrier. By far there are more bad apples in the barrel than good. Very seldom do farriers receive any praise. Usually if we get feed back it is negative. I agree that is is very important that each horse owner be educated . Through education, poorly qualified farriers can be held accountable. As far as the horse's feet, give your farrier the courtesy of discussing your concerns with him first. He may suprise you and listen no matter how long he has been shoeing or how old he is. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | Barnmom - 2013-12-17 8:43 AM Here is a pic from the side and also from the bottom of the foot so you can see how long this horses heels are even though it looks like he has no heel when his foot is on the ground. Just wanted to add this is not how I keep my horses feet, he came this way and we are working on him. You can also see how the heel follows the toe and the whole foot pushes forward.
Thank you Barnmom! The pictures help SO much. I never knew the heel could grow forward like that. I bet Farrierlady is right and that's probably what my horse's heels look like when he's due for a shoeing. This is all so informative, thank you all. I can't wait for my books and DVDs to get here so I can start educating myself. I hope I can turn out to be a success story like Annemarea! For my horse's sake I hope I can grasp all of the information. |
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Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | LindsayJordan84 - 2013-12-17 12:54 PM Barnmom - 2013-12-17 8:43 AM Here is a pic from the side and also from the bottom of the foot so you can see how long this horses heels are even though it looks like he has no heel when his foot is on the ground. Just wanted to add this is not how I keep my horses feet, he came this way and we are working on him. You can also see how the heel follows the toe and the whole foot pushes forward. Thank you Barnmom! The pictures help SO much. I never knew the heel could grow forward like that. I bet Farrierlady is right and that's probably what my horse's heels look like when he's due for a shoeing. This is all so informative, thank you all. I can't wait for my books and DVDs to get here so I can start educating myself. I hope I can turn out to be a success story like Annemarea! For my horse's sake I hope I can grasp all of the information.
If you ever have any questions while trying to learn and understand terms, etc. please don't hesitate to ask me. I am happy to help anyone that asks. I even accept x-rays and photos to my email to look at for you. |
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Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | Sarajean...since I have no idea how to use the tools like you do....can you please mark up that photo barnmom put up to show where the heels should be and all the dead sole, etc. it is a GREAT example of what most feet look like and people think their horse has no heal, when in reality it grows forward. Show the skinny frog, bars, etc.
Thanks for posting the photos barnmom! |
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Farrierlady - 2013-12-17 12:14 PM Sarajean...since I have no idea how to use the tools like you do....can you please mark up that photo barnmom put up to show where the heels should be and all the dead sole, etc. it is a GREAT example of what most feet look like and people think their horse has no heal, when in reality it grows forward. Show the skinny frog, bars, etc.
Thanks for posting the photos barnmom! You're so right, they show exactly what is "normal" to a lot of people. No laughing at my photoshop drawing abilities! On the side view I drew in lines roughly where I would eventually want to see the feet on this horse. On the sole view I did a white line where the heels should be brought back to, red is the crushed heel & bars that need to be trimmed back, and blue is where I'd trim the toe back to & bevel it. Added pics of healthy feet for easy comparing.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | That is amazing. I can't believe some farriers are telling us that our horses aren't growing heel when in reality their heels are too long.
I have been frustrated with this whole process for a while, but I just recently got the 'push' I needed to motivate me to learn about this on my own. How are we supposed to make sure our horse's feet are right if we don't know the fundamentals ourselves?
Thank you all for helping. Y'all are so awesome, I am so grateful!  |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| There are a lot of variables, my gelding who was having rear end lamness when i carried him to a lamness vet the first thing out of his mouth that i have a good farrier and when we did a thermo scan we found that we had some heel pain due to the fact that the inside of his feet have a different angle than out side so he has to be set up a couple of degrees higher a 55 or 56 degrees he does grow good heel so at the end of six weeks he is still 55 or 56. i have had people ask me why he is so high. But he is confortable there, also his feet where not taken care of when her was a baby. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Lindsay- I promise you that I had the best of the best farriers and vets working together to get my horse sound and nothing they did worked until I pulled his shoes. They had him jacked up in pads, wedges, glue-ons, equi pack, blah blah blah. I had multiple people telling me that I had the best farrier working on him and if he couldn't fix him, no one could. Well, like I said, he did get his feet looking better about a year into working on him, but he was still LAME. And, then six months later, his feet were right back to where they were before he started working on them. I could write a book on barefoot, now! LOL I took in a THOROUGHBRED off the track (which everyone told me I would never be able to have good feet on a THOROUGHBRED) with feet like Jug's and walking like a marching soldier....strangest thing you'd ever seen. He was toe jabbing because his heels hurt so bad. Of course, my vet said YOU CANNOT PULL HIS SHOES OR HE WILL REALLY BE LAME. Well, I pulled his shoes and started booting him. By the next trim he was a little better, and by the third trim I really saw the difference. When that horse left me, after being barefoot about 9 months, he had gorgeous feet and was walking BAREFOOT (no boots) on gravel and moving (striding out) like a horse should. He is what convinced me to pull shoes on every horse I had.
Also, once you pull those shoes, you will see that the amount of growth is crazy. It took me 1 whole year to grow a complete new foot on Jug when he was shod. It took me 8 months barefoot. He had been shod many more years than that TB I took in, so he did have a lot more long term damage. The TB only took 6 months to grow a complete new foot! That is without all the crap I had Jug on when he was shod!!! I had him on a hoof supplement, gelatin, magnetic bell boots, blistering the coronary band, etc etc etc and it still took him 1 year to grow that foot out! 8 months with NOTHING put on those feet and NO SUPPLEMENTS at all! All he gets is grass, grass hay, Purina Ultium, and California Trace minerals. No cracks, no chips, no crumbling walls on any of my horses now. And I NEVER paint anything on the feet like I used to. Always keep this little saying that I heard from Pete Ramey in mind: "You grow hoof in MILES, not MONTHS". The more exercise that horse can get, the better for his feet.
I'm not telling you that shod is wrong and maybe one day I'll have to shoe my horses again. But I can promise you I will do everything I can to NOT shoe. When you have a well educated farrier like the one in Decatur TX that shoes but knows how healthy barefeet can be and how much better it is for them, then you have found a gold mine! He's got the best of both worlds! He flat out told me that the way they teach in farrier school is NOTHING like he shoes/trims. He said he went because he needed that little piece of paper to give people confindence, but he shoes completely different than that.
I hope that I don't offend anyone, but this is just my experience with my three shod horses. I also had one baby that had never had shoes and he improved with better trimming. His feet had a funky shape with extremely flared quarters. Several board members have since contacted me and have gone barefoot. I would love to share their stories, but not sure if they would want to come on here publicly and speak.
I wish you the best of luck! I hope, no matter the route you choose, your horse does well! Again, it's just my little bit of experience since going barefoot. Farrier lady can certainly give you better advice than I can! ;-) |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | And just because I've drank the Kool-Aid and am bat s**t crazy about this barefoot crap now:
I want to show you pics of my mare's feet before and after going barefoot. Note how elongated the hoof capsule was. This is so typical of shod feet. They almost look like the horses are on stilts, yet the coffin bone is right next to the ground. This is not a foot that is long on growth, but the internal structures of the foot have actually "sunk" towards the ground. Farrier Lady can probably explain what happens better than I can. Notice how much the hoof capsule shortened after pulling shoes and also, again, take note of those heels changing from long/underrun to backing up and standing up. Ok...I have GOT TO GO FEED NOW! LOL I'll leave your thread alone for a little while!! ;-) Just wanted to show you more *proof* of how the feet can change for the better.
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Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | That is so typical of racetrack shoeing, there are still farriers at the track that believe you get more traction by paring out the sole into a "cup" and that long toes give you a longer stride. Don't get me wrong, there are some very good farriers at the track but many are not and most trainers (and vets too) are not educated on what a foot should look like.
Here is an example of years of bad racetrack shoeing, this horse has bowed several times (hmmmm, I wonder why) and is now a pony horse. In the solar view you can see how streched the white line is. One shoeing in NB shoes and he is much better, still a long way from right.
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 Expert
Posts: 2674
Location: Silver Lake, MN | Love these posts!! I learn so much with this. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | Thank you Annemarea and Barnmom for the pictures!! And Annemarea-I don't want you to "leave my post alone"! Girl, you have no idea how much this is helping me. I am so excited to learn about this, now more than ever. I'm fixing to leave for an appointment, but when I get back I'm going to try to study the pictures some more and see what I can learn.
Farrierlady-you're a brave woman to offer to help me with any questions I may have along the way. I've been stuck in the house since my accident Sep. 22nd so I'm going a little crazy! Maybe this will give me something to focus on so I don't bounce off of the walls. Shoot, learning about feet and shoeing might be as helpful to me as it is for my horses! 
I'm loving these Christmas emoticons |
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Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | Here's some food for thought.... Many race track farriers never shoe a lame horse.....think about it. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Farrierlady - 2013-12-18 1:56 PM Here's some food for thought.... Many race track farriers never shoe a lame horse.....think about it.
Why??? |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | I'm guessing because if they were lame they would have been pulled from the race and if I remember right most TB are shod pretty close to the race itself... |
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Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | At $40 or more a day, they don't keep a lame horse in training very long.
or
They are so full of cortisone they can't be lame.
or
The horse is not lame until AFTER he is shod.
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