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 Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
     
Location: Around here somewhere... | Here on BHW about 3 or 4 years ago I was considering breeding a mare to Woodbridge and was told by different people that he had thrown several foals with Wobblers, but now I can not find anyone who knows anything about any of his babies ever having Wobblers or ANY other problems. (Even MJ Farms denies any knowledge of ANY problems.) I do not remember the name of anyone who told me this, and am now wondering if it is even true or if people were just spreading the rumor. (I KNOW that it was Woodbridge, because he is the ONLY major barrel sire in NM, and I was/am hoping to keep my money in-state).
Edited by Blaundee 2013-12-14 4:34 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| Blaundee - 2013-12-15 2:32 PM Here on BHW about 3 or 4 years ago I was considering breeding a mare to Woodbridge and was told by different people that he had thrown several foals with Wobblers, but now I can not find anyone who knows anything about any of his babies ever having Wobblers or ANY other problems. (Even MJ Farms denies any knowledge of ANY problems.) I do not remember the name of anyone who told me this, and am now wondering if it is even true or if people were just spreading the rumor. (I KNOW that it was Woodbridge, because he is the ONLY major barrel sire in NM, and I was/am hoping to keep my money in-state).
He is a wobbler i personally wouldnt risk it... ive had one that was a wobbler and had to put him down at two.. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 305
| I wish that $hit was public before I bred to him. He came very recommended by big name people. Now I'm worried. I hope that it isn't true since a vet stands him.
Edited by Mitzer 2013-12-14 6:00 PM
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Google Wobbler... it is nerve damage due to injury, not a hereditary gene.
Edited by cow pie 2013-12-14 6:41 PM
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Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | I've been googling it but come up with conflicting info. |
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | cow pie - 2013-12-14 6:38 PM
Google Wobbler... it is nerve damage due to injury, not a hereditary gene.
This is incorrect! Yes, your horse can hurt his neck and then become a "wobbler" but true Wobblers is genetic and is caused from the bone not forming correctly during growth. I've heard from several people that he has wobblers, and while you may get a perfectly healthy baby, I would never chance it. My wobbler was put down and I had many conversations about her issue with multiple vets. They all agreed they would not chance breeding a wobbler. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Mitzer - 2013-12-14 5:49 PM
I wish that $hit was public before I bred to him. He came very recommended by big name people. Now I'm worried. I hope that it isn't true since a vet stands him.
People and vets are breeding PSSM positive horses. They will certainly breed a wobbler , also. $$$$
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Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | Annemarea- would you care to share the pedigree of your wobbler? |
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 Saint Stacey
| If I had a Woodbridge colt, I would be very careful with what I fed them and I would really watch how fast they are growing.
Big, growthy colts can develop wobblers and it isn't pretty. |
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Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Now you have my curiosity. the nerve runs from the poll down under the withers(i'm guessing) so how is this able to affect the nerve due to bone growth? The information I read was saying surgery could be done by making a separation in the bone at the withers and replacing it with metal so the nerve would heal and no longer be pinched. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Blaundee - 2013-12-14 7:05 PM Annemarea- would you care to share the pedigree of your wobbler?
Sure ! I raised her myself. And on a side note, I own her 3/4 brother who also had a bone/growth related issue in his stifle. When I spoke to the Vets at LSU they basically told me that any malformation of the bone, such as wobblers and OCD are really related and highly suspected of being genetic, even though they have not identified the genes associated with it. I personally know of several siblings to my two that also had OCD.
AQHA Perks In Trouble
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/perks+in+trouble
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | cow pie - 2013-12-14 7:12 PM Now you have my curiosity. the nerve runs from the poll down under the withers(i'm guessing) so how is this able to affect the nerve due to bone growth? The information I read was saying surgery could be done by making a separation in the bone at the withers and replacing it with metal so the nerve would heal and no longer be pinched.
The controlling nerves/passageways run through the spine. As they are constricted/pinched off due to the malformation of the spine, the signals cannot get to the backend. So, you generally have this narrowing of the spine and that will cause inflammation and therefore even more constriction. I've had both a Great Dane and a horse with Wobblers. They both first began to drag their back feet and then as more inflammation developed, began to have an off gait. The horse actually fell with her trainer. They both experienced neck pain. I've never heard of a wobbler having surgery. When you have a prospect, it is highly unlikely you would spend the money on a surgery that may or may not help at all. In both of my Wobblers' cases surgery was not even an option. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Here is a link that explains it. Again, Wobblers that happens during growth and not due to an injury is the one I'm speaking of. Obviously if the spine is injured and then arthritis develops, it can cause Wobblers symptoms because essentially the same spinal compression is happening. But that would not be the genetic type of growth related Wobblers that I have experience with. SKM had a horse that was injured later in life and developed Wobblers due to the injury.
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/asc133.pdf
Edited by annemarea 2013-12-14 7:44 PM
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Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | Thanks :) |
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Saint Stacey
| annemarea - 2013-12-14 6:43 PM Here is a link that explains it. Again, Wobblers that happens during growth and not due to an injury is the one I'm speaking of. Obviously if the spine is injured and then arthritis develops, it can cause Wobblers symptoms because essentially the same spinal compression is happening. But that would not be the genetic type of growth related Wobblers that I have experience with. SKM had a horse that was injured later in life and developed Wobblers due to the injury. http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/asc133.pdf
We also had a colt that had to be put down because of growth related wobblers. He all the sudden had a really huge growth spurt. This colt had 4 other full siblings and none of them were like him so I have to question it being heridatary.
I have heard the rumor about Woodbridge but I honestly don't know if there is any truth to it.
But like I said, if I ever had a foal by him... I would be very careful how I fed it and I'd keep a very close eye on how fast it was growing. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | SKM - 2013-12-15 12:42 AM
annemarea - 2013-12-14 6:43 PM Here is a link that explains it. Again, Wobblers that happens during growth and not due to an injury is the one I'm speaking of. Obviously if the spine is injured and then arthritis develops, it can cause Wobblers symptoms because essentially the same spinal compression is happening. But that would not be the genetic type of growth related Wobblers that I have experience with. SKM had a horse that was injured later in life and developed Wobblers due to the injury. http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/asc133.pdf
I have heard the rumor about Woodbridge but I honestly don't know if there is any truth to it.
But like I said, if I ever had a foal by him... I would be very careful how I fed it and I'd keep a very close eye on how fast it was growing.
I forgot about that one, SKM. I understand what you are saying, and I've tried to find studies supporting that it is genetic, but can't. One study I did find actually said that when they bred two known wobblers, they ended up getting babies with OCD, but not wobblers! LOL At any rate...with all I've been through, even my hearing loss being diagnosed as genetic, I still feel researches will one day find a gene responsible. |
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 Sweet Tea
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Location: Home of the World Famous "Silver Bullet" | annemarea - 2013-12-14 7:47 PM cow pie - 2013-12-14 6:38 PM Google Wobbler... it is nerve damage due to injury, not a hereditary gene. This is incorrect! Yes, your horse can hurt his neck and then become a "wobbler" but true Wobblers is genetic and is caused from the bone not forming correctly during growth. I've heard from several people that he has wobblers, and while you may get a perfectly healthy baby, I would never chance it. My wobbler was put down and I had many conversations about her issue with multiple vets. They all agreed they would not chance breeding a wobbler.
true wobblers are genetic. i did not know they could live after 2 or 3. maybe his problem is a injury. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 305
| So when the foal is born they appear normal? And if they have to be put down, why is Woodbridge still alive. Does anyone know how old he was when they discovered this problem ( if he has it.) Also does anyone know what percentage of foals can have it? Thank you for the info. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| I would like to hear about the healthy foals and their dams sides.
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Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | Mitzer - 2013-12-15 8:52 AM I would like to hear about the healthy foals and their dams sides.
Me too. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 454
Location: Decatur, Texas | We have a healthy three year old out of a Sun Frost mare. |
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Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | COautumn - 2013-12-15 11:18 AM We have a healthy three year old out of a Sun Frost mare.
Would you care to share pedigree? :) |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Sebeka, MN | And we have a 2 yr old and a yrlg Woodbridge out of a daughter of Shawne Bug and they're fine. The two-coming-three has been started and ranched on. No problems. |
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Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Thanks for the information... I would be concerned too. Horses seem to be the only animal on this planet that is totally made to self destruct by design. If you don't feel lucky, pass on by and find another, life is hard enough without making it harder. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 305
| thank you for the input I'll keep my fingers crossed. I love the colts out of my mare. |
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Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | cow pie - 2013-12-15 2:02 PM Thanks for the information... I would be concerned too. Horses seem to be the only animal on this planet that is totally made to self destruct by design. If you don't feel lucky, pass on by and find another, life is hard enough without making it harder.
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | My mare started dragging her back feet around 1 1/2-2 years of age. That was her only sign until she was started under saddle at 3. Her trainer complained about her not wanting to flex her neck and thought she was just being difficult. Then at 3 1/2 she went into barrel training and began to fall. She fell twice, and the second time we did neck X-rays and it showed on those. Took her to several more vets for second opinions and by 4 she was officially diagnosed as Wobblers by LSU and we put her down. Hind sight allowed me to see that my dog was actually showing symptoms much younger, but by 5 1/2 I had to put her down as her painful episodes were becoming more and more frequent. Hope that helps! It's always there, but generally doesn't show up until training because that's when we begin to ask the animal to do more difficult maneuvers, etc. Then the neck becomes more inflamed and therefore makes the symptoms worsen. |
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Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | How heartbreaking... |
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Member
Posts: 31
| I have a 6 yr old by him that is a BEATIFUL natural mover....no issues what so ever!!
His maternal side is cow....goes back to Doc Bar.
This is ALL news to me!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1096
| annemarea - 2013-12-15 6:44 PM
My mare started dragging her back feet around 1 1/2-2 years of age. That was her only sign until she was started under saddle at 3. Her trainer complained about her not wanting to flex her neck and thought she was just being difficult. Then at 3 1/2 she went into barrel training and began to fall. She fell twice, and the second time we did neck X-rays and it showed on those. Took her to several more vets for second opinions and by 4 she was officially diagnosed as Wobblers by LSU and we put her down. Hind sight allowed me to see that my dog was actually showing symptoms much younger, but by 5 1/2 I had to put her down as her painful episodes were becoming more and more frequent. Hope that helps! It's always there, but generally doesn't show up until training because that's when we begin to ask the animal to do more difficult maneuvers, etc. Then the neck becomes more inflamed and therefore makes the symptoms worsen.
You basically wrote the story of my 2 yo. It was so heartbreaking because I had so many plans for him. Surgery is possible but it's not 100% guaranteed and will run at least 10-15 thousand dollars possibly more. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 393
| So can offspring of Woodbridge pass it on to thier offspring if they aren't showing signs? Like can it skip a generation? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1028
| I happen to know Woodbridge's full brother Kendall and I don't think I've ever seen a better moving horse than him. I haven't heard of any Woodbridge colts having wobblers any more frequently than any other stud. I also have a friend that has a Make It Anywhere/Streakin La Jolla mare with wobblers that I believe is 7 years old. Yes, she's not the prettiest moving thing, but is a wonderful babysitter for the weanlings. The vets at Oakridge said that basically it's a toss up whether her case was genetic or from physical trauma (if there was any, my friend didn't see it happen). Which is awful, because this mare is absolutely gorgeous. But, since there's a chance it is genetic, it wouldn't be worth it to try to flush her and have a baby. |
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boon
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| I have seen a lot of Woodbridge colts and have never seen one with Wobblers. A friend of mine in Iowa has a TB farm and they had two of their clients TB's diagnosed within a week of each other, one yearling and one weanling. There was no genetic connection between the two. They were told by vets at Iowa State University that it was just bad luck. I had a western pleasure mare that was a wobbler, bred her twice before I sold her and neither of those foals has problems, they are both in the show pen. None of her full siblings, that all grew up in the same environment that she did, were affected either. |
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 Veteran
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Location: Oklahoma or who knows maybe trucking ? | I have a 2 year old gelding out of a beduino mare that is a woodbridge, and a comming yearling filly out of the same mare and she is rebred back to woodbridge for another baby this year. None of them have any problems yet. The 2 year old is race traning right now and the trainer is saying he is super smart and wants to work. |
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Veteran
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Location: S.W. North Dakota | If you have questions about Woodbridge, just call the farm and talk to the owner/farm manager. I've done that, and the answers I received to my questions seemed honest and factual. IMO Woodbridge is a nice horse..... And I don't think the people that own him have anything to gain by not telling the truth about what happened to him......the man I spoke with was forthcoming with details.
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I am your favorite rash and you know it
Location: Being pushed over the edge, NM | Wobblers hasn't been proven to be genetic. You hear about it in racehorses more often because of the way we feed them and expect growth and performance. Woodbridge isn't a wobbler, I have seen the horse a hundred times and there are plenty of his get that are champions across the board. I've never heard of a Woodbridge wobbler, but even if I had, I surely wouldn't say "Woodbridge throws wobblers." I bred to First Moonflash, whose sire was lost to wobblers, got such an outstanding colt that I bred back and have two more contracts. First Moonflash set 4 world records, won almost $1M, and sired an All American winner in his first crop. You can't tell anyone that you wouldn't breed to either stud because of an internet rumor and not get laughed out of the barn. I have a Woodbridge colt who was born loving people and his only problem was his dam deciding to step on his leg. **** happens, it's unfortunate. Woodbridge get are beautiful, trainable, and winning. There is never a guarantee, you can do everything right and get a dud, it's the risk we take. |
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 JMHO
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Location: Oklahoma | I had a big pretty chestnut colt by Chasin Firewater that got Wobblers at 5 months old and had to be put down. We did x-rays and found the ligaments holding the first vert. were torn allowing it to rotate and pinch the spine. Nothing we could do, he was just being a colt. Babies are so very fragile!! Just saying from my experience, wobblers happens far more often from a cause then being inherited. I wouldn't think twice about breeding to Woodbridge if he were local. He has a great track record of winners!!
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Stillwater, OK | The reason that Wobblers is genetic is because it manifests in fast growing colts. Since genetics influences growth, it will secondarily influence chances of getting wobblers. The reason that the study somebody else mentioned produced OCD is because OCD lesions are manifested the same way that wobblers does, by rapid growth. Wobblers has also been shown to manifest as OCD lesions in the cervical vertebrae. Like with horses that throw babies with OCD, owners are discouraged from breeding horses with wobblers or that produce babies with wobblers however, veterinarians can only make a recommendation to the owners. When breeding to a horse with wobblers (or with OCD), it is recommended to feed the colts a careful diet so you don't promote rapid growth. This means feed your horse like a horse, NOT a halter horse, therefore don't push calories because you like cute, fat babies who are 16 hands as yearlings. Be careful of "wobblers diets" though because these are diets that were developed in order to stop and reverse the progression of wobblers after the onset of clinical signs and have be proven to be ineffective. The best way to prevent wobblers is to not breed to known producers and to feed offspring to promote a normal growth rate.
Editing to say that yes, wobblers can manifest later in life due to cervical vertebral trauma and arthritis.
Edited by LopinOkie88 2014-03-10 9:42 AM
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Blessed 
Location: Here | betsykuschel - 2013-12-15 1:50 PM And we have a 2 yr old and a yrlg Woodbridge out of a daughter of Shawne Bug and they're fine. The two-coming-three has been started and ranched on. No problems.
Thank you for sharing I knew you had raised some |
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 Original Bit Gerk
| I have owned some and have ridden some. None have been wobblers. Woodbridge himself is not a true wobbler, he did have an accident on the track that caused him to retire a d that is where the "wobbler story" came from.
The Woodbridge progeny are good minded, well balanced, and generally very pretty.
I dealt with my first wobbler ever last week and had to put him down. His was 100% from a freak accident that caused spinal cord pressure. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Man the internet is a dangerous place... I wouldn't put too much into it . Pull his produce records and look up what his babies have done. Call the breeder and talk to them. I'd hate for a good horse to be tarnished because of an internet story. |
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Blessed
Location: Here | casualdust07 - 2014-03-10 10:41 AM Man the internet is a dangerous place... I wouldn't put too much into it . Pull his produce records and look up what his babies have done. Call the breeder and talk to them. I'd hate for a good horse to be tarnished because of an internet story.
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Woodbridge & Wobblers?