Posted 2013-12-15 9:09 PM Subject: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780 Location: North of the 49th Parallel
This was posted today on the Official NFR Experience's Facebook page....
The 2014 #WranglerNFR Las Vegas dates will be December 4-13, 2014. You will hear many rumblings over the next few months about the future of the NFR and Las Vegas. Here is the statement we issued earlier today. We look forward to a great relationship with our fans in 2014 and beyond!
Statement from Las Vegas Events Regarding the PRCA’s Rejection of Las Vegas’ Offer to Extend the Contract for the Wrangler National Finals Rodeo
The PRCA voted today 6-3 to decline the offer Las Vegas Events made for an extension of the Wrangler National Finals Rodeo to pursue an offer made by Osceola County, Florida. Osceola County exceeded LVE’s offer by more than $4 million.
We are disappointed that the PRCA has chosen to pursue a completely speculative offer versus Las Vegas’ proven 29-year track record.
Adding an additional $4 million to the budget would require a 40% increase in ticket prices. That is not sustainable. We have to balance the demands of the PRCA with the consequence of pricing our fans out of the market. In fact, LVE does not generate a profit from the NFR. All revenue generated from the NFR including ticket sales, Cowboy Christmas, local sponsorship sales and a $2 million LVCVA and LVE rights fee, go directly to the contestants and the PRCA.
Now that we know the PRCA’s true intentions, we will put our full effort into developing a new Series and Finals. For almost 30 years, we have developed a loyal fan base that calls Las Vegas home for the first two weeks in December. We are confident our new “Finals” will exceed all expectations.
I think it would ruin it if they moved to Florida.. IMHO.. yes its a great place and lots of horses and evnts.. but not like that.. it doesnt belong here. my opinion .. and where would they hold it?? and what would the spectators do ? go to disney world?
Well that sucks. It's nice to know that just like all the other clubs, groups, and associations...it's all about making a profit. I don't think that the draw to the Non-Contestants will be as great to Florida, but you never know. I know that those of us on the West Coast will not be as likely to attend. Vegas is great in that it's a 24 hour city with stuff to do at all hours of the night and day.
I was just reading that, I wonder what LVE offered the PRCA? I would think taking the NFR from vegas would hurt vegas, you know they are making money regardless of what LVE says. What does Florida have to offer for nightlife, hotels, convention centers for trade shows? I do not see it moving and if it does the NFR won't be the same NFR we are all used to.
Miami Beach has alot to offer but it is dangerous In Miami.... orlando has universal and all that stuff but still not enough STuff to entertain rodeo crowds..Orlando has alot of high end clubs but not rodeo club types.I just dont see it.. agree with doug it Wont be the same.
wow I cant see that as a good move for PRCA. When the fans cant find anything to do night and day, they wont come. At least not the crowd they pull to Vegas. I for one would not be interested in going to Florida but look forward to Vegas every year. WHere can u find that many rooms, convention centers and activities in one area in Florida like u have in the strip in Vegas?? I see Vegas being packed next year if it turns out to be the last one. THink I will see how soon I can purchase my plane ticket and hotel room. edited orginal post said when the contestants, i meant when the fans cant find..
if this is accurate......i think the PRCA has lost it's mind.....and if LVE is seriously going after this then it will be devastating to the PRCA but I think great for rodeo.....heck, there is no way i would go to florida for the NFR finals but i would still go to vegas for whatever they put together......i'm sure there will be plenty of money still and unless the PRCA is going to start banning members from competing, they will all be shooting for another big event.....
the network change, location change, all of it i think are going to create a lot of blowback from the 'western' community.....
redracinmo - 2013-12-15 9:22 PM wow I cant see that as a good move for PRCA. When the contestants cant find anything to do night and day, they wont come. At least not the crowd they pull to Vegas. I for one would not be interested in going to Florida but look forward to Vegas every year. WHere can u find that many rooms, convention centers and activities in one area in Florida like u have in the strip in Vegas?? I see Vegas being packed next year if it turns out to be the last one. THink I will see how soon I can purchase my plane ticket and hotel room
the contestants are interested in the cash and with another 4 million involved they will be very happy about it......fans....probably not so much....
JcNhEmI - 2013-12-15 9:16 PM I was just reading that, I wonder what LVE offered the PRCA? I would think taking the NFR from vegas would hurt vegas, you know they are making money regardless of what LVE says. What does Florida have to offer for nightlife, hotels, convention centers for trade shows? I do not see it moving and if it does the NFR won't be the same NFR we are all used to.
That is what everyone said 29 years ago when they took it away from OKC. As a kid I remember having bumper stickers and pins that said Keep the NFR in OKC. People couldn't see the positive side of it then..... EVeryone was like that arena is tiny and it would not be a true rodeo in such a small arena...... and so on......
No Final statement from the PRCA but it is looking that Orlando Florida will be the final decision, Alexis bloomer just posted about it on FB and Twitter I believe it is on NFR experience website
Pump the breaks... and realize this press release was issued by the Las Vegas Event's coordinator, not the PRCA. Before you go bashing the PRCA, the truth is a lot different than what you might think. Las Vegas low balled us and we declined, this is the PRCA standing up for it's members! This is not over and for the revenue that the NFR brings to Vegas for 2 weeks in December, their low ball offer was offensive. They think we need them, but they need us more. Stand up for the cowboys. Don't jump to conclusions or fall for some fancy written social media ploy to get people riled up.
Well everyone has an opinion and I may be the odd one but I think it does need to move, it's time to find an arena that will make this a RODEO again, room for the team roping,instead of a sling out of the box with no where to go strap em out and watch a real roping, a bigger barrel pattern let em really run, and not so much about the glitz of Vegas more about the Rodeo, it may not be Florida but I think it's time for a change
In regards to the RUMORS already going Viral about the future of the NFR... The Las Vegas Events Center's press release is such a joke and a misconstrued versio...n of the facts. I want to let the RODEO fans know from someone who has a little "inside-insight"... As professional cowboys and cowgirls our husbands and wives bust their butts all year long to make a living for themselves and their families and normally do NOT make their annual profit/income until qualifying for the NFR and then in turn winning the offered up "Prize Money". The cowboys and cowgirls have finally taken a stand together to help financially better their sport which has been a long time coming. What the below "BIASED" press release does not tell you is the PRCA has taken a stand to be the voice of the cowboys, the very athletes we all pay to watch. There is no definite direction to where the NFR will settle and Florida is NOT the only offer on the table. What merely has happened is a business negotiation, a low ball offer, and un-happy side (that financially CAN be a player). My encouragement to ALL Rodeo fans is to not jump on a bandwagon nor be sneakily persuaded by a well written press release. STAND Behind and support the cowboys in waiting for a legitimate offer for the FUTURE HOME of the NFR wether it be Las Vegas or another deserving location.
Las Vegas lost the prized National Finals Rodeo when the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association board voted 6-3 Sunday to leave Sin City after 2014, and to pursue an offer to move the Super Bowl of rodeo to Central Florida.
Less than 24 hours after the NFR completed its 29th year in Las Vegas, the Osceola County Commission met at noon Sunday to approve a memorandum of understanding with the PRCA. The county near Orlando will provide $16 million in annual purses and administrative costs as well as a new 24,000-seat arena. The board of the Colorado Springs, Colo.-based PRCA then voted to pursue the Orlando area as the NFR’s new home.
Las Vegas Events, which promotes and markets the NFR, was disappointed.
“Osceola County exceeded LVE’s offer by more than $4 million. We are disappointed that the PRCA has chosen to pursue a completely speculative offer versus Las Vegas’ proven 29-year track record,” Las Vegas Events said in a statement Sunday evening.
Las Vegas Events, the non-profit organization of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority, confirmed the PRCA board’s 6-3 vote to leave Las Vegas in favor of Kissimmee in Osceola County.
“We put together a package we thought would be very competitive,” Osceola County Commission Chairman Fred Hawkins, Jr. told the Review-Journal.
The PRCA deal with Osceola County is a 20-year agreement but allows either side to pull out after 10 years. The deal calls for a new arena to be built in Osceola County by 2015. The NFR would be held at the Orlando Magic’s NBA arena in downtown Orlando in 2015.
The new arena for the NFR will be built near the Gaylord Palms Resort and Convention Center, Hawkins said.
Under the memorandum of understanding, the PRCA and Osceola County have 90 days to close the deal. PRCA officials could not be reached for comment.
This is a breaking news story. Please check back for updates.
looks like we will know for sure within 90 days if they really finalize a contract but you don't go this far and back out unless there is a huge problem...
No Final statement from the PRCA but it is looking that Orlando Florida will be the final decision, Alexis bloomer just posted about it on FB and Twitter I believe it is on NFR experience website .......thinking about it now, as much as I love Florida .....its just I always dreamed of running in Vegas now I am kinda sad.
CheckItOut - 2013-12-15 9:35 PM Pump the breaks... and realize this press release was issued by the Las Vegas Event's coordinator, not the PRCA. Before you go bashing the PRCA, the truth is a lot different than what you might think. Las Vegas low balled us and we declined, this is the PRCA standing up for it's members! This is not over and for the revenue that the NFR brings to Vegas for 2 weeks in December, their low ball offer was offensive. They think we need them, but they need us more. Stand up for the cowboys. Don't jump to conclusions or fall for some fancy written social media ploy to get people riled up.
Also, from the time the NFR left OKC to today, the prize money to win a go round at the Finals has only increased around $250.00 a year since it moved to Vegas.. That's not really stepping it up a whole lot..
kickincans - 2013-12-15 9:36 PM Well everyone has an opinion and I may be the odd one but I think it does need to move, it's time to find an arena that will make this a RODEO again, room for the team roping,instead of a sling out of the box with no where to go strap em out and watch a real roping, a bigger barrel pattern let em really run, and not so much about the glitz of Vegas more about the Rodeo, it may not be Florida but I think it's time for a change
CheckItOut - 2013-12-15 10:35 PM Pump the breaks... and realize this press release was issued by the Las Vegas Event's coordinator, not the PRCA. Before you go bashing the PRCA, the truth is a lot different than what you might think. Las Vegas low balled us and we declined, this is the PRCA standing up for it's members! This is not over and for the revenue that the NFR brings to Vegas for 2 weeks in December, their low ball offer was offensive. They think we need them, but they need us more. Stand up for the cowboys. Don't jump to conclusions or fall for some fancy written social media ploy to get people riled up.
Thank you!! There is a lot more to it than what the press release says and always two sides.
CheckItOut - 2013-12-15 9:35 PM Pump the breaks... and realize this press release was issued by the Las Vegas Event's coordinator, not the PRCA. Before you go bashing the PRCA, the truth is a lot different than what you might think. Las Vegas low balled us and we declined, this is the PRCA standing up for it's members! This is not over and for the revenue that the NFR brings to Vegas for 2 weeks in December, their low ball offer was offensive. They think we need them, but they need us more. Stand up for the cowboys. Don't jump to conclusions or fall for some fancy written social media ploy to get people riled up.
Also, from the time the NFR left OKC to today, the prize money to win a go round at the Finals has only increased around $250.00 a year since it moved to Vegas.. That's not really stepping it up a whole lot..
EXACTLY... For the BILLIONS of dollars that the NFR brings in for 10 days in Vegas during their off season, that is BS. Thank the PRCA for having some b@lls and supporting their members.
the number I haven't seen yet is how much Las Vegas was willing to pay to keep the NFR there. How big of a percentage is the $4 million that FL offered above LV's bid? next years' finals may be a harder ticket that usual
Those that are whining about Vegas, the finals are where cowboys have a chance to get ahead of breaking even. LV low balled them with their offer. The nfr brings a LOT of money to that town. Why shouldn't the stars of the show get better compensation? Competition between venues will only make the finals better. Nothing is final yet.
I dreamed since I was a little girl of pulling my rig down the strip and staying in the MGM grand, and walking into the T&M and all of that, but in the same way I love my sport and want it to grow its the people that are in it that matter not the City or building, the people make the rodeo. I agree with what Alexis Bloomer just tweeted.
" We have to continue to support our sport. I'm passionate about this sport and it deserves our support, no matter what happens. Stay positive. "
CheckItOut - 2013-12-15 10:35 PM Pump the breaks... and realize this press release was issued by the Las Vegas Event's coordinator, not the PRCA. Before you go bashing the PRCA, the truth is a lot different than what you might think. Las Vegas low balled us and we declined, this is the PRCA standing up for it's members! This is not over and for the revenue that the NFR brings to Vegas for 2 weeks in December, their low ball offer was offensive. They think we need them, but they need us more. Stand up for the cowboys. Don't jump to conclusions or fall for some fancy written social media ploy to get people riled up.
Thank you!! There is a lot more to it than what the press release says and always two sides.
that is probably true but the PRCA needs the fans to make this deal work or in 7 years they will be the ones looking for a new home.....
God Is My Light - 2013-12-15 9:47 PM I dreamed since I was a little girl of pulling my rig down the strip and staying in the MGM grand, and walking into the T&M and all of that, but in the same way I love my sport and want it to grow its the people that are in it that matter not the City or building, the people make the rodeo. I agree with what Alexis Bloomer just tweeted. " We have to continue to support our sport. I'm passionate about this sport and it deserves our support, no matter what happens. Stay positive. " Alexis Bloomer.
God Is My Light - 2013-12-15 9:47 PM I dreamed since I was a little girl of pulling my rig down the strip and staying in the MGM grand, and walking into the T&M and all of that, but in the same way I love my sport and want it to grow its the people that are in it that matter not the City or building, the people make the rodeo. I agree with what Alexis Bloomer just tweeted. " We have to continue to support our sport. I'm passionate about this sport and it deserves our support, no matter what happens. Stay positive. " Alexis Bloomer.
Maybe the American will move to Vegas??
That could happen, didn't think of that ya never know.
Some customers I`ve talked to the past few weeks have said they were skipping the NFR this year to instead make a trip to the All American Rodeo. I suppose as a fan, if it does move to Florida there will be more people making other rodeo plans.
what other areas do you all offer as being a good place? Florida has enough to offer in orlando but you have to wear mickey mouse ears instead of cowboy hats.
The livestock and horses will die .. in the heat here.. its winter but not cold down south. its clearly in the 80's.. coming from northern states with their winter coats and acclimated to cold.. it will be very hard on them here.. bad decision .. stay in cold climates.
last week the Las Vegas times wrote a great article about the talks of the PRCA leaving the compared it to when miss America dumped them to go back to the board walk - I guess that it is starting to show true - part of the draw to Vegas is all the other options you get when you go there - nice dinning that maybe you can't get in your home town, shows, shopping, the World Series finals, ect. My dad use to have a booth there for almost twenty years I know that he wouldn't take his business across the country - - - it seems to me that I would want to hear what the cowboys have to say the whole reason they started the organization was to have a say so where is there say now??? I guess a lot of us are seeing it from the prospective of the spectators who attend Vegas and who some day want to hear our names called as we go down the tunnel of the T & M
The livestock and horses will die .. in the heat here.. its winter but not cold down south. its clearly in the 80's.. coming from northern states with their winter coats and acclimated to cold.. it will be very hard on them here.. bad decision .. stay in cold climates.
svincent - 2013-12-15 11:37 PM Can somebody explain the financial side of things here? I don't fully understand what exactly LVE pays for, or why. Do they front the PRCA everything and then the PRCA pays everything back after ticket sales? I just don't understand.
dont quote me but i thought i saw that they dont get a fair cut.. the contestants.. so a differant venue they would get more .. i think .. not sure
I am not really sure how they financials exactly work, but from the sounds of things they are trying to get the cowboys more prize money. From what some of the cowboys/girls and their spouses have put on face book it sounds like they are in favor of the PRCA's decision. With Nascar and some of the other things that go on in Vegas, the rodeo brings in money but not as much compared to those events. No Florida is not an ideal place, and I love Vegas, alot of the time we go down during the NFR and don't even go to the actual rodeo, its just when we like to go to Vegas. Would I go in Florida, no but is on the opposite side of the country from us, if I lived in Florida would I go to Vegas to the NFR prob not. I don't know if Florida has gambling, but most rodeo people LOVE to gamble (just a little observation I have made) and I know some of my friends go down for the roping and stuff they have during the rodeo so that all may hurt them. But the facts of it is they are willing to put up more money and build a new arena hard to turn that down. I really hope Vegas will come around but I don't know if they NFR really has enough weight to through around to get them to. I do think they would get more spectators moving to a little more central location like Texas. If it does move it will be really sad, I like when the cowboys go to Vegas, but it all comes down to the bottom like. Those cowboys and cowgirls work hard to get there and I am sure most of their money is spent when they get there, they deserve to make as much as they can in those 10 days. Personally I don't see it lasting longer than 7 years but hey who knows.
So the city of LV... Pays the PRCA to bring the NFR to town...
But why? Just for the millions in business that the event generates for the city?
So it works as though Las Vegas is the "sponsor" of the NFR? I'm just trying to understand - I have no experience with this type of business relationship.
Ugh. I don't know what to think anymore. I naturally want to support the sport, and if the competitors have the opportunity to make more $$ at a different venue, then I'm open. But I don't want fees for spectators to go up. That's going to lose a lot of business. I also don't like the idea of FL. It's hot, it is not a central location at all, and getting a plane ticket to FL in December doesn't seem like it'll be so easy. I don't really want it to move, but I'd be open to a location that has more to offer than FL.
This is a tweet that was on my Twitter so I don't know if this has been confirmed or not: "under florida law livestock that come from Canada has to be quaratine for 3 months. That means the stock from the CES can't buck" That is gonna really suck for stock contractors like Calgary Stampede and Kesler.
So the city of LV... Pays the PRCA to bring the NFR to town...
But why? Just for the millions in business that the event generates for the city?
So it works as though Las Vegas is the "sponsor" of the NFR? I'm just trying to understand - I have no experience with this type of business relationship.
OK not sure if this is correct but I believe the LVE or other venue promises the PRCA x amount of money, then the venue keeps the profit over amount x. I know that the contestants have their fees paid, and are guaranteed $10K. So if they win lets say $15,000 they don't also get the $10k. But if they win $7000 they will get $3000 so it totals $10,000, or if they win zero they get $10,000. I know $10k might sound like alot but I have always heard (from NFR qualifiers) that the money they make at the finals is usually their profit for the year. So when you consider $10,000 as a yearly profit it really doesn't look as good.
So in the article, Vegas put out, it said that Florida is offering $4 million more than Vegas. In the article that Florida put out it said that Vegas pays $15 mil and Florida offered $16 mill. So I am guessing since the contract with Vegas is up after 2014 in the new contract that Vegas offered the PRCA it dropped from $15 mill to $12 mil (16-4). Now IMO this is a business move on Vegas' part to try to get it at a lower cost, I am guessing the amount they offered is not the true amount they are actually willing to pay. Please don't flame me this all speculation. Its finals week, my brain is fried, I could not be making any since.
I think if it's a substantial bigger payday for the contestants it will be good for the sport. And to think it will fail in fl......I doubt it. I know alot of people like the atmosphere of Vegas but Thomas and mack is sold out every night, so unless Vegas events brings more money to the table how does the casinos being full of cowboys and cowgirls help grow the prize money? It doesn't. I think it's exciting for the sport myself!
So the city of LV... Pays the PRCA to bring the NFR to town...
But why? Just for the millions in business that the event generates for the city?
So it works as though Las Vegas is the "sponsor" of the NFR? I'm just trying to understand - I have no experience with this type of business relationship.
OK not sure if this is correct but I believe the LVE or other venue promises the PRCA x amount of money, then the venue keeps the profit over amount x. I know that the contestants have their fees paid, and are guaranteed $10K. So if they win lets say $15,000 they don't also get the $10k. But if they win $7000 they will get $3000 so it totals $10,000, or if they win zero they get $10,000. I know $10k might sound like alot but I have always heard (from NFR qualifiers) that the money they make at the finals is usually their profit for the year. So when you consider $10,000 as a yearly profit it really doesn't look as good.
So in the article, Vegas put out, it said that Florida is offering $4 million more than Vegas. In the article that Florida put out it said that Vegas pays $15 mil and Florida offered $16 mill. So I am guessing since the contract with Vegas is up after 2014 in the new contract that Vegas offered the PRCA it dropped from $15 mill to $12 mil (16-4). Now IMO this is a business move on Vegas' part to try to get it at a lower cost, I am guessing the amount they offered is not the true amount they are actually willing to pay. Please don't flame me this all speculation. Its finals week, my brain is fried, I could not be making any since.
Thank you! That makes sense and is pretty close to what I understood it to be. So hypothetically....
LVE gives PRCA 15m for the rodeo expenses. The NFR generates 20m in ticket sales. LVE gets to keep the profit, 5m.
Right? Lol sorry folks, I'm just trying to get the info straight in my brain.
So the city of LV... Pays the PRCA to bring the NFR to town...
But why? Just for the millions in business that the event generates for the city?
So it works as though Las Vegas is the "sponsor" of the NFR? I'm just trying to understand - I have no experience with this type of business relationship.
OK not sure if this is correct but I believe the LVE or other venue promises the PRCA x amount of money, then the venue keeps the profit over amount x. I know that the contestants have their fees paid, and are guaranteed $10K. So if they win lets say $15,000 they don't also get the $10k. But if they win $7000 they will get $3000 so it totals $10,000, or if they win zero they get $10,000. I know $10k might sound like alot but I have always heard (from NFR qualifiers) that the money they make at the finals is usually their profit for the year. So when you consider $10,000 as a yearly profit it really doesn't look as good.
So in the article, Vegas put out, it said that Florida is offering $4 million more than Vegas. In the article that Florida put out it said that Vegas pays $15 mil and Florida offered $16 mill. So I am guessing since the contract with Vegas is up after 2014 in the new contract that Vegas offered the PRCA it dropped from $15 mill to $12 mil (16-4). Now IMO this is a business move on Vegas' part to try to get it at a lower cost, I am guessing the amount they offered is not the true amount they are actually willing to pay. Please don't flame me this all speculation. Its finals week, my brain is fried, I could not be making any since.
Thank you! That makes sense and is pretty close to what I understood it to be. So hypothetically....
LVE gives PRCA 15m for the rodeo expenses. The NFR generates 20m in ticket sales. LVE gets to keep the profit, 5m.
Right? Lol sorry folks, I'm just trying to get the info straight in my brain.
Yes I THINK so, but I am thinking that LVE gets more like $50 mil not $5 mil. I think that is why the PRCA was so offended by they offer.
Posted 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 733
Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
Posted 2013-12-16 2:20 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Bit O Holic
Posts: 6448 Location: hot, humid and dry...Gulf coast East of Houston..
I understand it from a contestants prospective, and I am all for them getting paid more, but I am afraid that it will hurt it as a whole. Maybe im wrong, but it seems like more "spectators" like to visit Vegas, and shop, gamble, ect.. And in return that helps the sponsors bring in more revenue to be able to sponsor more. I just dont see any place offering as much for the fans as Vegas does. I am not familiar with Florida or even other areas that may have offers out as well. I hope I am wrong, and where ever they choose to go will bring even more fans, but im just not sure that thats the best thing right now.
Another question I have, just thinking out loud here, but I recall seeing LVE made a comment about them having a new finals should WNFR leave. What are the other options for a finals without WNFR? Would it open up the door for CPRA or something of the likes to become bigger and gain more sponsors and competetors to possibly out do the PRCA?
Posted 2013-12-16 2:54 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586 Location: Phoenix
The whole point of going to the NFR is going to Vegas. It just fits! The atmosphere, the lights, the hustle and bustle....I just don't see Florida being as fitting. But if it means bigger payout--they will go where the money is and many fans will follow. But I probably won't.
Posted 2013-12-16 3:28 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Ok, this thing looks like it may really happen. The agreement would be a 20 year contract apparently. They would hold the first one in the Orlando magic arena. Then after that in a new 24,000 seat arena. Also this is all tied in with the American music resort that is apprently being built there and this is where the arena would be built.
Posted 2013-12-16 5:02 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
The Famous Hot Wing Chicken Girl
Posts: 2964
While I don't agree with Florida as the chosen state, this could be good for rodeo on several different levels. For starters, us east coast cowgirls and cowboys don't have hardly any PRCA/WPRA rodeos we can enter. Maybe by moving the NFR, we will get more opportunities to run those events and attempt to qualify.
Money is another big reason. If you break it down, those qualifying for the NFR really aren't rolling in the dough.
Everyone wants rodeo to be noticed..maybe this is how it will happen.
Posted 2013-12-16 6:23 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky
I'll be the bad guy here. I wouldn't mind it being moved. I like Vegas, but I also like traveling and seeing different places. I wouldn't mind if the NFR was bid on like the Olympics, that way I can be moved. A lot of people use the NFR as a vacation, and I wouldn't mind seeing something different.
Posted 2013-12-16 6:29 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
To the Left
Posts: 1865 Location: Florida
I remember when the finals moved to Las Vegas, for sure we thought it was a bad move. Rodeo is family oriented and they want to move to "Sin City"! You can't get more family oriented than Orlando/Kissimmee area. Lots of stuff for kids to do, great hotels, clubs, restaurants, and you can drive 30 minutes and go to the beach. Plus we have a huge international airport, rail service, and after it is over spectators can go on a cruise.
Posted 2013-12-16 6:34 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Saint Stacey
Why is entertaining other offers stupid? If you ask me, Vegas would be stupid not to increase their offer. December was a dead time in Vegas before the NFR came to town. Now December is probably their most successful month.
If Vegas wants to keep the cash cow that's been created, they should increase the offer. I would hate to see the NFR leave Vegas. But then again, the PRCA needs to go were the contestants can make the most money.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:07 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
Posted 2013-12-16 8:10 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1037
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
I agree with you.. lost alot of respect for him this morning when he was so quick to dismiss the fans. What I want to know is what about the top people who are sponsored by MGM Grand and Mirage??? What kind of hit are they taking if NFR moves from Vegas?
Posted 2013-12-16 8:20 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart
I still have a problem with the PRCA after they tried to take the barrel racing away from the WPRA and a certain barrel racer jumped on their band wagon. I lost a lot of respect for both. I go to Vegas almost every year, I attend 1 performance and the rest of the time see the sights, gamble and shop. I don't think I will go to Florida, so I guess next year will be my last NFR if they make this move.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:21 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
You need to keep in mind that alot of people who go out to Vegas during the nfr just go out to party and never go to the rodeo. And think about the demographics of the people who do go to the rodeo, alot of those people don't drink or gamble. I think you would be surprised at the amount of those people who would be happy to see it moved outta sin city. And into a more family friendly city. Having said that I think the people who are going to actually attend the rodeo will still go.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:29 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 1488
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:21 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
You need to keep in mind that alot of people who go out to Vegas during the nfr just go out to party and never go to the rodeo. And think about the demographics of the people who do go to the rodeo, alot of those people don't drink or gamble. I think you would be surprised at the amount of those people who would be happy to see it moved outta sin city. And into a more family friendly city. Having said that I think the people who are going to actually attend the rodeo will still go.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you weren't a business major.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:33 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
TXBO - 2013-12-16 8:28 AM
I'd be very surprised if Vegas doesn't have a very attractive counter offer.
I don't kno......I thought that to. But go on the Internet and read about it. This thing has already progressed farther than what I would have thought. Honestly. It sounds like to me it's just formality of "signing the papers" now unless Las Vegas does something pretty quick. But your talking about a pretty big disparity in dollars. So I'm not sure they will pony it up.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:33 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342 Location: NE Texas
bccanchaser16 - 2013-12-15 10:19 PM The only place that comes to mind is Cowboys Stadium in Dallas.
And the good Lord knows that place needs a serious pick me up after yesterdays performance! I say put Cody Ohl in at QB for the Cowboys and bring the NFR to Jerry's world! Let's get some REAL cowboys in that monstrosity!
Posted 2013-12-16 8:38 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 8:29 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:21 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
You need to keep in mind that alot of people who go out to Vegas during the nfr just go out to party and never go to the rodeo. And think about the demographics of the people who do go to the rodeo, alot of those people don't drink or gamble. I think you would be surprised at the amount of those people who would be happy to see it moved outta sin city. And into a more family friendly city. Having said that I think the people who are going to actually attend the rodeo will still go.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you weren't a business major.
I'll go out on another limb and bet money that I have owned/and ran more business than you ever have or will. Assuming that you have ever even owned one, which would be a big assumption, " Mr.Trump" lol
Posted 2013-12-16 8:38 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846 Location: Florida..
true about family atmosphere and there is night life .. just not rodeoy. but clubs galore.. daytime there is all the parks and universal and epcot and water parks etc.. its like a city inside a city.. youd never have to leave.. so good point.hotels are more costly much more .. from what it seems but worth it.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:44 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 6:21 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
You need to keep in mind that alot of people who go out to Vegas during the nfr just go out to party and never go to the rodeo. And think about the demographics of the people who do go to the rodeo, alot of those people don't drink or gamble. I think you would be surprised at the amount of those people who would be happy to see it moved outta sin city. And into a more family friendly city. Having said that I think the people who are going to actually attend the rodeo will still go.
With a 40% ticket increase? Plus the cost of the hotel being quite a bit more? Hum.......
Posted 2013-12-16 8:49 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
New Baseball Convert
Posts: 2303 Location: stalking Gail...
bccanchaser16 - 2013-12-15 10:05 PM This is a tweet that was on my Twitter so I don't know if this has been confirmed or not: "under florida law livestock that come from Canada has to be quaratine for 3 months. That means the stock from the CES can't buck" That is gonna really suck for stock contractors like Calgary Stampede and Kesler.
That is a key piece of information that I hope does not get lost in all the negotiations...
Posted 2013-12-16 8:51 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
justcruzin - 2013-12-16 8:44 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 6:21 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
You need to keep in mind that alot of people who go out to Vegas during the nfr just go out to party and never go to the rodeo. And think about the demographics of the people who do go to the rodeo, alot of those people don't drink or gamble. I think you would be surprised at the amount of those people who would be happy to see it moved outta sin city. And into a more family friendly city. Having said that I think the people who are going to actually attend the rodeo will still go.
With a 40% ticket increase? Plus the cost of the hotel being quite a bit more? Hum.......
Everyone keeps bringing up the 40 percent ticket increase. I believe this is misunderstood. I think LVE was saying to match the money Orlando is offering they would have to increase tickets that much IN las vegas. Not that tickets would cost more than the currently do, in Orlando. Plus the arenas in Orlando will have more seating to offset some of the costs.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:03 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519 Location: Arizona
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 7:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
I totally agree!! Orlando can't do this for 30years...I doubt they can get a return fan base for 5 years. And who is going to suffer, not me, the fan, but the contestants..the purse prize will be less and less every year. Not a good move on the PRCA side! No fans, no rodeo!!
Posted 2013-12-16 9:04 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 2097 Location: Deep South
This article answers some of ya'lls questions. Apparently the LVE is a non-profit organization, they are there to generate revenue for the city and the NFR generates a LOT.
Some of you are saying that you can't believe it's being moved to somewhere as NON-centrally located as FL (like Nevada is centrally located?). Well this board is predominantly people west of the MS river. There are a LOT of rodeo fans on the east of the MS who are thrilled about the possibility of it moving. My FB newsfeed is blown up with people talking about it.
Another thing, "The only thing Orlando has to offer is Disney" ???? That's like saying all Vegas has to offer is casinos. It's a stereotype. Vegas is very welcoming to the rodeo community and offers all those after shows that people love, and I'm sure that FL would too. FL has a nightlife with the clubs, but it also has a ton of family oriented things that Vegas is lacking. Some of you say you probably won't go if it moves, well they'll probably be drawing a new crowd anyway. Families that wouldn't take their little britches age kids before will now.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:09 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 6:51 AM
justcruzin - 2013-12-16 8:44 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 6:21 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
You need to keep in mind that alot of people who go out to Vegas during the nfr just go out to party and never go to the rodeo. And think about the demographics of the people who do go to the rodeo, alot of those people don't drink or gamble. I think you would be surprised at the amount of those people who would be happy to see it moved outta sin city. And into a more family friendly city. Having said that I think the people who are going to actually attend the rodeo will still go.
With a 40% ticket increase? Plus the cost of the hotel being quite a bit more? Hum.......
Everyone keeps bringing up the 40 percent ticket increase. I believe this is misunderstood. I think LVE was saying to match the money Orlando is offering they would have to increase tickets that much IN las vegas. Not that tickets would cost more than the currently do, in Orlando. Plus the arenas in Orlando will have more seating to offset some of the costs.
I need to do some research, I still don't care for the idea, I personally like the NFR in Vegas. I just don't see it as a good move, but that's coming from a fan, not a contestant's perspective.
I think the whole thing will be more expensive, the food price alone will kill ya! I don't usually do buffet's but most everyone else does, it's cheaper. Do they have 200 buffet's in Orlando?
Posted 2013-12-16 9:11 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Regular
Posts: 81
Here is what contestants and others don't see - each host hotel donates a block of rooms for up to twenty dates depending on who is staying there ie - flag girls, secretarys, pick up men, feed crew, people that we as the public don't see (and the reason I know this is I worked for Shawn Davis and wrote contracts for the WNFR telling each person where they were staying and what days ect.) The stock contractors get rooms - so is Florida willing to do the same? Also another thing that most don't know is the grand opening saddle horses and flag horses each contractor that brings horses gets a flat fee and so much a mile if your big bend/flying five coming Ellensburg, Washington are they going to cover the extended cost?? These are all concerns that I know Shawn Davis will address he was instrumental in moving the finals to Vegas and he is one heck of a business man ... So I hope that the contestants look at the bigger picture I am all for more money but at what cost to the PRCA - and Stressmen you lost another large rodeo with Greely not signing there renewal so is this how our rodeo is going to go? This gives the American even more steam.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:13 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304 Location: Texas
I wonder what Vegas's offer compared to what it was already paying? Did it go up/down/stay the same? How much additional money would be going to the contestants if it moved to FL?
Plus, I'm sure the PRCA already considered the stock from Canada issue. FL has a couple of years to change that law.
And to the person saying the go-round wins only go up about $250/yr? Um...where'd that info come from? I remember distinctly when it was in the 13 thousand range and now it's in the 18 thousand range - and that wasn't 20 years ago.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:13 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 9:04 AM
This article answers some of ya'lls questions. Apparently the LVE is a non-profit organization, they are there to generate revenue for the city and the NFR generates a LOT.
Some of you are saying that you can't believe it's being moved to somewhere as NON-centrally located as FL (like Nevada is centrally located?). Well this board is predominantly people west of the MS river. There are a LOT of rodeo fans on the east of the MS who are thrilled about the possibility of it moving. My FB newsfeed is blown up with people talking about it.
Another thing, "The only thing Orlando has to offer is Disney" ???? That's like saying all Vegas has to offer is casinos. It's a stereotype. Vegas is very welcoming to the rodeo community and offers all those after shows that people love, and I'm sure that FL would too. FL has a nightlife with the clubs, but it also has a ton of family oriented things that Vegas is lacking. Some of you say you probably won't go if it moves, well they'll probably be drawing a new crowd anyway. Families that wouldn't take their little britches age kids before will now.
Exactly! It's crazy to assume that Osceola county will screw this up! For those that have never been there let me assure you it's not being ran by a bunch of idiots. Different than Vegas but just as "big time"
Posted 2013-12-16 9:13 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846 Location: Florida..
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 10:04 AM This article answers some of ya'lls questions. Apparently the LVE is a non-profit organization, they are there to generate revenue for the city and the NFR generates a LOT. http://twistedrodeo.com/2013/12/16/las-vegas-could-lose-a-great-thi... Some of you are saying that you can't believe it's being moved to somewhere as NON-centrally located as FL (like Nevada is centrally located?). Well this board is predominantly people west of the MS river. There are a LOT of rodeo fans on the east of the MS who are thrilled about the possibility of it moving. My FB newsfeed is blown up with people talking about it. Another thing, "The only thing Orlando has to offer is Disney" ???? That's like saying all Vegas has to offer is casinos. It's a stereotype. Vegas is very welcoming to the rodeo community and offers all those after shows that people love, and I'm sure that FL would too. FL has a nightlife with the clubs, but it also has a ton of family oriented things that Vegas is lacking. Some of you say you probably won't go if it moves, well they'll probably be drawing a new crowd anyway. Families that wouldn't take their little britches age kids before will now.
true.. .. I was againist it at first thinking it wouldnt have enough fun stuff besides the parks .. but there are tons.. Universal is all clubs out side on the boardwalk..so for the party animals.. also music venues.. there was water parks, 3 parks that take at least 2 days per park to see, the resorts are inside the parks area and high standard.POOLS to swim and alot are very cool not standard pools. romantic stuff.. and SAFE. no bums or beggers in that area.. of the parks.temps are warm.. Id still be concerned about the animals competing in the humidity or heat though, that to me is a concern and cost is higher. but its diffently family oriented and yet has adult fun as well.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:13 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 1488
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:38 AM
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 8:29 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:21 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
You need to keep in mind that alot of people who go out to Vegas during the nfr just go out to party and never go to the rodeo. And think about the demographics of the people who do go to the rodeo, alot of those people don't drink or gamble. I think you would be surprised at the amount of those people who would be happy to see it moved outta sin city. And into a more family friendly city. Having said that I think the people who are going to actually attend the rodeo will still go.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you weren't a business major.
I'll go out on another limb and bet money that I have owned/and ran more business than you ever have or will. Assuming that you have ever even owned one, which would be a big assumption, " Mr.Trump" lol
Posted 2013-12-16 9:15 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 7:04 AM This article answers some of ya'lls questions. Apparently the LVE is a non-profit organization, they are there to generate revenue for the city and the NFR generates a LOT. http://twistedrodeo.com/2013/12/16/las-vegas-could-lose-a-great-thi... Some of you are saying that you can't believe it's being moved to somewhere as NON-centrally located as FL (like Nevada is centrally located?). Well this board is predominantly people west of the MS river. There are a LOT of rodeo fans on the east of the MS who are thrilled about the possibility of it moving. My FB newsfeed is blown up with people talking about it. Another thing, "The only thing Orlando has to offer is Disney" ???? That's like saying all Vegas has to offer is casinos. It's a stereotype. Vegas is very welcoming to the rodeo community and offers all those after shows that people love, and I'm sure that FL would too. FL has a nightlife with the clubs, but it also has a ton of family oriented things that Vegas is lacking. Some of you say you probably won't go if it moves, well they'll probably be drawing a new crowd anyway. Families that wouldn't take their little britches age kids before will now.
I love children, raised 3, but there is nothing worse than listening to a screaming child thru the performance. Small children can not sit still for 2 1/2 hrs. Again, I like the adult theme Vegas has.
My FB is also blowing up on what a bad idea this is.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:16 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846 Location: Florida..
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 10:13 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:38 AM
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 8:29 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:21 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
You need to keep in mind that alot of people who go out to Vegas during the nfr just go out to party and never go to the rodeo. And think about the demographics of the people who do go to the rodeo, alot of those people don't drink or gamble. I think you would be surprised at the amount of those people who would be happy to see it moved outta sin city. And into a more family friendly city. Having said that I think the people who are going to actually attend the rodeo will still go.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you weren't a business major.
I'll go out on another limb and bet money that I have owned/and ran more business than you ever have or will. Assuming that you have ever even owned one, which would be a big assumption, " Mr.Trump" lol
Posted 2013-12-16 9:18 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 9:13 AM
I wonder what Vegas's offer compared to what it was already paying? Did it go up/down/stay the same? How much additional money would be going to the contestants if it moved to FL?
Plus, I'm sure the PRCA already considered the stock from Canada issue. FL has a couple of years to change that law.
And to the person saying the go-round wins only go up about $250/yr? Um...where'd that info come from? I remember distinctly when it was in the 13 thousand range and now it's in the 18 thousand range - and that wasn't 20 years ago.
From my understanding they haven't offered any more, saying they were already doing all they could. Which probably isn't true, but 4 million is alot more to come up with! So I just don't know if they'll ever match that.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:20 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846 Location: Florida..
justcruzin - 2013-12-16 10:15 AM
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 7:04 AM This article answers some of ya'lls questions. Apparently the LVE is a non-profit organization, they are there to generate revenue for the city and the NFR generates a LOT. http://twistedrodeo.com/2013/12/16/las-vegas-could-lose-a-great-thi... Some of you are saying that you can't believe it's being moved to somewhere as NON-centrally located as FL (like Nevada is centrally located?). Well this board is predominantly people west of the MS river. There are a LOT of rodeo fans on the east of the MS who are thrilled about the possibility of it moving. My FB newsfeed is blown up with people talking about it. Another thing, "The only thing Orlando has to offer is Disney" ???? That's like saying all Vegas has to offer is casinos. It's a stereotype. Vegas is very welcoming to the rodeo community and offers all those after shows that people love, and I'm sure that FL would too. FL has a nightlife with the clubs, but it also has a ton of family oriented things that Vegas is lacking. Some of you say you probably won't go if it moves, well they'll probably be drawing a new crowd anyway. Families that wouldn't take their little britches age kids before will now.
I love children, raised 3, but there is nothing worse than listening to a screaming child thru the performance. Small children can not sit still for 2 1/2 hrs. Again, I like the adult theme Vegas has.
My FB is also blowing up on what a bad idea this is.
good point to. cant they leave them with disneycare.the younger ones .. it would diffently be a game changer.. LOL
Posted 2013-12-16 9:21 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 9:13 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:38 AM
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 8:29 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:21 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
You need to keep in mind that alot of people who go out to Vegas during the nfr just go out to party and never go to the rodeo. And think about the demographics of the people who do go to the rodeo, alot of those people don't drink or gamble. I think you would be surprised at the amount of those people who would be happy to see it moved outta sin city. And into a more family friendly city. Having said that I think the people who are going to actually attend the rodeo will still go.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you weren't a business major.
I'll go out on another limb and bet money that I have owned/and ran more business than you ever have or will. Assuming that you have ever even owned one, which would be a big assumption, " Mr.Trump" lol
Posted 2013-12-16 9:23 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 1409
Vickie - 2013-12-16 6:29 AM I remember when the finals moved to Las Vegas, for sure we thought it was a bad move. Rodeo is family oriented and they want to move to "Sin City"! You can't get more family oriented than Orlando/Kissimmee area. Lots of stuff for kids to do, great hotels, clubs, restaurants, and you can drive 30 minutes and go to the beach. Plus we have a huge international airport, rail service, and after it is over spectators can go on a cruise.
I agree, In Vegas I really disliked someone giving my kids pornographic material on the street to invite them to their show!!
Posted 2013-12-16 9:26 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 9:13 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:38 AM
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 8:29 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:21 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:07 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-16 1:44 AM Charley Crawford posted this to his Face book page, thought you guys might like to read it: Ok people, all the talk about the NFR is going crazy! We all stood up before a board the other day and asked them not to sign the 10 year contract that Las Vegas offered us while we have other multiple offers for a lot more money! This was agreed upon by every contestant in the top 15 at the NFR!! You can't be mad at the PRCA for finally standing behind us!! This is the first time we have all come together in an effort to make the sport better! I'm sorry if some of you feel like it might mess up your one fun week in Vegas, but this is something us cowboys and cowgirls work for our entire lives! We sacrifice time away from family, travel all year with no guaranteed pay, put more money back in from our own pockets all year than any other professional athletes do. Most of the guys getting to the finals come there with so much debt from the efforts of trying to get there that year that their biggest hope is to win enough to start the next year off at even! Sometimes in order to make things better you have to have a change! And remember moving the finals is not necessarily what the cowboys want, but if Vegas is not willing to come to the plate then we do have way better offers! And keep in mind, Vegas does have the opportunity to counter offer. So if we don't go back there, that on them not us!
look, the pros at the top of the prca want to make more money and that is what the prca is about ......making money.......and honestly, after that condescending comment by charlie crawford about fan fun week, i think even less about the PRCA ...obviously rodeo fans don't fit into the equation any more......it's a fine move in the short term if they can generate more prize money but Kissimee is expecting the fans and income like showed up in vegas and hopefully more......a community can thorw all the money at an event that they want but if the return isn't what is expected, in 7 years they will be looking for somewhere else and vegas won't be there......PRCA is going to start to find out how the politics of professional sports works with this deal and they better bring in the money for the community or they will be out........starting to look no different than NFL, NBA, etc........
You need to keep in mind that alot of people who go out to Vegas during the nfr just go out to party and never go to the rodeo. And think about the demographics of the people who do go to the rodeo, alot of those people don't drink or gamble. I think you would be surprised at the amount of those people who would be happy to see it moved outta sin city. And into a more family friendly city. Having said that I think the people who are going to actually attend the rodeo will still go.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you weren't a business major.
I'll go out on another limb and bet money that I have owned/and ran more business than you ever have or will. Assuming that you have ever even owned one, which would be a big assumption, " Mr.Trump" lol
Oh, don't internet whip me sir.
Haha I'll tie one hand behind my back if you need me to!
Posted 2013-12-16 9:32 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Location: in the ozone
I personally do NOT like Vegas ... but I like that it is closer and less expensive to fly there - and that you can find rooms pretty reasonable. I wonder if FL will have places where you can watch it on big screen too? (someone may have already addressed this & I missed it). We enjoy watching it that way as well since we can't afford tickets for every night
Posted 2013-12-16 9:34 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
Being someone that has no children, I doubt I would ever go to the NFR if it became a "family" venture. I'm sorry, but I'm not really a kid person... and additionally I'd be suprised if the cost of going would not be significantly more (for a fan to attend via flight, hotel, etc). That moves "going to the NFR" from my bucket list to my list of "I would never's"...and I'm sure I'm not alone
I think the humidity would def be an issue for stock...
Personally I'd prefer it to stay in Vegas. I understand how the contestants want it to go where the money is, but I think in the long run it would not be as good for the PRCA to move as some are thinking...
of course, I'm no rodeo person or insider... this is just my uneducated opinion
Posted 2013-12-16 9:36 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846 Location: Florida..
alot say they wont go to florida but havent gone to vegas either..But agree... the cost wILL be more.. I dont know how much hotels are there but roughly 80-120 for a hotel per night 20 minutes from disney and on kingdom area could run 250 and Up a night.estimates
Posted 2013-12-16 9:37 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
I have NOT read all of the posts on here, but I really would not mind if it moved to FL. My reasons are selfish though...
It is because it would be closer to me! I would so be going! It has always been on my bucket list, but with it being in Vegas would probably not be the case all the time.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:42 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 2097 Location: Deep South
justcruzin - 2013-12-16 9:15 AM
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 7:04 AM This article answers some of ya'lls questions. Apparently the LVE is a non-profit organization, they are there to generate revenue for the city and the NFR generates a LOT. http://twistedrodeo.com/2013/12/16/las-vegas-could-lose-a-great-thi... Some of you are saying that you can't believe it's being moved to somewhere as NON-centrally located as FL (like Nevada is centrally located?). Well this board is predominantly people west of the MS river. There are a LOT of rodeo fans on the east of the MS who are thrilled about the possibility of it moving. My FB newsfeed is blown up with people talking about it. Another thing, "The only thing Orlando has to offer is Disney" ???? That's like saying all Vegas has to offer is casinos. It's a stereotype. Vegas is very welcoming to the rodeo community and offers all those after shows that people love, and I'm sure that FL would too. FL has a nightlife with the clubs, but it also has a ton of family oriented things that Vegas is lacking. Some of you say you probably won't go if it moves, well they'll probably be drawing a new crowd anyway. Families that wouldn't take their little britches age kids before will now.
I love children, raised 3, but there is nothing worse than listening to a screaming child thru the performance. Small children can not sit still for 2 1/2 hrs. Again, I like the adult theme Vegas has.
My FB is also blowing up on what a bad idea this is.
Anyone who knows me would tell you I'm the number one believer in that statement!
I was thinking more along the lines of 6 and up or so..? I know we went one year and my cousin was only about 8 or 9 at the time, there just wasn't anything for her to do. She wasn't old enough to get in to any of the shows definitely no clubs or bars, they were strict about her not being anywhere near the slot machines. I think we finally found a 3D movie to take her to and she enjoyed that, but she can see those at home. Besides the rodeo and a little bit of shopping and eating out, that's all she did.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:44 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Regular
Posts: 66
I sure hope you guys are joking about the live stock and horses dying. I live here my horses have winter coats just as thick as northern horses and ya they have never died. Do you guys really think we don't rodeo here at all? We are running barrels and steers in the summer and its fine. I don't care where the NFR gets moved to I will fly where ever it is :)
Posted 2013-12-16 9:45 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 433 Location: North Central South Dakota, west of the Might Mo
I am personally happy that contestants could see an increase in prize money. I am not sure Orlando is the venue I would select. I am sure the Seminole tribe is somehow figuring in the dealings of this. There is plenty of gambling, adult activities within a stones throw of Orlando.
This is my take on Vegas however...I went to 10+ days of NFR for four years helping my roommates family who are stock contractors. That has been over 15 years ago, and I really still don't have much desire to go to Vegas. I am not a big time shopper, and can only stomach so much gambling. And my old body can only take so much partying and staying up all night! We are a rodeo FAMILY. Even as our daughter gets older, there is not a darn thing for them to do in Vegas...it would be easier to take her now because she's 2 coming 3. As kids get older, my observation is it is even worse because they are drawn to the bright lights, but can't play, etc. I know people say you should leave their kids home. We are a ranching family, and we have always attended rodeos as a family. If we leave our daughter home, we add work to another member of our ranching family.
A good friend of mine qualified for the NFR this year. She has two younger boys. Her sons didn't come to Vegas until about the last weekend. I am sure it is partially for the reasons mentioned above. Maybe they wouldn't come until the last weekend in a more family friendly venue either. I have not asked her.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:46 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
Bibliafarm - 2013-12-16 9:36 AM alot say they wont go to florida but havent gone to vegas either..But agree... the cost wILL be more.. I dont know how much hotels are there but roughly 80-120 for a hotel per night 20 minutes from disney and on kingdom area could run 250 and Up a night.estimates
I've been to FL. I was a kid, and I had fun.
I just don't enjoy hoardes of screaming children, and I'm guessing there would be more of those in FL than in Vegas. Plus, I'd like to go to Vegas anyway (during the NFR or otherwise), whereas I have no desire to visit the orlando area.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:51 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 2097 Location: Deep South
Bibliafarm - 2013-12-16 9:13 AM
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 10:04 AM This article answers some of ya'lls questions. Apparently the LVE is a non-profit organization, they are there to generate revenue for the city and the NFR generates a LOT. http://twistedrodeo.com/2013/12/16/las-vegas-could-lose-a-great-thi... Some of you are saying that you can't believe it's being moved to somewhere as NON-centrally located as FL (like Nevada is centrally located?). Well this board is predominantly people west of the MS river. There are a LOT of rodeo fans on the east of the MS who are thrilled about the possibility of it moving. My FB newsfeed is blown up with people talking about it. Another thing, "The only thing Orlando has to offer is Disney" ???? That's like saying all Vegas has to offer is casinos. It's a stereotype. Vegas is very welcoming to the rodeo community and offers all those after shows that people love, and I'm sure that FL would too. FL has a nightlife with the clubs, but it also has a ton of family oriented things that Vegas is lacking. Some of you say you probably won't go if it moves, well they'll probably be drawing a new crowd anyway. Families that wouldn't take their little britches age kids before will now.
true.. .. I was againist it at first thinking it wouldnt have enough fun stuff besides the parks .. but there are tons.. Universal is all clubs out side on the boardwalk..so for the party animals.. also music venues.. there was water parks, 3 parks that take at least 2 days per park to see, the resorts are inside the parks area and high standard.POOLS to swim and alot are very cool not standard pools. romantic stuff.. and SAFE. no bums or beggers in that area.. of the parks.temps are warm.. Id still be concerned about the animals competing in the humidity or heat though, that to me is a concern and cost is higher. but its diffently family oriented and yet has adult fun as well.
I was concerned about this also, but there's plenty of pros that come to the FL pro rodeos during the regular season. This is copied from the wpra website results page. The weren't worried about the climate then.
KISSIMMEE, FL 10/5/2013 - Champions Challenge 1. MARY WALKER16.87 $4,000.00 2. FALLON TAYLOR 16.92 $3,000.00 3. SAMMI BESSERT 16.99 $2,000.00 4. BRITTANY POZZI 17.05 $1,000.00
Posted 2013-12-16 9:51 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846 Location: Florida..
barrelracer1413 - 2013-12-16 10:44 AM I sure hope you guys are joking about the live stock and horses dying. I live here my horses have winter coats just as thick as northern horses and ya they have never died. Do you guys really think we don't rodeo here at all? We are running barrels and steers in the summer and its fine. I don't care where the NFR gets moved to I will fly where ever it is :)
i didnt mean literally!!LOL it will be a issue for northerners..10 degrees is alot differant then 80.. I didnt mean literally. tongue in cheek.yes I realize pros come.. dont forget the other competitors.. good grief
Posted 2013-12-16 9:53 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935 Location: Texas
At the current ticket prices, I could not imagine buying one for a child that is not big enough to enjoy the rodeo. Just because it would be in a more family friendly location does not mean that kids are going to invade the rodeo perfs.
Posted 2013-12-16 9:54 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935 Location: Texas
At the current ticket prices, I could not imagine buying one for a child that is not big enough to enjoy the rodeo. Just because it would be in a more family friendly location does not mean that kids are going to invade the rodeo perfs.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:02 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Regular
Posts: 66
Lol ok good.. I'm not sure if Florida is the best choice but Vegas gets old there's only so much to do before your bored until night comes to watch the rodeo. Unless you have a unlimited amount of money then you can just shop all day
Posted 2013-12-16 10:05 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:33 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 8:28 AM I'd be very surprised if Vegas doesn't have a very attractive counter offer.
I don't kno......I thought that to. But go on the Internet and read about it. This thing has already progressed farther than what I would have thought. Honestly. It sounds like to me it's just formality of "signing the papers" now unless Las Vegas does something pretty quick. But your talking about a pretty big disparity in dollars. So I'm not sure they will pony it up.
LVE is a puppet. There are some shrewd business men pulling the strings. I would say expect the negotiations to last the full 90 days but I don't know how shrewd the PRCA negotiators are.
When I left Vegas in 2002, we had estimated the nongaming economic impact of the NFR around $75 Million. $4 million is a drop in the bucket.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:06 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
Bibliafarm - 2013-12-16 9:51 AM
barrelracer1413 - 2013-12-16 10:44 AM I sure hope you guys are joking about the live stock and horses dying. I live here my horses have winter coats just as thick as northern horses and ya they have never died. Do you guys really think we don't rodeo here at all? We are running barrels and steers in the summer and its fine. I don't care where the NFR gets moved to I will fly where ever it is :)
i didnt mean literally!!LOL it will be a issue for northerners..10 degrees is alot differant then 80.. I didnt mean literally. tongue in cheek.yes I realize pros come.. dont forget the other competitors.. good grief
Exactly... it was in the teens all week in the midwest... FL was in the 80s
It is very dry here right now, and FL is very humid.
I know when I haul in to a heated barn during the winter (where it is like 50 inside, 30 or less outside), my horse is feeling less than great that first night adapting to the change in temps. I could imagine the livestock having some issues. Of course many would haul in early so the horses could acclimate, but it's a big difference this time of year.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:12 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
This explains it more.
Another WNFR article:
National Rodeo Finals and a new 24,000-seat arena could be coming to Kissimmee/Osceola County Posted on Sunday, December 15, 2013 at 2:16 pm
Osceola News-Gazette photo/Andrew Sullivan Osceola County commissioners met Sunday, Dec. 15 in a special session to discuss a proposal to bring the PRCA rodeo finals and other ancillary events to Osceola for at least the next 10 years. Above, commission chairman Fred Hawkins Jr. signs into effect a 90-day proposal to finalize the agreement between the county and the PRCA.
By Peter Covino
Arts & Entertainment Editor
In an historic Sunday meeting of the Osceola County Commission, commissioners agreed today to begin the process that would bring the National Finals Rodeo, as well as build a new 24,000-seat arena, to Osceola County.
Commissioners voted 5-0 at the special meeting and signed a “memorandum of understanding” between the county, the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association and American Music Resort, to set into a motion a possible agreement to bring the rodeo finals to Kissimmee for a minimum of 10 years.
The rodeo is one of the biggest annual events in Las Vegas and sells out every year, said Osceola County Manager Don Fisher, bringing in $65 million in revenue to that city each year.
The rodeo could be part of a larger agreement with American Music Resort Properties. AMR has proposed the development of a $1.5 billion AMR project that will include hotels, retail space, conference centers, restaurants and multiple performance venues.
AMR has leased a 30-acre site for the project.
That part of the proposal was not discussed at the Sunday meeting by the commission.
Under the proposed agreement the county will guarantee to provide a 24,000-seat enclosed arena ready for occupancy no later than October 15, 2016. During the time the Osceola County facility is under construction, the 2015 rodeo finals would be held at the Amway Center in Orlando.
The agreement would have a nominal term of 20 years, with either the county or the PRCA able to leave the agreement after 10. Both sides will have 90 days to finalize the agreement.
The county will guarantee it will provide $16 million annually to the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association (PRCA) for purse money and administrative costs. The county will receive ticket and concession revenue only to the point that it recoups the guaranty. Excess revenue would be split between the PRCA and American Music Resort.
The new arena would be built near the Gaylord Palms Resort and Convention Center, Fisher said.
Funding would come from the county’s resort motel/hotel bed tax.
In addition to the rodeo, the PRCA also would hold several additional events in the county, including Cowboy Christmas, Cowboy FanFest and the Miss Rodeo America Pageant.
The PRCA announced the proposal simultaneously at their own meeting today as well.
The commission was unanimous in its praise for the proposal, which could have significant impact on the area’s economy and would be a major shot in the arm to the county’s rodeo and cowboy heritage.
“This is an historic proposal” for Osceola County, County Commission Chairman Fred Hawkins Jr. said. “I’m pro-rodeo and a Silver Spurs member,” and (PRCA) is a tremendous organization.”
Commissioner Frank Attkisson said it is a win situation for the PRCA as well.
“We have 90 million visitors a year,” to Central Florida, and rodeo visitors will have so many more opportunities here with theme parks such as Disney World, he said. “You can’t do that in Vegas.”
Hawkins called it a perfect fit for the rodeo and the county with its rich cattle ranching history.
“It’s the World Series and the Super Bowl,” Attkisson said.
“It will put Osceola County on the map as a tourist destination,” County Commissioner Mike Harford said.
Area tourism officials shared that enthusiasm.
“It’s a game changer for us,” said Mark Miller, chairman of the W. U.S. 192 Redevelopment Authority. “I couldn’t be happier.” It will mean many business opportunities for development in the west end of the county.
“Wow,” said Kriss Titus, executive director of the Kissimmee Tourism Education Association. “The tourism industry will be thrilled about this. It is the best thing for tourism ever.”
County commissioners appeared to be on a fast track to get the ball rolling on the project.
Attkisson proposed getting PRCA officials here in January to go over details and maybe finalizing a deal 30 days after that. Ideally, the commission could make the official announcement at the annual Silver Spurs Rodeo in February.
Other financial details in the proposal include:
Upon completion, the county will acquire the arena building for a purchase price of $50 million. The purchase price will consist $34 million of currently available tourism development taxes, $8 million of tourism development taxes to be appropriated in 2014-15 and $8 million of tourist development taxes for 2015-16.
The National Finals Rodeo is held over a 15-day period usually in December or late November with a minimum average general seating ticket cost of $71.
Under the proposal, Osceola Heritage Park will be made available to the PCRA for staging and peripheral events and the county also would designate each December as National Finals Rodeo Month and also hold a rodeo day parade.
The County Manager thanked both the city of Orlando and the Orlando Magic for their help in getting the proposal this far. The Magic have agreed to submit a blackout request for games to the NBA to bring the rodeo finals to Orlando at the Amway Center for the first year of the agreement (while the new arena is under construction
Posted 2013-12-16 10:12 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
TXBO - 2013-12-16 10:05 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:33 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 8:28 AM I'd be very surprised if Vegas doesn't have a very attractive counter offer.
I don't kno......I thought that to. But go on the Internet and read about it. This thing has already progressed farther than what I would have thought. Honestly. It sounds like to me it's just formality of "signing the papers" now unless Las Vegas does something pretty quick. But your talking about a pretty big disparity in dollars. So I'm not sure they will pony it up.
LVE is a puppet. There are some shrewd business men pulling the strings. I would say expect the negotiations to last the full 90 days but I don't know how shrewd the PRCA negotiators are.
When I left Vegas in 2002, we had estimated the nongaming economic impact of the NFR around $75 Million. $4 million is a drop in the bucket.
I just read that last year they estimated it to be 90 million.
I agree it is a drop in the bucket, but how much leeway do they have as far as adding money? And I read another deal that said Orlando is wanting to have it sewed by feb so they can make a big announcement at their silver spurs rodeo. It said they took a vote on a live video feed in front of the prca yesterday and all seven of their commissioners voted to move forward on this.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:21 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
The number of people who take their kids to the NFR is miniscule compared to those that dont. There is something to be said for Vegas offering an adult recess!Alot of people DONT want to take their kids and it is really difficult to Christmas shop with your kids in tow.
Also, yes more money would be great, BUT, Really now, Florida is like the edge of the earth. Can you imagine the haul there? Yes, Vegas is much more centrally located then Florida. ALOT easier haul for 90% of the contestants AND stock contractors then Florida.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:24 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country
The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:33 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526 Location: My Own Little World
Ok, here's my take, it says that this will benefit the PRCA members by the bigger prize money. Well, I'm all for that BUT the article says that the $16 million will go to prize money AND PRCA administrative costs. So, the way I read that, it doesn't really say the boost in money will really reach the contestants pockets. Also, just how will Kissimmee FL have the local infrastructure to support the influx of people? Restaurants, gas stations, hotels, taxis, proximity to a major airport? And even though I have kids of my own, NFR is not a place I would really want to be taking my little ones. It's an older persons event. My teens enjoy going. Even if it were in Kissimmee, what would you do with your little ones? While the NFR is here in Vegas there's SO much going on; NASCAR Fan Week, Country Music Awards, WSTR,Bad Habits Ropng, Hork Dog Roping, 7 large shopping Venues, performance horse auctions, AND all the free entertainment you could want. If you have an under 21 set, there really is plenty to do as well. I think FL is a ggreat cowboy state but the PRCA had better do the LARGEST marketing campaign EVER to get a new spectator base. (I also think moving televised coverage to CBSsports is a shaky move) JMO
Posted 2013-12-16 10:35 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 10:12 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 10:05 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:33 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 8:28 AM I'd be very surprised if Vegas doesn't have a very attractive counter offer.
I don't kno......I thought that to. But go on the Internet and read about it. This thing has already progressed farther than what I would have thought. Honestly. It sounds like to me it's just formality of "signing the papers" now unless Las Vegas does something pretty quick. But your talking about a pretty big disparity in dollars. So I'm not sure they will pony it up.
LVE is a puppet. There are some shrewd business men pulling the strings. I would say expect the negotiations to last the full 90 days but I don't know how shrewd the PRCA negotiators are.
When I left Vegas in 2002, we had estimated the nongaming economic impact of the NFR around $75 Million. $4 million is a drop in the bucket.
I just read that last year they estimated it to be 90 million. I agree it is a drop in the bucket, but how much leeway do they have as far as adding money? And I read another deal that said Orlando is wanting to have it sewed by feb so they can make a big announcement at their silver spurs rodeo. It said they took a vote on a live video feed in front of the prca yesterday and all seven of their commissioners voted to move forward on this.
They have all the leeway in the world. Again the nongaming impact is also a drop in the bucket to the real impact. Average gaming revenue per day for the "big 23" on the strip is about $500,000.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:37 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:40 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 733
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-17 7:13 AM
I wonder what Vegas's offer compared to what it was already paying? Did it go up/down/stay the same? How much additional money would be going to the contestants if it moved to FL?
Plus, I'm sure the PRCA already considered the stock from Canada issue. FL has a couple of years to change that law.
And to the person saying the go-round wins only go up about $250/yr? Um...where'd that info come from? I remember distinctly when it was in the 13 thousand range and now it's in the 18 thousand range - and that wasn't 20 years ago.
Well I just speculating but going off of numbers put out in the articles by Vegas and Orlando I think Vegas offered $3mil less than they have been paying. In the Orlando article it said that Vegas pays $15 mil and Orlando is offering $16 mil ( I am guessing that they are using the amount Vegas is currently paying as they prob do not know what they offered, or hadn't known when the article was written). In the Vegas Article it said that Orlando is offering $4mil more than Vegas is offering.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:40 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846 Location: Florida..
rodeorun68 - 2013-12-16 11:33 AM Ok, here's my take, it says that this will benefit the PRCA members by the bigger prize money. Well, I'm all for that BUT the article says that the $16 million will go to prize money AND PRCA administrative costs. So, the way I read that, it doesn't really say the boost in money will really reach the contestants pockets. Also, just how will Kissimmee FL have the local infrastructure to support the influx of people? Restaurants, gas stations, hotels, taxis, proximity to a major airport? And even though I have kids of my own, NFR is not a place I would really want to be taking my little ones. It's an older persons event. My teens enjoy going. Even if it were in Kissimmee, what would you do with your little ones? While the NFR is here in Vegas there's SO much going on; NASCAR Fan Week, Country Music Awards, WSTR,Bad Habits Ropng, Hork Dog Roping, 7 large shopping Venues, performance horse auctions, AND all the free entertainment you could want. If you have an under 21 set, there really is plenty to do as well. I think FL is a ggreat cowboy state but the PRCA had better do the LARGEST marketing campaign EVER to get a new spectator base. (I also think moving televised coverage to CBSsports is a shaky move) JMO
There is plenty of all that.. believe me.. it has grown by leaps and bounds.. truly has.. it has More to offer in that aspect . it is its own world there now.. within a city.. clean and safe to..
Posted 2013-12-16 10:41 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Location: Texas
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM
The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
You might want to do a little research. This isn't about the PRCA being greedy. This is about the PRCA listening to its membership and doing what they want. Everyone makes a pretty darn good living off of the backs of the cowboys out in Vegas off of the NFR. Casino's, vendors at the trade shows, stock contractors, but yet the ones who have put out the most during the year are offered the least. I would be willing to bet that over 50% of the timed event contestants run up in the red at the end of the year. But yet you expect them to just continue to take the short end of the stick. If you believe in the rodeo cowboy, then you should be standing behind them and agreeing that they deserve to be paid better.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:42 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 1488
TXBO - 2013-12-16 10:37 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:44 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
EnterUp - 2013-12-16 10:41 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
You might want to do a little research. This isn't about the PRCA being greedy. This is about the PRCA listening to its membership and doing what they want. Everyone makes a pretty darn good living off of the backs of the cowboys out in Vegas off of the NFR. Casino's, vendors at the trade shows, stock contractors, but yet the ones who have put out the most during the year are offered the least. I would be willing to bet that over 50% of the timed event contestants run up in the red at the end of the year. But yet you expect them to just continue to take the short end of the stick. If you believe in the rodeo cowboy, then you should be standing behind them and agreeing that they deserve to be paid better.
the only reason they get paid is because there are enough fans that wanna see them in that setting......which makes it profitable for a city to make a bid based on revenue.....the move won't be as cost friendly to fans as vegas was but the PRCA is at least locked into ten years of higher payouts.....supposedly.....
Posted 2013-12-16 10:48 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Chairman of the BHW Armadillo Roast
Posts: 4390 Location: In the real world
I think this is a FABULOUS idea! I love the idea of the NFR moving to Florida. And I am speaking as someone who does travel to Las Vegas to attend the NFR.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:51 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304 Location: Texas
TXBO - 2013-12-16 10:35 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 10:12 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 10:05 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:33 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 8:28 AM I'd be very surprised if Vegas doesn't have a very attractive counter offer.
I don't kno......I thought that to. But go on the Internet and read about it. This thing has already progressed farther than what I would have thought. Honestly. It sounds like to me it's just formality of "signing the papers" now unless Las Vegas does something pretty quick. But your talking about a pretty big disparity in dollars. So I'm not sure they will pony it up.
LVE is a puppet. There are some shrewd business men pulling the strings. I would say expect the negotiations to last the full 90 days but I don't know how shrewd the PRCA negotiators are.
When I left Vegas in 2002, we had estimated the nongaming economic impact of the NFR around $75 Million. $4 million is a drop in the bucket.
I just read that last year they estimated it to be 90 million. I agree it is a drop in the bucket, but how much leeway do they have as far as adding money? And I read another deal that said Orlando is wanting to have it sewed by feb so they can make a big announcement at their silver spurs rodeo. It said they took a vote on a live video feed in front of the prca yesterday and all seven of their commissioners voted to move forward on this.
They have all the leeway in the world. Again the nongaming impact is also a drop in the bucket to the real impact. Average gaming revenue per day for the "big 23" on the strip is about $500,000.
Only $500,000/day in revenue (not profit)? Over 10 days, that's only $5 million (and TX I know you know this, but remember people, that's NOT PROFIT) more.
And $4 million *is* a decent amount when you're talking about $75 million. Like I said before, I wonder what the $4 million would be in terms of an increase in costs to LVE.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:54 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848 Location: Broxton, Ga
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-15 11:40 AM
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-17 7:13 AM I wonder what Vegas's offer compared to what it was already paying? Did it go up/down/stay the same? How much additional money would be going to the contestants if it moved to FL?
Plus, I'm sure the PRCA already considered the stock from Canada issue. FL has a couple of years to change that law.
And to the person saying the go-round wins only go up about $250/yr? Um...where'd that info come from? I remember distinctly when it was in the 13 thousand range and now it's in the 18 thousand range - and that wasn't 20 years ago.
Well I just speculating but going off of numbers put out in the articles by Vegas and Orlando I think Vegas offered $3mil less than they have been paying. In the Orlando article it said that Vegas pays $15 mil and Orlando is offering $16 mil ( I am guessing that they are using the amount Vegas is currently paying as they prob do not know what they offered, or hadn't known when the article was written). In the Vegas Article it said that Orlando is offering $4mil more than Vegas is offering.
Similar to what I read also..........from facebook.....disclaimer.....from another page not directly to me
I got this from Kathi Myers, a long time friend of the family - wife to Bull Riding Champion Jimmie Myers - was /is on WPRA board. So her info is more solid in my opinion since she is close to the real sources.
PRCA feels the NFR is worth more than Las Vegas is wanting to pay to keep it. The contract with LVE is done following next year's NFR. PRCA has an offer from Osceola Country, FL to move it there. The PRCA Board voted today to reject the Las Vegas offer of a $4million raise to the $10 million it pays them now. They have been offered $16 million to move it to Kissimmee and Osceola County is promising to build a new arena, etc. by 2016. The 2015 event will be held in Orlando until the new facility is done. You can find a press release from the Osceola News-Gazette. You can also read Las Vegas' comment by searching FB for NFR Experience.
Posted 2013-12-16 10:56 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577 Location: Prosser, WA
Ethel - 2013-12-15 7:42 PM
CheckItOut - 2013-12-15 9:35 PM Pump the breaks... and realize this press release was issued by the Las Vegas Event's coordinator, not the PRCA. Before you go bashing the PRCA, the truth is a lot different than what you might think. Las Vegas low balled us and we declined, this is the PRCA standing up for it's members! This is not over and for the revenue that the NFR brings to Vegas for 2 weeks in December, their low ball offer was offensive. They think we need them, but they need us more. Stand up for the cowboys. Don't jump to conclusions or fall for some fancy written social media ploy to get people riled up.
Also, from the time the NFR left OKC to today, the prize money to win a go round at the Finals has only increased around $250.00 a year since it moved to Vegas.. That's not really stepping it up a whole lot..
If LVE has added so little per year then if seems to me like most regular season rodeos have added even less over the years. Quite a few contestants doubled their season earnings while at the NFR. Was that even possible 20 years ago?
Posted 2013-12-16 11:03 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304 Location: Texas
CJE - 2013-12-16 10:54 AM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-15 11:40 AM
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-17 7:13 AM I wonder what Vegas's offer compared to what it was already paying? Did it go up/down/stay the same? How much additional money would be going to the contestants if it moved to FL?
Plus, I'm sure the PRCA already considered the stock from Canada issue. FL has a couple of years to change that law.
And to the person saying the go-round wins only go up about $250/yr? Um...where'd that info come from? I remember distinctly when it was in the 13 thousand range and now it's in the 18 thousand range - and that wasn't 20 years ago.
Well I just speculating but going off of numbers put out in the articles by Vegas and Orlando I think Vegas offered $3mil less than they have been paying. In the Orlando article it said that Vegas pays $15 mil and Orlando is offering $16 mil ( I am guessing that they are using the amount Vegas is currently paying as they prob do not know what they offered, or hadn't known when the article was written). In the Vegas Article it said that Orlando is offering $4mil more than Vegas is offering.
Similar to what I read also..........from facebook.....disclaimer.....from another page not directly to me
I got this from Kathi Myers, a long time friend of the family - wife to Bull Riding Champion Jimmie Myers - was /is on WPRA board. So her info is more solid in my opinion since she is close to the real sources.
PRCA feels the NFR is worth more than Las Vegas is wanting to pay to keep it. The contract with LVE is done following next year's NFR. PRCA has an offer from Osceola Country, FL to move it there. The PRCA Board voted today to reject the Las Vegas offer of a $4million raise to the $10 million it pays them now. They have been offered $16 million to move it to Kissimmee and Osceola County is promising to build a new arena, etc. by 2016. The 2015 event will be held in Orlando until the new facility is done. You can find a press release from the Osceola News-Gazette. You can also read Las Vegas' comment by searching FB for NFR Experience.
Actually, that reads like Vegas is offering 4 MORE MILLION bucks (40% increase) than it has been to stay in Vegas. That would still be a huge payday increase for the contestants.
Posted 2013-12-16 11:06 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712 Location: That part of Texas
This is what makes me laugh the most (as taken from the press release):
Christenson said NFR fans will have to pay about 40 percent more for tickets in central Florida than they have paid for the 10 days of rodeo at the sold-out Thomas &Mack Center at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
The average NFR ticket is about $75 each for a lower bowl seat and about $55 for an upper bowl seat, Christenson said.
I don't know what world this guy is living in but I know I haven't been paying $75 for a lower-level seat or even $55 for the upper (but we come late and take what we can get). I'm lucky if we can find lower level seating and pay $150-250 a ticket if we can find them.
So please, I would love to pay $105 a ticket and actually know that I'm going to get to watch the rodeo at that price and without having to do some back room deal with a guy in Vegas just to get my hands on decent seats. That's why so many people watch it from the casinos because it's hard to actually get a ticket. I know I don't like flying 4 hours (or driving 15 hours) to go to a rodeo to watch it on a screen but you do what you have to do.
I've also seen a lot my friends say they won't go if it's in Florida. All I can say is more beach for me my friends. I'd love to go to the NFR and come back with a tan. I'd miss Vegas but I'd still go wherever they have it.
Posted 2013-12-16 11:11 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart
Red Raider - 2013-12-16 9:06 AM This is what makes me laugh the most (as taken from the press release):
Christenson said NFR fans will have to pay about 40 percent more for tickets in central Florida than they have paid for the 10 days of rodeo at the sold-out Thomas &Mack Center at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
The average NFR ticket is about $75 each for a lower bowl seat and about $55 for an upper bowl seat, Christenson said.
I don't know what world this guy is living in but I know I haven't been paying $75 for a lower-level seat or even $55 for the upper (but we come late and take what we can get). I'm lucky if we can find lower level seating and pay $150-250 a ticket if we can find them.
So please, I would love to pay $105 a ticket and actually know that I'm going to get to watch the rodeo at that price and without having to do some back room deal with a guy in Vegas just to get my hands on decent seats. That's why so many people watch it from the casinos because it's hard to actually get a ticket. I know I don't like flying 4 hours (or driving 15 hours) to go to a rodeo to watch it on a screen but you do what you have to do.
I've also seen a lot my friends say they won't go if it's in Florida. All I can say is more beach for me my friends. I'd love to go to the NFR and come back with a tan. I'd miss Vegas but I'd still go wherever they have it.
Lol, and you dont think those scalpers are alive and well in Fl? Those 105.00 tickets just went to 300.00. Or more.
Posted 2013-12-16 11:12 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 2097 Location: Deep South
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
But Sherry is not "most people" she is a professional athlete. And our sports' professional athletes don't make a fraction of what other sports' professional athletes make. How could any true fan of rodeo see our elite competitiors making more money as a bad thing?
Posted 2013-12-16 11:14 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 1488
It seems that many of you fine folks are missing one very important aspect of this debate.
The National Finals Rodeo is almost 100% fan driven revenue. There are not the crazy big TV contracts like the other professional sports, there is not HUGE product advertising support(wrangler and dodge excluded) that the other pro sports demand.
What makes the NFR attractive for these venues is people, and I have a very hard time believe that there will be as many actual people that will show up in Kissimme or Orlando or Dallas or anywhere else as do in Vegas. And without bodies paying actually american dollars to generate revenue there is nothing to pass on to the RCA
I still believe this is posturing and negotiations but again, we will see when it's all said and done.
Posted 2013-12-16 11:15 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 11:12 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
But Sherry is not "most people" she is a professional athlete. And our sports' professional athletes don't make a fraction of what other sports' professional athletes make. How could any true fan of rodeo see our elite competitiors making more money as a bad thing?
it's a bad thing if it's too costly to get the numbers of fans it takes to make it viable.......over the long term....if this doesn't work in FL, they will be taking a pay cut in 10 years......so this could really affect younger PRCA members and future members...
Posted 2013-12-16 11:18 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 1488
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 11:15 AM
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 11:12 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
But Sherry is not "most people" she is a professional athlete. And our sports' professional athletes don't make a fraction of what other sports' professional athletes make. How could any true fan of rodeo see our elite competitiors making more money as a bad thing?
it's a bad thing if it's too costly to get the numbers of fans it takes to make it viable.......over the long term....if this doesn't work in FL, they will be taking a pay cut in 10 years......so this could really affect younger PRCA members and future members...
If they do this I sort of look at is a the PRCA going all in on Pocket Ladies
They hold some pretty good cards, but if they guess wrong it will be the end of the Organization. Vegas won't loose that revenue so if they leave, it's going to be replaced and if the new venue can't hold the people they will go back to vegas, and the money will follow, as will the contestants.
Posted 2013-12-16 11:23 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 850 Location: Bluffdale UT
CheckItOut - 2013-12-15 8:35 PM Pump the breaks... and realize this press release was issued by the Las Vegas Event's coordinator, not the PRCA. Before you go bashing the PRCA, the truth is a lot different than what you might think. Las Vegas low balled us and we declined, this is the PRCA standing up for it's members! This is not over and for the revenue that the NFR brings to Vegas for 2 weeks in December, their low ball offer was offensive. They think we need them, but they need us more. Stand up for the cowboys. Don't jump to conclusions or fall for some fancy written social media ploy to get people riled up.
With no official word about this from the PRCA, we can only conclude from what's been published in writing at this point. Advocates, such as you, representing the PRCA say this is all in consideration of the contestants.
I have two questions: Where is the loyalty to the sponsors and fans? How much money do the contestants need?
As a fan that has attended the NFR in Las Vegas for the last 20 years, from the outside looking in - isn't a $60,000 per go, per event payoff enough?
Posted 2013-12-16 11:25 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Veteran
Posts: 133
Bibliafarm - 2013-12-15 8:21 PM The livestock and horses will die .. in the heat here.. its winter but not cold down south. its clearly in the 80's.. coming from northern states with their winter coats and acclimated to cold.. it will be very hard on them here.. bad decision .. stay in cold climates.
Posted 2013-12-16 11:30 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 1488
syoung - 2013-12-16 11:23 AM
CheckItOut - 2013-12-15 8:35 PM Pump the breaks... and realize this press release was issued by the Las Vegas Event's coordinator, not the PRCA. Before you go bashing the PRCA, the truth is a lot different than what you might think. Las Vegas low balled us and we declined, this is the PRCA standing up for it's members! This is not over and for the revenue that the NFR brings to Vegas for 2 weeks in December, their low ball offer was offensive. They think we need them, but they need us more. Stand up for the cowboys. Don't jump to conclusions or fall for some fancy written social media ploy to get people riled up.
With no official word about this from the PRCA, we can only conclude from what's been published in writing at this point. Advocates, such as you, representing the PRCA say this is all in consideration of the contestants.
I have two questions: Where is the loyalty to the sponsors and fans? How much money do the contestants need?
As a fan that has attended the NFR in Las Vegas for the last 20 years, from the outside looking in - isn't a $60,000 per go, per event payoff enough?
Posted 2013-12-16 11:30 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708 Location: Colorado
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 11:15 AM
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 11:12 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
But Sherry is not "most people" she is a professional athlete. And our sports' professional athletes don't make a fraction of what other sports' professional athletes make. How could any true fan of rodeo see our elite competitiors making more money as a bad thing?
it's a bad thing if it's too costly to get the numbers of fans it takes to make it viable.......over the long term....if this doesn't work in FL, they will be taking a pay cut in 10 years......so this could really affect younger PRCA members and future members...
Yeppers. This is all about fan base. Or should be.
A ten year contract gives the PRCA no way out if this does not work. At least one if not two years of a temporary arena doesn't make "good ground" a priority. How many actual rooms are available in that area during Dec.? Orlando is pretty darn expnsive at Christmas time. Air fare to Vegas is cheap. Not so much to Orlando.
The last time a Commisioner sold off television rights to a "sports venue" and started trying to compare the money made by contestants to the other major sports he darned near bankrupted the PRCA. Hope the current board takes a look at history and does not repeat the mistakes that were made. I seriously doubt the PRCA could recover again.
Posted 2013-12-16 11:32 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 11:15 AM
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 11:12 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
But Sherry is not "most people" she is a professional athlete. And our sports' professional athletes don't make a fraction of what other sports' professional athletes make. How could any true fan of rodeo see our elite competitiors making more money as a bad thing?
it's a bad thing if it's too costly to get the numbers of fans it takes to make it viable.......over the long term....if this doesn't work in FL, they will be taking a pay cut in 10 years......so this could really affect younger PRCA members and future members...
Exactly what I was thinking. Also, if this doesnt work out and Florida wants out in 10 years because the fan base numbers arent there, then what? Go begging Vegas to take it back after they have moved on with a different venue????
Posted 2013-12-16 11:33 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712 Location: That part of Texas
justcruzin - 2013-12-16 11:11 AM
Red Raider - 2013-12-16 9:06 AM This is what makes me laugh the most (as taken from the press release):
Christenson said NFR fans will have to pay about 40 percent more for tickets in central Florida than they have paid for the 10 days of rodeo at the sold-out Thomas &Mack Center at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
The average NFR ticket is about $75 each for a lower bowl seat and about $55 for an upper bowl seat, Christenson said.
I don't know what world this guy is living in but I know I haven't been paying $75 for a lower-level seat or even $55 for the upper (but we come late and take what we can get). I'm lucky if we can find lower level seating and pay $150-250 a ticket if we can find them.
So please, I would love to pay $105 a ticket and actually know that I'm going to get to watch the rodeo at that price and without having to do some back room deal with a guy in Vegas just to get my hands on decent seats. That's why so many people watch it from the casinos because it's hard to actually get a ticket. I know I don't like flying 4 hours (or driving 15 hours) to go to a rodeo to watch it on a screen but you do what you have to do.
I've also seen a lot my friends say they won't go if it's in Florida. All I can say is more beach for me my friends. I'd love to go to the NFR and come back with a tan. I'd miss Vegas but I'd still go wherever they have it.
Lol, and you dont think those scalpers are alive and well in Fl? Those 105.00 tickets just went to 300.00. Or more.
I'd have more of a shot at getting my hands on tickets without having to go through any 2nd party dealer/scalper in Florida than Vegas.
Posted 2013-12-16 11:44 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 10:51 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 10:35 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 10:12 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 10:05 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 8:33 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 8:28 AM I'd be very surprised if Vegas doesn't have a very attractive counter offer.
I don't kno......I thought that to. But go on the Internet and read about it. This thing has already progressed farther than what I would have thought. Honestly. It sounds like to me it's just formality of "signing the papers" now unless Las Vegas does something pretty quick. But your talking about a pretty big disparity in dollars. So I'm not sure they will pony it up.
LVE is a puppet. There are some shrewd business men pulling the strings. I would say expect the negotiations to last the full 90 days but I don't know how shrewd the PRCA negotiators are.
When I left Vegas in 2002, we had estimated the nongaming economic impact of the NFR around $75 Million. $4 million is a drop in the bucket.
I just read that last year they estimated it to be 90 million. I agree it is a drop in the bucket, but how much leeway do they have as far as adding money? And I read another deal that said Orlando is wanting to have it sewed by feb so they can make a big announcement at their silver spurs rodeo. It said they took a vote on a live video feed in front of the prca yesterday and all seven of their commissioners voted to move forward on this.
They have all the leeway in the world. Again the nongaming impact is also a drop in the bucket to the real impact. Average gaming revenue per day for the "big 23" on the strip is about $500,000.
Only $500,000/day in revenue (not profit)? Over 10 days, that's only $5 million (and TX I know you know this, but remember people, that's NOT PROFIT) more.
And $4 million *is* a decent amount when you're talking about $75 million. Like I said before, I wonder what the $4 million would be in terms of an increase in costs to LVE.
You're correct BoMama. That is gaming wins. It's also not seasonaly adjusted or specific to the days that NFR is in town. It does not take into consideration expenses but keep in mind many of the expenses are fixed or semi-fixed so it provides significant leverage regardless.
It also doesn't isolate the incremental impact of the NFR but that's also significant. $5 million per casino time 23 casinos come up to $115 million. That also is a fraction of the total gaming revenues for the week.... that's just 23 of the biggest. My only point is that with numbers like these, $4 million is not a big number.
Posted 2013-12-16 11:53 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
TyE - 2013-12-16 11:49 AM Does anyone have the numbers of when the NFR first moved to Vegas how the attendance was compared to OKC? ANyone remember that far back?
This discussion so reminds me of the move from OKC to Vegas............
Little girls wanted to run down the alley at the Myriad Convention Center and the OKC Fairgrounds before that.
No but attendance is one area that Vegas has made a mistake. They had 30 years to come up with a solution to increase attendance but never made the investment. There was good evidence 10 years ago that NFR attendance could average 25,000 per night if a facility would support it.
Posted 2013-12-16 11:54 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-16 11:32 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 11:15 AM
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-16 11:12 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
But Sherry is not "most people" she is a professional athlete. And our sports' professional athletes don't make a fraction of what other sports' professional athletes make. How could any true fan of rodeo see our elite competitiors making more money as a bad thing?
it's a bad thing if it's too costly to get the numbers of fans it takes to make it viable.......over the long term....if this doesn't work in FL, they will be taking a pay cut in 10 years......so this could really affect younger PRCA members and future members...
Exactly what I was thinking. Also, if this doesnt work out and Florida wants out in 10 years because the fan base numbers arent there, then what? Go begging Vegas to take it back after they have moved on with a different venue????
I know I don't sound like it, but I truly love rodeo.
I just know that it does not rank with other professional sports. (I believe they are all getting paid way too much to play a game!!!) Those of us who rodeo, or follow it even if we don't, are a small number compared to the world.
If Tuf Cooper, Kevin Durant and Tom Brady walk down the street together, almost everyone will know Kevin and Tom. Most won't know Tuf.
Older guys, Michael Jordon, Brett Farve, and Joe Beaver. Who are people going to recognize?
That is why it is so hard to sell to people outside rodeo. I wish everyone in the world loved rodeo as much as they do baseball, soccer, basketball, football or hockey.
So is there a better time of year than December to have the finals in Orlando? They've changed the regular season dates so many times I don't know why they couldn't change the dates of the finals.
TyE - 2013-12-16 11:49 AM Does anyone have the numbers of when the NFR first moved to Vegas how the attendance was compared to OKC? ANyone remember that far back?
This discussion so reminds me of the move from OKC to Vegas............
Little girls wanted to run down the alley at the Myriad Convention Center and the OKC Fairgrounds before that.
No but attendance is one area that Vegas has made a mistake. They had 30 years to come up with a solution to increase attendance but never made the investment. There was good evidence 10 years ago that NFR attendance could average 25,000 per night if a facility would support it.
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 10:24 AM The PRCA has gotten greedy. I'm not sure how much money they think they deserve. The PRCA thinks they should get some of the money from the trade shows, the after rodeo parties, etc. too.
Yes, Las Vegas profits from the Finals. Reports of how much money is generated is astonomical. However, consider the costs of building, running and maintaining a casino.
I am all for the cowboys and cowgirls, but just how much money do you really think you deserve for one round? $18K is a lot of money. Sherry won more in 10 days than most people make in a year, working a 40 hour week. I'm not saying she didn't deserve or earn it, but put it into perspective. This money is being GIVEN by LVE.
Year after year after year, through the recession, LVE has always come through. If the PRCA moves the Finals, I sure hope where ever they move it can prove this kind of money will always be there.
If what I was told is true, the PRCA's greed is why the Colorado Springs rodeo is now invitational.
You might want to do a little research. This isn't about the PRCA being greedy. This is about the PRCA listening to its membership and doing what they want. Everyone makes a pretty darn good living off of the backs of the cowboys out in Vegas off of the NFR. Casino's, vendors at the trade shows, stock contractors, but yet the ones who have put out the most during the year are offered the least. I would be willing to bet that over 50% of the timed event contestants run up in the red at the end of the year. But yet you expect them to just continue to take the short end of the stick. If you believe in the rodeo cowboy, then you should be standing behind them and agreeing that they deserve to be paid better.
I know what it cost for my husband to win the rookie of the year title. I know what it costs to just haul to make circuit finals.
I also know cowboys/cowgirls are choosing to rodeo as a living. This is one of the few "professional" sports that you get to play if you want to.
If I wanted to play in the NBA, I can't just buy a permit and "enter" a game.
On the flip side, in rodeo, you only get paid if you win.
I actually have the cowboys/cowgirls best interests in my thoughts. What happens, like someone already said, if this doesn't grow/expand the way it is being promised? Ask Las Vegas to take it back? Do you think they will offer more money then? The cowboys/cowgirls could end up with less money.
No one can tell the future. I would rather stay with someone who has provided and taken care of the Finals for so long.
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-16 12:10 PM I actually have the cowboys/cowgirls best interests in my thoughts. What happens, like someone already said, if this doesn't grow/expand the way it is being promised? Ask Las Vegas to take it back? Do you think they will offer more money then? The cowboys/cowgirls could end up with less money.
No, they won't beg for it to be back. Vegas has already given it's "counter-offer" on this deal and it's in the press release. Their offer is to take the loyalty of the fans to Vegas, the atmosphere and use it to jump-start a new series that will be theirs to run and control. The PRCA is banking that it can make it without Vegas and Vegas is doing the same.
kickincans - 2013-12-15 9:36 PM Well everyone has an opinion and I may be the odd one but I think it does need to move, it's time to find an arena that will make this a RODEO again, room for the team roping,instead of a sling out of the box with no where to go strap em out and watch a real roping, a bigger barrel pattern let em really run, and not so much about the glitz of Vegas more about the Rodeo, it may not be Florida but I think it's time for a change
so why not move it to South Point if it stays in Vegas thats a nice arena
I actually have the cowboys/cowgirls best interests in my thoughts. What happens, like someone already said, if this doesn't grow/expand the way it is being promised? Ask Las Vegas to take it back? Do you think they will offer more money then? The cowboys/cowgirls could end up with less money.
No, they won't beg for it to be back. Vegas has already given it's "counter-offer" on this deal and it's in the press release. Their offer is to take the loyalty of the fans to Vegas, the atmosphere and use it to jump-start a new series that will be theirs to run and control. The PRCA is banking that it can make it without Vegas and Vegas is doing the same.
I know what Las Vegas has planned if the Finals leave. I was just throwing out what the PRCA would do if they happened to need another home in a few years.
Maybe both will be ok and the cowboys will have 2 big "finals" to enter.
Red Raider - 2013-12-16 9:06 AM This is what makes me laugh the most (as taken from the press release):
Christenson said NFR fans will have to pay about 40 percent more for tickets in central Florida than they have paid for the 10 days of rodeo at the sold-out Thomas &Mack Center at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
The average NFR ticket is about $75 each for a lower bowl seat and about $55 for an upper bowl seat, Christenson said.
I don't know what world this guy is living in but I know I haven't been paying $75 for a lower-level seat or even $55 for the upper (but we come late and take what we can get). I'm lucky if we can find lower level seating and pay $150-250 a ticket if we can find them.
So please, I would love to pay $105 a ticket and actually know that I'm going to get to watch the rodeo at that price and without having to do some back room deal with a guy in Vegas just to get my hands on decent seats. That's why so many people watch it from the casinos because it's hard to actually get a ticket. I know I don't like flying 4 hours (or driving 15 hours) to go to a rodeo to watch it on a screen but you do what you have to do.
I've also seen a lot my friends say they won't go if it's in Florida. All I can say is more beach for me my friends. I'd love to go to the NFR and come back with a tan. I'd miss Vegas but I'd still go wherever they have it.
Lol, and you dont think those scalpers are alive and well in Fl? Those 105.00 tickets just went to 300.00. Or more.
I'd have more of a shot at getting my hands on tickets without having to go through any 2nd party dealer/scalper in Florida than Vegas.
They got this down to a science, wont matter where the event is held. Those tickets will be sold out and you/me will be paying top dollar for them.
Red Raider - 2013-12-16 9:06 AM This is what makes me laugh the most (as taken from the press release):
Christenson said NFR fans will have to pay about 40 percent more for tickets in central Florida than they have paid for the 10 days of rodeo at the sold-out Thomas &Mack Center at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
The average NFR ticket is about $75 each for a lower bowl seat and about $55 for an upper bowl seat, Christenson said.
I don't know what world this guy is living in but I know I haven't been paying $75 for a lower-level seat or even $55 for the upper (but we come late and take what we can get). I'm lucky if we can find lower level seating and pay $150-250 a ticket if we can find them.
So please, I would love to pay $105 a ticket and actually know that I'm going to get to watch the rodeo at that price and without having to do some back room deal with a guy in Vegas just to get my hands on decent seats. That's why so many people watch it from the casinos because it's hard to actually get a ticket. I know I don't like flying 4 hours (or driving 15 hours) to go to a rodeo to watch it on a screen but you do what you have to do.
I've also seen a lot my friends say they won't go if it's in Florida. All I can say is more beach for me my friends. I'd love to go to the NFR and come back with a tan. I'd miss Vegas but I'd still go wherever they have it.
Lol, and you dont think those scalpers are alive and well in Fl? Those 105.00 tickets just went to 300.00. Or more.
I'd have more of a shot at getting my hands on tickets without having to go through any 2nd party dealer/scalper in Florida than Vegas.
They got this down to a science, wont matter where the event is held. Those tickets will be sold out and you/me will be paying top dollar for them.
Who knows what demand will be at a new venue but 40% increase in supply could certainly lower prices.
People who are supporting this move or a move based on more money I have a huge question to ask. Where is PRCA guaranteeing this money is going to go to the contestants? Until i see it in writing and not just lip service I am not buying that argument. I see it going in PRCA coffers not on to the contestants. FL is so much more expensive than Vegas. Flights are expensive especially in December to there, hotels and food are way more expensive. I know how expensive it is to go to Vegas for two people and that is with them almost giving the rooms away, so how do people think a family can afford Florida? Lets face it, this has to be about the fans to because a rodeo with out Fan participation will not last. You have to have the fans. You can price yourself out of business.
I actually have the cowboys/cowgirls best interests in my thoughts. What happens, like someone already said, if this doesn't grow/expand the way it is being promised? Ask Las Vegas to take it back? Do you think they will offer more money then? The cowboys/cowgirls could end up with less money.
No, they won't beg for it to be back. Vegas has already given it's "counter-offer" on this deal and it's in the press release. Their offer is to take the loyalty of the fans to Vegas, the atmosphere and use it to jump-start a new series that will be theirs to run and control. The PRCA is banking that it can make it without Vegas and Vegas is doing the same.
I know what Las Vegas has planned if the Finals leave. I was just throwing out what the PRCA would do if they happened to need another home in a few years.
Maybe both will be ok and the cowboys will have 2 big "finals" to enter.
I hope you are right on that because it looks like it's going to happen. The "marriage" is not going to be reconcilable now, especially with the new releases from today and past rumor of a big break-up.
Does South Point adding new arenas/barns come into play with the new stuff? I was just wondering because I have friends in the roping down there and have some more in the area competing right now (think just about 10 miles down the road) in ranch sorting. Vegas is doing a pretty good job of pulling a bunch of horse events together at the first of December like that.
Tyson Durfey
I have seen alot of post on social media over the past 24 hours regarding the NFR and the potential move to Florida. There is a lot of very shady arrangements regarding Las Vegas and how they do their contracts. For example over the past several years they have turned down the ability to add extra money for the cowboys. As we all know the National Finals Rodeo adds a little over 6 million dollars in prize money with a 1.7% increase in the contract per year. The increase does not even keep up with inflation. There is a reason why other cities in America have offered nearly 3 times the amount to bring the NFR to other cities. Vegas has had numerous opportunities to increase their bid but just will not do it even though the NFR brings overs 200 million in gross revenue into the city. Just so everybody knows we as NFR qualifiers controlled that vote to turn down the existing contract of 6 million. So when you are mad and upset about the potential move realize that you are mad at the contestants you support. I know that Rodeo has the greatest fans in any American sport we as competitors are just trying to take the sport to the next level and make enough money to have something left when we get too old to Rodeo. Thank you.
The number of people who take their kids to the NFR is miniscule compared to those that dont. There is something to be said for Vegas offering an adult recess!Alot of people DONT want to take their kids and it is really difficult to Christmas shop with your kids in tow.
Also, yes more money would be great, BUT, Really now, Florida is like the edge of the earth. Can you imagine the haul there? Yes, Vegas is much more centrally located then Florida. ALOT easier haul for 90% of the contestants AND stock contractors then Florida.
First, not responding just to you -- just finally picked one to comment
Whether people take their children or not isn't as much the issue as Rodeo bills itself as a 'family' event. Think back over the this last week & the replay of Trevor's comment saying just that. He & Shada were on Fox and Friends this morning saying the same thing again, Rodeo is a Family event: good, wholesome fun....
Maybe the contestants would like to be able to take their children whether or not fan's do or not?
PS: I'm neither defending or opposing -- just thought I'd throw out another side to the 'kid' issue.
TXBO - 2013-12-16 8:28 AM I'd be very surprised if Vegas doesn't have a very attractive counter offer.
I don't kno......I thought that to. But go on the Internet and read about it. This thing has already progressed farther than what I would have thought. Honestly. It sounds like to me it's just formality of "signing the papers" now unless Las Vegas does something pretty quick. But your talking about a pretty big disparity in dollars. So I'm not sure they will pony it up.
LVE is a puppet. There are some shrewd business men pulling the strings. I would say expect the negotiations to last the full 90 days but I don't know how shrewd the PRCA negotiators are.
When I left Vegas in 2002, we had estimated the nongaming economic impact of the NFR around $75 Million. $4 million is a drop in the bucket.
I just read that last year they estimated it to be 90 million. I agree it is a drop in the bucket, but how much leeway do they have as far as adding money? And I read another deal that said Orlando is wanting to have it sewed by feb so they can make a big announcement at their silver spurs rodeo. It said they took a vote on a live video feed in front of the prca yesterday and all seven of their commissioners voted to move forward on this.
They have all the leeway in the world. Again the nongaming impact is also a drop in the bucket to the real impact. Average gaming revenue per day for the "big 23" on the strip is about $500,000.
Only $500,000/day in revenue (not profit)? Over 10 days, that's only $5 million (and TX I know you know this, but remember people, that's NOT PROFIT) more.
And $4 million *is* a decent amount when you're talking about $75 million. Like I said before, I wonder what the $4 million would be in terms of an increase in costs to LVE.
You're correct BoMama. That is gaming wins. It's also not seasonaly adjusted or specific to the days that NFR is in town. It does not take into consideration expenses but keep in mind many of the expenses are fixed or semi-fixed so it provides significant leverage regardless.
It also doesn't isolate the incremental impact of the NFR but that's also significant. $5 million per casino time 23 casinos come up to $115 million. That also is a fraction of the total gaming revenues for the week.... that's just 23 of the biggest. My only point is that with numbers like these, $4 million is not a big number.
Ah....PER CASINO. Now it makes more sense. I was reading it as a group.
You would think those casinos would lobby a little tougher. They'll be losing some change for sure!
Maybe someone has already posted this...sorry if it is a repeat. From Tyson Durfey's facebook page:
I have seen alot of post on social media over the past 24 hours regarding the NFR and the potential move to Florida. There is a lot of very shady arrangements regarding Las Vegas and how they do their contracts. For example over the past several years they have turned down the ability to add extra money for the cowboys. As we all know the National Finals Rodeo adds a little over 6 million dollars in prize money with a 1.7% increase in the contract per year. The increase does not even keep up with inflation. There is a reason why other cities in America have offered nearly 3 times the amount to bring the NFR to other cities. Vegas has had numerous opportunities to increase their bid but just will not do it even though the NFR brings overs 200 million in gross revenue into the city. Just so everybody knows we as NFR qualifiers controlled that vote to turn down the existing contract of 6 million. So when you are mad and upset about the potential move realize that you are mad at the contestants you support. I know that Rodeo has the greatest fans in any American sport we as competitors are just trying to take the sport to the next level and make enough money to have something left when we get too old to Rodeo. Thank you.
kickincans - 2013-12-15 10:36 PM Well everyone has an opinion and I may be the odd one but I think it does need to move, it's time to find an arena that will make this a RODEO again, room for the team roping,instead of a sling out of the box with no where to go strap em out and watch a real roping, a bigger barrel pattern let em really run, and not so much about the glitz of Vegas more about the Rodeo, it may not be Florida but I think it's time for a change
I agree, the rodeo needs to be about the contestants. But it needs sold out crowds for ticket sales. But the more I think about it after reading the Orlando newspaper story, maybe it's not so bad. Who wouldn't want to be in Fla in winter???? And the Gaylord resort is mega-huge money and glitz. Is that the same Gaylord as in Lazy E Ranch?
luvropin - 2013-12-16 2:21 PM Maybe someone has already posted this...sorry if it is a repeat. From Tyson Durfey's facebook page: I have seen alot of post on social media over the past 24 hours regarding the NFR and the potential move to Florida. There is a lot of very shady arrangements regarding Las Vegas and how they do their contracts. For example over the past several years they have turned down the ability to add extra money for the cowboys. As we all know the National Finals Rodeo adds a little over 6 million dollars in prize money with a 1.7% increase in the contract per year. The increase does not even keep up with inflation. There is a reason why other cities in America have offered nearly 3 times the amount to bring the NFR to other cities. Vegas has had numerous opportunities to increase their bid but just will not do it even though the NFR brings overs 200 million in gross revenue into the city. Just so everybody knows we as NFR qualifiers controlled that vote to turn down the existing contract of 6 million. So when you are mad and upset about the potential move realize that you are mad at the contestants you support. I know that Rodeo has the greatest fans in any American sport we as competitors are just trying to take the sport to the next level and make enough money to have something left when we get too old to Rodeo. Thank you.
well now i'm really curious as to what cities have offered 3x the money as las vegas and why they aren't being seriously considered.......??????
It's interesting how the PRCA is using the finalists......
luvropin - 2013-12-16 3:21 PM Maybe someone has already posted this...sorry if it is a repeat. From Tyson Durfey's facebook page: I have seen alot of post on social media over the past 24 hours regarding the NFR and the potential move to Florida. There is a lot of very shady arrangements regarding Las Vegas and how they do their contracts. For example over the past several years they have turned down the ability to add extra money for the cowboys. As we all know the National Finals Rodeo adds a little over 6 million dollars in prize money with a 1.7% increase in the contract per year. The increase does not even keep up with inflation. There is a reason why other cities in America have offered nearly 3 times the amount to bring the NFR to other cities. Vegas has had numerous opportunities to increase their bid but just will not do it even though the NFR brings overs 200 million in gross revenue into the city. Just so everybody knows we as NFR qualifiers controlled that vote to turn down the existing contract of 6 million. So when you are mad and upset about the potential move realize that you are mad at the contestants you support. I know that Rodeo has the greatest fans in any American sport we as competitors are just trying to take the sport to the next level and make enough money to have something left when we get too old to Rodeo. Thank you.
I knew something like this had to be going on. I myself am behind you all the way. Las Vegas has gotten greedy and it's time to stop taking the BS from them.
I think we need to go back to the TEAM RODEO concept from years ago to take rodeo to the next level. All other sports people get paid even if they don't win, and the team has a backing. Can you imagine the big cities that would field rodeo teams?
It astounds me how many people lack simple business concepts - and let me preface this by saying I don't care which contract the PRCA signs...
First of all, LVE offered FORTY PERCENT more than it has been paying. That's basically getting a 40% price increase in one year which is unheard of in most industries. Calling it "cheap" or "LVE playing hardball" is just stupid.
Second, when there's an increase like this, LVE should have additional expectations of the PRCA -- and I've yet to hear of anything. What's the PRCA going to do to get that 40%? How are they going to increase LVE's bottom line?
Third, it isn't unusual for a 3rd party to swoop in and make a company an amazing offer BUT at what nonmonetary cost? 1. You have to basically start all over with a town/facility that's never done this before. There will be extreme growing pains. 2. You won't get the fan draw. You just won't. It's fine for the contractual years but your brand -- your company -- would consider this (but, I'm not sure how the PRCA benefits from fans that don't come to the actual rodeo). 3. Will the product and support the town provides be as good? It's a risk when you're already satisfied with the current product.
luvropin - 2013-12-16 2:21 PM Maybe someone has already posted this...sorry if it is a repeat. From Tyson Durfey's facebook page: I have seen alot of post on social media over the past 24 hours regarding the NFR and the potential move to Florida. There is a lot of very shady arrangements regarding Las Vegas and how they do their contracts. For example over the past several years they have turned down the ability to add extra money for the cowboys. As we all know the National Finals Rodeo adds a little over 6 million dollars in prize money with a 1.7% increase in the contract per year. The increase does not even keep up with inflation. There is a reason why other cities in America have offered nearly 3 times the amount to bring the NFR to other cities. Vegas has had numerous opportunities to increase their bid but just will not do it even though the NFR brings overs 200 million in gross revenue into the city. Just so everybody knows we as NFR qualifiers controlled that vote to turn down the existing contract of 6 million. So when you are mad and upset about the potential move realize that you are mad at the contestants you support. I know that Rodeo has the greatest fans in any American sport we as competitors are just trying to take the sport to the next level and make enough money to have something left when we get too old to Rodeo. Thank you.
well now i'm really curious as to what cities have offered 3x the money as las vegas and why they aren't being seriously considered.......??????
It's interesting how the PRCA is using the finalists......
Yep. So far, I'm hearing a lot of spin with little specifics.
Does the PRCA leadership have the sophistication to navigate a negotiation like this?
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed.
I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida.
ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:41 PM It astounds me how many people lack simple business concepts - and let me preface this by saying I don't care which contract the PRCA signs...
First of all, LVE offered FORTY PERCENT more than it has been paying. That's basically getting a 40% price increase in one year which is unheard of in most industries. Calling it "cheap" or "LVE playing hardball" is just stupid.
Second, when there's an increase like this, LVE should have additional expectations of the PRCA -- and I've yet to hear of anything. What's the PRCA going to do to get that 40%? How are they going to increase LVE's bottom line?
Third, it isn't unusual for a 3rd party to swoop in and make a company an amazing offer BUT at what nonmonetary cost? 1. You have to basically start all over with a town/facility that's never done this before. There will be extreme growing pains. 2. You won't get the fan draw. You just won't. It's fine for the contractual years but your brand -- your company -- would consider this (but, I'm not sure how the PRCA benefits from fans that don't come to the actual rodeo). 3. Will the product and support the town provides be as good? It's a risk when you're already satisfied with the current product.
1) Where did you read that LVE offered a 40% increase? I'd like to read the specifics.
2) LVE is a non-profit set up to attract visitors for the local businesses. The bottom line is in tourism money.
3) Results from a new venue are purely speculative and certainly come with risk. I think risk in this instance is particularly high. I question the sophistication of those responsible for the due diligence.
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
They are projecting a sellout arena for 10 day. That's the breakeven. It's 40% larger than T&M.
The return is in local economic activity.
Had Vegas addressed a solution for a larger arena, this would never be an issue.
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:41 PM It astounds me how many people lack simple business concepts - and let me preface this by saying I don't care which contract the PRCA signs...
First of all, LVE offered FORTY PERCENT more than it has been paying. That's basically getting a 40% price increase in one year which is unheard of in most industries. Calling it "cheap" or "LVE playing hardball" is just stupid.
Second, when there's an increase like this, LVE should have additional expectations of the PRCA -- and I've yet to hear of anything. What's the PRCA going to do to get that 40%? How are they going to increase LVE's bottom line?
Third, it isn't unusual for a 3rd party to swoop in and make a company an amazing offer BUT at what nonmonetary cost? 1. You have to basically start all over with a town/facility that's never done this before. There will be extreme growing pains. 2. You won't get the fan draw. You just won't. It's fine for the contractual years but your brand -- your company -- would consider this (but, I'm not sure how the PRCA benefits from fans that don't come to the actual rodeo). 3. Will the product and support the town provides be as good? It's a risk when you're already satisfied with the current product.
1) Where did you read that LVE offered a 40% increase? I'd like to read the specifics.
2) LVE is a non-profit set up to attract visitors for the local businesses. The bottom line is in tourism money.
3) Results from a new venue are purely speculative and certainly come with risk. I think risk in this instance is particularly high. I question the sophistication of those responsible for the due diligence.
The increase was in response to CJE's post:
~~Similar to what I read also..........from facebook.....disclaimer.....from another page not directly to me
I got this from Kathi Myers, a long time friend of the family - wife to Bull Riding Champion Jimmie Myers - was /is on WPRA board. So her info is more solid in my opinion since she is close to the real sources.
PRCA feels the NFR is worth more than Las Vegas is wanting to pay to keep it. The contract with LVE is done following next year's NFR. PRCA has an offer from Osceola Country, FL to move it there. The PRCA Board voted today to reject the Las Vegas offer of a $4million raise to the $10 million it pays them now. They have been offered $16 million to move it to Kissimmee and Osceola County is promising to build a new arena, etc. by 2016. The 2015 event will be held in Orlando until the new facility is done. You can find a press release from the Osceola News-Gazette. You can also read Las Vegas' comment by searching FB for NFR Experience.
And what I was trying to point out on the bottom line remark is -- why does the PRCA deserve SO much of an increase? Normally, there is an exchange with negotiations. For instance, Vegas says "hey, I'll give you 40% more money" and the PRCA will promise a percentage increase in LVE's travel dollars. I don't see the NFR blowing up and going mainstream anytime soon -- Vegas or no Vegas -- so the PRCA is getting a lot for a little.
Wonder how long it's been in the works? 90 days is SUCH a short amount of time for such a large operation with astronomical variables.
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers.
I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation.
From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable.
Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I think the reason Florida's bid was thrown out there and not other cities is because it is at the other end of the states. They knew what they were doing when they wrote the article proposing Florida as the next NFR town. There are other cities bidding for it including the Dallas/FW area. The facility needs to be able to house more fans as well as accommodate the contestants better. I think that is in the negotiations too otherwise the promise of a new facility in Florida would have never come up. As far as people not going. It may lose some fans but it will gain more. Its the NFR people will go no matter where it's held. Imo
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of how the NFR will generate that much revenue for an area. LOVE to see it.
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:09 PM The increase was in response to CJE's post:
~~Similar to what I read also..........from facebook.....disclaimer.....from another page not directly to me
I got this from Kathi Myers, a long time friend of the family - wife to Bull Riding Champion Jimmie Myers - was /is on WPRA board. So her info is more solid in my opinion since she is close to the real sources.
PRCA feels the NFR is worth more than Las Vegas is wanting to pay to keep it. The contract with LVE is done following next year's NFR. PRCA has an offer from Osceola Country, FL to move it there. The PRCA Board voted today to reject the Las Vegas offer of a $4million raise to the $10 million it pays them now. They have been offered $16 million to move it to Kissimmee and Osceola County is promising to build a new arena, etc. by 2016. The 2015 event will be held in Orlando until the new facility is done. You can find a press release from the Osceola News-Gazette. You can also read Las Vegas' comment by searching FB for NFR Experience.
And what I was trying to point out on the bottom line remark is -- why does the PRCA deserve SO much of an increase? Normally, there is an exchange with negotiations. For instance, Vegas says "hey, I'll give you 40% more money" and the PRCA will promise a percentage increase in LVE's travel dollars. I don't see the NFR blowing up and going mainstream anytime soon -- Vegas or no Vegas -- so the PRCA is getting a lot for a little.
Wonder how long it's been in the works? 90 days is SUCH a short amount of time for such a large operation with astronomical variables.
Gotcha, thanks. I don't really trust the numbers I'm hearing online. I'd like to see the offer sheet.
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of how the NFR will generate that much revenue for an area. LOVE to see it.
And what I was trying to point out on the bottom line remark is -- why does the PRCA deserve SO much of an increase? Normally, there is an exchange with negotiations. For instance, Vegas says "hey, I'll give you 40% more money" and the PRCA will promise a percentage increase in LVE's travel dollars. I don't see the NFR blowing up and going mainstream anytime soon -- Vegas or no Vegas -- so the PRCA is getting a lot for a little.
Wonder how long it's been in the works? 90 days is SUCH a short amount of time for such a large operation with astronomical variables.
I get your point. If I were the PRCA, my response would be that Vegas's economic impact has grown to over $200 million and that PRCA hasn't grown equally because, in 30 years, Vegas has failed to provide facilities to accomodate growth in the actual event.
Vegas needs to either provide added money as a participation in the economic impact it provides or provide accomodations that allow PRCA to grow it's event.
As I lay here and read comment after comment on the Nfr topic of moving it somewhere else, it starts to bug me a little. Lve put the information out there for a reason to raise hype which is exactly what it's doing. The prca has not agreed nor signed anything to move the Nfr to Florida or any other destination. The vote was solely to decline a less than respectable offer that lve had on the table. And before people goes bashing the prca they should get some facts straight. Lve's offer was a 10 year contract that was less than that of inflation. Diesel is already $4.00/gallon in 10 years it may double it did in the last 10 years. Therefore it would not be feasible for anyone to rodeo and without competitors there is no rodeo/Nfr. Vegas has a great thing going but not only for our livelihood but for the next generation and others to follow we have to take a stand and that's what the prca has done. It is a step in the right direction and for the ones saying it's their dream to ride in the Thomas and Mack, moving the Nfr takes nothing away from the prestige of making it to the greatest rodeo on earth but it allows us to make a better living and to keep rodeo moving forward.
I'm just going to throw this out there as a wife of a member.. The Southeastern Circuit Finals are held in Davie, FL.. Very close to Miami/Fort Lauderdale. They pay their fees, add a lot of money, and I believe it was sold out each night. If it wasn't it darn sure was packed, and it was pouring down rain. They (the Seminole's) have the money to put up. But, from what my husband is being told (he is a member, was not at the NFR, but our friends were there as contestants) FL is not the only money being offered. Las Vegas' offer was declined, and they put out a somewhat truthful, yet well-written press release in hopes of the fan base turning on the PRCA. Please remember that this is how they make their living. We all need each other. Fans want a rodeo and contestants want to rodeo. I am certain that there are many details that are not being made known that will shed more light for us all.
As I lay here and read comment after comment on the Nfr topic of moving it somewhere else, it starts to bug me a little. Lve put the information out there for a reason to raise hype which is exactly what it's doing. The prca has not agreed nor signed anything to move the Nfr to Florida or any other destination. The vote was solely to decline a less than respectable offer that lve had on the table. And before people goes bashing the prca they should get some facts straight. Lve's offer was a 10 year contract that was less than that of inflation. Diesel is already $4.00/gallon in 10 years it may double it did in the last 10 years. Therefore it would not be feasible for anyone to rodeo and without competitors there is no rodeo/Nfr. Vegas has a great thing going but not only for our livelihood but for the next generation and others to follow we have to take a stand and that's what the prca has done. It is a step in the right direction and for the ones saying it's their dream to ride in the Thomas and Mack, moving the Nfr takes nothing away from the prestige of making it to the greatest rodeo on earth but it allows us to make a better living and to keep rodeo moving forward.
now that's the first actual intelligent PR directed comment from one these guys that been posted
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of how the NFR will generate that much revenue for an area. LOVE to see it.
You're right. The $200k impact is probably pretty accurate and more that half of that is gaming revenue. There aren't many places that can come close. However, most cities won't need near that kind of impact in order to consider it a success. If the economic impact to Orland is only $10 Million over ten days, will they consider it a success?
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of how the NFR will generate that much revenue for an area. LOVE to see it.
Like I said, I in no way speak to the accuracy of those figures. The $200,000,000 figure I heard was most likely a gross number. A figure of $90 million non gaming revenue has been mentioned on several accounts also, which makes the $200 million total impact figure a little more believable to me. If you look at how many related events that are held in conjunction with the finals, along with the presence of all Las Vegas has to offer (i.e. gambling), it really isn't to hard to start thinking those figures are not that "out there".
I wouldn't truly trust figures presented by either side. Each side will act in there own self interest with numbers and arguments presented.
I am in no way business minded, but the World Series Team Roping Finals were held the same week at the Southpoint. The way they have those ropings set up keeps the ropers there for the majority of the week. My dad ran his first steer on Sunday, second steer on Wednesday and the short round on Saturday. His friend ran his first steer on Thursday with the short round on Sunday. When you consider the number of ropers to each roping, their families, shopping and rooms because people are coming from all over the country.. that also generates a LOT of income, not to mention the Bronc Futurity Finals that is also held there.
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of how the NFR will generate that much revenue for an area. LOVE to see it.
Like I said, I in no way speak to the accuracy of those figures. The $200,000,000 figure I heard was most likely a gross number. A figure of $90 million non gaming revenue has been mentioned on several accounts also, which makes the $200 million total impact figure a little more believable to me. If you look at how many related events that are held in conjunction with the finals, along with the presence of all Las Vegas has to offer (i.e. gambling), it really isn't to hard to start thinking those figures are not that "out there". I wouldn't truly trust figures presented by either side. Each side will act in there own self interest with numbers and arguments presented.
and that's a good point....is the WTRC going to move it's event out of Las Vegas????......that's a huge draw for vegas at that time that also contributes to the numbers we are talking about......maybe as big as the NFR just because of the number of contestants and their families?????
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of how the NFR will generate that much revenue for an area. LOVE to see it.
Bo, i was thinking about this last night.
If you figure that T&M holds 18k(round number) and safely assume that conservatively there are twice that many people in town just for the nfr that is 36k a day in town for that draw.
At a conservative $700 a day for each person, that's all in room, food, ent. shopping. you are talking about $250,000,000 over 10 days.
I'm not nearly as business savy as yellowhorse, but seems to me that someones holding out on someone.
I think that if this comes down to a battle of smarts that the RCA is going to be left wanting. I hope that LVE comes back with something that they can live with and this get's put to bed because I have a seriously hard time believing that any other venue will draw people like Vegas does. ANd the plain and simple fact of this deal is without the people draw the money goes away..
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:41 PM Like I said, I in no way speak to the accuracy of those figures. The $200,000,000 figure I heard was most likely a gross number. A figure of $90 million non gaming revenue has been mentioned on several accounts also, which makes the $200 million total impact figure a little more believable to me. If you look at how many related events that are held in conjunction with the finals, along with the presence of all Las Vegas has to offer (i.e. gambling), it really isn't to hard to start thinking those figures are not that "out there". I wouldn't truly trust figures presented by either side. Each side will act in there own self interest with numbers and arguments presented.
Those number are probably pretty accurate. Cut them in half and they're still big numbers.
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of how the NFR will generate that much revenue for an area. LOVE to see it.
You're right. The $200k impact is probably pretty accurate and more that half of that is gaming revenue. There aren't many places that can come close. However, most cities won't need near that kind of impact in order to consider it a success. If the economic impact to Orland is only $10 Million over ten days, will they consider it a success?
It's still a stretch. First, you'd have your cost of 16 million (which isn't capturing all the costs since they'll be building facilities, infrastructure, paying for all the city services, etc). Then, if you're wanting a profit of $10 million, the revenue associated would have to be somewhere around the $25 million mark as a guestimate coming to a total of $41 million over 10 days which, again, is a stretch (in my mind at least) for a town that's not set up like Vegas (gambling and shows are off the table).
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of how the NFR will generate that much revenue for an area. LOVE to see it.
You're right. The $200k impact is probably pretty accurate and more that half of that is gaming revenue. There aren't many places that can come close. However, most cities won't need near that kind of impact in order to consider it a success. If the economic impact to Orland is only $10 Million over ten days, will they consider it a success?
It's still a stretch. First, you'd have your cost of 16 million (which isn't capturing all the costs since they'll be building facilities, infrastructure, paying for all the city services, etc). Then, if you're wanting a profit of $10 million, the revenue associated would have to be somewhere around the $25 million mark as a guestimate coming to a total of $41 million over 10 days which, again, is a stretch (in my mind at least) for a town that's not set up like Vegas (gambling and shows are off the table).
if your trying to associate those revenue numbers with any other venue but Vegas I think it would be way off.
Again, as i was told earlier from yellow, if the moneys there it's a good thing. It matters not one bit if anyone shows up or not.
I haven't read this thread, because I'm at work and don't have time at the moment. But the idea of Las Vegas having a "new finals" isn't really a surprise. As soon as the PRCA lost Houston & Calgary, I mentioned it coming down to there being an Invitational NFR that was bigger (& better) than the real NFR. There is really no reason for a rodeo to be sanctioned by the PRCA anymore. They will get the cowboy talent if they add enough $$. Today's cowboys have no loyalty and will go where the money is. Going to an "amateur" rodeo has no stigma attached. Just sit back and watch the PRCA implode upon itself. Sad, really... When I see Gold Buckle wearers turning out at a $5000 added rodeo, and competing at a non-PRCA sanctioned rodeo down the road 100 or less miles for $500 added, I just sit and wonder...
Pardon my rambling, but I'm swamped at work, AND I keep getting texts & emails from friends asking about the NFR drama. Like I have any answers!!! lol
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of how the NFR will generate that much revenue for an area. LOVE to see it.
You're right. The $200k impact is probably pretty accurate and more that half of that is gaming revenue. There aren't many places that can come close. However, most cities won't need near that kind of impact in order to consider it a success. If the economic impact to Orland is only $10 Million over ten days, will they consider it a success?
It's still a stretch. First, you'd have your cost of 16 million (which isn't capturing all the costs since they'll be building facilities, infrastructure, paying for all the city services, etc). Then, if you're wanting a profit of $10 million, the revenue associated would have to be somewhere around the $25 million mark as a guestimate coming to a total of $41 million over 10 days which, again, is a stretch (in my mind at least) for a town that's not set up like Vegas (gambling and shows are off the table).
An average ticket price of $67 covers the $16 Million in a sold out arena with a capacity of 24,000. Concessions pay the rest of the bills.
At one time, Vegas estimated that every NFR visitor spent $1300 during NFR week and an additional $230 in gaming. Cut that back to $1000, skip the gaming and the economic impact for 45,000 people would be $45 Million in additonal revenues.
Disclosure: My numbers are over 10 years old and rounded to my best recollection.
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
They are projecting a sellout arena for 10 day. That's the breakeven. It's 40% larger than T&M.
The return is in local economic activity.
Had Vegas addressed a solution for a larger arena, this would never be an issue.
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post.
I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of how the NFR will generate that much revenue for an area. LOVE to see it.
You're right. The $200k impact is probably pretty accurate and more that half of that is gaming revenue. There aren't many places that can come close. However, most cities won't need near that kind of impact in order to consider it a success. If the economic impact to Orland is only $10 Million over ten days, will they consider it a success?
It's still a stretch. First, you'd have your cost of 16 million (which isn't capturing all the costs since they'll be building facilities, infrastructure, paying for all the city services, etc). Then, if you're wanting a profit of $10 million, the revenue associated would have to be somewhere around the $25 million mark as a guestimate coming to a total of $41 million over 10 days which, again, is a stretch (in my mind at least) for a town that's not set up like Vegas (gambling and shows are off the table).
An average ticket price of $67 covers the $16 Million in a sold out arena with a capacity of 24,000. Concessions pay the rest of the bills.
At one time, Vegas estimated that every NFR visitor spent $1300 during NFR week and an additional $230 in gaming. Cut that back to $1000, skip the gaming and the economic impact for 45,000 people would be $45 Million in additonal revenues.
Disclosure: My numbers are over 10 years old and rounded to my best recollection.
Holy hell
I wish my wife and daughter could figure out how to go to Vegas for $1300 a week.
Posts: 1257 Location: Colorado plains standing on a goat head!
horsecrazy45 - 2013-12-16 11:35 AM
kickincans - 2013-12-15 9:36 PM Well everyone has an opinion and I may be the odd one but I think it does need to move, it's time to find an arena that will make this a RODEO again, room for the team roping,instead of a sling out of the box with no where to go strap em out and watch a real roping, a bigger barrel pattern let em really run, and not so much about the glitz of Vegas more about the Rodeo, it may not be Florida but I think it's time for a change
so why not move it to South Point if it stays in Vegas thats a nice arena
Southpoint is a nice arena and they are adding 2 more next year, but the main arena only seats 4,600 so not much revenue there.
I am not going to address the money issue as there are far too many speculative figures floating around.
However, as a fan I will address the 'How dare they move it' attitude. Never once have I said, 'I want to go to Vagas.' The WHOLE POINT is going to the NFR!! Yes the bright lights are pretty and people gamble, but I repeat, THE WHOLE POINT is the NFR. If people are only going to Vegas for everything else, and the Rodeo is just there in hindsight, well they can still have a vacation and gamble, go to clubs etc and watch the NFR on TV.
As Fatchance said on another thread - if she was at the NFR for the 10 days, all she would want to do is go to the rodeo. I totally agree. All the window dressings are just extras. The cowboys and cowgirls who have slogged it out with blood, sweat and tears all year. The horses and rough stock, the highs and lows; the excitement and despair of the sport that is Rodeo. THIS is the drawcard. I hope fans really look at the message their idols are sending Vegas and support these Cowboys and Cowgirls and pause a little before they get up in arms about missing out on the flashing lights of Vegas IF and it is still a big IF, the NFR moves.
I know on the internet you cannot see emotion or hear my tone of voice, but I am speaking here from the heart as a huge Rodeo fan/competitor and supporter of what the NFR competitors want.
Flame away, I have my jeans and boots on and horses to ride - I'll check back later.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Member
Posts: 14
The NFR Experience just posted that after 2014 the NFR will not be held in Vegas any more will be moved to Osceola County, Florida. Here's the link --> http://www.nfrexperience.com/news/read/79 .... I'm kinda saddened by this news.. cause like most all barrel racers my dreams are to be running down the alley at the Thomas & Mack. But what now? and also its going to hurt the fans because ticket prices are going to be raised like 40%! Not excited by this news, not one bit.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981 Location: North Dakota
Well that's a terrible move. As much as I want to visit the NFR and visit Florida, a 40% increase in prices would make that impossible for me. Not to mention plane tickets to FL in December is probably going to be more expensive. I hope they don't follow through.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672 Location: North MS
I get to drive there and have a college friend I can stay with for free. But I can see where it wouldn't work for others. Chances of me getting hubby to las vegas- zilch. Florida- possible!
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354 Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas
Not a good ideal, because one day I was planning on going to the NFR in Las Vegas and get to visit the Thomas & Mack and watch all the great cowboys and cowgirls win the gold
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
cavyrunsbarrels - 2013-12-15 10:36 PM
Well that's a terrible move. As much as I want to visit the NFR and visit Florida, a 40% increase in prices would make that impossible for me. Not to mention plane tickets to FL in December is probably going to be more expensive. I hope they don't follow through.
I don't think they are saying tickets will be 40 percent higher in fl. Vegas events is saying that if the matched the Florida deal ticket prices in Vegas would have to increase by 40 percent.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Hugs to You
Posts: 7551 Location: In The Land of Cotton
Although it is within 5 hours of my house, I say it sucks. Nov-Dec are the busy times of year for Orlando, (as if they weren't always busy). The traffic is a night mare no matter what time of the day. Hotel rooms are sky high and so is food.
While change is never easy, I say it was the wrong move. The only good thing is that it will not be cold.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Buttered Noodles Snacker
Posts: 4377 Location: NC
Wait I am confused... When I read it I get from it that they are moving to FL because to STAY in Vegas it would require a 40% increase in ticket prices.....
If that is the case I can see why they felt they needed to move. It won’t be the same, but I am sure they will do their best to make it a good show for the contestants and the spectators.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
HorsesNHarleys - 2013-12-16 7:15 AM
Wait I am confused... When I read it I get from it that they are moving to FL because to STAY in Vegas it would require a 40% increase in ticket prices.....
If that is the case I can see why they felt they needed to move. It won’t be the same, but I am sure they will do their best to make it a good show for the contestants and the spectators.
No, Las Vegas events is saying to match the money Orlando is offering they would have to increase the cost of tickets by 40 percent, at Thomas and Mack.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Expert
Posts: 1488
barn mom - 2013-12-16 7:03 AM
bring it !!! this may close the door to some and will open it for others. its a change. it will all be fine. on to the next challenge !!
If they make this move it may very well be the final nail in the PRCA coffin.
Don't for a second think that LVE will give up that Dec. draw. That means another rodeo with Vegas money behind it. Guess where the Contestants are going to go?
We'll see, I'm betting this is posturing and negotiations but you never know.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 7:26 AM
barn mom - 2013-12-16 7:03 AM bring it !!! this may close the door to some and will open it for others. its a change. it will all be fine. on to the next challenge !!
If they make this move it may very well be the final nail in the PRCA coffin. Don't for a second think that LVE will give up that Dec. draw. That means another rodeo with Vegas money behind it. Guess where the Contestants are going to go? We'll see, I'm betting this is posturing and negotiations but you never know.
this is what I was thinking
I think overall, vegas is a better venue for something like the NFR. However, I understand that the contestants want more money... I guess we shall see
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 7:26 AM
barn mom - 2013-12-16 7:03 AM
bring it !!! this may close the door to some and will open it for others. its a change. it will all be fine. on to the next challenge !!
If they make this move it may very well be the final nail in the PRCA coffin.
Don't for a second think that LVE will give up that Dec. draw. That means another rodeo with Vegas money behind it. Guess where the Contestants are going to go?
We'll see, I'm betting this is posturing and negotiations but you never know.
I don't think it will be the nail in the coffin. Karl Stressman said one of the reasons they are actually able to consider the move is because they are financially sound now, where in the past that hasn't been the case. He said before when LVE would offer a nickel more they would have to jump on it because they had no other choice pretty much.
Also the number of prca rodeos and prize money offered is actually up quite a bit. So it sounds like to me they are on the right track for the most part.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Expert
Posts: 1488
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 7:45 AM
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 7:26 AM
barn mom - 2013-12-16 7:03 AM
bring it !!! this may close the door to some and will open it for others. its a change. it will all be fine. on to the next challenge !!
If they make this move it may very well be the final nail in the PRCA coffin.
Don't for a second think that LVE will give up that Dec. draw. That means another rodeo with Vegas money behind it. Guess where the Contestants are going to go?
We'll see, I'm betting this is posturing and negotiations but you never know.
I don't think it will be the nail in the coffin. Karl Stressman said one of the reasons they are actually able to consider the move is because they are financially sound now, where in the past that hasn't been the case. He said before when LVE would offer a nickel more they would have to jump on it because they had no other choice pretty much.
Also the number of prca rodeos and prize money offered is actually up quite a bit. So it sounds like to me they are on the right track for the most part.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 7:26 AM
barn mom - 2013-12-16 7:03 AM bring it !!! this may close the door to some and will open it for others. its a change. it will all be fine. on to the next challenge !!
If they make this move it may very well be the final nail in the PRCA coffin. Don't for a second think that LVE will give up that Dec. draw. That means another rodeo with Vegas money behind it. Guess where the Contestants are going to go? We'll see, I'm betting this is posturing and negotiations but you never know.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 7:53 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-16 7:45 AM
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 7:26 AM
barn mom - 2013-12-16 7:03 AM
bring it !!! this may close the door to some and will open it for others. its a change. it will all be fine. on to the next challenge !!
If they make this move it may very well be the final nail in the PRCA coffin.
Don't for a second think that LVE will give up that Dec. draw. That means another rodeo with Vegas money behind it. Guess where the Contestants are going to go?
We'll see, I'm betting this is posturing and negotiations but you never know.
I don't think it will be the nail in the coffin. Karl Stressman said one of the reasons they are actually able to consider the move is because they are financially sound now, where in the past that hasn't been the case. He said before when LVE would offer a nickel more they would have to jump on it because they had no other choice pretty much.
Also the number of prca rodeos and prize money offered is actually up quite a bit. So it sounds like to me they are on the right track for the most part.
We'll see
Yes, I think as long as they are able to sell the venue out eventually and the added money is able to increase substantially it will succeed. While Las Vegas has become a tradition for the nfr now, unless that translates into more money for the prca and the contestants, I think moving will only help.
I personally would like to see it in Dallas. But I don't see who would put up that kind of money to get it here.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1037
Ask anyone in Vegas and they will tell you the NFR keeps the city alive during the "dead" time until New Year Eve. They are not going to lose the RODEO CROWD. Im ready to see what they have up their sleeve. I wouldnt doubt that it will be something like "The American" as a series through the year, that finishes up in Vegas. Way too fishy that the PRCA dropped GAC and RFD and now they are set on moving from Las Vegas as well.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Member
Posts: 14
Just throwing out another thought, I've heard that some big rodeo's have left the PRCA Such as Omaha and I do believe Reno. Wonder if any other rodeo's will follow suit and Vegas will host a different kind of finals. Just a thought.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
RopeSharp-TurnSharp - 2013-12-16 2:12 PM
Just throwing out another thought, I've heard that some big rodeo's have left the PRCA Such as Omaha and I do believe Reno. Wonder if any other rodeo's will follow suit and Vegas will host a different kind of finals. Just a thought.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Regular
Posts: 91
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 2:16 PM
RopeSharp-TurnSharp - 2013-12-16 2:12 PM
Just throwing out another thought, I've heard that some big rodeo's have left the PRCA Such as Omaha and I do believe Reno. Wonder if any other rodeo's will follow suit and Vegas will host a different kind of finals. Just a thought.
i think greeley and pikes peak are no longer prca
Greely and Reno were both Tour rodeos last year, and Omaho hosted the Tour Finale.
Posted 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708 Location: Colorado
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 2:16 PM
RopeSharp-TurnSharp - 2013-12-16 2:12 PM Just throwing out another thought, I've heard that some big rodeo's have left the PRCA Such as Omaha and I do believe Reno. Wonder if any other rodeo's will follow suit and Vegas will host a different kind of finals. Just a thought.
i think greeley and pikes peak are no longer prca
According to a committee member Greeley is PRCA for 2014
Have you actually looked at where the proposed site is? I mean really looked -- like in pictures or maps? It's a mammoth resort with lots of space. I think the vendors will be pretty happy with how much room they are going to have. I know every year there is a huge golf and golf cart vendor convention down there and you can walk 10 miles a day without seeing every vendor.
I was curious as to whether the location would be big enough. I've never been to Florida so I have no idea. I'm glad to hear from someone that has been down there before.
barrelrider - 2013-12-16 11:07 AM I was curious as to whether the location would be big enough. I've never been to Florida so I have no idea. I'm glad to hear from someone that has been down there before.
I haven't personally been but my parents went a couple of years for the golf cart convention when we sold them. You needed a golf cart down there to get to every place that had a vendor spot available. I know they said in one exhibition hall it would take you all day to walk along the booths and stuff because it was so big and had so much space to it.
Is all I can say! We were thinking of going to Vegas next year for the finals, but we have been to Vegas for the Finals before, and may have to go for 2015!!! woowza.
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-16 11:49 AM Oh yeah, $265 - $375 a night for middle of the week sounds right up cowboy town alley. lol
If you do a search of hotels in the area, you'll see that they are not all that price and there are some affordable rates comparable to those in Vegas once you pay the resort fees and other costs. It would be like me pulling up a room at the Bellagio or Wynn and saying, "Nope, just can't afford it at all!" while not even looking at some of the cheaper alternatives.
Let me start by saying.... I am a born/bred Floridian and I think it is a HORRIBLE IDEA! Do they have any clue as to how "spread out" everything is in Kissimmee, FL. In December the streets/roads are filled with "tourist", "snowbirds" and our roads are already bad enough, and during the time of the NFR there is also the "ICE" going on at Gaylord Palms and there are not any close hotels either. There is also no real night life or clubs in Kissimmee either and downtown Orlando is just totally boring, what is everyone going to do, drive 1 1/2 hours + traffic back to Tampa to go to the Hard Rock Hotel/Casino! There is no gambling in that area, no "open container law" so people can't walk up and down the streets with their favorite adult beverage. The only "shows" are Blue Man Group, Midevil Times, Arabian Nights and a few others.
In 2015 trying to get into the Amway Center in Orlando will be a NIGHTMARE! Believe me it is not a good area to try to have something of this magnitude and yes there are rodeos in FL and allot of horses but look at how far some people, like Sherry Cervi, will have to travel! Plus the ground here is very very different, and the humidity (yes even in December we have 100% humidity with 85+ degrees) will both allot of the horses if they are not used to it.
Well at least Kaley will be able to drive back/forth to the house and keep her horses are home!
Matts, I totally agree. Living within 5 hours I know exactly what you are talking about. My son lived there going to college, I do not know how he did it. Let alone everywhere is on a turnpike where they quarter you to death.
Also, someone else brought up, what about the quarratine that FL will have to have for the stock that is from Canada? Of course we do just personal health certificates on our animals, but that question also makes you wonder.
I havent read everything but here is my two cents...
I think that people forget that Vegas has taken one of the biggest economic hits than any other major city in the U.S. They may not have much more to offer than they have. I realize they make a big profit but I have yet to see a confirmed amount. You also have to consider their profit vs how much they put out for this even.
I also am with the other posters on kids. I dont think the NFR is really a "kid" place. Not just because its in Vegas and I am not in favor of bringing it to FL just because its more "family friendly." I have no desire to go to florida for water parks and disney land. If I am going to go to Florida I am going to spend my time on the beach. I also disagree that Vegas has nothing for kids. I personally do not gamble... Circus circus is a great attraction for kids. I went to multiple exhibits such as an underwater world. They have different things for kids if you want them. Vegas is more geared towards adults but kids CAN go and have fun.
I understand the contestants want more money but I am afraid a move like this will have very detrimental consequences long term on the sport and event. I think it will be a lot more expensive in Florida and I think many people will choose to pass.
I do not plan on going and I am making it a point to go for the first time in 2014!!!
Let me start by saying.... I am a born/bred Floridian and I think it is a HORRIBLE IDEA! Do they have any clue as to how "spread out" everything is in Kissimmee, FL. In December the streets/roads are filled with "tourist", "snowbirds" and our roads are already bad enough, and during the time of the NFR there is also the "ICE" going on at Gaylord Palms and there are not any close hotels either. There is also no real night life or clubs in Kissimmee either and downtown Orlando is just totally boring, what is everyone going to do, drive 1 1/2 hours + traffic back to Tampa to go to the Hard Rock Hotel/Casino! There is no gambling in that area, no "open container law" so people can't walk up and down the streets with their favorite adult beverage. The only "shows" are Blue Man Group, Midevil Times, Arabian Nights and a few others.
In 2015 trying to get into the Amway Center in Orlando will be a NIGHTMARE! Believe me it is not a good area to try to have something of this magnitude and yes there are rodeos in FL and allot of horses but look at how far some people, like Sherry Cervi, will have to travel! Plus the ground here is very very different, and the humidity (yes even in December we have 100% humidity with 85+ degrees) will both allot of the horses if they are not used to it.
Well at least Kaley will be able to drive back/forth to the house and keep her horses are home!
I asked earlier but is there any time if the year that is better for the NFR? The NFR might not have to be in December.
I think that nobody realizes that Florida is known as the "service state " LVG aint got nothing on Florida, if the NFR does go there they will make it bigger and better then Vegas ever could I am sorry that's the truth, and as much as I would have loved to have run down the T&M alley way ....I really don't care where it goes, I am pretty sure if I made the Finals and I was going to run in FL I really wouldn't care that it wasn't in LVG.....its sounds stupid now, but you watch if it goes to Florida they will treat it right and GO BIG its just they way they roll down there ......that's why I love it. Can anyone be positive about anything on this board ? come on y'all who cares where its at, if the Pros go with it so will I, its the people that make Rodeo and the NFR special not the city or state .......just support the dang thang wherever it goes, its in the athletes and directors hand not ours.
I think that nobody realizes that Florida is known as the "service state " LVG aint got nothing on Florida, if the NFR does go there they will make it bigger and better then Vegas ever could I am sorry that's the truth, and as much as I would have loved to have run down the T&M alley way ....I really don't care where it goes, I am pretty sure if I made the Finals and I was going to run in FL I really wouldn't care that it wasn't in LVG.....its sounds stupid now, but you watch if it goes to Florida they will treat it right and GO BIG its just they way they roll down there ......that's why I love it. Can anyone be positive about anything on this board ? come on y'all who cares where its at, if the Pros go with it so will I, its the people that make Rodeo and the NFR special not the city or state .......just support the dang thang wherever it goes, its in the athletes and directors hand not ours.
I think you are correct. I don't care where it moves to as long as it helps grow the sport. But to discount the people putting up the bid in Florida is crazy! I feel confident that area can meet or exceed what Vegas put on.
The Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association Board of Directors voted Dec. 15 to reject the terms of the current financial offer from Las Vegas Events to extend the WNFR contract past 2014. The PRCA Board did not vote to leave Las Vegas; the vote was made strictly on the content of the current offer. The PRCA continues to carefully consider offers from all potential WNFR hosts.
For all you saying its all about greed will you stop and think about the contestants? It takes their regular seasons earnings just to get to the NFR. They are the ones putting on this show that is making Vegas 200 million. Yet Vegas won't add more to the purse??? Yeah sounds like greed coming from VEGAS! The PRCA needs to stand up for its contestants. Also the contestants are the ones who voted to not sign the contract with Vegas again for the same amount of money. Nobody is telling Vegas they can't pay more money and keep the NFR. They are just hoping people will throw enough of fit so they can get out of paying the contestants.
For all you saying its all about greed will you stop and think about the contestants? It takes their regular seasons earnings just to get to the NFR. They are the ones putting on this show that is making Vegas 200 million. Yet Vegas won't add more to the purse??? Yeah sounds like greed coming from VEGAS! The PRCA needs to stand up for its contestants. Also the contestants are the ones who voted to not sign the contract with Vegas again for the same amount of money. Nobody is telling Vegas they can't pay more money and keep the NFR. They are just hoping people will throw enough of fit so they can get out of paying the contestants.
For all you saying its all about greed will you stop and think about the contestants? It takes their regular seasons earnings just to get to the NFR. They are the ones putting on this show that is making Vegas 200 million. Yet Vegas won't add more to the purse??? Yeah sounds like greed coming from VEGAS! The PRCA needs to stand up for its contestants. Also the contestants are the ones who voted to not sign the contract with Vegas again for the same amount of money. Nobody is telling Vegas they can't pay more money and keep the NFR. They are just hoping people will throw enough of fit so they can get out of paying the contestants.
I havent read everything but here is my two cents...
I think that people forget that Vegas has taken one of the biggest economic hits than any other major city in the U.S. They may not have much more to offer than they have. I realize they make a big profit but I have yet to see a confirmed amount. You also have to consider their profit vs how much they put out for this even.
I also am with the other posters on kids. I dont think the NFR is really a "kid" place. Not just because its in Vegas and I am not in favor of bringing it to FL just because its more "family friendly." I have no desire to go to florida for water parks and disney land. If I am going to go to Florida I am going to spend my time on the beach. I also disagree that Vegas has nothing for kids. I personally do not gamble... Circus circus is a great attraction for kids. I went to multiple exhibits such as an underwater world. They have different things for kids if you want them. Vegas is more geared towards adults but kids CAN go and have fun.
I understand the contestants want more money but I am afraid a move like this will have very detrimental consequences long term on the sport and event. I think it will be a lot more expensive in Florida and I think many people will choose to pass.
I do not plan on going and I am making it a point to go for the first time in 2014!!!
It is 200 million. Yeah I think they have the money to add.... Also that number is taken off of Shane Hancheys FB post that he explained what he thought about it.
...and if you read the comments.. lots of people FROM there are saying those 10 days are the biggest event time of the year.. This will not be good for that city if the NFR leaves.
"I have seen alot of post on social media over the past 24 hours regarding the NFR and the potential move to Florida. There is a lot of very shady arrangements regarding Las Vegas and how they do their contracts. For example over the past several years they have turned down the ability to add extra money for the cowboys. As we all know the National Finals Rodeo adds a little over 6 million dollars ...in prize money with a 1.7% increase in the contract per year. The increase does not even keep up with inflation. There is a reason why other cities in America have offered nearly 3 times the amount to bring the NFR to other cities. Vegas has had numerous opportunities to increase their bid but just will not do it even though the NFR brings overs 200 million in gross revenue into the city. Just so everybody knows we as NFR qualifiers controlled that vote to turn down the existing contract of 6 million. So when you are mad and upset about the potential move realize that you are mad at the contestants you support. I know that Rodeo has the greatest fans in any American sport we as competitors are just trying to take the sport to the next level and make enough money to have something left when we get too old to Rodeo. Thank youf".
Posted 2013-12-16 8:14 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 410
TXBO - 2013-12-16 7:47 PM
Tyson needs to stick to roping.
Why? He is one of the only people that should really have a say in this lol without the contestants there would be no show. Fans who want to see the best of the best will go where ever the NFR is.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:14 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
I agree.......everyone can have an opinion but Tyson's comments.....well....let's just say he should stick to roping or take some advice from Caleb Driggers
Posted 2013-12-16 8:14 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115 Location: Arkansas
Someone needs to figure out a way to pay the cowboys and cowgirls a lump some or something when they GET TO the finals.. I watched my brother make the finals 15 times, win the world twice and be BROKE when he gets there hoping he wins enough money at the finals to start the new year!! Not every year but most years.. If they can figure out how to give them more money in Florida, then go to Florida.. Las Vegas needs to up the ante to be able to keep it there.. First place money has only increased around $250 a year since they moved it to Vegas.. That's not a whole lot.. These guys are trying to make a living.. The fans will follow if they are true fans.. I would love for it to be in Dallas or OKC again.. I'm there for the rodeo not the night life.. L
Posted 2013-12-16 8:14 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Elite Veteran
Posts: 902 Location: Qld Australia
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-17 11:57 AM
I agree.......everyone can have an opinion but Tyson's comments.....well....let's just say he should stick to roping or take some advice from Caleb Driggers
WHY?????
I totally agree with what he says and am ashamed of some people and their attitudes on this board at the moment.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:14 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Elite Veteran
Posts: 902 Location: Qld Australia
Ethel - 2013-12-17 11:57 AM
Someone needs to figure out a way to pay the cowboys and cowgirls a lump some or something when they GET TO the finals.. I watched my brother make the finals 15 times, win the world twice and be BROKE when he gets there hoping he wins enough money at the finals to start the new year!! Not every year but most years.. If they can figure out how to give them more money in Florida, then go to Florida.. Las Vegas needs to up the ante to be able to keep it there.. First place money has only increased around $250 a year since they moved it to Vegas.. That's not a whole lot.. These guys are trying to make a living.. The fans will follow if they are true fans.. I would love for it to be in Dallas or OKC again.. I'm there for the rodeo not the night life.. L
Ethel - I agree with you. It is amazing me with these few threads how many people who claim to be rodeo fans who are putting the NFR on a backburner for the night life etc. If the NFR moves, there will be stalls and shopping etc this will not change. Gambling, night clubs I have no idea but still cannot understand why they are the driving force behind any people's comments.
The NFR is the NFR - that's what is the drawcard. I throw my whole support behind what the actual contestants want.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:14 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
RoadToVegas - 2013-12-16 7:50 PM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 7:47 PM Tyson needs to stick to roping.
Why? He is one of the only people that should really have a say in this lol without the contestants there would be no show. Fans who want to see the best of the best will go where ever the NFR is.
i would wager that the number of 'fans' that actually go to the performances is dwarfed by the number that maybe go to one or none and go to vegas for the experience of it all.......yes, without the performers there is no show but without a huge amount of fans showing up and spending 100s of millions of dollars, their is no big paycheck for petulant athletes......
Posted 2013-12-16 8:14 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Elite Veteran
Posts: 902 Location: Qld Australia
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-17 12:05 PM
RoadToVegas - 2013-12-16 7:50 PM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 7:47 PM Tyson needs to stick to roping.
Why? He is one of the only people that should really have a say in this lol without the contestants there would be no show. Fans who want to see the best of the best will go where ever the NFR is.
i would wager that the number of 'fans' that actually go to the performances is dwarfed by the number that maybe go to one or none and go to vegas for the experience of it all.......yes, without the performers there is no show but without a huge amount of fans showing up and spending 100s of millions of dollars, their is no big paycheck for petulant athletes......
Posted 2013-12-16 8:14 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Expert
Posts: 1488
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:05 PM
RoadToVegas - 2013-12-16 7:50 PM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 7:47 PM Tyson needs to stick to roping.
Why? He is one of the only people that should really have a say in this lol without the contestants there would be no show. Fans who want to see the best of the best will go where ever the NFR is.
i would wager that the number of 'fans' that actually go to the performances is dwarfed by the number that maybe go to one or none and go to vegas for the experience of it all.......yes, without the performers there is no show but without a huge amount of fans showing up and spending 100s of millions of dollars, their is no big paycheck for petulant athletes......
all of this
I'm all for the contestants getting all they can, but the fact is the fans are who generate the revenue to pay them.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:17 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115 Location: Arkansas
I remember all of this exact same hoopla being said when the NFR moved from OKC.. there just wasn't social media for everyone to spout off about it.. Said, "it would ruin the NFR.. NOBODY would go to Vegas.. It's not a rodeo friendly place.. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?" LOL Same things they're saying now.. But, look what happened.. It WAS better!! Hmmmm... How do we know that it can't be better?? The contestants are trying to make a living and if they can make more money then so be it.. It's THEIR lives!! It's our entertainment!! There are still some other cities in the mix.. Don't know why they singled out Orlando, so maybe it can be somewhere more central.. Orlando has offered to build a $100 million dollar facility just for the NFR.. The first year it would be at the same coliseum where the Orlando Magic play while they are building the NFR facility.. Las Vegas Events has 90 days to respond..
Las Vegas is a convention city. The NFR is not the only time of the year that the hotels all come close to selling out. Pull up the calender on the convention center website and see sometime what is going on and how many attendees are coming and what room availability is. If they move the NFR I'm sure they can pick up other business.
For what Vegas is paying the PRCA to have the NFR there, they could afford to put on their own multi day rodeo and offer huge purses to bring the big names to town anyhow.
I love to go to Vegas, sometimes multiple times a year. I have never been there for the NFR, I prefer to go in the summer when it is hot and the pools are open, but if plans worked out I'd definitely go for a rodeo, NFR or otherwise. The only reason I could see going to Florida is to get on a cruise ship or to see Disney, I would not spend the $$ on a plane ticket and hotel to go for the NFR.
I personally don't care if they move it or not and my opinion would not matter anyhow. I will still go to Vegas regardless but I hoped on one day spending some $$ on rodeo tickets and actually going to the rodeo too.
I havent read everything but here is my two cents...
I think that people forget that Vegas has taken one of the biggest economic hits than any other major city in the U.S. They may not have much more to offer than they have. I realize they make a big profit but I have yet to see a confirmed amount. You also have to consider their profit vs how much they put out for this even.
I also am with the other posters on kids. I dont think the NFR is really a "kid" place. Not just because its in Vegas and I am not in favor of bringing it to FL just because its more "family friendly." I have no desire to go to florida for water parks and disney land. If I am going to go to Florida I am going to spend my time on the beach. I also disagree that Vegas has nothing for kids. I personally do not gamble... Circus circus is a great attraction for kids. I went to multiple exhibits such as an underwater world. They have different things for kids if you want them. Vegas is more geared towards adults but kids CAN go and have fun.
I understand the contestants want more money but I am afraid a move like this will have very detrimental consequences long term on the sport and event. I think it will be a lot more expensive in Florida and I think many people will choose to pass.
I do not plan on going and I am making it a point to go for the first time in 2014!!!
It is 200 million. Yeah I think they have the money to add.... Also that number is taken off of Shane Hancheys FB post that he explained what he thought about it.
I do not have any confirmed oe validated profit totals. I have seen several different numbers on several different articles and postings. Shane's was ONE of many I have seen.
Posted 2013-12-16 8:31 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart
rockinj - 2013-12-16 6:14 PM
Ethel - 2013-12-17 11:57 AM Someone needs to figure out a way to pay the cowboys and cowgirls a lump some or something when they GET TO the finals.. I watched my brother make the finals 15 times, win the world twice and be BROKE when he gets there hoping he wins enough money at the finals to start the new year!! Not every year but most years.. If they can figure out how to give them more money in Florida, then go to Florida.. Las Vegas needs to up the ante to be able to keep it there.. First place money has only increased around $250 a year since they moved it to Vegas.. That's not a whole lot.. These guys are trying to make a living.. The fans will follow if they are true fans.. I would love for it to be in Dallas or OKC again.. I'm there for the rodeo not the night life.. L
Ethel - I agree with you. It is amazing me with these few threads how many people who claim to be rodeo fans who are putting the NFR on a backburner for the night life etc. If the NFR moves, there will be stalls and shopping etc this will not change. Gambling, night clubs I have no idea but still cannot understand why they are the driving force behind any people's comments. The NFR is the NFR - that's what is the drawcard. I throw my whole support behind what the actual contestants want.
My husband and myself make very good money, we can't afford to attend the NFR more than two nights. We paid 300.00 per ticket for a total of 1200.00, does not include the hotel or food. So for the 5 days we were there we shopped, ate, gambled, went to Stoneys (nite club) and enjoyed Vegas. I have no desire to go to Disney World. It took the Sands, Mandalay Bay and the LV convention center to hold all the cowboy Christmas's, will the Gaylord Palms be able to accommodate the vendors?
GoinJettin - 2013-12-16 8:29 PM Las Vegas is a convention city. The NFR is not the only time of the year that the hotels all come close to selling out. Pull up the calender on the convention center website and see sometime what is going on and how many attendees are coming and what room availability is. If they move the NFR I'm sure they can pick up other business.
For what Vegas is paying the PRCA to have the NFR there, they could afford to put on their own multi day rodeo and offer huge purses to bring the big names to town anyhow.
I love to go to Vegas, sometimes multiple times a year. I have never been there for the NFR, I prefer to go in the summer when it is hot and the pools are open, but if plans worked out I'd definitely go for a rodeo, NFR or otherwise. The only reason I could see going to Florida is to get on a cruise ship or to see Disney, I would not spend the $$ on a plane ticket and hotel to go for the NFR.
I personally don't care if they move it or not and my opinion would not matter anyhow. I will still go to Vegas regardless but I hoped on one day spending some $$ on rodeo tickets and actually going to the rodeo too.
orlando is a big convention area too and in that respect should be able to handle this esp with what is 'proposed' to be built but 'fans' are definitely going to have to be budgeting significantly more for a trip there versus vegas........
and then i was think about natural disasters.....over ten to twenty years....the life of this contract......not much other than sandstorms out in LV, rain, maybe snow.......but what about hurricanes???? is this area pretty safe from most of the devastation from a big hurricane ???? not talking about during NFR....talking about a couple months before....
Posted 2013-12-16 8:38 PM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864 Location: In the Hills of Texas
Ethel - 2013-12-16 8:17 PM I remember all of this exact same hoopla being said when the NFR moved from OKC.. there just wasn't social media for everyone to spout off about it.. Said, "it would ruin the NFR.. NOBODY would go to Vegas.. It's not a rodeo friendly place.. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?" LOL Same things they're saying now.. But, look what happened.. It WAS better!! Hmmmm... How do we know that it can't be better?? The contestants are trying to make a living and if they can make more money then so be it.. It's THEIR lives!! It's our entertainment!! There are still some other cities in the mix.. Don't know why they singled out Orlando, so maybe it can be somewhere more central.. Orlando has offered to build a $100 million dollar facility just for the NFR.. The first year it would be at the same coliseum where the Orlando Magic play while they are building the NFR facility.. Las Vegas Events has 90 days to respond..
It's really ridiculous still....what the contestants get paid.
I'm for whatever will put more money in the cowboy and cowgirl's pocket. It's about time they actually get paid like other athletes.
I have to say that I think this has been a good thread, actually. I haven't really said much about this because I simply don't know enough facts, but my first reaction was this is a bad move. Over the past 3 days I've learned a lot, and I'm left with the opinion that this might be a good move. I'll say one thing, and that is I applaud the PRCA's bold decision. For the longest time I've been wondering why pro rodeo isn't more profitable all the way around. Just for the hell of it I looked up a random "Ultimate Fighting" list of ticket prices for a random venue...."Duluth Georgia". The prices for that fight ranged between $70 and $220 for a night. Look at pro wrestling, which is basically a farce. One source I found quoted the "average WWF talent" earning $550,000 per year. According to Sporting News, the base salary of a NASCAR driver ranges from a low of $500,000 a year, all the way up to $10 Million a year, and that doesn't even count endorsements, which can be several million more. Hell, just for the fun of it I looked up "Professional Skateboarding"....the top 20 skateboarders are all millionaires. You never hear about people flocking from all corners of the country to watch skatboarding, do you? Now look, I realize a lot of this is like comparing apples to oranges, however, nobody can convince me that pro rodeo can't do better. NASCAR used to be where pro rodeo is today...back in the 60s and 70s. What happened? Basically, in a word, marketing. That's the one commonality between WWF, Ultimate Fighting, and NASCAR. NASCAR is now the nations #1 spectator sport. I'll bet you anything, that if you took a dozen inner city kids and spent one afternoon at a NASCAR race, and another afternoon at a PRCA rodeo, hands down, the kids would want to be a rodeo cowboy! I hope to see the day when at least the top tier rodeo competitors are REAL professionals, in the literal sense of the word.....to the extent that they actually get invited to compete at BIG rodeos and don't have to pay to put on the show out of their own pocket. Another thing is this may be a good move in terms of moving rodeo to the more densely populated east coast, where there's a greater opportunity to pique the interest of "FANS". If this works out well, I think we can all look forward to the more realistic expectation that in the not too distant future Networks like ABC, NBC, FOX, and ESPN will actually compete for the television rights for the NFR. When that happens......just watch and see.
I hope this move is partly based on a gamble to think "outside of the box" and a first step that is probably long overdue. We can only hope. I think I'm going to go to the NFR next year. Heck I even can picture taking my grandkids one day. We can do Disney, Sea World, and the NFR. I like that a hell of a lot more than some smelly Casino full of long ashen faces from losing the noight before, prostitutes, mafioso, and drug pushers.
I have to say that I think this has been a good thread, actually. I haven't really said much about this because I simply don't know enough facts, but my first reaction was this is a bad move. Over the past 3 days I've learned a lot, and I'm left with the opinion that this might be a good move. I'll say one thing, and that is I applaud the PRCA's bold decision. For the longest time I've been wondering why pro rodeo isn't more profitable all the way around. Just for the hell of it I looked up a random "Ultimate Fighting" list of ticket prices for a random venue...."Duluth Georgia". The prices for that fight ranged between $70 and $220 for a night. Look at pro wrestling, which is basically a farce. One source I found quoted the "average WWF talent" earning $550,000 per year. According to Sporting News, the base salary of a NASCAR driver ranges from a low of $500,000 a year, all the way up to $10 Million a year, and that doesn't even count endorsements, which can be several million more. Hell, just for the fun of it I looked up "Professional Skateboarding"....the top 20 skateboarders are all millionaires. You never hear about people flocking from all corners of the country to watch skatboarding, do you? Now look, I realize a lot of this is like comparing apples to oranges, however, nobody can convince me that pro rodeo can't do better. NASCAR used to be where pro rodeo is today...back in the 60s and 70s. What happened? Basically, in a word, marketing. That's the one commonality between WWF, Ultimate Fighting, and NASCAR. NASCAR is now the nations #1 spectator sport. I'll bet you anything, that if you took a dozen inner city kids and spent one afternoon at a NASCAR race, and another afternoon at a PRCA rodeo, hands down, the kids would want to be a rodeo cowboy! I hope to see the day when at least the top tier rodeo competitors are REAL professionals, in the literal sense of the word.....to the extent that they actually get invited to compete at BIG rodeos and don't have to pay to put on the show out of their own pocket. Another thing is this may be a good move in terms of moving rodeo to the more densely populated east coast, where there's a greater opportunity to pique the interest of "FANS". If this works out well, I think we can all look forward to the more realistic expectation that in the not too distant future Networks like ABC, NBC, FOX, and ESPN will actually compete for the television rights for the NFR. When that happens......just watch and see.
I hope this move is partly based on a gamble to think "outside of the box" and a first step that is probably long overdue. We can only hope. I think I'm going to go to the NFR next year. Heck I even can picture taking my grandkids one day. We can do Disney, Sea World, and the NFR. I like that a hell of a lot more than some smelly Casino full of long ashen faces from losing the noight before, prostitutes, mafioso, and drug pushers.
GoinJettin - 2013-12-16 8:29 PM Las Vegas is a convention city. The NFR is not the only time of the year that the hotels all come close to selling out. Pull up the calender on the convention center website and see sometime what is going on and how many attendees are coming and what room availability is. If they move the NFR I'm sure they can pick up other business.
For what Vegas is paying the PRCA to have the NFR there, they could afford to put on their own multi day rodeo and offer huge purses to bring the big names to town anyhow.
I love to go to Vegas, sometimes multiple times a year. I have never been there for the NFR, I prefer to go in the summer when it is hot and the pools are open, but if plans worked out I'd definitely go for a rodeo, NFR or otherwise. The only reason I could see going to Florida is to get on a cruise ship or to see Disney, I would not spend the $$ on a plane ticket and hotel to go for the NFR.
I personally don't care if they move it or not and my opinion would not matter anyhow. I will still go to Vegas regardless but I hoped on one day spending some $$ on rodeo tickets and actually going to the rodeo too.
orlando is a big convention area too and in that respect should be able to handle this esp with what is 'proposed' to be built but 'fans' are definitely going to have to be budgeting significantly more for a trip there versus vegas........
and then i was think about natural disasters.....over ten to twenty years....the life of this contract......not much other than sandstorms out in LV, rain, maybe snow.......but what about hurricanes???? is this area pretty safe from most of the devastation from a big hurricane ???? not talking about during NFR....talking about a couple months before....
Osceola County is pretty far inland, well as far inland as you can get on a peninsula anyway. But it's the widest point of the state, and I have had some pretty serious damage (2 hour south) but I have never heard of Orlando area being hard hit by any of the storm in recent past. Ocala was actually hit petty hard, but Orlando would probably not get the wind damage the coasts get. I think that's pretty safe. Never even heard of Disney closing because of storm damage.
Hurricanes in December are very rare. I wouldn't be too worried. I do remember Hurricane Lenny in 1999, and that was exceptionally late, right before Thanksgiving.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 10:12 PM I have to say that I think this has been a good thread, actually. I haven't really said much about this because I simply don't know enough facts, but my first reaction was this is a bad move. Over the past 3 days I've learned a lot, and I'm left with the opinion that this might be a good move. I'll say one thing, and that is I applaud the PRCA's bold decision.
For the longest time I've been wondering why pro rodeo isn't more profitable all the way around. Just for the hell of it I looked up a random "Ultimate Fighting" list of ticket prices for a random venue...."Duluth Georgia". The prices for that fight ranged between $70 and $220 for a night. Look at pro wrestling, which is basically a farce. One source I found quoted the "average WWF talent" earning $550,000 per year. According to Sporting News, the base salary of a NASCAR driver ranges from a low of $500,000 a year, all the way up to $10 Million a year, and that doesn't even count endorsements, which can be several million more. Hell, just for the fun of it I looked up "Professional Skateboarding"....the top 20 skateboarders are all millionaires. You never hear about people flocking from all corners of the country to watch skatboarding, do you?
Now look, I realize a lot of this is like comparing apples to oranges, however, nobody can convince me that pro rodeo can't do better.
NASCAR used to be where pro rodeo is today...back in the 60s and 70s. What happened? Basically, in a word, marketing. That's the one commonality between WWF, Ultimate Fighting, and NASCAR.
NASCAR is now the nations #1 spectator sport. I'll bet you anything, that if you took a dozen inner city kids and spent one afternoon at a NASCAR race, and another afternoon at a PRCA rodeo, hands down, the kids would want to be a rodeo cowboy! I hope to see the day when at least the top tier rodeo competitors are REAL professionals, in the literal sense of the word.....to the extent that they actually get invited to compete at BIG rodeos and don't have to pay to put on the show out of their own pocket.
Another thing is this may be a good move in terms of moving rodeo to the more densely populated east coast, where there's a greater opportunity to pique the interest of "FANS". If this works out well, I think we can all look forward to the more realistic expectation that in the not too distant future Networks like ABC, NBC, FOX, and ESPN will actually compete for the television rights for the NFR. When that happens......just watch and see.
I hope this move is partly based on a gamble to think "outside of the box" and a first step that is probably long overdue. We can only hope. I think I'm going to go to the NFR next year. Heck I even can picture taking my grandkids one day. We can do Disney, Sea World, and the NFR. I like that a hell of a lot more than some smelly Casino full of long ashen faces from losing the noight before, prostitutes, mafioso, and drug pushers.
I could not agree more (don't care where or if they move it). I have often wondered why the money isn't better. But the Skateboarders and NASCAR are all Sponsor supported. Not totally, but a major part of the money comes from major sponsors. Rodeo has to fight the PETA and Shark type organizations and people that do not understand livestock or animals at all for that matter. I believe that will be a hugh battle. Yet the Race Horse industry seems to have gotten around that hurdle, at least enough to profit (I think).
I would also love to see the PRCA-WPRA money spread out around the country more. I know the rodeo tradition is in the West, and I understand but one reason the contestants from the weat are so numerous is partially because if you live on the east coast...it's hard to earn enough money to make the NFR. And the more spread out the money is the more spectators you get. I know that's a product of getting big sponsors from this area, but I think the marketing is a gigantic part of why it's not bigger everywhere (the money I mean).
I have to say that I think this has been a good thread, actually. I haven't really said much about this because I simply don't know enough facts, but my first reaction was this is a bad move. Over the past 3 days I've learned a lot, and I'm left with the opinion that this might be a good move. I'll say one thing, and that is I applaud the PRCA's bold decision. For the longest time I've been wondering why pro rodeo isn't more profitable all the way around. Just for the hell of it I looked up a random "Ultimate Fighting" list of ticket prices for a random venue...."Duluth Georgia". The prices for that fight ranged between $70 and $220 for a night. Look at pro wrestling, which is basically a farce. One source I found quoted the "average WWF talent" earning $550,000 per year. According to Sporting News, the base salary of a NASCAR driver ranges from a low of $500,000 a year, all the way up to $10 Million a year, and that doesn't even count endorsements, which can be several million more. Hell, just for the fun of it I looked up "Professional Skateboarding"....the top 20 skateboarders are all millionaires. You never hear about people flocking from all corners of the country to watch skatboarding, do you? Now look, I realize a lot of this is like comparing apples to oranges, however, nobody can convince me that pro rodeo can't do better. NASCAR used to be where pro rodeo is today...back in the 60s and 70s. What happened? Basically, in a word, marketing. That's the one commonality between WWF, Ultimate Fighting, and NASCAR. NASCAR is now the nations #1 spectator sport. I'll bet you anything, that if you took a dozen inner city kids and spent one afternoon at a NASCAR race, and another afternoon at a PRCA rodeo, hands down, the kids would want to be a rodeo cowboy! I hope to see the day when at least the top tier rodeo competitors are REAL professionals, in the literal sense of the word.....to the extent that they actually get invited to compete at BIG rodeos and don't have to pay to put on the show out of their own pocket. Another thing is this may be a good move in terms of moving rodeo to the more densely populated east coast, where there's a greater opportunity to pique the interest of "FANS". If this works out well, I think we can all look forward to the more realistic expectation that in the not too distant future Networks like ABC, NBC, FOX, and ESPN will actually compete for the television rights for the NFR. When that happens......just watch and see.
I hope this move is partly based on a gamble to think "outside of the box" and a first step that is probably long overdue. We can only hope. I think I'm going to go to the NFR next year. Heck I even can picture taking my grandkids one day. We can do Disney, Sea World, and the NFR. I like that a hell of a lot more than some smelly Casino full of long ashen faces from losing the noight before, prostitutes, mafioso, and drug pushers.
I think your reasoning and examples are the best I have seen.
I am one of the few people that HATE Vegas but don't like Florida much more unless its to scuba dive. I LOVED the finals in OKC back in the day.
But I digress - again, I agree with you more than any post I have read. Well though out - good job!!!
Bibliafarm - 2013-12-15 8:21 PM The livestock and horses will die .. in the heat here.. its winter but not cold down south. its clearly in the 80's.. coming from northern states with their winter coats and acclimated to cold.. it will be very hard on them here.. bad decision .. stay in cold climates.
That is ridiculous!
NO Kidding. it is tongue in cheek.. good grief.. They will have to acclimate but NO kidding.
I have to say that I think this has been a good thread, actually. I haven't really said much about this because I simply don't know enough facts, but my first reaction was this is a bad move. Over the past 3 days I've learned a lot, and I'm left with the opinion that this might be a good move. I'll say one thing, and that is I applaud the PRCA's bold decision. For the longest time I've been wondering why pro rodeo isn't more profitable all the way around. Just for the hell of it I looked up a random "Ultimate Fighting" list of ticket prices for a random venue...."Duluth Georgia". The prices for that fight ranged between $70 and $220 for a night. Look at pro wrestling, which is basically a farce. One source I found quoted the "average WWF talent" earning $550,000 per year. According to Sporting News, the base salary of a NASCAR driver ranges from a low of $500,000 a year, all the way up to $10 Million a year, and that doesn't even count endorsements, which can be several million more. Hell, just for the fun of it I looked up "Professional Skateboarding"....the top 20 skateboarders are all millionaires. You never hear about people flocking from all corners of the country to watch skatboarding, do you? Now look, I realize a lot of this is like comparing apples to oranges, however, nobody can convince me that pro rodeo can't do better. NASCAR used to be where pro rodeo is today...back in the 60s and 70s. What happened? Basically, in a word, marketing. That's the one commonality between WWF, Ultimate Fighting, and NASCAR. NASCAR is now the nations #1 spectator sport. I'll bet you anything, that if you took a dozen inner city kids and spent one afternoon at a NASCAR race, and another afternoon at a PRCA rodeo, hands down, the kids would want to be a rodeo cowboy! I hope to see the day when at least the top tier rodeo competitors are REAL professionals, in the literal sense of the word.....to the extent that they actually get invited to compete at BIG rodeos and don't have to pay to put on the show out of their own pocket. Another thing is this may be a good move in terms of moving rodeo to the more densely populated east coast, where there's a greater opportunity to pique the interest of "FANS". If this works out well, I think we can all look forward to the more realistic expectation that in the not too distant future Networks like ABC, NBC, FOX, and ESPN will actually compete for the television rights for the NFR. When that happens......just watch and see.
I hope this move is partly based on a gamble to think "outside of the box" and a first step that is probably long overdue. We can only hope. I think I'm going to go to the NFR next year. Heck I even can picture taking my grandkids one day. We can do Disney, Sea World, and the NFR. I like that a hell of a lot more than some smelly Casino full of long ashen faces from losing the noight before, prostitutes, mafioso, and drug pushers.
as someone who grew up around horses/rodeo scene (like pretty much everyone else on here) I just don't think rodeo can get anywhere close to the "pro sports" level. a couple of random thoughts - if you want to watch the NFL you have 14-16 games a week that you can choose to either attend or watch at the house. as an advertiser, which game will you choose? nascar has one "game" at one location a week and if you want to watch the nascar race on a sunday afternoon, you have that one choice. little bit easier as an advertiser to pick where to spend your $$.
I agree with the statement that given the opportunity of experiencing multiple sports (to include rodeo) youth may lean towards rodeo. the reality is that not many teenage boys/girls that live in a cookie cutter subdivision with "non horsey" parents will be able to make that rodeo dream come true.
a saddle pad costs $200+, which doesn't get one far in the horse world, and for about that same amount a kid can outfit themselves with any of the following: basketball and goal, a skateboard, about half a bag of golf clubs, or just about anything else sports related to get them started.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 9:12 PM I have to say that I think this has been a good thread, actually. I haven't really said much about this because I simply don't know enough facts, but my first reaction was this is a bad move. Over the past 3 days I've learned a lot, and I'm left with the opinion that this might be a good move. I'll say one thing, and that is I applaud the PRCA's bold decision.
For the longest time I've been wondering why pro rodeo isn't more profitable all the way around. Just for the hell of it I looked up a random "Ultimate Fighting" list of ticket prices for a random venue...."Duluth Georgia". The prices for that fight ranged between $70 and $220 for a night. Look at pro wrestling, which is basically a farce. One source I found quoted the "average WWF talent" earning $550,000 per year. According to Sporting News, the base salary of a NASCAR driver ranges from a low of $500,000 a year, all the way up to $10 Million a year, and that doesn't even count endorsements, which can be several million more. Hell, just for the fun of it I looked up "Professional Skateboarding"....the top 20 skateboarders are all millionaires. You never hear about people flocking from all corners of the country to watch skatboarding, do you?
Now look, I realize a lot of this is like comparing apples to oranges, however, nobody can convince me that pro rodeo can't do better.
NASCAR used to be where pro rodeo is today...back in the 60s and 70s. What happened? Basically, in a word, marketing. That's the one commonality between WWF, Ultimate Fighting, and NASCAR.
NASCAR is now the nations #1 spectator sport. I'll bet you anything, that if you took a dozen inner city kids and spent one afternoon at a NASCAR race, and another afternoon at a PRCA rodeo, hands down, the kids would want to be a rodeo cowboy! I hope to see the day when at least the top tier rodeo competitors are REAL professionals, in the literal sense of the word.....to the extent that they actually get invited to compete at BIG rodeos and don't have to pay to put on the show out of their own pocket.
Another thing is this may be a good move in terms of moving rodeo to the more densely populated east coast, where there's a greater opportunity to pique the interest of "FANS". If this works out well, I think we can all look forward to the more realistic expectation that in the not too distant future Networks like ABC, NBC, FOX, and ESPN will actually compete for the television rights for the NFR. When that happens......just watch and see.
I hope this move is partly based on a gamble to think "outside of the box" and a first step that is probably long overdue. We can only hope. I think I'm going to go to the NFR next year. Heck I even can picture taking my grandkids one day. We can do Disney, Sea World, and the NFR. I like that a hell of a lot more than some smelly Casino full of long ashen faces from losing the noight before, prostitutes, mafioso, and drug pushers.
as someone who grew up around horses/rodeo scene (like pretty much everyone else on here) I just don't think rodeo can get anywhere close to the "pro sports" level. a couple of random thoughts - if you want to watch the NFL you have 14-16 games a week that you can choose to either attend or watch at the house. as an advertiser, which game will you choose? nascar has one "game" at one location a week and if you want to watch the nascar race on a sunday afternoon, you have that one choice. little bit easier as an advertiser to pick where to spend your $$. I agree with the statement that given the opportunity of experiencing multiple sports (to include rodeo) youth may lean towards rodeo. the reality is that not many teenage boys/girls that live in a cookie cutter subdivision with "non horsey" parents will be able to make that rodeo dream come true. a saddle pad costs $200+, which doesn't get one far in the horse world, and for about that same amount a kid can outfit themselves with any of the following: basketball and goal, a skateboard, about half a bag of golf clubs, or just about anything else sports related to get them started.
I'm not saying any of those sports are the same....hence my "apples and oranges" qualifier. How the hell does a professional wrestler deserve more than a pro cowboy/cowgirl? It's all about exposure and marketing and you have to try something new, when the status quo is that little progress is made over a span of nearly 3 decades. I don't see how they can do much worse. I'd love to see more PRCA rodeos on the East Coast. As far as the cost of tack and horses for a kid, I guess you haven't had a kid who was seriously into hockey! Between the equipment, ice time, and camps, you can spend a fortune.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 9:12 PM I have to say that I think this has been a good thread, actually. I haven't really said much about this because I simply don't know enough facts, but my first reaction was this is a bad move. Over the past 3 days I've learned a lot, and I'm left with the opinion that this might be a good move. I'll say one thing, and that is I applaud the PRCA's bold decision.
For the longest time I've been wondering why pro rodeo isn't more profitable all the way around. Just for the hell of it I looked up a random "Ultimate Fighting" list of ticket prices for a random venue...."Duluth Georgia". The prices for that fight ranged between $70 and $220 for a night. Look at pro wrestling, which is basically a farce. One source I found quoted the "average WWF talent" earning $550,000 per year. According to Sporting News, the base salary of a NASCAR driver ranges from a low of $500,000 a year, all the way up to $10 Million a year, and that doesn't even count endorsements, which can be several million more. Hell, just for the fun of it I looked up "Professional Skateboarding"....the top 20 skateboarders are all millionaires. You never hear about people flocking from all corners of the country to watch skatboarding, do you?
Now look, I realize a lot of this is like comparing apples to oranges, however, nobody can convince me that pro rodeo can't do better.
NASCAR used to be where pro rodeo is today...back in the 60s and 70s. What happened? Basically, in a word, marketing. That's the one commonality between WWF, Ultimate Fighting, and NASCAR.
NASCAR is now the nations #1 spectator sport. I'll bet you anything, that if you took a dozen inner city kids and spent one afternoon at a NASCAR race, and another afternoon at a PRCA rodeo, hands down, the kids would want to be a rodeo cowboy! I hope to see the day when at least the top tier rodeo competitors are REAL professionals, in the literal sense of the word.....to the extent that they actually get invited to compete at BIG rodeos and don't have to pay to put on the show out of their own pocket.
Another thing is this may be a good move in terms of moving rodeo to the more densely populated east coast, where there's a greater opportunity to pique the interest of "FANS". If this works out well, I think we can all look forward to the more realistic expectation that in the not too distant future Networks like ABC, NBC, FOX, and ESPN will actually compete for the television rights for the NFR. When that happens......just watch and see.
I hope this move is partly based on a gamble to think "outside of the box" and a first step that is probably long overdue. We can only hope. I think I'm going to go to the NFR next year. Heck I even can picture taking my grandkids one day. We can do Disney, Sea World, and the NFR. I like that a hell of a lot more than some smelly Casino full of long ashen faces from losing the noight before, prostitutes, mafioso, and drug pushers.
Keep in mind PRCA/WPRA is a unique "sport" in the way players are funneled to the finals. So to compare to other sports isn't just apples and oranges. It is more like apples and fire wood.
One of the cool things about rodeo is that every kid can grow up with the dream and a realistic shot. Not so much for NASCAR, NFL , etc.... I am all about building a better customer base. But, even on BHW there is a thread with people wondering who Joe Beaver is.......
Heck we lost the Bull Fight tour years ago because of lack of sponsor money. And believe me there has been plenty of work done to bring it back.
Moving to FL or any place else is not going to magically fix these issues. PRCA is doing a much better job of marketing but they have a ways to go. And the WPRA couldn't even get current results up on their web site.
I would LOVE to see both orgaizations spend more time in promoting the local rodeo. Help get the citizens in the seats. Talk to the kids about how to get started in rodeo. We are not getting new members by the numbers we need to sustain. The PRCA should be paying a retired Gold buckle member to go out and promote. Kids need to meet the heros of our sport. I was 9 years old when I met Martha Josey. It blew my mind and made such a hugh impression. And to hear her story made me believe anything was possible.
Hopefully the talking heads at PRCA are smarter about this than the last time they decided to become a "Sports" venue and not rodeo. As I stated before it darned near was the end of the PRCA.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 9:12 PM I have to say that I think this has been a good thread, actually. I haven't really said much about this because I simply don't know enough facts, but my first reaction was this is a bad move. Over the past 3 days I've learned a lot, and I'm left with the opinion that this might be a good move. I'll say one thing, and that is I applaud the PRCA's bold decision.
For the longest time I've been wondering why pro rodeo isn't more profitable all the way around. Just for the hell of it I looked up a random "Ultimate Fighting" list of ticket prices for a random venue...."Duluth Georgia". The prices for that fight ranged between $70 and $220 for a night. Look at pro wrestling, which is basically a farce. One source I found quoted the "average WWF talent" earning $550,000 per year. According to Sporting News, the base salary of a NASCAR driver ranges from a low of $500,000 a year, all the way up to $10 Million a year, and that doesn't even count endorsements, which can be several million more. Hell, just for the fun of it I looked up "Professional Skateboarding"....the top 20 skateboarders are all millionaires. You never hear about people flocking from all corners of the country to watch skatboarding, do you?
Now look, I realize a lot of this is like comparing apples to oranges, however, nobody can convince me that pro rodeo can't do better.
NASCAR used to be where pro rodeo is today...back in the 60s and 70s. What happened? Basically, in a word, marketing. That's the one commonality between WWF, Ultimate Fighting, and NASCAR.
NASCAR is now the nations #1 spectator sport. I'll bet you anything, that if you took a dozen inner city kids and spent one afternoon at a NASCAR race, and another afternoon at a PRCA rodeo, hands down, the kids would want to be a rodeo cowboy! I hope to see the day when at least the top tier rodeo competitors are REAL professionals, in the literal sense of the word.....to the extent that they actually get invited to compete at BIG rodeos and don't have to pay to put on the show out of their own pocket.
Another thing is this may be a good move in terms of moving rodeo to the more densely populated east coast, where there's a greater opportunity to pique the interest of "FANS". If this works out well, I think we can all look forward to the more realistic expectation that in the not too distant future Networks like ABC, NBC, FOX, and ESPN will actually compete for the television rights for the NFR. When that happens......just watch and see.
I hope this move is partly based on a gamble to think "outside of the box" and a first step that is probably long overdue. We can only hope. I think I'm going to go to the NFR next year. Heck I even can picture taking my grandkids one day. We can do Disney, Sea World, and the NFR. I like that a hell of a lot more than some smelly Casino full of long ashen faces from losing the noight before, prostitutes, mafioso, and drug pushers.
as someone who grew up around horses/rodeo scene (like pretty much everyone else on here) I just don't think rodeo can get anywhere close to the "pro sports" level. a couple of random thoughts - if you want to watch the NFL you have 14-16 games a week that you can choose to either attend or watch at the house. as an advertiser, which game will you choose? nascar has one "game" at one location a week and if you want to watch the nascar race on a sunday afternoon, you have that one choice. little bit easier as an advertiser to pick where to spend your $$. I agree with the statement that given the opportunity of experiencing multiple sports (to include rodeo) youth may lean towards rodeo. the reality is that not many teenage boys/girls that live in a cookie cutter subdivision with "non horsey" parents will be able to make that rodeo dream come true. a saddle pad costs $200+, which doesn't get one far in the horse world, and for about that same amount a kid can outfit themselves with any of the following: basketball and goal, a skateboard, about half a bag of golf clubs, or just about anything else sports related to get them started.
I'm not saying any of those sports are the same....hence my "apples and oranges" qualifier. How the hell does a professional wrestler deserve more than a pro cowboy/cowgirl? It's all about exposure and marketing and you have to try something new, when the status quo is that little progress is made over a span of nearly 3 decades. I don't see how they can do much worse. I'd love to see more PRCA rodeos on the East Coast. As far as the cost of tack and horses for a kid, I guess you haven't had a kid who was seriously into hockey! Between the equipment, ice time, and camps, you can spend a fortune.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 9:12 PM I have to say that I think this has been a good thread, actually. I haven't really said much about this because I simply don't know enough facts, but my first reaction was this is a bad move. Over the past 3 days I've learned a lot, and I'm left with the opinion that this might be a good move. I'll say one thing, and that is I applaud the PRCA's bold decision.
For the longest time I've been wondering why pro rodeo isn't more profitable all the way around. Just for the hell of it I looked up a random "Ultimate Fighting" list of ticket prices for a random venue...."Duluth Georgia". The prices for that fight ranged between $70 and $220 for a night. Look at pro wrestling, which is basically a farce. One source I found quoted the "average WWF talent" earning $550,000 per year. According to Sporting News, the base salary of a NASCAR driver ranges from a low of $500,000 a year, all the way up to $10 Million a year, and that doesn't even count endorsements, which can be several million more. Hell, just for the fun of it I looked up "Professional Skateboarding"....the top 20 skateboarders are all millionaires. You never hear about people flocking from all corners of the country to watch skatboarding, do you?
Now look, I realize a lot of this is like comparing apples to oranges, however, nobody can convince me that pro rodeo can't do better.
NASCAR used to be where pro rodeo is today...back in the 60s and 70s. What happened? Basically, in a word, marketing. That's the one commonality between WWF, Ultimate Fighting, and NASCAR.
NASCAR is now the nations #1 spectator sport. I'll bet you anything, that if you took a dozen inner city kids and spent one afternoon at a NASCAR race, and another afternoon at a PRCA rodeo, hands down, the kids would want to be a rodeo cowboy! I hope to see the day when at least the top tier rodeo competitors are REAL professionals, in the literal sense of the word.....to the extent that they actually get invited to compete at BIG rodeos and don't have to pay to put on the show out of their own pocket.
Another thing is this may be a good move in terms of moving rodeo to the more densely populated east coast, where there's a greater opportunity to pique the interest of "FANS". If this works out well, I think we can all look forward to the more realistic expectation that in the not too distant future Networks like ABC, NBC, FOX, and ESPN will actually compete for the television rights for the NFR. When that happens......just watch and see.
I hope this move is partly based on a gamble to think "outside of the box" and a first step that is probably long overdue. We can only hope. I think I'm going to go to the NFR next year. Heck I even can picture taking my grandkids one day. We can do Disney, Sea World, and the NFR. I like that a hell of a lot more than some smelly Casino full of long ashen faces from losing the noight before, prostitutes, mafioso, and drug pushers.
Keep in mind PRCA/WPRA is a unique "sport" in the way players are funneled to the finals. So to compare to other sports isn't just apples and oranges. It is more like apples and fire wood.
One of the cool things about rodeo is that every kid can grow up with the dream and a realistic shot. Not so much for NASCAR, NFL , etc.... I am all about building a better customer base. But, even on BHW there is a thread with people wondering who Joe Beaver is.......
Heck we lost the Bull Fight tour years ago because of lack of sponsor money. And believe me there has been plenty of work done to bring it back.
Moving to FL or any place else is not going to magically fix these issues. PRCA is doing a much better job of marketing but they have a ways to go. And the WPRA couldn't even get current results up on their web site.
I would LOVE to see both orgaizations spend more time in promoting the local rodeo. Help get the citizens in the seats. Talk to the kids about how to get started in rodeo. We are not getting new members by the numbers we need to sustain. The PRCA should be paying a retired Gold buckle member to go out and promote. Kids need to meet the heros of our sport. I was 9 years old when I met Martha Josey. It blew my mind and made such a hugh impression. And to hear her story made me believe anything was possible.
Hopefully the talking heads at PRCA are smarter about this than the last time they decided to become a "Sports" venue and not rodeo. As I stated before it darned near was the end of the PRCA.
karen
I agree with the highlighted part. The effort needs to be made on several levels. I used "apples and oranges" to emphasize there are differences between those other "sports" and rodeo, and I agree rodeo is unique. In NASCAR, for example, every driver is basically part of a multimillion dollar franchise, but they went from where they were in the 60s to the #1 spectator sport in the country. All I am saying, is maybe they ought to take a few pages from their playbook. This move to Orlando might be a huge boost for rodeo along the eastern seaboard. I wonder how this might play out with the executives at NBC/Comcast/Disney? Could that somehow be in the equation? Just thinking out loud.
If I had a choice to take a family somewhere for a winter vacation, I think Orlando in early December would be fantastic. It's a heck of a lot more family friendly than Vegas if your family includes young kids.
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 9:55 PM Want better payout. Support the current sponsors and help find new ones.
And could someone point out Where in the FL press release it says the contestants are getting better money?
Then keep in mind that the PRCA is able to increase the payout anytime they want. The NFR rules and regs have not been written by LVE.
karen
I wouldn't expect the payouts to be drammatically better for the first few years. I certainly wouldn't expect them to be worse, either. Orlando is making a huge committment, and that tells me a lot. I can see NBC/Disney potentially involved with promotion, and that might well include television. As far as supporting sponsors....well, the NFR ran the same 5-6 ads for 10 days. I promise I will never buy one of those pizzas, and I don't like whiskey (Pendleton Wiskey - neat ad though), and I don't have a need for a recliner. I already drive a Dodge pickup! LOL
Posted 2013-12-16 10:59 PM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Location: Texas
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-16 4:47 PM
Ask anyone in Vegas and they will tell you the NFR keeps the city alive during the "dead" time until New Year Eve. They are not going to lose the RODEO CROWD. Im ready to see what they have up their sleeve. I wouldnt doubt that it will be something like "The American" as a series through the year, that finishes up in Vegas. Way too fishy that the PRCA dropped GAC and RFD and now they are set on moving from Las Vegas as well.
The PRCA is finally listening and standing behind their contestants. It was the contestants that banded together and said, enough is enough, if Vegas wants us here then they need to step up to the plate. The PRCA Board of Directors did not make this move on their own, it was contestant driven. So forget your conspiracy theories, there isn't one here. And I for one applaud the cowboy/cowgirl for finally pushing back
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 9:55 PM Want better payout. Support the current sponsors and help find new ones.
And could someone point out Where in the FL press release it says the contestants are getting better money?
Then keep in mind that the PRCA is able to increase the payout anytime they want. The NFR rules and regs have not been written by LVE.
karen
I wouldn't expect the payouts to be drammatically better for the first few years. I certainly wouldn't expect them to be worse, either. Orlando is making a huge committment, and that tells me a lot. I can see NBC/Disney potentially involved with promotion, and that might well include television. As far as supporting sponsors....well, the NFR ran the same 5-6 ads for 10 days. I promise I will never buy one of those pizzas, and I don't like whiskey (Pendleton Wiskey - neat ad though), and I don't have a need for a recliner. I already drive a Dodge pickup! LOL
Okay pick your favorite wine and get them on board.
Before Pendelton it was Crown. Both have been great sponsors and obviously both have benefited from the relationship. I can think of a number of "out of the box" companies that would be great sponsors.
Seriously I don't want NBC nor Disney to have ANY say in what happens with the NFR. That is when you lose control and it becomes a made for TV production.
I would like to see the PRCA and WPRA get serious about marketing their brand. Working together to pick up new, unique sponsors. If they would build the product the TV coverage, etc. would come.
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 9:55 PM Want better payout. Support the current sponsors and help find new ones.
And could someone point out Where in the FL press release it says the contestants are getting better money?
Then keep in mind that the PRCA is able to increase the payout anytime they want. The NFR rules and regs have not been written by LVE.
karen
I wouldn't expect the payouts to be drammatically better for the first few years. I certainly wouldn't expect them to be worse, either. Orlando is making a huge committment, and that tells me a lot. I can see NBC/Disney potentially involved with promotion, and that might well include television. As far as supporting sponsors....well, the NFR ran the same 5-6 ads for 10 days. I promise I will never buy one of those pizzas, and I don't like whiskey (Pendleton Wiskey - neat ad though), and I don't have a need for a recliner. I already drive a Dodge pickup! LOL
Okay pick your favorite wine and get them on board.
Before Pendelton it was Crown. Both have been great sponsors and obviously both have benefited from the relationship. I can think of a number of "out of the box" companies that would be great sponsors.
Seriously I don't want NBC nor Disney to have ANY say in what happens with the NFR. That is when you lose control and it becomes a made for TV production.
I would like to see the PRCA and WPRA get serious about marketing their brand. Working together to pick up new, unique sponsors. If they would build the product the TV coverage, etc. would come.
karen
I agree...
The word on the street is Florida offered 4 million more in prize money and the rounds would pay $30,000 and the average $100,000. That's double for the average and $12,000 for a go round win. If I was a contestant..I would be packing for Florida.
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 9:55 PM Want better payout. Support the current sponsors and help find new ones.
And could someone point out Where in the FL press release it says the contestants are getting better money?
Then keep in mind that the PRCA is able to increase the payout anytime they want. The NFR rules and regs have not been written by LVE.
karen
I wouldn't expect the payouts to be drammatically better for the first few years. I certainly wouldn't expect them to be worse, either. Orlando is making a huge committment, and that tells me a lot. I can see NBC/Disney potentially involved with promotion, and that might well include television. As far as supporting sponsors....well, the NFR ran the same 5-6 ads for 10 days. I promise I will never buy one of those pizzas, and I don't like whiskey (Pendleton Wiskey - neat ad though), and I don't have a need for a recliner. I already drive a Dodge pickup! LOL
Okay pick your favorite wine and get them on board.
Before Pendelton it was Crown. Both have been great sponsors and obviously both have benefited from the relationship. I can think of a number of "out of the box" companies that would be great sponsors.
Seriously I don't want NBC nor Disney to have ANY say in what happens with the NFR. That is when you lose control and it becomes a made for TV production.
I would like to see the PRCA and WPRA get serious about marketing their brand. Working together to pick up new, unique sponsors. If they would build the product the TV coverage, etc. would come.
karen
I agree...
The word on the street is Florida offered 4 million more in prize money and the rounds would pay $30,000 and the average $100,000. That's double for the average and $12,000 for a go round win. If I was a contestant..I would be packing for Florida.
When my daughter gave me those same number increases I have to say it impressed the heck out of me. I can see why the contestants will put up with traveling all the way across the country for it. I can't imagine those on the Pacific NW and Alberta. That's going to be a heck of a haul. I also wonder about the Canadian quarantine problem too.
I wish you all could read the posts on Charlie Horky's page on facebook.. He and Jade Corkill and some others have made some really good points.. I wish it would let me copy and paste but, it won't.. Charlie lives is Vegas and owns one of the largest limo companies there.. He is who has the Hork Dog roping every year too.. He also is generous enough to fly some of the cowboys from rodeo to rodeo during the 4th or when they need it on his private jet.. I think we can all see where this is heading.. Calgary, Houston, Vegas and whoever else will have a huge finals like The American.. And it will pay like a slot machine!! There are some BIG ideas being floated around..
Karen, I was just thinking of NBC/Disney in terms of televising the NFR. Maybe it's far fetched. I think it's possible that the NBC Sports Network Channel might be a possibility. Seems like a good potential match with Orlando, Disney, NBC, etc.....
Posted 2013-12-17 1:43 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Although Vegas is a good place for the fans, it is definitely not the best venue for the contestants. The arena is very small and really not the best for any event with the exception of the bull riding since most of the bulls come out of the chute, don't go very far and just start spinning (so they don't need much room.) It is not a good sized arena for the steer wrestlers, calf ropers, team ropers or barrel racers. And not very good for the bronc riders.
Also, the warm up facilities are substandard - the contestants have to warm up in a circus tent with some dirt thrown on top of the paved parking lot. Not the best situation.
When Vegas first got the NFR contract, they promised lots of things such as larger payouts to the contestants as the years went on (which happened to a degree in the beginning, but I believe the payout has only increased by about $4000 since 2004), and they even "semi-promised" building a new equestrian facility with a larger arena, better warm up and barns, etc. and that has never happened.
I don't blame the Cowboys/Cowgirls and PRCA for entertaining other options that could possibly be more lucrative for the contestants. I understand the fans are very important, but I think a priority should be making sure the contestants are taken care of. I believe that the wonderful fans of Pro Rodeo and the NFR will come and support our great sport no matter where the NFR is held.
And don't forget........Las Vegas does have the option of "upping the ante" in their location and offering a bid that can match or beat the other locations. They do have a choice in this matter and if they choose not to do so that is their decision. JMHO.......
Posted 2013-12-17 3:07 AM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 8:14 PM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:05 PM
RoadToVegas - 2013-12-16 7:50 PM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 7:47 PM Tyson needs to stick to roping.
Why? He is one of the only people that should really have a say in this lol without the contestants there would be no show. Fans who want to see the best of the best will go where ever the NFR is.
i would wager that the number of 'fans' that actually go to the performances is dwarfed by the number that maybe go to one or none and go to vegas for the experience of it all.......yes, without the performers there is no show but without a huge amount of fans showing up and spending 100s of millions of dollars, their is no big paycheck for petulant athletes......
all of this
I'm all for the contestants getting all they can, but the fact is the fans are who generate the revenue to pay them.
Yes, and if some cities are willing to pay more than Vegas then what's the problem? Do you think the people making those offers aren't smart enough to know what they are doing??? Lol
Posted 2013-12-17 6:51 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
Swannranch - 2013-12-16 9:39 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 10:12 PM I have to say that I think this has been a good thread, actually. I haven't really said much about this because I simply don't know enough facts, but my first reaction was this is a bad move. Over the past 3 days I've learned a lot, and I'm left with the opinion that this might be a good move. I'll say one thing, and that is I applaud the PRCA's bold decision.
For the longest time I've been wondering why pro rodeo isn't more profitable all the way around. Just for the hell of it I looked up a random "Ultimate Fighting" list of ticket prices for a random venue...."Duluth Georgia". The prices for that fight ranged between $70 and $220 for a night. Look at pro wrestling, which is basically a farce. One source I found quoted the "average WWF talent" earning $550,000 per year. According to Sporting News, the base salary of a NASCAR driver ranges from a low of $500,000 a year, all the way up to $10 Million a year, and that doesn't even count endorsements, which can be several million more. Hell, just for the fun of it I looked up "Professional Skateboarding"....the top 20 skateboarders are all millionaires. You never hear about people flocking from all corners of the country to watch skatboarding, do you?
Now look, I realize a lot of this is like comparing apples to oranges, however, nobody can convince me that pro rodeo can't do better.
NASCAR used to be where pro rodeo is today...back in the 60s and 70s. What happened? Basically, in a word, marketing. That's the one commonality between WWF, Ultimate Fighting, and NASCAR.
NASCAR is now the nations #1 spectator sport. I'll bet you anything, that if you took a dozen inner city kids and spent one afternoon at a NASCAR race, and another afternoon at a PRCA rodeo, hands down, the kids would want to be a rodeo cowboy! I hope to see the day when at least the top tier rodeo competitors are REAL professionals, in the literal sense of the word.....to the extent that they actually get invited to compete at BIG rodeos and don't have to pay to put on the show out of their own pocket.
Another thing is this may be a good move in terms of moving rodeo to the more densely populated east coast, where there's a greater opportunity to pique the interest of "FANS". If this works out well, I think we can all look forward to the more realistic expectation that in the not too distant future Networks like ABC, NBC, FOX, and ESPN will actually compete for the television rights for the NFR. When that happens......just watch and see.
I hope this move is partly based on a gamble to think "outside of the box" and a first step that is probably long overdue. We can only hope. I think I'm going to go to the NFR next year. Heck I even can picture taking my grandkids one day. We can do Disney, Sea World, and the NFR. I like that a hell of a lot more than some smelly Casino full of long ashen faces from losing the noight before, prostitutes, mafioso, and drug pushers.
I could not agree more (don't care where or if they move it). I have often wondered why the money isn't better. But the Skateboarders and NASCAR are all Sponsor supported. Not totally, but a major part of the money comes from major sponsors.
Rodeo has to fight the PETA and Shark type organizations and people that do not understand livestock or animals at all for that matter. I believe that will be a hugh battle. Yet the Race Horse industry seems to have gotten around that hurdle, at least enough to profit (I think).
I would also love to see the PRCA-WPRA money spread out around the country more. I know the rodeo tradition is in the West, and I understand but one reason the contestants from the weat are so numerous is partially because if you live on the east coast...it's hard to earn enough money to make the NFR. And the more spread out the money is the more spectators you get. I know that's a product of getting big sponsors from this area, but I think the marketing is a gigantic part of why it's not bigger everywhere (the money I mean).
Race horse industry has gambling money. Without the wagering, racing would fold. PRCA should apply for wagering license. People could bet on the rodeo contestants per rodeo. That would generate ALOT of money, and new interests.
Posted 2013-12-17 7:15 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hugs to You
Posts: 7551 Location: In The Land of Cotton
While rodeo needs new investments/interests, marketing will be the key. Also, dealing with quarratine on the animals. I read alot on the FL web page. A lot of othe rodeo bucking stock are exempt from some of the regulations. What it will boil down to on the FL requirements for health certificates, etc. is that the contestants will have to do more paperwork and research. But, that is why they are professional. The first year will be hectic and then they will learn the ropes. Going from 32 degree weather to 80 degree weather will really make it hard on the animals. I see this as a problem for the participants.
Orlando is more family friendly for those of the spectators who wish to take their children. But, it will not be cheap. And, decent hotels are not cheap. Traveling in that area is horrid to say the least. Traveling sometimes takes more than an hour to go 14 miles.
I understand and support the fact that the participants need/want to be paid more. But, please WPRA and PRCA listen and make wise decisions.
Posted 2013-12-17 7:29 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
In terms of expanding interest in rodeo.... I work in downtown Chicago.... I'm sorry, but the folks I work with have ZERO interest in rodeo. I mean none. Unfortunately a lot of the country is like that- most of our nation's population is in large cities and suburbs. I think the majority of our population have come too far from rural life to have any desire to follow rodeo. While I was one of the lucky subdivision kids whose parents got them into horses, I am not the norm. My folks are not horse people.
I'll be honest, while I have the utmost respect for the contestants, I don't really follow rodeo myself until the NFR. I think I'm like a majority of fans, as well... Vegas offers a lot to the pseudo-fan like me... adult atmosphere, lots to see, great resturaunts, and nightlife (though I really don't drink, others go places to party). Come on...it's VEGAS! To deny the fact that the environment of Vegas is a draw to people, helping to sell out performances, would be silly.
On a personal level, I'd love to see these talented folks make more money. My fear would be that somewhere like Orlando doesn't have the inherent draw that Vegas does, and that ticket sales (and therefore the sport) will ultimately suffer over time. Sure, lots of people go to FL...for the parks, resorts, etc. It is also WAY more expensive to hit the sights in FL than it is in Vegas. Hotels, flights, food, and theme parks are significantly more expensive. It just doesn't have the same draw. I hope other cities are considered. JMO
Posted 2013-12-17 7:30 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
3canstorun - 2013-12-17 7:15 AM While rodeo needs new investments/interests, marketing will be the key. Also, dealing with quarratine on the animals. I read alot on the FL web page. A lot of othe rodeo bucking stock are exempt from some of the regulations. What it will boil down to on the FL requirements for health certificates, etc. is that the contestants will have to do more paperwork and research. But, that is why they are professional. The first year will be hectic and then they will learn the ropes. Going from 32 degree weather to 80 degree weather will really make it hard on the animals. I see this as a problem for the participants.
Orlando is more family friendly for those of the spectators who wish to take their children. But, it will not be cheap. And, decent hotels are not cheap. Traveling in that area is horrid to say the least. Traveling sometimes takes more than an hour to go 14 miles.
I understand and support the fact that the participants need/want to be paid more. But, please WPRA and PRCA listen and make wise decisions.
Most typical rodeo fans can not afford the average $300 a night hotel rooms. This alone makes it pretty formidable to get the numbers of fans needed to make it float.
Posted 2013-12-17 7:30 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304 Location: Texas
Rodeo isn't mainstream. Could it happen? Anything is possible. For instance, a show focusing on a rodeo even on a mainstream channel....like maybe A&E?
Posted 2013-12-17 7:36 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-17 7:30 AM Rodeo isn't mainstream. Could it happen? Anything is possible. For instance, a show focusing on a rodeo even on a mainstream channel....like maybe A&E?
That show is NOT focusing on rodeo, it's focusing on drama
and it's on a&e....
also it's only 6 episodes...
Burn Notice has lasted several seasons, and nobody watches that show
Posted 2013-12-17 7:51 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Poor Cracker Girl
Posts: 12150 Location: Feeding mosquitos, FL
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-17 12:40 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-16 11:17 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 11:06 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 10:45 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 9:55 PM Want better payout. Support the current sponsors and help find new ones.
And could someone point out Where in the FL press release it says the contestants are getting better money?
Then keep in mind that the PRCA is able to increase the payout anytime they want. The NFR rules and regs have not been written by LVE.
karen
I wouldn't expect the payouts to be drammatically better for the first few years. I certainly wouldn't expect them to be worse, either. Orlando is making a huge committment, and that tells me a lot. I can see NBC/Disney potentially involved with promotion, and that might well include television. As far as supporting sponsors....well, the NFR ran the same 5-6 ads for 10 days. I promise I will never buy one of those pizzas, and I don't like whiskey (Pendleton Wiskey - neat ad though), and I don't have a need for a recliner. I already drive a Dodge pickup! LOL
Okay pick your favorite wine and get them on board.
Before Pendelton it was Crown. Both have been great sponsors and obviously both have benefited from the relationship. I can think of a number of "out of the box" companies that would be great sponsors.
Seriously I don't want NBC nor Disney to have ANY say in what happens with the NFR. That is when you lose control and it becomes a made for TV production.
I would like to see the PRCA and WPRA get serious about marketing their brand. Working together to pick up new, unique sponsors. If they would build the product the TV coverage, etc. would come.
karen
I agree...
The word on the street is Florida offered 4 million more in prize money and the rounds would pay $30,000 and the average $100,000. That's double for the average and $12,000 for a go round win. If I was a contestant..I would be packing for Florida.
When my daughter gave me those same number increases I have to say it impressed the heck out of me. I can see why the contestants will put up with traveling all the way across the country for it. I can't imagine those on the Pacific NW and Alberta. That's going to be a heck of a haul. I also wonder about the Canadian quarantine problem too.
What about the folks now that haul to Vegas from the Southeast? Kaley Bass lives in Florida. Kaleb Driggers is from Albany, Georgia. Shane Hanchey's in Louisiana (but his horse came from way south Florida). Vegas isn't close for any of those folks either. And besides, these are rodeo folks. You have to be 75% truck driver to make it anyway.
I think its hilarious the people talking about the higher cost of flights to Florida. It's $50 more to fly to McCarren in December from DFW than it is to fly to MCO.
The Gaylord Palms is massive. The plans for this new resort have it even bigger than that. Space will not be an issue.
Hurricane season ends Nov 1 and Orlando hasn't been hit at all since the freak season of 2004. Even than was an outer band from a weakening Charley.
Me personally, I think LVE is banking on us fans Capital F Freaking Out to pressure the PRCA into accepting their deal. The marketing is genius.
Posted 2013-12-17 8:11 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
New Word Inventor
Posts: 1506 Location: Who knows
cavyrunsbarrels - 2013-12-15 10:58 PM
Ugh. I don't know what to think anymore. I naturally want to support the sport, and if the competitors have the opportunity to make more $$ at a different venue, then I'm open. But I don't want fees for spectators to go up. That's going to lose a lot of business. I also don't like the idea of FL. It's hot, it is not a central location at all, and getting a plane ticket to FL in December doesn't seem like it'll be so easy. I don't really want it to move, but I'd be open to a location that has more to offer than FL.
I don't consider Vegas to be a central location, either. It's the opposite side of the country to me. Florida is warmer in winter than other areas, but it can still get cold. It's a mixed bag, temperature wise.
I personally don't see the draw of Vegas. The couple times I've gone my impression wasn't glitz or flashy, just that it was dirty and nasty. The dining didn't impress me, especially for the price. If you don't like gambling, there's not much to do.
Orlando is not bad for plane tickets in winter. It's still a tourist area. If the NFR did go there, I'm pretty sure some will capitalize on and bring in and more "cowboy" type stuff. You don't have to go to Disney. They have dinner shows, good restaraunts, hotels, resorts, and the ghiridelli ice cream on the Boardwalk is yum! Air boat rides are fun! There are the amusement parks like Seaworld, and Busch Gardens isnt too far. Broaden your horizons. Plenty to do, plenty to offer.
Texas would be a more south-central location, but might be harder plane ticket wise. Definitely some cowboy stuff to do.
If they wanted to be near gambling, there's Biloxi, MS. Not as much other stuff to do as a tourist area.
Or Atlanta, with a great aquarium, Six Flags, coke factory, zoo. You could get a city pass.
The fact is, a lot of glamour has grown up around Vegas, but it's not the only place that has things to offer. And you have to ask how much of it only came to be because the NFR was there.
Posted 2013-12-17 8:13 AM Subject: RE: Tyson Durfey's take on moving the NFR..
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 3:07 AM
DD2012 - 2013-12-16 8:14 PM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-16 8:05 PM
RoadToVegas - 2013-12-16 7:50 PM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 7:47 PM Tyson needs to stick to roping.
Why? He is one of the only people that should really have a say in this lol without the contestants there would be no show. Fans who want to see the best of the best will go where ever the NFR is.
i would wager that the number of 'fans' that actually go to the performances is dwarfed by the number that maybe go to one or none and go to vegas for the experience of it all.......yes, without the performers there is no show but without a huge amount of fans showing up and spending 100s of millions of dollars, their is no big paycheck for petulant athletes......
all of this I'm all for the contestants getting all they can, but the fact is the fans are who generate the revenue to pay them.
Yes, and if some cities are willing to pay more than Vegas then what's the problem? Do you think the people making those offers aren't smart enough to know what they are doing??? Lol
I don't know if they are smart enough or not. I do know they are going to be compared to Vegas so they better have a really good plan to attract a very diverse customer base for NFR attendance.
Posted 2013-12-17 8:22 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
The same things have been said about NASCAR, as it is predomiately a sport that attracts white rural fans. To be more exact, white, rural Republicans predomiately. It's said that NASCAR doesn't captivate the interest of Blacks and Hispanics. Everyone knows why hotels are affordable in Vegas. That's just clever strategy and we all know why there is this unusually inexpensive lodging. I've never been fond of Vegas, personally. To me, almost everything there seems cheap and imitation. Every vice known to man is practically legal and openly showcased in Vegas. If I want to see New York, New York, I'll go to the Big Apple for a weekend. If I want to see the Eiffel Tower, then I'll take a trip to Europe. If I want to see Elvis, I'll rent an old movie. Now if I want to pluck a prostitute off the street, buy cheap drugs, or gamble my way into debt, then Vegas is the place for me. Also, I don't need Vegas to find fine dinning. Cheap flights.....cheap hotels......all to draw people into "Sin City". That's just me. It doesn't float my boat. I would have gone to Vegas but only for the NFR, but all the other attractions do little to arouse my interest. Also, flights to Orlando in the winter really aren't that bad. If I had a couple young aspiring cowboys in my family, I would be much more likely to want to fly them to Orlando than Vegas.
Posted 2013-12-17 8:24 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1037
EnterUp - 2013-12-16 10:59 PM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Ask anyone in Vegas and they will tell you the NFR keeps the city alive during the "dead" time until New Year Eve. They are not going to lose the RODEO CROWD.
Im ready to see what they have up their sleeve. I wouldnt doubt that it will be something like "The American" as a series through the year, that finishes up in Vegas.
Way too fishy that the PRCA dropped GAC and RFD and now they are set on moving from Las Vegas as well.
The PRCA is finally listening and standing behind their contestants. It was the contestants that banded together and said, enough is enough, if Vegas wants us here then they need to step up to the plate. The PRCA Board of Directors did not make this move on their own, it was contestant driven. So forget your conspiracy theories, there isn't one here. And I for one applaud the cowboy/cowgirl for finally pushing back
I think you missed my point, that Las Vegas NEEDS RODEO during that time to fill their gap.. I said nothing bashing the PRCA for moving, I simply said LVE has had something in the works for more than just a couple of days... If you need proof, read this article and you will see that they have been negotiating for over a year. Heck they even state how Houston isnt sanctioned by the PRCA.. how could you not think they might go after some of the bigger paying rodeos for a series??? http://m.reviewjournal.com/sports/nfr/national-finals-rodeo-officials-say-theyre-not-hitched-florida-yet If money is the big issue for the contestants, why wouldnt they want something like the American to be a series where there is more money up for grabs?? Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
Posted 2013-12-17 8:32 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304 Location: Texas
barrelracr131 - 2013-12-17 7:36 AM
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-17 7:30 AM Rodeo isn't mainstream. Could it happen? Anything is possible. For instance, a show focusing on a rodeo even on a mainstream channel....like maybe A&E?
That show is NOT focusing on rodeo, it's focusing on drama
and it's on a&e....
also it's only 6 episodes...
Burn Notice has lasted several seasons, and nobody watches that show
Everything these days starts out with a handful of episodes to see if it garnishes interest.
And of course it's going to focus on drama -- it's more interesting to the masses than rodeo. The interest in rodeo would come over time. Gotta do what ya gotta do to bring it to the masses -- if that's REALLY the desire. You can't have the sponser $$ without doing what it takes.
ETA - Take Toddlers and Tiaras. I doubt every mom that enters her daughter is crazy but that's how they laid it out there -- and I'm sure the interest in those pageants grew ten fold. The kids in the pageants are famous to people outside the pageant world.
Posted 2013-12-17 8:44 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-17 8:32 AM
barrelracr131 - 2013-12-17 7:36 AM
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-17 7:30 AM Rodeo isn't mainstream. Could it happen? Anything is possible. For instance, a show focusing on a rodeo even on a mainstream channel....like maybe A&E?
That show is NOT focusing on rodeo, it's focusing on drama
and it's on a&e....
also it's only 6 episodes...
Burn Notice has lasted several seasons, and nobody watches that show
Everything these days starts out with a handful of episodes to see if it garnishes interest.
And of course it's going to focus on drama -- it's more interesting to the masses than rodeo. The interest in rodeo would come over time. Gotta do what ya gotta do to bring it to the masses -- if that's REALLY the desire. You can't have the sponser $$ without doing what it takes.
ETA - Take Toddlers and Tiaras. I doubt every mom that enters her daughter is crazy but that's how they laid it out there -- and I'm sure the interest in those pageants grew ten fold. The kids in the pageants are famous to people outside the pageant world.
I was JKin'
also, from what I hear they filmed these girls for MONTHS and only got 6 epi's worth of material... so I don't think this one is coming back
Posted 2013-12-17 9:12 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1037
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-16 10:59 PM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Ask anyone in Vegas and they will tell you the NFR keeps the city alive during the "dead" time until New Year Eve. They are not going to lose the RODEO CROWD.
Im ready to see what they have up their sleeve. I wouldnt doubt that it will be something like "The American" as a series through the year, that finishes up in Vegas.
Way too fishy that the PRCA dropped GAC and RFD and now they are set on moving from Las Vegas as well.
The PRCA is finally listening and standing behind their contestants. It was the contestants that banded together and said, enough is enough, if Vegas wants us here then they need to step up to the plate. The PRCA Board of Directors did not make this move on their own, it was contestant driven. So forget your conspiracy theories, there isn't one here. And I for one applaud the cowboy/cowgirl for finally pushing back
I think you missed my point, that Las Vegas NEEDS RODEO during that time to fill their gap.. I said nothing bashing the PRCA for moving, I simply said LVE has had something in the works for more than just a couple of days... If you need proof, read this article and you will see that they have been negotiating for over a year. Heck they even state how Houston isnt sanctioned by the PRCA.. how could you not think they might go after some of the bigger paying rodeos for a series??? http://m.reviewjournal.com/sports/nfr/national-finals-rodeo-officials-say-theyre-not-hitched-florida-yet
If money is the big issue for the contestants, why wouldnt they want something like the American to be a series where there is more money up for grabs??
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
Posted 2013-12-17 9:15 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425 Location: Riding Crackhead.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 11:52 PM Karen, I was just thinking of NBC/Disney in terms of televising the NFR.
Maybe it's far fetched. I think it's possible that the NBC Sports Network Channel might be a possibility. Seems like a good potential match with Orlando, Disney, NBC, etc.....
Posted 2013-12-17 9:20 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425 Location: Riding Crackhead.
TrackinBubba - 2013-12-17 7:51 AM
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-17 12:40 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-16 11:17 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 11:06 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 10:45 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 9:55 PM Want better payout. Support the current sponsors and help find new ones.
And could someone point out Where in the FL press release it says the contestants are getting better money?
Then keep in mind that the PRCA is able to increase the payout anytime they want. The NFR rules and regs have not been written by LVE.
karen
I wouldn't expect the payouts to be drammatically better for the first few years. I certainly wouldn't expect them to be worse, either. Orlando is making a huge committment, and that tells me a lot. I can see NBC/Disney potentially involved with promotion, and that might well include television. As far as supporting sponsors....well, the NFR ran the same 5-6 ads for 10 days. I promise I will never buy one of those pizzas, and I don't like whiskey (Pendleton Wiskey - neat ad though), and I don't have a need for a recliner. I already drive a Dodge pickup! LOL
Okay pick your favorite wine and get them on board.
Before Pendelton it was Crown. Both have been great sponsors and obviously both have benefited from the relationship. I can think of a number of "out of the box" companies that would be great sponsors.
Seriously I don't want NBC nor Disney to have ANY say in what happens with the NFR. That is when you lose control and it becomes a made for TV production.
I would like to see the PRCA and WPRA get serious about marketing their brand. Working together to pick up new, unique sponsors. If they would build the product the TV coverage, etc. would come.
karen
I agree...
The word on the street is Florida offered 4 million more in prize money and the rounds would pay $30,000 and the average $100,000. That's double for the average and $12,000 for a go round win. If I was a contestant..I would be packing for Florida.
When my daughter gave me those same number increases I have to say it impressed the heck out of me. I can see why the contestants will put up with traveling all the way across the country for it. I can't imagine those on the Pacific NW and Alberta. That's going to be a heck of a haul. I also wonder about the Canadian quarantine problem too.
What about the folks now that haul to Vegas from the Southeast? Kaley Bass lives in Florida. Kaleb Driggers is from Albany, Georgia. Shane Hanchey's in Louisiana (but his horse came from way south Florida). Vegas isn't close for any of those folks either. And besides, these are rodeo folks. You have to be 75% truck driver to make it anyway.
I think its hilarious the people talking about the higher cost of flights to Florida. It's $50 more to fly to McCarren in December from DFW than it is to fly to MCO.
The Gaylord Palms is massive. The plans for this new resort have it even bigger than that. Space will not be an issue.
Hurricane season ends Nov 1 and Orlando hasn't been hit at all since the freak season of 2004. Even than was an outer band from a weakening Charley.
Me personally, I think LVE is banking on us fans Capital F Freaking Out to pressure the PRCA into accepting their deal. The marketing is genius.
I understand there are a few from that area I was just stating that the majority of contestants are not. I don't have a dog in this fight - I was just typing out my random thoughts.......carry on
Posted 2013-12-17 9:26 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-16 10:59 PM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-16 4:47 PM Ask anyone in Vegas and they will tell you the NFR keeps the city alive during the "dead" time until New Year Eve. They are not going to lose the RODEO CROWD.
Im ready to see what they have up their sleeve. I wouldnt doubt that it will be something like "The American" as a series through the year, that finishes up in Vegas.
Way too fishy that the PRCA dropped GAC and RFD and now they are set on moving from Las Vegas as well.
The PRCA is finally listening and standing behind their contestants. It was the contestants that banded together and said, enough is enough, if Vegas wants us here then they need to step up to the plate. The PRCA Board of Directors did not make this move on their own, it was contestant driven. So forget your conspiracy theories, there isn't one here. And I for one applaud the cowboy/cowgirl for finally pushing back
I think you missed my point, that Las Vegas NEEDS RODEO during that time to fill their gap.. I said nothing bashing the PRCA for moving, I simply said LVE has had something in the works for more than just a couple of days... If you need proof, read this article and you will see that they have been negotiating for over a year. Heck they even state how Houston isnt sanctioned by the PRCA.. how could you not think they might go after some of the bigger paying rodeos for a series??? http://m.reviewjournal.com/sports/nfr/national-finals-rodeo-officials-say-theyre-not-hitched-florida-yet If money is the big issue for the contestants, why wouldnt they want something like the American to be a series where there is more money up for grabs?? Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
People keep bringing up the prca not letting members compete in other series or rodeos. Someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong but I believe their was a big lawsuit over this a ways back. At one time if you were a member you couldn't compete in other associations and if I remeber correctly guys used to enter ammys under fake names and stuff. But the prca lost the lawsuit over the right to work argument and so this is settled law I believe. And they cant stop you from competing in other assoc. Maybe someone on here can give more insight?
Posted 2013-12-17 9:26 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Regular
Posts: 91
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-17 9:15 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 11:52 PM Karen, I was just thinking of NBC/Disney in terms of televising the NFR.
Maybe it's far fetched. I think it's possible that the NBC Sports Network Channel might be a possibility. Seems like a good potential match with Orlando, Disney, NBC, etc.....
Posted 2013-12-17 9:28 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425 Location: Riding Crackhead.
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-17 9:26 AM
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-17 9:15 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-16 11:52 PM Karen, I was just thinking of NBC/Disney in terms of televising the NFR.
Maybe it's far fetched. I think it's possible that the NBC Sports Network Channel might be a possibility. Seems like a good potential match with Orlando, Disney, NBC, etc.....
Posted 2013-12-17 9:31 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Expert
Posts: 1409
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:22 AM The same things have been said about NASCAR, as it is predomiately a sport that attracts white rural fans. To be more exact, white, rural Republicans predomiately. It's said that NASCAR doesn't captivate the interest of Blacks and Hispanics.
Everyone knows why hotels are affordable in Vegas. That's just clever strategy and we all know why there is this unusually inexpensive lodging. I've never been fond of Vegas, personally. To me, almost everything there seems cheap and imitation. Every vice known to man is practically legal and openly showcased in Vegas. If I want to see New York, New York, I'll go to the Big Apple for a weekend. If I want to see the Eiffel Tower, then I'll take a trip to Europe. If I want to see Elvis, I'll rent an old movie. Now if I want to pluck a prostitute off the street, buy cheap drugs, or gamble my way into debt, then Vegas is the place for me. Also, I don't need Vegas to find fine dinning. Cheap flights.....cheap hotels......all to draw people into "Sin City". That's just me. It doesn't float my boat. I would have gone to Vegas but only for the NFR, but all the other attractions do little to arouse my interest.
Also, flights to Orlando in the winter really aren't that bad. If I had a couple young aspiring cowboys in my family, I would be much more likely to want to fly them to Orlando than Vegas.
Not sure about Orlando but we stayed on a beach in Florida a few weeks ago for a third of the cost that it takes to stay there during the summer months.
Posted 2013-12-17 9:39 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Nicknameless
Posts: 4565 Location: I can see the end of the world from here!
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 7:22 AM The same things have been said about NASCAR, as it is predomiately a sport that attracts white rural fans. To be more exact, white, rural Republicans predomiately. It's said that NASCAR doesn't captivate the interest of Blacks and Hispanics.
Everyone knows why hotels are affordable in Vegas. That's just clever strategy and we all know why there is this unusually inexpensive lodging. I've never been fond of Vegas, personally. To me, almost everything there seems cheap and imitation. Every vice known to man is practically legal and openly showcased in Vegas. If I want to see New York, New York, I'll go to the Big Apple for a weekend. If I want to see the Eiffel Tower, then I'll take a trip to Europe. If I want to see Elvis, I'll rent an old movie. Now if I want to pluck a prostitute off the street, buy cheap drugs, or gamble my way into debt, then Vegas is the place for me. Also, I don't need Vegas to find fine dinning. Cheap flights.....cheap hotels......all to draw people into "Sin City". That's just me. It doesn't float my boat. I would have gone to Vegas but only for the NFR, but all the other attractions do little to arouse my interest.
Also, flights to Orlando in the winter really aren't that bad. If I had a couple young aspiring cowboys in my family, I would be much more likely to want to fly them to Orlando than Vegas.
When my daughter was on the rodeo circuit I went to babysit the grandson...we were headed from Cave Creek, AZ to Logandale NV (Clark County Fair) in the middle of the day, Wyatt saw downtown Vegas from the interstate & got soooo excited! When I told him we weren't stopping he threw the biggest fit I've ever seen...he was 3 yrs old. Lol...of course, his experience in Vegas was always fun...there's a ton of stuff for kids, then they have professional 'sitters' so the adults can have fun, too! I love Vegas...we don't stay in the cheap rooms as part of the fun is staying in huge, beautiful suites...and, never gamble with 'nervous' money. We've spent some wonderful Thanksgiving Holidays there. It all is whatever you make it. Being surrounded by 'sin' doesn't make ya sinful! You don't have to indulge! I want to say that one thing all the other professional sports have in common is 'gambling'. YOU may not like to gamble but the rest of the world does..heck, even the cowboys/cowgirls are gambling with every run. Another thing is that every kid has swung a bat, thrown a ball, dribbled a basketball, gotten into a 'fight'...etc...they can 'relate', whereas, rodeo is is completely foreign to the majority. I don't see Rodeo ever being a huge spectator sport...none of the big money sports are 'shows', the fans don't have to pay attention to details. I do know that the foreigners LOVE rodeo & some travel to the U.S. specifically to watch the PBR from all over the globe...they're a group I would think they could market to. The true fans aren't going to abandon the NFR no matter where it moves & I sincerely hope they can figure out a way to bring more money to the contestants. It will be interesting.
Posted 2013-12-17 9:40 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 10:15 PM
Keep in mind PRCA/WPRA is a unique "sport" in the way players are funneled to the finals. So to compare to other sports isn't just apples and oranges. It is more like apples and fire wood.
One of the cool things about rodeo is that every kid can grow up with the dream and a realistic shot. Not so much for NASCAR, NFL , etc.... I am all about building a better customer base. But, even on BHW there is a thread with people wondering who Joe Beaver is.......
Heck we lost the Bull Fight tour years ago because of lack of sponsor money. And believe me there has been plenty of work done to bring it back.
Moving to FL or any place else is not going to magically fix these issues. PRCA is doing a much better job of marketing but they have a ways to go. And the WPRA couldn't even get current results up on their web site.
I would LOVE to see both orgaizations spend more time in promoting the local rodeo. Help get the citizens in the seats. Talk to the kids about how to get started in rodeo. We are not getting new members by the numbers we need to sustain. The PRCA should be paying a retired Gold buckle member to go out and promote. Kids need to meet the heros of our sport. I was 9 years old when I met Martha Josey. It blew my mind and made such a hugh impression. And to hear her story made me believe anything was possible.
Hopefully the talking heads at PRCA are smarter about this than the last time they decided to become a "Sports" venue and not rodeo. As I stated before it darned near was the end of the PRCA.
karen
Karen, you said pretty much the same thing I did yesterday....
~~I just know that it does not rank with other professional sports. (I believe they are all getting paid way too much to play a game!!!) Those of us who rodeo, or follow it even if we don't, are a small number compared to the world.
If Tuf Cooper, Kevin Durant and Tom Brady walk down the street together, almost everyone will know Kevin and Tom. Most won't know Tuf.
Older guys, Michael Jordon, Brett Farve, and Joe Beaver. Who are people going to recognize?
That is why it is so hard to sell to people outside rodeo. I wish everyone in the world loved rodeo as much as they do baseball, soccer, basketball, football or hockey.
Posted 2013-12-17 9:44 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
barrelracr131 - 2013-12-17 9:22 AM Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the fans will hold any sway over PRCA's decision...and I doubt LVE is banking on that again JM uneducated O
Some comments from PRCA members support your inference.
If you're right, they're committing business suicide.
Posted 2013-12-17 9:47 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
TXBO - 2013-12-17 9:44 AM
barrelracr131 - 2013-12-17 9:22 AM Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the fans will hold any sway over PRCA's decision...and I doubt LVE is banking on that again JM uneducated O
Some comments from PRCA members support your inference.
If you're right, they're committing business suicide.
Posted 2013-12-17 9:54 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart
TXBO - 2013-12-17 7:46 AM
justcruzin - 2013-12-17 9:26 AM Sounds to me like the LVE has already made up their mind, goodbye NFR, hello to something new.
Not at all. They're waiting for a counter offer.
The article said LVE has been waiting for a year for a commitment, tired of waiting, ready to move forward/on. (in essence) Could be strategic, probably is but they're playin hard ball for sure.
Posted 2013-12-17 9:56 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-12-17 9:39 AM COWBOY STADIUM ... ARLINGTON TX ... Center of the country and easy to get to ...
How on earth do you figure Texas, the very bottom south end of the entire US is "The center of the country"??? Actually Kansas and Mo. is about as "central" as one can get.
Posted 2013-12-17 9:58 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
Ya, I just mentioned this on the last page. That's what I was thinkin. I think people used to enter ammys under fake names and when they got caught the would get put on the suspension list for awhile! Lol
Posted 2013-12-17 10:01 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country
BigSkyDream - 2013-12-17 9:54 AM Come on Nashville, TN, put in a bid! I'd love to see it there. I'd be packing my bags...Nashvegas, here I come! (Yes, they call it that)
Posted 2013-12-17 10:08 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:40 AM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 10:15 PM
Keep in mind PRCA/WPRA is a unique "sport" in the way players are funneled to the finals. So to compare to other sports isn't just apples and oranges. It is more like apples and fire wood.
One of the cool things about rodeo is that every kid can grow up with the dream and a realistic shot. Not so much for NASCAR, NFL , etc.... I am all about building a better customer base. But, even on BHW there is a thread with people wondering who Joe Beaver is.......
Heck we lost the Bull Fight tour years ago because of lack of sponsor money. And believe me there has been plenty of work done to bring it back.
Moving to FL or any place else is not going to magically fix these issues. PRCA is doing a much better job of marketing but they have a ways to go. And the WPRA couldn't even get current results up on their web site.
I would LOVE to see both orgaizations spend more time in promoting the local rodeo. Help get the citizens in the seats. Talk to the kids about how to get started in rodeo. We are not getting new members by the numbers we need to sustain. The PRCA should be paying a retired Gold buckle member to go out and promote. Kids need to meet the heros of our sport. I was 9 years old when I met Martha Josey. It blew my mind and made such a hugh impression. And to hear her story made me believe anything was possible.
Hopefully the talking heads at PRCA are smarter about this than the last time they decided to become a "Sports" venue and not rodeo. As I stated before it darned near was the end of the PRCA.
karen
Karen, you said pretty much the same thing I did yesterday....
~~I just know that it does not rank with other professional sports. (I believe they are all getting paid way too much to play a game!!!) Those of us who rodeo, or follow it even if we don't, are a small number compared to the world.
If Tuf Cooper, Kevin Durant and Tom Brady walk down the street together, almost everyone will know Kevin and Tom. Most won't know Tuf.
Older guys, Michael Jordon, Brett Farve, and Joe Beaver. Who are people going to recognize?
That is why it is so hard to sell to people outside rodeo. I wish everyone in the world loved rodeo as much as they do baseball, soccer, basketball, football or hockey.
Again, the same can be said of pro wrestling, Extreme Fighting, even NASCAR. I don't look at it from the standpoint that pro athletes in big sports "make too much money". They earn what the market dictates. We can sit here and say "I wish more people loved rodeo as much as they love football, baseball, etc..." or pro rodeo can wise up and come up with a more aggressive long range plan to capture a larger audience. Many ideas have emerged right here on this board, so we can hope that the experts and people in control can get it done. None of us expects an equivalent of a Micheal Jordan or A-Rod to emerge, but it's reasonable to expect a substantial improvement over the status quo. As far as I can tell, pro rodeo has been floundering for a long time. The term "professional" is, for the most part, a misnomer.
I just looked up the average salary of acircus clown: $38,000. Come on!!! Over 99% of so-called "pro rodeo" competitors don't earn that in a year. You can't tell me this can't be improved on substantially!
Posted 2013-12-17 10:14 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
People like to gamble. Look how much money the casino's all across the US take in. Horse racing does well because of the wagering. People who are far removed from horses follow racing because of the gambling.Because of the gambling, it feeds the purses. IF they started wagering on the rodeo's and cowboys, alot more people would follow it. Thus growing a much bigger and broader fan base.
Posted 2013-12-17 10:14 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519 Location: Arizona
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 9:08 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:40 AM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 10:15 PM
Keep in mind PRCA/WPRA is a unique "sport" in the way players are funneled to the finals. So to compare to other sports isn't just apples and oranges. It is more like apples and fire wood.
One of the cool things about rodeo is that every kid can grow up with the dream and a realistic shot. Not so much for NASCAR, NFL , etc.... I am all about building a better customer base. But, even on BHW there is a thread with people wondering who Joe Beaver is.......
Heck we lost the Bull Fight tour years ago because of lack of sponsor money. And believe me there has been plenty of work done to bring it back.
Moving to FL or any place else is not going to magically fix these issues. PRCA is doing a much better job of marketing but they have a ways to go. And the WPRA couldn't even get current results up on their web site.
I would LOVE to see both orgaizations spend more time in promoting the local rodeo. Help get the citizens in the seats. Talk to the kids about how to get started in rodeo. We are not getting new members by the numbers we need to sustain. The PRCA should be paying a retired Gold buckle member to go out and promote. Kids need to meet the heros of our sport. I was 9 years old when I met Martha Josey. It blew my mind and made such a hugh impression. And to hear her story made me believe anything was possible.
Hopefully the talking heads at PRCA are smarter about this than the last time they decided to become a "Sports" venue and not rodeo. As I stated before it darned near was the end of the PRCA.
karen
Karen, you said pretty much the same thing I did yesterday....
~~I just know that it does not rank with other professional sports. (I believe they are all getting paid way too much to play a game!!!) Those of us who rodeo, or follow it even if we don't, are a small number compared to the world.
If Tuf Cooper, Kevin Durant and Tom Brady walk down the street together, almost everyone will know Kevin and Tom. Most won't know Tuf.
Older guys, Michael Jordon, Brett Farve, and Joe Beaver. Who are people going to recognize?
That is why it is so hard to sell to people outside rodeo. I wish everyone in the world loved rodeo as much as they do baseball, soccer, basketball, football or hockey.
Again, the same can be said of pro wrestling, Extreme Fighting, even NASCAR.
I don't look at it from the standpoint that pro athletes in big sports "make too much money". They earn what the market dictates. We can sit here and say "I wish more people loved rodeo as much as they love football, baseball, etc..." or pro rodeo can wise up and come up with a more aggressive long range plan to capture a larger audience. Many ideas have emerged right here on this board, so we can hope that the experts and people in control can get it done. None of us expects an equivalent of a Micheal Jordan or A-Rod to emerge, but it's reasonable to expect a substantial improvement over the status quo. As far as I can tell, pro rodeo has been floundering for a long time. The term "professional" is, for the most part, a misnomer.
I just looked up the average salary of acircus clown: $38,000. Come on!!! Over 99% of so-called "pro rodeo" competitors don't earn that in a year. You can't tell me this can't be improved on substantially!
I think in order to get "salaries" increased the PRCA is going to have to hit the bigger marketers...such as gatorade, nike, etc. Rodeo has to have a "face"....the smaller rodeos are going to have to draw more people, you can't rely on one big rodeo to handle all the payouts. Make the smaller rodeos start counting more. I think $18,000 in less than 8 seconds (or 14 in barrels) is quite a payout...who makes that?
Posted 2013-12-17 10:15 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Location: Texas
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
Posted 2013-12-17 10:22 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-17 10:14 AM People like to gamble. Look how much money the casino's all across the US take in. Horse racing does well because of the wagering. People who are far removed from horses follow racing because of the gambling.Because of the gambling, it feeds the purses. IF they started wagering on the rodeo's and cowboys, alot more people would follow it. Thus growing a much bigger and broader fan base.
Took the time to read this article. It puts more perspective on all this. Sounds like LVE is done with PRCA. Sounds like PRCA wasnt quite done with Vegas though. Sounds like PRCA really doesnt want to leave Vegas but right now they are homeless for 2015. Push came to shoove and instead of shooving LVE walked away from the table. 18 months to vote is not good business PRCA no wonder LVE is ready to say goodbye and do something on their own. The contestants put on a heck of a show and deserve to be paid, but if not for the fans there would be no rodeos anywhere in this country. Some of the contestant comments have really struck a nerve with me. THey seem to have lost site that the rodeos arent for them as much as they are for the public and with no public for the sponsors and clubs to make money off of there would b no rodeo. With out the sponsors making money and the local clubs selling seats, burgers and drinks to the public there would be no purse money for you to win. So it is important for the fans to be happy with the location for their week of vacation. Do we want to see you paid more? Heck yes. Do we care to see your all about me attitude dont care about your vacation? no cause when it comes down to it i m paying your purse money every time i buy something from one of your sponsors, buy that ticket to the local rodeo, and get on that plane to Vegas in december. I think other towns have something to offer, I think that PRCA really needs to look into all offers. However i really think they are exploiting and stringing Orlando along trying to get Vegas in line.
Posted 2013-12-17 10:24 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 10:08 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:40 AM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-16 10:15 PM
Keep in mind PRCA/WPRA is a unique "sport" in the way players are funneled to the finals. So to compare to other sports isn't just apples and oranges. It is more like apples and fire wood.
One of the cool things about rodeo is that every kid can grow up with the dream and a realistic shot. Not so much for NASCAR, NFL , etc.... I am all about building a better customer base. But, even on BHW there is a thread with people wondering who Joe Beaver is.......
Heck we lost the Bull Fight tour years ago because of lack of sponsor money. And believe me there has been plenty of work done to bring it back.
Moving to FL or any place else is not going to magically fix these issues. PRCA is doing a much better job of marketing but they have a ways to go. And the WPRA couldn't even get current results up on their web site.
I would LOVE to see both orgaizations spend more time in promoting the local rodeo. Help get the citizens in the seats. Talk to the kids about how to get started in rodeo. We are not getting new members by the numbers we need to sustain. The PRCA should be paying a retired Gold buckle member to go out and promote. Kids need to meet the heros of our sport. I was 9 years old when I met Martha Josey. It blew my mind and made such a hugh impression. And to hear her story made me believe anything was possible.
Hopefully the talking heads at PRCA are smarter about this than the last time they decided to become a "Sports" venue and not rodeo. As I stated before it darned near was the end of the PRCA.
karen
Karen, you said pretty much the same thing I did yesterday....
~~I just know that it does not rank with other professional sports. (I believe they are all getting paid way too much to play a game!!!) Those of us who rodeo, or follow it even if we don't, are a small number compared to the world.
If Tuf Cooper, Kevin Durant and Tom Brady walk down the street together, almost everyone will know Kevin and Tom. Most won't know Tuf.
Older guys, Michael Jordon, Brett Farve, and Joe Beaver. Who are people going to recognize?
That is why it is so hard to sell to people outside rodeo. I wish everyone in the world loved rodeo as much as they do baseball, soccer, basketball, football or hockey.
Again, the same can be said of pro wrestling, Extreme Fighting, even NASCAR. I don't look at it from the standpoint that pro athletes in big sports "make too much money". They earn what the market dictates. We can sit here and say "I wish more people loved rodeo as much as they love football, baseball, etc..." or pro rodeo can wise up and come up with a more aggressive long range plan to capture a larger audience. Many ideas have emerged right here on this board, so we can hope that the experts and people in control can get it done. None of us expects an equivalent of a Micheal Jordan or A-Rod to emerge, but it's reasonable to expect a substantial improvement over the status quo. As far as I can tell, pro rodeo has been floundering for a long time. The term "professional" is, for the most part, a misnomer.
I just looked up the average salary of acircus clown: $38,000. Come on!!! Over 99% of so-called "pro rodeo" competitors don't earn that in a year. You can't tell me this can't be improved on substantially!
The more I read about this I really do think LVE has been screwing the PRCA, at least the last five or ten years. Like I mentioned earlier, a article that quoted Karl said in the past the prca felt like they pretty much had to take what Vegas offered because the weren't on solid financial footing, and they weren't really getting what they should. That is no longer the case. I thought that it was interesting that the number of prca sanctioned rodeos was up and so is the prize money! I don't remeber the dollar amount but it was million+. So I think rodeo isn't in as bad a shape as some may think.
The one area he said they had a little concern was membership is down. It showed that number and it was very minute. But still a concern.
Posted 2013-12-17 10:26 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 10:08 AM Again, the same can be said of pro wrestling, Extreme Fighting, even NASCAR.
I don't look at it from the standpoint that pro athletes in big sports "make too much money". They earn what the market dictates. We can sit here and say "I wish more people loved rodeo as much as they love football, baseball, etc..." or pro rodeo can wise up and come up with a more aggressive long range plan to capture a larger audience. Many ideas have emerged right here on this board, so we can hope that the experts and people in control can get it done. None of us expects an equivalent of a Micheal Jordan or A-Rod to emerge, but it's reasonable to expect a substantial improvement over the status quo. As far as I can tell, pro rodeo has been floundering for a long time. The term "professional" is, for the most part, a misnomer.
I just looked up the average salary of acircus clown: $38,000. Come on!!! Over 99% of so-called "pro rodeo" competitors don't earn that in a year. You can't tell me this can't be improved on substantially!
Keep doing what you've always done....... You'll keep getting what you've always gotten.
Posted 2013-12-17 10:35 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:15 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
Prca Rodeo is set up totally different than PBR. You can't really compare the two and I'm sure that would apply legally.
Posted 2013-12-17 10:39 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Veteran
Posts: 208
God Is My Light - 2013-12-16 6:59 PM I think that nobody realizes that Florida is known as the "service state " LVG aint got nothing on Florida, if the NFR does go there they will make it bigger and better then Vegas ever could I am sorry that's the truth, and as much as I would have loved to have run down the T&M alley way ....I really don't care where it goes, I am pretty sure if I made the Finals and I was going to run in FL I really wouldn't care that it wasn't in LVG.....its sounds stupid now, but you watch if it goes to Florida they will treat it right and GO BIG its just they way they roll down there ......that's why I love it. Can anyone be positive about anything on this board ? come on y'all who cares where its at, if the Pros go with it so will I, its the people that make Rodeo and the NFR special not the city or state .......just support the dang thang wherever it goes, its in the athletes and directors hand not ours.
Florida would be ready for all the NFR tourists to have something to do, trust me.Thoroughbred race tracks, new casino laws, new clubs, shopping, Sea World, Disney, and a glitzy mega resort hosting the best rodeo in the world. Fla is not a bad place to be in the winter. Contestants would actually have places to keep their horses with pasture turn out.
You can bet the OBS sale in Ocala would be held during NFR week. My two favorite things, rodeo and horse auctions
Posted 2013-12-17 10:43 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708 Location: Colorado
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:15 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
EnterUp,
There is history here. The PRCA has been sued and lost when they tried restricting the members. I doubt the results would be differant now. It also puts a strain on the membership when law suits happen.
Posted 2013-12-17 10:44 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Location: Texas
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:35 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:15 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
Prca Rodeo is set up totally different than PBR. You can't really compare the two and I'm sure that would apply legally.
Yeah, I am sure your right This coming from the person that thought Sherry was "playing it safe". Sorry but I think you expertise about rodeo has came from what you have seen from the view from your couch
But only one rodeo can "crown" a world champion...the other is just a "rodeo"...hmm....
I think I read somewhere that over 60,000 people visited Vegas this year for NFR.
How many of them do you think could name two of the world champions?
Maybe have two NFR's one in FL one in Vegas and the champions of each event can compete at the "American" and the winner of that is the World Champion!!!
Two observations. 1. If they are going to have to "spend alot of money" then why aren't they willing to spend what it takes to keep the NFR? 2. This guy really looks like he into the "rodeo/cowboy" lifestyle....soparanoes probably more his cup of tea.
Posted 2013-12-17 10:53 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:44 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:35 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:15 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
Prca Rodeo is set up totally different than PBR. You can't really compare the two and I'm sure that would apply legally.
Yeah, I am sure your right This coming from the person that thought Sherry was "playing it safe". Sorry but I think you expertise about rodeo has came from what you have seen from the view from your couch
Haha o you are the witty one! Do you even know how the pro tour or the qualifiers of the PBR is set up??? If so please enlighten us, genius? Before you spout any more of your ignorance for all the world to see.
Two observations. 1. If they are going to have to "spend alot of money" then why aren't they willing to spend what it takes to keep the NFR? 2. This guy really looks like he into the "rodeo/cowboy" lifestyle....soparanoes probably more his cup of tea.
Oh please! Because he doesn't "Look" the way you think he should.
Should we now have a spectator dress code? What about sponsors?
Posted 2013-12-17 10:55 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Veteran
Posts: 208
PRCA rejects current financial offer from LVE
Dec.16, 2013
The Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association Board of Directors voted Dec. 15 to reject the terms of the current financial offer from Las Vegas Events to extend the WNFR contract past 2014. The PRCA Board did not vote to leave Las Vegas; the vote was made strictly on the content of the current offer. The PRCA continues to carefully consider offers from all potential WNFR hosts.
Two observations. 1. If they are going to have to "spend alot of money" then why aren't they willing to spend what it takes to keep the NFR? 2. This guy really looks like he into the "rodeo/cowboy" lifestyle....soparanoes probably more his cup of tea.
Oh please! Because he doesn't "Look" the way you think he should.
Should we now have a spectator dress code? What about sponsors?
Posted 2013-12-17 10:58 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Location: Texas
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:53 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:44 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:35 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:15 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
Prca Rodeo is set up totally different than PBR. You can't really compare the two and I'm sure that would apply legally.
Yeah, I am sure your right This coming from the person that thought Sherry was "playing it safe". Sorry but I think you expertise about rodeo has came from what you have seen from the view from your couch
Haha o you are the witty one! Do you even know how the pro tour or the qualifiers of the PBR is set up??? If so please enlighten us, genius? Before you spout any more of your ignorance for all the world to see.
Sweetie I can't even begin to compete with you on "ignorant statements" for the week.
Posted 2013-12-17 11:04 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:58 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:53 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:44 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:35 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:15 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
Prca Rodeo is set up totally different than PBR. You can't really compare the two and I'm sure that would apply legally.
Yeah, I am sure your right This coming from the person that thought Sherry was "playing it safe". Sorry but I think you expertise about rodeo has came from what you have seen from the view from your couch
Haha o you are the witty one! Do you even know how the pro tour or the qualifiers of the PBR is set up??? If so please enlighten us, genius? Before you spout any more of your ignorance for all the world to see.
Sweetie I can't even begin to compete with you on "ignorant statements" for the week.
O, I think you have shown yourself more than up to the task on this thread and several others here lately......hence your deflection from elaborating on your knowledge of how the PBR operates in comparison as to the PRCA.
Two observations. 1. If they are going to have to "spend alot of money" then why aren't they willing to spend what it takes to keep the NFR? 2. This guy really looks like he into the "rodeo/cowboy" lifestyle....soparanoes probably more his cup of tea.
Las Vegas Events President Pat Christenson speaks during a press conference announcing his induction into the Southern Nevada Sports Hall of Fame on Tuesday, March 19, 2013.
Karl Stressman at the Thomas & Mack Center on Tuesday, Dec. 11, 2013.
Members of the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association and tourism officials in Las Vegas have been working together for years. Twenty nine, to be exact.
To borrow a term, this is not their first rodeo. Far from it.
But what unfolded Sunday afternoon regarding the future of the Wrangler National Finals Rodeo was a chasm of communication befitting people who had never spoken to one another, let alone shared the same rodeo ring for three decades.
The latest on this astonishing go-round between Las Vegas and its longtime rodeo partner: Las Vegas Events reps have cut off negotiations with the PRCA before any formal contract has been signed to actually move the WNFR out of Las Vegas after 2014.
As LVE officials have stated, there are compelling reasons Las Vegas is finished negotiating (their long-standing offer having been turned back), but the move has left the head of the PRCA saying, in effect, “Hold on there, cowboy.”
On Sunday afternoon, the nine-member PRCA Board of Directors voted to reject the offer made by LVE to return the WNFR to the Thomas & Mack Center after the current contract times out. The vote was 6-3 against the LVE proposal.
During that PRCA meeting, way across the country, the Osceola County (Fla.) Commission met to approve something known as a memorandum of understanding. That vote authorized a formal offer to move the WNFR to Florida beginning in 2015, the year after the current contract in Las Vegas ends.
PRCA board members were reportedly watching, certainly with keen interest, a live video stream of the session from Florida. That vote, held in a rare Sunday session of the Osceola County Commission in Kissimmee, Fla., was 5-0. The decision now allows 90 days for the two sides to hammer out an agreement that would make a new, 24,000-seat arena the home of the WNFR for 20 years beginning in 2016 (the event would be held at Amway Arena, home of the Orlando Magic, in 2015).
In keeping with the oft-confusing nature of the WNFR contract negotiations, the information made public during that meeting was surprising to even Florida residents. Plans for the $100 million arena to be built at Gaylord Palms Resort and Convention Center in Kissimmee were not even made public until Sunday’s meeting.
Minutes after the unanimous vote out of Florida, PRCA Chairman Keith Martin called South Point owner and National Finals Rodeo Committee member Michael Gaughan and told him the result of the day’s sweeping activities. Gaughan then contacted LVE President Pat Christenson, whose organization has been waiting a year and a half for a vote on its current contract offer to extend the rodeo’s stay in Las Vegas by another decade.
Christenson was unaware up until midweek that the PRCA even had planned a vote and was not privy to the events in Florida until Sunday.
Suffice to say, Christenson and his fellow Las Vegas officials had grown restless and were already mapping out a strategy for a new rodeo event to supplant the WNFR if a deal with the PRCA could not be reached. Understanding that the PRCA had rejected its offer and was pursuing a more lucrative (by $4 million) proposal from the Florida county that is home to Orlando and its PRCA-sanctioned Silver Spurs Rodeo, LVE issued a statement effectively announcing the end of its partnership with the PRCA after the 2014 WNFR.
“The way it was explained to me was the PRCA Board had reviewed our offer and voted against it,” Christenson said this afternoon. “They were in negotiations with the Florida county. We gave them an offer to extend and they rejected it.”
Given the long lag since making its original offer — which Christenson has said is $15 million when totaling the entire operating cost of staging the rodeo and peripheral events — LVE was ready to move on.
“Our offer was on the table for 18 months, ready for a vote,” Christenson said. “We weren’t going to spend another three to four months waiting for them to decide what they were going to do while we were looking at planning for another event.”
Pretty obviously, the Las Vegas contingent is confident of filling the 10-day slot usually occupied by the WNFR with a top-notch event. It certainly has a high financial standard to meet: The 2012 WNFR generated $92.8 million in nongaming economic impact for Las Vegas.
“We’re going to have the top contestants in a 10-day event that would replace what we’re doing with the NFR,” Christenson said. “Everything that would be in the NFR would be in this and will be a major, major rodeo event.” This would be a series of shows not sanctioned by the PRCA and more in line with the American invitational rodeo set for AT&T Stadium in Dallas in March. That show is sponsored by RFD-TV and its CEO, Randy Bernard. RFD-TV broadcast from this year’s WNFR.
But over at the PRCA, all this talk of a new rodeo to replace the WNFR in Las Vegas is very premature. PRCA CEO Karl Stressman said he was “totally surprised” that his colleagues at LVE had acted so swiftly and decisively to cut off negotiations.
“Never, and I say never, was there ever any intention that this was the end of the negotiations between us and LVE,” Stressman said in a phone interview this afternoon. “I’m reading their statement in response to our vote and thinking, ‘Wow, they are in a rush to do something different.’”
Stressman said the PRCA vote was merely a decision to turn down the current set of financial figures and continue negotiations, not only with Las Vegas, but with other prospective suitors hoping to land the “Super Bowl of Rodeo.”
“Are we talking to the group in Florida? Heck yes, we are. But this does not mean we have a done deal,” Stressman said. “As I’ve said, we are, in fact, as a board of directors, looking at all viable options. (Osceola County) might not be the only option on the table.”
When asked if the PRCA had entered into a similar memorandum of understanding with any other city or county, Stressman said only, “We have had more than one interested party, as far as serious inquiries, about hosting the WNFR.”
And it is possible that some entity other than Osceola County and its fancy new stadium could work a deal to host the WNFR? Even Las Vegas could, conceivably, work its way back into the talks?
“Yes, sir. That is possible,” Stressman said. “That is correct.”
Nonetheless, Christenson is looking past 2014 and this super-sized, invitation-only rodeo.
“We didn’t deal this hand,” he said. “We’re playing it. We are ready and have an alternative plan, and we will succeed with it.”
Faced with the prospect of Las Vegas staging a WNFR-scope event to compete with his organization’s own crowning rodeo, Stressman said, “I don’t blame them for pursuing that. Rodeo is a great sport, and competition is competition, but we don’t want that to happen. I don’t think it’s necessary for us to have two rodeos.”
Stressman said that there will be a point when everyone involved in the WNFR has recovered from working 17 consecutive days and “is thinking clearly” to contact reps from LVE and figure out just what the heck happened here.
“We’ll need to find out what it is we can do and reach out to the LVE, who we’ve been in partnership with for 29 years, and talk to them again. Everybody wants to know what happened here, what went wrong.
“There’s no way we’re going to leave it the way it is.”
But what is the objective of resuming a conversation with the folks in Las Vegas? Is it to resume negotiations or just mend a fractured relationship?
“The answer to both sides of that question would be, ‘Yes,’” Stressman said. “I don’t want to be in a position for LVE to be angry with the way this has gone for the past few days. Knowing them the way I know them, I don’t think they want that, either.
“Our intention was to continue negotiations.”
Maybe the best way to sort out this squabble is to remember the simple fundamentals of team roping: one on the head, one on the heel, and, above all, know how to read your partner. Otherwise, that steer is outta here.
Two observations. 1. If they are going to have to "spend alot of money" then why aren't they willing to spend what it takes to keep the NFR? 2. This guy really looks like he into the "rodeo/cowboy" lifestyle....soparanoes probably more his cup of tea.
That actually was my thought. (#1)
He's not trying to compete for the best cowboys. He's trying to retain the fans.
Two observations. 1. If they are going to have to "spend alot of money" then why aren't they willing to spend what it takes to keep the NFR? 2. This guy really looks like he into the "rodeo/cowboy" lifestyle....soparanoes probably more his cup of tea.
That actually was my thought. (#1)
He's not trying to compete for the best cowboys. He's trying to retain the fans.
Two thoughts here. Again, if they are going to spend more money why not have the best in the sport still.
And I want someone to answer this question. Names in rodeo aren't house hold names per say, but that still doesn't mean they are not figured into the equation of drawing spectators to the NFR.
I want somebody on here to tell me they honestly think you could move the UPRA finals to Vegas in the time slot the NFR occupied, even offering the same prize money, but just the top 15 currenty in the UPRA and still sell out the THOMAS and MACK for 10 nights in a row. I just can't buy that!
Posted 2013-12-17 11:21 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
Location: Texas
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 11:04 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:58 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:53 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:44 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:35 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:15 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
Prca Rodeo is set up totally different than PBR. You can't really compare the two and I'm sure that would apply legally.
Yeah, I am sure your right This coming from the person that thought Sherry was "playing it safe". Sorry but I think you expertise about rodeo has came from what you have seen from the view from your couch
Haha o you are the witty one! Do you even know how the pro tour or the qualifiers of the PBR is set up??? If so please enlighten us, genius? Before you spout any more of your ignorance for all the world to see.
Sweetie I can't even begin to compete with you on "ignorant statements" for the week.
O, I think you have shown yourself more than up to the task on this thread and several others here lately......hence your deflection from elaborating on your knowledge of how the PBR operates in comparison as to the PRCA.
No, no, you seem to be the expert on everything, who am I to question any of your ultimate wisdom. But, I might be depending on a family member who has 11 years of NFR experience to probably know just an itty bitty more then you. But I could be wrong, that couch of yours probably has more knowledge
Posted 2013-12-17 11:30 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 11:21 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 11:04 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:58 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:53 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:44 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:35 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:15 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
Prca Rodeo is set up totally different than PBR. You can't really compare the two and I'm sure that would apply legally.
Yeah, I am sure your right This coming from the person that thought Sherry was "playing it safe". Sorry but I think you expertise about rodeo has came from what you have seen from the view from your couch
Haha o you are the witty one! Do you even know how the pro tour or the qualifiers of the PBR is set up??? If so please enlighten us, genius? Before you spout any more of your ignorance for all the world to see.
Sweetie I can't even begin to compete with you on "ignorant statements" for the week.
O, I think you have shown yourself more than up to the task on this thread and several others here lately......hence your deflection from elaborating on your knowledge of how the PBR operates in comparison as to the PRCA.
No, no, you seem to be the expert on everything, who am I to question any of your ultimate wisdom. But, I might be depending on a family member who has 11 years of NFR experience to probably know just an itty bitty more then you. But I could be wrong, that couch of yours probably has more knowledge
Who is the family member? And how does your being related to a NFR qualifier make you a expert on the PBR? Lol or the PRCA for that matter?
Posted 2013-12-17 11:35 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 11:21 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 11:04 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:58 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:53 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:44 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:35 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:15 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
Prca Rodeo is set up totally different than PBR. You can't really compare the two and I'm sure that would apply legally.
Yeah, I am sure your right This coming from the person that thought Sherry was "playing it safe". Sorry but I think you expertise about rodeo has came from what you have seen from the view from your couch
Haha o you are the witty one! Do you even know how the pro tour or the qualifiers of the PBR is set up??? If so please enlighten us, genius? Before you spout any more of your ignorance for all the world to see.
Sweetie I can't even begin to compete with you on "ignorant statements" for the week.
O, I think you have shown yourself more than up to the task on this thread and several others here lately......hence your deflection from elaborating on your knowledge of how the PBR operates in comparison as to the PRCA.
No, no, you seem to be the expert on everything, who am I to question any of your ultimate wisdom. But, I might be depending on a family member who has 11 years of NFR experience to probably know just an itty bitty more then you. But I could be wrong, that couch of yours probably has more knowledge
C'mon folks! This doesn't have to become a pizzing contest. It's a good thread.....why ruin it?
Las Vegas Events President Pat Christenson speaks during a press conference announcing his induction into the Southern Nevada Sports Hall of Fame on Tuesday, March 19, 2013.
Karl Stressman at the Thomas & Mack Center on Tuesday, Dec. 11, 2013.
Members of the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association and tourism officials in Las Vegas have been working together for years. Twenty nine, to be exact.
To borrow a term, this is not their first rodeo. Far from it.
But what unfolded Sunday afternoon regarding the future of the Wrangler National Finals Rodeo was a chasm of communication befitting people who had never spoken to one another, let alone shared the same rodeo ring for three decades.
The latest on this astonishing go-round between Las Vegas and its longtime rodeo partner: Las Vegas Events reps have cut off negotiations with the PRCA before any formal contract has been signed to actually move the WNFR out of Las Vegas after 2014.
As LVE officials have stated, there are compelling reasons Las Vegas is finished negotiating (their long-standing offer having been turned back), but the move has left the head of the PRCA saying, in effect, “Hold on there, cowboy.”
On Sunday afternoon, the nine-member PRCA Board of Directors voted to reject the offer made by LVE to return the WNFR to the Thomas & Mack Center after the current contract times out. The vote was 6-3 against the LVE proposal.
During that PRCA meeting, way across the country, the Osceola County (Fla.) Commission met to approve something known as a memorandum of understanding. That vote authorized a formal offer to move the WNFR to Florida beginning in 2015, the year after the current contract in Las Vegas ends.
PRCA board members were reportedly watching, certainly with keen interest, a live video stream of the session from Florida. That vote, held in a rare Sunday session of the Osceola County Commission in Kissimmee, Fla., was 5-0. The decision now allows 90 days for the two sides to hammer out an agreement that would make a new, 24,000-seat arena the home of the WNFR for 20 years beginning in 2016 (the event would be held at Amway Arena, home of the Orlando Magic, in 2015).
In keeping with the oft-confusing nature of the WNFR contract negotiations, the information made public during that meeting was surprising to even Florida residents. Plans for the $100 million arena to be built at Gaylord Palms Resort and Convention Center in Kissimmee were not even made public until Sunday’s meeting.
Minutes after the unanimous vote out of Florida, PRCA Chairman Keith Martin called South Point owner and National Finals Rodeo Committee member Michael Gaughan and told him the result of the day’s sweeping activities. Gaughan then contacted LVE President Pat Christenson, whose organization has been waiting a year and a half for a vote on its current contract offer to extend the rodeo’s stay in Las Vegas by another decade.
Christenson was unaware up until midweek that the PRCA even had planned a vote and was not privy to the events in Florida until Sunday.
Suffice to say, Christenson and his fellow Las Vegas officials had grown restless and were already mapping out a strategy for a new rodeo event to supplant the WNFR if a deal with the PRCA could not be reached. Understanding that the PRCA had rejected its offer and was pursuing a more lucrative (by $4 million) proposal from the Florida county that is home to Orlando and its PRCA-sanctioned Silver Spurs Rodeo, LVE issued a statement effectively announcing the end of its partnership with the PRCA after the 2014 WNFR.
“The way it was explained to me was the PRCA Board had reviewed our offer and voted against it,” Christenson said this afternoon. “They were in negotiations with the Florida county. We gave them an offer to extend and they rejected it.”
Given the long lag since making its original offer — which Christenson has said is $15 million when totaling the entire operating cost of staging the rodeo and peripheral events — LVE was ready to move on.
“Our offer was on the table for 18 months, ready for a vote,” Christenson said. “We weren’t going to spend another three to four months waiting for them to decide what they were going to do while we were looking at planning for another event.”
Pretty obviously, the Las Vegas contingent is confident of filling the 10-day slot usually occupied by the WNFR with a top-notch event. It certainly has a high financial standard to meet: The 2012 WNFR generated $92.8 million in nongaming economic impact for Las Vegas.
“We’re going to have the top contestants in a 10-day event that would replace what we’re doing with the NFR,” Christenson said. “Everything that would be in the NFR would be in this and will be a major, major rodeo event.” This would be a series of shows not sanctioned by the PRCA and more in line with the American invitational rodeo set for AT&T Stadium in Dallas in March. That show is sponsored by RFD-TV and its CEO, Randy Bernard. RFD-TV broadcast from this year’s WNFR.
But over at the PRCA, all this talk of a new rodeo to replace the WNFR in Las Vegas is very premature. PRCA CEO Karl Stressman said he was “totally surprised” that his colleagues at LVE had acted so swiftly and decisively to cut off negotiations.
“Never, and I say never, was there ever any intention that this was the end of the negotiations between us and LVE,” Stressman said in a phone interview this afternoon. “I’m reading their statement in response to our vote and thinking, ‘Wow, they are in a rush to do something different.’”
Stressman said the PRCA vote was merely a decision to turn down the current set of financial figures and continue negotiations, not only with Las Vegas, but with other prospective suitors hoping to land the “Super Bowl of Rodeo.”
“Are we talking to the group in Florida? Heck yes, we are. But this does not mean we have a done deal,” Stressman said. “As I’ve said, we are, in fact, as a board of directors, looking at all viable options. (Osceola County) might not be the only option on the table.”
When asked if the PRCA had entered into a similar memorandum of understanding with any other city or county, Stressman said only, “We have had more than one interested party, as far as serious inquiries, about hosting the WNFR.”
And it is possible that some entity other than Osceola County and its fancy new stadium could work a deal to host the WNFR? Even Las Vegas could, conceivably, work its way back into the talks?
“Yes, sir. That is possible,” Stressman said. “That is correct.”
Nonetheless, Christenson is looking past 2014 and this super-sized, invitation-only rodeo.
“We didn’t deal this hand,” he said. “We’re playing it. We are ready and have an alternative plan, and we will succeed with it.”
Faced with the prospect of Las Vegas staging a WNFR-scope event to compete with his organization’s own crowning rodeo, Stressman said, “I don’t blame them for pursuing that. Rodeo is a great sport, and competition is competition, but we don’t want that to happen. I don’t think it’s necessary for us to have two rodeos.”
Stressman said that there will be a point when everyone involved in the WNFR has recovered from working 17 consecutive days and “is thinking clearly” to contact reps from LVE and figure out just what the heck happened here.
“We’ll need to find out what it is we can do and reach out to the LVE, who we’ve been in partnership with for 29 years, and talk to them again. Everybody wants to know what happened here, what went wrong.
“There’s no way we’re going to leave it the way it is.”
But what is the objective of resuming a conversation with the folks in Las Vegas? Is it to resume negotiations or just mend a fractured relationship?
“The answer to both sides of that question would be, ‘Yes,’” Stressman said. “I don’t want to be in a position for LVE to be angry with the way this has gone for the past few days. Knowing them the way I know them, I don’t think they want that, either.
“Our intention was to continue negotiations.”
Maybe the best way to sort out this squabble is to remember the simple fundamentals of team roping: one on the head, one on the heel, and, above all, know how to read your partner. Otherwise, that steer is outta here.
Someone explain this to me in Blond. Does this all sound like the PRCA was money hungry? Does it sound like Vegas wanted the NFR gone? I'm stupid I know but I'm hearing so many contradictions on this thread and now reading this article I'm really confused.
Posted 2013-12-17 11:50 AM Subject: RE: NFR in FlORIDA?!
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:35 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 11:21 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 11:04 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:58 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:53 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:44 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 10:35 AM
EnterUp - 2013-12-17 10:15 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-17 9:53 AM
kboltwkreations - 2013-12-17 8:24 AM
Of course Im sure the PRCA will have stipultations on them that they cannot compete in both... There have already been talks of the NFR card.
This will get them sued. It's already happened once. "The Right to Work"....
Pretty sure there is at least one lawyer just waiting for the chance.
I disagree with you. There are ways you can put restrictions on your members. The PBR is a prime example, they have a "non compete" clause. They don't restrict their members from participating in other events, but if competing in another event conflicts with them competing at a PBR event, then yes they do pay consequences. I am not sure how many events they have to set out. So yes, the PRCA can put in a "non compete" clause that would be totally legal and not interfere with the Right to Work law.
Prca Rodeo is set up totally different than PBR. You can't really compare the two and I'm sure that would apply legally.
Yeah, I am sure your right This coming from the person that thought Sherry was "playing it safe". Sorry but I think you expertise about rodeo has came from what you have seen from the view from your couch
Haha o you are the witty one! Do you even know how the pro tour or the qualifiers of the PBR is set up??? If so please enlighten us, genius? Before you spout any more of your ignorance for all the world to see.
Sweetie I can't even begin to compete with you on "ignorant statements" for the week.
O, I think you have shown yourself more than up to the task on this thread and several others here lately......hence your deflection from elaborating on your knowledge of how the PBR operates in comparison as to the PRCA.
No, no, you seem to be the expert on everything, who am I to question any of your ultimate wisdom. But, I might be depending on a family member who has 11 years of NFR experience to probably know just an itty bitty more then you. But I could be wrong, that couch of yours probably has more knowledge
C'mon folks! This doesn't have to become a pizzing contest. It's a good thread.....why ruin it?
O, I totally agree. But apparently someone still has there feelings hurt over another thread and feels the need to lash out on this one.
Posted 2013-12-17 11:55 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 806 Location: Arkansas
PRCA wanted to negotiate the contract. LVE got their feelings hurt, and put out a press release to spiral everything out of control (which it did). Kissimmee and other areas see an opportunity to bid on the finals and are doing so. PRCA can use their bids to up the anty on LVE. LVE is not liking it.
Posted 2013-12-17 11:58 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 838 Location: Panama City, FL
im excited for the NFR to come to FL. It gives the other half of the country a chance to go. I know I cant afford to go to the NFR or any of the other big rodeos because the cost for us to travel to the other side of the US is astronomical. When it comes to children, im confused as to how there will be any more kids in FL than in NV? There will be screaming and well behaved youngins everywhere you go, and i love to see kids enjoying rodeo, thats how most of our dreams bloomed from- going, watching and wishing we could be out there. As for the livestock, i think theyll fare better than you would expect. i mean, theyre hauled from climate to climate all year. thats what makes the horses and other livestock the best of the business, they can be on the top of their game regardless of ground, climate, surroundings, ect. there is more to orlando than the parks, thats just what most think of when they hear the name. where some wont come from the western states, their seats will be filled by those from the eastern states that havent had a chance to go. boycotting because of the move seems a little ridiculous. the idea of it moving every year to different states across the country would give a lot more people a chance to see the best of the best compete.
Las Vegas Events President Pat Christenson speaks during a press conference announcing his induction into the Southern Nevada Sports Hall of Fame on Tuesday, March 19, 2013.
Karl Stressman at the Thomas & Mack Center on Tuesday, Dec. 11, 2013.
Members of the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association and tourism officials in Las Vegas have been working together for years. Twenty nine, to be exact.
To borrow a term, this is not their first rodeo. Far from it.
But what unfolded Sunday afternoon regarding the future of the Wrangler National Finals Rodeo was a chasm of communication befitting people who had never spoken to one another, let alone shared the same rodeo ring for three decades.
The latest on this astonishing go-round between Las Vegas and its longtime rodeo partner: Las Vegas Events reps have cut off negotiations with the PRCA before any formal contract has been signed to actually move the WNFR out of Las Vegas after 2014.
As LVE officials have stated, there are compelling reasons Las Vegas is finished negotiating (their long-standing offer having been turned back), but the move has left the head of the PRCA saying, in effect, “Hold on there, cowboy.”
On Sunday afternoon, the nine-member PRCA Board of Directors voted to reject the offer made by LVE to return the WNFR to the Thomas & Mack Center after the current contract times out. The vote was 6-3 against the LVE proposal.
During that PRCA meeting, way across the country, the Osceola County (Fla.) Commission met to approve something known as a memorandum of understanding. That vote authorized a formal offer to move the WNFR to Florida beginning in 2015, the year after the current contract in Las Vegas ends.
PRCA board members were reportedly watching, certainly with keen interest, a live video stream of the session from Florida. That vote, held in a rare Sunday session of the Osceola County Commission in Kissimmee, Fla., was 5-0. The decision now allows 90 days for the two sides to hammer out an agreement that would make a new, 24,000-seat arena the home of the WNFR for 20 years beginning in 2016 (the event would be held at Amway Arena, home of the Orlando Magic, in 2015).
In keeping with the oft-confusing nature of the WNFR contract negotiations, the information made public during that meeting was surprising to even Florida residents. Plans for the $100 million arena to be built at Gaylord Palms Resort and Convention Center in Kissimmee were not even made public until Sunday’s meeting.
Minutes after the unanimous vote out of Florida, PRCA Chairman Keith Martin called South Point owner and National Finals Rodeo Committee member Michael Gaughan and told him the result of the day’s sweeping activities. Gaughan then contacted LVE President Pat Christenson, whose organization has been waiting a year and a half for a vote on its current contract offer to extend the rodeo’s stay in Las Vegas by another decade.
Christenson was unaware up until midweek that the PRCA even had planned a vote and was not privy to the events in Florida until Sunday.
Suffice to say, Christenson and his fellow Las Vegas officials had grown restless and were already mapping out a strategy for a new rodeo event to supplant the WNFR if a deal with the PRCA could not be reached. Understanding that the PRCA had rejected its offer and was pursuing a more lucrative (by $4 million) proposal from the Florida county that is home to Orlando and its PRCA-sanctioned Silver Spurs Rodeo, LVE issued a statement effectively announcing the end of its partnership with the PRCA after the 2014 WNFR.
“The way it was explained to me was the PRCA Board had reviewed our offer and voted against it,” Christenson said this afternoon. “They were in negotiations with the Florida county. We gave them an offer to extend and they rejected it.”
Given the long lag since making its original offer — which Christenson has said is $15 million when totaling the entire operating cost of staging the rodeo and peripheral events — LVE was ready to move on.
“Our offer was on the table for 18 months, ready for a vote,” Christenson said. “We weren’t going to spend another three to four months waiting for them to decide what they were going to do while we were looking at planning for another event.”
Pretty obviously, the Las Vegas contingent is confident of filling the 10-day slot usually occupied by the WNFR with a top-notch event. It certainly has a high financial standard to meet: The 2012 WNFR generated $92.8 million in nongaming economic impact for Las Vegas.
“We’re going to have the top contestants in a 10-day event that would replace what we’re doing with the NFR,” Christenson said. “Everything that would be in the NFR would be in this and will be a major, major rodeo event.” This would be a series of shows not sanctioned by the PRCA and more in line with the American invitational rodeo set for AT&T Stadium in Dallas in March. That show is sponsored by RFD-TV and its CEO, Randy Bernard. RFD-TV broadcast from this year’s WNFR.
But over at the PRCA, all this talk of a new rodeo to replace the WNFR in Las Vegas is very premature. PRCA CEO Karl Stressman said he was “totally surprised” that his colleagues at LVE had acted so swiftly and decisively to cut off negotiations.
“Never, and I say never, was there ever any intention that this was the end of the negotiations between us and LVE,” Stressman said in a phone interview this afternoon. “I’m reading their statement in response to our vote and thinking, ‘Wow, they are in a rush to do something different.’”
Stressman said the PRCA vote was merely a decision to turn down the current set of financial figures and continue negotiations, not only with Las Vegas, but with other prospective suitors hoping to land the “Super Bowl of Rodeo.”
“Are we talking to the group in Florida? Heck yes, we are. But this does not mean we have a done deal,” Stressman said. “As I’ve said, we are, in fact, as a board of directors, looking at all viable options. (Osceola County) might not be the only option on the table.”
When asked if the PRCA had entered into a similar memorandum of understanding with any other city or county, Stressman said only, “We have had more than one interested party, as far as serious inquiries, about hosting the WNFR.”
And it is possible that some entity other than Osceola County and its fancy new stadium could work a deal to host the WNFR? Even Las Vegas could, conceivably, work its way back into the talks?
“Yes, sir. That is possible,” Stressman said. “That is correct.”
Nonetheless, Christenson is looking past 2014 and this super-sized, invitation-only rodeo.
“We didn’t deal this hand,” he said. “We’re playing it. We are ready and have an alternative plan, and we will succeed with it.”
Faced with the prospect of Las Vegas staging a WNFR-scope event to compete with his organization’s own crowning rodeo, Stressman said, “I don’t blame them for pursuing that. Rodeo is a great sport, and competition is competition, but we don’t want that to happen. I don’t think it’s necessary for us to have two rodeos.”
Stressman said that there will be a point when everyone involved in the WNFR has recovered from working 17 consecutive days and “is thinking clearly” to contact reps from LVE and figure out just what the heck happened here.
“We’ll need to find out what it is we can do and reach out to the LVE, who we’ve been in partnership with for 29 years, and talk to them again. Everybody wants to know what happened here, what went wrong.
“There’s no way we’re going to leave it the way it is.”
But what is the objective of resuming a conversation with the folks in Las Vegas? Is it to resume negotiations or just mend a fractured relationship?
“The answer to both sides of that question would be, ‘Yes,’” Stressman said. “I don’t want to be in a position for LVE to be angry with the way this has gone for the past few days. Knowing them the way I know them, I don’t think they want that, either.
“Our intention was to continue negotiations.”
Maybe the best way to sort out this squabble is to remember the simple fundamentals of team roping: one on the head, one on the heel, and, above all, know how to read your partner. Otherwise, that steer is outta here.
Someone explain this to me in Blond. Does this all sound like the PRCA was money hungry? Does it sound like Vegas wanted the NFR gone? I'm stupid I know but I'm hearing so many contradictions on this thread and now reading this article I'm really confused.
Pretty much all your going to get is opinions here. But I will say this, the top 15 in each event voted to pursue this deal with Florida, and apparently did so unanimously. That says alot to me, and should everyone on here. I'm sure there are some smart people in that group, and they didn't take this vote lightly.
Someone explain this to me in Blond. Does this all sound like the PRCA was money hungry? Does it sound like Vegas wanted the NFR gone? I'm stupid I know but I'm hearing so many contradictions on this thread and now reading this article I'm really confused.
It's high stakes poker. Lots of bluffing. Truth unknown.
i see similar articles posted already but i'll post this too.......the PRCA is backpedaling as fast as they can but i think it's a done deal and honestly, in the current rodeo climate, i think las vegas has a better chance to come out ahead financially, by moving on without the PRCA than with.....many on this board like competition and think it drives the market.....this may be a great opportunity to test that theory.....might be bigger money for more folks and more options for fans......
Las Vegas Events President Pat Christenson speaks during a press conference announcing his induction into the Southern Nevada Sports Hall of Fame on Tuesday, March 19, 2013.
Karl Stressman at the Thomas & Mack Center on Tuesday, Dec. 11, 2013.
Members of the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association and tourism officials in Las Vegas have been working together for years. Twenty nine, to be exact.
To borrow a term, this is not their first rodeo. Far from it.
But what unfolded Sunday afternoon regarding the future of the Wrangler National Finals Rodeo was a chasm of communication befitting people who had never spoken to one another, let alone shared the same rodeo ring for three decades.
The latest on this astonishing go-round between Las Vegas and its longtime rodeo partner: Las Vegas Events reps have cut off negotiations with the PRCA before any formal contract has been signed to actually move the WNFR out of Las Vegas after 2014.
As LVE officials have stated, there are compelling reasons Las Vegas is finished negotiating (their long-standing offer having been turned back), but the move has left the head of the PRCA saying, in effect, “Hold on there, cowboy.”
On Sunday afternoon, the nine-member PRCA Board of Directors voted to reject the offer made by LVE to return the WNFR to the Thomas & Mack Center after the current contract times out. The vote was 6-3 against the LVE proposal.
During that PRCA meeting, way across the country, the Osceola County (Fla.) Commission met to approve something known as a memorandum of understanding. That vote authorized a formal offer to move the WNFR to Florida beginning in 2015, the year after the current contract in Las Vegas ends.
PRCA board members were reportedly watching, certainly with keen interest, a live video stream of the session from Florida. That vote, held in a rare Sunday session of the Osceola County Commission in Kissimmee, Fla., was 5-0. The decision now allows 90 days for the two sides to hammer out an agreement that would make a new, 24,000-seat arena the home of the WNFR for 20 years beginning in 2016 (the event would be held at Amway Arena, home of the Orlando Magic, in 2015).
In keeping with the oft-confusing nature of the WNFR contract negotiations, the information made public during that meeting was surprising to even Florida residents. Plans for the $100 million arena to be built at Gaylord Palms Resort and Convention Center in Kissimmee were not even made public until Sunday’s meeting.
Minutes after the unanimous vote out of Florida, PRCA Chairman Keith Martin called South Point owner and National Finals Rodeo Committee member Michael Gaughan and told him the result of the day’s sweeping activities. Gaughan then contacted LVE President Pat Christenson, whose organization has been waiting a year and a half for a vote on its current contract offer to extend the rodeo’s stay in Las Vegas by another decade.
Christenson was unaware up until midweek that the PRCA even had planned a vote and was not privy to the events in Florida until Sunday.
Suffice to say, Christenson and his fellow Las Vegas officials had grown restless and were already mapping out a strategy for a new rodeo event to supplant the WNFR if a deal with the PRCA could not be reached. Understanding that the PRCA had rejected its offer and was pursuing a more lucrative (by $4 million) proposal from the Florida county that is home to Orlando and its PRCA-sanctioned Silver Spurs Rodeo, LVE issued a statement effectively announcing the end of its partnership with the PRCA after the 2014 WNFR.
“The way it was explained to me was the PRCA Board had reviewed our offer and voted against it,” Christenson said this afternoon. “They were in negotiations with the Florida county. We gave them an offer to extend and they rejected it.”
Given the long lag since making its original offer — which Christenson has said is $15 million when totaling the entire operating cost of staging the rodeo and peripheral events — LVE was ready to move on.
“Our offer was on the table for 18 months, ready for a vote,” Christenson said. “We weren’t going to spend another three to four months waiting for them to decide what they were going to do while we were looking at planning for another event.”
Pretty obviously, the Las Vegas contingent is confident of filling the 10-day slot usually occupied by the WNFR with a top-notch event. It certainly has a high financial standard to meet: The 2012 WNFR generated $92.8 million in nongaming economic impact for Las Vegas.
“We’re going to have the top contestants in a 10-day event that would replace what we’re doing with the NFR,” Christenson said. “Everything that would be in the NFR would be in this and will be a major, major rodeo event.” This would be a series of shows not sanctioned by the PRCA and more in line with the American invitational rodeo set for AT&T Stadium in Dallas in March. That show is sponsored by RFD-TV and its CEO, Randy Bernard. RFD-TV broadcast from this year’s WNFR.
But over at the PRCA, all this talk of a new rodeo to replace the WNFR in Las Vegas is very premature. PRCA CEO Karl Stressman said he was “totally surprised” that his colleagues at LVE had acted so swiftly and decisively to cut off negotiations.
“Never, and I say never, was there ever any intention that this was the end of the negotiations between us and LVE,” Stressman said in a phone interview this afternoon. “I’m reading their statement in response to our vote and thinking, ‘Wow, they are in a rush to do something different.’”
Stressman said the PRCA vote was merely a decision to turn down the current set of financial figures and continue negotiations, not only with Las Vegas, but with other prospective suitors hoping to land the “Super Bowl of Rodeo.”
“Are we talking to the group in Florida? Heck yes, we are. But this does not mean we have a done deal,” Stressman said. “As I’ve said, we are, in fact, as a board of directors, looking at all viable options. (Osceola County) might not be the only option on the table.”
When asked if the PRCA had entered into a similar memorandum of understanding with any other city or county, Stressman said only, “We have had more than one interested party, as far as serious inquiries, about hosting the WNFR.”
And it is possible that some entity other than Osceola County and its fancy new stadium could work a deal to host the WNFR? Even Las Vegas could, conceivably, work its way back into the talks?
“Yes, sir. That is possible,” Stressman said. “That is correct.”
Nonetheless, Christenson is looking past 2014 and this super-sized, invitation-only rodeo.
“We didn’t deal this hand,” he said. “We’re playing it. We are ready and have an alternative plan, and we will succeed with it.”
Faced with the prospect of Las Vegas staging a WNFR-scope event to compete with his organization’s own crowning rodeo, Stressman said, “I don’t blame them for pursuing that. Rodeo is a great sport, and competition is competition, but we don’t want that to happen. I don’t think it’s necessary for us to have two rodeos.”
Stressman said that there will be a point when everyone involved in the WNFR has recovered from working 17 consecutive days and “is thinking clearly” to contact reps from LVE and figure out just what the heck happened here.
“We’ll need to find out what it is we can do and reach out to the LVE, who we’ve been in partnership with for 29 years, and talk to them again. Everybody wants to know what happened here, what went wrong.
“There’s no way we’re going to leave it the way it is.”
But what is the objective of resuming a conversation with the folks in Las Vegas? Is it to resume negotiations or just mend a fractured relationship?
“The answer to both sides of that question would be, ‘Yes,’” Stressman said. “I don’t want to be in a position for LVE to be angry with the way this has gone for the past few days. Knowing them the way I know them, I don’t think they want that, either.
“Our intention was to continue negotiations.”
Maybe the best way to sort out this squabble is to remember the simple fundamentals of team roping: one on the head, one on the heel, and, above all, know how to read your partner. Otherwise, that steer is outta here.
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 12:01 PM Pretty much all your going to get is opinions here. But I will say this, the top 15 in each event voted to pursue this deal with Florida, and apparently did so unanimously. That says alot to me, and should everyone on here. I'm sure there are some smart people in that group, and they didn't take this vote lightly.
Without casting aspersions on the intelligence of the top contestants, realize they are swimming with sharks.
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-17 12:01 PM Pretty much all your going to get is opinions here. But I will say this, the top 15 in each event voted to pursue this deal with Florida, and apparently did so unanimously. That says alot to me, and should everyone on here. I'm sure there are some smart people in that group, and they didn't take this vote lightly.
Without casting aspersions on the intelligence of the top contestants, realize they are swimming with sharks.
Esther - 2013-12-17 11:55 AM PRCA wanted to negotiate the contract. LVE got their feelings hurt, and put out a press release to spiral everything out of control (which it did). Kissimmee and other areas see an opportunity to bid on the finals and are doing so. PRCA can use their bids to up the anty on LVE. LVE is not liking it.
Thank you Esther for putting that in black and white. Much easier for us little and slow people to understand.
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-17 12:03 PM i see similar articles posted already but i'll post this too.......the PRCA is backpedaling as fast as they can but i think it's a done deal and honestly, in the current rodeo climate, i think las vegas has a better chance to come out ahead financially, by moving on without the PRCA than with.....many on this board like competition and think it drives the market.....this may be a great opportunity to test that theory.....might be bigger money for more folks and more options for fans......
LOL! How would you rate their poker skills so far?
I understands everyone else's opinions, and this is one of thee MOST educated threads I have ever read I have learned a tooon just from reading some of the posts, but Clif Cooper made a good point today, he said " The NFR in 2013 brought 90 + million dolors into LVE non gaming revenue, and all the rodeo contestant compete for only 6 million " that is a good point and so was Cesar Dela Cruz too they asked him what his opinion of it was and he said "I rope for money " we have to think of how hard it is for them out there they feed there familys off of the money they win.......so I agree with Clif and Cesar. I mean I know when I look for jackpots to go too if there is one with 500 added and one with 1500 added Ill go where the one with more money is. Vegas will always be there for those who want to shop or party or vacation or whatever they enjoy, and if Vegas wants to fork over a little more then they can have it, but I think if they are bringing in 90 Mil then LVE should be paying out a little more. And I truly believe that rodeo fans will go with it, and right now Florida has more to offer.
The Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association Board of Directors voted Dec. 15 to reject the terms of the current financial offer from Las Vegas Events to extend the WNFR contract past 2014. The PRCA Board did not vote to leave Las Vegas; the vote was made strictly on the content of the current offer. The PRCA continues to carefully consider offers from all potential WNFR hosts.
Esther - 2013-12-17 11:55 AM PRCA wanted to negotiate the contract. LVE got their feelings hurt, and put out a press release to spiral everything out of control (which it did). Kissimmee and other areas see an opportunity to bid on the finals and are doing so. PRCA can use their bids to up the anty on LVE. LVE is not liking it.
Thank you Esther for putting that in black and white. Much easier for us little and slow people to understand.
Both sides are obviously playing the crowd and the PRCA is not known for their expertise in negotiation. I'm all for the contestants making more money, but as a fan I have to look at it from my perspective as well. I've gone to the NFR for the last 8 years. I love the NFR. My mom and I drive down and have been going to 5 nights of the rodeo. There is nothing else like it and I love it. I'm sad to say that it will probably be the end of my going. I'm sure I could handle the extra costs to make it there, everyone has to travel so to me that is a non argument. But several on here have said that is Orlando's busy season and we know that December is a very slow time of the year for Las Vegas. Most in Vegas will tell you that even with the NFR it is still slower than normal. That being said, most all costs of going to the NFR are going to be higher. Tickets to the rodeo might be the same, but I'm sure hotels, transportation, food are all going to cost more in Orlando's busy season than it's been costing in Las Vegas' slow season. I'm sure there are others out there that could handle extra costs in getting there but maybe not extra costs in every single other area.
I also think many contestants will go where the money is. So if LVE is able to offer more money to the contestants, many will chose to go to Las Vegas. They could form another rodeo association and get a lot of contestants away from PRCA and WPRA just like the PBR did.
The article posted here just makes it seem like LVE was pretty tired of dealing with the PRCA...and that they have potentially been looking for someone to fill their spot for a while now...
The article posted here just makes it seem like LVE was pretty tired of dealing with the PRCA...and that they have potentially been looking for someone to fill their spot for a while now...
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-17 12:03 PM i see similar articles posted already but i'll post this too.......the PRCA is backpedaling as fast as they can but i think it's a done deal and honestly, in the current rodeo climate, i think las vegas has a better chance to come out ahead financially, by moving on without the PRCA than with.....many on this board like competition and think it drives the market.....this may be a great opportunity to test that theory.....might be bigger money for more folks and more options for fans......
LOL! How would you rate their poker skills so far?
After reading the article it sounded like the PRCA took a big gamble, and in the "city of sin" lost. The ultimate odds are always in the houses favor; that's why Vegas is still in business. (JMHO)
Yep. Looks to me like the PRCA was in a poker game with LVE and LVE called their bluff instead of upping the ante. It now looks like LVE is done negotiating and whatever new venue they bring up, they will draw the rest of the contestants not at the NFR as long as the money is there and it sounds like it will be. Heck, LVE doesnt even want to give the PRCA the approval. To bad really, because if they put that kind of money up, just look what a dog fight for the standings and new opportunities it brings to the not top 15. Top 15 out of the way so to speak, and that rodeo would count for the new year.
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-17 12:27 PM Yep. Looks to me like the PRCA was in a poker game with LVE and LVE called their bluff instead of upping the ante. It now looks like LVE is done negotiating and whatever new venue they bring up, they will draw the rest of the contestants not at the NFR as long as the money is there and it sounds like it will be. Heck, LVE doesnt even want to give the PRCA the approval. To bad really, because if they put that kind of money up, just look what a dog fight for the standings and new opportunities it brings to the not top 15. Top 15 out of the way so to speak, and that rodeo would count for the new year.
WEST COAST VS. EAST COAST!! Could be a new NFR beginning....lol!
My opinion is that Las Vegas started thinking that if all of these other places can put on the "best" rodeos (Houston, Calgary) without the PRCA so can we. They are attempting to remove the middle man. I'm not sure that is the best thing for anyone who rodeos in the long-term.
I honestly can't believe some of the sour asses on this board and the comments they are making about the contestants. Insulting the contestants intelligence and motives when you have no inside tract as to either! Bottom line: maybe this move will work out, and maybe it won't. The contestants made a stand after being rode hard and put away wet for too long, in hopes of bettering their and their families lives. For this I applaud them! It is easy to settle for a "pretty good" thing, but it is hard to go out on a limb in attempts to improve your situation. The world would be a better place if more people acted in the way of the latter.
Yep. Looks to me like the PRCA was in a poker game with LVE and LVE called their bluff instead of upping the ante. It now looks like LVE is done negotiating and whatever new venue they bring up, they will draw the rest of the contestants not at the NFR as long as the money is there and it sounds like it will be. Heck, LVE doesnt even want to give the PRCA the approval. To bad really, because if they put that kind of money up, just look what a dog fight for the standings and new opportunities it brings to the not top 15. Top 15 out of the way so to speak, and that rodeo would count for the new year.
I can all but absolutely guarantee you that the PRCA will not sanction this rodeo in Vegas if it were to come to fruition (negating any potential "impact" to the new year standings).
Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go.
I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
jojammer - 2013-12-17 3:56 PM Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go. I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
I really don't have a dog in this fight, one way or another. I want to go to the NFR, but I don't care where it's being held, to be honest. That being said, I can think of a dozen places I'd rather visit than Vegas. My initial reaction was it's a bad decision to leave Vegas, but now that I've thought of things, as far as I'm concerned, it might just end up being the right move. All I really care about is pro rodeo and a desire to see it thrive and flourish. Right now, it's just sort of hanging on....clinging. Some of the partcipants didn't make a thin dime. I think that's a dirty shame. That big bulldogger from Canada didn't make a penny for example. He probably lost money this year, for all we know. For goodness sakes, I think the top 15 ought to all at least make something resembling a decent income for a year of top level competition.
Also, to the people who are pointing out that many "city folk" have no interest in rodeo... let me say this. If you bring the NFR to TOWN, somebody will go, and he will tell somebody else, and somebody will know uncle so and so who has an old horse, and bam. You have fans. Many people just don't have the exposure. Expose them to something great, and they will appreciate it.
I also think that we as contestants have a responsibility to rodeo. Used to, anybody could learn to ride. Free. You can still learn, for $200 for some videos, $50 for some halter, and $300 for a 2 day clinic. People, it's YOUR job to expand the sport. Help some kid. Do it for free. Get them started, then let them decide how far they want to take it. To many, it just seems too overwhelming to get into it, so they never do. In my mind, some of that is our fault.
It's always been my thing that if someone wants to learn to ride, I will help. I don't care who or what or how. Every kid should know the love of horses.
jojammer - 2013-12-17 4:17 PM Also, to the people who are pointing out that many "city folk" have no interest in rodeo... let me say this. If you bring the NFR to TOWN, somebody will go, and he will tell somebody else, and somebody will know uncle so and so who has an old horse, and bam. You have fans. Many people just don't have the exposure. Expose them to something great, and they will appreciate it. I also think that we as contestants have a responsibility to rodeo. Used to, anybody could learn to ride. Free. You can still learn, for $200 for some videos, $50 for some halter, and $300 for a 2 day clinic. People, it's YOUR job to expand the sport. Help some kid. Do it for free. Get them started, then let them decide how far they want to take it. To many, it just seems too overwhelming to get into it, so they never do. In my mind, some of that is our fault. It's always been my thing that if someone wants to learn to ride, I will help. I don't care who or what or how. Every kid should know the love of horses.
Also, to the people who are pointing out that many "city folk" have no interest in rodeo... let me say this. If you bring the NFR to TOWN, somebody will go, and he will tell somebody else, and somebody will know uncle so and so who has an old horse, and bam. You have fans. Many people just don't have the exposure. Expose them to something great, and they will appreciate it.
I also think that we as contestants have a responsibility to rodeo. Used to, anybody could learn to ride. Free. You can still learn, for $200 for some videos, $50 for some halter, and $300 for a 2 day clinic. People, it's YOUR job to expand the sport. Help some kid. Do it for free. Get them started, then let them decide how far they want to take it. To many, it just seems too overwhelming to get into it, so they never do. In my mind, some of that is our fault.
It's always been my thing that if someone wants to learn to ride, I will help. I don't care who or what or how. Every kid should know the love of horses.
I agree COMPLETLY, and city folk, love to put there boots on and dresses and cowboy hats and take there kids to the rodeo, and I love that I think its a wonderful experience, when I go to the Mesquite rodeo every year I would bet 80% of the people in the stands are from Dallas and the surrounding areas, and they are completely into it and loving it. And I agree with you also on helping the kids when I first got into horses 15 years ago there were always people there helping me both when I rode English and western, I believe as an athlete and competitor you have to give back what you learned and what your giving and show people the hard work love and dedication that goes into riding and owning horses, and in the end when were to old and gray to rodeo, we can hope that we showed good values and love for the animal that will continue to show through the years. Its like Trevor Brazile said, he was complimented on how well his son behaved and he said that manners and hard work are what our sport was built on, so as long as he is around he is going to enforce those manners and ethics.
I know it may not be an offer, but my choice is OKC. The reason is, we can gamble. We have room to build. We are close to the middle of the east and west coast. It's been here already, but the tribes have way way way more money now than they did then. I think, get them in on it, and you can have any kind of nfr you want. It's usually pretty warm, no snow usually. I don't know about surrounding states and their gambling laws, but if casinos and night life is your attraction, the Indians can do it.
jojammer - 2013-12-17 4:17 PM Also, to the people who are pointing out that many "city folk" have no interest in rodeo... let me say this. If you bring the NFR to TOWN, somebody will go, and he will tell somebody else, and somebody will know uncle so and so who has an old horse, and bam. You have fans. Many people just don't have the exposure. Expose them to something great, and they will appreciate it. I also think that we as contestants have a responsibility to rodeo. Used to, anybody could learn to ride. Free. You can still learn, for $200 for some videos, $50 for some halter, and $300 for a 2 day clinic. People, it's YOUR job to expand the sport. Help some kid. Do it for free. Get them started, then let them decide how far they want to take it. To many, it just seems too overwhelming to get into it, so they never do. In my mind, some of that is our fault. It's always been my thing that if someone wants to learn to ride, I will help. I don't care who or what or how. Every kid should know the love of horses.
I agree with this. I won't simply accept that city folk cant become rodeo fans. How do we know that? They used to say that about baseball....there simply wasn't enough competition for some farm boy to learn to become a pitcher.....then along came a farm boy from Iowa who only had his dad to play catch with. When his dad wasn't available, he threw baseballs and horse turds against the barn. He had to work on the farm and barely had many chances to play ball with other kids. His dad was admonished by the minister for allowing him to play baseball on Sundays when he got a little older, so his dad dumped the church for another that would tolerate baseball on the Sabbath. That boy's name was Bobby Feller and he became one of the greatest pitchers of all time. The kid had a dream to become a ballplayer....and he made it happen, with the support of his dad. My point is, if some inner city boy or girl saw a rodeo and became smitten, maybe...just maybe he/she might figure out a way to get it done. It might be tough to do, but that's what's great about America. You can't tell me that of the tens of millions of kids living in urban areas, there aren't a few who have all the tools to become a great cowboy or cowgirl. If you can't see it, then I submit you have absolutely no imagination, and you haven't read enough about the Bobby Fellers who grace the halls of history.
Mesa Leavitt told me onetime when I asked her how she started riding, and she said that she was with her dad on a business trip, and they went and watched the NFR and she said she fell in love and its all she wanted to do......never had horses never ridden in her life, and her dream began by watching the National Finals rodeo in Las Vegas Nevada one night, my point is it only take one spark to change some ones life dreams and plans.
jojammer - 2013-12-17 4:35 PM I know it may not be an offer, but my choice is OKC. The reason is, we can gamble. We have room to build. We are close to the middle of the east and west coast. It's been here already, but the tribes have way way way more money now than they did then. I think, get them in on it, and you can have any kind of nfr you want. It's usually pretty warm, no snow usually. I don't know about surrounding states and their gambling laws, but if casinos and night life is your attraction, the Indians can do it.
The NFR has been in Dallas I believe, OKC, Madison Square Garden, and Vegas, maybe LA or somewhere before? Still growing. I think every time it's moved, everybody was like omg, it's all over now. Still strong tho. I'm pumped for the change. Can you imagine winning $30,000 for a round!? How freakin cool....
If the LVE is going to put up more money anyway, than why not give it to the NFR?
However my take on another big rodeo is GREAT. I've always felt that more competetion is a great thing. Two big shows a year, more people watching, more money flowing. If your good at what you do, you don't have to worry about competition being better. You just have more people involved.
What if they had 3 or 5 gigantic rodeo's!!! Holy Cow, that would be amazing to me, no matter where they are!!!
There is good and bad with every location. I'll probably be watching from home either way
Since LVE is no longer negotiating, I wonder what they have had in mind. One article I read talked of putting on a Rodeo Super Show...like the one in Dallas in March. How great would that be for those that didn't make the NFR and to be able to go make money at another venue. Have the NFR and a Super Show at the same time on 2 different coasts. Highly doubt it would be sanctioned by PRCA, but it it is beginning of the year for everyone in the PRCA, only 15 per event make the finals. Pretty sure it would draw a large crowd of other members to just try and make some money. JMO. Hope the PRCA gets the deal it wants from which ever venue has the most lucrative offer.
Well........looks like we have a little bit of back peddling going on.
By ALAN SNEL LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
Don’t say happy trails to the National Finals Rodeo quite yet.
The chairman of the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association board, which governs the popular 10-day rodeo held in Las Vegas for nearly three decades, said Monday that his board wants to make a counteroffer that would keep the NFR in Las Vegas after 2014.
The board voted unanimously to approve further negotiations immediately after it voted 6-3 to reject a 10-year deal worth $15 million per year proposed by Las Vegas Events, the nonprofit that promotes the rodeo.
Las Vegas tourism officials took the rejection as the final word, but PRCA Board Chairman Keith Martin on Monday said the board also voted unanimously to submit a counteroffer to Las Vegas Events in hopes of keeping the prized rodeo in Sin City — something Las Vegas Events apparently first learned from the Review-Journal on Monday.
“We want to stay in Las Vegas,” Martin said from his office at the San Antonio Stock Show &Rodeo, where he is executive director and chief executive. Martin was among the three PRCA board members who voted to accept the Las Vegas Events offer.
“If Las Vegas is saying it’s over, then I need to find that out. ... I’m confused on that, frankly,” Martin said.
Las Vegas Events President Pat Christenson said he was unaware of a desire to keep negotiating.
“We didn’t know that they wanted to counter,” Christenson said Monday. “There’s not a lot of time. We’ve been negotiating for over a year and a half. It would have to be timely, in the next two weeks.”
Christenson said he believed Sunday that the PRCA was ready to quit Las Vegas, in part because of a simultaneous Sunday meeting of officials in Florida’s Osceola County to approve a memorandum of understanding offering to build a new 24,000-seat arena and offer $16 million per year in purses and administrative fees to lure the National Finals Rodeo to the Orlando area.
That belief prompted Las Vegas Events on Sunday to say it was “disappointed that the PRCA has chosen to pursue a completely speculative offer versus Las Vegas’ proven 29-year track record.”
Christenson said Sunday that his organization, funded by the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority, already was planning a competing world championship rodeo in Las Vegas for the two weeks in December when the NFR is held. The NFR ended its 29th year in Las Vegas on Saturday night.
Major rodeo events are held in Houston and Calgary without PRCA governance.
Christenson said Martin told Las Vegas Events board member Michael Gaughan about the rejection Sunday but did not tell Gaughan of the subsequent vote to make a counteroffer. Gaughan, a longtime NFR supporter, owns South Point casino-hotel and is working with Christenson on the NFR negotiations.
Martin noted Monday that the PRCA board didn’t vote Sunday to move the Super Bowl of rodeos to Kissimmee, Fla., which is near Disney World and also home to some of the biggest rodeos east of the Mississippi River.
Martin said the PRCA board is legally obligated to consider all offers from other potential host markets, which include Dallas and Oklahoma City.
Martin said he had no contact with Christenson on Sunday, and was surprised when he read the Las Vegas Events president’s comments in the Monday Review-Journal.
“In the form of an article — that was a little bit strange,” Martin said.
Asked why Osceola County commissioners met Sunday to vote on its offer, Martin said only, “The timing — I’m not sure about.”
Martin said the next step is for PRCA Commissioner Karl Stressman to draft the counteroffer to Las Vegas Events.
The 10-day NFR is a big money-maker for Las Vegas at a time of the year when business is slow along the Strip and in other hotels around Las Vegas. The rodeo generates about $60 million in annual spending.
MGM Resorts International’s hotel-casinos host thousands of NFR visitors and issued this statement Monday: “NFR has been a valuable event and partner for almost three decades. Our company and our community would hate to see them leave Las Vegas. However, should rodeo organizers continue down this path, we have the utmost confidence in the ability of Las Vegas Events and Las Vegas as a brand to attract other customers and events to fill the void.”
From 1985-2012, 1.06 million out-of-town visitors came to the NFR, generating an estimated nongaming economic impact of $1.01 billion. In 2011, 44,975 out-of-town visitors came to NFR, while 52,925 out-of-town visitors attended in 2012.
From 1985 to 2012, estimated total event attendance was 4.76 million, which includes local residents.
Contact Alan Snel at asnel@reviewjournal.com or 702-387-5273. Follow Snel on Twitter at @BicycleManSnel.
I saw that article and one other. I think they have another back up already in place. Just my guess, but as said before. The house always has the odds and you better have a dang good poker face if you are going to bluff in Vegas. Hopefully they either work it out or part amicably. I personally think it would be exciting to see the NFR move and another big show. But that is just me.
National Finals Rodeo expected to leave Las Vegas for Florida after nearly 3 decades
Associated Press
LAS VEGAS – The National Finals Rodeo is planning to leave Las Vegas for Florida after 29 years, depriving Sin City of an event that brings nearly $100 million in economic impact annually as thousands of cowboys and rodeo fans descend on the city each December.
News of the tentative deal drew groans from Sin City's powerful hotel and restaurant workers union and others who benefit from the 10-day event, which takes place in the city's tourism slow season. Tourism officials vowed to launch a competing rodeo.
"We are disappointed that the PRCA has chosen to pursue a completely speculative offer versus Las Vegas' proven 29-year track record," Michael Mack, spokesman for Las Vegas Events, said in a statement. "Now that we know the PRCA's true intentions, we will put our full effort into developing a new Series and Finals."
The Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association board voted 6-3 Sunday to turn down Sin City's offer in favor of an agreement with Florida's Osceola County, south of Orlando.
Osceola County commissioners voted 5-0 Sunday to accept a memorandum of understanding that allows 90 days to close the deal. The plan calls for the 2015 event to be held at the nearby Amway Center, home of the Orlando Magic; county officials vowed to have a new, 24,000-seat arena ready for the event by the fall of 2016.
The deal also would include $16 million annually for the rodeo association's prize money and administrative costs, as well as revenue sharing.
"I say we've put together the best incentive package for the PRCA," said Osceola County Commission Chairman Fred Hawkins Jr., who added that he's not ruling out other contender cities just yet. "We have all the venues here to do exactly what the NFR does in Vegas."
The 300,000-person county, home to a rodeo once considered the largest east of the Mississippi, offered about $4 million more than Las Vegas.
"Adding an additional $4 million to the budget would require a 40 percent increase in ticket prices," Mack said. "That is not sustainable. We have to balance the demands of the PRCA with the consequence of pricing our fans out of the market."
The National Finals Rodeo has been an economic boon for Las Vegas, drawing almost 53,000 out-of-town visitors in 2012, according to figures compiled by the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Bureau. That was up from about 45,000 in 2011.
More than 175,000 tickets were sold in 2012 for 10-day event at the Thomas & Mack Center, and the overall economic impact on hotel rooms, restaurants and other expenses was estimated at nearly $93 million, authority spokeswoman Dawn Christensen said.
Figures for the 2013 event, which ended Saturday, weren't immediately available.
The event is a big draw for locals and out-of-towners alike, with country music concerts and rodeo-watching parties held at casinos all over town. Ads on taxis welcome the NFR, while hundreds of vendors pack the Las Vegas Convention Center for a giant Cowboy Fanfest and the Cowboy Christmas Gift Show.
"Extremely disappointed that the #WranglerNFR is leaving the @CityOfLasVegas," tweeted Sen. Dean Heller, R-Nevada.
"Without question, the economy and Vegas workers will feel the negative impact of losing thousands of Rodeo tourists," said Yvanna Cancela, spokeswoman for the large Culinary Union.
Rodeo officials emphasized the decision is not yet final.
"The PRCA Board did not vote to leave Las Vegas; the vote was made strictly on the content of the current offer," association commissioner Karl Stressman said in a statement, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal. "The PRCA continues to carefully consider offers from all potential WNFR hosts."
jojammer - 2013-12-17 3:56 PM Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go. I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
I really don't have a dog in this fight, one way or another. I want to go to the NFR, but I don't care where it's being held, to be honest. That being said, I can think of a dozen places I'd rather visit than Vegas. My initial reaction was it's a bad decision to leave Vegas, but now that I've thought of things, as far as I'm concerned, it might just end up being the right move. All I really care about is pro rodeo and a desire to see it thrive and flourish. Right now, it's just sort of hanging on....clinging. Some of the partcipants didn't make a thin dime. I think that's a dirty shame. That big bulldogger from Canada didn't make a penny for example. He probably lost money this year, for all we know. For goodness sakes, I think the top 15 ought to all at least make something resembling a decent income for a year of top level competition.
They are guaranteed a little bit for just qualifying in case they don't win any money. I think it is 6k, but that is still pretty pitiful In my opinion.
jojammer - 2013-12-17 3:56 PM Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go. I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
I really don't have a dog in this fight, one way or another. I want to go to the NFR, but I don't care where it's being held, to be honest. That being said, I can think of a dozen places I'd rather visit than Vegas. My initial reaction was it's a bad decision to leave Vegas, but now that I've thought of things, as far as I'm concerned, it might just end up being the right move. All I really care about is pro rodeo and a desire to see it thrive and flourish. Right now, it's just sort of hanging on....clinging. Some of the partcipants didn't make a thin dime. I think that's a dirty shame. That big bulldogger from Canada didn't make a penny for example. He probably lost money this year, for all we know. For goodness sakes, I think the top 15 ought to all at least make something resembling a decent income for a year of top level competition.
They are guaranteed a little bit for just qualifying in case they don't win any money. I think it is 6k, but that is still pretty pitiful In my opinion.
jojammer - 2013-12-17 3:56 PM Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go. I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
I really don't have a dog in this fight, one way or another. I want to go to the NFR, but I don't care where it's being held, to be honest. That being said, I can think of a dozen places I'd rather visit than Vegas. My initial reaction was it's a bad decision to leave Vegas, but now that I've thought of things, as far as I'm concerned, it might just end up being the right move. All I really care about is pro rodeo and a desire to see it thrive and flourish. Right now, it's just sort of hanging on....clinging. Some of the partcipants didn't make a thin dime. I think that's a dirty shame. That big bulldogger from Canada didn't make a penny for example. He probably lost money this year, for all we know. For goodness sakes, I think the top 15 ought to all at least make something resembling a decent income for a year of top level competition.
They are guaranteed a little bit for just qualifying in case they don't win any money. I think it is 6k, but that is still pretty pitiful In my opinion.
jojammer - 2013-12-17 3:56 PM Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go. I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
I really don't have a dog in this fight, one way or another. I want to go to the NFR, but I don't care where it's being held, to be honest. That being said, I can think of a dozen places I'd rather visit than Vegas. My initial reaction was it's a bad decision to leave Vegas, but now that I've thought of things, as far as I'm concerned, it might just end up being the right move. All I really care about is pro rodeo and a desire to see it thrive and flourish. Right now, it's just sort of hanging on....clinging. Some of the partcipants didn't make a thin dime. I think that's a dirty shame. That big bulldogger from Canada didn't make a penny for example. He probably lost money this year, for all we know. For goodness sakes, I think the top 15 ought to all at least make something resembling a decent income for a year of top level competition.
They are guaranteed a little bit for just qualifying in case they don't win any money. I think it is 6k, but that is still pretty pitiful In my opinion.
It is actually 10K......
karen
It's still not much
Last year was $13,500, this year should have been $14,000. It went up $500 a year the 6 years Brenda went.
jojammer - 2013-12-17 3:56 PM Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go. I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
I really don't have a dog in this fight, one way or another. I want to go to the NFR, but I don't care where it's being held, to be honest. That being said, I can think of a dozen places I'd rather visit than Vegas. My initial reaction was it's a bad decision to leave Vegas, but now that I've thought of things, as far as I'm concerned, it might just end up being the right move. All I really care about is pro rodeo and a desire to see it thrive and flourish. Right now, it's just sort of hanging on....clinging. Some of the partcipants didn't make a thin dime. I think that's a dirty shame. That big bulldogger from Canada didn't make a penny for example. He probably lost money this year, for all we know. For goodness sakes, I think the top 15 ought to all at least make something resembling a decent income for a year of top level competition.
They are guaranteed a little bit for just qualifying in case they don't win any money. I think it is 6k, but that is still pretty pitiful In my opinion.
It is actually 10K......
karen
It's still not much
Last year was $13,500, this year should have been $14,000. It went up $500 a year the 6 years Brenda went.
Maybe you've answered this somewhere on this 21 page thread and I missed it. LOL Was wondering what you and Brenda think of the move?
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus. That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
You make a good point. Vegas money is more than fair compared to the rest of the year trying to get there.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
Posted 2013-12-18 1:53 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708 Location: Colorado
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
I don't care what Bowlers make.
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
Posted 2013-12-18 6:51 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
I don't care what Bowlers make.
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
I believe that money is also deducted if they win money. lol. It is not theirs free n clear. It's more of a gaurantee they will win at least that much and is deducted from checks won. It should be a bonus, free and clear.
Posted 2013-12-18 8:18 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
I don't care what Bowlers make.
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Karen I looked it up. The number I came up with was 9000 members of the PRCA as of 2011, I believe. Obviously, the overwhelming majority of those are as you put it - "weekend warriors". To me, I would say a "living wage" would be earnings that would cover all expenses, plus enough money to live on, at a minimum. For example, if you look at all 3000+ members of the WPRA, the top 15 make it to the NFR. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard it said that essentially the top 15 qualifiers who make it to the NFR are close to the break even point by the time they make it to Vegas. Whatever they earn at the NFR is basically is what the vast majority "earns" for the year, after all the expenses are taken into account. If you look at Jane Melby's first trip to the NFR in 2011, she entered ranked 11th in the world, with earnings of $63K. She won 3 rounds on Beauty and placed in a 4th, for a total earnings for the NFR of $60K and a total earnings for the year at $123K, but it was that $60K amount that was her earnings for the year after expenses. She wound up 6th in the world after the NFR. I would say that is a decent living wage, but not all that spectacular in this day and age. That's about what a school teacher earns. It's only a handful at the top that really can live off their earnings. In the world of so-called professional sports, when it comes to earnings/winnings, cowgirls and cowboys are sitting at the bottom. Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World. If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando. So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout.
I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now.
Posted 2013-12-18 8:30 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
around my area, rodeos plain don't make money...
Hence why they don't pay better. Insurance is sky high. Blaming producers for not paying enough is pretty unrealistic... i know people that stopped having local rodeos because they were losing money at each event. Not saying the PRCA is this way, but our ammy stuff is. If there are no fans, there's no money being made... and then there is no rodeo.
barrelracr131 - 2013-12-18 8:30 AM around my area, rodeos plain don't make money...
Hence why they don't pay better. Insurance is sky high. Blaming producers for not paying enough is pretty unrealistic... i know people that stopped having local rodeos because they were losing money at each event. Not saying the PRCA is this way, but our ammy stuff is. If there are no fans, there's no money being made... and then there is no rodeo.
I am going to speak just on the ammy side. I sit on the rodeo committee for one of the rodeos around my area. What frustrates me about ammy rodeoes is the guys running the rodeos are not putting a whole heck of a lot of time and effort in to making the rodeo worth going to. This is something I have voiced on the rodeo committee I sit on. And I am not just talking about the stock or the announcer.
If you want to draw crowds, it is time to think outside of the box and sometimes you need to spend money to make money. The rodeo I sit on sells out but they have a lot of opportunities to make that place better and do more and they aren't. And it isn't for lack of time. I know now a good part is just laziness and knowing they are selling out because it is a smaller town. It helps I am in Texas.
I don't buy that it is a losing proposition and there is nothing they can do. There is plenty for the most part. Will some smaller rodeos die? Yes, consolidation always happens. But treat it like a business and you can draw crowds and make money.
Posted 2013-12-18 8:42 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
TXBO - 2013-12-17 9:32 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
You make a good point. Vegas money is more than fair compared to the rest of the year trying to get there.
Posted 2013-12-18 8:44 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
i think you are just way off the path on this.......
Posted 2013-12-18 8:45 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 8:18 AM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
I don't care what Bowlers make.
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Karen I looked it up. The number I came up with was 9000 members of the PRCA as of 2011, I believe. Obviously, the overwhelming majority of those are as you put it - "weekend warriors". To me, I would say a "living wage" would be earnings that would cover all expenses, plus enough money to live on, at a minimum. For example, if you look at all 3000+ members of the WPRA, the top 15 make it to the NFR. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard it said that essentially the top 15 qualifiers who make it to the NFR are close to the break even point by the time they make it to Vegas. Whatever they earn at the NFR is basically is what the vast majority "earns" for the year, after all the expenses are taken into account. If you look at Jane Melby's first trip to the NFR in 2011, she entered ranked 11th in the world, with earnings of $63K. She won 3 rounds on Beauty and placed in a 4th, for a total earnings for the NFR of $60K and a total earnings for the year at $123K, but it was that $60K amount that was her earnings for the year after expenses. She wound up 6th in the world after the NFR. I would say that is a decent living wage, but not all that spectacular in this day and age. That's about what a school teacher earns. It's only a handful at the top that really can live off their earnings. In the world of so-called professional sports, when it comes to earnings/winnings, cowgirls and cowboys are sitting at the bottom.
Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World.
If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando.
So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout.
Dang Scott.....are you sure you're not working for Obama.....
Posted 2013-12-18 9:00 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 823 Location: East Texas
It could go either way, it could help the sport if the PRCA will play their cards right, or it could basically be the end of the organization. One thing the other sports have embraced is that they are in the entertainment industry. I am not sure the PRCA has figured that out. You have to put on an entertainment event to get the fans.....fans bring sponsors, etc., etc....
Posted 2013-12-18 9:27 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 8:45 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 8:18 AM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
I don't care what Bowlers make.
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Karen I looked it up. The number I came up with was 9000 members of the PRCA as of 2011, I believe. Obviously, the overwhelming majority of those are as you put it - "weekend warriors". To me, I would say a "living wage" would be earnings that would cover all expenses, plus enough money to live on, at a minimum. For example, if you look at all 3000+ members of the WPRA, the top 15 make it to the NFR. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard it said that essentially the top 15 qualifiers who make it to the NFR are close to the break even point by the time they make it to Vegas. Whatever they earn at the NFR is basically is what the vast majority "earns" for the year, after all the expenses are taken into account. If you look at Jane Melby's first trip to the NFR in 2011, she entered ranked 11th in the world, with earnings of $63K. She won 3 rounds on Beauty and placed in a 4th, for a total earnings for the NFR of $60K and a total earnings for the year at $123K, but it was that $60K amount that was her earnings for the year after expenses. She wound up 6th in the world after the NFR. I would say that is a decent living wage, but not all that spectacular in this day and age. That's about what a school teacher earns. It's only a handful at the top that really can live off their earnings. In the world of so-called professional sports, when it comes to earnings/winnings, cowgirls and cowboys are sitting at the bottom.
Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World.
If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando.
So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout.
Dang Scott.....are you sure you're not working for Obama.....
Care to elaborate, Dave? Obama? How so? Let's hear your ideas. I'm not being snarky....seriously. I'm just thinking outloud. I'm working from the premise that the NFR won't be in Vegas, so maybe this will wind up being an opportunity.
Posted 2013-12-18 9:36 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304 Location: Texas
Wherever it moves, it needs to get with the folks over the marketing of the Houston rodeo. You talk about bringing in some $$ to the area -- and trust me, the majority of the crowd are straight up city. It's packed EVERY SINGLE perf and we're not talking about 17k seats, either.
Posted 2013-12-18 9:38 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
sassy&tessa - 2013-12-18 8:26 AM I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now.
Actually I did take that into account. I remember Ryan Melby telling me back in 2011 when Jane was on her way to her first NFR. His comment was roughly $65K barely covered expenses, and thats about what her earnings were leading up to the NFR. She wound up winning about $60K at the NFR....basically her net income for the year after expenses. I bet her expenses were a lot higher than they thought. I'd have to look it up, but I believe Fallon Taylor hauled to almost twice the number of rodeos than Cervi last year, so her expenses were probably considerably higher. I wouldn't be surprised if she hauled 100,000 miles. That right there would run right around $40K in fuel expenses alone, give or take.
Posted 2013-12-18 9:39 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-18 9:36 AM Wherever it moves, it needs to get with the folks over the marketing of the Houston rodeo. You talk about bringing in some $$ to the area -- and trust me, the majority of the crowd are straight up city. It's packed EVERY SINGLE perf and we're not talking about 17k seats, either.
Posted 2013-12-18 9:54 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
Lets also not forget the patch program for contestant's sponsors. It is up to the contestant to make the deal with the sponsors, but I can tell you for a fact the average price per month per patch is $1000 a month. Now times that by x number of patches and it does cover alot of the costs to get down the road.
Posted 2013-12-18 9:57 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:48 AM Pro rodeo is more akin to organized professional gambling than it is organized professional sports.
You are right on this in that you gamble every time you enter. I dont care what event you work or if your a timey or a roughy. You can draw a bum calf, miss a loop, get bucked off or hit a barrel. So it is a gamble and you dont get paid unless things fall your way and you place. Rodeo contestants dont have the gauranteed pay check yearly salary like other professional sports like baseball, football, or basketball.
Posted 2013-12-18 9:59 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:39 AM
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-18 9:36 AM Wherever it moves, it needs to get with the folks over the marketing of the Houston rodeo. You talk about bringing in some $$ to the area -- and trust me, the majority of the crowd are straight up city. It's packed EVERY SINGLE perf and we're not talking about 17k seats, either.
Posted 2013-12-18 10:06 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 673 Location: Where it isn’t cold!
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-18 7:36 AM
Wherever it moves, it needs to get with the folks over the marketing of the Houston rodeo. You talk about bringing in some $$ to the area -- and trust me, the majority of the crowd are straight up city. It's packed EVERY SINGLE perf and we're not talking about 17k seats, either.
I think the big drawing card for Houston is more the singers that perform there than the rodeo. The rodeo is just part of what you get for the ticket price. Having sat in there for many of the rodeo perfs, it doesn't really start to fill up til 30-45 minutes before that nights "star" is scheduled to sing. I might be way off base here, but that appears to be the big draw at Houston.
Posted 2013-12-18 10:07 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708 Location: Colorado
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:38 AM
sassy&tessa - 2013-12-18 8:26 AM I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now.
Actually I did take that into account. I remember Ryan Melby telling me back in 2011 when Jane was on her way to her first NFR. His comment was roughly $65K barely covered expenses, and thats about what her earnings were leading up to the NFR. She wound up winning about $60K at the NFR....basically her net income for the year after expenses. I bet her expenses were a lot higher than they thought.
I'd have to look it up, but I believe Fallon Taylor hauled to almost twice the number of rodeos than Cervi last year, so her expenses were probably considerably higher. I wouldn't be surprised if she hauled 100,000 miles. That right there would run right around $40K in fuel expenses alone, give or take.
So I haul to a rodeo 30 miles from home.... $300.00 entry fees. Someone else decdides to haul to that same rodeo from 500 miles away. Who is going smart and who isn't? Should we compensate the person who traveled 500 miles more so they can make a living wage? Now what if I have a traveling partner and for what ever reason the other person does not? Heck I'll pick up a couple of rough stock guys along the way. I'm generous like that.
Posted 2013-12-18 10:11 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-18 9:57 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:48 AM Pro rodeo is more akin to organized professional gambling than it is organized professional sports.
You are right on this in that you gamble every time you enter. I dont care what event you work or if your a timey or a roughy. You can draw a bum calf, miss a loop, get bucked off or hit a barrel. So it is a gamble and you dont get paid unless things fall your way and you place. Rodeo contestants dont have the gauranteed pay check yearly salary like other professional sports like baseball, football, or basketball.
True, but is it completely unrealistic to hope to see that change? NASCAR drivers get a base salary that is negotiated, plus endorsements, plus winnings. Is it possible to see the top tier rodeo competitors earning some sort of base salary? I can see all sorts of possibiities where endorsement opportunities really expand. It all really depends on promoting the sport and seeing an explosion in the fan base. If that ever happens, opportunities will open up. Right now the only endorsements are for feeds, supplements, saddles and equipment, for the most part. When rodeo stars reach a sort of celebrity status and begin to more regularly endorse cereal, pizza, after shave, cosmetics, McDonalds, etc.....then that will be huge.
Posted 2013-12-18 10:14 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708 Location: Colorado
sassy&tessa - 2013-12-18 8:26 AM I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now.
So the million dollar guestion..... How do those rodeos come up with more money?? How much should the local business owners and towns cough up? How many rodeos do we see go away because of lack of sponsors.
Posted 2013-12-18 10:15 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 10:07 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:38 AM
sassy&tessa - 2013-12-18 8:26 AM I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now.
Actually I did take that into account. I remember Ryan Melby telling me back in 2011 when Jane was on her way to her first NFR. His comment was roughly $65K barely covered expenses, and thats about what her earnings were leading up to the NFR. She wound up winning about $60K at the NFR....basically her net income for the year after expenses. I bet her expenses were a lot higher than they thought.
I'd have to look it up, but I believe Fallon Taylor hauled to almost twice the number of rodeos than Cervi last year, so her expenses were probably considerably higher. I wouldn't be surprised if she hauled 100,000 miles. That right there would run right around $40K in fuel expenses alone, give or take.
So I haul to a rodeo 30 miles from home.... $300.00 entry fees. Someone else decdides to haul to that same rodeo from 500 miles away. Who is going smart and who isn't? Should we compensate the person who traveled 500 miles more so they can make a living wage? Now what if I have a traveling partner and for what ever reason the other person does not? Heck I'll pick up a couple of rough stock guys along the way. I'm generous like that.
Posted 2013-12-18 10:18 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846 Location: Florida..
we all make choices as to what we want to do. its a gamble. I support the contestants 100% but to argue the facts of $$ and circumstances to me is silly. our choices.. in any horse disciple its the same.. money from sponsors.. partners.. our money their money.. money we win or lose.. its our choices to pursue the dream.
Posted 2013-12-18 10:20 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
Maybe the governing bodies ie: PRCA, in their approvals should charge a $2.00 per admission ticket to be paid to go directly towards the purse so we can get more added money.
Posted 2013-12-18 10:29 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Leggs
Posts: 4680 Location: lexington KY
Bibliafarm - 2013-12-18 11:18 AM we all make choices as to what we want to do. its a gamble. I support the contestants 100% but to argue the facts of $$ and circumstances to me is silly. our choices.. in any horse disciple its the same.. money from sponsors.. partners.. our money their money.. money we win or lose.. its our choices to pursue the dream.
I agree 100%! I think that is what is great about our sport, everyone has a chance to pursue the dream. Not everyone can be the quarterback on a major football team and make millions every year. However if you work hard and push hard and want it bad enough, anyone has the chance to succeed in rodeo. That is what makes this sport absolutely amazing. Personally I would love to see them make more money, that is great! However I never want it to be like other professional sports I love that rodeo still stays true to the American dream. There is absolute room for improvement but sometimes making something all about money doesnt make it better.
Posted 2013-12-18 10:34 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:27 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 8:45 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 8:18 AM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
I don't care what Bowlers make.
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Karen I looked it up. The number I came up with was 9000 members of the PRCA as of 2011, I believe. Obviously, the overwhelming majority of those are as you put it - "weekend warriors". To me, I would say a "living wage" would be earnings that would cover all expenses, plus enough money to live on, at a minimum. For example, if you look at all 3000+ members of the WPRA, the top 15 make it to the NFR. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard it said that essentially the top 15 qualifiers who make it to the NFR are close to the break even point by the time they make it to Vegas. Whatever they earn at the NFR is basically is what the vast majority "earns" for the year, after all the expenses are taken into account. If you look at Jane Melby's first trip to the NFR in 2011, she entered ranked 11th in the world, with earnings of $63K. She won 3 rounds on Beauty and placed in a 4th, for a total earnings for the NFR of $60K and a total earnings for the year at $123K, but it was that $60K amount that was her earnings for the year after expenses. She wound up 6th in the world after the NFR. I would say that is a decent living wage, but not all that spectacular in this day and age. That's about what a school teacher earns. It's only a handful at the top that really can live off their earnings. In the world of so-called professional sports, when it comes to earnings/winnings, cowgirls and cowboys are sitting at the bottom.
Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World.
If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando.
So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout.
Dang Scott.....are you sure you're not working for Obama.....
Care to elaborate, Dave? Obama? How so?
Let's hear your ideas. I'm not being snarky....seriously. I'm just thinking outloud. I'm working from the premise that the NFR won't be in Vegas, so maybe this will wind up being an opportunity.
LOL....just his whole living wage thing for people that want to make a 'living' playing sports instead of an actual job with benefits........sounds more like an Obama plan for the top rodeo cowboys .......which could really generate a whole new department to deal with it, even a website that is linked to the PRCA website.....of course it may not actually be accessible....and you may not actually get any benefits.......all kidding aside, these professional athletes at the top of the heap are going to get your living wage but what is your entitlement solution for, lets say, the top 50 in each event so that they get the living wage they deserve....????should the PRCA increase members fees and add taxes on fan tickets to provide health benefits to their high risk pool (oh wait, obamacare has already done that so they don't need to worry about that anymore) .....so that just leaves the retirement plan that certain ropers want.......and fine if they can get that stuff but you are talking a financial base that is always going to be way smaller no matter how you try to grow it compared to the things you bring up.....honestly i think this competition between venues might be just the thing pro rodeo needs at this point to give more 'athletes' an opportunity to make money.......
i will be in vegas for whatever they put on in 2015 and not orlando.....
Posted 2013-12-18 10:34 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
You just got to get mean and mean it.
Location: Arkansas
How about just doing away with Rodeo...it's just too expensive, don't make any money. LOL
Is that what your saying with the moaning and groaning about arriving in LV broke? It's always been known that rodeoing was expensive and not a money earner...but additive!
It's always been on my Bucket List to go to Las Vegas and the WNFR...and this year, got to check it off! What a wonderful experience in Sin City, The World finals was just the icing on the cake, cherry on top!
Florida won'thave the same excietment as Las Vegas, no matter how they cut it!
Posted 2013-12-18 10:34 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-18 10:20 AM Maybe the governing bodies ie: PRCA, in their approvals should charge a $2.00 per admission ticket to be paid to go directly towards the purse so we can get more added money.
At rodeos around here, the gate is already helping pay to put the rodeo on. Gate money belongs to the committee, and they use it to to pay for the rodeo, including added money. Sponsor money doesn't cover the cost of the rodeo. That is why several $1000-$1500 added rodeos cost $18-$25 to get in. One rodeo I know gives tickets to every child in the local grade school.
Posted 2013-12-18 10:36 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304 Location: Texas
Shorty 2 - 2013-12-18 10:06 AM
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-18 7:36 AM Wherever it moves, it needs to get with the folks over the marketing of the Houston rodeo. You talk about bringing in some $$ to the area -- and trust me, the majority of the crowd are straight up city. It's packed EVERY SINGLE perf and we're not talking about 17k seats, either.
I think the big drawing card for Houston is more the singers that perform there than the rodeo. The rodeo is just part of what you get for the ticket price. Having sat in there for many of the rodeo perfs, it doesn't really start to fill up til 30-45 minutes before that nights "star" is scheduled to sing. I might be way off base here, but that appears to be the big draw at Houston.
Who cares?
Christmas pales in comparison for the western stores to the rodeo (and that's just one industry). People go out to eat, stay around Reliant, etc, etc. The money it generates for the local economy is insane. That's the point at the end of the day. The return on the investment.
My company gets a box (for a night) each year because it coincides with a big conference and the foreigners EAT IT UP.
Posted 2013-12-18 11:01 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 10:34 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:27 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 8:45 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 8:18 AM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
I don't care what Bowlers make.
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Karen I looked it up. The number I came up with was 9000 members of the PRCA as of 2011, I believe. Obviously, the overwhelming majority of those are as you put it - "weekend warriors". To me, I would say a "living wage" would be earnings that would cover all expenses, plus enough money to live on, at a minimum. For example, if you look at all 3000+ members of the WPRA, the top 15 make it to the NFR. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard it said that essentially the top 15 qualifiers who make it to the NFR are close to the break even point by the time they make it to Vegas. Whatever they earn at the NFR is basically is what the vast majority "earns" for the year, after all the expenses are taken into account. If you look at Jane Melby's first trip to the NFR in 2011, she entered ranked 11th in the world, with earnings of $63K. She won 3 rounds on Beauty and placed in a 4th, for a total earnings for the NFR of $60K and a total earnings for the year at $123K, but it was that $60K amount that was her earnings for the year after expenses. She wound up 6th in the world after the NFR. I would say that is a decent living wage, but not all that spectacular in this day and age. That's about what a school teacher earns. It's only a handful at the top that really can live off their earnings. In the world of so-called professional sports, when it comes to earnings/winnings, cowgirls and cowboys are sitting at the bottom.
Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World.
If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando.
So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout.
Dang Scott.....are you sure you're not working for Obama.....
Care to elaborate, Dave? Obama? How so?
Let's hear your ideas. I'm not being snarky....seriously. I'm just thinking outloud. I'm working from the premise that the NFR won't be in Vegas, so maybe this will wind up being an opportunity.
LOL....just his whole living wage thing for people that want to make a 'living' playing sports instead of an actual job with benefits........sounds more like an Obama plan for the top rodeo cowboys .......which could really generate a whole new department to deal with it, even a website that is linked to the PRCA website.....of course it may not actually be accessible....and you may not actually get any benefits.......all kidding aside, these professional athletes at the top of the heap are going to get your living wage but what is your entitlement solution for, lets say, the top 50 in each event so that they get the living wage they deserve....????should the PRCA increase members fees and add taxes on fan tickets to provide health benefits to their high risk pool (oh wait, obamacare has already done that so they don't need to worry about that anymore) .....so that just leaves the retirement plan that certain ropers want.......and fine if they can get that stuff but you are talking a financial base that is always going to be way smaller no matter how you try to grow it compared to the things you bring up.....honestly i think this competition between venues might be just the thing pro rodeo needs at this point to give more 'athletes' an opportunity to make money.......
i will be in vegas for whatever they put on in 2015 and not orlando.....
All along what I have been trying to say is based on free market principles. I think there is much more opportunity to see increased popularity and hence increased revenues in the sport. That's all I am getting at. I'm talking more exposure to more people, and everything else that would follow in any market-driven endeavor. The PRCA is supposedly "not-for-profit", but that can be misleading as hell. Nothing about what I am trying to say is based on an entitlement model at all. My mistake was in the use of the term "living wage"......that sounded like an Obama-ism. Today, without family money, etc..., you simply can't "chase the dream" for very long even if you are darned good. I want to see that change and I think it can. If nothing else, this whole Vegas/Orlando discussion has served to focus on something where improvement is necessary, in my opinion.
Posted 2013-12-18 11:15 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary:
*I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
*And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a
naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see
what you get.....
*Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each
year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year
*Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC
*My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and
the fans
so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all
Posted 2013-12-18 11:21 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425 Location: Riding Crackhead.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 10:11 AM
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-18 9:57 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:48 AM Pro rodeo is more akin to organized professional gambling than it is organized professional sports.
You are right on this in that you gamble every time you enter. I dont care what event you work or if your a timey or a roughy. You can draw a bum calf, miss a loop, get bucked off or hit a barrel. So it is a gamble and you dont get paid unless things fall your way and you place. Rodeo contestants dont have the gauranteed pay check yearly salary like other professional sports like baseball, football, or basketball.
True, but is it completely unrealistic to hope to see that change?
NASCAR drivers get a base salary that is negotiated, plus endorsements, plus winnings. Is it possible to see the top tier rodeo competitors earning some sort of base salary? I can see all sorts of possibiities where endorsement opportunities really expand. It all really depends on promoting the sport and seeing an explosion in the fan base. If that ever happens, opportunities will open up. Right now the only endorsements are for feeds, supplements, saddles and equipment, for the most part. When rodeo stars reach a sort of celebrity status and begin to more regularly endorse cereal, pizza, after shave, cosmetics, McDonalds, etc.....then that will be huge.
In order to get paid like your talking the money would have to come from a governing body who will start dictating where the contestants go, what are you feeding your horses because God forbid did that particular company give enough money to said governing body even though your horse might not do well on it, are they injured so should they ride tonight, what are they wearing (more so than they do now so lets not get started on that) etc etc. I think one of the greatest things about rodeo is you make up your own mind about daily decisions.
Posted 2013-12-18 11:21 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky
chicks2 - 2013-12-18 12:15 PM Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary: *I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard *And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see what you get..... *Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year *Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC *My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and the fans so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all
Why is the east coast "ridiculous"?
As far as food prices being cheap in Vegas.... seriously?
Posted 2013-12-18 11:23 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
chicks2 - 2013-12-18 11:15 AM Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary: *I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard *And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see what you get..... *Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year *Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC *My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and the fans so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all
140 hour work weeks....wow.....that is impressive....
Posted 2013-12-18 11:36 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
Posted 2013-12-18 11:38 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519 Location: Arizona
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 10:23 AM
chicks2 - 2013-12-18 11:15 AM Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary: *I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard *And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see what you get..... *Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year *Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC *My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and the fans so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all
140 hour work weeks....wow.....that is impressive....
I don't think it's a naïve statement at all....I do 40hrs and earn a pay check...it's their choice on how many hours they put in to get their pay check......
Posted 2013-12-18 11:39 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:36 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
Posted 2013-12-18 11:40 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304 Location: Texas
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:36 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
Posted 2013-12-18 11:44 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351 Location: Bastrop, Texas
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:36 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
Posted 2013-12-18 11:44 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Location: Exactly where I am supposed to be
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:36 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
Posted 2013-12-18 11:46 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 823 Location: East Texas
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 11:01 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 10:34 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:27 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 8:45 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 8:18 AM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM
Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup.
Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care if it's $6K as Yellowhorse said, or $10 K as you said, or the current number of $13500. My point all along is that I think it is pathetic that of the 10,000 pros in the PRCA, maybe a handful can earn even a living wage, after expenses. If you qualify for the Pro Bowlers Association, It costs $150 dollars a year to be a member, and even for a pro bowler the average salary runs between $35-40K a year. That's for about 1 bowling event per month, on the average.
I don't care what Bowlers make.
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Karen I looked it up. The number I came up with was 9000 members of the PRCA as of 2011, I believe. Obviously, the overwhelming majority of those are as you put it - "weekend warriors". To me, I would say a "living wage" would be earnings that would cover all expenses, plus enough money to live on, at a minimum. For example, if you look at all 3000+ members of the WPRA, the top 15 make it to the NFR. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard it said that essentially the top 15 qualifiers who make it to the NFR are close to the break even point by the time they make it to Vegas. Whatever they earn at the NFR is basically is what the vast majority "earns" for the year, after all the expenses are taken into account. If you look at Jane Melby's first trip to the NFR in 2011, she entered ranked 11th in the world, with earnings of $63K. She won 3 rounds on Beauty and placed in a 4th, for a total earnings for the NFR of $60K and a total earnings for the year at $123K, but it was that $60K amount that was her earnings for the year after expenses. She wound up 6th in the world after the NFR. I would say that is a decent living wage, but not all that spectacular in this day and age. That's about what a school teacher earns. It's only a handful at the top that really can live off their earnings. In the world of so-called professional sports, when it comes to earnings/winnings, cowgirls and cowboys are sitting at the bottom.
Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World.
If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando.
So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout.
Dang Scott.....are you sure you're not working for Obama.....
Care to elaborate, Dave? Obama? How so?
Let's hear your ideas. I'm not being snarky....seriously. I'm just thinking outloud. I'm working from the premise that the NFR won't be in Vegas, so maybe this will wind up being an opportunity.
LOL....just his whole living wage thing for people that want to make a 'living' playing sports instead of an actual job with benefits........sounds more like an Obama plan for the top rodeo cowboys .......which could really generate a whole new department to deal with it, even a website that is linked to the PRCA website.....of course it may not actually be accessible....and you may not actually get any benefits.......all kidding aside, these professional athletes at the top of the heap are going to get your living wage but what is your entitlement solution for, lets say, the top 50 in each event so that they get the living wage they deserve....????should the PRCA increase members fees and add taxes on fan tickets to provide health benefits to their high risk pool (oh wait, obamacare has already done that so they don't need to worry about that anymore) .....so that just leaves the retirement plan that certain ropers want.......and fine if they can get that stuff but you are talking a financial base that is always going to be way smaller no matter how you try to grow it compared to the things you bring up.....honestly i think this competition between venues might be just the thing pro rodeo needs at this point to give more 'athletes' an opportunity to make money.......
i will be in vegas for whatever they put on in 2015 and not orlando.....
All along what I have been trying to say is based on free market principles. I think there is much more opportunity to see increased popularity and hence increased revenues in the sport. That's all I am getting at. I'm talking more exposure to more people, and everything else that would follow in any market-driven endeavor. The PRCA is supposedly "not-for-profit", but that can be misleading as hell. Nothing about what I am trying to say is based on an entitlement model at all. My mistake was in the use of the term "living wage"......that sounded like an Obama-ism. Today, without family money, etc..., you simply can't "chase the dream" for very long even if you are darned good. I want to see that change and I think it can. If nothing else, this whole Vegas/Orlando discussion has served to focus on something where improvement is necessary, in my opinion.
Posted 2013-12-18 11:48 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
God Is My Light - 2013-12-18 11:44 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:36 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
Posted 2013-12-18 11:50 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864 Location: In the Hills of Texas
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:36 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
Posted 2013-12-18 11:51 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382 Location: ND
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:50 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:36 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
With you old farts that will be a short movie.
hey now.....we can certainly make it as long as Last Vegas!!!!
Posted 2013-12-18 11:56 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:36 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
I bet if we could get Stressman in the poker room for a couple hours, we could pay for the trip.
Posted 2013-12-18 11:58 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:50 AM
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:36 AM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
Posted 2013-12-18 11:58 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 823 Location: East Texas
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-18 11:21 AM
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 10:11 AM
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-18 9:57 AM
TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:48 AM Pro rodeo is more akin to organized professional gambling than it is organized professional sports.
You are right on this in that you gamble every time you enter. I dont care what event you work or if your a timey or a roughy. You can draw a bum calf, miss a loop, get bucked off or hit a barrel. So it is a gamble and you dont get paid unless things fall your way and you place. Rodeo contestants dont have the gauranteed pay check yearly salary like other professional sports like baseball, football, or basketball.
True, but is it completely unrealistic to hope to see that change?
NASCAR drivers get a base salary that is negotiated, plus endorsements, plus winnings. Is it possible to see the top tier rodeo competitors earning some sort of base salary? I can see all sorts of possibiities where endorsement opportunities really expand. It all really depends on promoting the sport and seeing an explosion in the fan base. If that ever happens, opportunities will open up. Right now the only endorsements are for feeds, supplements, saddles and equipment, for the most part. When rodeo stars reach a sort of celebrity status and begin to more regularly endorse cereal, pizza, after shave, cosmetics, McDonalds, etc.....then that will be huge.
In order to get paid like your talking the money would have to come from a governing body who will start dictating where the contestants go, what are you feeding your horses because God forbid did that particular company give enough money to said governing body even though your horse might not do well on it, are they injured so should they ride tonight, what are they wearing (more so than they do now so lets not get started on that) etc etc. I think one of the greatest things about rodeo is you make up your own mind about daily decisions.
Someone said pro rodeo was alot of gambling.... If it is, you don't wanted to be like the NFL.
CYA you are right. There are 10 signs like this one in every NFL locker room tell players what to wear and how to wear it. What they can and can not take, etc.
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:48 AM RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
I bet if we could get Stressman in the poker room for a couple hours, we could pay for the trip.
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
Take my word for it....you DON'T want to go with "those" guys!
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
Take my word for it....you DON'T want to go with "those" guys!
Someone needs to go and keep them toeing the line LOL
I would be willing to chaperone because I think it would be quite hilarious
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:48 AM RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
I like to shop in Pahrump.
I don't have any dogs in this fight but your comment just made me LOL in my office and now the woman next to me wants to know why I think what I'm supposed to be doing is so funny....
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:48 AM RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
I like to shop in Pahrump.
I don't have any dogs in this fight but your comment just made me LOL in my office and now the woman next to me wants to know why I think what I'm supposed to be doing is so funny....
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
hey....were capitalists.....you're in ....until we have a better offer.....
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
hey....were capitalists.....you're in ....until we have a better offer.....
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
hey....were capitalists.....you're in ....until we have a better offer.....
I've got bourbon.
That's getting two of the 3B's with one rock. You're in.
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
hey....were capitalists.....you're in ....until we have a better offer.....
Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary:
*I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
*And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a
naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see
what you get.....
*Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each
year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year
*Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC
*My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and
the fans
so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all
I guess your not familiar with the history of rodeo and Madison square garden?
chicks2 - 2013-12-18 11:15 AM Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary: *I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard *And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see what you get..... *Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year *Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC *My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and the fans so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all
I guess your not familiar with the history of rodeo and Madison square garden?
sassy&tessa - 2013-12-18 8:26 AM I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now.
So the million dollar guestion..... How do those rodeos come up with more money?? How much should the local business owners and towns cough up? How many rodeos do we see go away because of lack of sponsors.
karen
You do realize that the number of sanctioned prca rodeos and the amount of prize money offered is up, don't you?
chicks2 - 2013-12-18 11:15 AM Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary: *I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard *And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see what you get..... *Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year *Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC *My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and the fans so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all
I guess your not familiar with the history of rodeo and Madison square garden?
very different era, my friend......
Yes, but things and times change my friend....and who is to say this is not just part of that evolution again?
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
hey....were capitalists.....you're in ....until we have a better offer.....
I've got bourbon.
I have van winkle... A bottle of vanblankie if you want to get serious
Why would a move to somewhere like Orlando lead to a loss of pro rodeo "as we know it"? I suppose to someone who lives out west or even midwest, maybe that's true, but I don't see rodeo itself changing...unless we are talking about a change for the better.
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
hey....were capitalists.....you're in ....until we have a better offer.....
I've got bourbon.
I have van winkle... A bottle of vanblankie if you want to get serious I'd be a terrible chaperone
you would just spill everything to that darn Jennifer
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 2:00 PM Why would a move to somewhere like Orlando lead to a loss of pro rodeo "as we know it"? I suppose to someone who lives out west or even midwest, maybe that's true, but I don't see rodeo itself changing...unless we are talking about a change for the better.
FOCUS, MAN, FOCUS........WE ARE HEADED FOR VEGAS....NO TIME FOR MICKEY!!!!
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
What about RWR ?
RWR is just providing funds although i don't think we weill be able to get by on $1300 apiece for the week....he may have to step it up a little....we might do a lot of shopping to .....
If I provided double his funds can I come ????? :D:D:D:D
hey....were capitalists.....you're in ....until we have a better offer.....
I've got bourbon.
I have van winkle... A bottle of vanblankie if you want to get serious I'd be a terrible chaperone
you would just spill everything to that darn Jennifer
Why would a move to somewhere like Orlando lead to a loss of pro rodeo "as we know it"? I suppose to someone who lives out west or even midwest, maybe that's true, but I don't see rodeo itself changing...unless we are talking about a change for the better.
I live in Texas. And sure I would like to see it in Dallas, but do I think Orlando would be the end of the NFR and rodeo as we know it? Heck no! I think there is a strong chance it could actually help grow the sport! Most of the argument on here against the move seem to be from folks who just like going to Vegas! I like it to, I've been many times. But Orlando is nice to. And I would still go there to see the NFR. I like rodeo, so I'm sure if they moved the NFR to Minot ND I would make that trip to at some point. And I bet alot of others who actually ATTEND the rodeo would to.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 2:00 PM Why would a move to somewhere like Orlando lead to a loss of pro rodeo "as we know it"? I suppose to someone who lives out west or even midwest, maybe that's true, but I don't see rodeo itself changing...unless we are talking about a change for the better.
I live in Texas. And sure I would like to see it in Dallas, but do I think Orlando would be the end of the NFR and rodeo as we know it? Heck no! I think there is a strong chance it could actually help grow the sport! Most of the argument on here against the move seem to be from folks who just like going to Vegas! I like it to, I've been many times. But Orlando is nice to. And I would still go there to see the NFR. I like rodeo, so I'm sure if they moved the NFR to Minot ND I would make that trip to at some point. And I bet alot of others who actually ATTEND the rodeo would to.
that was funny....and i suspect those that attend the rodeo might just go to minot in december and maybe fly in for one performance and fly out.......lol
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 2:00 PM Why would a move to somewhere like Orlando lead to a loss of pro rodeo "as we know it"? I suppose to someone who lives out west or even midwest, maybe that's true, but I don't see rodeo itself changing...unless we are talking about a change for the better.
FOCUS, MAN, FOCUS........WE ARE HEADED FOR VEGAS....NO TIME FOR MICKEY!!!!
YES Scott focus, I am offering triple the money and ill drive y'alls butts around now can I come ??????
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 2:39 PM You know I might seriously consider this road trip.....but Minot? I'd rather drink broken glass. I would have to be drunk.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 2:39 PM You know I might seriously consider this road trip.....but Minot? I'd rather drink broken glass. I would have to be drunk.
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 2:39 PM You know I might seriously consider this road trip.....but Minot? I'd rather drink broken glass. I would have to be drunk.
Minot is great....
They have a nice zoo.
and lots of money....hell, minot would sell out an arena with at least 30k fans 10 days in a row for the NFR without anyone coming from anywhere else.....
HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 2:39 PM You know I might seriously consider this road trip.....but Minot? I'd rather drink broken glass. I would have to be drunk.
Minot is great....
They have a nice zoo.
and lots of money....hell, minot would sell out an arena with at least 30k fans 10 days in a row for the NFR without anyone coming from anywhere else.....
I do not understand why barrel racers don't look at the big picture....If PRCA has the NFR in Florida, Vegas will have it's own finals too. This is EXACTLY what the barrel racers should be wanting and being very vocal PUSHING FOR IT. If you had two places trying to get the top barrel racers they are going to put up the $$ to get them there and will be competing against each other by offering more money to the CONTESTANTS in order to make sure the best come to their city.
If you try to BLUFF Vegas now with another offer and Vegas comes back with a $2M increase you have NOT "won". Heck you haven't even "won" even if they match the Florida money. Vegas will still have the monopoly and know it and will only give bare minimum years to come, and will know that you are trying to bluff them the next time and will do the same thing by offering a little more then they first offered when you reject them in 10 yrs.
I would take advantage of the situation now since we actually have someone seriously wanting us, and ENSURE that Florida is locked in for 10 years, and then the two will be competing for the best competitors by continuously adding more money when the contracts expire.
To sum if up.....how will BARREL RACERS GET PAID THE MOST.....STRONGLY SUPPORT the FLORIDA decision and get them locked in for at least another 10 years. I would also hurry up and do it before they back out.
The only way to get the most $$ for your product is to have an ONGOING competitor.....you want Florida AND Vegas to both have events for years so they will be ongoing competitors and pay the barrel racers as much as they can, rather than bare minimum since there is no ongoing competitor.
i am a little isolated because this is the only place i really follow a little but was just seeing some other places and the overwhelming amount of people who are stating very strongly that they are going to continue going to vegas or will not go to florida
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 4:41 PM i am a little isolated because this is the only place i really follow a little but was just seeing some other places and the overwhelming amount of people who are stating very strongly that they are going to continue going to vegas or will not go to florida
I've got several professional colleagues that go every year. They don't know any of the contestants, don't know who won and don't go to any other rodeos throughout the year.
Two observations. 1. If they are going to have to "spend alot of money" then why aren't they willing to spend what it takes to keep the NFR? 2. This guy really looks like he into the "rodeo/cowboy" lifestyle....soparanoes probably more his cup of tea.
That actually was my thought. (#1)
He's not trying to compete for the best cowboys. He's trying to retain the fans.
Two thoughts here. Again, if they are going to spend more money why not have the best in the sport still. And I want someone to answer this question. Names in rodeo aren't house hold names per say, but that still doesn't mean they are not figured into the equation of drawing spectators to the NFR. I want somebody on here to tell me they honestly think you could move the UPRA finals to Vegas in the time slot the NFR occupied, even offering the same prize money, but just the top 15 currenty in the UPRA and still sell out the THOMAS and MACK for 10 nights in a row. I just can't buy that!
This has been my exact arguement, but of course everyone is just blah blah blah Vegas will have a huge event and they will show up if the money is there. I'm sorry, call me old fashioned but I still think that gold buckle and title MEANS something to these competitors in the Top 15.
jojammer - 2013-12-17 2:56 PM Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go. I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
Alot of the contestants do it because its their passion.. their heart , their drive to get there..the Love of what they are doing.. and the satisfaction they Made it ... . not like the nfl where They will get there millions whether they win or lose the games..
jojammer - 2013-12-17 2:56 PM Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go. I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
Thank you!
Yeah, the contestants go to Vegas because of the NFR being there. There are fans who go to Vegas because that's where the NFR is also, but there's a huge segment who go to Vegas because it's Vegas. I know people who had never been to a rodeo on their lives and happened to win tickets or get them cheap or whatever and that's what hooks them. So now there's a rodeo in town that they see when they go to Vegas, but that's not why they go. And those are the people who go see the PBR when it's in town, or go see the Rebels do whatever they're doing, or see Endurocross or go watch UFC. Those fans, the ones that enjoy the rodeo and get to play dress up for a few nights and love to just hang out with fans like them, those people aren't going to go anywhere else but Vegas for that experience.
Now I have no idea how much of the NFR fan base is made of people like these, but if there's more than just a few, this move isn't going to work out in favor of anyone. Then were does the money come from for the contestants? From sponsors that aren't seeing the support they used to see? Is Cowboy Christmas moving? Or will some of the vendors go and some stay at whatever they come up with in Vegas? These could all be moot points (or moo points...) if LVE ends up coming back with another offer, but if not, it's food for thought.
Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
I bet if we could get Stressman in the poker room for a couple hours, we could pay for the trip.
dam straight.....
I would like to order two copies of the DVD now and will pay extra if you get clips of the comish when all those chips go away. Please!
jojammer - 2013-12-17 2:56 PM Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go. I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
Thank you!
Yeah, the contestants go to Vegas because of the NFR being there. There are fans who go to Vegas because that's where the NFR is also, but there's a huge segment who go to Vegas because it's Vegas. I know people who had never been to a rodeo on their lives and happened to win tickets or get them cheap or whatever and that's what hooks them. So now there's a rodeo in town that they see when they go to Vegas, but that's not why they go. And those are the people who go see the PBR when it's in town, or go see the Rebels do whatever they're doing, or see Endurocross or go watch UFC. Those fans, the ones that enjoy the rodeo and get to play dress up for a few nights and love to just hang out with fans like them, those people aren't going to go anywhere else but Vegas for that experience.
Now I have no idea how much of the NFR fan base is made of people like these, but if there's more than just a few, this move isn't going to work out in favor of anyone. Then were does the money come from for the contestants? From sponsors that aren't seeing the support they used to see? Is Cowboy Christmas moving? Or will some of the vendors go and some stay at whatever they come up with in Vegas? These could all be moot points (or moo points...) if LVE ends up coming back with another offer, but if not, it's food for thought.
Any fans like that who are lost from the move from Vegas will be replaced by the same type of fans who will come to FL. Everybody keeps saying "oh, now it will be such a far drive, so no fans will go", but good grief, there are many many people east of Vegas....
This is how it looks to me from what I've read.
Vegas says, nah, we can't build an arena to hold any more people, thereby capping the amount of money to be made off seats. Sorry.
Florida says, Hey PRCA, we wanna put on the NFR, so we'll give you that arena, and we'll add some $.
PRCA says, well shoot, I'll think about it.
Vegas says, Hey, hey world, guess what? PRCA dumped us! Suckers! Nevermind we won't budge on our offer. But hey y'all, get mad at PRCA and come to the "finals" we are gonna have. It'll be better. Vegas is the only place with fans, and fun, and food, and blabla. Nevermind some of you have never been to Fl, so you don't even know, but it's nothing but Mickey Mouse. It's just gonna suck. And btw, who cares about all the fans on the other half of the country, but the fans right around us are mad. We really didn't see this coming, prca is making a mistake, but we HAVE been thinking about how we're gonna replace the NFR. Just last minute though, really.
My prediction: PRCA says, well, we're goin to FL, and guess what? ...... the NFR and the PRCA do live on, in spite of losing Vegas, and the seats...... fill with ...... fans.
And they all lived happily everafter :)
I'm sorry, but Vegas didn't make the PRCA, and they won't break them either.
How in the world is Vegas going to put on a bigger better event than the NFR, when the NFR will have more seats, better arena, more $ in the round, but Vegas won't spend any more $ ? That makes no sense.
I do not understand why barrel racers don't look at the big picture....If PRCA has the NFR in Florida, Vegas will have it's own finals too. This is EXACTLY what the barrel racers should be wanting and being very vocal PUSHING FOR IT. If you had two places trying to get the top barrel racers they are going to put up the $$ to get them there and will be competing against each other by offering more money to the CONTESTANTS in order to make sure the best come to their city.
If you try to BLUFF Vegas now with another offer and Vegas comes back with a $2M increase you have NOT "won". Heck you haven't even "won" even if they match the Florida money. Vegas will still have the monopoly and know it and will only give bare minimum years to come, and will know that you are trying to bluff them the next time and will do the same thing by offering a little more then they first offered when you reject them in 10 yrs.
I would take advantage of the situation now since we actually have someone seriously wanting us, and ENSURE that Florida is locked in for 10 years, and then the two will be competing for the best competitors by continuously adding more money when the contracts expire.
To sum if up.....how will BARREL RACERS GET PAID THE MOST.....STRONGLY SUPPORT the FLORIDA decision and get them locked in for at least another 10 years. I would also hurry up and do it before they back out.
The only way to get the most $$ for your product is to have an ONGOING competitor.....you want Florida AND Vegas to both have events for years so they will be ongoing competitors and pay the barrel racers as much as they can, rather than bare minimum since there is no ongoing competitor.
How in the world is Vegas going to put on a bigger better event than the NFR, when the NFR will have more seats, better arena, more $ in the round, but Vegas won't spend any more $ ? That makes no sense.
And they will be missing the top cowboys and cowgirls if they put it on at the same time
Posts: 4565 Location: I can see the end of the world from here!
Just to point out that the $90 million or whatever is what the NFR adds to the tax base in Vegas...it's NOT what LVE makes off of it. One other point...the contestants do not pay for their rooms while there...or entry fees.
Just to point out that the $90 million or whatever is what the NFR adds to the tax base in Vegas...it's NOT what LVE makes off of it. One other point...the contestants do not pay for their rooms while there...or entry fees.
LVE is non profit. 90 million is what is added to the local economy, then you would have applicable sales tax on that 90 million.
And I'm sure hotels in Orlando will gladly comp the contestants rooms and I would be positive someone will cover their entry fees there also.
Any fans like that who are lost from the move from Vegas will be replaced by the same type of fans who will come to FL. Everybody keeps saying "oh, now it will be such a far drive, so no fans will go", but good grief, there are many many people east of Vegas.... This is how it looks to me from what I've read. Vegas says, nah, we can't build an arena to hold any more people, thereby capping the amount of money to be made off seats. Sorry. Florida says, Hey PRCA, we wanna put on the NFR, so we'll give you that arena, and we'll add some $. PRCA says, well shoot, I'll think about it. Vegas says, Hey, hey world, guess what? PRCA dumped us! Suckers! Nevermind we won't budge on our offer. But hey y'all, get mad at PRCA and come to the "finals" we are gonna have. It'll be better. Vegas is the only place with fans, and fun, and food, and blabla. Nevermind some of you have never been to Fl, so you don't even know, but it's nothing but Mickey Mouse. It's just gonna suck. And btw, who cares about all the fans on the other half of the country, but the fans right around us are mad. We really didn't see this coming, prca is making a mistake, but we HAVE been thinking about how we're gonna replace the NFR. Just last minute though, really. My prediction: PRCA says, well, we're goin to FL, and guess what? ...... the NFR and the PRCA do live on, in spite of losing Vegas, and the seats...... fill with ...... fans. And they all lived happily everafter :) I'm sorry, but Vegas didn't make the PRCA, and they won't break them either.
Kissimmee Rodeo payout dropped over $10,000 from the late 80's to the mid 90's. Due to LOW attendance.
The MGM IS building a new arena. Scheduled to be finished by NFR time 2016
Do you have any idea how close to bankruptcy the PRCA was at the time of the move to Vegas??
Posts: 4565 Location: I can see the end of the world from here!
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-18 8:19 PM
musikmaker - 2013-12-18 9:11 PM Just to point out that the $90 million or whatever is what the NFR adds to the tax base in Vegas...it's NOT what LVE makes off of it. One other point...the contestants do not pay for their rooms while there...or entry fees.
LVE is non profit. 90 million is what is added to the local economy, then you would have applicable sales tax on that 90 million. And I'm sure hotels in Orlando will gladly comp the contestants rooms and I would be positive someone will cover their entry fees there also.
I'm pretty sure that's what I stated...it's the 'tax base' NOT what LVE took in...I see a few on here saying that if they make that much then they could afford to pay out more. I love rodeo myself, but, I see where it would be a tough sell to get it up there with the rest of the sports...the contestants kinda like having the choice of picking what rodeos they want to enter, if any, how hard they want to go. The independence allows them choices...it's the cowboy way. They need to stop thinking of rodeo as a 'sport' (as far as the marketing & the fans) and market it as the 'show' that it is. One that is unique from all others...one that highlights the necessity & beauty of man working with nature...at it's finest. The sportmanship, the love & athletic ability that provides a glimpse into the everyday life of the western lifestyle....one that can only be found in one area of the world. It's the stuff that movies are made of! Lol...Orlando just doesn't cut it.
musikmaker - 2013-12-18 9:11 PM Just to point out that the $90 million or whatever is what the NFR adds to the tax base in Vegas...it's NOT what LVE makes off of it. One other point...the contestants do not pay for their rooms while there...or entry fees.
LVE is non profit. 90 million is what is added to the local economy, then you would have applicable sales tax on that 90 million. And I'm sure hotels in Orlando will gladly comp the contestants rooms and I would be positive someone will cover their entry fees there also.
I'm pretty sure that's what I stated...it's the 'tax base' NOT what LVE took in...I see a few on here saying that if they make that much then they could afford to pay out more. I love rodeo myself, but, I see where it would be a tough sell to get it up there with the rest of the sports...the contestants kinda like having the choice of picking what rodeos they want to enter, if any, how hard they want to go. The independence allows them choices...it's the cowboy way. They need to stop thinking of rodeo as a 'sport' (as far as the marketing & the fans) and market it as the 'show' that it is. One that is unique from all others...one that highlights the necessity & beauty of man working with nature...at it's finest. The sportmanship, the love & athletic ability that provides a glimpse into the everyday life of the western lifestyle....one that can only be found in one area of the world. It's the stuff that movies are made of! Lol...Orlando just doesn't cut it.
There is no way you or anyone else can know if Orlando "cuts it" till they have hosted for a few years!
jojammer - 2013-12-18 8:35 PM How in the world is Vegas going to put on a bigger better event than the NFR, when the NFR will have more seats, better arena, more $ in the round, but Vegas won't spend any more $ ? That makes no sense.
do you guys really think that 6 thousand more seats is really that big of a deal here in the big picture of things......???
jojammer - 2013-12-18 8:35 PM How in the world is Vegas going to put on a bigger better event than the NFR, when the NFR will have more seats, better arena, more $ in the round, but Vegas won't spend any more $ ? That makes no sense.
And they will be missing the top cowboys and cowgirls if they put it on at the same time
well, i'd bet 16-30 would love to be able to run at more money than they could make at the NFR....and without the PRCA they will be able to do more things and have more money to run at......likely enough that 15 places might get paid every night......then you're gonna have some ****ed off top 15'ers because for some of them it's not just about a gold buckle....it's about a BIG paycheck...
Back in Oklahoma, it will never happen, that arena is too small, but centrally located. I'd love to have it in TX, not Jerrys World though. Parking is outrageous, driving through Arlington is crazy, I'd rather drive to Houston. San Antonio would be nice, but I don't think the money and arena is there. Houston should cough up some money.
musikmaker - 2013-12-18 9:11 PM Just to point out that the $90 million or whatever is what the NFR adds to the tax base in Vegas...it's NOT what LVE makes off of it.
One other point...the contestants do not pay for their rooms while there...or entry fees.
LVE is non profit. 90 million is what is added to the local economy, then you would have applicable sales tax on that 90 million. And I'm sure hotels in Orlando will gladly comp the contestants rooms and I would be positive someone will cover their entry fees there also.
90 million is what is generated that week....the NFR isn't the only game in town that week....i would like to see what an estimated breakdown of spending is by wstr fans versus nfr fans..........and orlando is not as cheap so not as much is going to be spread around to different business......if i'm paying more for a room....more for meals....more for transport....more for 'kid' activities....how much do you think is left to spend on vendors?????
aand i really think that vegas is going to see a drop but not a big drop and over 2-3 years will have as big an influx of rodeo fans as they had before or bigger......
which in the end is great for rodeo and the professional athletes....might not be so good for PRCA though
Any fans like that who are lost from the move from Vegas will be replaced by the same type of fans who will come to FL. Everybody keeps saying "oh, now it will be such a far drive, so no fans will go", but good grief, there are many many people east of Vegas.... This is how it looks to me from what I've read. Vegas says, nah, we can't build an arena to hold any more people, thereby capping the amount of money to be made off seats. Sorry. Florida says, Hey PRCA, we wanna put on the NFR, so we'll give you that arena, and we'll add some $. PRCA says, well shoot, I'll think about it. Vegas says, Hey, hey world, guess what? PRCA dumped us! Suckers! Nevermind we won't budge on our offer. But hey y'all, get mad at PRCA and come to the "finals" we are gonna have. It'll be better. Vegas is the only place with fans, and fun, and food, and blabla. Nevermind some of you have never been to Fl, so you don't even know, but it's nothing but Mickey Mouse. It's just gonna suck. And btw, who cares about all the fans on the other half of the country, but the fans right around us are mad. We really didn't see this coming, prca is making a mistake, but we HAVE been thinking about how we're gonna replace the NFR. Just last minute though, really. My prediction: PRCA says, well, we're goin to FL, and guess what? ...... the NFR and the PRCA do live on, in spite of losing Vegas, and the seats...... fill with ...... fans. And they all lived happily everafter :) I'm sorry, but Vegas didn't make the PRCA, and they won't break them either.
Kissimmee Rodeo payout dropped over $10,000 from the late 80's to the mid 90's. Due to LOW attendance.
The MGM IS building a new arena. Scheduled to be finished by NFR time 2016
Do you have any idea how close to bankruptcy the PRCA was at the time of the move to Vegas??
karen
see guys....the arena really wan't an issue.....and PRCA knew that....
musikmaker - 2013-12-18 9:11 PM Just to point out that the $90 million or whatever is what the NFR adds to the tax base in Vegas...it's NOT what LVE makes off of it.
One other point...the contestants do not pay for their rooms while there...or entry fees.
LVE is non profit. 90 million is what is added to the local economy, then you would have applicable sales tax on that 90 million. And I'm sure hotels in Orlando will gladly comp the contestants rooms and I would be positive someone will cover their entry fees there also.
I'm pretty sure that's what I stated...it's the 'tax base' NOT what LVE took in...I see a few on here saying that if they make that much then they could afford to pay out more.
I love rodeo myself, but, I see where it would be a tough sell to get it up there with the rest of the sports...the contestants kinda like having the choice of picking what rodeos they want to enter, if any, how hard they want to go. The independence allows them choices...it's the cowboy way.
They need to stop thinking of rodeo as a 'sport' (as far as the marketing & the fans) and market it as the 'show' that it is. One that is unique from all others...one that highlights the necessity & beauty of man working with nature...at it's finest. The sportmanship, the love & athletic ability that provides a glimpse into the everyday life of the western lifestyle....one that can only be found in one area of the world. It's the stuff that movies are made of! Lol...Orlando just doesn't cut it.
Posts: 4565 Location: I can see the end of the world from here!
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 9:13 PM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-18 9:19 PM
musikmaker - 2013-12-18 9:11 PM Just to point out that the $90 million or whatever is what the NFR adds to the tax base in Vegas...it's NOT what LVE makes off of it.
One other point...the contestants do not pay for their rooms while there...or entry fees.
LVE is non profit. 90 million is what is added to the local economy, then you would have applicable sales tax on that 90 million. And I'm sure hotels in Orlando will gladly comp the contestants rooms and I would be positive someone will cover their entry fees there also.
90 million is what is generated that week....the NFR isn't the only game in town that week....i would like to see what an estimated breakdown of spending is by wstr fans versus nfr fans..........and orlando is not as cheap so not as much is going to be spread around to different business......if i'm paying more for a room....more for meals....more for transport....more for 'kid' activities....how much do you think is left to spend on vendors?????
aand i really think that vegas is going to see a drop but not a big drop and over 2-3 years will have as big an influx of rodeo fans as they had before or bigger......
which in the end is great for rodeo and the professional athletes....might not be so good for PRCA though
Someone said that it brought 60,000 people to town...divide that by the $90 Mil and you've got about $1,500 that they spend apiece. I have no clue if those numbers are accurate, just using what's been thrown out there.
Any fans like that who are lost from the move from Vegas will be replaced by the same type of fans who will come to FL. Everybody keeps saying "oh, now it will be such a far drive, so no fans will go", but good grief, there are many many people east of Vegas.... This is how it looks to me from what I've read. Vegas says, nah, we can't build an arena to hold any more people, thereby capping the amount of money to be made off seats. Sorry. Florida says, Hey PRCA, we wanna put on the NFR, so we'll give you that arena, and we'll add some $. PRCA says, well shoot, I'll think about it. Vegas says, Hey, hey world, guess what? PRCA dumped us! Suckers! Nevermind we won't budge on our offer. But hey y'all, get mad at PRCA and come to the "finals" we are gonna have. It'll be better. Vegas is the only place with fans, and fun, and food, and blabla. Nevermind some of you have never been to Fl, so you don't even know, but it's nothing but Mickey Mouse. It's just gonna suck. And btw, who cares about all the fans on the other half of the country, but the fans right around us are mad. We really didn't see this coming, prca is making a mistake, but we HAVE been thinking about how we're gonna replace the NFR. Just last minute though, really. My prediction: PRCA says, well, we're goin to FL, and guess what? ...... the NFR and the PRCA do live on, in spite of losing Vegas, and the seats...... fill with ...... fans. And they all lived happily everafter :) I'm sorry, but Vegas didn't make the PRCA, and they won't break them either.
Kissimmee Rodeo payout dropped over $10,000 from the late 80's to the mid 90's. Due to LOW attendance.
The MGM IS building a new arena. Scheduled to be finished by NFR time 2016
Do you have any idea how close to bankruptcy the PRCA was at the time of the move to Vegas??
karen
see guys....the arena really wan't an issue.....and PRCA knew that....
Yeah and it seems that some members of LVE are calling for the Comish to step down. Would like to be a fly on the wall at HQ.
Posts: 4565 Location: I can see the end of the world from here!
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-18 8:52 PM
musikmaker - 2013-12-18 9:39 PM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-18 8:19 PM
musikmaker - 2013-12-18 9:11 PM Just to point out that the $90 million or whatever is what the NFR adds to the tax base in Vegas...it's NOT what LVE makes off of it.
One other point...the contestants do not pay for their rooms while there...or entry fees.
LVE is non profit. 90 million is what is added to the local economy, then you would have applicable sales tax on that 90 million. And I'm sure hotels in Orlando will gladly comp the contestants rooms and I would be positive someone will cover their entry fees there also.
I'm pretty sure that's what I stated...it's the 'tax base' NOT what LVE took in...I see a few on here saying that if they make that much then they could afford to pay out more.
I love rodeo myself, but, I see where it would be a tough sell to get it up there with the rest of the sports...the contestants kinda like having the choice of picking what rodeos they want to enter, if any, how hard they want to go. The independence allows them choices...it's the cowboy way.
They need to stop thinking of rodeo as a 'sport' (as far as the marketing & the fans) and market it as the 'show' that it is. One that is unique from all others...one that highlights the necessity & beauty of man working with nature...at it's finest. The sportmanship, the love & athletic ability that provides a glimpse into the everyday life of the western lifestyle....one that can only be found in one area of the world. It's the stuff that movies are made of! Lol...Orlando just doesn't cut it.
There is no way you or anyone else can know if Orlando "cuts it" till they have hosted for a few years!
I'm sure you're right...maybe they'll even start making westerns in Florida! Not trying to be sarcastic...just pointing out that 'cowboy' is 'rodeo' to the majority of the world & I deal with people every day who come 'out west' to see it. I hope that whatever happens it's good for all!
musikmaker - 2013-12-18 9:11 PM Just to point out that the $90 million or whatever is what the NFR adds to the tax base in Vegas...it's NOT what LVE makes off of it.
One other point...the contestants do not pay for their rooms while there...or entry fees.
LVE is non profit. 90 million is what is added to the local economy, then you would have applicable sales tax on that 90 million. And I'm sure hotels in Orlando will gladly comp the contestants rooms and I would be positive someone will cover their entry fees there also.
90 million is what is generated that week....the NFR isn't the only game in town that week....i would like to see what an estimated breakdown of spending is by wstr fans versus nfr fans..........and orlando is not as cheap so not as much is going to be spread around to different business......if i'm paying more for a room....more for meals....more for transport....more for 'kid' activities....how much do you think is left to spend on vendors?????
aand i really think that vegas is going to see a drop but not a big drop and over 2-3 years will have as big an influx of rodeo fans as they had before or bigger......
which in the end is great for rodeo and the professional athletes....might not be so good for PRCA though
Someone said that it brought 60,000 people to town...divide that by the $90 Mil and you've got about $1,500 that they spend apiece. I have no clue if those numbers are accurate, just using what's been thrown out there.
i'm thinking those numbers are inclusive of everything that happens in Las Vegas over that time....unless those are the estimations for just the NFR??? although i'm sure it would be hard to teasee out because there is certainly some crossover....
Any fans like that who are lost from the move from Vegas will be replaced by the same type of fans who will come to FL. Everybody keeps saying "oh, now it will be such a far drive, so no fans will go", but good grief, there are many many people east of Vegas.... This is how it looks to me from what I've read. Vegas says, nah, we can't build an arena to hold any more people, thereby capping the amount of money to be made off seats. Sorry. Florida says, Hey PRCA, we wanna put on the NFR, so we'll give you that arena, and we'll add some $. PRCA says, well shoot, I'll think about it. Vegas says, Hey, hey world, guess what? PRCA dumped us! Suckers! Nevermind we won't budge on our offer. But hey y'all, get mad at PRCA and come to the "finals" we are gonna have. It'll be better. Vegas is the only place with fans, and fun, and food, and blabla. Nevermind some of you have never been to Fl, so you don't even know, but it's nothing but Mickey Mouse. It's just gonna suck. And btw, who cares about all the fans on the other half of the country, but the fans right around us are mad. We really didn't see this coming, prca is making a mistake, but we HAVE been thinking about how we're gonna replace the NFR. Just last minute though, really. My prediction: PRCA says, well, we're goin to FL, and guess what? ...... the NFR and the PRCA do live on, in spite of losing Vegas, and the seats...... fill with ...... fans. And they all lived happily everafter :) I'm sorry, but Vegas didn't make the PRCA, and they won't break them either.
Kissimmee Rodeo payout dropped over $10,000 from the late 80's to the mid 90's. Due to LOW attendance.
The MGM IS building a new arena. Scheduled to be finished by NFR time 2016
Do you have any idea how close to bankruptcy the PRCA was at the time of the move to Vegas??
karen
see guys....the arena really wan't an issue.....and PRCA knew that....
Yeah and it seems that some members of LVE are calling for the Comish to step down. Would like to be a fly on the wall at HQ.
karen
what commmish??? and if you are meaning PRCA, why would lve call for that???
musikmaker - 2013-12-18 9:11 PM Just to point out that the $90 million or whatever is what the NFR adds to the tax base in Vegas...it's NOT what LVE makes off of it. One other point...the contestants do not pay for their rooms while there...or entry fees.
LVE is non profit. 90 million is what is added to the local economy, then you would have applicable sales tax on that 90 million. And I'm sure hotels in Orlando will gladly comp the contestants rooms and I would be positive someone will cover their entry fees there also.
I'm pretty sure that's what I stated...it's the 'tax base' NOT what LVE took in...I see a few on here saying that if they make that much then they could afford to pay out more. I love rodeo myself, but, I see where it would be a tough sell to get it up there with the rest of the sports...the contestants kinda like having the choice of picking what rodeos they want to enter, if any, how hard they want to go. The independence allows them choices...it's the cowboy way. They need to stop thinking of rodeo as a 'sport' (as far as the marketing & the fans) and market it as the 'show' that it is. One that is unique from all others...one that highlights the necessity & beauty of man working with nature...at it's finest. The sportmanship, the love & athletic ability that provides a glimpse into the everyday life of the western lifestyle....one that can only be found in one area of the world. It's the stuff that movies are made of! Lol...Orlando just doesn't cut it.
There is no way you or anyone else can know if Orlando "cuts it" till they have hosted for a few years!
wellll.....that is true but as a business you have to try to tease through all the data and demographics to make a decision as to whether it's worth the risk to make a big move like that....or kinda go with the flow and say 'we need to pass this to find out what in it...'.......and then find out later that maybe you should have taken a closer look.....but it will work for ten years for the contestants for sure
jojammer - 2013-12-17 2:56 PM Contestants go to Vegas because it's the NFR, not vice versa. Now if these contestants work all year, then at the end trying to make the finals spend most of what they made to get there, they do need to run at more $. If Vegas rakes in all that $ and won't pay more, then I think PRCA should move. How very selfish of the fans to wish the contestants to run at less money so they can go to the finals where they want. If you wanna go to Vegas, just go. I think FL will be better, bigger. I personally would love to see it come back to OKC because it's in the middle of the country, but I really don't care where it is as long as it's good for PRCA contestants.
Thank you!
Yeah, the contestants go to Vegas because of the NFR being there. There are fans who go to Vegas because that's where the NFR is also, but there's a huge segment who go to Vegas because it's Vegas. I know people who had never been to a rodeo on their lives and happened to win tickets or get them cheap or whatever and that's what hooks them. So now there's a rodeo in town that they see when they go to Vegas, but that's not why they go. And those are the people who go see the PBR when it's in town, or go see the Rebels do whatever they're doing, or see Endurocross or go watch UFC. Those fans, the ones that enjoy the rodeo and get to play dress up for a few nights and love to just hang out with fans like them, those people aren't going to go anywhere else but Vegas for that experience.
Now I have no idea how much of the NFR fan base is made of people like these, but if there's more than just a few, this move isn't going to work out in favor of anyone. Then were does the money come from for the contestants? From sponsors that aren't seeing the support they used to see? Is Cowboy Christmas moving? Or will some of the vendors go and some stay at whatever they come up with in Vegas? These could all be moot points (or moo points...) if LVE ends up coming back with another offer, but if not, it's food for thought.
Any fans like that who are lost from the move from Vegas will be replaced by the same type of fans who will come to FL. Everybody keeps saying "oh, now it will be such a far drive, so no fans will go", but good grief, there are many many people east of Vegas....
This is how it looks to me from what I've read.
Vegas says, nah, we can't build an arena to hold any more people, thereby capping the amount of money to be made off seats. Sorry.
Florida says, Hey PRCA, we wanna put on the NFR, so we'll give you that arena, and we'll add some $.
PRCA says, well shoot, I'll think about it.
Vegas says, Hey, hey world, guess what? PRCA dumped us! Suckers! Nevermind we won't budge on our offer. But hey y'all, get mad at PRCA and come to the "finals" we are gonna have. It'll be better. Vegas is the only place with fans, and fun, and food, and blabla. Nevermind some of you have never been to Fl, so you don't even know, but it's nothing but Mickey Mouse. It's just gonna suck. And btw, who cares about all the fans on the other half of the country, but the fans right around us are mad. We really didn't see this coming, prca is making a mistake, but we HAVE been thinking about how we're gonna replace the NFR. Just last minute though, really.
My prediction: PRCA says, well, we're goin to FL, and guess what? ...... the NFR and the PRCA do live on, in spite of losing Vegas, and the seats...... fill with ...... fans.
And they all lived happily everafter :)
I'm sorry, but Vegas didn't make the PRCA, and they won't break them either.
Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know...
Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over?
This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in?
Any fans like that who are lost from the move from Vegas will be replaced by the same type of fans who will come to FL. Everybody keeps saying "oh, now it will be such a far drive, so no fans will go", but good grief, there are many many people east of Vegas.... This is how it looks to me from what I've read. Vegas says, nah, we can't build an arena to hold any more people, thereby capping the amount of money to be made off seats. Sorry. Florida says, Hey PRCA, we wanna put on the NFR, so we'll give you that arena, and we'll add some $. PRCA says, well shoot, I'll think about it. Vegas says, Hey, hey world, guess what? PRCA dumped us! Suckers! Nevermind we won't budge on our offer. But hey y'all, get mad at PRCA and come to the "finals" we are gonna have. It'll be better. Vegas is the only place with fans, and fun, and food, and blabla. Nevermind some of you have never been to Fl, so you don't even know, but it's nothing but Mickey Mouse. It's just gonna suck. And btw, who cares about all the fans on the other half of the country, but the fans right around us are mad. We really didn't see this coming, prca is making a mistake, but we HAVE been thinking about how we're gonna replace the NFR. Just last minute though, really. My prediction: PRCA says, well, we're goin to FL, and guess what? ...... the NFR and the PRCA do live on, in spite of losing Vegas, and the seats...... fill with ...... fans. And they all lived happily everafter :) I'm sorry, but Vegas didn't make the PRCA, and they won't break them either.
Kissimmee Rodeo payout dropped over $10,000 from the late 80's to the mid 90's. Due to LOW attendance.
The MGM IS building a new arena. Scheduled to be finished by NFR time 2016
Do you have any idea how close to bankruptcy the PRCA was at the time of the move to Vegas??
karen
see guys....the arena really wan't an issue.....and PRCA knew that....
Yeah and it seems that some members of LVE are calling for the Comish to step down. Would like to be a fly on the wall at HQ.
karen
what commmish??? and if you are meaning PRCA, why would lve call for that???
Yep the PRCA Commish. If LVE had an offer on the table for over 14 months and there were no discussions....... THEN the FL offer comes along.
Even Martin said that the PRCA did NOT vote to leave Vegas but had rejected the initial offer. Meaning they were open to negotiation. Then the press releases started flying.
Think your odds at that poker game are better than average.
Any fans like that who are lost from the move from Vegas will be replaced by the same type of fans who will come to FL. Everybody keeps saying "oh, now it will be such a far drive, so no fans will go", but good grief, there are many many people east of Vegas.... This is how it looks to me from what I've read. Vegas says, nah, we can't build an arena to hold any more people, thereby capping the amount of money to be made off seats. Sorry. Florida says, Hey PRCA, we wanna put on the NFR, so we'll give you that arena, and we'll add some $. PRCA says, well shoot, I'll think about it. Vegas says, Hey, hey world, guess what? PRCA dumped us! Suckers! Nevermind we won't budge on our offer. But hey y'all, get mad at PRCA and come to the "finals" we are gonna have. It'll be better. Vegas is the only place with fans, and fun, and food, and blabla. Nevermind some of you have never been to Fl, so you don't even know, but it's nothing but Mickey Mouse. It's just gonna suck. And btw, who cares about all the fans on the other half of the country, but the fans right around us are mad. We really didn't see this coming, prca is making a mistake, but we HAVE been thinking about how we're gonna replace the NFR. Just last minute though, really. My prediction: PRCA says, well, we're goin to FL, and guess what? ...... the NFR and the PRCA do live on, in spite of losing Vegas, and the seats...... fill with ...... fans. And they all lived happily everafter :) I'm sorry, but Vegas didn't make the PRCA, and they won't break them either.
Kissimmee Rodeo payout dropped over $10,000 from the late 80's to the mid 90's. Due to LOW attendance.
The MGM IS building a new arena. Scheduled to be finished by NFR time 2016
Do you have any idea how close to bankruptcy the PRCA was at the time of the move to Vegas??
karen
see guys....the arena really wan't an issue.....and PRCA knew that....
Yeah and it seems that some members of LVE are calling for the Comish to step down. Would like to be a fly on the wall at HQ.
karen
what commmish??? and if you are meaning PRCA, why would lve call for that???
Yep the PRCA Commish. If LVE had an offer on the table for over 14 months and there were no discussions....... THEN the FL offer comes along.
Even Martin said that the PRCA did NOT vote to leave Vegas but had rejected the initial offer. Meaning they were open to negotiation. Then the press releases started flying.
Think your odds at that poker game are better than average.
I do believe this is the longest lasting thread ever.....it is the most well spoken and educated as well, just throwing that out there. Of course, I still want in on that Vegas trip
Posted 2013-12-19 12:16 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577 Location: Prosser, WA
jojammer - 2013-12-18 6:35 PM
How in the world is Vegas going to put on a bigger better event than the NFR, when the NFR will have more seats, better arena, more $ in the round, but Vegas won't spend any more $ ? That makes no sense.
Just because they won't hand it over to the PRCA doesn't mean they won't hold a bigger/more added money event.
Posted 2013-12-19 6:23 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
To the Left
Posts: 1865 Location: Florida
If you heard the local Orlando news, you would think that the move is a done deal. The Orange County commission voted on a Sunday to build the new arena. I wonder if they are just jumping the gun, or are the negotiations further along that we know?
Posted 2013-12-19 7:26 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Location: Texas
I have no doubt that Vegas can together another big rodeo with a ton of money to be won. I personally believe that they are over shooting their hand though as far as thinking that it will bring in the same type of crowds that the NFR brings. I think Houston is a prime example, yes they do great, but they do great because of the concerts. How many people plan a yearly vacation to go watch Houston? And if you look at the PBR finals in Vegas, and they have a huge following, they cut the seating down to 15,000 vs 25,000. And if you look at the daily revenue brought into Vegas during the PBR finals vs the daily revenue during the NFR, there is a significant difference. Will Vegas do ok with a different rodeo, yes, will it do as great as they do during the NFR, I personally think it won't even be close
Posted 2013-12-19 7:51 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304 Location: Texas
Had to come back and say really quick that Rodeo Houston was the 8th most "checked-in" place for the year on Facebook. Disneyworld was #1. Rodeo Houston lasts for 3 weeks and Disneyworld is open 365 (4?) days a year. Rodeo can certainly survive outside of Vegas. It just has to be done properly.
Posted 2013-12-19 10:24 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Regular
Posts: 90
God Is My Light - 2013-12-18 11:43 PM
I do believe this is the longest lasting thread ever.....it is the most well spoken and educated as well, just throwing that out there. Of course, I still want in on that Vegas trip
Naw, back in the day, we had a thread about TP that I believe went to almost 100 pages? Or the ones about Pineapple? IDK, but this at 18 pages isnt' even close yet.
Posted 2013-12-19 10:59 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791 Location: The Oklahoma plains.
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-19 7:51 AM Had to come back and say really quick that Rodeo Houston was the 8th most "checked-in" place for the year on Facebook. Disneyworld was #1. Rodeo Houston lasts for 3 weeks and Disneyworld is open 365 (4?) days a year. Rodeo can certainly survive outside of Vegas. It just has to be done properly.
EnterUp - 2013-12-19 7:26 AM I have no doubt that Vegas can together another big rodeo with a ton of money to be won. I personally believe that they are over shooting their hand though as far as thinking that it will bring in the same type of crowds that the NFR brings. I think Houston is a prime example, yes they do great, but they do great because of the concerts. How many people plan a yearly vacation to go watch Houston? And if you look at the PBR finals in Vegas, and they have a huge following, they cut the seating down to 15,000 vs 25,000. And if you look at the daily revenue brought into Vegas during the PBR finals vs the daily revenue during the NFR, there is a significant difference. Will Vegas do ok with a different rodeo, yes, will it do as great as they do during the NFR, I personally think it won't even be close
If they had the same convention, I would be there! I've been once, loved the shopping and atmosphere, liked the rodeo. I'd honestly rather watch it in one of the casinos.
I don't think there is going to be too much talk until that 90 day window is gone. Then announcements will come...
eta: One thing that everyone says is a lot of what brings people to Houston is the entertainment. Well if that is one of the pieces of the puzzle that LVE needs, I am pretty sure they are well set. Shall we go over the list of singers and what not who are either housing stays there right now or who come there all of the time?
Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know...
Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over?
This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in?
I don't know either, but I'm guessing FL is well aware of the expectations. I think they will make sure the entertainment is there, the shopping is there. I just think they will understand that the actual perf isn't the only attraction and rise to it.
Most to to Rodeo Houston for the entertainment. There is shopping, not on the scale of Vegas. There is also breed horse shows. And cattle shows going on at the same time. not to forget the carnival/rides and the local eateries with their feasts.
Running Roan - 2013-12-19 12:03 PM Has anyone seen any legit updates on this lately? Or is the PRCA still awaiting a counter offer from LVE?
i thought the PRCA suggested that they were presenting a counter offer to LVE???
Or that could be too....It's really hard to find legit info on this subject. First I found that they only had 48 hours to decide, now I see they have 90 days. Bah...I don't know.
jojammer - 2013-12-19 12:14 PM Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know... Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over? This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in? I don't know either, but I'm guessing FL is well aware of the expectations. I think they will make sure the entertainment is there, the shopping is there. I just think they will understand that the actual perf isn't the only attraction and rise to it.
Florida might have a hard time putting together the same shopping experience fans have enjoyed in Vegas. I talked to quite a few other fellow NFR vendors last week and a few flat out said they won't go to Florida. A few said they'd sit it out a few years to see what kind of crowd FL draws. Nobody said they'd go to FL for sure. The Boot Barns and Sheplers of the world will follow the NFR wherever it goes, but the smaller businesses selling unique stuff that you don't see everywhere are on the fence about what to do.
roxieannie - 2013-12-19 12:16 PM Most to to Rodeo Houston for the entertainment. There is shopping, not on the scale of Vegas. There is also breed horse shows. And cattle shows going on at the same time. not to forget the carnival/rides and the local eateries with their feasts.
Yeah, that's all also known as economic impact which is what these other towns are going for when they're throwing all this money at the PRCA.
jojammer - 2013-12-19 12:14 PM Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know... Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over? This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in? I don't know either, but I'm guessing FL is well aware of the expectations. I think they will make sure the entertainment is there, the shopping is there. I just think they will understand that the actual perf isn't the only attraction and rise to it.
Florida might have a hard time putting together the same shopping experience fans have enjoyed in Vegas. I talked to quite a few other fellow NFR vendors last week and a few flat out said they won't go to Florida. A few said they'd sit it out a few years to see what kind of crowd FL draws. Nobody said they'd go to FL for sure. The Boot Barns and Sheplers of the world will follow the NFR wherever it goes, but the smaller businesses selling unique stuff that you don't see everywhere are on the fence about what to do.
My daughter and I were talking along these lines yesterday. Heritage and Luans just for instance. That's a heck of a long haul. So IF Vegas does bring in some other type of rodeo finals I imagine they would stay there vs the long haul across country.
Just read a article in the review journal? Spelling out the offer from Florida In more detail. It is impressive to say the least. Maybe someone can link to it?
I am not a bar/club type of person but I know that Orange and Osceola counties have a ton of late night stuff, just no gambling. It is much more family oriented that Las Vegas, which I think is a good thing. But, hey, that's just me. I am not into gambling either but anyone who is can drive 45 minutes to Port Canaveral and and take a gambling cruise. They last a few hours.
jojammer - 2013-12-19 12:14 PM Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know... Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over? This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in? I don't know either, but I'm guessing FL is well aware of the expectations. I think they will make sure the entertainment is there, the shopping is there. I just think they will understand that the actual perf isn't the only attraction and rise to it.
Florida might have a hard time putting together the same shopping experience fans have enjoyed in Vegas. I talked to quite a few other fellow NFR vendors last week and a few flat out said they won't go to Florida. A few said they'd sit it out a few years to see what kind of crowd FL draws. Nobody said they'd go to FL for sure. The Boot Barns and Sheplers of the world will follow the NFR wherever it goes, but the smaller businesses selling unique stuff that you don't see everywhere are on the fence about what to do.
My daughter and I were talking along these lines yesterday. Heritage and Luans just for instance. That's a heck of a long haul. So IF Vegas does bring in some other type of rodeo finals I imagine they would stay there vs the long haul across country.
I am ignorant of Florida amenities, so maybe somebody can answer this question for me. Do they have the ability to provide the mass transit that LV provides? It take an astounding number of busses, shuttles, limos, cabs to provide the kind of transportation that is readily available in LV. Are hotels, shopping, convention sites, etc concentrated within a relatively small area like Vegas or is is going to take even more vehicles to shuttle amoung them?
jojammer - 2013-12-19 12:14 PM Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know... Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over? This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in? I don't know either, but I'm guessing FL is well aware of the expectations. I think they will make sure the entertainment is there, the shopping is there. I just think they will understand that the actual perf isn't the only attraction and rise to it.
Florida might have a hard time putting together the same shopping experience fans have enjoyed in Vegas. I talked to quite a few other fellow NFR vendors last week and a few flat out said they won't go to Florida. A few said they'd sit it out a few years to see what kind of crowd FL draws. Nobody said they'd go to FL for sure. The Boot Barns and Sheplers of the world will follow the NFR wherever it goes, but the smaller businesses selling unique stuff that you don't see everywhere are on the fence about what to do.
My daughter and I were talking along these lines yesterday. Heritage and Luans just for instance. That's a heck of a long haul. So IF Vegas does bring in some other type of rodeo finals I imagine they would stay there vs the long haul across country.
I am ignorant of Florida amenities, so maybe somebody can answer this question for me. Do they have the ability to provide the mass transit that LV provides? It take an astounding number of busses, shuttles, limos, cabs to provide the kind of transportation that is readily available in LV. Are hotels, shopping, convention sites, etc concentrated within a relatively small area like Vegas or is is going to take even more vehicles to shuttle amoung them?
No it is the pitts to move around Orlando. Everywhere is a turn pike. We hate everytime there is a cutting and we have to go through that town. I know there are cabs and city buses but you wouldn't catch me on a bus and not even your worst enemy. Nothing is central. The parks are far apart, the lines can take up to an hour to ride a ride, the food is sky high, etc. etc. Plus, extremely expensive to take your family.
Changes must happen, but I do not think FL is the answer for a location.
jojammer - 2013-12-19 12:14 PM Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know... Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over? This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in? I don't know either, but I'm guessing FL is well aware of the expectations. I think they will make sure the entertainment is there, the shopping is there. I just think they will understand that the actual perf isn't the only attraction and rise to it.
Florida might have a hard time putting together the same shopping experience fans have enjoyed in Vegas. I talked to quite a few other fellow NFR vendors last week and a few flat out said they won't go to Florida. A few said they'd sit it out a few years to see what kind of crowd FL draws. Nobody said they'd go to FL for sure. The Boot Barns and Sheplers of the world will follow the NFR wherever it goes, but the smaller businesses selling unique stuff that you don't see everywhere are on the fence about what to do.
My daughter and I were talking along these lines yesterday. Heritage and Luans just for instance. That's a heck of a long haul. So IF Vegas does bring in some other type of rodeo finals I imagine they would stay there vs the long haul across country.
I am ignorant of Florida amenities, so maybe somebody can answer this question for me. Do they have the ability to provide the mass transit that LV provides? It take an astounding number of busses, shuttles, limos, cabs to provide the kind of transportation that is readily available in LV. Are hotels, shopping, convention sites, etc concentrated within a relatively small area like Vegas or is is going to take even more vehicles to shuttle amoung them?
No it is the pitts to move around Orlando. Everywhere is a turn pike. We hate everytime there is a cutting and we have to go through that town. I know there are cabs and city buses but you wouldn't catch me on a bus and not even your worst enemy. Nothing is central. The parks are far apart, the lines can take up to an hour to ride a ride, the food is sky high, etc. etc. Plus, extremely expensive to take your family.
Changes must happen, but I do not think FL is the answer for a location.
Honestly, Vegas could probably put on their own show a la RodeoHouston and do just fine. They've already got the entertainment side pretty much covered and rodeo fans are already used to going there.
jojammer - 2013-12-19 12:14 PM Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know... Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over? This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in? I don't know either, but I'm guessing FL is well aware of the expectations. I think they will make sure the entertainment is there, the shopping is there. I just think they will understand that the actual perf isn't the only attraction and rise to it.
Florida might have a hard time putting together the same shopping experience fans have enjoyed in Vegas. I talked to quite a few other fellow NFR vendors last week and a few flat out said they won't go to Florida. A few said they'd sit it out a few years to see what kind of crowd FL draws. Nobody said they'd go to FL for sure. The Boot Barns and Sheplers of the world will follow the NFR wherever it goes, but the smaller businesses selling unique stuff that you don't see everywhere are on the fence about what to do.
My daughter and I were talking along these lines yesterday. Heritage and Luans just for instance. That's a heck of a long haul. So IF Vegas does bring in some other type of rodeo finals I imagine they would stay there vs the long haul across country.
I am ignorant of Florida amenities, so maybe somebody can answer this question for me. Do they have the ability to provide the mass transit that LV provides? It take an astounding number of busses, shuttles, limos, cabs to provide the kind of transportation that is readily available in LV. Are hotels, shopping, convention sites, etc concentrated within a relatively small area like Vegas or is is going to take even more vehicles to shuttle amoung them?
No it is the pitts to move around Orlando. Everywhere is a turn pike. We hate everytime there is a cutting and we have to go through that town. I know there are cabs and city buses but you wouldn't catch me on a bus and not even your worst enemy. Nothing is central. The parks are far apart, the lines can take up to an hour to ride a ride, the food is sky high, etc. etc. Plus, extremely expensive to take your family.
Changes must happen, but I do not think FL is the answer for a location.
Honestly, Vegas could probably put on their own show a la RodeoHouston and do just fine. They've already got the entertainment side pretty much covered and rodeo fans are already used to going there.
I agree. I think they have all the recources to put on a heck of a show and if they do something like the American where you can win a million....well, it's game on!
jojammer - 2013-12-19 12:14 PM Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know... Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over? This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in? I don't know either, but I'm guessing FL is well aware of the expectations. I think they will make sure the entertainment is there, the shopping is there. I just think they will understand that the actual perf isn't the only attraction and rise to it.
Florida might have a hard time putting together the same shopping experience fans have enjoyed in Vegas. I talked to quite a few other fellow NFR vendors last week and a few flat out said they won't go to Florida. A few said they'd sit it out a few years to see what kind of crowd FL draws. Nobody said they'd go to FL for sure. The Boot Barns and Sheplers of the world will follow the NFR wherever it goes, but the smaller businesses selling unique stuff that you don't see everywhere are on the fence about what to do.
My daughter and I were talking along these lines yesterday. Heritage and Luans just for instance. That's a heck of a long haul. So IF Vegas does bring in some other type of rodeo finals I imagine they would stay there vs the long haul across country.
I am ignorant of Florida amenities, so maybe somebody can answer this question for me. Do they have the ability to provide the mass transit that LV provides? It take an astounding number of busses, shuttles, limos, cabs to provide the kind of transportation that is readily available in LV. Are hotels, shopping, convention sites, etc concentrated within a relatively small area like Vegas or is is going to take even more vehicles to shuttle amoung them?
No it is the pitts to move around Orlando. Everywhere is a turn pike. We hate everytime there is a cutting and we have to go through that town. I know there are cabs and city buses but you wouldn't catch me on a bus and not even your worst enemy. Nothing is central. The parks are far apart, the lines can take up to an hour to ride a ride, the food is sky high, etc. etc. Plus, extremely expensive to take your family.
Changes must happen, but I do not think FL is the answer for a location.
Honestly, Vegas could probably put on their own show a la RodeoHouston and do just fine. They've already got the entertainment side pretty much covered and rodeo fans are already used to going there.
I agree. I think they have all the recources to put on a heck of a show and if they do something like the American where you can win a million....well, it's game on!
Heck yeah! Replace the NFR with another rodeo with a huge payout, add in a big barrel race and maybe a ranch rodeo or a horse show or something else to go along with South Point's roping to bring in more competitors. Shoot, they could have stuff going on all day every day at South Point, MGM's new arena they're building and the T&M. Then get some big name country artists in for concerts. They can call it RodeoVegas. Who wouldn't want to go to that?
Bibliafarm - 2013-12-19 5:19 PM NFR .. why do people give up on the NFR so easily..
I dont think anybody is giving up on the NFR. I'm just saying if LVE and the PRCA dont come to an agreement, and going by what LVE has said, yes I believe they could pull off their own venue and make a big bang. It will have to be big $$$ though and alot of flash if they are going to compete with the NFR.
jojammer - 2013-12-19 12:14 PM Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know... Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over? This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in? I don't know either, but I'm guessing FL is well aware of the expectations. I think they will make sure the entertainment is there, the shopping is there. I just think they will understand that the actual perf isn't the only attraction and rise to it.
Florida might have a hard time putting together the same shopping experience fans have enjoyed in Vegas. I talked to quite a few other fellow NFR vendors last week and a few flat out said they won't go to Florida. A few said they'd sit it out a few years to see what kind of crowd FL draws. Nobody said they'd go to FL for sure. The Boot Barns and Sheplers of the world will follow the NFR wherever it goes, but the smaller businesses selling unique stuff that you don't see everywhere are on the fence about what to do.
My daughter and I were talking along these lines yesterday. Heritage and Luans just for instance. That's a heck of a long haul. So IF Vegas does bring in some other type of rodeo finals I imagine they would stay there vs the long haul across country.
I am ignorant of Florida amenities, so maybe somebody can answer this question for me. Do they have the ability to provide the mass transit that LV provides? It take an astounding number of busses, shuttles, limos, cabs to provide the kind of transportation that is readily available in LV. Are hotels, shopping, convention sites, etc concentrated within a relatively small area like Vegas or is is going to take even more vehicles to shuttle amoung them?
No it is the pitts to move around Orlando. Everywhere is a turn pike. We hate everytime there is a cutting and we have to go through that town. I know there are cabs and city buses but you wouldn't catch me on a bus and not even your worst enemy. Nothing is central. The parks are far apart, the lines can take up to an hour to ride a ride, the food is sky high, etc. etc. Plus, extremely expensive to take your family.
Changes must happen, but I do not think FL is the answer for a location.
Honestly, Vegas could probably put on their own show a la RodeoHouston and do just fine. They've already got the entertainment side pretty much covered and rodeo fans are already used to going there.
I agree. I think they have all the recources to put on a heck of a show and if they do something like the American where you can win a million....well, it's game on!
Heck yeah! Replace the NFR with another rodeo with a huge payout, add in a big barrel race and maybe a ranch rodeo or a horse show or something else to go along with South Point's roping to bring in more competitors. Shoot, they could have stuff going on all day every day at South Point, MGM's new arena they're building and the T&M. Then get some big name country artists in for concerts. They can call it RodeoVegas. Who wouldn't want to go to that?
Yep! I also believe half the venders that do the NFR shopping will opt to stay in Vegas.So they will still have the shopping also. Florida is a heck of a haul for many of them and the cost of going to Florida and staying there is just formidable for alot.
jojammer - 2013-12-19 12:14 PM Ok I'm not asking to be snarky or fight. I'm asking because I don't know... Does Florida have what it takes to draw the average joe fans to the rodeo, should it move there? Let's face it, the rodeo is only a couple hours each night. But in Vegas, the party ends only when you turn in for the night. The town doesn't roll up and if you're bored in Vegas, you just need to talk a block to find something to do. There's the spas, the shopping, the gambling, the clubs, the off strip attractions and activities. Does anywhere else that May have a dog in the "new NFR" fight have the ability to keep all these people busy when the rodeo is over? This is the question I would think the PRCA board would be considering. Is the NFR itself, just the rodeo, big enough to keep the fan base or if needed, draw new fans in? I don't know either, but I'm guessing FL is well aware of the expectations. I think they will make sure the entertainment is there, the shopping is there. I just think they will understand that the actual perf isn't the only attraction and rise to it.
Florida might have a hard time putting together the same shopping experience fans have enjoyed in Vegas. I talked to quite a few other fellow NFR vendors last week and a few flat out said they won't go to Florida. A few said they'd sit it out a few years to see what kind of crowd FL draws. Nobody said they'd go to FL for sure. The Boot Barns and Sheplers of the world will follow the NFR wherever it goes, but the smaller businesses selling unique stuff that you don't see everywhere are on the fence about what to do.
My daughter and I were talking along these lines yesterday. Heritage and Luans just for instance. That's a heck of a long haul. So IF Vegas does bring in some other type of rodeo finals I imagine they would stay there vs the long haul across country.
I am ignorant of Florida amenities, so maybe somebody can answer this question for me. Do they have the ability to provide the mass transit that LV provides? It take an astounding number of busses, shuttles, limos, cabs to provide the kind of transportation that is readily available in LV. Are hotels, shopping, convention sites, etc concentrated within a relatively small area like Vegas or is is going to take even more vehicles to shuttle amoung them?
No it is the pitts to move around Orlando. Everywhere is a turn pike. We hate everytime there is a cutting and we have to go through that town. I know there are cabs and city buses but you wouldn't catch me on a bus and not even your worst enemy. Nothing is central. The parks are far apart, the lines can take up to an hour to ride a ride, the food is sky high, etc. etc. Plus, extremely expensive to take your family.
Changes must happen, but I do not think FL is the answer for a location.
Honestly, Vegas could probably put on their own show a la RodeoHouston and do just fine. They've already got the entertainment side pretty much covered and rodeo fans are already used to going there.
I agree. I think they have all the recources to put on a heck of a show and if they do something like the American where you can win a million....well, it's game on!
Heck yeah! Replace the NFR with another rodeo with a huge payout, add in a big barrel race and maybe a ranch rodeo or a horse show or something else to go along with South Point's roping to bring in more competitors. Shoot, they could have stuff going on all day every day at South Point, MGM's new arena they're building and the T&M. Then get some big name country artists in for concerts. They can call it RodeoVegas. Who wouldn't want to go to that?
Yep!
I also believe half the venders that do the NFR shopping will opt to stay in Vegas.So they will still have the shopping also. Florida is a heck of a haul for many of them and the cost of going to Florida and staying there is just formidable for alot.
So if it moves to Orlando I wonder if it will still be the WRANGLER NFR or if it will become A DISNEY NFR? LOL..... The Disney National Finals......hmm...
I think competion is a good thing, let the cities compete for our money. Just like nbha did not listen for a long time at augusta and after the last year they had finals in august where is rained all week everyone was complaining and ibra finals was growing the writing was on the walls, they made a change might i say for the better. So let the cities open the pocket books see what happens change wont hurt that really is a small pen and the new place could have a better setup and maybe more money and if it where on the east coast it could be a positive for rodeo, that there is not much of. As much as the rodeo girls make and there cost are awlful as well maybe a different situation will make the money grow. Let us not live in the past, look forward to see if we can inprove. As we would not go to a big barrel race that was not put on well, rodeo should be the same way.
The National Finals Rodeo still means something to most of the contestants. I do not see them "walking" from the NFR to go to a new venue. Besides that there is at least 1 city in the US willing to put up a lot of money to put the rodeo on. If Florida has it....the contestants will go and the spectators will follow. I've never been to the NFR. Its on my bucket list. I'm trying to finish raising my children so I can start checking off my list. I hate big cities and lots of people so unless the NFR comes to Brentford, South Dakota I'm thinking its not going to matter if its in Vegas or Orlando. Either way I'll have to dull my senses.
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-19 8:33 PM The National Finals Rodeo still means something to most of the contestants. I do not see them "walking" from the NFR to go to a new venue. Besides that there is at least 1 city in the US willing to put up a lot of money to put the rodeo on. If Florida has it....the contestants will go and the spectators will follow.
I've never been to the NFR. Its on my bucket list. I'm trying to finish raising my children so I can start checking off my list. I hate big cities and lots of people so unless the NFR comes to Brentford, South Dakota I'm thinking its not going to matter if its in Vegas or Orlando. Either way I'll have to dull my senses.
I dont think anybody is thinking any of the top 15 would walk from the NFR. BUT, if you were 16th on down and had another venue you could enter for big bucks you darn sure would and there are ALOT of contestants not in the top 15.
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-19 8:33 PM The National Finals Rodeo still means something to most of the contestants. I do not see them "walking" from the NFR to go to a new venue. Besides that there is at least 1 city in the US willing to put up a lot of money to put the rodeo on. If Florida has it....the contestants will go and the spectators will follow.
I've never been to the NFR. Its on my bucket list. I'm trying to finish raising my children so I can start checking off my list. I hate big cities and lots of people so unless the NFR comes to Brentford, South Dakota I'm thinking its not going to matter if its in Vegas or Orlando. Either way I'll have to dull my senses.
I dont think anybody is thinking any of the top 15 would walk from the NFR. BUT, if you were 16th on down and had another venue you could enter for big bucks you darn sure would and there are ALOT of contestants not in the top 15.
Exactly! I at first was upset but then thought...how awesome would that be for those just out of the top 15, plus many others that have outstanding derby horses etc, You will never break the NFR, The top 15 will go. The fans will go but then there will be a big show on both the east and west coast. PRCA members get more $. Sounds like a win win situation,
Posted 2013-12-20 8:51 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712 Location: That part of Texas
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-19 8:51 PM
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-19 8:33 PM The National Finals Rodeo still means something to most of the contestants. I do not see them "walking" from the NFR to go to a new venue. Besides that there is at least 1 city in the US willing to put up a lot of money to put the rodeo on. If Florida has it....the contestants will go and the spectators will follow.
I've never been to the NFR. Its on my bucket list. I'm trying to finish raising my children so I can start checking off my list. I hate big cities and lots of people so unless the NFR comes to Brentford, South Dakota I'm thinking its not going to matter if its in Vegas or Orlando. Either way I'll have to dull my senses.
I dont think anybody is thinking any of the top 15 would walk from the NFR. BUT, if you were 16th on down and had another venue you could enter for big bucks you darn sure would and there are ALOT of contestants not in the top 15.
Just take a look at all the ropers in the WSTR finals at South Point. Those are some of the best of the best there that may not have the time and funds to go on the road like the NFR contestants do but dang they can rope. What I also like about watching that is you can see some of the top female ropers that can't compete in the PRCA. Same goes for Vegas putting on a rodeo that might allow the top male barrel racers to compete in a sport that they have been shut out in "the big top" so to speak.
Posted 2013-12-20 9:38 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Member
Posts: 33 Location: Florida
Im from Florida. Like 2hr from Silver Spurs. It would be cheaper for me to fly to Vegas and stay there than to either commute or to stay in a hotel in Kissimmee. There is absolutely NOTHING to do over there. Like people are going to want to go to Disney all day then go to the NFR at 5. Same with going to the beach, they are going to have to drive AT LEAST an hour to get to Tampa to a beach. Not to mention who knows where all the Cowboy Christmas stuff would be set up/spread out... Night life afterwards, I guess the only place that would be reasonably close is Downtown Disney? Anyways, overall, it would be super boring and most likely lose a lot of spectators in Florida. I really hope they leave it in Vegas.
horselover_jenn - 2013-12-20 9:38 AM Im from Florida. Like 2hr from Silver Spurs. It would be cheaper for me to fly to Vegas and stay there than to either commute or to stay in a hotel in Kissimmee. There is absolutely NOTHING to do over there. Like people are going to want to go to Disney all day then go to the NFR at 5. Same with going to the beach, they are going to have to drive AT LEAST an hour to get to Tampa to a beach. Not to mention who knows where all the Cowboy Christmas stuff would be set up/spread out... Night life afterwards, I guess the only place that would be reasonably close is Downtown Disney? Anyways, overall, it would be super boring and most likely lose a lot of spectators in Florida. I really hope they leave it in Vegas.
sounds like a great time.........
it's interesting to now see some of the NFR contestants that were so gung ho the day after with their FB posts, now backpeddling as well....
horselover_jenn - 2013-12-20 9:38 AM Im from Florida. Like 2hr from Silver Spurs. It would be cheaper for me to fly to Vegas and stay there than to either commute or to stay in a hotel in Kissimmee. There is absolutely NOTHING to do over there. Like people are going to want to go to Disney all day then go to the NFR at 5. Same with going to the beach, they are going to have to drive AT LEAST an hour to get to Tampa to a beach. Not to mention who knows where all the Cowboy Christmas stuff would be set up/spread out... Night life afterwards, I guess the only place that would be reasonably close is Downtown Disney? Anyways, overall, it would be super boring and most likely lose a lot of spectators in Florida. I really hope they leave it in Vegas.
sounds like a great time.........
it's interesting to now see some of the NFR contestants that were so gung ho the day after with their FB posts, now backpeddling as well....
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-19 8:33 PM The National Finals Rodeo still means something to most of the contestants. I do not see them "walking" from the NFR to go to a new venue. Besides that there is at least 1 city in the US willing to put up a lot of money to put the rodeo on. If Florida has it....the contestants will go and the spectators will follow.
I've never been to the NFR. Its on my bucket list. I'm trying to finish raising my children so I can start checking off my list. I hate big cities and lots of people so unless the NFR comes to Brentford, South Dakota I'm thinking its not going to matter if its in Vegas or Orlando. Either way I'll have to dull my senses.
I dont think anybody is thinking any of the top 15 would walk from the NFR. BUT, if you were 16th on down and had another venue you could enter for big bucks you darn sure would and there are ALOT of contestants not in the top 15.
Just take a look at all the ropers in the WSTR finals at South Point. Those are some of the best of the best there that may not have the time and funds to go on the road like the NFR contestants do but dang they can rope. What I also like about watching that is you can see some of the top female ropers that can't compete in the PRCA. Same goes for Vegas putting on a rodeo that might allow the top male barrel racers to compete in a sport that they have been shut out in "the big top" so to speak.
And the ropers there had huge expenses to enter it and the total pay off was not far behind the NFR team roping.
horselover_jenn - 2013-12-20 9:38 AM Im from Florida. Like 2hr from Silver Spurs. It would be cheaper for me to fly to Vegas and stay there than to either commute or to stay in a hotel in Kissimmee. There is absolutely NOTHING to do over there. Like people are going to want to go to Disney all day then go to the NFR at 5. Same with going to the beach, they are going to have to drive AT LEAST an hour to get to Tampa to a beach. Not to mention who knows where all the Cowboy Christmas stuff would be set up/spread out... Night life afterwards, I guess the only place that would be reasonably close is Downtown Disney? Anyways, overall, it would be super boring and most likely lose a lot of spectators in Florida. I really hope they leave it in Vegas.
sounds like a great time.........
it's interesting to now see some of the NFR contestants that were so gung ho the day after with their FB posts, now backpeddling as well....
I totally agree! Hoping they work it out with LV!
I hope PRCA and LVE hugs it out too. Everybody keeps saying the the PRCA doesn't need Vegas, buuuut if they want to keep the fans coming to the NFR....they kinda do.
Matt, I agree 100% with raising the money for the contestants, and rodeo personell, but I also know FL very well, I know the tourism industry there and I know what FL will do when they are not bringing in the revinue to cover what they promise...It sounds great, but there is a much bigger picture the Osceola County is holding back, if you need proof, ask any biker that has traveled to Daytona for they 10 day event there...they have all but chased them away because the money is not there for them like it once was....I just hope the PRCA weighs all options, and not just paper from 1 city making a promise it doesnt actually know it will keep!
Posted 2013-12-21 8:07 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-20 10:45 PM
Found this comment. Has anyone addressed it yet?
Matt, I agree 100% with raising the money for the contestants, and rodeo personell, but I also know FL very well, I know the tourism industry there and I know what FL will do when they are not bringing in the revinue to cover what they promise...It sounds great, but there is a much bigger picture the Osceola County is holding back, if you need proof, ask any biker that has traveled to Daytona for they 10 day event there...they have all but chased them away because the money is not there for them like it once was....I just hope the PRCA weighs all options, and not just paper from 1 city making a promise it doesnt actually know it will keep!
I will address it. I'm not a lawyer. But I'm assuming if they sign the contract with the prca for 10 years they will be legally obligated to provide the money they have promised. And my understanding is that money will come from ticket sales and tourism taxes. So I can't really see them defaulting on the agreement, being as I would imagine that they bring in some unbelievable tourism tax revenue, because of Disney World etc. Now obviously after 10 years they may not feel it was advantageous enough for their local economy, and terminate the contract at that time.
But having said all this if the NFR makes the move the money is pretty much guarenteed to be there at least for 10 years.
Posted 2013-12-21 8:16 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Tried and True
Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-21 8:07 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-20 10:45 PM Found this comment. Has anyone addressed it yet?
Matt, I agree 100% with raising the money for the contestants, and rodeo personell, but I also know FL very well, I know the tourism industry there and I know what FL will do when they are not bringing in the revinue to cover what they promise...It sounds great, but there is a much bigger picture the Osceola County is holding back, if you need proof, ask any biker that has traveled to Daytona for they 10 day event there...they have all but chased them away because the money is not there for them like it once was....I just hope the PRCA weighs all options, and not just paper from 1 city making a promise it doesnt actually know it will keep!
I will address it. I'm not a lawyer. But I'm assuming if they sign the contract with the prca for 10 years they will be legally obligated to provide the money they have promised. And my understanding is that money will come from ticket sales and tourism taxes. So I can't really see them defaulting on the agreement, being as I would imagine that they bring in some unbelievable tourism tax revenue, because of Disney World etc. Now obviously after 10 years they may not feel it was advantageous enough for their local economy, and terminate the contract at that time. But having said all this if the NFR makes the move the money is pretty much guarenteed to be there at least for 10 years.
The contractual money may be there, but when Florida over prices the average fan out, the fans wont be there. The most expensive trip I ever took was to Florida. Just sayin.
Posted 2013-12-21 8:24 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-21 8:16 AM
yellowhorse1 - 2013-12-21 8:07 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-20 10:45 PM Found this comment. Has anyone addressed it yet?
Matt, I agree 100% with raising the money for the contestants, and rodeo personell, but I also know FL very well, I know the tourism industry there and I know what FL will do when they are not bringing in the revinue to cover what they promise...It sounds great, but there is a much bigger picture the Osceola County is holding back, if you need proof, ask any biker that has traveled to Daytona for they 10 day event there...they have all but chased them away because the money is not there for them like it once was....I just hope the PRCA weighs all options, and not just paper from 1 city making a promise it doesnt actually know it will keep!
I will address it. I'm not a lawyer. But I'm assuming if they sign the contract with the prca for 10 years they will be legally obligated to provide the money they have promised. And my understanding is that money will come from ticket sales and tourism taxes. So I can't really see them defaulting on the agreement, being as I would imagine that they bring in some unbelievable tourism tax revenue, because of Disney World etc. Now obviously after 10 years they may not feel it was advantageous enough for their local economy, and terminate the contract at that time. But having said all this if the NFR makes the move the money is pretty much guarenteed to be there at least for 10 years.
The contractual money may be there, but when Florida over prices the average fan out, the fans wont be there. The most expensive trip I ever took was to Florida. Just sayin.
That is possible. But then I guess it would move again after 10 years unless they both agreed to nullify the contract.
From what I've read the prca wrote up a wish list and Osceola county pretty much agreed to all of it. So I really think the prca is holding alot more of the cards here than alot of people are assuming.
Posted 2013-12-21 10:17 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425 Location: Riding Crackhead.
dhdqhllc - 2013-12-20 12:18 PM
horselover_jenn - 2013-12-20 9:38 AM Im from Florida. Like 2hr from Silver Spurs. It would be cheaper for me to fly to Vegas and stay there than to either commute or to stay in a hotel in Kissimmee. There is absolutely NOTHING to do over there. Like people are going to want to go to Disney all day then go to the NFR at 5. Same with going to the beach, they are going to have to drive AT LEAST an hour to get to Tampa to a beach. Not to mention who knows where all the Cowboy Christmas stuff would be set up/spread out... Night life afterwards, I guess the only place that would be reasonably close is Downtown Disney? Anyways, overall, it would be super boring and most likely lose a lot of spectators in Florida. I really hope they leave it in Vegas.
sounds like a great time.........
it's interesting to now see some of the NFR contestants that were so gung ho the day after with their FB posts, now backpeddling as well....
Since I'm not on FB can anyone tell me what is being said and by whom?
Bibliafarm - 2013-12-21 9:46 AM I can vouch for it being expensive.. at theme parks a regular size drink is 5.oo and at nfl games they are 8 bucks. lol roughly
a bottled water 6 bucks. pretty astounding is that normal everywhere?
Sounds about right.
The huge difference would be in the cost of hotels. You can find some pretty cheap lodging in Vegas along with reasobable air fare and great last minute air/hotel deals. That is not going to happen in Florida.
Airline prices will be the most expensive I think, but there are beautiful rooms all over Orlando area from $45 a night to $4K a night. I'm not sure what a room costs in Vegas anymore. Are they as cheap as $45? First week of December, rates are up but not as high as Summer, or as high as Spring.
Right now, what does a ticket to the NFR cost per night? And what does a room cost? I have never been to the NFR, but have been to Vegas, it's been a while though.
Airline prices will be the most expensive I think, but there are beautiful rooms all over Orlando area from $45 a night to $4K a night. I'm not sure what a room costs in Vegas anymore. Are they as cheap as $45? First week of December, rates are up but not as high as Summer, or as high as Spring.
What do rooms cost in Vegas?
Our room on the weekdays was $29/night plus a $15 resort fee during the NFR. I would think NFR tickets would be about the same? We always drive down and try not to eat on the strip. Prices are pretty much the same off the strip as they are around home.
Swannranch - 2013-12-21 5:10 PM Airline prices will be the most expensive I think, but there are beautiful rooms all over Orlando area from $45 a night to $4K a night. I'm not sure what a room costs in Vegas anymore. Are they as cheap as $45? First week of December, rates are up but not as high as Summer, or as high as Spring.
What do rooms cost in Vegas?
Our room on the weekdays was $29/night plus a $15 resort fee during the NFR. I would think NFR tickets would be about the same? We always drive down and try not to eat on the strip. Prices are pretty much the same off the strip as they are around home.
Someone posted earlier on this thread they paid $1200 for 2 people for 2 nights. But I don't know if the seats are different prices in different places, so I'm not sure where that price comes in. So that would have been $300 per person. Anyone else know?
Swannranch - 2013-12-21 5:10 PM Airline prices will be the most expensive I think, but there are beautiful rooms all over Orlando area from $45 a night to $4K a night. I'm not sure what a room costs in Vegas anymore. Are they as cheap as $45? First week of December, rates are up but not as high as Summer, or as high as Spring.
What do rooms cost in Vegas?
Our room on the weekdays was $29/night plus a $15 resort fee during the NFR. I would think NFR tickets would be about the same? We always drive down and try not to eat on the strip. Prices are pretty much the same off the strip as they are around home.
Someone posted earlier on this thread they paid $1200 for 2 people for 2 nights. But I don't know if the seats are different prices in different places, so I'm not sure where that price comes in. So that would have been $300 per person. Anyone else know?
That varies greatly. The face value of plaza seats are $75 I believe and I think the balcony seats are close to $50 face value. But since you end up buying your tickets 2nd or 3rd hand the price varies a lot. I think this happens everywhere for many events. I would guess the seats in Orlando would at least be the same because the venue and the scalpers know they can get it.I found seats in the balcony row M for $60 and row S for $120. We got one night of Plaza seats for $75 and another for $200. It's all over the map.
Posted 2013-12-22 11:18 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427 Location: South Central Florida
Okay, so seat pricing will vary, but it does now. I don't think it will change that much (scalpers not counted) Room rates will not change that much, but possibly up slightly. $70 and $80 rooms are everywhere even Disney.
Airline prices will go up for those out west, but come down for those in the east...just looked at air fares and airline pricing all depends on where your coming from. Found some cheep seats to Vegas from Florida...Found some cheep seats from Colorado to Florida...just checked random prices for December.
Orlando has easily enough room for Cowboy Christmas.
The layout in Florida is far bigger and you can't really walk from venue to venue.
Both have tons of things to do. Someone said nothing to do in Kissimmee besides Disney...really confussed me. We go up and speend weekends and never go to the parks. Just shop, shows, International Drive.
I don't really care where it goes. In my stomach, I kind of wish it would stay in Vegas, but Florida is a viable alternative.
What I don't understand is that if Vegas is going to put on an ever bigger better rodeo...why not just put that money into the one they already have?
I do like good competition though and the more the merrier.
Posted 2013-12-22 11:32 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552 Location: sunny california
I think checking prices for december in florida might not really reflect what the pricing will be after the rodeo is in town. I know those 10 days will bring price increases as demand goes up. flights will go up some as well.
Posted 2013-12-22 11:49 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577 Location: Prosser, WA
Swannranch - 2013-12-22 9:18 AM
Okay, so seat pricing will vary, but it does now. I don't think it will change that much (scalpers not counted) Room rates will not change that much, but possibly up slightly. $70 and $80 rooms are everywhere even Disney.
Airline prices will go up for those out west, but come down for those in the east...just looked at air fares and airline pricing all depends on where your coming from. Found some cheep seats to Vegas from Florida...Found some cheep seats from Colorado to Florida...just checked random prices for December.
Orlando has easily enough room for Cowboy Christmas.
The layout in Florida is far bigger and you can't really walk from venue to venue.
Both have tons of things to do. Someone said nothing to do in Kissimmee besides Disney...really confussed me. We go up and speend weekends and never go to the parks. Just shop, shows, International Drive.
I don't really care where it goes. In my stomach, I kind of wish it would stay in Vegas, but Florida is a viable alternative.
What I don't understand is that if Vegas is going to put on an ever bigger better rodeo...why not just put that money into the one they already have?
I do like good competition though and the more the merrier.
Maybe they just don't want to deal with the PRCA anymore? I have no idea but where LVE provides most the money maybe they just want to eliminate the middle man? Just speculation on my part.
Lobo - 2013-12-22 4:32 PM Perhaps the two who paid $1200 for two nights in Las Vegas got into the $15 nut's and took the $35 sucker that was so conviently put out!
It depends on your seats and hotels. My brother took his fiance this year. They sat 9 rows up from the 3rd barrel. $400 each. Stayed at the Belagio ? Spelling He said if he's going to go to the NFR he wants to be able to see what the heck is going on instead of getting a nosebleed.
Posts: 2758 Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com!
I think was this boils down to, to me, is that I would go to Vegas without having tickets to the NFR and be happy as a clam shopping, and watching the live feed at one of the casinos every night and would stay a few days. If it was in Orlando I wouldn't go unless I had rodeo tickets, which they aren't going to be adding that many and it will still probably have the same availablility issues, and I would not stay long. I LOVE Disney but to me that's a destination and vacation in itself. I wouldn't combine Disney World and the NFR. I hope they work this out and it remains in Vegas.
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-19 8:33 PM The National Finals Rodeo still means something to most of the contestants. I do not see them "walking" from the NFR to go to a new venue. Besides that there is at least 1 city in the US willing to put up a lot of money to put the rodeo on. If Florida has it....the contestants will go and the spectators will follow.
I've never been to the NFR. Its on my bucket list. I'm trying to finish raising my children so I can start checking off my list. I hate big cities and lots of people so unless the NFR comes to Brentford, South Dakota I'm thinking its not going to matter if its in Vegas or Orlando. Either way I'll have to dull my senses.
I dont think anybody is thinking any of the top 15 would walk from the NFR. BUT, if you were 16th on down and had another venue you could enter for big bucks you darn sure would and there are ALOT of contestants not in the top 15.
Just take a look at all the ropers in the WSTR finals at South Point. Those are some of the best of the best there that may not have the time and funds to go on the road like the NFR contestants do but dang they can rope. What I also like about watching that is you can see some of the top female ropers that can't compete in the PRCA. Same goes for Vegas putting on a rodeo that might allow the top male barrel racers to compete in a sport that they have been shut out in "the big top" so to speak.
And the ropers there had huge expenses to enter it and the total pay off was not far behind the NFR team roping.
Sorry ya'll but the highest number roping the WSTR does is a 13. When you consider that the triad numbering system goes up to a 9 for headers and a 10 for heelers......these guys are ammies. They will rarely enter an open roping, and if they do, it's darn sure not with their #13 partner. The WSTR was set up for the weekend warrior and businessmen, not professionals. There are some pretty handy guys there, but they are not on a level with the professionals.
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-19 8:33 PM The National Finals Rodeo still means something to most of the contestants. I do not see them "walking" from the NFR to go to a new venue. Besides that there is at least 1 city in the US willing to put up a lot of money to put the rodeo on. If Florida has it....the contestants will go and the spectators will follow.
I've never been to the NFR. Its on my bucket list. I'm trying to finish raising my children so I can start checking off my list. I hate big cities and lots of people so unless the NFR comes to Brentford, South Dakota I'm thinking its not going to matter if its in Vegas or Orlando. Either way I'll have to dull my senses.
I dont think anybody is thinking any of the top 15 would walk from the NFR. BUT, if you were 16th on down and had another venue you could enter for big bucks you darn sure would and there are ALOT of contestants not in the top 15.
Just take a look at all the ropers in the WSTR finals at South Point. Those are some of the best of the best there that may not have the time and funds to go on the road like the NFR contestants do but dang they can rope. What I also like about watching that is you can see some of the top female ropers that can't compete in the PRCA. Same goes for Vegas putting on a rodeo that might allow the top male barrel racers to compete in a sport that they have been shut out in "the big top" so to speak.
And the ropers there had huge expenses to enter it and the total pay off was not far behind the NFR team roping.
Sorry ya'll but the highest number roping the WSTR does is a 13. When you consider that the triad numbering system goes up to a 9 for headers and a 10 for heelers......these guys are ammies. They will rarely enter an open roping, and if they do, it's darn sure not with their #13 partner. The WSTR was set up for the weekend warrior and businessmen, not professionals. There are some pretty handy guys there, but they are not on a level with the professionals.
Sorry but I beg to differ -- many of them are professional ropers in their own right. They may not be professional NFR ropers but they aren't just some fly-by-night side-show act either. Most of the ones I know of are actual cowboys who make a living riding pastures and working cattle everyday. Many of them also compete in the local rodeo circuits and in some of the bigger ranch rodeos that pay out $50K to the top team.
Regardless, they rope well enough to put $5000 of their own money on the line plus expenses in getting out there. It's also just as exciting watching that top group go for all the money when the final round gets there. That's a pretty **** big pressure cooker right there. You can't miss or you're screwed completely and underdogs rule the roost sometimes.
Posted 2013-12-23 12:16 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427 Location: South Central Florida
Lobo - 2013-12-22 5:32 PM Perhaps the two who paid $1200 for two nights in Las Vegas got into the $15 nut's and took the $35 sucker that was so conviently put out!
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it was in this thread, if not this one than another one about the NFR. I have had friends pay in excess of $200 per seat...but I really have no idea where they bought them, or any details. I also know people that go but watch the rodeo from the casino's and restaruants...:) It will be exciting to watch and see what happens.
As far as pricing room rates now in Florida as opposed to rates in December...I live a couple of hours away and have been all different times of the year. I know it's hard to believe but they do have gigantic events in the area all the time. As big as the NFR? I don't know. However I think hotel rates can be effected no matter where it is. Someone posted they paid $29 plus a $15 extra charge because if was NFR week. So that's likely to happen no matter where it is.
Posted 2013-12-23 12:33 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Regular
Posts: 90
Swannranch - 2013-12-23 12:16 AM
Lobo - 2013-12-22 5:32 PM Perhaps the two who paid $1200 for two nights in Las Vegas got into the $15 nut's and took the $35 sucker that was so conviently put out!
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it was in this thread, if not this one than another one about the NFR. I have had friends pay in excess of $200 per seat...but I really have no idea where they bought them, or any details. I also know people that go but watch the rodeo from the casino's and restaruants...:) It will be exciting to watch and see what happens.
As far as pricing room rates now in Florida as opposed to rates in December...I live a couple of hours away and have been all different times of the year. I know it's hard to believe but they do have gigantic events in the area all the time. As big as the NFR? I don't know. However I think hotel rates can be effected no matter where it is. Someone posted they paid $29 plus a $15 extra charge because if was NFR week. So that's likely to happen no matter where it is.
The $15 was a resort fee that you pay regardless of local events. It's supposed to be for amenities like parking, the pool, etc. i$15 is common, not unique to the NFR timeframe.
Posted 2013-12-23 2:42 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
Ive posted before and I talked my Mom and Sister who both travel a lot for work. Florida is a place they frequent. Ive been there a few times and although I think we need to stand behind PRCA, I just dont think I will be as inclined to go to the NFR in florida. Many of the reasons have been listed... its much more expensive, its gonna be very difficult to get airfare with holidays/cold weather/etc; everything is much more spread out; night life is lacking...
My mom knows the area well and travels a lot to big conferences. They have the conference centers but it will not be the same close knit atmosphere as Vegas. I am not saying Vegas is the only place NFR can strive but I think the NFR will be much different. only time will tell if thats a good or bad thing.
At this time, I am not interested in going to the NFR in Florida... I want to go the NFR in vegas for both the rodeo and for a good time away from my responsibilities and where I can easily find things to do. I am not a gambler or big club goer but its definetely a fun place to spend time.
Posted 2013-12-23 7:57 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
10D Crack Champion
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-22 8:47 PM
Lobo - 2013-12-22 4:32 PM Perhaps the two who paid $1200 for two nights in Las Vegas got into the $15 nut's and took the $35 sucker that was so conviently put out!
It depends on your seats and hotels. My brother took his fiance this year. They sat 9 rows up from the 3rd barrel. $400 each. Stayed at the Belagio ? Spelling He said if he's going to go to the NFR he wants to be able to see what the heck is going on instead of getting a nosebleed.
CYA Ranch when did your brother buy the tickets and from where? Was it the original price through the original ticket venue or off of a site where someone was selling previous purchased tickets?
Posted 2013-12-23 8:29 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425 Location: Riding Crackhead.
sodapop - 2013-12-23 7:57 AM
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-22 8:47 PM
Lobo - 2013-12-22 4:32 PM Perhaps the two who paid $1200 for two nights in Las Vegas got into the $15 nut's and took the $35 sucker that was so conviently put out!
It depends on your seats and hotels. My brother took his fiance this year. They sat 9 rows up from the 3rd barrel. $400 each. Stayed at the Belagio ? Spelling He said if he's going to go to the NFR he wants to be able to see what the heck is going on instead of getting a nosebleed.
CYA Ranch when did your brother buy the tickets and from where? Was it the original price through the original ticket venue or off of a site where someone was selling previous purchased tickets?
I didn't ask him much about it. He told me about it at Thanksgiving but he'd had them for quite a while the way it sounded. He was rattling off what his airline tickets were (next to nothing), the rodeo tickets and the hotel. I'll have to ask him on Wednesday where he gets his tickets.
Posted 2013-12-23 10:47 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305 Location: Tulsa, Ok
stayceem - 2013-12-23 2:42 AM Ive posted before and I talked my Mom and Sister who both travel a lot for work. Florida is a place they frequent. Ive been there a few times and although I think we need to stand behind PRCA, I just dont think I will be as inclined to go to the NFR in florida. Many of the reasons have been listed... its much more expensive, its gonna be very difficult to get airfare with holidays/cold weather/etc; everything is much more spread out; night life is lacking... My mom knows the area well and travels a lot to big conferences. They have the conference centers but it will not be the same close knit atmosphere as Vegas. I am not saying Vegas is the only place NFR can strive but I think the NFR will be much different. only time will tell if thats a good or bad thing. At this time, I am not interested in going to the NFR in Florida... I want to go the NFR in vegas for both the rodeo and for a good time away from my responsibilities and where I can easily find things to do. I am not a gambler or big club goer but its definetely a fun place to spend time.
This pretty much sums up my feelings on the venue change.
I clearly remember what the NFR looked like before it went to Vegas. Vegas made the finals and the experience what it is today. Before that the entire experience was the rodeo -- and nothing else.
Posted 2013-12-23 11:11 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577 Location: Prosser, WA
sodapop - 2013-12-23 5:57 AM
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-22 8:47 PM
Lobo - 2013-12-22 4:32 PM Perhaps the two who paid $1200 for two nights in Las Vegas got into the $15 nut's and took the $35 sucker that was so conviently put out!
It depends on your seats and hotels. My brother took his fiance this year. They sat 9 rows up from the 3rd barrel. $400 each. Stayed at the Belagio ? Spelling He said if he's going to go to the NFR he wants to be able to see what the heck is going on instead of getting a nosebleed.
CYA Ranch when did your brother buy the tickets and from where? Was it the original price through the original ticket venue or off of a site where someone was selling previous purchased tickets?
That is 2nd or 3rd hand. Face value of those tickets is $75. I've gotten seats that were about 4 or 5 rows up before for face value from a friend. It really depends on who you know or how good you shop. ;)
Posted 2013-12-23 11:15 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
Just curious- I haven't read all 30 pages of this thread, so don't know if this was covered already or not- but I read somewhere that RFD-TV was on board with LVE more than the PRCA- do you think they are wanting the 10 days usually held by the PRCA in Vegas for their AMERICAN venue?
Posted 2013-12-23 11:16 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where
Red Raider - 2013-12-22 11:36 PM
MS2011 - 2013-12-22 10:36 PM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-20 12:24 PM
Red Raider - 2013-12-20 8:51 AM
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-19 8:51 PM
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-19 8:33 PM The National Finals Rodeo still means something to most of the contestants. I do not see them "walking" from the NFR to go to a new venue. Besides that there is at least 1 city in the US willing to put up a lot of money to put the rodeo on. If Florida has it....the contestants will go and the spectators will follow.
I've never been to the NFR. Its on my bucket list. I'm trying to finish raising my children so I can start checking off my list. I hate big cities and lots of people so unless the NFR comes to Brentford, South Dakota I'm thinking its not going to matter if its in Vegas or Orlando. Either way I'll have to dull my senses.
I dont think anybody is thinking any of the top 15 would walk from the NFR. BUT, if you were 16th on down and had another venue you could enter for big bucks you darn sure would and there are ALOT of contestants not in the top 15.
Just take a look at all the ropers in the WSTR finals at South Point. Those are some of the best of the best there that may not have the time and funds to go on the road like the NFR contestants do but dang they can rope. What I also like about watching that is you can see some of the top female ropers that can't compete in the PRCA. Same goes for Vegas putting on a rodeo that might allow the top male barrel racers to compete in a sport that they have been shut out in "the big top" so to speak.
And the ropers there had huge expenses to enter it and the total pay off was not far behind the NFR team roping.
Sorry ya'll but the highest number roping the WSTR does is a 13. When you consider that the triad numbering system goes up to a 9 for headers and a 10 for heelers......these guys are ammies. They will rarely enter an open roping, and if they do, it's darn sure not with their #13 partner. The WSTR was set up for the weekend warrior and businessmen, not professionals. There are some pretty handy guys there, but they are not on a level with the professionals.
Sorry but I beg to differ -- many of them are professional ropers in their own right. They may not be professional NFR ropers but they aren't just some fly-by-night side-show act either. Most of the ones I know of are actual cowboys who make a living riding pastures and working cattle everyday. Many of them also compete in the local rodeo circuits and in some of the bigger ranch rodeos that pay out $50K to the top team.
Regardless, they rope well enough to put $5000 of their own money on the line plus expenses in getting out there. It's also just as exciting watching that top group go for all the money when the final round gets there. That's a pretty **** big pressure cooker right there. You can't miss or you're screwed completely and underdogs rule the roost sometimes.
It's a cool set up...but if you miss one, you're not completely screwed. 1. Every team in the short round gets a check. Min of $6000 just for making it. 2. It's not your typical team roping progressive on 1. Everyone gets 3 full rounds. 3 chances to win great go round checks. 3. There is a consulation within each roping where the teams that don't make the short round get to drop their longest time. Consulation short go is run as it's own roping, it pays very well. 4. You have to win a spot in vegas unless you are a legacy member. This means that each team won a min of $5000 that they could use to enter.
It goes all the way down to a #9, that's pretty low on the handicap system. Even in the #13, if you're a #9 heeler (which is a professional)...you've got to rope with a #4 header(which is an upper level novice). Here's a link to number definitions. http://www.ustrc.com/Knowledge/Rulebook/
It's a much softer set up than any prca rodeo, you can't compare them. Look at the difference in barriers.
Posted 2013-12-23 11:39 AM Subject: RE: 2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864 Location: In the Hills of Texas
MS2011 - 2013-12-22 10:36 PM
Nevertooold - 2013-12-20 12:24 PM
Red Raider - 2013-12-20 8:51 AM
ThreeCorners - 2013-12-19 8:51 PM
CYA Ranch - 2013-12-19 8:33 PM The National Finals Rodeo still means something to most of the contestants. I do not see them "walking" from the NFR to go to a new venue. Besides that there is at least 1 city in the US willing to put up a lot of money to put the rodeo on. If Florida has it....the contestants will go and the spectators will follow.
I've never been to the NFR. Its on my bucket list. I'm trying to finish raising my children so I can start checking off my list. I hate big cities and lots of people so unless the NFR comes to Brentford, South Dakota I'm thinking its not going to matter if its in Vegas or Orlando. Either way I'll have to dull my senses.
I dont think anybody is thinking any of the top 15 would walk from the NFR. BUT, if you were 16th on down and had another venue you could enter for big bucks you darn sure would and there are ALOT of contestants not in the top 15.
Just take a look at all the ropers in the WSTR finals at South Point. Those are some of the best of the best there that may not have the time and funds to go on the road like the NFR contestants do but dang they can rope. What I also like about watching that is you can see some of the top female ropers that can't compete in the PRCA. Same goes for Vegas putting on a rodeo that might allow the top male barrel racers to compete in a sport that they have been shut out in "the big top" so to speak.
And the ropers there had huge expenses to enter it and the total pay off was not far behind the NFR team roping.
Sorry ya'll but the highest number roping the WSTR does is a 13. When you consider that the triad numbering system goes up to a 9 for headers and a 10 for heelers......these guys are ammies. They will rarely enter an open roping, and if they do, it's darn sure not with their #13 partner. The WSTR was set up for the weekend warrior and businessmen, not professionals. There are some pretty handy guys there, but they are not on a level with the professionals.
I didn't say they were at the level of the NFR ropers although there were former NFR ropers roping there. My point is they had the money almost equal to the NFR. Yes..they had their own expenses and entry fees to pay but they still put on one heck of a roping that paid well and they didn't have to run all over the country to qualify for it.
Florida gets the RNCFR as a consolation prize, but they seem to really want it. I've heard good things about what they have planned. We'll see how it all pans out.
2015 NFR- Vegas or Florida?
