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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
    
Location: Kansas | Looking to put my herd on a new grain so would like some suggestions. My finished mare was on ultium then equistages, not really liking the equistages. The filly was on a mare/foal grain, and since I've pulled her off she has gotten a bit thin so I'll stick her back on a baby grain.
Was wondering about total equine? My best friend feeds it to her herd and likes it, I looked at the tag tonight and it was 15% protein but also 17% fiber. What are low starch/sugar grains available. I don't have access to TC without buying a pallet, just purina and nutrena...also the coop about 30 minutes west of me offers alfalfa pellets. They are on brome round bales and the filly is getting alfalfa flakes in her pen. I liked the ultium for my grey |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | I LOVE the WellSolve L/S by Purina |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 814
Location: Central California | I started 3 on Nutrena Safe Choice Special Care horse pellets 60 days ago. When my husband brought his two home from Texas I put them on it as well. I am pleased with how everyone looks and they love it.
I read lots of lables before I switched and the Nutrena seamed to my to have most everything I was looking for with out all the sugars. |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Seminole. Tribute. Buckeye. ADM.
Are all really good feed companies compared to Nutrena/Purina. I've never fed the Ultium, but I know some people like it. I'm just not a fan of corn.
Nutrena came out with a new feed to compete with Triple Crown Senior. Same analysis. Idk about the starch content, but it SHOULD be around the same. (Same beet pulp/rice bran base concept). We have a feed store here that carries it, but you'd have to look into to it to find it. I don't think it's on the usual TSC/local feed store rotation. I forget what they called it. It was high fat, high fiber, low starch. It looked good on paper. |
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 Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida |
Seminole Wellness Perform Safe is AWESOME!!
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 766
Location: Texas | I have my "easy keeper" on Well Solve L/S along with Enrich plus.
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A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Runaway - 2013-12-16 11:17 PM
Seminole Wellness Perform Safe is AWESOME!!
Is that the stuff that smells minty? LOL. My friend put her horse on Seminole & we're babysitting him for a few weeks & she sent that feed with him. It looks AWESOME. The ingredients are legit and you can see what's in it. But that smell is definitely different! LOL |
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 Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | We use SafeChoice, as well. I used to feed it to my stallion who had laminitis but was a hard keeper, he did really well on it. We don't have any laminitic horses now, but the hard keepers do really well on the SafeChoice :) |
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Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida | hlynn - 2013-12-16 11:25 PM
Runaway - 2013-12-16 11:17 PM
Seminole Wellness Perform Safe is AWESOME!!
Is that the stuff that smells minty? LOL. My friend put her horse on Seminole & we're babysitting him for a few weeks & she sent that feed with him. It looks AWESOME. The ingredients are legit and you can see what's in it. But that smell is definitely different! LOL
No, the Perform Wellness Perform Safe is not the minty one. I have fed that minty before though, it is pungent!! LOL |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | hlynn - 2013-12-16 10:09 PM Seminole. Tribute. Buckeye. ADM. Are all really good feed companies compared to Nutrena/Purina. I've never fed the Ultium, but I know some people like it. I'm just not a fan of corn. Nutrena came out with a new feed to compete with Triple Crown Senior. Same analysis. Idk about the starch content, but it SHOULD be around the same. (Same beet pulp/rice bran base concept). We have a feed store here that carries it, but you'd have to look into to it to find it. I don't think it's on the usual TSC/local feed store rotation. I forget what they called it. It was high fat, high fiber, low starch. It looked good on paper.
Where can I find these at? We have two purina/nutrena dealers near where I live
I'm not a fan of corn either, trust me LOL. My blue roan mare is currently in rope training and she is getting fed an alfalfa pellet mixed with corn, while she is fat and looking good...just not a big person on corn. |
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 Buttered Noodles Snacker
Posts: 4377
Location: NC | I like Legends Performance Pellet. |
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Veteran
Posts: 103
| I have a 21 yo mare diagnosed with insulin resistance 2 yrs ago and was told by the vet to put her on Wellsolve LS and we have to soak her hay for 1 hr before feeding to remove the sugar and starch. Other than that I don't know anybody that routinely feeds it to other types of horses. My vet did not recommend it for any of my others. |
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Expert
Posts: 2678
Location: Mi | I did a lot of research and switched over to Tribute Feeds about a year ago, I'm a believer and am very happy I made the switch....so happy we become a dealer. http://www.tributehorsefeeds.com/ is there main website, you can do a dealer search for your zip code. I'm not sure if there are any out your way or not. There is also a lot of good information on the website. If you have any questions, shoot me a msg I can try to help. |
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A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | hoofs_in_motion - 2013-12-17 8:49 AM
hlynn - 2013-12-16 10:09 PM Seminole. Tribute. Buckeye. ADM. Are all really good feed companies compared to Nutrena/Purina. I've never fed the Ultium, but I know some people like it. I'm just not a fan of corn. Nutrena came out with a new feed to compete with Triple Crown Senior. Same analysis. Idk about the starch content, but it SHOULD be around the same. (Same beet pulp/rice bran base concept). We have a feed store here that carries it, but you'd have to look into to it to find it. I don't think it's on the usual TSC/local feed store rotation. I forget what they called it. It was high fat, high fiber, low starch. It looked good on paper.
Where can I find these at? We have two purina/nutrena dealers near where I live
I'm not a fan of corn either, trust me LOL. My blue roan mare is currently in rope training and she is getting fed an alfalfa pellet mixed with corn, while she is fat and looking good...just not a big person on corn.
You'll have to search through the companies themselves to see of they carry near you. We have a feed store here that carries almost every feed brand out there, minus the strictly west coast based companies. I used to drive the 2 hours out there just for Buckeye before we switched to Triple Crown. It's a lot closer. Still driving 30 minutes to get there, but it's WAY worth it.
ADM has good choices & I think you can get their stuff ordered online. Not 100% though.
Nutrena isn't as bad as they used to be. You could probably find that feed they created to compete with TC if you look hard enough. Or they should be able to order it for you. I'll ask the feed store that posted it awhile back what it's called again. I wish everyone had the kind of feed/tack store this place is. They literally carry EVERYTHING and are still locally owned. I drive out of my way to support them since they're so awesome. |
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A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Runaway - 2013-12-17 7:50 AM
hlynn - 2013-12-16 11:25 PM
Runaway - 2013-12-16 11:17 PM
Seminole Wellness Perform Safe is AWESOME!!
Is that the stuff that smells minty? LOL. My friend put her horse on Seminole & we're babysitting him for a few weeks & she sent that feed with him. It looks AWESOME. The ingredients are legit and you can see what's in it. But that smell is definitely different! LOL
No, the Perform Wellness Perform Safe is not the minty one. I have fed that minty before though, it is pungent!! LOL
It's still a good feed though. I love when I can read & know what each ingredient is, especially the ones listed first. But yeah. It's minty fresh. Lol. He seems to like it though & he's fat & sassy on it. With great breath! |
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Expert
Posts: 1815
| I'm feeding Purina Enrich Plus and alfalfa pellets.......my one horse looks better and feels better than he did on Ultium..... |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | You really need to look at the tags on many of the low starch feeds. Some, I won't mention names, but you can look at the store, list "byproducts" for the first 3-5 ingredients. You really can't tell what is in these products. Many others list alfalfa, and various grain hulls, as the top ingredients. If you are going to feed alfalfa as part of the diet, why pay to have it pressed into a feed? Just feed the amount of alfalfa you feel your horse needs. In other words, many of the low starch feeds are hay and hulls. Don't get me wrong, controlling starch to the level that a horse can properly process is a great thing. I am just not convinced that some of the least cost formulated feeds that are advertised as low starch make nutritional and economic sense. As to vitamins, a fully functioning hind gut will produce most water soluble vitamins needed. And, minerals are the easiest supplements to add. You don't need pressed hay and hulls to get them in the horse. |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | mouse - 2013-12-17 11:57 AM I'm feeding Purina Enrich Plus and alfalfa pellets.......my one horse looks better and feels better than he did on Ultium.....
I feed beet pulp, Enrich 32, and alfalfa pellets to my IR boy and he does fantastic on it! |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2013-12-18 4:05 PM mouse - 2013-12-17 11:57 AM I'm feeding Purina Enrich Plus and alfalfa pellets.......my one horse looks better and feels better than he did on Ultium..... I feed beet pulp, Enrich 32, and alfalfa pellets to my IR boy and he does fantastic on it!
Molasses free beet pulp? |
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The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | uno-dos-tres! - 2013-12-19 2:38 AM WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2013-12-18 4:05 PM mouse - 2013-12-17 11:57 AM I'm feeding Purina Enrich Plus and alfalfa pellets.......my one horse looks better and feels better than he did on Ultium..... I feed beet pulp, Enrich 32, and alfalfa pellets to my IR boy and he does fantastic on it!
I buy Standlee Beet Pulp pellets. There is small amount of molasses added during the drying process to prevent fermentation. However, despite that the NSC content is still very low. I cannot remember off the top of my head what it is. I want to say its about 12 or 13%?? Which is considered the "safe" range for horses with metabolic issues.
I also soak and rinse mine to remove as much of the added molasses as I can.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 585
Location: Texas | I didn't like the Total Equine. My horses just didn't look good to me. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | workerbee - 2013-12-19 9:14 AM I didn't like the Total Equine. My horses just didn't look good to me.
I think I 'm definitely going to stray away from Total Equine, my best friend is feeding it and now her horses look terrible....they are starting to look sunk in especially in the hip area. She just switched back to safechoice. |
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 MEOW!
Posts: 4477
Location: High heels in the air... | Bluebonnet Intensify... |
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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Can I ask, has your horse been diagnosed with a true starch sensativity? Or have you a specific reason for wanting a true low starch feed (or is that an assumption being made by posters)? I didn't actually see that in your original post, but perhaps I read too fast.
I ask because there are only a handful of "true" low starch feeds, suitable for a true, diagnosed starch sensativity. Well Solve L/S being one them. But, if you are not going to dry lot your horse, and they have free will access to pasture...don't waste your money.
There are a lot of feeds available now-a-days that are considered "LOWERED STARCH" feeds. Meaning that they have lower starch and sugar levels than a whole grain & molasses based (sweet) feed. Purina has it's Strategy line, Ultium line, etc. Nutrena has SafeChoice, etc. **Most** pelleted feeds can claim to be a "lowered starch" feed simply because they have by products in them, and little to no molasses. And, BTW..."by-product" doesn't automatically make it a bad feed.
You said Ultium worked, so why not start there? Or if you need to stick with a Purina product due to availability, I'd personally recommend Strategy Healthy Edge. That's what I changed to when it came out, and I love it! My mare has to be on a lowered starch diet due to her EPM and she is great on it.
If I have a customer that is actually experiencing some starch related issues (tying up, or excessive urination, etc) the first thing I have them do is change their turnout habits. I tell them to limit their access to grass until after the dew dries off the grass, and 9 times out of 10, the issue resolves.
Edited by RockinGR 2013-12-19 1:09 PM
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | RockinGR - 2013-12-19 1:07 PM Can I ask, has your horse been diagnosed with a true starch sensativity? Or have you a specific reason for wanting a true low starch feed (or is that an assumption being made by posters)? I didn't actually see that in your original post, but perhaps I read too fast. I ask because there are only a handful of "true" low starch feeds, suitable for a true, diagnosed starch sensativity. Well Solve L/S being one them. But, if you are not going to dry lot your horse, and they have free will access to pasture...don't waste your money. There are a lot of feeds available now-a-days that are considered "LOWERED STARCH" feeds. Meaning that they have lower starch and sugar levels than a whole grain & molasses based (sweet) feed. Purina has it's Strategy line, Ultium line, etc. Nutrena has SafeChoice, etc. **Most** pelleted feeds can claim to be a "lowered starch" feed simply because they have by products in them, and little to no molasses. And, BTW..."by-product" doesn't automatically make it a bad feed. You said Ultium worked, so why not start there? Or if you need to stick with a Purina product due to availability, I'd personally recommend Strategy Healthy Edge. That's what I changed to when it came out, and I love it! My mare has to be on a lowered starch diet due to her EPM and she is great on it. If I have a customer that is actually experiencing some starch related issues (tying up, or excessive urination, etc) the first thing I have them do is change their turnout habits. I tell them to limit their access to grass until after the dew dries off the grass, and 9 times out of 10, the issue resolves.
She was diagnosed with Fibrotic Myopathy 2 years go, vet who diagnosed her said to try and avoid grains full of starch and to put her on a high fat diet. He also believed she had PSSM which was also a reason why he suggested a high fat diet. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | When I mentioned the frequent use of the term "byproduct" on the feed label, my point was that you really do not know what that broad statement means. This is intentional. While these products may or may not be bad, they do allow the feed company to change the formulation every time they make the product. This is done in order to produce the feed at the lowest production cost as commodity prices change. Horses thrive on consistency. If the only thing consistent from bag to bag is the bag it came in, then I would rather not go there. If the ingredients list is actually printed on the bag it is fixed formulated, if there is a tag added to the bag, it is most likely least cost formulated. As to starch load in the diet, there is a point where the starch in the feeding program is no longer of benefit to the horse to make energy. This happens when more starch is introduced than the horse has enzyme to break it down high in the system. When this happens, too much undigested starch may reach the hind gut, alter the ph, and effect the horses ability to efficiently digest its' hay. At this point, every horse can be considered starch sensitive. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 723
Location: South TEXAS | hoofs_in_motion - 2013-12-19 9:17 AM
workerbee - 2013-12-19 9:14 AM I didn't like the Total Equine. My horses just didn't look good to me.
I think I 'm definitely going to stray away from Total Equine, my best friend is feeding it and now her horses look terrible....they are starting to look sunk in especially in the hip area. She just switched back to safechoice.
it takes about 60 days for the total equine to start doing its thing. I tried it once and 30 days in I said NO WAY. a year later I tried it again and gave it the full 60 days and its the best decision I ever made.
it sucks that this feed makes them look so bad that first 30 days because as a horse owner we "think" they are going downhill(and that's definitely not what we want to see) and truly its just pulling fat off and preparing them for the muscle that they will gain.
like I said, I said no the first time but glad I gave it a 2nd chance |
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A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Whatever company you choose to go with, call them & ask about the NSC content in each feed formula. Some post it online. Others don't.
And when the first ingredient in Purina Enrich is 'plant protein byproduct' it makes you wonder. That could be soybeans, corn, cottonseed, milo, anything!! And could change with each bag. That's why people are wary of such broad wordage.
'Soybean meal' 'alfalfa meal' 'wheat middlings' 'dried beet pulp'. All things that can be researched as being ONE product.
Had a friend try enrich 32. Her horse went bonkers. Switched him to TC 30% (same concept/type of feed) & he's fine. No more spooking at dust. And he's losing unnecessary weight & gaining muscle. So no one can tell me that Purina has the 'same kind of feed' as TC or any other QUALITY feed company. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | starkfarms - 2013-12-19 2:43 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2013-12-19 9:17 AM workerbee - 2013-12-19 9:14 AM I didn't like the Total Equine. My horses just didn't look good to me. I think I 'm definitely going to stray away from Total Equine, my best friend is feeding it and now her horses look terrible....they are starting to look sunk in especially in the hip area. She just switched back to safechoice. it takes about 60 days for the total equine to start doing its thing. I tried it once and 30 days in I said NO WAY. a year later I tried it again and gave it the full 60 days and its the best decision I ever made. it sucks that this feed makes them look so bad that first 30 days because as a horse owner we "think" they are going downhill (and that's definitely not what we want to see ) and truly its just pulling fat off and preparing them for the muscle that they will gain. like I said, I said no the first time but glad I gave it a 2nd chance
She has been feeding it for like 6 months, during the summer they looked great on it....but here recently they have been looking terrible. Even with sitting on a roundbale, not sure what going on with it but I don't want to take the chance. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | hlynn - 2013-12-19 2:53 PM Whatever company you choose to go with, call them & ask about the NSC content in each feed formula. Some post it online. Others don't. And when the first ingredient in Purina Enrich is 'plant protein byproduct' it makes you wonder. That could be soybeans, corn, cottonseed, milo, anything!! And could change with each bag. That's why people are wary of such broad wordage. 'Soybean meal' 'alfalfa meal' 'wheat middlings' 'dried beet pulp'. All things that can be researched as being ONE product. Had a friend try enrich 32. Her horse went bonkers. Switched him to TC 30% (same concept/type of feed) & he's fine. No more spooking at dust. And he's losing unnecessary weight & gaining muscle. So no one can tell me that Purina has the 'same kind of feed' as TC or any other QUALITY feed company.
That is what I was worried about as well, I don't want to stick them on something with by products. I really wish I had a store around here that carried triple crown products, I've heard so many good things about it.
This seriously has me stumped on feeding, I've never been good about choosing the right feed |
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A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | hoofs_in_motion - 2013-12-19 3:57 PM
hlynn - 2013-12-19 2:53 PM Whatever company you choose to go with, call them & ask about the NSC content in each feed formula. Some post it online. Others don't. And when the first ingredient in Purina Enrich is 'plant protein byproduct' it makes you wonder. That could be soybeans, corn, cottonseed, milo, anything!! And could change with each bag. That's why people are wary of such broad wordage. 'Soybean meal' 'alfalfa meal' 'wheat middlings' 'dried beet pulp'. All things that can be researched as being ONE product. Had a friend try enrich 32. Her horse went bonkers. Switched him to TC 30% (same concept/type of feed) & he's fine. No more spooking at dust. And he's losing unnecessary weight & gaining muscle. So no one can tell me that Purina has the 'same kind of feed' as TC or any other QUALITY feed company.
That is what I was worried about as well, I don't want to stick them on something with by products. I really wish I had a store around here that carried triple crown products, I've heard so many good things about it.
This seriously has me stumped on feeding, I've never been good about choosing the right feed
It's the best I've found.
What brands can you get? Just the usual Purina & Nutrena? |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | hlynn - 2013-12-19 2:58 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2013-12-19 3:57 PM hlynn - 2013-12-19 2:53 PM Whatever company you choose to go with, call them & ask about the NSC content in each feed formula. Some post it online. Others don't. And when the first ingredient in Purina Enrich is 'plant protein byproduct' it makes you wonder. That could be soybeans, corn, cottonseed, milo, anything!! And could change with each bag. That's why people are wary of such broad wordage. 'Soybean meal' 'alfalfa meal' 'wheat middlings' 'dried beet pulp'. All things that can be researched as being ONE product. Had a friend try enrich 32. Her horse went bonkers. Switched him to TC 30% (same concept/type of feed) & he's fine. No more spooking at dust. And he's losing unnecessary weight & gaining muscle. So no one can tell me that Purina has the 'same kind of feed' as TC or any other QUALITY feed company. That is what I was worried about as well, I don't want to stick them on something with by products. I really wish I had a store around here that carried triple crown products, I've heard so many good things about it.
This seriously has me stumped on feeding, I've never been good about choosing the right feed It's the best I've found. What brands can you get? Just the usual Purina & Nutrena?
Yes just mainly those two in my area, the tack store feeds nutrena/purina products, we have a purina dealer, and of course there is TSC and orschelens.
I do remember asking the purina dealer if they were able to get TC feed in, but he said I would have to order a pallet...and I couldn't find anyone at the time to split a pallet with me. |
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Low starch/sugar feeds