|
|
Member
Posts: 34
| Just FYI |
|
| |
|
 Been Blessed
Posts: 7587
  
Location: Living in my Promised Land | Why? |
|
| |
|
 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | Oh good lord. Not this again........ |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 733
| So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they? |
|
| |
|
 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Linda D - 2013-12-17 9:41 PM Why?
My thought exactly. |
|
| |
|
 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they?
Welfare children. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! |  |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | Nevertooold - 2013-12-17 10:13 PM Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they? Welfare children.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!! that's a good one. |
|
| |
|
  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 12:13 AM Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they? Welfare children.
 |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 733
| Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 9:13 PM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they?
Welfare children.
HEHE walked into that one! We call my recip mare welly, short for wellfare (she has babies for a living). |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 9:05 PM
So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they?
Some people will specify paternal half sibling to such n such. I just say this horse has the same sire as such n such. It's just the way it is...stallions have the capability of feasibly siring more foals in their life time than a mare. II know why people say it because it makes their horse sound better - it's a marketing tool, but if you are knowledgeable in the industry terminology, then a horse is only referred to being a half sibling when they share the same dam. For example, I have a son of Dinero, but I would never call him a 1/2 brother to Stingray. I do however call him a half brother to Tinman because they are out of the same mare. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 352
| Nevertooold - 2013-12-17 11:13 PM
Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they?
Welfare children.
And thank you for the laugh, it's a good way to start a day =) |
|
| |
|
 Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they?
Blood siblings........my dad was SO picky about this, I ALWAYS call foals by the same sire half siblings. You see, I'm contrary that way and no matter what some people think, half the genes come from each parent.
So op, if it makes you feel good to be the horse terminology police, go for it, but don't expect everybody to care. |
|
| |
|
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Nevertooold - 2013-12-17 11:13 PM Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they? Welfare children.
Lol!! |
|
| |
|
 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | ok I couldn't help but laugh! |
|
| |
|
Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| Nevertooold - 2013-12-17 11:13 PM Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they? Welfare children.
Are you callin' Bender's kids welfare children? If so, where can I sign Nutsy up for Chips and Medicade?????????? Headed to the vet today so I need to do it quickly.
I saw that someone asked why. Way back when, people thought the mare had so much influnence on the foal that she was the main force in deciding behavior and ability. Thus, you would hear that 60-80 percent of her was in the foal..........In this day of embryo transfer, I doubt that is the case anymore since often the foal gets genes an equal amount of genetic material from each parent, but is influenced behaviorally by an outside factor. |
|
| |
|
 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 12:13 AM Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they? Welfare children.
This made me laugh. But, oh so true. |
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| kmcsunshine - 2013-12-18 6:57 AM Nevertooold - 2013-12-17 11:13 PM Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they? Welfare children.
I saw that someone asked why. Way back when, people thought the mare had so much influnence on the foal that she was the main force in deciding behavior and ability. Thus, you would hear that 60-80 percent of her was in the foal..........In this day of embryo transfer, I doubt that is the case anymore since often the foal gets genes an equal amount of genetic material from each parent, but is influenced behaviorally by an outside factor.
Interesting. My trainer has always said she thought the dam had a huge influence on the baby since she raises the baby. Do you think with embryo transfer you don't get the "same" baby if the bio dam had carried? Maybe that could be a good thing if you are looking for a different temperament. |
|
| |
|
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | rodeomom3 - 2013-12-18 7:03 AM kmcsunshine - 2013-12-18 6:57 AM Nevertooold - 2013-12-17 11:13 PM Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they? Welfare children.
I saw that someone asked why. Way back when, people thought the mare had so much influnence on the foal that she was the main force in deciding behavior and ability. Thus, you would hear that 60-80 percent of her was in the foal..........In this day of embryo transfer, I doubt that is the case anymore since often the foal gets genes an equal amount of genetic material from each parent, but is influenced behaviorally by an outside factor.
In my mind it depends... I knew a lady that bred foundation horses. All her broodies had nice temperments, as did her stud. However, every baby from that stud was mean as a snake. He was the only consistent factor.
Also genetically speaking, they are half and half. What you are talking about brings in the age old nature vs nuture question. |
|
| |
|
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Technically the OP is correct. There is a reason why all your good bloodstock sales list a small paragraph on the stallion and the entire rest of the page is the dam. What she did and what she produced. The weaker the dam, then her dam and her dams dam can be listed and the DAM will determine sale price more so then the sire. The better the dam, the more money that horse will bring. The odds that horse will be a great athlete greatly increase with a good dam. Good sons and daughters come from good dams. |
|
| |
|
Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | ThreeCorners - 2013-12-18 7:19 AM Technically the OP is correct. There is a reason why all your good bloodstock sales list a small paragraph on the stallion and the entire rest of the page is the dam. What she did and what she produced. The weaker the dam, then her dam and her dams dam can be listed and the DAM will determine sale price more so then the sire. The better the dam, the more money that horse will bring. The odds that horse will be a great athlete greatly increase with a good dam. Good sons and daughters come from good dams.
But then again the odds of awesome, accomplished mares producing exceptional offspring are greatly increased because they are generally not bred to crap studs. |
|
| |
|
 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | So are these two still considered 3/4 siblings???
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&h=HANKBABY&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/good+to+be+the+king
|
|
| |
|
 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I try and stay technically correct with what half sibling means. To me its more important because that mare may have 5-10 babies or less… so if they are super nice, to me it's more significant that I have one of those few babies she has, then if I have one of the hundreds to thousands of babies the sire has.
For example- when Dashin Czar won the crap ton of money this weekend, I was more excited because she shares the DAM to my mare. I don't have a tres seis but I have one of the THREE mares out of Dashin La Jolla.
I think both sire and dam influence personality but I think the mare when given the chance to raise the foal herself will influence it as well. whether she puts in 60% or 80% of its behavior I have no idea. I do know the two babies I have reflect their dam's personalities, but on the flip side I never got to meet First Down French or Confederate Leader to know how they behave. |
|
| |
|
 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | It is just how it is, how it has always been with horses.
I think it is to keep the sellers of by 1/2 sibs out of 1/2 sibs from coming out of the woodwork after the NFR. I have already seen a bajillion by 1/2 this out of 1/2 that to an NFR horse for sale. Most are REALLLLLLY stretching it to make the relation, but whatever floats your boat!
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2013-12-18 9:13 AM
|
|
| |
|
 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | So technically I guess my gelding and mare with the same sire and dam are half siblings and blood related by sire? LOL!!! Good to know. |
|
| |
|
 Regular
Posts: 66
Location: Burns, WY | UMM, if they have the same sire they are known as paternal half siblings. If they have the same dam, they are known as maternal half siblings and if you post it that way, no one will be confused on how they are related to such and such horse.
Half sibling is half sibling no matter what as the dam gives 50% of her genes to the foal and the sire gives 50% of his genes to the foal and any geneticist will tell you that since every horse has two genes of everything and when they are bred forward, they only throw one of their copies of the gene at the foal and the other parent throws one of their two copies of the gene at the foal.
Sure, the mare is definitely going to have an influence on the foal's behaviour but that happens in all species that are raised by a parent.
Understanding breeding and pedigree niching goes a long way in creating those great foals but of course many people nowadays breed to the flavour of the year and then they wonder why they don't get that superior foal, as they know nothing about the horses in the background of their horse's pedigree because a lot of people don't really study pedigrees anymore.
Hell, I have a mare that is an aunt and paternal half sibling to many of my foals. |
|
| |
|
 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Nevertooold - 2013-12-17 11:13 PM Rope-N-Run - 2013-12-17 11:05 PM So if they are by the same sire different dams what are they? Welfare children.
|
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | Totally agree with you OP and you will very rarely see breeders mash up this terminology. Also, I get so burred by - I have a foal out of Fred and by Mary.
Hello!!!! A stallion CANNOT give birth so a foal it NEVER out of the stallion. It is BY the stallion and OUT OF the mare.
I am an Agriculture and English teacher - my Ag Students hate it. |
|
| |
Any half sibling can only be out of the same dam, not the same sire.