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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
  
Location: MD | It's been a while since I have posted one of these and thought that maybe it could lead to some good discussion, as they have in the past.
In this video is a 6 yr old, who has had about 30 days on the pattern (over the course of several months) on his first trip to town for exhibitions. Tear it apart, let's hear what you like, or don't like. Ask questions, explain what you might want to see different, or like about what you see. We never know in which direction the discussions will go on these threads and I think that that is the fun of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6rdTSvTwwQ&feature=c4-overview&list...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RfJ7R7NJ20&feature=c4-overview&list...
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 Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | Okay, I'll bite. I just watched the first one, but I would like to see a smoother first barrel with more finishing the turn coming around the outside. Maybe a slightly bigger pocket going into the first would allow him to finish his turn a little closer. The second and third look pretty decent. Also, I would like to see the horse do a little more on his own without needing so much guidance, Other than that, for 30 days off and on working the pattern, I'd say this one has a lot of potential!
ETA: Went back and watched the second one. First barrel is looking much better, but still losing a little momentum coming around the outside and would want him lined up with the second barrel a little sooner. On the second barrel, the same thing, just closing up the outside of the turn and lining up straighter sooner with the third barrel.
Edited by shaunar 2013-12-23 8:33 AM
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| Looks like a talented horse-you can just tell they are a little green on the pattern.
That horse switches its leads a lot.
In the second video it switches it two (maybe three) times before going to the first. In the second video it also looks like it almost shoulders or resists the bit some between the 1st and 2nd (not sure if I am using the correct wording) but you get the horse to come back to you and listen all the matter of about one stride.
Overall-talented horse-just can tell it is green. It switched its leads so much. I think in one of the videos it switched it going into the third, which made it a little less fluid, and I think in both videos it was on the wrong lead both times going to the third. I should have wrote it down each time I saw it so I could remember while typing this! LOL |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | This pen is certainly a little bit of a difficult setup to get a good line to the first on. In the first video, he came in picked up the correct lead and held it to and around the turn. In the second video, he came in wrong, swapped to the correct lead, turned and swapped leads. I agree that his being green showed through on the day. He was definitely quite distracted and as such, there were a ton of baby bobbles in his runs. |
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IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| I would be happy with how he worked though!!!
Bobbles are just all part of the process, as I am sure you know!!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
| I think he's headed in the right direction. I am just glad to see they ALL really start at square one, no matter how talented the rider! Sometimes I felt like my horse was the only one that ever looked like this in his training. lol! Good Job. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | shaunar - 2013-12-23 8:23 AM
Okay, I'll bite. I just watched the first one, but I would like to see a smoother first barrel with more finishing the turn coming around the outside. Maybe a slightly bigger pocket going into the first would allow him to finish his turn a little closer. The second and third look pretty decent. Also, I would like to see the horse do a little more on his own without needing so much guidance, Other than that, for 30 days off and on working the pattern, I'd say this one has a lot of potential!
ETA: Went back and watched the second one. First barrel is looking much better, but still losing a little momentum coming around the outside and would want him lined up with the second barrel a little sooner. On the second barrel, the same thing, just closing up the outside of the turn and lining up straighter sooner with the third barrel.
for Discussion's sake, where is it that you feel I am having to do a lot of assisting him? In what way would you like to see it happening differently? |
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Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | Oh my, I am nowhere near being a pro trainer. I have started a few of my own, but that's it. I just would like to see him looking for the barrels on his own a little more and maybe making more of an effort to start and/or finish a turn on his own - don't really know how to word that correctly. I realize he is really green and I know he is not going to work like a finished horse. I have read your comments before and realize you are a quite talented trainer! |
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IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| To add to the conversation, I like how well he follows his nose around a barrel.
To me (and correct me if I am wrong) he looks like at the first he hesitates about giving his nose, but then he does. Second barrel he does it better, and third he follows it all the way around.
Once he figures it out he looks like he is going to be snappy and catty coming out of a barrel. |
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  Texas Lone Star
Posts: 5318
Location: where ever my L/Q trl is parked | The rider uses his elbows (flapping) to push the horse forward instead of his hip, thigh, and legs... too much flapping of the elbows in my opinion. We are not birds!  
The horse did fine for the days of training involved. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I don't have much to say, except I like how you sit and ride, Andy! You keep your weight back real nice and you aren't shifting onto his front like so many of us tend to do. I learn by watching riders like you. |
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | I liked how he finished the barrels as well. He reminds me a lot of my colt, I would love my colt to look like that at his first exhibition! |
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 Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | Video number 2 is much much better...you 2 handed him all the way and gave him the extra help he needed. He looked much smoother and more confident going through the pattern. |
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 The Rose of Rodeo...
Posts: 2560
Location: Where we still run to look when the siren goes by. | Aqhaczy - 2013-12-24 10:09 AM The rider uses his elbows (flapping) to push the horse forward instead of his hip, thigh, and legs... too much flapping of the elbows in my opinion. We are not birds!
The horse did fine for the days of training involved.
I think he is using his body a lot to help guide the horse..pali looks to have a lot of questioning steps and Andy is using his body/momentum to tell him he’s headed the right way.
You can see the horse is really in tune and keeps checking back with the rider to know what to do.  |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| WrapSnap - 2013-12-23 7:08 PM
shaunar - 2013-12-23 8:23 AM
Okay, I'll bite. I just watched the first one, but I would like to see a smoother first barrel with more finishing the turn coming around the outside. Maybe a slightly bigger pocket going into the first would allow him to finish his turn a little closer. The second and third look pretty decent. Also, I would like to see the horse do a little more on his own without needing so much guidance, Other than that, for 30 days off and on working the pattern, I'd say this one has a lot of potential!
ETA: Went back and watched the second one. First barrel is looking much better, but still losing a little momentum coming around the outside and would want him lined up with the second barrel a little sooner. On the second barrel, the same thing, just closing up the outside of the turn and lining up straighter sooner with the third barrel.
for Discussion's sake, where is it that you feel I am having to do a lot of assisting him? In what way would you like to see it happening differently?
I find that the colt was flat going into the barrel, you asked for rate and shape and the colt didn't give it to you until the backside of second. This is from the first video |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | magic gunsmoke - 2013-12-24 10:40 AM
To add to the conversation, I like how well he follows his nose around a barrel.
To me (and correct me if I am wrong) he looks like at the first he hesitates about giving his nose, but then he does. Second barrel he does it better, and third he follows it all the way around.
Once he figures it out he looks like he is going to be snappy and catty coming out of a barrel.
He absolutely had a moment at the first where he flipped his nose when I asked for him to give to the bridle and start the turn. At the second, I might even say that he followed his nose too much, got overbent and wadded up a bit through his neck. By the third, I was very happy with how he used himself fromt poll to tail. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Aqhaczy - 2013-12-24 11:09 AM
The rider uses his elbows (flapping) to push the horse forward instead of his hip, thigh, and legs... too much flapping of the elbows in my opinion. We are not birds! The horse did fine for the days of training involved.
I have definitely acquired the habit of being a bit overly demonstrative with my arms when riding colts and horses who are maybe a bit more push style through the years. Funny thing is, if you put me on a free runner, it goes away. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | cheryl makofka - 2013-12-24 12:25 PM
WrapSnap - 2013-12-23 7:08 PM
shaunar - 2013-12-23 8:23 AM
Okay, I'll bite. I just watched the first one, but I would like to see a smoother first barrel with more finishing the turn coming around the outside. Maybe a slightly bigger pocket going into the first would allow him to finish his turn a little closer. The second and third look pretty decent. Also, I would like to see the horse do a little more on his own without needing so much guidance, Other than that, for 30 days off and on working the pattern, I'd say this one has a lot of potential!
ETA: Went back and watched the second one. First barrel is looking much better, but still losing a little momentum coming around the outside and would want him lined up with the second barrel a little sooner. On the second barrel, the same thing, just closing up the outside of the turn and lining up straighter sooner with the third barrel.
for Discussion's sake, where is it that you feel I am having to do a lot of assisting him? In what way would you like to see it happening differently?
I find that the colt was flat going into the barrel, you asked for rate and shape and the colt didn't give it to you until the backside of second. This is from the first video
I would agree with that statement. There was a woman standing off to the side of the second barrel, in the corner, holding her horse. My guy was certainly a bit more attentive to that horse and was fading toward it a bit on the trip across the pen. Upon reaching the 2nd barrel pocket, he finally got his mind back on the task at hand. |
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Texas Lone Star
Posts: 5318
Location: where ever my L/Q trl is parked | WrapSnap - 2013-12-24 1:16 PM Aqhaczy - 2013-12-24 11:09 AM The rider uses his elbows (flapping) to push the horse forward instead of his hip, thigh, and legs... too much flapping of the elbows in my opinion. We are not birds!
The horse did fine for the days of training involved. I have definitely acquired the habit of being a bit overly demonstrative with my arms when riding colts and horses who are maybe a bit more push style through the years. Funny thing is, if you put me on a free runner, it goes away.
I didn't mean for it to sound bad.... usually it someone that is using it as a way to get the horse to run faster. And most of the time I think it's distracting. It's always been a pet peeve with me on the arm flapping. Guess it's from my WP days, heels down & inline with the hips, elbows in, hands quiet and low, back straight and your eyes looking where you're going. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Aqhaczy - 2013-12-24 2:17 PM
WrapSnap - 2013-12-24 1:16 PM Aqhaczy - 2013-12-24 11:09 AM The rider uses his elbows (flapping) to push the horse forward instead of his hip, thigh, and legs... too much flapping of the elbows in my opinion. We are not birds!
The horse did fine for the days of training involved. I have definitely acquired the habit of being a bit overly demonstrative with my arms when riding colts and horses who are maybe a bit more push style through the years. Funny thing is, if you put me on a free runner, it goes away.
I know exactly what you mean. Having grown up in the show rings and specializing mainly in the H/J arena, I have had equitation pounded into my head since the first day I sat on a horse. As such, kicking is a very foreign concept to my body. As much as I do not condone, encourage, or teach chasing one with your arms, it is a habit that I very subconsciously developed. On some horses, it can be incredibly distracting to them. I have also found that it greatly benefits some horses in the early stages, if they tend to be a bit "sticky" however. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I think what they are saying at that he or she just about bounce off the wall with no assistance. Or at least lok that way he does something funny going to,the first i dont,know if you notice it almost as he she does not hunt the first. But when u touch the horse he she are there and turn. I,would like to look at slo mo. Would give the answer, u turn the first and across the pen you go and second and third,are good. He is a nice horse. I think its a stutter step kinda like he is looking and you touch him and he says okay i there. Nice critter. If you watch going to first once you pass timmers that is where he looks and you touch him and he turns. He just needs more hauling. In 18 months i will be in same boat. As my grand daughter of cc i will be seansing. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 907
Location: a secret | I'm a bit off topic here but curious of how the Dream Park is?? thanks |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | HotPants - 2013-12-25 10:45 AM
I'm a bit off topic here but curious of how the Dream Park is?? thanks
The Dream Park is a rather nice facility. Parking is all on dirt/gravel, but both indoors are quite nice, the barns are very nice and the outdoor arena is huge. The Bulls and Barrels events are hactic, with a TON of stuff all going on in one arena that gets sectioned off into many smaller pens. The ground had been interesting when I was travelling there last year, but it seems as though they have it figured out much better now. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 907
Location: a secret | Thanks for your reply. I thought the ground looked good I had heard it was not great. I will give it try !! Merry Christmas |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | HotPants - 2013-12-25 10:52 AM
Thanks for your reply. I thought the ground looked good I had heard it was not great. I will give it try !! Merry Christmas
The ground was certainly the best I have ever known it last Saturday. Last winter, there were many times that there was a thin layer of powder on top and then you hit straight hard pan. I liked the ground well enough last week, even for my big 16.2 HH, butt dragging, rollback horse that I'm going to take a couple of nicer Open horses with me on Tuesday. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Nice horse, I like that he really listens to you, you can tell hes green but a really good student and willing to learn, got nice flex to him and soft mouth. Andys going to have this colt going really nice in the next few months, and love the way Andy rides, he's a real hustler and gets his job done 
But question about the arena, looks tiny, whats the times in it? The 3rd barrel looks so close.  |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Southtxponygirl - 2013-12-25 11:58 AM
Nice horse, I like that he really listens to you, you can tell hes green but a really good student and willing to learn, got nice flex to him and soft mouth. Andys going to have this colt going really nice in the next few months, and love the way Andy rides, he's a real hustler and gets his job done But question about the arena, looks tiny, whats the times in it? The 3rd barrel looks so close.
It's a horrible setup. Very wide and squatty. The timers are right as you enter, with no real line to the first. Good Pro horses will clock a mid 15 on that pattern. The name of the game is to lope in, run as hard as you can to the second, try not to bounce off the fence at the third and run hard home. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | WrapSnap - 2013-12-25 12:12 PM Southtxponygirl - 2013-12-25 11:58 AM Nice horse, I like that he really listens to you, you can tell hes green but a really good student and willing to learn, got nice flex to him and soft mouth. Andys going to have this colt going really nice in the next few months, and love the way Andy rides, he's a real hustler and gets his job done
But question about the arena, looks tiny, whats the times in it? The 3rd barrel looks so close. It's a horrible setup. Very wide and squatty. The timers are right as you enter, with no real line to the first. Good Pro horses will clock a mid 15 on that pattern. The name of the game is to lope in, run as hard as you can to the second, try not to bounce off the fence at the third and run hard home.
I saw were the timers were and I thought to myself that this arena is going to be tricky, the bigger long strided horse will be on top of the 3rd barrel in two to 3 strides, you got to be quick thinking I bet when you go in. And your coming in stright form the bright sunlight into the arena right? You got to be really on top of your game at this place I bet  |
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What do you think?