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Expert
Posts: 1488
  
| Just got finished reading an article about Guy Clark in Texas monthly.
Part of the article and consequent interviewing of Clark he talked about how he felt somehow "free" when he no longer had to take care of Townes Van Zandt and Susannah and it got me to thinking and doing a little research on TVZ
Now to the thing to ponder, TVZ was songwriting genius but like many other artists and super creative minds he was a truly tortured soul.
Why is it that many of the truly creative, artistic, genius type folks are so tortured?
NOTE: if you don't know who these guys are you are missing out on some good stuff.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
 
Location: Midwest | Interesting topic.
I think to be able to see great beauty, one needs to know great pain. |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I think of this often too, as I work with some very talented designers in my field, and have had this discussion many times with my friends and husband. Have you also noticed that most of these people are left handed? I think that's an interesting fact as well. I believe there is such a fine line between madness and genius that most of those who are truly lyrical, musical, design, genuis's often straddle. The human brain is such a complex thing and those who are so talented, but also so tormented I believe have something in their brain that never allows them to shut it off. Their brain is always going, thinking, pondering. They are never able to just relax and chill. I cannot imagine how torturous that could be on a person.
Edited by Herbie 2013-12-30 9:45 AM
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Most high intelligence/genius types are wired different. They don't fit into what is designated as "normal" and I think most of them also have a high degree of self awareness. There is probably something to what Herbie said as well. There is research indicating that a large number of people suffering from Sensory Processing Disorder are very high intelligence. Everything comes with a price. |
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Expert
Posts: 1488
| IN reading more about TVZ he was a very intelligent young man as well as being a talented musician. Early on in his life he was diagnosed as maniac depressive and Bi-polar and went thru 3 months of insulin shock therapy that erased much of his long term memory. His mother contended to her dieing day that her biggest regret in life was allowing that therapy on Townes.
But he spent his life in a drug and alcohl induced stupor and wrote some amazing songs. |
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Sometimes, when I dream, I can play piano, hear every note and I am AMAZING......then when I wake up, I don't know how to play anymore and forgot all the notes.......what does that mean??? |
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Addicted to Baseball
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright, TX | I love TVZ have a number of songs of his on my Iphone.
I think that type are very emotional people, heightened sense of feeling than some others and often live in a world of their own on some level which can clash with how things really are. I think too that many have said they can't turn the voices/sounds/ideas off. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Three 4 Luck - 2013-12-30 9:51 AM Most high intelligence/genius types are wired different. They don't fit into what is designated as "normal" and I think most of them also have a high degree of self awareness. There is probably something to what Herbie said as well. There is research indicating that a large number of people suffering from Sensory Processing Disorder are very high intelligence. Everything comes with a price.
yup
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | DD2012 - 2013-12-30 9:59 AM IN reading more about TVZ he was a very intelligent young man as well as being a talented musician. Early on in his life he was diagnosed as maniac depressive and Bi-polar and went thru 3 months of insulin shock therapy that erased much of his long term memory. His mother contended to her dieing day that her biggest regret in life was allowing that therapy on Townes. But he spent his life in a drug and alcohl induced stupor and wrote some amazing songs.
You'd be amazed at how many bi-polar people suffer from blood sugar problems, like hypoglycemia. The alcohol makes it worse, but it's common for them to self-medicate that way. Vicious cycle. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | DD2012 - 2013-12-30 9:59 AM IN reading more about TVZ he was a very intelligent young man as well as being a talented musician. Early on in his life he was diagnosed as maniac depressive and Bi-polar and went thru 3 months of insulin shock therapy that erased much of his long term memory. His mother contended to her dieing day that her biggest regret in life was allowing that therapy on Townes. But he spent his life in a drug and alcohl induced stupor and wrote some amazing songs.
Maniac or manic??? Sorry, couldn't resist, DD2012. 
Many of the people I know how are mad scientists of the Arts live their lives in a drug induced/alcohol induced state. There's a certain songwriter in the red dirt country world who will tell you straight out that he can't write or perform without the help of certain drugs. He contends that it just slows his mind down enough to really feel the music. Otherwise he says he can't concentrate on any one thing long enough to complete it.
Much like the TRUE ADHD afflicted person, Aderol slows their mind down enough to concentrate. Ther person who is not afflicted with ADHD takes the drug and it's speed for them. I believe the same could be said for these artistic people and the "treatment" they seek.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I think a lot of people with addictions are really just seeking to kill the pain.... JMO |
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I Will Not Keep Silent
Posts: 1922
Location: GA | Jim Morrison was a genuis not just a musical genius. He was affectionately known as a chaotic genius. Jimi Hendrix was a musical genius. A truly brilliant musician. I do not know how he tested on a genius scale.
My brother and sister were tested off the chart and always so troubled. My sister died young and I do think it attributed to her death. My plans are to write a book about her some day.
Such a soul stirring topic for me that I wish I had more time for.
Edited by *robin* 2013-12-30 11:03 AM
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | LRQHS - 2013-12-30 10:06 AM Sometimes, when I dream, I can play piano, hear every note and I am AMAZING......then when I wake up, I don't know how to play anymore and forgot all the notes.......what does that mean???
I'm assuming that from the lack of response that I am not technically a genius then???? Sad news......sad news indeed..... |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | LRQHS - 2013-12-30 11:13 AM LRQHS - 2013-12-30 10:06 AM Sometimes, when I dream, I can play piano, hear every note and I am AMAZING......then when I wake up, I don't know how to play anymore and forgot all the notes.......what does that mean??? I'm assuming that from the lack of response that I am not technically a genius then???? Sad news......sad news indeed.....
I had a dream I was doing lots of drugs, but they weren't working. I was mad. The end.
Wonder what that means...
Also, I can play piano in my dreams too. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Herbie - 2013-12-30 10:14 AM DD2012 - 2013-12-30 9:59 AM IN reading more about TVZ he was a very intelligent young man as well as being a talented musician. Early on in his life he was diagnosed as maniac depressive and Bi-polar and went thru 3 months of insulin shock therapy that erased much of his long term memory. His mother contended to her dieing day that her biggest regret in life was allowing that therapy on Townes. But he spent his life in a drug and alcohl induced stupor and wrote some amazing songs. Maniac or manic??? Sorry, couldn't resist, DD2012.
Many of the people I know how are mad scientists of the Arts live their lives in a drug induced/alcohol induced state. There's a certain songwriter in the red dirt country world who will tell you straight out that he can't write or perform without the help of certain drugs. He contends that it just slows his mind down enough to really feel the music. Otherwise he says he can't concentrate on any one thing long enough to complete it.
Much like the TRUE ADHD afflicted person, Aderol slows their mind down enough to concentrate. Ther person who is not afflicted with ADHD takes the drug and it's speed for them. I believe the same could be said for these artistic people and the "treatment" they seek.
Love Guy Clark.... That's what country should sound like.
I'm curious as to how much of the alcohol/drug abuse starts because of the enviroments these guys are in all the time? I think the red dirt scene has some amazing artists, I just wonder if musicians as a whole seem to get more involved in drugs/alcohol because of the lifestyle? I'm not saying they all take it to excess at all and I'm not totally blaming the lifestyle. I do think it's a factor. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | barrelracr131 - 2013-12-30 11:15 AM LRQHS - 2013-12-30 11:13 AM LRQHS - 2013-12-30 10:06 AM Sometimes, when I dream, I can play piano, hear every note and I am AMAZING......then when I wake up, I don't know how to play anymore and forgot all the notes.......what does that mean??? I'm assuming that from the lack of response that I am not technically a genius then???? Sad news......sad news indeed.....
Wonder what that means...
Also, I can play piano in my dreams too.
I think it means we need to find some weed and have a visit :)
And, like how good are you at playing piano in your dreams? I'm freaking awesome!! lol.....like Bach and I have a piano war and I win lol! I win everytime with "The Devil Goes Down to GA"......he never anticipates that one lol.... |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Yesssss 
In one dream my mother and I were walking through the mall, and we came upon a piano with no one playing it... I walked up and played Beethoven's 5th... and everyone was amazed, including my mother who said, "I didn't know you played piano!"
I was all like, "Neither did I." |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | we sort of derailed this thread
sorry
but often the "tortured soul" has the most to express
it also has the most to forget. |
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Expert
Posts: 1488
| MS2011 - 2013-12-30 11:16 AM
Herbie - 2013-12-30 10:14 AM DD2012 - 2013-12-30 9:59 AM IN reading more about TVZ he was a very intelligent young man as well as being a talented musician. Early on in his life he was diagnosed as maniac depressive and Bi-polar and went thru 3 months of insulin shock therapy that erased much of his long term memory. His mother contended to her dieing day that her biggest regret in life was allowing that therapy on Townes. But he spent his life in a drug and alcohl induced stupor and wrote some amazing songs. Maniac or manic??? Sorry, couldn't resist, DD2012.
Many of the people I know how are mad scientists of the Arts live their lives in a drug induced/alcohol induced state. There's a certain songwriter in the red dirt country world who will tell you straight out that he can't write or perform without the help of certain drugs. He contends that it just slows his mind down enough to really feel the music. Otherwise he says he can't concentrate on any one thing long enough to complete it.
Much like the TRUE ADHD afflicted person, Aderol slows their mind down enough to concentrate. Ther person who is not afflicted with ADHD takes the drug and it's speed for them. I believe the same could be said for these artistic people and the "treatment" they seek.
I'm curious as to how much of the alcohol/drug abuse starts because of the enviroments these guys are in all the time? I think the red dirt scene has some amazing artists, I just wonder if musicians as a whole seem to get more involved in drugs/alcohol because of the lifestyle? I'm not saying they all take it to excess at all and I'm not totally blaming the lifestyle. I do think it's a factor.
Not sure how much the enviroment plays a role
Consider if you will Hemmingway, as a writer he was not forced into the bar scene. But the guy did some of his best work while drunk or high.
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| DD2012 - 2013-12-30 1:12 PM
MS2011 - 2013-12-30 11:16 AM
Herbie - 2013-12-30 10:14 AM DD2012 - 2013-12-30 9:59 AM IN reading more about TVZ he was a very intelligent young man as well as being a talented musician. Early on in his life he was diagnosed as maniac depressive and Bi-polar and went thru 3 months of insulin shock therapy that erased much of his long term memory. His mother contended to her dieing day that her biggest regret in life was allowing that therapy on Townes. But he spent his life in a drug and alcohl induced stupor and wrote some amazing songs. Maniac or manic??? Sorry, couldn't resist, DD2012.
Many of the people I know how are mad scientists of the Arts live their lives in a drug induced/alcohol induced state. There's a certain songwriter in the red dirt country world who will tell you straight out that he can't write or perform without the help of certain drugs. He contends that it just slows his mind down enough to really feel the music. Otherwise he says he can't concentrate on any one thing long enough to complete it.
Much like the TRUE ADHD afflicted person, Aderol slows their mind down enough to concentrate. Ther person who is not afflicted with ADHD takes the drug and it's speed for them. I believe the same could be said for these artistic people and the "treatment" they seek.
I'm curious as to how much of the alcohol/drug abuse starts because of the enviroments these guys are in all the time? I think the red dirt scene has some amazing artists, I just wonder if musicians as a whole seem to get more involved in drugs/alcohol because of the lifestyle? I'm not saying they all take it to excess at all and I'm not totally blaming the lifestyle. I do think it's a factor.
Not sure how much the enviroment plays a role
Consider if you will Hemmingway, as a writer he was not forced into the bar scene. But the guy did some of his best work while drunk or high.
Hemingway is a great example. (minus his ability to extend a sentence forever, IMO) I also humbly offer up some famous musicians who are also well documented with their addiction problems ... Johnny Cash, Bon Scott, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and many others. I do agree that there is a fine line between genius and manic issues and those of us in science research will never fully understand the human brain. While we are trying and have a great majority of it mapped, there is much we don't understand about the link between stimulants and creativity. VERY interesting stuff, IMO. |
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 Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | isnt bieber a torchered soul too |
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Something to ponder