|
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
  
|
Am I the only one who truly believes most horses with proper training and a competent jockey have the potential to be 2D? Im talking about sound, sane horses in their prime, not injured horses or horses that are 22 yo.
Ive seen a horse that was pulled off a dude ranch and he ran a tenth off an arena record and Ive seen plenty of ranch horses trained and running hard 1D-2D times.
Whats your thoughts on this? |
|
| |
|
 Midget Lover
  
Location: Kentucky | Can't say I agree with you on that one. |
|
| |
|
 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | It's about heart and want to.... I've had a few that just didn't want to. They could run 3D times all day long, but wouldn't give that extra little bit that it takes to be tough.
1D - 2D horses are tough because they will give up that little bit of themselves that will eventually get them hurt because they are trying so hard. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | I don't agree. I had a very nice Sticks N Stones son and he had a very solid, consistent pretty honest pattern, but he did not have the gas. If you asked him for his life he'd be 1 second off, but he was much happier about 1.5 sec-2 secs off. |
|
| |
|
 The BHW Book Worm
Posts: 1768
| if every ones horse had a super foundation on them and a jockey that has a real understanding of communication under saddle there would more in the 1/2D. but I wouldn't say every horse
Edited by Thistle2011 2014-01-08 12:21 PM
|
|
| |
|
 My Eating is Horrible
Posts: 1719
Location: GA | Don't agree either ... one of the mares I ride now, she's honest & tries hard but she is 3D local/4D World. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| Lucky_H - 2014-01-08 12:21 PM
Don't agree either ... one of the mares I ride now, she's honest & tries hard but she is 3D local/4D World.
In no place did I say all horses or even all sound horses...
|
|
| |
|
 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Maybe most, but not all. In the past few years, my family has owned 4 different horses that did not have even top of the 3D potential. They were all nice horses who served a purpose for us, but only two of them were even capable of running 1.5 seconds off my rodeo horse. When it comes to barrel horses, you just can't fix slow. |
|
| |
|
 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia |
Absolutely not! My big guy was a 3D horse on a good day and that's all. Now that he is 19, he is a solid 4D horse. But even when he was young, there is no way in hell he could have broken into the 2D. Sorry, but its just not possible for every horse. I think every horse is capable of being a barrel horse, but some just arent built to go fast. |
|
| |
|
 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | Itsme - 2014-01-09 10:24 AM
Lucky_H - 2014-01-08 12:21 PM
Don't agree either ... one of the mares I ride now, she's honest & tries hard but she is 3D local/4D World.
In no place did I say all horses or even all sound horses...
Your'e right, you didn't but the title did... |
|
| |
|
  The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | No. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| Itsme - 2014-01-08 12:24 PM
Lucky_H - 2014-01-08 12:21 PM
Don't agree either ... one of the mares I ride now, she's honest & tries hard but she is 3D local/4D World.
In no place did I say all horses or even all sound horses...
Oh yeah I did, in the title, but that was to get the views and responses.
I dont think they all can but I do think a high percentage can. |
|
| |
|
 The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | I dont agree. |
|
| |
|
Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Itsme - 2014-01-08 1:29 PM Itsme - 2014-01-08 12:24 PM Lucky_H - 2014-01-08 12:21 PM Don't agree either ... one of the mares I ride now, she's honest & tries hard but she is 3D local/4D World. In no place did I say all horses or even all sound horses... Oh yeah I did, in the title, but that was to get the views and responses. I dont think they all can but I do think a high percentage can.
What percentage? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| Murphy - 2014-01-08 12:32 PM
Itsme - 2014-01-08 1:29 PM Itsme - 2014-01-08 12:24 PM Lucky_H - 2014-01-08 12:21 PM Don't agree either ... one of the mares I ride now, she's honest & tries hard but she is 3D local/4D World. In no place did I say all horses or even all sound horses... Oh yeah I did, in the title, but that was to get the views and responses. I dont think they all can but I do think a high percentage can.
Well I did say most so over 50%. I believe its a lot higher than that with good training from the start and the correct jockey. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| For the record Im not voting anyone down or not happy because everyone doesn't agree with me. Im on here for learning and expressing different unbiased opinions... |
|
| |
|
 It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | No. Some horses just don't have the speed to do it. |
|
| |
|
 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | I think if it was that easy, you'd see more people with 2D horses but that just isn't the case. I think most horses would fall into a 3D/4D range and the ones who rise above are more of a super athlete than most horses are. Some are just speed freaks who can handle short sprints better than others and turning is something they love. If all it took was the right rider and training, I know of many members on here who would be in the 2D but it also takes the right horse to get there. Most do not have that potential. |
|
| |
|
 Ima Fickle Fan
Posts: 3547
Location: Texas | If every horse had 2D potential, there would be no need for breeding programs designed to produce top athletes. After all, if it were just training and the jockey, every horse could do it.
That's like saying every healthy human should be competitive in a race against Usain Bolt. That is NOT going to happen.
Training and a good jockey will help a horse perform its best. But you can't train or ride a horse that is not athletic or one that doesn't have the speed and make it competitive with those horses that do have the speed. Doesn't make them a bad horse, there is just a reason breeding programs strive to breed athletic, fast horses for barrels.
Edited by aggiejudger 2014-01-08 1:06 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | Have to respectfully disagree |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| Are you guys the best jockeys for all horses?
Ive seen horses clock 2D-3D times with great riders but the same horses are in the 1Ds consistently with a different rider. Sometimes its jockey weight other times its riding style.
I do find a lot of these responses interesting. |
|
| |
|
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think most decent, healthy, sound quarter horses have the POTENTIAL to be 2D horses, yes. The key words are "most" and "potential". You still have to have a good rider and decent training with sound fundamentals. Those are the big variables. |
|
| |
|
 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Are we talking ALL horses in general regardless of breed or bloodlines? Or are we talking more specifically horses bred to run barrels? |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I guess when I read this thread as well as others, I am just real lucky and thankful that I have had some great teachers. I've sure learned the hard way. I think a lot of times the real fundamentals of horsemanship are glossed over, both with individual horses as well as the riders themselves. I have even seen a few so-called successful riders who are missing something as far as fundamentals are concerned. Thanks to my teaching, I have developed a pretty good eye....now if I could just translate that into my OWN riding, I'd be set! LOL |
|
| |
|
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I think it is more realistic to say they could all be 4D at large shows. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| SaraJean - 2014-01-08 1:36 PM
Are we talking ALL horses in general regardless of breed or bloodlines? Or are we talking more specifically horses bred to run barrels?
Im not concerned with bloodlines but im not talking about ponies and minnies either. |
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 392
Location: CA | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-08 11:34 AM
I think most decent, healthy, sound quarter horses have the POTENTIAL to be 2D horses, yes. The key words are "most" and "potential". You still have to have a good rider and decent training with sound fundamentals. Those are the big variables.
If we are talking healthy sound quarter horse type horses i think more horses have 2D potential than riders. But no i dont think the majority of horses have true 2D potential at bigger races. At a race where the fastest time is say a 17.0 on a standard the 2D would be a 17.5 that is still a fast time that takes a ton of skill on both the horse, trainer and jockeys part. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| HotbearLVR - 2014-01-08 1:34 PM
I think most decent, healthy, sound quarter horses have the POTENTIAL to be 2D horses, yes. The key words are "most" and "potential". You still have to have a good rider and decent training with sound fundamentals. Those are the big variables.
This was basically my point and opinion. Ive seen too many discarded pasture ornaments run really strong when trained and legged up properly. |
|
| |
|
| No, I don't think they ALL have 2D potential. However based on looking at bloodlines when buying a prospect I think to myself that they should certainly be able to get the job done in the arena. . . it just doesnt always work that way however.
I have a really cool gelding that we have had since he was 6 years old (now 17) and he will give 110% all day long but he just doesnt have the wheels to clock. Super nice 3D/4D horse that has a really really pretty pattern but the gas just isnt there. He is pretty priceless to us and I don't know if we will ever sell him, so we let some youth run him in the summer. I like giving people the chance to hop on a different horse than what they are already on so they can get a good variety of horses under their belt for experience.
I also have a gelding that I am just happy to hit the bottom of the 2D with. He is just TOO ratey and his turning style shuts him down too much to keep him fast against the clock. |
|
| |
|
 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | I give another vote for NO.
When you consider western pleasure bred horses, draft horses, gaited horses, and ALL the healthy sound horses in the world who are in their prime, I do NOT believe that even half of them can make a solid 2D horse.
Breed was never specified in the semantics argument, so just bringing that up.
Still, if we consider only quarter horses, I still would say no.
|
|
| |
|
Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | If it was just that easy to pull almost any horse out of the pasture in it's prime, I think we'd see barrel trainers making tons of money off of selling these 2D potential horses. After all, if you have the right training and environment, it should be a breeze to factory make them, right? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| Red Raider - 2014-01-08 2:15 PM
If it was just that easy to pull almost any horse out of the pasture in it's prime, I think we'd see barrel trainers making tons of money off of selling these 2D potential horses. After all, if you have the right training and environment, it should be a breeze to factory make them, right?
I never said it would be easy.
Take a horse out of pasture in its prime put a strong foundation under him then train on barrels and season for however long that particular horse requires and I think paired with the right jockey they have a good shot at the 2D. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | I have a gelding that COULD be a 1D all day long barrel horse if he wanted to be but he doesn't want to so he looks like he's out for a joy ride. |
|
| |
|
 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day.  |
|
| |
|
Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Itsme - 2014-01-08 12:46 PM SaraJean - 2014-01-08 1:36 PM Are we talking ALL horses in general regardless of breed or bloodlines? Or are we talking more specifically horses bred to run barrels? Im not concerned with bloodlines but im not talking about ponies and minnies either.
So lets toss out all the draft horses, ponies & all the gaited horses for that matter. But then even just in the stock horse breeds you've got your halter horses, the true western pleasure horses & so many others that have been bred to extreme specialization for their specific discipline. While some of those horses would make it in the barrel pen most would not especially as 2D horses. There is a reason breeding for barrel racing & other disciplines has become so specialized, it's because those lines are proven again & again to excel and win. But even that isn't enough to get a top calliber horse, they don't all love what they're bred to do. Even if you take every horse that is specifically bred for barrels & give them the same caliber of feed, hoof care, training, well fitted tack & riders of equal caliber not all are going to make it to the top. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM
No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day.
While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine.
Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding?
Interesting how this kinda comes full circle... |
|
| |
|
 Dancing in my Mind
Posts: 3062
Location: Eastern OH but my heart is in WV | I had a mare several years ago that had all the ability in the world. I was a decent rider in my prime and this horse could REALLY lay down a set of barrels when she WANTED to, the problem was she did NOT have the heart or desire for it. I put a LOT of work into her and a solid foundation but again she just did not have the heart for it. We switched her to English and she excelled and clearly loved it. I believe a horse can have all the potential in the world and have a great rider but if they do not have the heart for it, they are never going to make any "D" of a horse, at least not one that is fun to ride. So I think even if a horse has the physical ability, without the heart they "worthless" at the displine we try to fit them to. |
|
| |
|
Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Itsme - 2014-01-08 3:45 PM OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day. While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine. Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding? Interesting how this kinda comes full circle...
Edited by Murphy 2014-01-08 2:53 PM
|
|
| |
|
Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| horses are just like people you got smart ones dumd ones medicore ones.
that why i to say no and disagree most horse are 3 and 4 d |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| Murphy - 2014-01-08 2:51 PM
Itsme - 2014-01-08 3:45 PM OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day. While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine. Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding? Interesting how this kinda comes full circle...
I do agree some lines have better potential than the average cow bred horse. I just believe the average horse has more potential than most people think and a lot of a horses abilities shine through with good training and the correct jockey. |
|
| |
|
 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | I think it would depend on the horse itself, and the rider.
Some are just slugs when it comes to running, but others have that "hidden" potential. I'm not the best jockey and I'll admit that, ever since I had my daughter I just can't get back into the groove of running my mare. I'll clock up with rodeo horses, and in 2D at local shows....but if you stick someone smaller and more agressive on my mare....she will clock in the 1D.
I've ridden horses that no matter who or what you stick on them, they just won't clock good. So I would say it varies on the horse |
|
| |
|
Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Itsme - 2014-01-08 1:56 PM Murphy - 2014-01-08 2:51 PM Itsme - 2014-01-08 3:45 PM OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day. While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine. Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding? Interesting how this kinda comes full circle... I do agree some lines have better potential than the average cow bred horse. I just believe the average horse has more potential than most people think and a lot of a horses abilities shine through with good training and the correct jockey.
It really goes both ways. There are a lot of horses out there that because of who's hands they end up in are either ruined or never reach their full potential. But there's just as many horses that are given every opportunity in the best hands to be great and they amount to nothing. |
|
| |
|
Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| I agree with you... I believe MOST not ALL but MOST sound horses that are "truely" broke (good foundation) and have a good jockey can be at least 2d. I dont mean to sound bad and I normally wouldnt say this in real life (I am to nice and dont normally offer my opinions) but I think a lot of people are close minded and have the thought that their way is the best and sell horses because they "dont" work out... when they really dont see that they need to work on themselves more then the horse... I think that some riders inhibit a horses true potential.. causing a horse that would be 1D to be 3 or 4D.. primarily because the horse doesnt have the proper training and the owner isnt competent enough to fix it... From that I also think there are more 1d horses out there then given credit and that if they were in the right hands (that the other 1d horses were in) that they would be in the 1d... think about it... where a horse ends up is all luck... no different then the families we are born into.... There is a lot of unfounded athletes out there just because of the hands they fall into....
EDITED bec of my terrible spelling lol
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2014-01-08 3:27 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2014-01-08 3:18 PM
I agree with you... I believe MOST not ALL but MOST sound horses that are "truely" broke (good foundation) and have a good jockey can be at least 2d. I dont mean to sound bad and I normally wouldnt say this in real life (I am to nice and dont normally offer my opinions) but I think a lot of people are close minded and have the thought that their way is the best and sell horses because they "dont" work out... when they really dont see that they need to work on themselves more then the horse... I think that the some riders inhibit a horses true potential.. causing a horse that would be 1D to be 3 or 4D.. primarily because the horse doesnt have the propler training and the owner isnt competent enough to fix it... From that I also think there are more 1d horses out there then given credit and that if they weer in the right hands (that the other 1d horses were in) that they would be in the 1d... think about it... where a horse ends up is al luck.. no different then the families we are born into.... There is a lot of unfounded athletes out there then given credit to....
And you like the Packers!  |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| SaraJean - 2014-01-08 3:17 PM
Itsme - 2014-01-08 1:56 PM Murphy - 2014-01-08 2:51 PM Itsme - 2014-01-08 3:45 PM OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day. While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine. Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding? Interesting how this kinda comes full circle... I do agree some lines have better potential than the average cow bred horse. I just believe the average horse has more potential than most people think and a lot of a horses abilities shine through with good training and the correct jockey.
Cant argue with that. |
|
| |
|
Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Itsme - 2014-01-08 3:21 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2014-01-08 3:18 PM I agree with you... I believe MOST not ALL but MOST sound horses that are "truely" broke (good foundation) and have a good jockey can be at least 2d. I dont mean to sound bad and I normally wouldnt say this in real life (I am to nice and dont normally offer my opinions) but I think a lot of people are close minded and have the thought that their way is the best and sell horses because they "dont" work out... when they really dont see that they need to work on themselves more then the horse... I think that the some riders inhibit a horses true potential.. causing a horse that would be 1D to be 3 or 4D.. primarily because the horse doesnt have the propler training and the owner isnt competent enough to fix it... From that I also think there are more 1d horses out there then given credit and that if they weer in the right hands (that the other 1d horses were in) that they would be in the 1d... think about it... where a horse ends up is al luck.. no different then the families we are born into.... There is a lot of unfounded athletes out there then given credit to.... And you like the Packers!
haha... yes, even when they lose I still "LOVE" the Packers. |
|
| |
|
 Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Maybe we should discuss whether we believe that most all horses show at their full potential. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2258
| CanCan - 2014-01-08 6:32 PM
Maybe we should discuss whether we believe that most all horses show at their full potential.
There you go I think a lot of horses just don't work as hard as others. I have a mare that my daughter rides who is a super athlete and runs a gorgeous pattern but if you can get an 18.5 out of her you have work your butt off. She is happy to run 19 and 20's if you just want to go through the pattern. She will however run 21 poles and seems to love them. |
|
| |
|
 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | Itsme - 2014-01-08 12:13 PM Am I the only one who truly believes most horses with proper training and a competent jockey have the potential to be 2D? Im talking about sound, sane horses in their prime, not injured horses or horses that are 22 yo. Ive seen a horse that was pulled off a dude ranch and he ran a tenth off an arena record and Ive seen plenty of ranch horses trained and running hard 1D-2D times. Whats your thoughts on this?
Initially i thought yes, but then i though harder about the actual question and i'm not sure many percherons, clydesdales, belgians, fjord horses, etc fit that statement..... i don't think our mini spotsie would either although my daughter can really ride him and he is **** fast when you are trying to chase him back in.....wore out my horse so i went and got the ranger and gave him a real lesson...but not til he was really worn out.... |
|
| |
|
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | CanCan - 2014-01-08 6:32 PM Maybe we should discuss whether we believe that most all horses show at their full potential.
or that most riders can take a horse to their full potential....which is probably more of an issue.... |
|
| |
|
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Itsme - 2014-01-08 12:45 PM OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day. While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine. Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding? Interesting how this kinda comes full circle...
I completely disagree.  How many horses have you trained? What were they bred like? Have you ever had an FG bred horse? Like them or not. Think they are over done or not, they perform. Once you've ridden a horse that feels like a Mercedes....no way you're going to settle for a Ugo. There's no barrel racing results anywhere that don't have an FG/FWF/several other name brands, in there.
Take a look at the pro people. They don't give a rat's patoot what a horse is bred like if they can win with it. Guess what they're riding. FWF, FG, Jet Of Honor, out west we have a TON of Biankus bred horses. All these are mixed together and with racebred horses. People will ride what can win, even if it's a pintaloosaminiwalkamule. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| OregonBR - 2014-01-08 8:28 PM Itsme - 2014-01-08 12:45 PM OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day. While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine. Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding? Interesting how this kinda comes full circle...
Im in no way shape or form a trainer and I feel that gives me an unbised opinion from what I see at races and jackpots with no emotional feelings eitherway.
Yup, they have flooded the system with them. And remember were talking 2D not winning the world. |
|
| |
|
 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| The system is also flooded with diesel pickups. Why, one might ask? Because they are the right tool for the job. Certain bloodlines are proven to replicate certain traits with consistancy. Then the people to whom these traits are desirable seek out these bloodlines creating a market that follows the laws of supply and demand. The cutters aren't buying up Storm Cats to take to the cutting pen. Breeding tells in horses, dogs and women....LOL, |
|
| |
|
Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | OregonBR - 2014-01-08 7:28 PM Itsme - 2014-01-08 12:45 PM OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day. While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine. Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding? Interesting how this kinda comes full circle...
Take a look at the pro people. They don't give a rat's patoot what a horse is bred like if they can win with it. Guess what they're riding. FWF, FG, Jet Of Honor, out west we have a TON of Biankus bred horses. All these are mixed together and with racebred horses. People will ride what can win, even if it's a pintaloosaminiwalkamule.
Like you said once you've ridden one......I used to be one that believed that the bloodlines didn't matter that much. I was WRONG! I've had a lot of success riding horses of various pedigrees and enjoyed every minute of it. I didn't think it could get any better & figured there was no reason to ride the "name brand" horses. Then I rode a couple & sure got my eyes opened fast. The natural ability that they have is incredible...... |
|
| |
|
 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | It's an interesting arguement but, and I am not sure if this has been brought up yet, it seems a bit like claiming all horses should be capable of running a 90 speed index. Just not going to happen. |
|
| |
|
 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Okay so saying the training and jockey are competent- across the board- and you pick a bunch of random average horses in their prime and put them through the ringer, do I believe most would be 2D caliber? No.
There are way too many factors that make a horse what it is.
Some people are REALLY good at picking prospects and are equally good at training them, so they may make it look like any horse they pick up can become nice. However, what they are doing is weeding through all the ones that they chose not to buy, or not to train, so the ones that you end up seeing compete are the ones that made their cut.
My other thought is, 2D where? arena record where? Any arena can have an arena record. That is really relative to who is putting on the race, how many people are entering the race, and who is entering the race. people also can have their bubbles of comfort of where they go. you might be the big fish in a small pond, and never leave the pond to see how big the fish are in the ocean. It's pretty well understood that the difficulty of getting int he 2D can change from race to race depending on the added money and number of entries.
Edited by casualdust07 2014-01-08 9:31 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| casualdust07 - 2014-01-08 9:26 PM Okay so saying the training and jockey are competent- across the board- and you pick a bunch of random average horses in their prime and put them through the ringer, do I believe most would be 2D caliber? No. There are way too many factors that make a horse what it is. Some people are REALLY good at picking prospects and are equally good at training them, so they may make it look like any horse they pick up can become nice. However, what they are doing is weeding through all the ones that they chose not to buy, or not to train, so the ones that you end up seeing compete are the ones that made their cut. My other thought is, 2D where? arena record where? Any arena can have an arena record. That is really relative to who is putting on the race, how many people are entering the race, and who is entering the race. people also can have their bubbles of comfort of where they go. you might be the big fish in a small pond, and never leave the pond to see how big the fish are in the ocean. It's pretty well understood that the difficulty of getting int he 2D can change from race to race depending on the added money and number of entries.
The dude ranch horse I mentioned in my original post was running against 1 2013 NFR horse thats LOVED on here and a couple futurity winning horses too. We know who is fast and who isnt. |
|
| |
|
 Veteran
Posts: 148
| I have a great example of one with all the potential in the world that just wasn't that great. Had one that we raised that had a half brother and full sister that were outstanding in the arena and on the ranch this colt was built correct, could fly and extremely athletic. He was started right broke to death and would work the prettiest set of barrels you've ever seen only problem he had no heart and was consistently 3D. Every once in awhile the mood would hit him and he could go in and win a barrelrace with 200 plus entries by leaps and bounds he just didn't care to do it very often. I ended up selling him to a lady that wanted to go to local jackpots and trail ride she loves him and he is perfect for her but he just wasn't ever going to be what he should've been for me. |
|
| |
|
My mind still works
Posts: 8912
| I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOL |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| SaraJean - 2014-01-08 8:59 PM
OregonBR - 2014-01-08 7:28 PM Itsme - 2014-01-08 12:45 PM OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day. While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine. Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding? Interesting how this kinda comes full circle...
Take a look at the pro people. They don't give a rat's patoot what a horse is bred like if they can win with it. Guess what they're riding. FWF, FG, Jet Of Honor, out west we have a TON of Biankus bred horses. All these are mixed together and with racebred horses. People will ride what can win, even if it's a pintaloosaminiwalkamule.
My daughter jumped on a FG horse a few weeks ago that she has never ridden and clocked 1 place out of the 2D money, but that horse is a true 1D horse that has won some pretty big events. Like I said were not talking about winning 1D were talking about placing in the 2D. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:45 PM
I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOL
Im sorry but most horses aren't properly ridden or trained... |
|
| |
|
My mind still works
Posts: 8912
| Itsme - 2014-01-08 9:49 PM barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:45 PM I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOL Im sorry but most horses aren't properly ridden or trained...
We've all bought a bred out the A horse that didn't make it. Some are better hands than some others- true- but it still falls back on the horse too |
|
| |
|
 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | I don't agree. My husband has got 2 horses here that will run the prettiest patterns all day long and not be able to clock out of the 3D. And they are doing the best they can do. His mare has been bottom 2D a couple times but that is on her absolute best day. I don't care who rides them, they just aren't capable of going any faster than they already go.
Edited by rockinas 2014-01-08 10:05 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:53 PM
Itsme - 2014-01-08 9:49 PM barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:45 PM I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOL Im sorry but most horses aren't properly ridden or trained...
Agreed and I welcome all the thoughts and opinions on this. I figured I would just stir the pot a little and have some fun, it looks like I have some people that agree with me and a few more closet fans but most are on the other side.
 |
|
| |
|
Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:53 PM Itsme - 2014-01-08 9:49 PM barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:45 PM I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOL Im sorry but most horses aren't properly ridden or trained...
That's where we are at on Brett's two horses....they both flunked out for me, when I was prepping them for futurities. They are both very well bred....one's Frenchmans Guy & First Down Dash....he tries so hard but bless his heart his legs move fast but his body doesn't. The Royal Quick Dash mare he's got came off the track. She couldn't run there either but she tries. He has a lot of fun on them at the barrel races. He also shoots off of both of them too, and they are both actually high level shooting horses! But that's a totally different ballgame than barrel racing is. They are both super nice horses in their own way so I guess they don't all have to be 1D or 2D horses to make someone happy and go have fun with. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| rockinas - 2014-01-08 10:04 PM
I don't agree. My husband has got 2 horses here that will run the prettiest patterns all day long and not be able to clock out of the 3D. And they are doing the best they can do. His mare has been bottom 2D a couple times but that is on her absolute best day. I don't care who rides them, they just aren't capable of going any faster than they already go.
Firewater Finale looks amazing! |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Itsme - 2014-01-08 9:49 PM barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:45 PM I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOL Im sorry but most horses aren't properly ridden or trained...
I was thinking along the same lines. I guess I might insert the word "optimally" rather than "properly". I was thinking quarterhorses as well, not the other breeds. If an average QH with good conformation is really started with an excellent foundation, in terms of basic horsemanship and skills (ie: collection, handle, balance, bend, etc....) and then gets a good rider to pattern on, there's a pretty good chance that he can run at the top of the 2D. I obviously am not in a position to say with any authority, but that's how I see it. I guess what we are really talking about is if excellent training as a youngster and, later on, good, proper pattern work with a good jockey can make up for not having that highly sought after breeding. Good topic. |
|
| |
|
Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| Itsme - 2014-01-08 11:13 AM
Am I the only one who truly believes most horses with proper training and a competent jockey have the potential to be 2D? Im talking about sound, sane horses in their prime, not injured horses or horses that are 22 yo.
Ive seen a horse that was pulled off a dude ranch and he ran a tenth off an arena record and Ive seen plenty of ranch horses trained and running hard 1D-2D times.
Whats your thoughts on this?
I agree 100% |
|
| |
|
I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | I agree that most horses that we see are not running to their fullest potential, even when well started, trained and ridden by good hands. There are those people who can really get deep inside a horse and teach them to use themselves in a way that allows you to get every ounce of ability out of one. Most cannot. The other thing to remember is that when you have a horse using themselves in that manner, it takes a toll on them. I had a great little mare that just should never have been a barrel horse. She was built decently enough, she was intelligent enough, but barrel racing was certainly not what the breeding of this mare intended. Unfortunately for her, she ended up residing at my house and eating on my payroll, so she got patterned anyway.
She ended up being a decent local 2D horse. At a salty barrel race, she'd get you a 3D check. I remember having her with me while at a friend's house, who is also a trainer. We were riding one day, I sitting on said mare and I was saying how she was my favorite horse in the barn. He laughed and asked me how a little runt who couldn't outrun the 3D could be my favorite. She was my favorite because she was dead honest and above all she tried her little guts out. When you sent her up the alley, she gave you her life. She never set a foot wrong. She pushed her body to it's limits to get to the top of the 3D in good company.
Some of them can be given every advantage and just never amount to greatness in the pen. I'd still take a barn full of that mare over something that could either win it, or cheat me any day. |
|
| |
|
 Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| rockinas - 2014-01-08 10:04 PM I don't agree. My husband has got 2 horses here that will run the prettiest patterns all day long and not be able to clock out of the 3D. And they are doing the best they can do. His mare has been bottom 2D a couple times but that is on her absolute best day. I don't care who rides them, they just aren't capable of going any faster than they already go.
Agree 100%. Stacy's Grasshopper fell into this category........I thought when I was starting him, he would be one of the great ones. WELL, he was great, just not a 1D horse. He did fall into the 1 or 2 D on occasion if the big dogs hit a barrel or stayed home.....
We have ridden some horses on the ranch that probably could not have even been 5D horses. They were bred for good feet, and the ability to stay fat on rocks. They would not have had the capability to run any farther than to catch a wooly sheep if their life depended on it. |
|
| |
|
 I Want a "MAN"
Posts: 3610
Location: MD | Next time you go to a barrel race with each rider imagine how much different that run would be if LG were riding that same horse.
Edited by CE's wrapn3 2014-01-09 7:12 AM
|
|
| |
|
You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Itsme - 2014-01-08 9:40 PM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-08 9:26 PM Okay so saying the training and jockey are competent- across the board- and you pick a bunch of random average horses in their prime and put them through the ringer, do I believe most would be 2D caliber? No. There are way too many factors that make a horse what it is. Some people are REALLY good at picking prospects and are equally good at training them, so they may make it look like any horse they pick up can become nice. However, what they are doing is weeding through all the ones that they chose not to buy, or not to train, so the ones that you end up seeing compete are the ones that made their cut. My other thought is, 2D where? arena record where? Any arena can have an arena record. That is really relative to who is putting on the race, how many people are entering the race, and who is entering the race. people also can have their bubbles of comfort of where they go. you might be the big fish in a small pond, and never leave the pond to see how big the fish are in the ocean. It's pretty well understood that the difficulty of getting int he 2D can change from race to race depending on the added money and number of entries.
The dude ranch horse I mentioned in my original post was running against 1 2013 NFR horse thats LOVED on here and a couple futurity winning horses too. We know who is fast and who isnt.
that is my point. when you say so and so broke an arena record, you have to say more than that. Or people will then ask you for the specifics
Edited by casualdust07 2014-01-09 7:23 AM
|
|
| |
|
You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I do agree with you in the fact that there are a lot of horses who are not ridden to their potential, or exercised and are in their best physical condition. But I also get a little uncomfortable about saying that most horses at the barrel race aren't being ridden the right way, like, who am I to judge? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| CE's wrapn3 - 2014-01-09 7:07 AM
Next time you go to a barrel race with each rider imagine how much different that run would be if LG were riding that same horse.
Or any of the top WPRA girls. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| CE's wrapn3 - 2014-01-09 5:07 AM
Next time you go to a barrel race with each rider imagine how much different that run would be if LG were riding that same horse.
Who is LG? |
|
| |
|
Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Soooo if I pull my neighbors donkey out of the pasture and run him on the pattern....does that mean he'll be a 2D donkey?? I mean he's sound, and sane LOL |
|
| |
|
Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | 3 To Go - 2014-01-09 4:02 PM CE's wrapn3 - 2014-01-09 5:07 AM Next time you go to a barrel race with each rider imagine how much different that run would be if LG were riding that same horse. Who is LG?
Lance Graves |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-09 4:05 PM
Soooo if I pull my neighbors donkey out of the pasture and run him on the pattern....does that mean he'll be a 2D donkey?? I mean he's sound, and sane LOL
FG or DTF donk cross= Fo sho!
Edited by Itsme 2014-01-09 4:41 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Sexy Bee Yacht
Posts: 5849
Location: WA | I didn't read all the reponses but I don't think they all could be. I had a paint mare that tried her heart out and she thought she was wining every time out and wasn't more than a 4D horse. She was great for beginners and I can throw anyone on her. But she isn't built for it and just isn't quick. |
|
| |
|
Sexy Bee Yacht
Posts: 5849
Location: WA | bennie1 - 2014-01-08 6:56 PM The system is also flooded with diesel pickups. Why, one might ask? Because they are the right tool for the job. Certain bloodlines are proven to replicate certain traits with consistancy. Then the people to whom these traits are desirable seek out these bloodlines creating a market that follows the laws of supply and demand. The cutters aren't buying up Storm Cats to take to the cutting pen. Breeding tells in horses, dogs and women....LOL,
A Storm Cat horse almost sent me to the hospital (It should have, but I didn't want to sit in the waiting room). So no way in hell am I riding a Storm Cat horse again. Lol. Is that unfair to all of them? Yes. Do I care? No.  |
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 422
Location: Fort Bragg North Carolina | Disagree HOWEVER I believe there are more riders out there who don't help their horses reach their potential due to lack of knowledge,aggressiveness,etc |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | Interesting discussion :)
I disagree.
I agree that most riders don't have the ability to fully tap into all their horses ability & have them give 100% of everything they have all of the time. There are some horses who love it, some who tolerate it, and some who hate it. Aside from that some horses are built for the sport better then other horses are giving them an advantage. Just like some people are better athletes then others regardless of equal training.
Some just have God given talent and the job comes easy, others have to work hard for it. There are some that will be 1D/2D horses and then there are some that will only be top 3D/4D horses when in shape, in their prime, and on good ground.
But the ones who give you their best every run they make are the ones who are fun to ride, regardless if they are 1D or 4D.
|
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 357
| This is going to stir the pot more but I must ad with the right mix of DRUGS. I agree!
I stood beside a well known rider by the ring and could see the needle marks in the horses neck.
Dont get me wrong not all 1d horses or riders do this but have seen way to much of it. |
|
| |
|
 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | CE's wrapn3 - 2014-01-08 8:07 AM Next time you go to a barrel race with each rider imagine how much different that run would be if LG were riding that same horse.
Some horses are just not as fast as others......and many 3d 4d horses run a smoother more correct pattern than many that out run them.....why because the other horse is faster......it does not matter who sits on them............ |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
| bbennington - 2014-01-22 7:51 PM
This is going to stir the pot more but I must ad with the right mix of DRUGS. I agree!
I stood beside a well known rider by the ring and could see the needle marks in the horses neck.
Dont get me wrong not all 1d horses or riders do this but have seen way to much of it.
What do you think theyre injecting? |
|
| |
|
 Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: SoCal | I'm a maybe on this one. I have To say I think it depends a lot on natural ability, which you can't train in, as well as heart and try. If they have ability and try you are well on your way. My young mare has outrun state and world champions (state rodeo, breed world shows type things) in some events and in barrels she just hasn't clicked yet. Shes cowbred on the top and running and ranch horses on the bottom, all her aunts were top rodeo and barrel horses in our state. She can have the ugliest turns and fight me and still win money at a huge barrel race in the 4D because of the failure, coasting the pattern correctly she's in the top of the 3D. If we actually got ourselves together she'd glide into 2D if not 1D. Ive had people look at me like I'm crazy when I say we're not 1D. Do we have our stuff together right now? Nope. We're still getting our styles matched up, figuring out what we need to do. She's still being seasoned and is young and can slip up if I don't cue correctly. I sure hope we get where we're heading someday, but in the mean time I'm just happy to have her.
I also think that pattern size can influence what "D" you fall in. Some horses won't do small patterns, some can't hold the speed in large. My mare is by far a better small pattern horse because she's small and catty. But I've seen tall and big horses that are 1D on big patterns not be able to break a trot on small patterns. 1D one place might be 3D at another. Here we have a lot of pros hit up our small jackpots, and I know myself, especially on more common patterns I'll look at what the pros run to see what I'd fall in against them, rather than the local weekenders. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| I think most horses have 2D potential if they stick to the same local arenas. If you take a horse out of that comfortable and familiar environment then most horses will drop down into 3-4D times. I see some horse ads that state "2D locally, 3D at super shows." I assume the super or larger shows are probably not local. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 357
| Itsme - 2014-01-23 9:25 AM
bbennington - 2014-01-22 7:51 PM
This is going to stir the pot more but I must ad with the right mix of DRUGS. I agree!
I stood beside a well known rider by the ring and could see the needle marks in the horses neck.
Dont get me wrong not all 1d horses or riders do this but have seen way to much of it.
What do you think theyre injecting?
I honestly have no idea. I m not into that whole thing. I have seen and heard it to many times. When there is a cooler left in the alley of the stall barn full of empty needles right in front of well known barrel racer , mostly likely open winner stalls.. ask our vet about it he just says there combinations out there but have to be just right or will kill the horse.
But it will never stop even if they drug test they will always get around it. Just wish it was an even fair playing field. Sadly never will be but I am ok with placing in 1d or 2d honestly. |
|
| |
|
 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | spitzh - 2014-01-24 12:02 PM I think most horses have 2D potential if they stick to the same local arenas. If you take a horse out of that comfortable and familiar environment then most horses will drop down into 3-4D times. I see some horse ads that state "2D locally, 3D at super shows." I assume the super or larger shows are probably not local.
I don't think it's that so much as a lot of local races are not as tough. Totally depends on where you are and who you're running against. |
|
| |
|
 Night Chat Leader
Posts: 13150
Location: Home....Smiling M Farms | I'm going to have to say no. Not every horse is born with the same athletic ability. For some it's there and for others, it just isn't. I had a super nice little mare years ago, she would run her heart out, give 100% every time, she couldn't outrun a fast sick porcupine. She just didn't have the gas.
You can't train what the good Lord didn't give. |
|
| |
|
Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I see a lot of things that stop a horse from being 1-d/2-d like you will see somthing that says never been injected, i know a girl that has a big gelding, she also,had a really nice 1-d mare she never would get her or him injected she the mare and the gelding slowed down so he would be more comfortable as well,as the mare did. So if these horse had a lamness exam and injected the sore joints and put on a good joint suppliment. i told,the girl about getting her mare injected she went and bought legend instead of injection did not,fix the mare. The gelding has a slight asthma and themhorse got,so,sore he getting nervous. The owner said,he was crazy, she did,get his hocks injected he ran a lot better, but if the horse was treated for ulcers i know he had them and his hocks injected again that horse will run faster. There is a difference in 1-d and 3-d mentalitiy the 1-d know when ther horse is not up to par and carry horse to vet. I did the same for my horse he has been to 3 vets and finally diagoned with one fusing hock and he is not running up to his potential once we get it fused he will be back to 1-d. But if youmrun a horse that is sore for,years the horse will just learn not,to:-)hurt his self. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
| I think we are going to see more of a difference of natural ability as the breeding industry keeps selecting the best and breeding FOR barrels. For example, look at how often records are being broken now, rare are the backyard ponys who will be able to compete against years of careful breeding, even if they have a huge heart. I think heart still matter a lot, along with rider ability but, why start with a horse not made to do the job, most people have figured out that it's easier to ask a horse that has correct barrel conformation to learn the pettern and do well then a hienz 57 who probably doesn't.
All that said I think that if you have a well built, hard working ranch horse, that can get down and turn and has the speed, giver! Lots of people want a dash ta fame, but honestly I think, "do you have the ability to bring out the best in one?"
I buy well bred horses, but I don't get obsessive about it, I am not sure my riding ability is worthy of spending sooo much and it's still not aguarentee that we will be pro...: |
|
| |
|
Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | bbennington - 2014-01-24 12:29 PM Itsme - 2014-01-23 9:25 AM bbennington - 2014-01-22 7:51 PM This is going to stir the pot more but I must ad with the right mix of DRUGS. I agree! I stood beside a well known rider by the ring and could see the needle marks in the horses neck. Dont get me wrong not all 1d horses or riders do this but have seen way to much of it. What do you think theyre injecting? I honestly have no idea. I m not into that whole thing. I have seen and heard it to many times. When there is a cooler left in the alley of the stall barn full of empty needles right in front of well known barrel racer , mostly likely open winner stalls.. ask our vet about it he just says there combinations out there but have to be just right or will kill the horse. But it will never stop even if they drug test they will always get around it. Just wish it was an even fair playing field. Sadly never will be but I am ok with placing in 1d or 2d honestly.
Not to pick on you but it kind of irritates me when people see a needle and jump to the worse possible conclusion. My gelding developed some respiratory issues last year and for the first time I had to run a horse on lasix. Suddenly I was the one sticking a horse and getting eyeballed like I must be shooting speed. Why don't you ask the person what they are giving? Yes, there are people out there shooting their horses with stuff they shouldn't be. If you ask and they won't tell you I think then it is safe to jump to the worst possible conclusion but there are plenty that have a moral compass. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 357
| AllAroundRider - 2014-01-26 8:27 AM
bbennington - 2014-01-24 12:29 PM Itsme - 2014-01-23 9:25 AM bbennington - 2014-01-22 7:51 PM This is going to stir the pot more but I must ad with the right mix of DRUGS. I agree! I stood beside a well known rider by the ring and could see the needle marks in the horses neck. Dont get me wrong not all 1d horses or riders do this but have seen way to much of it. What do you think theyre injecting? I honestly have no idea. I m not into that whole thing. I have seen and heard it to many times. When there is a cooler left in the alley of the stall barn full of empty needles right in front of well known barrel racer , mostly likely open winner stalls.. ask our vet about it he just says there combinations out there but have to be just right or will kill the horse. But it will never stop even if they drug test they will always get around it. Just wish it was an even fair playing field. Sadly never will be but I am ok with placing in 1d or 2d honestly.
It is a well know fact that they are.. Not jumping to conclusions.. I was stalled right next to them.. Im not talking about Lasix at all!.. |
|
| |
|
Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| bbennington - 2014-01-26 11:04 AM AllAroundRider - 2014-01-26 8:27 AM bbennington - 2014-01-24 12:29 PM Itsme - 2014-01-23 9:25 AM bbennington - 2014-01-22 7:51 PM This is going to stir the pot more but I must ad with the right mix of DRUGS. I agree! I stood beside a well known rider by the ring and could see the needle marks in the horses neck. Dont get me wrong not all 1d horses or riders do this but have seen way to much of it. What do you think theyre injecting? I honestly have no idea. I m not into that whole thing. I have seen and heard it to many times. When there is a cooler left in the alley of the stall barn full of empty needles right in front of well known barrel racer , mostly likely open winner stalls.. ask our vet about it he just says there combinations out there but have to be just right or will kill the horse. But it will never stop even if they drug test they will always get around it. Just wish it was an even fair playing field. Sadly never will be but I am ok with placing in 1d or 2d honestly. It is a well know fact that they are.. Not jumping to conclusions.. I was stalled right next to them.. Im not talking about Lasix at all!..
But you inferred that all horse who had a "needle" mark were run on something against the rules...........I know it happens, it will continue to happen. To judge someone because of a needle mark that may be administering a theraputic medication however, is wrong. |
|
| |
|
Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| There is injected bute as well... |
|
| |
They all have 2D potential...