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Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | Soo my Hemi gelding is just not where I want him to be as in his body condition or size. He is a 7 year old this year. I don't expect him to be stout or anything but I just feel like he could fill out more than he is. I don't know if it's just because I'm used to the more stout type horses but he is very lanky and thin. No ribs showing or anything but just not where I feel he should be. I've been feeding beet pulp but he doesn't like it so I don't give him as much as I should because he barely eats what he gets. He has alfalfa hay at least 3 times a day and is fed a full scoop of rolled oats mixed with molasses from the feed mill. I have been suspecting him of having ulcers and I have been feeding U-gard supplement for the last few months and I see a major difference in his attitude but not in his body. Any suggestions on how to help him fill out a little more? I can attach pictures this evening.
Edited by lexyy12 2014-01-09 7:55 PM
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 Midget Lover
  
Location: Kentucky | If you suspect ulcers, I would nix the molasses. I would put him on a good senior feed. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Murphy - 2014-01-08 3:18 PM
If you suspect ulcers, I would nix the molasses. I would put him on a good senior feed.
Ditto to above.
Also, really look at his topline and especially out over the top of his hips. Horses that are in good condition for work/competition will be full in their muscle all along this region (regardless of how much fat is packed over the ribs). This area is a good indicator of "need" of a change in the diet to help them gain or lose accordingly. |
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Expert
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Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | lindseylou2290 - 2014-01-08 4:45 PM Murphy - 2014-01-08 3:18 PM If you suspect ulcers, I would nix the molasses. I would put him on a good senior feed. Ditto to above. Also, really look at his topline and especially out over the top of his hips. Horses that are in good condition for work/competition will be full in their muscle all along this region (regardless of how much fat is packed over the ribs ). This area is a good indicator of "need" of a change in the diet to help them gain or lose accordingly.
That's exactly what I'm referring to! I really feel his top line and his hip area really isn't where I think it could be. I'm off work in a half hour and I will go and get a few good pictires
of him.
Edited by lexyy12 2014-01-08 3:52 PM
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Ours get fat on alfalfa, so I'd be concerned that the quality of hay isn't as good or that something else is going on with your horse. How much hay are you feeding? Ours get 10lbs morning and night. Several years ago I had a horse that I suspected had ulcers based on his behavior (very hot, pacing his stall, very slow to eat) and condition (thinner than I'd like, duller looking coat). I began treating him and saw an almost immediate difference. If your horse has ulcers, figuring out what is causing them is important. Have you treated him for sand? If they've got sand in their gut it's going to cause problems. Are there any pain issues? That's going to lead to ulcers as well. My horse was sore, so I treated for ulcers as well as treating the pain issue. As soon as I got the ulcers under control my gelding immediately began cleaning up his feed and quit pacing his stall. His coat started looking better and he began putting on weight.
What about worming, is he on a good rotation schedule? How are his teeth? Just some other ideas that might be part of the problem. |
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Expert
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Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | Jenbabe - 2014-01-08 6:54 PM Ours get fat on alfalfa, so I'd be concerned that the quality of hay isn't as good or that something else is going on with your horse. How much hay are you feeding? Ours get 10lbs morning and night. Several years ago I had a horse that I suspected had ulcers based on his behavior (very hot, pacing his stall, very slow to eat) and condition (thinner than I'd like, duller looking coat). I began treating him and saw an almost immediate difference. If your horse has ulcers, figuring out what is causing them is important. Have you treated him for sand? If they've got sand in their gut it's going to cause problems. Are there any pain issues? That's going to lead to ulcers as well. My horse was sore, so I treated for ulcers as well as treating the pain issue. As soon as I got the ulcers under control my gelding immediately began cleaning up his feed and quit pacing his stall. His coat started looking better and he began putting on weight. What about worming, is he on a good rotation schedule? How are his teeth? Just some other ideas that might be part of the problem.
We got our hay right out of the field this summer. He has been on different hay the last couple years and the hay doesn't change it. He eats all of his food up, has had his teeth done, we don't have sand around here that could get in his belly. Before I started treated ulcers for him he was very angsty all the time and would weave constantly if I didn't have him doing something. Once I started treating them he stopped weaving almost completely and his attitude is way better. This summer he was seen by a lameness vet because he was refusing the 2nd which he still does but they found nothing. |
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Expert
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Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | Here are some pictures. He is dirty, his hair is weird lookimg since I have a blanket on him. Let me know what you think about him.
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Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | Looking at these pictures I think I'm just not used to his type of build. I've always had horses that were built big and he is long and lean. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 631
Location: Somewhere in N.C. | Forco |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 733
| I don't think he looks that bad. I would put him on some Forco and a good oil like Cocosoya oil, that has always helped mine when I just want a little extra on them. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
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| 3 lbs of alfalfa pellets twice a day and 1 lb of rice bran twice a day. Rice bran is the bomb. |
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Expert
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Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | classicpotatochip - 2014-01-09 10:26 PM 3 lbs of alfalfa pellets twice a day and 1 lb of rice bran twice a day. Rice bran is the bomb.
I was actually thinking about trying the rice bran. I've never used it before but have heard good things. I'm thinking of going that route to see if he will eat that better. I have no doubt he would look amazing on beet pulp but he refuses to eat it. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | How many lbs is he getting on oats.. and Id add a FAT supplement. |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | Add Lysine or THE Muscle Mass.
Worked wonders on my mare without changing anything else. She filled out within 3 weeks.
Also, I would suggest some ulcer meds. |
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Expert
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Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | Bibliafarm - 2014-01-09 10:42 PM How many lbs is he getting on oats.. and Id add a FAT supplement.
He get 6 pounds a day. |
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Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | Some Horses just dont do well on oats alone.they fail to thrive and lose topline and look run down and hard to develop muscles..if hes worked daily hard some tend to lose weight easy..
. The protein is ok since he gets Alfalfa.. but he needs a added supplement for minerals and vitamins.. also oats are low in FAT.. 5%.. to me that is not enough for any horse. Id add fat.. of some kind..
Molasses id get rid of. |
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Expert
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Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | What supplement would you recommend? |
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Location: Wyoming- where its always windy! | nccowgirl - 2014-01-09 7:47 PM Forco
I second this. I have an 18 year old gelding I've owned for 10 years. Never, even in his fattest or fittest shape has he had a nice top line. Started him on Forco and he's filled in behind his withers and has a much better top line bAnd he's not any fatter than normal. I've been beyond impressed with it! |
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Expert
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Location: Bandera, TX | Do you see him cleaning up his alfalfa? Do you feed his alfalfa prior to your oats? If you've feed alfalfa 30 min. prior to the oats do you notice him cleaning up/finishing the oats?
HGA Hind Gut Acidosis could be at play here as well as a stomach ulcer.
If starch isn't digested in the small intestines then it travels on into the hindgut where it can cause a microbial explosion resulting in acidity, lactic acid is irritating to the gut and decreases the pH. If this becomes chronic you will see the results in a non thriving dull appearing horse.
Starch intake should be limited to 250g in concentrate feeding, per recommendations of studies done here and abroad.
To slow starch digestion down the addition of beet pulp or feeding of "hays" will increase the prececal digestion rate. This is a positive!
You've gotten some good advice, I can tell you from personal experience with several horses that you can throw numerous supplements at the problem but until you make feeding adjustments then your probably not going to see a long term change for the better. I'm not telling you to stop the supplement and I would in-fact treat him with omeprazole if he has a gastric ulcer. If they have signs of HGA then treat with Equishur and/or Forco. Long term return to health must be made with a feed change.
There is nothing that drives my husband more batty than to have to feed 10 horses differently but you know what that is sometimes what it takes to keep a horse healthy.
For now, quit feeding him the high starch and glycemic feeds. To go with that, I'm a believer in soy causing inflammation and I would stop soy products as well to a horse that has a compromised gastric lining.
Try as some have stated above alfalfa pellets, rice and/or coconut meal, beet pulp and flax. Go to your local mill and get the lysine that was recommended- I would ask the nutritionist at the mill for a proper dose.
Get a mineral supplement that is specific to your region. Work with your vet and/or a local nutritionist on developing a feeding program for him. I will send in my feeds and my custom grain mixes to be analyzed that way I know what is lacking or possibly in excess in my horses diets. |
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 The One
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Location: South Georgia | lexyy12 - 2014-01-09 11:46 PM What supplement would you recommend?
Cool Calories is the highest fat percentage supplement out there. It is dehydrated vegetable oil. I'd add that. However, I am not a fan of oats. I prefer a feed such as Ultium that is low starch and high fat. |
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 Tough Patooty
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Location: Sperry, OK | lexyy12 - 2014-01-08 3:16 PM Soo my Hemi gelding is just not where I want him to be as in his body condition or size. He is a 7 year old this year. I don't expect him to be stout or anything but I just feel like he could fill out more than he is. I don't know if it's just because I'm used to the more stout type horses but he is very lanky and thin. No ribs showing or anything but just not where I feel he should be. I've been feeding beet pulp but he doesn't like it so I don't give him as much as I should because he barely eats what he gets. He has alfalfa hay at least 3 times a day and is fed a full scoop of rolled oats mixed with molasses from the feed mill. I have been suspecting him of having ulcers and I have been feeding U-gard supplement for the last few months and I see a major difference in his attitude but not in his body. Any suggestions on how to help him fill out a little more? I can attach pictures this evening. I would change my feed all together. With oats and molasses, he isn't getting anything but sugar and startch, no real fat or protein to speak of, except what he gets from the alfalfa. Most horses don't utilize/digest oast well and they get very little nutrition from them. Start by changing him over to a real "feed" and see how he does.
Edited by ACEINTHEHOLE 2014-01-10 8:25 AM
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
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Location: North Dakota | If I were you I would trying upping his grain to 8# a day and adding rice bran- 1-2# it is high fat low mass type feed that most horses like. I am wondering if you are using this horse? If so, I think he looks pretty good, it takes a lot in the winter to keep one looking good while riding/training. The cool calories is good too but sometimes horses don't like the "fake sweet" smell that it has.
Maybe change your horses eating situation- instead of in a stall perhaps put him at a bucket across from another horses pen or tie him-I have a gelding that needs to feel like he's "stealing" his food or else he paws/flings his bucket and pretty much doesn't eat. Now I put his ration in a tub right next to where I'm mixing everyone elses feed and he eats like theres no tomorrow.-quirky booger! |
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Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | I would change to but I didnt think she has a choice , if so go with triple crown. |
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Posts: 1857
| classicpotatochip - 2014-01-09 9:26 PM
3 lbs of alfalfa pellets twice a day and 1 lb of rice bran twice a day. Rice bran is the bomb.
Rice bran can do wonders for a horse! |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Bibliafarm - 2014-01-10 10:31 AM I would change to but I didnt think she has a choice , if so go with triple crown. I agree. TC Senior already has rice bran in it. I would stop mixing a bunch of supplements and just do the alfalfa and TC Senior. Just keep is simple.
Edited by Murphy 2014-01-10 9:49 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| lexyy12 - 2014-01-08 3:51 PM
lindseylou2290 - 2014-01-08 4:45 PM Murphy - 2014-01-08 3:18 PM If you suspect ulcers, I would nix the molasses. I would put him on a good senior feed. Ditto to above. Also, really look at his topline and especially out over the top of his hips. Horses that are in good condition for work/competition will be full in their muscle all along this region (regardless of how much fat is packed over the ribs ). This area is a good indicator of "need" of a change in the diet to help them gain or lose accordingly.
of him.
Gotcha ... The pictures don't look horrid, and by that I mean you are at the front end of an issue and being proactive about your approach, so good job! He does look like he could use some fill over his withers. Try more fat in his diet, Forco is good at filling toplines, especially near the withers. You got this!! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| For the skinny horses I get, I slowly introduce the change in feed to them.
When they are on full feed they are getting
2lbs of oats, whole as rolled begins to loose nutritional content
2 lbs of barley, soaked I soak after measuring
1 cup of whole flax, I grind just before I give
1 cup of land and sea oil (fish and flax)
1/2 cup red cell
I give this to them twice per day
Mine also get free choice hay, then I add approx 10 lbs of alfalfa |
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Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | I really want to try and keep the oats right now...
he he isn't being ridden right now but I just upped his gain not too long ago and have been giving more hay. I want to try the rice bran for him right now.
He is a huge pig! He has no problem eating!
Also, I have alfalfa cubes....could I give him those in place of the pellets? |
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