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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
   
Location: Missouri | What do you do for your cold-backed horses? My 4 y/o is home from the trainer and he warned me that he is still cold-backed. He's not a bronc, but he can be down right nasty! If I ride him daily, he's easy and agreeable, skip a few days and he's a nut case. He has a constant hump under the saddle, will turn around with his mouth gaped and bite (attack!) my feet, he humps up, freezes up, hops around, and acts like he doesn't know anything (leans on the bit, tries to escape, etc). To make it worse, he's big and intimidating. If I pony him or send him around in the round pen first, it doesn't last as long. He's obviously worse in this cold weather, plus my rides are pretty infrequent.
Opinions on how to handle one like this? I feel like I can get around him okay, but I'm looking for fresh ideas and maybe hope that he'll come out of this???
His last 30 days were spent doing ranch work. My plan was to get a better handle on him and eventually start him on the pattern.
Edited by just4fun 2014-01-08 10:17 PM
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 Super PIckle
Location: Where ever | Lots of round pen time before you ride an saddled all day if possible! Might want to treat for ulcers also.
Edited by drpepper 2014-01-08 10:11 PM
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | I've got one that will have a hump in his back if not warmed up, he's never actually bucked with me on his back but he'll round up to where there's an awful lot of air there! With him the best thing to do is just a little lunging, but not the simple chase him in circles to get tired version, the get the mind thinking style. I just send him off at a trot & do a ton of direction changes, sometimes asking him to bring his front end through, other times asking him to change direction by moving his hip. When he hasn't been ridden for a while he'll screw around a bit but it doesn't take long to get his mind focused, then the hump in his back goes away & he rides off like the old broke gelding he is! |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | Have you tested for PSSM? I have read a lot of them are cold-backed and follow yours' MO of working well if consistantly worked and not so well when not consistantly worked. Also have you checked feet? foot soreness can be another cause.
Besides that, I am not sure what else to do but ground work and wet saddle pads. |
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My mind still works
Posts: 8912
| My old mare that I retired many years ago was like this. She's the one I remember most. Lots of walking, then trotting - if she was still humpy, then back to a walk and Finally long trotting than would lope her. Often havin to break back down to the previous gait. I never gave up on her because she could seriously clock.
I had to go get her out of the pasture a few weeks ago and almost made the mistake of jumping on her bareback and riding her back up since I was in the back 20. I jumped to get on her and reality set in real fast and I landed back on the ground. She never Really got over it so I was like....ooops, wrong horse to be doing that with LOL |
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 Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
Location: Dearing, GA | We own the same horse. Test for PSSM, treat for ulcers, have a chiro look at him, and after that just lunge him before you get on. Out of curiousity how is he bred? |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Just Let Me Run - 2014-01-08 11:10 PM We own the same horse. Test for PSSM, treat for ulcers, have a chiro look at him, and after that just lunge him before you get on. Out of curiousity how is he bred?
He's by a Judys Lineage son out of a foundation QH mare.
Thanks for the replies. He was wretched tonight, got a little scary actually. My last ride on him was a week ago and he was a puppy dog. I took him to a friends, somewhere he'd never been, hopped on and didn't get an ounce of attitude. I know he needs more consistency, but the weather hasnt cooperated. |
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | This sounds like classic PSSM! The reason they "behave" better when exercised daily is because they hurt less. Please read my PSSM thread to understand how it can affect them. Good luck!
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=433695&start=1 |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | SaraJean - 2014-01-08 10:12 PM
I've got one that will have a hump in his back if not warmed up, he's never actually bucked with me on his back but he'll round up to where there's an awful lot of air there! With him the best thing to do is just a little lunging, but not the simple chase him in circles to get tired version, the get the mind thinking style. I just send him off at a trot & do a ton of direction changes, sometimes asking him to bring his front end through, other times asking him to change direction by moving his hip. When he hasn't been ridden for a while he'll screw around a bit but it doesn't take long to get his mind focused, then the hump in his back goes away & he rides off like the old broke gelding he is!
I have a duplicate to your gelding and I do the same thing as you. He`s an absolute doll once the hump is gone. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 371
| It could be more muscular than just an attitude problem. My gelding would kick when you put a saddle on him (especially on chilly days) & crowhop when you'd first get on him. The only thing I found to work was warming up a rice bag & letting it sit on his back for 5-10 mins.
My mare has the same problem sometimes & I use thermaflex on her back, I just wait like 10mins before I saddle. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| HERDA does that, too. Especially with the foundation breeding, I'd send off for a test. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1100
Location: Southeastern Idaho | I sold mine....I have had one to many wrecks and can't get hurt badly again. Not worth it. Sold mine with full disclosure and took a beating. Had a lot of money in him. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 631
Location: Somewhere in N.C. | You could try the BOT saddle pad liner. It may help?
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I Really Love Jeans
Posts: 3173
Location: North Dakota | Horses like this need a constant job with a rider that will not let them get away with ANYTHING! Round pen him and ride him daily. If you don't have time send him to a feedlot or a ranch and let him spend a full year with daily work. He will be a different horse when he comes home! |
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 Sexy Bee Yacht
Posts: 5849
Location: WA | I have a OTTB that is like this. She isn't going to bog her head and bronc, but she isn't going to work at all for you if she isn't worked 4 days out of the week. So when I can't do that (my main barrel horse gets the attn first, then her), I have to go back to lunging her to get the excess energy off her. First day just lunging, second day lunging, maybe riding, then back to lunging/riding. By the 3rd/4th day, I can just jump on and work. Although she always takes longer to get "warmed up," I usually have a sane riding horse after a couple days back of lunging. Not her fault, mine. But there is only so much time in the day. |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | annemarea - 2014-01-09 5:12 AM This sounds like classic PSSM! The reason they "behave" better when exercised daily is because they hurt less. Please read my PSSM thread to understand how it can affect them. Good luck!
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid...
I found your thread last night. Great read and super informative! I will have him tested. Thanks for the info.
Thanks to all who posted! |
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Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
Location: Dearing, GA | just4fun - 2014-01-09 11:27 AM
annemarea - 2014-01-09 5:12 AM This sounds like classic PSSM! The reason they "behave" better when exercised daily is because they hurt less. Please read my PSSM thread to understand how it can affect them. Good luck!
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid...
I found your thread last night. Great read and super informative! I will have him tested. Thanks for the info.
Thanks to all who posted! |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Just Let Me Run - 2014-01-09 11:35 AM just4fun - 2014-01-09 11:27 AM annemarea - 2014-01-09 5:12 AM This sounds like classic PSSM! The reason they "behave" better when exercised daily is because they hurt less. Please read my PSSM thread to understand how it can affect them. Good luck!
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid... I found your thread last night. Great read and super informative! I will have him tested. Thanks for the info.
Thanks to all who posted!
Also, what's the best way to go yanking out 40 tail hairs?! Ouch! lol! One at a time? A few at once? |
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Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
Location: Dearing, GA | just4fun - 2014-01-09 12:16 PM
Just Let Me Run - 2014-01-09 11:35 AM just4fun - 2014-01-09 11:27 AM annemarea - 2014-01-09 5:12 AM This sounds like classic PSSM! The reason they "behave" better when exercised daily is because they hurt less. Please read my PSSM thread to understand how it can affect them. Good luck!
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid... I found your thread last night. Great read and super informative! I will have him tested. Thanks for the info.
Thanks to all who posted!
Also, what's the best way to go yanking out 40 tail hairs?! Ouch! lol! One at a time? A few at once? |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | nccowgirl - 2014-01-09 8:39 AM You could try the BOT saddle pad liner. It may help?
If he sticks around, I may try this! I
feel like he needs to "earn" his keep a little...as in quit being so stinking sour and give me a reason to at least like him! lol! I haven't even bought the poor fella his own winter blanket...it's commical to see his booty hanging out of the one he's using.
I'll give him the advantage of the genetic test, b/c I have felt recently that something is "off" with him. I even thought about EPM, but not totally convinced...
Edited by just4fun 2014-01-09 12:28 PM
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Member
Posts: 7
| I had one like this. Before I sent him to a trainer he actually bucked with me every time I got on. With the trainer he never did, but as soon as I would get on him and would get the hump in his back. So I got where as soon as I got on I would immediately start turning circles one way and then the other. Just keeping his feet and mind busy. After a few circles, he would loose the hump and would be a nice ride. And I never round penned him before riding either. (In the past it hadn't worked with him. I also like one that you can just get on and go.) |
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Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | just4fun - 2014-01-09 12:16 PM Just Let Me Run - 2014-01-09 11:35 AM just4fun - 2014-01-09 11:27 AM annemarea - 2014-01-09 5:12 AM This sounds like classic PSSM! The reason they "behave" better when exercised daily is because they hurt less. Please read my PSSM thread to understand how it can affect them. Good luck!
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid... I found your thread last night. Great read and super informative! I will have him tested. Thanks for the info.
Thanks to all who posted!
Also, what's the best way to go yanking out 40 tail hairs?! Ouch! lol! One at a time? A few at once? |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | Might also want to check for kissing spine disease. |
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Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | I go to ground work too to get their mind on you...safer too. The ground work is all about respect, pay attention, and do what I say now. This does help when mounted. You know some will forget this bucking in time. It is a lot of work for them, like one who scares and bolts. I would then go to Clinton Anderson's methods. Giving to pressure, fase, front end, back end, backing. Then start out these moves when mounted. All the desentsifing on the ground too. |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | skye - 2014-01-09 4:55 PM I go to ground work too to get their mind on you...safer too. The ground work is all about respect, pay attention, and do what I say now. This does help when mounted. You know some will forget this bucking in time. It is a lot of work for them, like one who scares and bolts. I would then go to Clinton Anderson's methods. Giving to pressure, fase, front end, back end, backing. Then start out these moves when mounted. All the desentsifing on the ground too.
This is where I'm a little confused... if I start off bending, and asking for body parts, I'm a little afraid he'll split in two! I usually start off by letting him move around first, without picking at him, then slowly start asking for more. I'm not sure which is best? |
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Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | mreklaw - 2014-01-09 2:40 PM Might also want to check for kissing spine disease.
Have you had one checked? Do they just do xrays or? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | AllAroundRider - 2014-01-09 5:23 PM mreklaw - 2014-01-09 2:40 PM Might also want to check for kissing spine disease. Have you had one checked? Do they just do xrays or?
Before I ever biopsied my gelding, I did x-rays for kissing spine because he was more reactive to having his withers touched than my mare. My mare was more reactive to having her "lower back" touched/groomed. But, he was clean. That's when I decided to biopsy him. |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | AllAroundRider - 2014-01-09 5:23 PM
mreklaw - 2014-01-09 2:40 PM Might also want to check for kissing spine disease.
Have you had one checked? Do they just do xrays or?
Yes they do X-rays. Mine did have it. Started injecting and it helped a lot. No more bucking . |
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | In reference to the groundwork, Stacy Westfall (on her blog) has videos of her breaking out her 2yo stud colt right now. They are pretty interesting to watch. Similar to Clinton, but enough different and she talks through everything she is doing. I've only gotten through video 10, but will keep watching them. Something to do in this freezing cold! |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I really believed mine had it but he came back negative. But i think he has ulcers as he did not do that as a 2 yo only when he got older he started as a 4 year old he started being weird as he would work well the first day at a horse show and act stupid on second and third was a nut case started being weid in the trailer also and once i twisted my vetsmarm to inject his hocks he was a different horse for,several years then my husband fell ill and did not show much then this year started showing not clocking after 2 vets not finding much except they love they way he moved, carried him to lamness specialist he said he is fusing and. I did do omeprozole for his gut sure made him quiet, but he has gotton so sore in his back from his hocks i have let him off for 30 days. So i am feed a low starch diet will,fix ulcers and pssm. but no grain. Will ride in a week or so next decent weekend as i had a small surgery. |
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Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | annemarea - 2014-01-09 6:22 PM AllAroundRider - 2014-01-09 5:23 PM mreklaw - 2014-01-09 2:40 PM Might also want to check for kissing spine disease. Have you had one checked? Do they just do xrays or?
So are horses with kissing spine generally more sore in the withers or lumbar? I thought KS only affected lumbars? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | I was always under the impression it was in the thoracic area of the spine....here is an article about it:Kissing Spine Disease - Dorsal Spinous Impingement  - Skeleton of a horse
Dorsal Spinous Process (DSP) impingement or “Kissing Spines” is a condition recognized as a significant issue for horses. What constitutes the problem is debatable and how to make a conclusive diagnosis can be an elusive process. The following article will discuss the anatomic findings, diagnostic process, therapeutic options and prognosis. In order to understand the issues behind DSP impingement you have to understand a few anatomical factors. Generally the problem is located in the thoracic section of the vertebral column - the area where the rider sits. Less commonly, involvement of the lumbar vertebrae behind the saddle area can be the source of the problem. As you can see with the attached picture to the left, the thoracic vertebrae begin with the withers and go through the saddle area. -
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | annemarea - 2014-01-10 6:38 AM
I was always under the impression it was in the thoracic area of the spine....here is an article about it:Kissing Spine Disease - Dorsal Spinous Impingement - Skeleton of a horse
Dorsal Spinous Process (DSP) impingement or “Kissing Spines” is a condition recognized as a significant issue for horses. What constitutes the problem is debatable and how to make a conclusive diagnosis can be an elusive process. The following article will discuss the anatomic findings, diagnostic process, therapeutic options and prognosis. In order to understand the issues behind DSP impingement you have to understand a few anatomical factors. Generally the problem is located in the thoracic section of the vertebral column - the area where the rider sits. Less commonly, involvement of the lumbar vertebrae behind the saddle area can be the source of the problem. As you can see with the attached picture to the left, the thoracic vertebrae begin with the withers and go through the saddle area. -
You are correct that is why they sometimes want to buck when you saddle them and put weight in that area. |
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Cold-backed horses