Crowned Image - 2014-01-09 3:04 PM Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think for a Martin you can have someone come out and fit your horse before you buy before you go through the hassle of buying two and returning.

Linda D - 2014-01-09 3:58 PM I started with a 7 and ended 6 saddles later with an 8.5.  You have to learn about shimming in my opinion to get them to work unless your horse has an easy to fit back. 

WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2014-01-09 12:56 PM I just sold my Lisa Lockhart wide fit, which fit my sorrel AWESOME. I think those gullets are what...a 7?  A couple of weekends ago I tried a 7.5 Crown C on him and it was way too big. Dipped down in the front and the bars in the back popped up off his back. So Saturday we are heading to Killdeer to try on a 7.

Flash is a pretty stocky horse, but his back isn't as big as his buttLOL  If i were you I'd try the 7.5 or if you know someone with a 7 you could throw it up on and see what it looks like.

Itchy Shadow - 2014-01-09 3:05 PM I am also looking into buying a Crown C saddle. How would I get a hold of Brian to get a trial saddle & proper fitting instructions on this saddle?

r_beau - 2014-01-09 7:07 PM

Super information everyone! I'm learning lots. 

I watched the videos on Martin Saddlery's website too.

I may have to call Martin Saddlery and see if this "Brian" can help. I'm a little worried about cost though. What sort of process (for those of you who have talked to Brian) do you go through in order to find a good fit for your horse? I'm envisioning them sending you trees, and you sending them back, until you find one that fits your horse pretty good. Am I crazy in my thoughts, or how does it work?

TripleK - 2014-01-09 7:57 PM

I would really like to hear opinions from some of the top saddle makers in America about the "gullet width" dilema. I wish we could get input from Howard Council, Billy Hogg, etc about this. I just cannot see how such a wide gullet is good for a horse. If you don't keep that saddle on the loin muscles down the back, it's going to bruise the ribs because of dropping down too low. I personally don't like the idea of having to shim a saddle to make it fit a horse.

TripleK - 2014-01-09 6:57 PM I would really like to hear opinions from some of the top saddle makers in America about the "gullet width" dilema. I wish we could get input from Howard Council, Billy Hogg, etc about this. I just cannot see how such a wide gullet is good for a horse. If you don't keep that saddle on the loin muscles down the back, it's going to bruise the ribs because of dropping down too low. I personally don't like the idea of having to shim a saddle to make it fit a horse.

j2mankin - 2014-02-06 2:47 PM Brian is great to work with, however I've learned quite a bit about what can happen when you pull a saddle back to get it off the shoulder blades, because I have a very broad horse with skinny withers but shoulder blades that come extremely far back. I agree that a saddle can not sit directly on the scapula. So when you pull most saddles back behind those shoulder blades, the saddle's narrowest point will be further back than intended and will end up pinching behind the wither somewhere. Ed Wright sets the saddle where its manufacturer intended, further forward, and uses his wool pad with built-in shims to give the saddle clearance over the shoulder blade. I like that idea, because of the aforementioned problem in moving a saddle back when most of today's makers design them to ride up on the wither. The Crown C does not pinch in the middle or behind the wither, which is awesome. However, it's so wide in the front that when you pull it back behind the shoulder blades, the front will tip down. The horse is happy, but the rider is tipped downhill and that's a bad way to ride approaching a turn. You would think that a shim like Sherry uses under the front of the saddle would elevate it enough for it to become level, but unfortunately, no matter how many layers of things I used to prop the front of that saddle up, as soon as I cinched up tight for a run, I was tipped downhill like no tomorrow. Look at the photographs of Kassie Mowry from the days she was winning everything circa Jud Little. Then look at photographs of her in the past two years riding the Crown C. She is leaning back approaching the turn! She has to lean back - and I did, too - because that saddle tips downhill because it's too wide in the front end and it is pitching her forward at the time she needs to be able to sit down for the turn. I've been round and round and I love Brian and the gang, and after having him custom-make me a saddle and then completely rebuilding it I finally gave up and sold it. I had gotten turned onto the Crown C after riding in Sherry's personal saddle, which felt amazing. Everything that was shipped from Martin, however, was nothing close to Sherry's own Crown C. Martin used to build Sherry's saddles higher in the front end for when she rode low-withered horses like the Jody O'Toole she had and perhaps Stingray. I don't know for sure if the saddle she rides on Stingray has a built-up front end, but to me that would be the only way the horse and rider could both be happy. It's been three years now and I still haven't found a saddle that's as nice and wide as the Crown C, unfortunately. I recently tried a Circle Y Lisa Lockhart and here's how it's different -- the bars are just as wide, happily, but at the front they must be narrower, giving the saddle a chance to sit higher in the front. It's the only saddle that didn't tip down in front, yet really broadened out toward the rear so it didn't pinch anywhere. I haven't used it long enough to know it's problem-free, however. Anyway, please, nobody buy a horse with narrow withers, an extremely broad back and scapula that reach back to the girth area. Ugh!

3rdtimesacharm - 2014-02-07 2:10 PM  That's good to know I'm not the only one that gets thrown forward, thought it was just me

cheryl makofka - 2014-01-10 5:21 PM The crown c still stays on the loin, that is why you need to shim the front. If you have noticed the majority of horses develop atrophy behind the wither as this is where most ill fitting saddles pinch. With the Martin philosophy you place the gullet in this area, the actual degree of bars is 100 where a normal saddle maker makes from 92-95 and call this quarter horse bars. The regular pozzi is 90, the regular Lisa Lockhart is 100, the regular Kelly kaminiski is 90. The theory behind the Martin on why the saddle should be placed behind the shoulder is horses were not designed to carry weight on their back, if you place a restricting object down on their shoulder and tie it in place as tight as you can (some people do ride this way) the soft tissue between the shoulder. I can't remember if they did studies on this or not. By placing the saddle behind the shoulder, this was the lesser impact, and by having the big gullet, and good saddle fit you are not restricting movement, not decreasing blood circulation, therefore not causing muscle atrophy. Brian also said that he believes majority of horses will need to be shimmed in the front their entire life.

skye - 2014-02-07 3:14 PM I have never been able to keep the saddle on the shoulders unless I used a breast collar.  I have seen saddles so tight it pinches them behind the shoulders.  I like the Martin concept of flared bars so the shoulders are not getting jabbed and helps with the tightness.  Martin saddle bars have less angle to them to fit the quarterhorse better.  The Double J flare the bars in front too. 

jojammer - 2014-02-07 2:46 PM

I talked to Brian last night, apparently they have come up with a new saddle, the FX3 I believe. I thought I might try a crown c but after looking at the 3 saddles on their site, I won't know which seat I'll like until I sit in em, so I'm driving down there maybe.

I think this about the shim thing though.

Take a strip of sock and lay it over the arch of your foot. Lace your shoes up. I'm not saying it will cause damage, but to me, that would be so uncomfortable to feel that edge digging in. Do the shims have tapered edges?

On a horse with a dip and big shoulders, a saddle with a lot of flair will help allow the shoulders to move without pushing the saddle back every time the shoulder blade moves. If you go too wide or too flat, the saddle might just keep falling back in that hole behind the shoulders. I've had a horse like this, and I went through probably 5 or 6 saddles before finding one.

cheryl makofka - 2014-02-07 6:14 PM


My horses are all young and have never had I'll fitting saddles on so they don't have a dip.

A horse with an ill fitting saddle that is causing pressure in the other area. With the excess pressure it is cutting off blood circulation therefore killing muscle cells, eventually the horse will experience muscle atrophy, this is the dips behind the shoulder.

With a Martin, their bars are 100 degrees, they increase the gullet size to make the bars wider apart to fit the wide backed horses.

With the crown c you fit the saddle with the shims. You feel underneath the saddle and underneath the shims to ensure there are no pressure points. So I don't think your arch philosophy applies.

And yes the shims are tapered.

jojammer - 2014-02-07 7:51 PM


It does on this horse. If you had a wide enough gullet for his big shoulders and didn't have the flair in front or the rock in the bars, there would be probably a 3-4 inch gap between his back and the saddle. My entire forearm would fit in there. I have no idea how many shims or what kind of pad could fill that. He had some atrophy, yes, but in this case, that's not what caused the shape of his entire back. Even with his back squared up and being fit, it just is what it is, curvy.

Now the horse I have now, he's pretty narrow, withers are medium to low. Back is very very square and flat across the top. So it's funny that he has a square back but narrow body because a lot of trees are either wide gullets with angled bars for more cow horse type backs, or they are narrow and have a lot of rock and twist for racier types. So far, I haven't found a fit. At first, what I've read about Martin was great. The more I read about it throwing the rider forward is scaring me off.

missroselee - 2014-02-08 6:18 PM

I must be the only person on the planet that does not like how the martin saddles are designed to sit on a horses back.  But then I'm no expert by any means.  Just personal preference...... 

missroselee - 2014-02-07 7:18 PM I must be the only person on the planet that does not like how the martin saddles are designed to sit on a horses back.  But then I'm no expert by any means.  Just personal preference...... 

sorrel horse ranch - 2014-02-08 10:44 AM No you are not the only one.  I am right there with you. 

Dashing04 - 2014-02-08 6:25 PM Do any other Martin saddles (ie. rope saddles) have these wide gullets? 



It seems to me these are only marketed to barrel racers. Why? There are a lot of stout horses in other disciplines. 

missroselee - 2014-02-07 7:18 PM

I must be the only person on the planet that does not like how the martin saddles are designed to sit on a horses back.  But then I'm no expert by any means.  Just personal preference...... 

Snappy - 2014-02-08 8:58 AM I've been riding Martin saddles for the last 7 years, minus the couple of times I tried other saddles ( but always came back, lol). None of my saddles are the new gullet way of measuring and I saddle like I always have and have had great luck with my saddles. I will say though I didn't like my crown c, I felt like I was sitting on my crotchet and I like to sit on my pockets. After numerous times talking to Brian he told me the Martin Racer would be a better fit. I was able to find one used, and get it quickly and it has been a great saddle and a much better fit for me. I also have 2 of the older original Cervi saddles I love.

AllAroundRider - 2014-02-08 10:33 PM Saying it's a fad is like saying any saddle is a fad because every single one has their own particular tree that they believe in and use; just like Martin only Martin chooses to have more options than most.



Are Caldwell's a fad as well? They have a vartiety of trees and *gasp* even in wider gullets.



There are many, many pros out there using the saddles and winning lots and lots of money on lots and lots of horses and have been for several years. Pray tell how long does it take a fad to go out? I think this is a trend we will continue to see in the future.



As far as wider gullets in other Martin's, yes they have them. Several NFR steer wrestlers and ropers have the Martin's in different gullets it just seems to have taken off with the barrel racers faster because most are very fanatical on saddle fit and taking care of their horse.

Three 4 Luck - 2014-02-09 10:33 AM

 Serious question. Why were they making 6.5 and then 7 as their standard size if that's not going to fit the majority of horses?  

My 7 has fit the little cowbreds and my young horses really well. I bought it for my 14.3 racy built DNB gelding. The gelding I'm running now is quite a bit bigger and the saddle falls down in the front and digs in behind his shoulder. But if I use a shimmed Corrector pad, I can fill in behind his shoulders and lift the saddle so that it follows his contours and leaves no pressure points. Standing still.   A bigger size would still fall in the front except worse.  I've had a horse that stayed sore in the ribs because he needed a saddle with more twist--the wide saddle I was using fit front and back but not middle.  How does that not happen when you move to the huge wide gullets?  Because my saddle has very little twist and flare.  This horse is another one that really needs that. 

/Streakin/ - 2014-02-08 10:41 PM  I think it's a fad. I spent 3200 on mine and HATED it. Hated. HAAAATED. Lol. Threw me forward on 3 different horses. Sold that thing quicker than Obummer lies.

canchaserdelux - 2014-02-16 1:25 PM

I tried an older sherry Cervi saddle, and I loved the way it fit me, but it did not fit my horse. It was 6 1/2 gullet.
I have had my horse fitted, was told he needs and 8.5" gullet. My concerns with a wider gullet is will it hurt my hips? What is your experinence with wider gullets?

cheryl makofka - 2014-02-16 1:38 PM


Depends on if you have hip problems

montanacowgirl - 2015-02-17 1:58 PM As you can see, the Crown C's vary by owner and horse type. I myself custom ordered a 7" gullet and it fits both of my horses great. I may get a 7.5" gullet, as I need a 2nd one, because my cow horse bred mare could probably go up a little, but it's HARD to find a 7" and a 7.5" because everyone keeps them. I bought an 8" and it was WAY too big on both of them. I know shimming is "the thing" and I love Sherri but my personal opinion is that the right fit saddle will fit RIGHT, you shouldn't need to shim it. When I ordered my saddle I talked to many people at Martin and they said that approximately 90% of the saddles they make are the standard 7" gullet (it was 6.5" until 2012 when they changed it to 7"). As far as being thrown forward, I was told that if you have a seat that is too small, even 1/2", it will pitch you forward. I found that to be true when I rode in the 14.5" but have owned two 15" now and I don't have a problem at all. It sounds like these saddles aren't for everyone, but they fit both of my horses like a "custom" saddle, so if you can find the right size gullet for your horse AND the right size seat for you, I think you will enjoy these saddles more than any others you have had :).