SaraJean - 2014-01-15 10:57 AM My best mounted shooting horse goes back to Impressive as well. Seriously he is THE best minded, athletic, fast & willing horse I've ever owned. I've done everything from showing english & western classes on him, to roping & ranch work, & now mounted shooting. You can make a 1D shooting run on him come out of the arena & throw a kid on him to cool him down. I know people worry about HYPP but if the horse is n/n there is nothing to worry about & so many do not get that.

For me I tend to stay away from Hancock and Peppy San Badger horses. It's not that either line is bad, I simply do not click with them. And while more of a local line, you can't give me another McKeag horse.

mruggles - 2014-01-15 1:00 PM i dont have any that im dead set against.........i think sometimes ppl get a mind block, if you took away the papers and just had the horse.....you would get a different result.......... 



m

chuckie31 - 2014-01-15 12:01 PM

Can I ask why you steer clear of Impressive bloodlines?  

Mighty Broke - 2014-01-15 10:06 AM I have absolutely loved every Beduino horse that I have had, good on trails, ATHLETIC, but it seemed once it was time to ask for that little extra---their mind couldn't handle it. Again, it was probably just that we did not click because I know a lot of people that have had great success with this line. I just hate spending all the time that it takes to get them to the final stage and then to realize it isn't working--so I stay away from them. 

FlyingJT - 2014-01-15 11:55 AM

I'm sad to see so many non-hancock people. I love Hancock, Blue Valentine, driftwood Ike horses. I personally love their dispositions, gentle giants! My experience with them is that once they know their job they want to be left alone about it. Show them once and they have it forever. Pick on them and your going to eat dirt.

I agree with steering clear of Impressive lines and I also steer clear of skipper W horses. Not my cup of tea!

Three*C*Champs - 2014-01-15 1:14 PM


 I love my Beduinos and this statement is very true about the ones I've had
 

roxieannie - 2014-01-15 12:36 PM

 Years ago, an Impressive horse, good looking athletic sucker. He was hot and cold. One moment would show you how "dazzling" he was. The next, nope, not gonna work. He didn't want to do anything from trail riding to working cows or running barrels. He did enjoy you brushing him and telling him how beautiful he was, though. 

FlyingJT - 2014-01-15 10:55 AM

I'm sad to see so many non-hancock people. I love Hancock, Blue Valentine, driftwood Ike horses. I personally love their dispositions, gentle giants! My experience with them is that once they know their job they want to be left alone about it. Show them once and they have it forever. Pick on them and your going to eat dirt.

I agree with steering clear of Impressive lines and I also steer clear of skipper W horses. Not my cup of tea!

lindseylou2290 - 2014-01-15 12:50 PM

I stay away from anything Impressive b/c of the whole genetic HYPP issue. As a whole, it is harder on resale with them even with a n/n test result.

Hancock ... of the 4 that I have owned 3 were buckers from the get go. The 4th, we never clicked. She was lazy as hell for me and when pushed or asked to "step up her game" she would refuse and we would "pick a fight" real quick.

Skipper W - you either love or hate 'em. I have a good one right now but Lord knows I have delt with some real idiots from that line too.

I'm actually really glad their are SO MANY horses and lines to choose from ... if you think about it, there are so many different riding abilities and types of riders that no one line of horse could possibly fit everyone. (JMO)

Mighty Broke - 2014-01-15 11:06 AM I have absolutely loved every Beduino horse that I have had, good on trails, ATHLETIC, but it seemed once it was time to ask for that little extra---their mind couldn't handle it. Again, it was probably just that we did not click because I know a lot of people that have had great success with this line. I just hate spending all the time that it takes to get them to the final stage and then to realize it isn't working--so I stay away from them. 

Red3 - 2014-01-15 1:33 PM I have an Ivory James, who obviously goes back to beduino lol. He is talented as heck but definitely takes a quiet hand and totally agree with the last bit of training they sometimes seem to take a few steps back. But he is definitely smart and once you figure out his quirks, he is pretty easy to handle

FlyingJT - 2014-01-15 1:38 PM


This has been my experience. Grant it, I've only ever owned one that was impressive bred but he was exactly how you describe.

LAC - 2014-01-15 1:11 PM Same here! Impressive horses are bred to be looked at....not used. As soon as you need to count on them they will sell you short.

Whiteboy - 2014-01-15 11:22 AM I think that there are more bad horsemen than bad bloodlines.  Most of the lines mentioned above- you can't even hardly get on the papers anymore.   By the time a horse is 3 or 4 or 5 generations out, does it really even count.  I hear people say things about beduino's, then I see the papers and beduino is 4 gens back.  I'm sorry but that isn't a beduino, that is a 1/14 beduino that has alot of other influence in there.  I see that same thing with hancocks.  That doesn't mean you have to like everything, but you might be missing out on some nice horses because of personal bias that doesn't make any sense.  To each their own I guess.

teehaha - 2014-01-15 1:40 PM ditto to this. 



When hubby was roping and shoping for a horse he must have tried out at least a dozen geldings and mares.  The one he finally clicked with and was worth his weight in gold just happened to be Impressive bred.  He didn't even look at the papers until he went to pay for him.  

Whiteboy - 2014-01-15 11:22 AM I think that there are more bad horsemen than bad bloodlines.  Most of the lines mentioned above- you can't even hardly get on the papers anymore.   By the time a horse is 3 or 4 or 5 generations out, does it really even count.  I hear people say things about beduino's, then I see the papers and beduino is 4 gens back.  I'm sorry but that isn't a beduino, that is a 1/14 beduino that has alot of other influence in there.  I see that same thing with hancocks.  That doesn't mean you have to like everything, but you might be missing out on some nice horses because of personal bias that doesn't make any sense.  To each their own I guess.

runs4fun - 2014-01-15 12:07 PM A lot of people have certain blood lines that they don't care for because of their personal experiences with them or because of what they've heard. However,  all the blood lines already mentioned have many super good-minded and athletic horses that have come from the lineage.  I've always heard that Peppy San Badger horses buck but not the gelding I have out of that line, I'd pay big bucks to get another just like my ol' guy!   

losthaven - 2014-01-15 11:46 AM Impressive but just because I am in the raising and selling business and buyers tend to shy away from Impressive bloodlines regardless of their status. An interesting note about Impressive is that he was not bred to be a halter horse. He was bred to race but because of his sheer size and muscle mass his race career was cut short (he dis go into race training and was apparently quite speedy but owners feared injury due to his size). It was his size, conformation and muscle mass that attracted halter breeders to him. The other interesting piece of info about Impressive is that he himself did not have HYPP. Neither did his sire or dam have HYPP. It started as a genetic mutation in Impressive's semen only which is why he wasn't affected. The how or the why the mutation occurred is yet unknown.

OregonBR - 2014-01-15 1:58 PM There are all sorts of reasons why someone may not like a line. I tend not to buy any Impressive, Beduino, Murrtheblurr, (more locally), Mr Go Devil, Desierto, any halter lines.  I can't think of anymore but I'm sure they are there.  Some lines are fast as all get out, but not known to be turny.  Those I tend to stay away from.  It doesn't mean they are great horses.  Just don't fit in with what I want.



I also steer clear of the non-barrel horse lines, the ranchy lines and the lines that are known for genetic diseases or fragile minds are forbidden. 



The only Skipper W I like is through Biankus.  I have two mares from Biankus through Captain Biankus.



I do have a granddaughter of Peppy San Badger that I love. She's the only non-barrel horse turny line I have left.  I have bred her to 3 different studs and the best ones are by my current stallion HAB. They have all been easy to break and work with all their heart when given a job. I do think they need a job, not just stand around 5 days of the week and taken out on the weekend.  The "bucking" that people talk about was never a problem for her. She was out of a very good minded mare.  She is cinchy though.  And one of her kids by a son of Judge Cash can get naughty.  She's also very talented. So they put up with her. 



It's not necessarily because I don't get along with them. Though that will get one sold.  I look at results. I pick lines that I like AND that work in the arena.  Just like was already stated, I don't think much of horses that will puke when you need them. I don't ride anymore. But when I did the most frustrating animal was the one that had tons of talent but no desire or they were counterfeit.  Make you think they were better than sliced bread then puke when the money was up.   I can't stand them.

Whiteboy - 2014-01-15 1:44 PM


What a smart guy.  That is a hard thing to do, but I guarantee- especially on a gelding, if you do it any other way, you are missing out.

jenijill - 2014-01-15 2:54 PM

peppy san badger   have had experiences with too many dirty buckers within that blood line
 

halter_ego - 2014-01-15 1:08 PM No Impressive or Skipper W 

Itsme - 2014-01-15 3:31 PM

FG,DTF...

jenijill - 2014-01-15 2:54 PM

peppy san badger   have had experiences with too many dirty buckers within that blood line
 

FlyingJT - 2014-01-15 3:33 PM Why?

Whiteboy - 2014-01-15 3:52 PM


She's being funny! 

FlyingJT - 2014-01-15 3:53 PM Oh, I thought maybe she knew something I didn't!

FlyingJT - 2014-01-15 12:59 PM


who were your Hancock horses crossed with? or were they linebred?

runs4fun - 2014-01-15 3:23 PM


The first horse to run a sub 15 at the NBHA World Show in Augusta in the early days was Skipper W Three Bars....one bad to the bone, moto-scooter!  Won everything there was to win in the state of FL! 

Mighty Broke - 2014-01-15 2:09 PM


I absolutley LOVE Ivory James and I am actually planning on putting his blood in our little program in the future either through some broodies or buying a stallion. I have even considered crossong one of my Sun Frost daughters with him. For me, Beduino is so far back it is not a factor, when I say that I stay away from Beduino's it is up closer, but heck that is getting hard to find any more anyhow. 

barlracr429 - 2014-01-15 6:02 PM

Dinky Red Man.   They are athletic, fast, quick little suckers and very smart learners, but their minds are soooooo so sooo very fragile that they tend to come un-done.  I realize they've won a ton up and down the east coast and at the AQHA World shows, but I owned one and she was the fastest, quickest horse I've ever ridden, but also the most mentally crazy.  they are a dime a dozen around here and maybe 1 out of 10 can keep it together.  I've watched a lot of them come un-done under the hands of many different riders. I know a lot of respectable people around here won't touch them with a ten foot pole. 

SKM - 2014-01-15 6:44 PM

I must say...I am really glad that I never asked about bloodlines when I bought this filly. Double bred Beduino.... Go Man Go.... that dreaded Hancock.... all that's missing is Impressive. 
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/grc+quick+scrutiny

I did listen to BHW once and passed up a PYC Paint Your Wagon filly for $6,000 because everyone here said it was too much. She sold for $10,000, ran out about $13,000 on the track as a 2 year old and is now in the barrel pen. I learned my lesson on that one.

As for the Hancock haters... you do all realize that he was foaled in 1923? So that means that his bloodline is so diluted that there could easily be other horses more responsible for the broncy behaviour?

Or... let's face it, some horses are simply not meant for some people. Call it a personality clash or what have you. I believe bad horses , regardless of the bloodline, are few and far inbetween. But the Man Made nasty ones are a dime a dozen.
 

Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-01-15 9:50 PM I dont discriminate against blood lines. Every horse is an individual and should be treated as such.

runs4fun - 2014-01-15 3:23 PM

The first horse to run a sub 15 at the NBHA World Show in Augusta in the early days was Skipper Joe Three Bars (Skipper W)....one bad to the bone, moto-scooter!  Won everything there was to win in the state of FL! 

stayceem - 2014-01-15 8:44 PM I try not to discriminate to badly on bloodlines because I think each horse is different and their upbringing can have a lot to do with it. However, I dont think I mesh with OTMR horses. I too stay clear of impressive due to resale (I dont buy/sell often) but I like to know the option is there. My experience with Go Man Go horses isnt great either, just feel they have very fragile minds. Ive had good luck with Peppy San horses, I know they can be kinda p*ssy but they are hard workers.

Griz - 2014-01-16 5:28 AM I won't have another Oklahoma Fuel or another Bully Bullion - my Oklahoma Fuel was counterfit and my Bully Bullion shattered my arm and acted like a total idiot 24/7. 

Zanadoo88 - 2014-01-15 8:08 PM


Well said!! I like the way you think!!!

Tilt The Kilt - 2014-01-16 10:45 AM Doc Bar, those with him up closer or more than once, only buckers I've ever had.  



And Little Peppy (Peppy San Badger), those who really got his performance cutting gene are so stingy and watchy and reactive, they really aren't fun to ride. 

 

rachellyn80 - 2014-01-16 8:36 AM I'd like to see the FULL pedigree on a lot of the horses that have been mentioned....  It's funny how people pick out the biggest name in a pedigree and either praise or blame everything in that direction.

Griz - 2014-01-16 9:33 AM My Bully Bullion was a Daughter - Here ya go!

Makeover a Bully 5113331 2006 sorrel mare
SIRE side of pedigree		Raise Your Glass (TB) 1968       T0118794 chestnut	Raise a Native (TB) 1961       T0116267 chestnut
	Special Effort 1979        1962337 sorrel		Champagne Woman (TB) 1963       T0152824 chestnut
		Go Effortlessly 1969        0912824 sorrel	Double Devil 1962        0213370 sorrel
Bully Bullion 1984        2357501 bay			Hijo Beauty (TB) 1955       T0057941 bay
		Bond Issue 1955        0103728 brown	Bymeabond (TB) 1942       T0054155 bay
	Mary Poppins 1963        0274441 brown		Queenie 1937        0002543 bay
		Raza 1953        0053974 chestnut	Spotted Bull (TB) 1946       T0065183 bay
			Ariel Lady 1946        0012620 chestnut
DAM side of pedigree		L'Natural (TB) 1973       T0248718 chestnut	Raise a Native (TB) 1961       T0116267 chestnut
	Raise a Secret 1983        2361537 sorrel		Mellow Marsh (TB) 1963       T0239451 chestnut
		Ala Secret Sue 1975        1308451 bay	Alamitos Bar 1959        0150623 bay
Remake 1993        3239251 chestnut			Sully's Secret (TB) 1955       T0065460 chestnut
		Merridoc 1977        1308642 chestnut	Tiny's Gay 1972        0856846 brown
	Making Merri 1986        2454192 chestnut		Sparkling Tip 1966        0540692 chestnut
		Seperate Ways 1978        2093122 sorrel	Hempen (TB) 1962       T0057845 chestnut
			Jet Together 1972        0820900 sorrel

FlyingJT - 2014-01-15 1:14 PM Most people is because of HYPP.

angelica - 2014-01-15 4:21 PM

I have had bad luck with Go Man Go or Top Deck bred horses, thats older blood lines. I have had good luck with Impressive bred horses. 

BlazeFlameHarley - 2014-01-16 9:15 AM

When I had my mare at the race track this spring the outrider wanted to see her because he had heard several people say how nice she was. He loved her until I told her she was Skipa Star(Skipper W) on top. lol he had one that was also a barrel horse, and as he started describing his quirks I had to laugh, she has every single one he had. Will work herself to death for you, but dont try to tell her shes wrong... She will pitch a fit in a heart beat. She knows her job, and does not like being man handled. She had definitely taught me to be a quieter rider.

When my gelding was back there and he found out what "local" line he was from, he said "I'll bet he can buck" lol... Honestly hes only ever SERIOUSLY bucked once in the whole time I have owned him, but in general no. Hes not a mean hearted horse. he likes to work and go.

As far as the mare goes I would say he was probably right, that they got their temper from the Skipa Star/Skipper W line because the way he described his gelding was exactly how she is. May just be a fluke, but maybe not. As far as the gelding goes this line is a lot like some of the "Hancocks" you see.. These horses need jobs, and need to have something to focus on.

I dont really avoid any bloodlines I dont guess... QH wise. But I would probably never buy a horse with Storm Cat within the first 2-3 generations.... Every single one I have handled(about 20), has been quirky, spooky, nasty attitudes, ect just naturally. The ones I have handled were all SC grand babies or great grand babies. The one I have handled the most though was a grandson. He is a gelding but he will flat try to hurt you. Handled a granddaughter the same way. The rest werent THAT bad, but they were bad enough I wouldnt put myself through handling one daily if I didnt HAVE to.

Last Catt - 2014-01-16 12:22 PM


We had a Skipper W who was very quirky. He had been trained on barrels and my grandma was using him. I knew his breeder an had known him before he was broke. very confident and loving, but he could have a naughty streak! Broke as could be (bareback and neck rope type horse) but ask him to run and he was hard to shut down. If there was a tree he could run you into, he would. I was running to the first barrel, he didn't turn and instead ran me through the pine tree right behind it. I just leaned back against his back and waited till it was over (my family who was out there thought I got stuck in the tree till I came out the other side still on him), but I had green, sap, and scratches up my arms, chest and face. Loved him but he was quirky for sure.

Griz - 2014-01-16 11:33 AM My Bully Bullion was a Daughter - Here ya go!

Makeover a Bully 5113331 2006 sorrel mare
SIRE side of pedigree		Raise Your Glass (TB) 1968       T0118794 chestnut	Raise a Native (TB) 1961       T0116267 chestnut
	Special Effort 1979        1962337 sorrel		Champagne Woman (TB) 1963       T0152824 chestnut
		Go Effortlessly 1969        0912824 sorrel	Double Devil 1962        0213370 sorrel
Bully Bullion 1984        2357501 bay			Hijo Beauty (TB) 1955       T0057941 bay
		Bond Issue 1955        0103728 brown	Bymeabond (TB) 1942       T0054155 bay
	Mary Poppins 1963        0274441 brown		Queenie 1937        0002543 bay
		Raza 1953        0053974 chestnut	Spotted Bull (TB) 1946       T0065183 bay
			Ariel Lady 1946        0012620 chestnut
DAM side of pedigree		L'Natural (TB) 1973       T0248718 chestnut	Raise a Native (TB) 1961       T0116267 chestnut
	Raise a Secret 1983        2361537 sorrel		Mellow Marsh (TB) 1963       T0239451 chestnut
		Ala Secret Sue 1975        1308451 bay	Alamitos Bar 1959        0150623 bay
Remake 1993        3239251 chestnut			Sully's Secret (TB) 1955       T0065460 chestnut
		Merridoc 1977        1308642 chestnut	Tiny's Gay 1972        0856846 brown
	Making Merri 1986        2454192 chestnut		Sparkling Tip 1966        0540692 chestnut
		Seperate Ways 1978        2093122 sorrel	Hempen (TB) 1962       T0057845 chestnut
			Jet Together 1972        0820900 sorrel

Griz - 2014-01-16 5:28 AM I won't have another Oklahoma Fuel or another Bully Bullion - my Oklahoma Fuel was counterfit and my Bully Bullion shattered my arm and acted like a total idiot 24/7. 

Griz - 2014-01-16 11:35 AM  Here's the Oklahoma Fuel pedi



http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/marjon+to+win

RidenFly - 2014-01-16 10:06 AM I thought I was making this up in my mind but for whatever reason, Doc Bar up close and I are like oil and water.  I don't get em' 

rachellyn80 - 2014-01-16 8:36 AM I'd like to see the FULL pedigree on a lot of the horses that have been mentioned....  It's funny how people pick out the biggest name in a pedigree and either praise or blame everything in that direction.

CYA Ranch - 2014-01-17 12:25 PM There's a lot of Doc Bar in my area.  Some just don't click with them.  For me personally I love them.  Gritty as hell.  

Whiteboy - 2014-01-16 2:27 PM This thread reminds me that I do have a confession.  For a long time, and until recently I have been very opposed to chicks deck horses.  I had an opinion of them based on 4 mares that were all granddaughters.  These were some nasty, rank horses.  Chick deck was the only thing these horses had in common on their papers.  I have always included chicks beduino into that oppinion, and refused to touch one, until about a month ago.  For the last month I have been riding a son of chicks beduino.  What a nice horse.  Wyoming Barrel Racer is going to think I'm crazy for this turn around, but this horse is really nice.