barrelracin85 - 2014-01-16 1:26 PM Here is a really personal website from a lady who deals with bipolar and she blogs candidly about suicide. I am posting a link from where I searched suicide and it brought up her blog postings related to it. http://natashatracy.com/?s=Suicide&doing_wp_cron=1389820837.724... My uncle was bipolar and committed suicide while under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Her posts helped me understand some things from his view.

skeeter 777 - 2014-01-15 3:42 PM Her psychiatrist has her on so many meds its scary :(  Ive often wondered if that isnt part of it.  Then he had her to ECT which is the shock therapy.  She refuses to switch counselors, says shes too far in and doesnt want to go through it with anyone else but it saddens me that after this much time there doesnt seem to be any improvement.

Whiteboy - 2014-01-15 3:56 PM I dont have anything to add, but I'm sorry you have to deal with this.  It is a very helpless place to be in.  Suicide is a very selfish thing, but people that do it or attempt are not in the right state of mind.  I'll pray for you and your friend.

CrossCreek - 2014-01-16 8:19 PM It amazes and angers me when people say that suicide is a selfish act...selfish for who? You, perhaps, who would rather keep these people in your lives, for your own selfish purposes, than understand that they in such a place of pain that the only release is to take their own life. You have no right to judge that act, none whatsoever. You are selfish to think you can lord that opinion over people who are crying for help, not judgement. 

Lucylouwon - 2014-01-17 7:07 AM It is a selfish act, no judgement what-so-ever.  This act is done by people who are in a place that I can not fathom.  I can not fathom what it takes to "give up" to not fight and overcome.  The "selfish" comes because what ever they are fighting they are giving up and giving NO thought to ANYONE but themselves.  The impact on a Child who has a parent that commits suicde is lifelong, and overcoming the "why didn't they love me enough to let me help, or didn't I love them enough to stop this" thoughts takes time and the self esteem issues are limitless for those left BEHIND.    I've seen the Spouse of someone who committed Suicide and the blame and helplessness felt by the Spouse is indescribable.    So it is a selfish act, to leave those behind in pain and anguish because the decision was made to end it all was made with no outside thought as to the IMPACT of that decision.   And I disagree - taking your life is not the ONLY way out.  Where there is a WILL there is a WAY.

runs4fun - 2014-01-18 5:52 AM Mental illness is a very real and very painful disease.  Clinical depression is very real and painful, as well.  Because people do not understand diseases of the mind (brain) the same way they do diseases of other parts of our body, they tend to overstep their bounds when making remarks such as the selfishness of suicide.  Why someone committed suicide would dictate whether it is a selfish and/or cowardly act.  If one kills themself because they were caught molesting a child, or just  embezzlling money from their job, and do not want to face society or prison time, then, yes, it is selfish.  If someone commits suicide because they simply cannot live with the very real pain that comes with certain mental illnesses and years of treatment have not managed that pain, then it is understandable.  If someone has cancer and the doctors couldn't manage the pain and that person chose to commit suicide, while sad, people would understand it.  Mental illness, unless you've dealt with it personally in yourself or in your family, you aren't able to comprehend the same way you can other diseases.

 

My point of view comes from experience.  My father was manic/depressive for years.  The first time he attempted to kill himself was with an overdose and I, at the age of 14, happen to be the one to find him and call the ambulance.  Back to the hospital, more counseling, more meds but no end to his obvious and overwhelming pain.  The next time he attempted, he shot himself in the head for the purpose making sure he was successful.  He left a letter of apology but explaining that the pain was unmanageable and by finally taking care of it, he would be helping himself and us in the long run as we wouldn't have to deal with the disease anymore.  He was 44 years old when he died.  He was one of 4 sons in his family and the oldest.  A few years later his youngest brother did the same thing as he was about to be committed to a mental hospital again for the 5th time, he was 42 years old.  Both of these men were very intelligent, very accomplished and very good men that were afflicted with a very real and very genetic disease.  I watched the pain for many years from both my father and my uncle and I often describe it as watching someone drown, throwing them a rope and they just can't ever quite get a hold of it as you have to watch them slowly go under.



Please do not make generalizations and judgments about a disease you are not educated about, or at least, have the decency to keep your opinions to yourself. Do people that die of cancer or ALS or any other disease just give up without giving thought to the impact?  You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.



I would like to ad,too, that the underlying cause of depression and/or mental illness is quite often a chemical imbalance in the brain which makes it, in fact, a physical disease.  This imbalance may or may not be able to be controlled with medication.  When this is the case all the counseling and trying to get to the root of the problem is not going to do anyone any good. As time goes on and medicine progress with CT scans and different imaging of the brain and tests that detect imbalances it is becoming a little easier to prove to people that it is, indeed, a physical illness.  Sadly, it still remains one of the least understood diseases in the world.  Many prayers for the young lady that cut her wrists and those that love her.

runs4fun - 2014-01-17 5:52 AM

Mental illness is a very real and very painful disease.  Clinical depression is very real and painful, as well.  Because people do not understand diseases of the mind (brain) the same way they do diseases of other parts of our body, they tend to overstep their bounds when making remarks such as the selfishness of suicide.  Why someone committed suicide would dictate whether it is a selfish and/or cowardly act.  If one kills themself because they were caught molesting a child, or just  embezzlling money from their job, and do not want to face society or prison time, then, yes, it is selfish.  If someone commits suicide because they simply cannot live with the very real pain that comes with certain mental illnesses and years of treatment have not managed that pain, then it is understandable.  If someone has cancer and the doctors couldn't manage the pain and that person chose to commit suicide, while sad, people would understand it.  Mental illness, unless you've dealt with it personally in yourself or in your family, you aren't able to comprehend the same way you can other diseases.
 
My point of view comes from experience.  My father was manic/depressive for years.  The first time he attempted to kill himself was with an overdose and I, at the age of 14, happen to be the one to find him and call the ambulance.  Back to the hospital, more counseling, more meds but no end to his obvious and overwhelming pain.  The next time he attempted, he shot himself in the head for the purpose making sure he was successful.  He left a letter of apology but explaining that the pain was unmanageable and by finally taking care of it, he would be helping himself and us in the long run as we wouldn't have to deal with the disease anymore.  He was 44 years old when he died.  He was one of 4 sons in his family and the oldest.  A few years later his youngest brother did the same thing as he was about to be committed to a mental hospital again for the 5th time, he was 42 years old.  Both of these men were very intelligent, very accomplished and very good men that were afflicted with a very real and very genetic disease.  I watched the pain for many years from both my father and my uncle and I often describe it as watching someone drown, throwing them a rope and they just can't ever quite get a hold of it as you have to watch them slowly go under.

Please do not make generalizations and judgments about a disease you are not educated about, or at least, have the decency to keep your opinions to yourself. Do people that die of cancer or ALS or any other disease just give up without giving thought to the impact?  You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

I would like to ad,too, that the underlying cause of depression and/or mental illness is quite often a chemical imbalance in the brain which makes it, in fact, a physical disease.  This imbalance may or may not be able to be controlled with medication.  When this is the case all the counseling and trying to get to the root of the problem is not going to do anyone any good. As time goes on and medicine progress with CT scans and different imaging of the brain and tests that detect imbalances it is becoming a little easier to prove to people that it is, indeed, a physical illness.  Sadly, it still remains one of the least understood diseases in the world.  Many prayers for the young lady that cut her wrists and those that love her.

Lucylouwon - 2014-01-18 3:48 PM You missed my point. The reason why it's is considered selfish is the impact on those left behind. Yes mental illness is just that mental illness but the mark on those left behind is a huge scar as evidenced by the vehemence of your reaction.

runs4fun - 2014-01-19 6:05 PM Actually it is you who missed my point.  And my reaction was not venemous but rather an attempt to explain to you from the point of view of someone who is well-versed in the pain and EXTREME ANGUISH that mental illness brings to those afflicted AND THEIR FAMILIES with a very hard to treat disease....yes, disease.  You yet to understand just how painful, physically and mentally, the lowest depths of depression can be.  I know because I've witnessed it first-hand on more than one occasion.  The scars left by my father are not nearly so much from the suicide as from the years my family dealt with his horrible and very debilitating disease.  I completely understand his desire not to put himself, or us, through anymore when it was very apparent that medication was not able to help him.  I did not go into detail about what the years that we lived with the worst of the illness but just to give you a slight insight....we would often listen to him sob uncontrollably for hours, we've seen him over-medicated to the point in mid-sentence his eyes would roll to the back of his head and his head would hit the table...I've seen him so weak that he was unable to dress...the clinical depression side of manic depression.  The manic-side....I've seen him not to be able to sleep for days on end but he was so HAPPY that he didn't think it was abnormal and saw no reason for the rest of us to sleep, wake us up in the middle of the night to help with chores, get on the phone and call people at all hours that he hadn't spoken to in years because his mind was racing at a franctic pace and he had so much energy it was like he was going to come out of his skin.  Sounds like drugs, doesn't it?  No, it's the chemical imbalance in the brain that creates it's own drug-like affect and when the good doctors aren't able to find the right drug to counter-act it for that particular individual and then they eventually crash and go to the other extreme...clinical depression that I've already explained.  This is but a very small peak inside the life of a family that lives with this disease.  No, my father was not selfish when he killed himself it was when he was at a kind of in between place, basically normal and the letter he left spoke of how afraid he was of going back to either of the aforementioned conditions and how it hurt him to know that he never knew when it would happen and that he couldn't control it. And the fact that his wife and 3 children were victims of the disease just as much as he was and he did not want us living like that anymore  He did not want to put us through it anymore and he didn't want to put himself through it anymore.  We lived through hell when his disease would peak at either end of the scale....selfish to end it?  I don't really think so.



You say, it is considered selfish.  But that is just the opinion of some, not a tried and true fact...each situation is different and it's a shame that people that aren't involved feel the need to pass judgment.  My POINT is that people like you do not understand enough of the true horrors of mental illness or depression to speak to generalizations and put a one-size-fits-all label to people.  Shame on you.