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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
   
Location: Ft Worth TX | Ok here's what I am dealing with. A mare who rides around calm quiet and great... Stops, backs, rolls back, side passes, two track, slow turn arounds... So all the basics are there. AWESOME on the pattern use to run her in just an "S Hack" until whoa you SOB was yelled at her in a run... Tried the cervi short and long shanked diamond bits, tried a snaffle for the heck of it, tried a ported bit with a small amount of gag action, a combo bit she hated, a Jim Warner short shank, a draw gag and still no luck! Her whoa only goes away when she kicks it in to high gear after third barrel... Any suggestions on a bit with whoa? She runs the same pattern no matter what bit or hack she's very sensitive to your body... There's no yanking or jerking through the pattern or anything. She is light and easy through the pattern just no whoa after a run... |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
 
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Love your title. I hope you get some answers.  |
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 Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | Maybe getting back to basics and listening to the rider off the pattern? Is she sound in the back, rear end and legs? quickly coming down from a hard run can be pretty painful if anything is oout of whack/off/sore/etc. It may not be the bit . . . |
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | Morab76 - 2014-01-18 6:27 PM
Maybe getting back to basics and listening to the rider off the pattern? Is she sound in the back, rear end and legs? quickly coming down from a hard run can be pretty painful if anything is oout of whack/off/sore/etc. It may not be the bit . . .
Yes she is sound have had her chiroed on multiple times shes a 5yo. She backs willingly and stops awesome from all gaits off the pattern and on the pattern when we are just loping through. It's just when I kick her into top gear she wants to keep going and going and going and going... She loves to run. She even whoas when she's roping unless she kicks it into top gear which rarely happens when she ropes because she's just learning. |
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Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | Sounds like someone with more experience than me needs to chime in then Lol It has to be frustrating for you! |
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 How freakish is that?
Posts: 3927
Location: Oregon | I had a horse I couldn't stop and I put a double set of reins on him - one was on a german martingale - that was my "jake brake" and I just left it on his neck and only used it to stop. To run him I just attached another rein regularly and used that. |
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | Morab76 - 2014-01-18 6:35 PM
Sounds like someone with more experience than me needs to chime in then Lol It has to be frustrating for you!
It is VERY frustrating there are so many places I did not haul because the alley put you in a road, or had a hard left. And my confidence on a no stopping horse is not good because that's my pet peeve. It better whoa. So when I run her and don't ask for it all coming home and can stop we clock in the 3d she's jumping to top of the 2d if I do my worry about stopping and have a football field to stop in. I can stop my grade one stakes winning gelding ten times easier in top gear then I can her. |
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 Living within my means
Posts: 5128
Location: Randolph, Utah | I used a pretzel on my hard to stop horse. but he was big and powerful, and I'm little so I needed the control through the whole run and to get shut down. and my horse had other issues that caused him to need a bit like that, but I did have the control I needed, but you have to have soft hands with the pretzel.
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I had a really super nice verrrrry broke 1D horse that started that when his hocks first began bothering him and never quit running off from the 3rd after that, even after I got his hocks feeling better. There was no bit or any amount of pulling that would set his butt down once the adrenaline hit him. Off barrels, or just easing through, you could whisper whoa and he would bury his butt. I finally figured out to just sit down and take him lightly, letting him gear down, instead of panicking and trying to *make* him shut down. He still didn't stop quickly, but it was a huge improvement and a lot safer than him hitting extra gears when I grabbed his head in the alley. |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | You need to find a place to breeze her and get her soft and responsive at a gallop. Very very few people I know do that. You have to get them soft at all gaits. |
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | This is the port bit I tried...
I wish I had a safe place to breeze her. I should have sent her to the track when opurtunity arose I think she's be ten times the horse.
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How freakish is that?
Posts: 3927
Location: Oregon | More bit isn't going to help if she is running away with you. |
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They Don't Know Me
Posts: 3299
Location: Bastrop, TX | If you have a fenced in arena you can practice in, this worked for mine. Granted it didn't fix overnight but it darn sure got him to listening to me and didn't run off anymore. I took the barrels out. I started by going down the fence line straight down it and started speeding up from lope to run to lope and run and at the curve slow him down then open him up on the straight away down the fence, then slow up for the curve across to the fence.....then when he was listening to that pretty good about half way down just before we would be speeding up I'd cut straight across to the fence and speed him up, and shut him down at the fence. Let stand for a minute. Turn and go the other direction. I got him to where every I leaned forward he sped up, when i set down deeper and lifted the reins he'd slow down and then shut down when asked. We did lots of going up the fence and half way down run as if we were going to the 2nd but shut him down at the fence. Then go down the fence to where the 3rd barrel would be turn and run up the center towards the alley or gate but 3/4 start shutting him down and stopping at the fence. He learned to listen to me cause he never knew if we were going to speed up or slow down or stop or lope or run or go FAST..... |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Sounds like she's running from pain. The horse I knew that would do this had a fractured pelvis and PSSM. Sounds EXACTLY the same. Time for a trip to a teaching university for a full and intensive lameness exam. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Do you ever take her out and breeze her? I would say take a look at her hocks, if they are clean then work on breezing her and having her listen to your seat. Talk to her as you sit down and ease up. It sounds like she's hurting if she ignoring any bit. :/ |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | I've rode a few of those. I just learned to deal and never got hurt thankfully. If it's a running blind panic type thing I would look at hocks and also possible bleeding. If its just adrenaline and running like mine I just always broke them down slowly with a give and take like they do on the track. If you grab ones face hard when they are doing that they normally take hold of the bit and speed up. We used to joke that if I would turn the third barrel and "grab" mine he would clock faster. Rest his soul he was a good one! :) Good luck!
Ps. I wouldn't take the chance of messing up my pattern by changing head gear on a nice horse. Jmo. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | If she's 5, her hocks are probably fusing. A chiro can't tell you if that's what's going on. Get her hocks X rayed, and I'd be willing to bet that's why she won't whoa. 4 to 7 is the prime age for hocks to fuse. A bigger bit isn't going to help, jmo.
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 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | A friend of mine had a horse like thAt. Over time it just got worse and worse. The more she pulled the worse the horse pulled. It got to the point it was too dangerouse. She sold the horse as a trail horse. I would be very afraid of a horse like that and be very selective as to where I ran it. Has it always been like that or is it something new? If it is new then I would for sure get an extensive lameness exam. Anytime a horse drastically changes behavior its usually so sort of pain issue. Good luck and be safe |
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | barrelbasher - 2014-01-18 9:01 PM
A friend of mine had a horse like thAt. Over time it just got worse and worse. The more she pulled the worse the horse pulled. It got to the point it was too dangerouse. She sold the horse as a trail horse. I would be very afraid of a horse like that and be very selective as to where I ran it. Has it always been like that or is it something new? If it is new then I would for sure get an extensive lameness exam. Anytime a horse drastically changes behavior its usually so sort of pain issue. Good luck and be safe
She's always been like this once you get her past a certain point running. I was just thinking hocks may be fusing too. She LOVES to run out in pasture she can run hard stop hard roll back and go the other way bookin it. She's so fun to run and calm in the alley I like her till the end. It has too ten a little better and she is pulling up quicker then when I first started running her. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | classicpotatochip - 2014-01-18 8:09 PM
Sounds like she's running from pain. The horse I knew that would do this had a fractured pelvis and PSSM. Sounds EXACTLY the same. Time for a trip to a teaching university for a full and intensive lameness exam.
Yes all the chiro in the world doesn't matter if you don't fix the underlying problem. I'm guessing if you have had her chiro'd several times, something is wrong. My 6 yr old did this as well and it was a pelvic fracture. He is now off for 2 yrs and will hopefully come back as a ranch horse. No more sharp turns or fast stops for him. |
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| I think it would be more important to teach that whoa at the end, so why not keep her tamped down to a controllable speed? She is only five, that's still pretty young. And, she seems to clock pretty decent still at a slower speed coming home. Do that for a time and then slowly try to increase the speed very gradually. Of course, after all physical pain aspects have been checked out.
Good luck. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Whoop Z Day Z - 2014-01-18 8:13 PM This is the port bit I tried... I wish I had a safe place to breeze her. I should have sent her to the track when opurtunity arose I think she's be ten times the horse. Wow now thats alot of bit, the harder the bits that you keep on using on her the harder you are making her mouth. You are getting some really good tips on here, but I myself would get away from the harsh bits, and get her checked out. Good luck with your mare. 
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2014-01-19 11:19 AM
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Southtxponygirl - 2014-01-19 12:15 PM Whoop Z Day Z - 2014-01-18 8:13 PM This is the port bit I tried... I wish I had a safe place to breeze her. I should have sent her to the track when opurtunity arose I think she's be ten times the horse. Wow now thats alot of bit, the harder the bits that you keep on using on her the harder you are making her mouth. You are getting some really good tips on here, but I myself would get away from the harsh bits, and get her checked out. Good luck with your mare.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-01-19 12:43 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| What is the matter with her running and stopping on her own at the gate. Has she hit the end? All my horses I let them stop on their own, never had a problem with them not stopping on their own, if I am running out onto the track, I let them coast past everyone before I ask for stop. If we are running out onto a grass pasture, I keep my horses straight and let them slow down on their own. Have never got the whole idea why people panic at the end and rip their horses face off while stopping. |
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 Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | Does she know what a one rein stop is? I would try that first before adding more bit |
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 Expert
Posts: 1273
Location: South Dakota | This sounds like my old barrel horse. I finally got a long shank with a chain mouthpiece and a noseband. It was the only thing that would stop him. The nice part was I could ride him with light hands. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | My bet is her hocks are starting to bother her. Xrays. there is a reason why you just have to look deep enough to find it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| I'm gonna say what you want and that's a whoa witch bit. I run my crazy gelding in a 8-1/2 inch shanked twisted wire gag combination bit. Works like a charm, but he was a hard mouthed sucker when I got him. I work him in a snaffle off the pattern, then a short shank smooth bar on the pattern slow.
I also found that when my mare was acting up during and after the pattern, I had over bitted her. I went from running in a short shank twisted wire combo on her to running in a smooth loose ring snaffle with a drop cavesson and a tie down. Different horse. So less may be more (I would only try it in a closed alleyway though, lol)
Of course, only use my suggestion if she's sound. |
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 Purveyor of unconventional wisdom
Posts: 17112
Location: CA | Most people when they have a horse that won't stop they get a bit dramatic at the end of a run and really bang on their face to get them to whoa. After a while the horse freeks at the end of the run and worries about this treatment. The other thing I see from time to time is people that wear spurs, when they get into a tight spot they really clamp down on their horse giving them the go signal while thrashing their face. I saw that a lot this weekend. I am not saying this is you, but you might want to think about what you are doing that causes her to want to "keep going". I get it is panic on her end. Fear. If she is good in her turns, she should be able to stop.... physically. So the less is more idea might be the ticket. Just sayin....
Another thing that happens, I had one off the track. After a certain speed he lost his mind and would actually run through fences. I rode him in a long shank hack and a lightweight mona lisa (my emergency brake). It worked, but it just wasn't fair to him. He made a lovely trail course horse and did well in western pleasure. |
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How freakish is that?
Posts: 3927
Location: Oregon | T turning 3 - 2014-01-20 9:35 AM Most people when they have a horse that won't stop they get a bit dramatic at the end of a run Been there, done that.
Edited by crapshooter 2014-01-20 8:45 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 165
| MO gal - 2014-01-19 9:50 AM
I think it would be more important to teach that whoa at the end, so why not keep her tamped down to a controllable speed? She is only five, that's still pretty young. And, she seems to clock pretty decent still at a slower speed coming home. Do that for a time and then slowly try to increase the speed very gradually. Of course, after all physical pain aspects have been checked out.
Good luck.
I agree, if it turns out it's not pain and adrenalene is the problem you should probably take her back a few steps, slow her down coming home controlled and stopping nicely and gradually build the speed back up. |
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Veteran
Posts: 197
| I have ridden a horse for the last 7 yrs. that does not stop leaving the arena. He will stop with the slightest sit in the saddle outside to barrel pattern and is acctually sort of lazy. No amout of bit or pulling will stop him leaving the arena. He actually sort of gains speed his whole run. I have come to think his brain and feet just dont connect with any speed. He does not run out of control or run off. He just takes time to coast to a stop. He will steer anywhere I put him. , I have adapted. In order to stop at a reasonable spot I would have to start pulling up leaving the third barrel. This horse wins a lot of 1D races and in video you can see him build speed. He wins most races running home where he can really outstride most. I just plan my exit route and warn people outside the gate. I hate running closed alleys on him as he will stop dead when he is at the gate(never hits it, but right to it)this kills my back.. I have had people tell me lots of things and bits to try and have over the years-doesnt really matter. I just have concluded that his brain and feet have slow connection. Tugging or pulling on him actually makes him worse . |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24955
Location: WYOMING | This...
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