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 Expert
Posts: 4625
   
Location: Desert Land | What is your thought on buying foals in utero? If you liked the cross, would you do it? If not, why not? We will be offering several for sale this year by popular sires and out of great mares. We sold a few last year and seemed to have no problem. The theory we have adopted is they are worth 1/2 the price in utero as they would be on the ground and so far people have really found that to be fair. I realize there are risks involved (I.e. not knowing conformation, possible health issues, etc.) but I guess that is part of the gamble you take just as if you were to just buy any mare in foal.
Thanks in advance for the input!! |
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  Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
 
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | My opinion is it's intriguing. I'd like to do it one day for a possibly royally bred baby. It's a gamble. I'd love to sell mine in utero. I don't have the cajones to do it....yet. (that was all jumbled together....hope you understood it lol) |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | I probably wouldn't buy or sell in utero because I only buy/sell mares. I'm sure there can be a contract to protect you and the buyer from a colt with health/conformation issues.
Edited by Murphy 2014-01-21 2:51 PM
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | I bought my sorrel filly in utero, I put the deposit on the foal in march.....filly was foaled in may. She is a granddaughter of frenchmans guy and mr eye opener. I had never bought a foal that way....but tried it anyways. I was happy with the deal, but both parents are appendix so I ended up with a grade filly.....but the seller was very nice and gave me half the money back on the filly. And I got a nice chromed out red head who I adore.
I wouldn't hesitate to do it again in a heartbeat......only if the foal can be registered LOL |
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | I think I would do it if they were bred really well |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | We are waiting for a Bet Hesa Cat and a mare that has won in the cutting pen to drop. I am diong this only because my vet owns the mare. Other than that, I would really have to think hard about doing it with a stranger.
Edited by 3canstorun 2014-01-21 3:04 PM
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Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | lexyy12 - 2014-01-21 12:54 PM I think I would do it if they were bred really well
Yeah, we're talking about foals by Dash Ta Fame & Dash For Perks out of proven producers and name brand bred mares.
They aren't offered until the recipient mares are at least 45 days checked in foal at which point the buyer can have the embryo insured for mortality. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | TheOldGrayMare - 2014-01-21 3:16 PM lexyy12 - 2014-01-21 12:54 PM I think I would do it if they were bred really well Yeah, we're talking about foals by Dash Ta Fame & Dash For Perks out of proven producers and name brand bred mares.
They aren't offered until the recipient mares are at least 45 days checked in foal at which point the buyer can have the embryo insured for mortality.
yes I would....your taking a chance on color, sex....but that would be definitely be worth it to me |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 1:50 PM I bought my sorrel filly in utero, I put the deposit on the foal in march.....filly was foaled in may. She is a granddaughter of frenchmans guy and mr eye opener. I had never bought a foal that way....but tried it anyways. I was happy with the deal, but both parents are appendix so I ended up with a grade filly.....but the seller was very nice and gave me half the money back on the filly. And I got a nice chromed out red head who I adore.
I wouldn't hesitate to do it again in a heartbeat......only if the foal can be registered LOL
Oh wow, they didn't know??? |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-21 4:07 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 1:50 PM I bought my sorrel filly in utero, I put the deposit on the foal in march.....filly was foaled in may. She is a granddaughter of frenchmans guy and mr eye opener. I had never bought a foal that way....but tried it anyways. I was happy with the deal, but both parents are appendix so I ended up with a grade filly.....but the seller was very nice and gave me half the money back on the filly. And I got a nice chromed out red head who I adore.
I wouldn't hesitate to do it again in a heartbeat......only if the foal can be registered LOL Oh wow, they didn't know???
No....long story short, the woman I bought the filly from, bought the mare bred from the stallion owner....she told the buyer that she would send copy of stallion papers when she foaled....never happened. So the stallion owner knew the foal couldn't be registered, and she isn't advertising the stallion at stud as an appendix stallion
I could go on......and on |
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Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 2:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-21 4:07 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 1:50 PM I bought my sorrel filly in utero, I put the deposit on the foal in march.....filly was foaled in may. She is a granddaughter of frenchmans guy and mr eye opener. I had never bought a foal that way....but tried it anyways. I was happy with the deal, but both parents are appendix so I ended up with a grade filly.....but the seller was very nice and gave me half the money back on the filly. And I got a nice chromed out red head who I adore.
I wouldn't hesitate to do it again in a heartbeat......only if the foal can be registered LOL Oh wow, they didn't know???
I could go on......and on
That is NOT cool. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 3:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-21 4:07 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 1:50 PM I bought my sorrel filly in utero, I put the deposit on the foal in march.....filly was foaled in may. She is a granddaughter of frenchmans guy and mr eye opener. I had never bought a foal that way....but tried it anyways. I was happy with the deal, but both parents are appendix so I ended up with a grade filly.....but the seller was very nice and gave me half the money back on the filly. And I got a nice chromed out red head who I adore.
I wouldn't hesitate to do it again in a heartbeat......only if the foal can be registered LOL Oh wow, they didn't know???
I could go on......and on
Oh wow is all I have to say. Did your filly come out of Canada? Nice bloodlines by the way. She should be good at whatever you do with her. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-21 4:23 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 3:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-21 4:07 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 1:50 PM I bought my sorrel filly in utero, I put the deposit on the foal in march.....filly was foaled in may. She is a granddaughter of frenchmans guy and mr eye opener. I had never bought a foal that way....but tried it anyways. I was happy with the deal, but both parents are appendix so I ended up with a grade filly.....but the seller was very nice and gave me half the money back on the filly. And I got a nice chromed out red head who I adore.
I wouldn't hesitate to do it again in a heartbeat......only if the foal can be registered LOL Oh wow, they didn't know???
I could go on......and on
No she was born here in kansas, the lady i bought her from lives about 30 miles west of me and I know her personally.
I believe she bought the mare in-foal from Iowa, where the stallion stands currently |
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 Expert
Posts: 1591
Location: East Texas | hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 4:25 PM
wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-21 4:23 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 3:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-21 4:07 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 1:50 PM I bought my sorrel filly in utero, I put the deposit on the foal in march.....filly was foaled in may. She is a granddaughter of frenchmans guy and mr eye opener. I had never bought a foal that way....but tried it anyways. I was happy with the deal, but both parents are appendix so I ended up with a grade filly.....but the seller was very nice and gave me half the money back on the filly. And I got a nice chromed out red head who I adore.
I wouldn't hesitate to do it again in a heartbeat......only if the foal can be registered LOL Oh wow, they didn't know???
I could go on......and on
I believe she bought the mare in-foal from Iowa, where the stallion stands currently
If it's who I'm thinking of they have bred a few appendix mares to him but don't see a problem because they are positive he will perform well enough to get regular papers. (I say that all in a sarcastic tone) I dodged a bullet with them on a similar deal, thank goodness.
As to the OP. I think I would if it was for a fame or another big name, I would definitely have it insured. We breed 16 mares a year, to studs like FWOTR, Epic Leader, etc. I've had a couple of people want to buy the foals in utero out of my really proven mares but I just can't make myself price them before I know if it's a filly or stud colt. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | Interesting idea. I didn't realize you could insure an embryo - but of course you would be able to. So what are the rates on one of those policies?
Someone brought up the gender issue - it's hard for me to imagine either a buyer or seller not caring about that. But if you really don't care a lot on gender, I think it's as good a time to buy as any. 50% seems fair enough considering cash flow and risk. Who does the foaling? That would be a handy thing about ETs - you can actually transfer the recip mare and the transaction is cleaner that way.
As others have said, I'd love to sell mine that way. Well, I think I would . . . I think the reality would be less ideal because I don't sell to people that are neutral on the subject of color or gender. I never have made any effort to and am sure I never will. But there are not any DTF sons or daughters on the way here either. Is there frozen DFP semen?
I wouldn't buy one but we don't buy foals.
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Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | ausranch - 2014-01-21 3:41 PM Interesting idea. I didn't realize you could insure an embryo - but of course you would be able to. So what are the rates on one of those policies? Someone brought up the gender issue - it's hard for me to imagine either a buyer or seller not caring about that. But if you really don't care a lot on gender, I think it's as good a time to buy as any. 50% seems fair enough considering cash flow and risk. Who does the foaling? That would be a handy thing about ETs - you can actually transfer the recip mare and the transaction is cleaner that way. As others have said, I'd love to sell mine that way. Well, I think I would . . . I think the reality would be less ideal because I don't sell to people that are neutral on the subject of color or gender. I never have made any effort to and am sure I never will. But there are not any DTF sons or daughters on the way here either. Is there frozen DFP semen? I wouldn't buy one but we don't buy foals.
I'm not sure of the insurance rates on embryos. I need to call thought pretty quick here as I will have a couple ready to insure soon enough. There is DFP frozen semen available through 2 vets here in the US. |
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Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | Well I can say for sure the color out of the one sorrel mare to DTF will be 100% sorrel, LOL. |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | I've sold a few embryos but not a foal in utero. I am scared to sell a foal in utero, surely if I did that, the mare would abort or something weird will happen. I sell first come first serve with a contract/deposit. Several of my foals sell before they are even a day old, this way. I'd just rather wait until they are safe on the ground but that is just me. That and I keep the fillies we get.....I only sell colts most of the time.
Edited by rockinas 2014-01-21 7:24 PM
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | TheOldGrayMare - 2014-01-21 5:49 PM ausranch - 2014-01-21 3:41 PM Interesting idea. I didn't realize you could insure an embryo - but of course you would be able to. So what are the rates on one of those policies? Someone brought up the gender issue - it's hard for me to imagine either a buyer or seller not caring about that. But if you really don't care a lot on gender, I think it's as good a time to buy as any. 50% seems fair enough considering cash flow and risk. Who does the foaling? That would be a handy thing about ETs - you can actually transfer the recip mare and the transaction is cleaner that way. As others have said, I'd love to sell mine that way. Well, I think I would . . . I think the reality would be less ideal because I don't sell to people that are neutral on the subject of color or gender. I never have made any effort to and am sure I never will. But there are not any DTF sons or daughters on the way here either. Is there frozen DFP semen? I wouldn't buy one but we don't buy foals. I'm not sure of the insurance rates on embryos. I need to call thought pretty quick here as I will have a couple ready to insure soon enough. There is DFP frozen semen available through 2 vets here in the US.
We insured our FG x RSE embryo this year. It was 15% of the value of the foal. |
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 Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | We have sold several in utero. We draw up a contract - I give the buyer a live foal guarantee - so no insurance needed (unless they want) if the mare slips or foal doenst get up and suck they can transfer that utero $ over to another foal of their choice. Its seemed to work out really good so far.
I dont think theres many risks as the seller -- having it all in contract of course. but as a buyer - you never know what youre going to get. (but neither does a breeder!) Just go off confo on parents, pedigree, etc and make sure you like everything and PRAY! :) |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
| I have bought three foals in utero... It worked out for two and one is in the oven, that said I have been screwed by people in the horse business so only have done it with breeders I know and trust, this next foal that I have reserved is a leap of faith(or stupidity) due to the fact I don't know the breeder, but, I researched her and asked around,(contacted past buyers from info on website) and we will see how it goes, I am a gambler I guess.... |
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 Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | just MY OPINION But I dont think i'd ever buy one in Utero. THAT BEING SAID. If it was a foal of a REALLY nice stud and a nice proven mare and they are offering the foal for sale for less than it would usually go for, I MIGHT take a gamble on it.
Other wise no, I wont sell mine in utero either. It can be a mess. |
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Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | Thanks for the input guys. It seems as though its split about down the middle. I'll know in a few months if everything went off without a hitch. So far, so good. |
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Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | rockinas - 2014-01-21 6:25 PM
TheOldGrayMare - 2014-01-21 5:49 PM ausranch - 2014-01-21 3:41 PM Interesting idea. I didn't realize you could insure an embryo - but of course you would be able to. So what are the rates on one of those policies? Someone brought up the gender issue - it's hard for me to imagine either a buyer or seller not caring about that. But if you really don't care a lot on gender, I think it's as good a time to buy as any. 50% seems fair enough considering cash flow and risk. Who does the foaling? That would be a handy thing about ETs - you can actually transfer the recip mare and the transaction is cleaner that way. As others have said, I'd love to sell mine that way. Well, I think I would . . . I think the reality would be less ideal because I don't sell to people that are neutral on the subject of color or gender. I never have made any effort to and am sure I never will. But there are not any DTF sons or daughters on the way here either. Is there frozen DFP semen? I wouldn't buy one but we don't buy foals. I'm not sure of the insurance rates on embryos. I need to call thought pretty quick here as I will have a couple ready to insure soon enough. There is DFP frozen semen available through 2 vets here in the US.
Thank you both. That's interesting.
Wow - 15% is steep! |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| rockinas - 2014-01-21 7:23 PM
I've sold a few embryos but not a foal in utero. I am scared to sell a foal in utero, surely if I did that, the mare would abort or something weird will happen. I sell first come first serve with a contract/deposit. Several of my foals sell before they are even a day old, this way. I'd just rather wait until they are safe on the ground but that is just me. That and I keep the fillies we get.....I only sell colts most of the time.
I'm with you - I'd rather wait until they foal out and then post them for sale. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I'm just wondering, if you said you would drop the price from what they cost when born...say on a DTF. His stud fee is 6500+500 booking. On the ground I think you can find a "cheap" DTF for 15,000. Soooo if I'm going to spend the money to buy in utero it's not much different than me spending the money on just breeding to him myself. |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | I don't care who the sire and dam are. I want to see them first. |
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 Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 4:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-21 4:07 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-21 1:50 PM I bought my sorrel filly in utero, I put the deposit on the foal in march.....filly was foaled in may. She is a granddaughter of frenchmans guy and mr eye opener. I had never bought a foal that way....but tried it anyways. I was happy with the deal, but both parents are appendix so I ended up with a grade filly.....but the seller was very nice and gave me half the money back on the filly. And I got a nice chromed out red head who I adore.
I wouldn't hesitate to do it again in a heartbeat......only if the foal can be registered LOL Oh wow, they didn't know???
I could go on......and on
Now that's a seller with integrity and morals. Good on them for making it right even though they had been taken by the stallion owner.
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Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | If the foal is by a high dollar stallion, then I agree that breeding one's own is a good alternative. However, buyinh in utero is not just about the stallion but also getting access to a good producing mare. I have bought two in utero, but it was by purchasing the mare who was already bred. One came out with way more white than I wanted, but it made him quite marketable. The other was a stunning colt who was everything I was looking for and ended up dying at several months old from an internal congenital defect. |
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Buying Foals in Utero