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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | So I heard that private sector unions have declined from a high of 35% of the work force in the 50s to 6% today.
Why is that? |
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 Don't Need Sugar Coating
Posts: 1183
Location: AR & OK | I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A GRAPH SHOWING THE DECLINE WITH YEARS AND MONTHS.IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO COMPARE IT WITH WHAT IS HAPPEN IN THE GOV AT THE TIME. |
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| Here ya are ...
http://moneymorning.com/2013/01/22/middle-class-decline-under-obama... |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | The unions let their power go to their head and it culminated in the Air Traffic Controller strike at which point Reagan broke the back of the unions. They have been backsliding ever since. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | komet. - 2014-01-21 8:16 PM The unions let their power go to their head and it culminated in the Air Traffic Controller strike at which point Reagan broke the back of the unions. They have been backsliding ever since.
True, but that was a public sector union. This is the decline in private sector union membership we're talking about. Also, if memory serves me, I think Reagan enjoyed a lot of union support back then. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-21 8:48 PM
komet. - 2014-01-21 8:16 PM The unions let their power go to their head and it culminated in the Air Traffic Controller strike at which point Reagan broke the back of the unions. They have been backsliding ever since.
True, but that was a public sector union. This is the decline in private sector union membership we're talking about. Also, if memory serves me, I think Reagan enjoyed a lot of union support back then.
I didn't help that they allowed the mob into their rank and file. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | I'll tell you what I think Doc. The unions stopped taking care of the people and were asking for too much at the same time. My brother worked at a plant back home that was union and they kept demanding more and more until the plant closed up and moved to a Right To Work state.. They were kind to the country.. Most of the plants moved everything out of the country. This was late 80s... Also a friend of mine worked for the labors union in Missouri for 12 years and got hurt on the job and all of a sudden there was no medical. This was back in the early 90s. There was a place for the unions way back when the coal miners needed help and formed their union. But they got too big for their britches. Eventually they drove jobs to China and Japan and other places outside the country.
Edited by komet. 2014-01-21 9:24 PM
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | The union, where I work, doesn't do much for their members. I pay almost $100 a month and don't feel it is worth it. A lot of people have gone from union to non union here. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think Komet touched on some good points and I think there are several reasons for the decline in unions. I think more and more the perception is they are known for corruption and thuggery. That dates back to before Hoffa and his ties to organized crime. Also, unions have driven jobs away, in some instances to "right to work" states. Increasingly they have become politically monolithic....basically a wing of the Democrat party, and yet individual union members themselves are more split down the middle as far as political affiliation. I think it's about a 60:40 split. Anytime you disenfranchise 40% of any group you have a problem on your hands. Many union members don't like the notion that their dues go toward the support of almost all Democrats, straight down the line. There was a time when unions endorsed political candidates based on their record and agenda, rather then strictly Democrats. This has undoubtedly weakened them a lot. Unions were behind the initiative to recall Scott Walker in Wisconsin, and those efforts were crushed. I was surprised to learn that even Michigan has become a "right to work" state, with all the powerful auto workers, etc... |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | My friends/husband employed/retired from aircraft plants like Boeing, Beech, Cessna often were forced to strike when they didn't feel the need to. The union bosses egged the striking workers on and while the workers were losing money day by day the union bosses sure as heck weren't. Many workers would give up their union memberships.
I remember when my favorite veterinary was treated to four flat tires on his truck when he turned into the driveway of a Boeing supervisor who wasn't honoring the strike. Nails scattered all over the driveway by a disgruntled union zealot.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I have seen more than my fair share of union members who do not do a good job, yet feel entitled to promotions because they have been in their position a long time. Not saying it's everyone by any means... but when it is impossible to fire someone, there are going to be more slackers.
My husband worked as a private contractor at a union facility for a previous employer. He had to fix a piece of equipment that a worker RAN THROUGH A CLOSED GARAGE DOOR WHILE DRUNK AT WORK. The guy got a two day suspension. (not sure if it was with pay or not). If I came to work drunk, I would be fired on the spot. That is inexcusable when you are working with very large machines that could easily kill someone on the jobsite.
Not only this, but many unions provide the same work for a MUCH higher price, making them less competitive to a prospective company that would pick them for a job when compared to hiring a non-union company.
Ex. a union painter in Chicago is paid scale, which is around 33-38 dollars/hour. I watched them paint a small room, and two to three people were working in the area. They would disappear for hours at a time, and the entire time only one person was working while the other was watching them. It took many days to get this small room painted.... and when they were done, it still looked cruddy. I painted my whole house in one night with two helpers... and it looked better than these professionals... so yeah.
The original reasons why unions were created (worker safety, limits on work week hours, employee benefits, etc)... they are governed by other laws and government entities..... I'm sorry, but I feel many organizations (not all) have outlived their relevance. JMO |
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Wonder if these guys are union.....
My son is a union member as is my husband and FIL> My son accepted a position with a utility (non-union) and said he does nothing most of day, goes to breakfast, lunch and hangs in the truck listening to music. He's says its a joke. He also said these guys couldn't hang with the transmission guys on his previous crew, they'd work them into the ground.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | JC, I know how you feel about unions. It's been good for you and your family, for sure. Why do you think they are on the decline? Do you see any changes that ought to be made that could restore unions? |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-22 7:53 AM JC, I know how you feel about unions. It's been good for you and your family, for sure. Why do you think they are on the decline? Do you see any changes that ought to be made that could restore unions? Not sure they need to be re-stored Doc. I do worry if they break the IBEW the wages will go down. There will always be people that WILL work for less. It's a dangerous job, one mistake on a 500kv line and you are vapor. My husband is always going to continuing ed, that's because its mandatory. My son who has been with the utility for a year now, has yet to go and asked if they go and was told no, only OSHA classes. (every 3 yrs) WHY?
As for a decline, union dues IMO are one of the problems, 4% is a lot of money.
Edited by justcruzin 2014-01-22 10:27 AM
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| I am actually a union council rep - I think they are on decline because (and I hate to say it), the union is "in bed" with the company on MOST issues. I became a council rep last year though because of the VERY unfair practices going on in my workplace - walking people out the door for no reason - at all - other than they were higher paid, older workers - yes, there is a law suit.
I see good and bad on both sides. Years ago when my company didn't have a union for the salaried workers, we were THE ONLY ones paying health care premiums (we all pay them now) - but stuff like this is why the union was organized here - blatantly treating the non-reps VERY differently than the represented. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 528
| I am a union utility worker and yes griz...you are right about sharing beds....and yes many here avoid work which infuriates some of us that love our jobs but i also got a notice yesterday that my dues were going up from $13/week to 55! They dont do anything for me and i am fortunate that I have never needed them to but after 29 years i am rather sick of the entire thing! |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | crazyowgirl63 - 2014-01-22 12:27 PM I am a union utility worker and yes griz...you are right about sharing beds....and yes many here avoid work which infuriates some of us that love our jobs but i also got a notice yesterday that my dues were going up from $13/week to 55! They dont do anything for me and i am fortunate that I have never needed them to but after 29 years i am rather sick of the entire thing!
This was something that happened to a relative of mine who is a VERY hard worker.
He would get so aggravated with those who did not put in their share of the work, and he would have to pick up the slack. Reporting them was frowned upon as "betraying the union brotherhood", so he just had to deal with it... sort of demotivating lol. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I wonder how union members feel about making contributions to the DNC using their dues....especially those members who aren't Democrats. I would think that is bothersome. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-22 12:45 PM I wonder how union members feel about making contributions to the DNC using their dues....especially those members who aren't Democrats. I would think that is bothersome.
my relative is retired now... I would venture to guess he was never happy about it in the past. |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | crazyowgirl63 - 2014-01-22 10:27 AM I am a union utility worker and yes griz...you are right about sharing beds....and yes many here avoid work which infuriates some of us that love our jobs but i also got a notice yesterday that my dues were going up from $13/week to 55! They dont do anything for me and i am fortunate that I have never needed them to but after 29 years i am rather sick of the entire thing!
55.00 per week, I'll trade ya. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| HotbearLVR - 2014-01-22 12:45 PM I wonder how union members feel about making contributions to the DNC using their dues....especially those members who aren't Democrats. I would think that is bothersome.
I am DEFINATELY NOT a democrat and yes, it IS bothersome! |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-22 10:45 AM I wonder how union members feel about making contributions to the DNC using their dues....especially those members who aren't Democrats. I would think that is bothersome.
It's not just the DNC it's everywhere, where does your money go? I asked my husband, he doesn't have a clue. Kinda like Uncle Sam. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | justcruzin - 2014-01-22 1:12 PM
HotbearLVR - 2014-01-22 10:45 AM I wonder how union members feel about making contributions to the DNC using their dues....especially those members who aren't Democrats. I would think that is bothersome.
It's not just the DNC it's everywhere, where does your money go? I asked my husband, he doesn't have a clue. Kinda like Uncle Sam.
I know, but unions rarely, if ever contribute to the GOP. That's what torques people. When was the last time unions showed up in force to campaign against a democrat, the way they did when they tried to unseat Scott Walker? |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| My husband was a union sheet metal worker for over 20 years. He stayed in it until the wheels fell off of the wagon of the company he worked for. At the beginning it was all good but over time the actual support from the union declined. The company he worked for regularly had bounced payroll checks. I would be infuriated, especially when the boss would be off to Mexico on vacation. The union rep said he could shut down the company but did the workers really want that? Then they went to pulling the dues out of their checks and not sending them to the union hall. It was beyond frustrating. At the time my husband backed the union to the hilt but now looking back he feels like a lot of it was a waste of money because they really weren't there to represent the workers, they were there to represent the companies. And Komet hit the nail on the head when he said the unions got into bed with the mob. My husband lost a lot of retirement over an "investment loss" because of that. And the "Right to Work" states do not help either - it means there will always be people willing to work for a lesser wage, they have that right to work - for less money, crappy conditions, and often for 'shady' outfits. His current job pays 20% less but it is a good job (state), stable, and he is much happier. His big complaint now is not enough work to do, he is not used to having to ask for things to do. |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-22 11:51 AM justcruzin - 2014-01-22 1:12 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-01-22 10:45 AM I wonder how union members feel about making contributions to the DNC using their dues....especially those members who aren't Democrats. I would think that is bothersome. It's not just the DNC it's everywhere, where does your money go? I asked my husband, he doesn't have a clue. Kinda like Uncle Sam. I know, but unions rarely, if ever contribute to the GOP. That's what torques people. When was the last time unions showed up in force to campaign against a democrat, the way they did when they tried to unseat Scott Walker?
They had a lot to loose, and they lost it. They were desperate. |
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Sideways Riding Expert
Posts: 11371
Location: ND--it snows, it floods, it snows, it floods | In my husbands previous roll as a route driver for his company he was in the Union but really didn't get anything out of it. The benefits aren't there anymore it seems like. He could still get most of the benefits of the union like the health insurance/retirement without paying the dues if he so choose. He stayed in because it was more of a hassle to get out then anything. He's now management and has to deal with the union. He says the younger guys won't/don't see the union benefits anymore like the older workers do and he understands it. Not to mention that their union head is being investigated for fraud and misuse of funds so who knows anymore. |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | komet. - 2014-01-20 10:22 PM I'll tell you what I think Doc. The unions stopped taking care of the people and were asking for too much at the same time. My brother worked at a plant back home that was union and they kept demanding more and more until the plant closed up and moved to a Right To Work state.. They were kind to the country.. Most of the plants moved everything out of the country. This was late 80s... Also a friend of mine worked for the labors union in Missouri for 12 years and got hurt on the job and all of a sudden there was no medical. This was back in the early 90s. There was a place for the unions way back when the coal miners needed help and formed their union. But they got too big for their britches. Eventually they drove jobs to China and Japan and other places outside the country. So agree...........and so did the Union workers........
Edited by CJE 2014-01-22 4:46 PM
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | CJE - 2014-01-22 2:41 PM komet. - 2014-01-20 10:22 PM I'll tell you what I think Doc. The unions stopped taking care of the people and were asking for too much at the same time. My brother worked at a plant back home that was union and they kept demanding more and more until the plant closed up and moved to a Right To Work state.. They were kind to the country.. Most of the plants moved everything out of the country. This was late 80s... Also a friend of mine worked for the labors union in Missouri for 12 years and got hurt on the job and all of a sudden there was no medical. This was back in the early 90s. There was a place for the unions way back when the coal miners needed help and formed their union. But they got too big for their britches. Eventually they drove jobs to China and Japan and other places outside the country. So agree...........and so did the Union workers........
The consumer helped drive those jobs out of the US, we want cheap, for example: look at all the Chinese (Vietnamese, Indonesia ect) crap sold at WalMart, look at how fast WM has grown and the amount of people who shop there. |
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Unions on the decline