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 Career in Looney Tune Land
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Location: the high desert | Is it common for a QH racehorse to get a little sore while racing?
Edited by Iwish 2014-01-29 9:42 PM
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| YES ... like any horse or person that has exerted itself ... the exercise tears down muscle tissue that needs to be rebuilt with light exercise such as a walker after the race to remove any lactic acid in the muscles, some bute and a good bathing. Next day walker for an hour to walk off any stiffness or soreness. Medicated mud is a common used item too. along with wrapping legs for drawing out inflammation at trainers digression ...
The more out of shape the more sore they will be and possibly injured.
Typical racing schedule is every 3-4 weeks if proper race is written and it gives horse time to rebuild muscles, get on the muscle and peak for the next race ...
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-01-23 2:02 AM
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7264
| Yes - like any other athelete. |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | stupid phone, it did not post the rest of my question. Thank you barrelhorseUSA for that indepth answer. I know that they will get sore since they are exerting themselves so much in one race but is it a common thing for them to be injected because they are sore? Im looking at a horse that the owner had injected a couple times in his front fetlocks because he started getting a little sore. No injury or swelling in the fetlocks though. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Iwish - 2014-01-23 12:49 PM stupid phone, it did not post the rest of my question. Thank you barrelhorseUSA for that indepth answer. I know that they will get sore since they are exerting themselves so much in one race but is it a common thing for them to be injected because they are sore? Im looking at a horse that the owner had injected a couple times in his front fetlocks because he started getting a little sore. No injury or swelling in the fetlocks though.
Racehorses get injected ALL the time. If the horse you are looking at has only had her fetlocks injected a couple of times she is either pretty sound for one coming off the track or she has a crappy vet looking her over.
There are quite a few trainers that will routinely inject 10 or more joints on a horse per race. Which is why it ts very important do do a PPE on OTT horses, it is also helpful if the owners will release vet records for the last few races. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Barnmom - 2014-01-23 1:07 PM Iwish - 2014-01-23 12:49 PM stupid phone, it did not post the rest of my question. Thank you barrelhorseUSA for that indepth answer. I know that they will get sore since they are exerting themselves so much in one race but is it a common thing for them to be injected because they are sore? Im looking at a horse that the owner had injected a couple times in his front fetlocks because he started getting a little sore. No injury or swelling in the fetlocks though. Racehorses get injected ALL the time. If the horse you are looking at has only had her fetlocks injected a couple of times she is either pretty sound for one coming off the track or she has a crappy vet looking her over.
There are quite a few trainers that will routinely inject 10 or more joints on a horse per race. Which is why it ts very important do do a PPE on OTT horses, it is also helpful if the owners will release vet records for the last few races.
Yikes! I wouldn't want to get that vet bill! I couldn't justify to my owners having to inject that many joints for one race on one horse. They would have a cow!
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Wow I didn't know race horses got injected that often. Well this particular horse was injected a couple times in the fetlocks becuase he was a little sore but it didn't do any thing so they didn't do anymore injections, raced him a few more times then they retired him. This owner was very conservative with the horse because he truly cares for his race horses and didn't want to ruin him. The horse only ran 11 times. Didn't run his first race till well into his two year old year 2008, raced a few times in 2009, couple times in 2010 then couple times in 2011 then that was it. |
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 I"m Jealous!
Posts: 1737
Location: Benton City, WA | I would suggest getting a thorough lameness/pre purchase exam with flexion tests and possibly xrays. Racehorses are in general more likely to have chips.
As far as racehorses getting injected- it totally depends on the trainer/owner. Many of the trainers around here, several of whom are personal friends of mine (admittedly not big money tracks) use nothing but bute and leg wrapping to manage their horses. If possible, it is nice to buy through a trainer that you know and trust. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | barrel_racing_angel - 2014-01-23 2:29 PM I would suggest getting a thorough lameness/pre purchase exam with flexion tests and possibly xrays. Racehorses are in general more likely to have chips.
As far as racehorses getting injected- it totally depends on the trainer/owner. Many of the trainers around here, several of whom are personal friends of mine (admittedly not big money tracks) use nothing but bute and leg wrapping to manage their horses. If possible, it is nice to buy through a trainer that you know and trust.
Wow yes, what she said. I have a few friends in the business and have never heard of a horse getting that many injections. If I was an owner I would be miffed. We bought a stud off the track that raced to 5 and he was bumped hard out of the gate in one race. They injected that shoulder once and he was good to go. I had him started on barrels and then sold him to Canada. To my knowledge he has never needed another.
Some trainers must be injection happy freaks. It would behoove them to condition better and hope for no bumps out of the gates. |
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 Saint Stacey
| total performance - 2014-01-23 12:27 PM Barnmom - 2014-01-23 1:07 PM Iwish - 2014-01-23 12:49 PM stupid phone, it did not post the rest of my question. Thank you barrelhorseUSA for that indepth answer. I know that they will get sore since they are exerting themselves so much in one race but is it a common thing for them to be injected because they are sore? Im looking at a horse that the owner had injected a couple times in his front fetlocks because he started getting a little sore. No injury or swelling in the fetlocks though. Racehorses get injected ALL the time. If the horse you are looking at has only had her fetlocks injected a couple of times she is either pretty sound for one coming off the track or she has a crappy vet looking her over.
There are quite a few trainers that will routinely inject 10 or more joints on a horse per race. Which is why it ts very important do do a PPE on OTT horses, it is also helpful if the owners will release vet records for the last few races.
That's why they use straight cortisone. It keeps the cost down.
When my folks still had horses on the track, the trainer thought they were insane when they insisted on the injections having HA as well because of how expensive it is. But they wanted horses that still had joints after racing. |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | So once a horse has been injected do they always need to be done? |
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Saint Stacey
| Iwish - 2014-01-24 5:32 AM So once a horse has been injected do they always need to be done?
Depends on the joints. Hocks, maybe not, depending on how quick they fuse. Knees shouldn't either. Ankles should be okay too.
If they are doing stifles and navicular, then usually once those start, they never seem to stop. Or that's been my experience at least. |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Ah I see. Hmm.... not sure what I want to do. |
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Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Iwish - 2014-01-24 9:59 AM Ah I see. Hmm.... not sure what I want to do. If the owner is being honest with you, then I wouldn't worry too much about the ankles being injected a couple of times.
Will they release her vet records to you?
I have seen LOTS of terrible shoeing at the track. Bad feet will make joints sore especially if the horse is wearing toe grabs. Just something to think about if you like everything else about the horse.
Edited by Barnmom 2014-01-24 10:13 AM
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I bought a 3YO in 2011 who had 9 outs on the track split between her 2 YO and 3YO year. I didn't PPE her, and she was sound when I got her. I injected her hocks once as a 4YO and nothing else… Then when she was 5, she started running sore so I had another lameness exam done on her and injected her hocks one more time. Didn't really improve anything. So anyway by the fall when I started vet school it occurred to me to radiograph her stifles for the chance of an OCD. She really wasn't LAME so I was thinking training/behavior at that point. Meanwhile, she was at my trainer and she was trying to work her through it as well, but she thought I had already ruled out her stifles. When I said I hadn't, she said take her home NOW and get them looked at. Vet found a big OCD chip her in stifle. We had the surgery to remove it, and she's recovered great. She will make her first run tomorrow.
Anyway, point being.. the OCD really can't be attributed to running on the track. More often than not, its a combination of heredity combined with nutrition as a foal, with other unknown factors thrown it. They can start to develop before they ever are broke to ride, or they can develop later. So, I wouldn't be scared to get another one off the track. The surgeon and my follow up vet both said she won't require any more or less stifle maintenance than a normal horse, and she shouldn't have to get injections BECAUSE of the stifle. They said if she ever does need stifle injections, it will be because of her job, not because of anything with her surgery.
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | I just asked if they would be willing to release the vet records to me. Im over thinking this I think lol. I have never bought a OTT horse before and you hear about all the terrible things that go on behind the scenes at the track and it makes me rather weary. The good thing though is I have heard from a few people that this owner is a good one. |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | total performance - 2014-01-23 1:27 PM Barnmom - 2014-01-23 1:07 PM Iwish - 2014-01-23 12:49 PM stupid phone, it did not post the rest of my question. Thank you barrelhorseUSA for that indepth answer. I know that they will get sore since they are exerting themselves so much in one race but is it a common thing for them to be injected because they are sore? Im looking at a horse that the owner had injected a couple times in his front fetlocks because he started getting a little sore. No injury or swelling in the fetlocks though. Racehorses get injected ALL the time. If the horse you are looking at has only had her fetlocks injected a couple of times she is either pretty sound for one coming off the track or she has a crappy vet looking her over.
There are quite a few trainers that will routinely inject 10 or more joints on a horse per race. Which is why it ts very important do do a PPE on OTT horses, it is also helpful if the owners will release vet records for the last few races.
Wowzers.....me neither! Nor do I want to own that horse in my barn after he's done at the track. Reminds of a story you and I were told recently about the frequency of bursa and coffin joint injections and the result it had on the foot of the horse. No thanks....there's a better way. If a horse is that sore, they shouldn't be going down the race track IMO. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Iwish - 2014-01-24 1:07 PM
I just asked if they would be willing to release the vet records to me. Im over thinking this I think lol. I have never bought a OTT horse before and you hear about all the terrible things that go on behind the scenes at the track and it makes me rather weary. The good thing though is I have heard from a few people that this owner is a good one.
how many outs has the horse had? |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Herbie - 2014-01-24 1:32 PM total performance - 2014-01-23 1:27 PM Barnmom - 2014-01-23 1:07 PM Iwish - 2014-01-23 12:49 PM stupid phone, it did not post the rest of my question. Thank you barrelhorseUSA for that indepth answer. I know that they will get sore since they are exerting themselves so much in one race but is it a common thing for them to be injected because they are sore? Im looking at a horse that the owner had injected a couple times in his front fetlocks because he started getting a little sore. No injury or swelling in the fetlocks though. Racehorses get injected ALL the time. If the horse you are looking at has only had her fetlocks injected a couple of times she is either pretty sound for one coming off the track or she has a crappy vet looking her over.
There are quite a few trainers that will routinely inject 10 or more joints on a horse per race. Which is why it ts very important do do a PPE on OTT horses, it is also helpful if the owners will release vet records for the last few races.
I had forgot about that story! A horse that needs that many injections just to get down the track doesn't need to be there. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | total performance - 2014-01-24 1:55 PM Herbie - 2014-01-24 1:32 PM total performance - 2014-01-23 1:27 PM Barnmom - 2014-01-23 1:07 PM Iwish - 2014-01-23 12:49 PM stupid phone, it did not post the rest of my question. Thank you barrelhorseUSA for that indepth answer. I know that they will get sore since they are exerting themselves so much in one race but is it a common thing for them to be injected because they are sore? Im looking at a horse that the owner had injected a couple times in his front fetlocks because he started getting a little sore. No injury or swelling in the fetlocks though. Racehorses get injected ALL the time. If the horse you are looking at has only had her fetlocks injected a couple of times she is either pretty sound for one coming off the track or she has a crappy vet looking her over.
There are quite a few trainers that will routinely inject 10 or more joints on a horse per race. Which is why it ts very important do do a PPE on OTT horses, it is also helpful if the owners will release vet records for the last few races.
Exactly.....and any trainer or vet who in injecting a horse just to get them down the track, just because, or when it isn't medically necessary doesn't deserve a license or practice. We don't need any more Dr. Bursa Injections. ;-) Know what I mean...... |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Herbie - 2014-01-24 2:07 PM total performance - 2014-01-24 1:55 PM Herbie - 2014-01-24 1:32 PM total performance - 2014-01-23 1:27 PM Barnmom - 2014-01-23 1:07 PM Iwish - 2014-01-23 12:49 PM stupid phone, it did not post the rest of my question. Thank you barrelhorseUSA for that indepth answer. I know that they will get sore since they are exerting themselves so much in one race but is it a common thing for them to be injected because they are sore? Im looking at a horse that the owner had injected a couple times in his front fetlocks because he started getting a little sore. No injury or swelling in the fetlocks though. Racehorses get injected ALL the time. If the horse you are looking at has only had her fetlocks injected a couple of times she is either pretty sound for one coming off the track or she has a crappy vet looking her over.
There are quite a few trainers that will routinely inject 10 or more joints on a horse per race. Which is why it ts very important do do a PPE on OTT horses, it is also helpful if the owners will release vet records for the last few races.
Edited by total performance 2014-01-24 2:54 PM
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | He had 11 outs very spread out over 4 years (2008-2011). Didn't start racing till late in his 2 year old year (only raced once in his 2 year old year) went fairly solidly in 2009, then a couple in 2010 then just a couple in 2011 then that was it. |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Ok so I got a little update. Turns out the reason he was sore is that he had a couple chips in his fetlock. He had surgery to remove them, which went well, and then he raced a couple more times after the surgery. They were not in the joint. I will have to call the vet office were he had the surgery done to find out the exact specifics. Should this be a deal killer though? I'm rather bummed because he is the kind of horse I have been searching for for a looooong time. I was really hoping he had just been injected to see if it would make a difference, not becuase of chips. I'm still going to call the vet office an find out as much information as I can. Any specific questions I should ask?
Edited by Iwish 2014-01-29 9:41 PM
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| So, the chips have been removed and surgery went well....horse then returned to racing with no ill effects?
If that is the case, it wouldn't bother me (but I'm probably not the best person to give advice either). |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | correct, correct and ...correct... after the surgery he raced either one more time or 3 more times (i will have to find out exactly when he had the surgery) if he only raced once more then that last race he placed last in (equibase says "no factor") if he raced 3 more times then he would have had a 6th place finish (2nd to last) follwed by a last place finish (equibase says "bothered break") followed by the other last place finish. |
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I AM being nice
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Location: MD | It doesn't bother me at all to have had chips removed on one. |
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I"m Jealous!
Posts: 1737
Location: Benton City, WA | WrapSnap - 2014-01-29 8:56 PM It doesn't bother me at all to have had chips removed on one.
Ditto- as long as they are sound. |
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| Iwish - 2014-01-29 10:39 PM
correct, correct and ...correct... after the surgery he raced either one more time or 3 more times (i will have to find out exactly when he had the surgery) if he only raced once more then that last race he placed last in (equibase says "no factor") if he raced 3 more times then he would have had a 6th place finish (2nd to last) follwed by a last place finish (equibase says "bothered break") followed by the other last place finish.
You can tell just like you are doing if they were placing and then dropped to the bottom in their following races is a bad sign ...
You can look at the amount of time between races and figure out when the long layoff was to get over the chip surgery ....... looks like the owner gave him a long time to see if he was going to run or not ...
If they started out like you say ..
first saying only got sore ... and
then he was injected which could mean nerve blocking etc etc ... since he had floating chips ......
and then they come back with he had surgery .....
I hate it when I have to dig the horses problems out of the owner or trainer and creates distrust in a hurry ... ... grrrr ... I usually will take a walk ...
Always keep in mind ... any kind of injection or chip surgery removes cartilage from the joint which never grows back .... so the long term use of the horse is going to be much shorter and vetting $$$'s required during this time .... each injection increases the wear and tear on the joint involved ...
So do your homework and decide on what he is worth to you to take a chance on ...
For instance: Found a mare I liked conformation wise and pedigree as a good crossover for my stud horse ... all I could get out of owner was she had a 2013 foal late and was not bred back ...............
I did a little checking... asked owner about the info I had .....>>> ... mare was bred and checked in foal in 2010.... ended up open in 2011 and bred back in 2011.... owner finally admitted she had a dead foal early in 2o12... bred her back in 2012 and got a late 2013 baby and left open so she sez ... open to breed in 2014 for a 2015 foal .... and still swears the mare does not have a breeding or carrying full term problem ...
owner was mad at me for doing my homework on her mare .....>>> I really liked this mare but taking the risk on just having one baby every 5 years was not worth it ..... so I said thank you and walked away ...
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Im not familiar with how long it takes to recover from chip removal surgery. One time he was off for 5 months, then another time off for over a year. The horse only raced 11 times in 3 years. |
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Saint Stacey
| I would still have the knees and ankles xrayed.
Look at it this way, it can cost between $25-$50 a day to keep one at the track. Typically you don't just keep one at the track and not running much unless:
a) You have an obscene amount of money and can waste it.
b) You are a trainer and you own the horse.
c) It's a heck of a nice horse that wins enough to have the down time.
I am very skeptical when buying OT horses. While you do have honest people, crooks are a dime a dozen in the racing world.
Just cover your bases if you decide to buy. |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | The answer to that would be B  |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | So the owner is the trainer?? Typically around here it's anywhere from 3-6 months down time for chip removal surgery. Depending on how the surgery went and the horse. And then you would start back slow with the horse, so the down time could be 9 months to a year. |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Correct. Then if that's the case he probably only raced one more time after the surgery based on equibase. |
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QH racehorse question/bone chips