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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
   
Location: North MS | Does anyone have any videos of horses that just do NOT like you to guide them around the barrels with your hands? Stories on how you worked with them or came to decide how they didn't want or need guidance?
I've got a young horse that I believe wants to work more on seat and less with me pulling on his mouth. I've tried bits ranging from ring snaffle part of the wonder bit, to the shank of the wonder bit, tender touch, martha josey million dollar bit (way too much bit!), simplicity bit, and finally I decided just to go back to the basics with a sherri cervi sliding gag (like the loomis) and we have been working on rating, stopping and transitions. I am just thinking he wants me to leave his head alone. Will continue on working towards more softness and collection of course, but wondering how people have determined this with their horses. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 805
Location: Montana | My gelding does not want me to touch his head at all on the 1st barrel, perfect example I was walking him through tonight and decided to drop the rein completely ( no hands mom moment) he walked around the barrel all on his own, perfect distance etc. I have been really have to focus on keeping my hand in the center of the reins and on his neck to turn, and just bump him with my inside leg. My big thing is he's huge (has to be pushing 16.2-16.3h) and wants to sometimes dump on his front end and slice, maybe it's me causing it by trying to help him. I have him in a short shank 3piece twisted Cervi, and I have tried him in a large oring combo with a small snaffle mouth piece and a loose chin strap, ( that's his other thing he hates chin straps) and on two and three I can help him if I need to, just not one. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Did you try a chain bit or there is a fat mullen bit that carolina bit and l and w sells, that add waddell uses, one will make one bendy other more stiffy. I had a mare like that what i did put a snaffle and pick up the inside and,made,here follow her nose and just zig zag and turn nice round circles. |
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 Leggs
Posts: 4680
Location: lexington KY | Here is a video of my sister and her horse, she can't really handle him, especially on the first barrel. He is very light on the pattern. If you watch the video turn the volume down, they were cheering loud.
http://youtu.be/5fNsvqKaBnM |
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Impressive!!
Posts: 1954
Location: Idaho | My mare is like this. I knocked many 1D barrels last year due to touching her when I should not have. My goal this winter was to hit the gym 5-6x a week and get stronger, fitter and able to really stay up on her neck this year (so far I am almost 4 months in and getting super fit yay). When I was working with my friend who is a great trainer, we put her in a Elliot spur up 02 bit and I made a run on her, I didn't touch her and she smoked it. Then I go to the next race, touch her and she braces on me. Hopefully I can get this figured out this year!! But watching the WPRA TV last night, I noticed Fallon Taylor does a great job not touching her mare in the turns, hand up her neck... Sherry Cervi is another one to watch on Stringray, she really guides that mare, usually with her inside hand up her neck as well... Lisa Lockhart too, she is very light and hand very solid on the neck. Maybe youtube those gals! Good luck I feel your pain! :) |
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 Expert
Posts: 1273
Location: South Dakota | I was just thinking about this the other day. I have a horse that I've worked on barrels but it doesn't seem like he's really getting it. Which is weird cause he's normally a quick learner. A couple weeks ago I took him around the poles and I barely handled him at all. In a very short time I would just sit at the first pole and he turned on his own and did a nice pattern. I got to thinking about how in contrast I "micro-manage" him around the barrels. I'm anxious for the weather to straighten up so I can try less handling on barrels. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 357
| Here is what not to do.. http://youtu.be/ltXS984r-0Y
That was my first run on him and did not what to do.. HaHa.. I just run him in a s hack. He is very light in the face and mouth. If I get in his way he will come back into the barrel. Just put my hand on his neck and lift his shoulder a tiny bit. We are still getting together but here is a decent run. You hear my dad yelling hold him
http://youtu.be/Q8dlww5MsmY
excuse the gate issues he is over them now just took some time... |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| My daughters mare doesn't need much help in fact she practices all the time with no bridle and last year I let her make a run at a small local gymkhana club with out her bridle on. I just walked her to the gate and pulled the bridle off she just had a neck rope on her, she will run poles like that as well. It is fun to watch her do it. I am not that brave ! |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Mine do not like to be touched and having only been riding for 4 years I don't have a problem with sitting up there like a bump on a long and leaving them alone. The girls took lessons from Jan Powell and if they needed tuning we left them with Jan. My girls quit riding so I started. All I do is keep them legged up, no tunning or drills. When we first got these horses you had to help them a little.
http://m.youtube.com/channel/UClglasNXSTukHH_cBKu6L_A/videos?view=1...
http://m.youtube.com/channel/UClglasNXSTukHH_cBKu6L_A/videos?view=1...
http://m.youtube.com/channel/UClglasNXSTukHH_cBKu6L_A/videos?view=1... |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| My gelding works best if I leave him alone. He's certainly broke enough that I *can* make adjustments if needed but he works best if I let him do his thing. I warm up with a Dutton shanked bit and no tie down to make sure he's "with" me, paying attention and light. I run in either a D-ring or a Simplicity with a loose head setter tie-down. It took several years for me to trust him enough to just let go. He's the fastest and quickest horse I've ever ridden and to just pitch the reins was REALLY hard. We were having trouble over shooting our first barrel so I'd start checking him, put more bit on and it got worse. One day I said well that's not working, just let him go and see what happens (I said a major prayer before that run - hehe). He had the nicest first barrel I've ever had and he won it with 180+ entries. It was so easy it was hard - if that makes sense. I feel like the end of last year I finally got it figured out. Hopefully I remember how to do this again in the spring! LOL There are several more videos on my youtube acct with varying degrees of me letting him work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqjWnRAn5bg
Edited by roanrider 2014-01-26 3:51 PM
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | This is a video of my great horse....he never liked me to mess with him much...and if I DID try to tell him where to go, it usually ended badly! lol Notice my reins are loose most of the way and I just put my hand down and use the rein against his neck to position him. He wouldn't let you pick him up...you just had to position him right. Most of my horses work like this....you can't go to pulling on them. They know their jobs and want you to let them do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eMHaE8Qz9k |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| roanrider - 2014-01-26 3:44 PM My gelding works best if I leave him alone. He's certainly broke enough that I *can* make adjustments if needed but he works best if I let him do his thing. I warm up with a Dutton shanked bit and no tie down to make sure he's "with" me, paying attention and light. I run in either a D-ring or a Simplicity with a loose head setter tie-down. It took several years for me to trust him enough to just let go. He's the fastest and quickest horse I've ever ridden and to just pitch the reins was REALLY hard. We were having trouble over shooting our first barrel so I'd start checking him, put more bit on and it got worse. One day I said well that's not working, just let him go and see what happens (I said a major prayer before that run - hehe). He had the nicest first barrel I've ever had and he won it with 180+ entries. It was so easy it was hard - if that makes sense. I feel like the end of last year I finally got it figured out. Hopefully I remember how to do this again in the spring! LOL There are several more videos on my youtube acct with varying degrees of me letting him work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqjWnRAn5bg
Beautiful run and beautiful quiet riding. |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| rodeomom3 - 2014-01-26 7:49 PM roanrider - 2014-01-26 3:44 PM My gelding works best if I leave him alone. He's certainly broke enough that I *can* make adjustments if needed but he works best if I let him do his thing. I warm up with a Dutton shanked bit and no tie down to make sure he's "with" me, paying attention and light. I run in either a D-ring or a Simplicity with a loose head setter tie-down. It took several years for me to trust him enough to just let go. He's the fastest and quickest horse I've ever ridden and to just pitch the reins was REALLY hard. We were having trouble over shooting our first barrel so I'd start checking him, put more bit on and it got worse. One day I said well that's not working, just let him go and see what happens (I said a major prayer before that run - hehe). He had the nicest first barrel I've ever had and he won it with 180+ entries. It was so easy it was hard - if that makes sense. I feel like the end of last year I finally got it figured out. Hopefully I remember how to do this again in the spring! LOL There are several more videos on my youtube acct with varying degrees of me letting him work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqjWnRAn5bg
Thanks. He's a pretty cool dude!!  |
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 Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: SoCal | My filly hates me on her face in the turn. I did a lot of softening and following my hand so I could guide her lightly and then I did a lot of complete circles around the turns. Now I try to get her into her pocket, ask for rate and drop my hand to let her work it. She turning much better now an is finishing her turns on her own without help from mom lol |
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 Expert
Posts: 3165
| i wish i had better videos from last years nbha state finals, my two horses are VERY different... the mare you have to leave alone and the gelding needs to be guided.
I have taught myself with my mare, especially at the second and third, to sit, say woah, go to my horn, and just lock my left hand in place, and let her work, I basically leave my left hand, where it should be when we leave our turn, so just as shes finishing her turn, straightening her head, and heading to the third, my hand is ready, and that allows me to actually get her to finish the turn better.
its almost as if we rate for the turn, and i just push my hand forward as to not touch her face at all through the turn.
last year at the finals, in the second go, i stupidly tried to handle her through the turn like i do my gelding, and she wrapped the barrel so hard and tight, she slammed her jaw on the top and was bleeding, you can hear the bang in the video... i will never do that again. |
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 BHW Cougar of the Year
Posts: 15992
Location: NM | I just bought one like this. Boy do I need help. Lol. I've never had one I didn't have to ride. Do you guys help them complete their turn with your hands? Do you two hand them until you're ready to turn the barrel? |
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 Expert
Posts: 2049
Location: Utah | My old man was like this and to this day still is, although now I can handle him if needed. It is really hard to adjust to especially if you are one who handles your horses a lot. I'm just the opposite of that now, I don't like to handle them at all... We figured it out, when I would pull on him he would run up the fence, when I would leave his face alone he would work. It took a lot of time and a lot of TRUST to finally get to where I would send him. I also put more bit on him just so I felt secure, and it was there if I needed it. I always make sure my horse respond to me and my seat and that they are broke broke so that if stuff happens it makes it easier to fix....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMPEyOfIeHk
Here is my other younger horse, you can see I don't handle him much either. I just work a lot on my body position and getting them to respond to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6aX_XB2qyU&list=FLvziCfaNsjKijmuWZP...
Edited by Snappy 2014-01-27 11:42 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | My little mare is like this. We fought many runs because I thought she was needing help but really she was trying to get me to leave her alone. I like my help my horses too much so I ended up making her reins a little bit longer so even if I'm trying to help I'm still staying out of her way. |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| lexyy12 - 2014-01-27 12:37 PM
My little mare is like this. We fought many runs because I thought she was needing help but really she was trying to get me to leave her alone. I like my help my horses too much so I ended up making her reins a little bit longer so even if I'm trying to help I'm still staying out of her way.
I lengthened my geldings reins too so there was no "accidental" touching. Helped a ton!!! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| bbennington - 2014-01-26 9:25 AM
Here is what not to do.. http://youtu.be/ltXS984r-0Y
That was my first run on him and did not what to do.. HaHa.. I just run him in a s hack. He is very light in the face and mouth. If I get in his way he will come back into the barrel. Just put my hand on his neck and lift his shoulder a tiny bit. We are still getting together but here is a decent run. You hear my dad yelling hold him
http://youtu.be/Q8dlww5MsmY
excuse the gate issues he is over them now just took some time...
wow.... thats a huge improvment!  |
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BHW Cougar of the Year
Posts: 15992
Location: NM | roanrider - 2014-01-27 9:50 AM lexyy12 - 2014-01-27 12:37 PM My little mare is like this. We fought many runs because I thought she was needing help but really she was trying to get me to leave her alone. I like my help my horses too much so I ended up making her reins a little bit longer so even if I'm trying to help I'm still staying out of her way. I lengthened my geldings reins too so there was no "accidental" touching. Helped a ton!!!
Good idea. I'll try that too. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 357
| spitzh - 2014-01-27 12:26 PM
bbennington - 2014-01-26 9:25 AM
Here is what not to do.. http://youtu.be/ltXS984r-0Y
That was my first run on him and did not what to do.. HaHa.. I just run him in a s hack. He is very light in the face and mouth. If I get in his way he will come back into the barrel. Just put my hand on his neck and lift his shoulder a tiny bit. We are still getting together but here is a decent run. You hear my dad yelling hold him
http://youtu.be/Q8dlww5MsmY
excuse the gate issues he is over them now just took some time...
wow.... thats a huge improvment!
Thank You.. That was my last run that year and have been off for two years since I had a baby.Now I have to start all over..
I love running that old guy.. He will be 21 this year.. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | I had one a few years ago. Said I would never ever have another. I'm working my tail off right now with one that wants me to stay out of his way. I want them bridle broke enough that I can position them in an instant to move us out of harms way. I'll try to show a video of a colt that I've started. The horse that I refered to earlier was a free running, dropped his hocks on the backside and take off again. He cost us many many nice runs because he wouldn't allow me to handle him at the first. I enjoy working with tuff cases but he took it to another level. Riding him did have rewards as he set several arena records when he was able to "lock in" with me. He was never consistent and you can't go down the road on inconsistency.
http://youtu.be/qU8t_CN0ASc
Look at what occured on the entry to the last barrel. It is that kind of motion that rocks the dirt and causes lost time. I've gone to a chain mouth piece bit for now. I have not dropped a hack on him for a run. I've thought about it but I really want him bridle broke.
Edited by uno-dos-tres! 2014-01-28 10:02 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 365
| I guess most people I know are different. I train mine to be automatic and not need help around the barrels, and almost every horse I've ridden has been that way. Some I've had to check and things but I always give them their head when turning.
Here is my gelding
http://youtu.be/FNEMZDVbXgc
This is a 3 year old colt I owned and started at his first show
http://youtu.be/_Hfzz02Cm0M |
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 I"m Jealous!
Posts: 1737
Location: Benton City, WA | dianeguinn - 2014-01-26 3:21 PM This is a video of my great horse....he never liked me to mess with him much...and if I DID try to tell him where to go, it usually ended badly! lol Notice my reins are loose most of the way and I just put my hand down and use the rein against his neck to position him. He wouldn't let you pick him up...you just had to position him right. Most of my horses work like this....you can't go to pulling on them. They know their jobs and want you to let them do it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eMHaE8Qz9k
I'm with Diane... I try to train all of mine so that they work on a loose rein. More fun for me and them!
The horse that really taught me to change what I was doing with my hands was a crazy athletic AAA mare, and if I pulled on her on the back side of the first barrel, she would come back on the same side and I would just about get left in the dirt!!! Cured me of that habit real quick! LOL
This video is of my gelding- he is probably the horse that I have to handle the most because he is naturally very free running.You can see me check him with both hands before the third barrel. He was hauling @$$! The method I use I got from Lance Graves: inside hand on the neck to start the turn and to finish you bring it out to the side (not back) I was taught anytime you pull straight back you are shortening the horses stride, which you don't want to do if you're trying to be fast. Lots of people do it different though, and are successfull in their methods. Its just what is comfortable for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL-IZaVwYOs
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | This guy took to things on his own I just kinda sorta guide him. I run him with a looser rein for my sake. hes pretty cool :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7hOdmTDRks |
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 Nothing Comes Easy
Posts: 2353
Location: Texas | My mare is like this. Guide around the barrels, however, if you touch her coming out of the first barrel.. Watch out, she'll take you the opposite direction. I'm still trying to figure this one out. It's not a soreness problem, it's a "I don't want to be helped" problem. She turns and commits, gets to where she should finish the turn and we fall apart. I'm back to the drawing board doing exhibitions to clear this up. Second and third- beautiful! The first... Meh. Any ideas? |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | This is honestly the hardest type of horse for me to run. I'm normally sitting on ones with issues, or seasoning young/green horses, so I'm always having to position something. I do have one mare in particular that I can use my hand to set up the turn on, but after that, I set me inside hand on her neck and let her do her job. I have to float my hand away from her neck at the first, as if I were to close my upper body enough to place my hand against her neck we would crash it. Even in that turn though, you will see that I do not take contact.
P.S. For those of you who don't remember this video.... Turn the volume WAAYY down. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVp7OGJ2Z6w |
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| This horse wants to work every run. But, if I touch her she will get stiff and come up in her turns. I can run her in practically nothing. A Little S, a snaffle, a leather draw gag. But, have to just guide her around and not fight her to be "round".
Here is a video: You can see I get a little on her face on the back side of the first barrel and her head comes up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQNudo3rtjM
Edited by barrelracinbroke 2014-01-30 10:39 PM
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 I Want a "MAN"
Posts: 3610
Location: MD | WrapSnap - 2014-01-30 9:19 PM This is honestly the hardest type of horse for me to run. I'm normally sitting on ones with issues, or seasoning young/green horses, so I'm always having to position something. I do have one mare in particular that I can use my hand to set up the turn on, but after that, I set me inside hand on her neck and let her do her job. I have to float my hand away from her neck at the first, as if I were to close my upper body enough to place my hand against her neck we would crash it. Even in that turn though, you will see that I do not take contact. P.S. For those of you who don't remember this video.... Turn the volume WAAYY down. lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVp7OGJ2Z6w
I ran Kitzel at Brandons when he had her and I remember that! I had to really leave her alone. That was the prettiest run I think I've ever seen her make with anyone you ran her perfectly. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | CE's wrapn3 - 2014-01-31 8:08 AM
WrapSnap - 2014-01-30 9:19 PM This is honestly the hardest type of horse for me to run. I'm normally sitting on ones with issues, or seasoning young/green horses, so I'm always having to position something. I do have one mare in particular that I can use my hand to set up the turn on, but after that, I set me inside hand on her neck and let her do her job. I have to float my hand away from her neck at the first, as if I were to close my upper body enough to place my hand against her neck we would crash it. Even in that turn though, you will see that I do not take contact. P.S. For those of you who don't remember this video.... Turn the volume WAAYY down. lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVp7OGJ2Z6w
Thank you! Some daays aare better than others, for both of us! lol |
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Leaving horse alone in turn- videos anyone?