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 Veteran
Posts: 173
 
Location: Wyoming- where its always windy! | Just wondering if racers prefer to whip their horse or just kick, and reasons for your decision. There seems to be almost an equal number of those who do whip or use the over and under and those who just kick. If you do whip, which do you use and why?
Thanks! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: lone star state | Great post!
I try watch a lot of pro runs. Pick people who u like their style and youtube them or watch them.
I think a lot depends on your horse and running style. I like sherry cervi dena kirkpatrick and others who ride quiet. In my opinion you don't see a lot of people who "flog" their horses kicking and whipping have much long term success.
Personally I use a soft leather over and under - its outa my way til I need it. I want to encourage my horse to run and not force them to run. Also I try to whip my pant leg and boot top more to hussle and not cause my horse to dread being pushed but to enjoy the game as much as I do. |
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  Independent Cuss
Posts: 3977
  
Location: Dearing, GA | If I can pull my stuff together during a run, I'll use an over under on the way home from third. Otherwise I just kick. I rarely carry a quirt/crop/over under with me, even. That was on the last horse I ran though, I've got an up and coming horse who I may work differently. It will all depend on how he feels. |
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Tell It Like It Is
Posts: 22025
Location: Wyoming | Only if I feel him quite me. I have found less is better.
It is a pet peeve of mine to watch people trying to whip that would do so much better if they would just concentrate on their riding. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| realitycheck - 2014-01-26 2:06 PM Only if I feel him quite me. I have found less is better.
It is a pet peeve of mine to watch people trying to whip that would do so much better if they would just concentrate on their riding.
This ^ |
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Veteran
Posts: 173
Location: Wyoming- where its always windy! | Totally agree. I don't whip my mare, she's so sensitive I think it would crush her. She does great with just kicking and hissing. I guess I just wonder if people really get that extra little bit out of whipping as opposed to not, assuming of course their horse isn't trying to cheat them |
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Veteran
Posts: 297
| I forget where but there was a study done that showed that whipping a horse would not make it go any faster then just kicking. I saw the article on this study last year.. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 304
Location: Up and over to the right | I sit and kiss and my horse takes off like a bat outta hell! Depends on the horse I'd say.
At my first race I kicked my horse harder than usual and he stopped dead in his tracks.... Sensitive pansy that horse is…. |
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 Queen Boobie mascot
Posts: 706
Location: Mayerthorpe Alberta | i should just whip myself and maybe i would ride correctly! lol
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | I didn't whip my old guy (even before he was old). I felt like he was giving me all he could give anyway and I think whipping would have just made him lose his head.
There may be some horses that need that extra incentive to get off their butt, but some I think are willing to give you all they have without it. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I wish I could find the video of my daughter on one of her step up horses. He would flat out fly through the straights but would not dig like that in the barrels. He was 3d at big shows and she was determined to crack the 2d. She knew not to over whip and popped him 1 time between barrels and once going home. His tail swished each time but he never sped up once-same pace the whole run. It was pretty funny, he was going to run his race :). No more whipping after that.
Edited by rodeomom3 2014-01-26 8:09 PM
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| On the way home in pens where we have room I will whip a couple times. It brings out the TB in him and he'll flatten out and fly.
I prefer the over and under, but usually have better luck getting to the whip faster with a quirt... |
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Regular
Posts: 87
| lurker - 2014-01-26 7:07 PM
i should just whip myself and maybe i would ride correctly! lol
Did that (not on purpose though!!) still didn't help much, I still rode like a monkey that day LOL.
On my horse I use a whip, especially in deep sand, I'll give him a smack in between every barrel and going to first since he doesn't like to run as hard always in that stuff. I find it helps him, or at least then I stay off his face and let him turn the barrel right. My times are definitely better when I use one (at least when I use it right) I prefer an over n under on him.
That being said, when I run my mom's horse, she hates being whipped in any way. We haven't tried one with her since she's fast enough without one, but the lady who we bought her from who trained her said she hated whips. She does best with lots of kissing and hissing, and coming home a slap on her neck with my hand is all she needs to be winning fast.
But it drives me crazy when you see people who don't know how to whip right and do more harm than good, even though that was me a couple years ago too. They only work is used right, on the right horse. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | When I was a teenager, I for some reason thought I needed a whip for during my run. Not sure why it wasn't yanked out of my hands and thrown away, because all it did was slow everything down. Not sure why the trainer I had at the time didn't throw it away for me, because bettering my timing and horsemanship would have shaved way more tenths off than what I was attempting with that whip. I looked pretty goofy and can't stand to watch old runs because all I end up saying is- WHY WAS I ALLOWED TO RUN WITH THAT STUPID WHIP?
I prefer to NOT whip during a run, and just pick up an over and under on the way home. I started whipping in-between my barrels on Tank, and honestly I felt him rate harder at his barrels so I think I will stop. Also, I couldn't find my over and under running home a couple runs back and I swear he ran out just as hard as when I whip him. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1031
Location: Oklahoma | I have one, big AAA race bred horse that rates way too hard/early on the 1st and 3rd even if im still kicking like crazy. He responds much better to a lil spank. My other horse is straight cow bred but runs so hard, I just hold on until I get to my spot and try to stay in the middle. |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | I carry a whip of some kind on every one of my horses. How I use it varies with the horse though.
On Clifford, I am carrying a dressage whip in my right hand so I can tap his inside shoulder if he starts to shut down early going to the 2nd or 3rd barrel (he runs left at the present time). I don't think I used it today and he was 11th out of 94 with a wild loop on our way to the third. He loves to run so doesn't need much encouragement. The whip is just a reminder to me to not sit down and quit riding just yet. If I think about tapping his shoulder, then I stay square and don't inadvertently cue him to rate early.
On Chance & Joker, I carry a leather over & under, banded to my belt. I will use it between barrels and on the homestretch if they aren't really hustling. When I head to the alley with Chance, I swat my leg with the whip to make noise and help get him wound up to run. Joker doesn't like being hit with a stick whip and since I can only swing an over & under once or twice, he doesn't get mad and I actually get a response. I have used stick whips on Chance too but I have a tendency to over-use it and the over & under limits me. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 372
Location: Missouri | I won't use a whip but not opposed to people who use them correctly and effectively. One swat between barrels and one home is reasonable to me. But I hate nothing more than seeing rider's relentlessly whipping their horse every single step of the way home. |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | realitycheck - 2014-01-26 2:06 PM Only if I feel him quite me. I have found less is better.
It is a pet peeve of mine to watch people trying to whip that would do so much better if they would just concentrate on their riding.
Amen sista |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Not really a fan. I tend to think if they like it enough, they'll run on their own. I don't like to run one who doesn't like the pattern. If they are slowing down for some reason, they probably need a vet check or some time off. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | I use both......I use a dressage whip......for in between and an over n under for home.......I do not always use them but if I need them they r handy...M |
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I Wanna Go Fast!!
Posts: 12556
| I'm not a fan of whipping, I can't use an over n under without focusing on it and not my horse so it's best for me if I just don't. Unfortunately I have been blessed with a horse who apparently won't clock unless I'm whipping him. He wasn't even running 4d times and was shutting down (rounding back and trying to stop) as soon as I came out of the 3rd. I decided to pack a bat the next run and we were 2nd in the 1D. Whipped him a couple more runs, he was 1D/2D. Decided to try it again without and he was 4D. I only have a handful of good runs on him but I'm hoping that after a couple more times he will be freed up and I won't need the bat. I know it throws my timing off and I look like a monkey humping a football, but I guess if it's what he needs to clock.....he's always been a lazy horse so I guess he just needs motivation. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: SoCal | realitycheck - 2014-01-26 12:06 PM
Only if I feel him quite me. I have found less is better.
It is a pet peeve of mine to watch people trying to whip that would do so much better if they would just concentrate on their riding.
I too agree with this. Nothing bothers me more than endless whipping. I never understood people who whipped (and I mean whipped) during the turns. If my horse is slowing down too much I just smooch, no need to spank them. My gelding hates whips, he's high as a kite anyways. My old mare if I whipped once coming home she would open up and soar. I used an over and under with her and it ended up costing my more time trying to find it, so I just took it off. My filly though could probably use one for encouragement to open up and keep speed in her turns. I try not to kick her when she knows its a money run, because she knows the difference and gets mad if I try to steal her light lol now I just sit there squeezing with my legs, kissing and with my hands mid way up her neck. Like that she flys as well. So I probably wouldn't use a whip during an actual run, but rather during practice if that makes any sense. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | I tried an over and under one time to see how my mare would work with it rather than my hand whip and I was more focused on trying to do that than ride so I never used it again. I hate watching people just continuously whip and not ride. I also hate to watch people be too worried about picking up the barrel than riding. 95% of the runs I watch the turn would have been perfect and the barrel would have been up if you kept your hand off of it. |
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| I always pack an over and under but only use it if I feel like my horses need a little encouragement to get across the timer line. If a horse is shutting you down during a run, training a horse to respect and wait for you cues can do much more than whipping can, even on a naturally very ratey horse. However, I truly believe that if used correctly an over and under can help lengthen a horses stride and during a competative run you need to be able to react to any situation and need to be prepared just in case. That being said, I also believe that any form of whip will do quite the opposite if used repeatedly or incorrectly. (Over and unders are not meant to spank a horse's rump but should be used in front of the back cinch essentially where you would also incourage a horse using your legs, and bats or quirts are also meant to be a quick reminder of things such as picking up a shoulder, again not to be used to repeatedly spank a horses rump. IMO) |
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| It depends on the horse for me.
My sister has one you have to whip from the time you leave the gate all the way through the straits until you get back home. The only time you stop whipping is in the turns. Kicking does him no good, he doesn't respond. If you don't agressively whip him through the pattern he's 3D at best. If you do whip he steps it up to 1 and 2D depending on the race. He's a lazy pig to ride. Even just loping him out you have to ride him with something to give him a little tap or you will be so tired of kicking after 40 minutes your legs feel like jell-o.
I've never personally had one that whipping benefited. They all tucked tail and shut down.
Edited by cyount2009 2014-01-27 11:04 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | I have a rope over an under that I use just at shows. He usually runs real good at home but when we are somewhere else I have to use it. He won't get into his highest gear without it going home. I don't do it too hard though, just a little swish swish to get his attention. |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | I use an over under on one horse I pop him after he comes out on the 2nd and he'll start motoring around and run harder then a couple taps on the way out. If I overdue it on him he'll be heartbroken.
My appy, he's got a lot more grit and he does good with a little kicking but I'm pretty sure he'd dump me if I did the crazy kicking.
I also agree with someone's opinion about watching riders over ride their horses. It seems like if they'd quiet down some and stop flopping and focus on riding it would make for much better runs. But then again I'm not winning the checks most of them are winning so what do I know, maybe it does work. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| My gelding shuts down to early when running home. We dont have alleys around here. I will pick up my over and under and pop him once or twice to keep the momentum going. |
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 Hero of the Year
Posts: 10767
Location: Haslet, Texas | I think it all depends on what the horse will tolerate. Some might need that little tap to take that last step into the pocket...some might get lazy running out and quit you. Some, on the other hand will just keep setting the more they get whipped. I don't like to see a horse get spanked through the whole pattern. They are eventually going to stop running for you. It also depends on how handy you are with using your hands and to not make it a distraction.
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 Regular
Posts: 56
Location: Alberta | I had a gelding that I just sold who I felt wasn't giving his all during our runs so I started carrying a stick whip on him and I would whip him in-between barrels. Our times weren't any faster and we didn't slow down either so I realized that he was already giving it his all so I quit whipping him. I had a mare that I had trained on the barrels for some people and I was running her last summer and I started to carry a soft leather over and under on her. One run I whipped her when we were starting our run and she shut down hard on all the barrels I had to really ride her to keep her going. The next run on her I only whipped her when we were running home and she picked up a whole new gear. I only pick up the over and under after we are a couple of strides away from third and I never look down to try and find it, if I look down I quit kicking. I usually tuck it into a belt loop or use a hair band to keep it back at my hip. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | I always try to remember that less is more. (I know someone already said that but it describes it perfectly!)
At one point, I fell into the "hole" of kicking and whipping to get my horse to go faster.  When I finally laid off him and let him do his job, he started winning the 1D locally. 
I keep my hands quiet during a run, squeeze with my calves or bump lightly (NO kicking), and encourage them with my voice. My horses seem to respond well to that.
Ultimately, it depends on the horse. There are some out there that need a little smack with the whip or over/under to light a fire under them. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | doram993 - 2014-01-27 4:01 PM I had a gelding that I just sold who I felt wasn't giving his all during our runs so I started carrying a stick whip on him and I would whip him in-between barrels. Our times weren't any faster and we didn't slow down either so I realized that he was already giving it his all so I quit whipping him. I had a mare that I had trained on the barrels for some people and I was running her last summer and I started to carry a soft leather over and under on her. One run I whipped her when we were starting our run and she shut down hard on all the barrels I had to really ride her to keep her going. The next run on her I only whipped her when we were running home and she picked up a whole new gear. I only pick up the over and under after we are a couple of strides away from third and I never look down to try and find it, if I look down I quit kicking. I usually tuck it into a belt loop or use a hair band to keep it back at my hip.
Try this if you are having trouble finding it - loop a few rubber bands togther into a chain, and then loop them around your belt or belt loop to where you can easily 'scoop' it up without looking. Here's a pic of it, and a video that should show how easy it is to find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tVuL6cgi9U&feature=c4-overview&list=UU3h0VmyuYbqBRUor4JBQVlA
 (2013 Over and Under IMG_4528.jpg)
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 2013 Over and Under IMG_4528.jpg (60KB - 221 downloads)
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 A Bit of a Grammar Nut
Posts: 1788
Location: floating down a river | No whip. Waste of time and a distraction rather then just riding. |
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Veteran
Posts: 165
| chasincans85 - 2014-01-26 3:06 PM
Totally agree. I don't whip my mare, she's so sensitive I think it would crush her. She does great with just kicking and hissing. I guess I just wonder if people really get that extra little bit out of whipping as opposed to not, assuming of course their horse isn't trying to cheat them
I agree. Why whip a horse that is trying it's heart out. I think my mare would be very resentful toward me and barrel racing if I started whipping her. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7264
| A lot of people throw their horse out of balance when they move all around trying to whip. Less is more for me, I try to ride quiet. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| I saw the article that said whipping only caused barrel horses to hate their jobs and it doesn't make them go any faster. Who ever wrote it obviously was not using my horse. Man she will crawl if you don't whip her and make her mad right before the run and coming home. She is very push style and likes an aggressive, yet out of the way type ride. I use a quirt because I can't use an o&u as well. |
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| I usually end up whipping myself. I used I over and under and hit myself in back fat. Hurt so bad so decided no more. Smooching works good for my horse |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| heidiinaz - 2014-01-29 4:40 PM
I usually end up whipping myself. I used I over and under and hit myself in back fat. Hurt so bad so decided no more. Smooching works good for my horse
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1031
Location: Oklahoma | Well...after last night, I will not try whipping with my left hand again. I managed to over & under my face. Tricky, I know!!!  |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Quick3 - 2014-01-29 4:52 PM
Well...after last night, I will not try whipping with my left hand again. I managed to over & under my face. Tricky, I know!!!
I wrapped my over & under around my ear during a run in September. Shortly after that I discovered the rubber band trick that I shared in a previous post. I did over & under Chance's ears Sunday somehow, but I haven't gotten myself again since I started banding the over & under to my belt and beginning my run with the whip looped around my right hip and then behind the cantle of the saddle. |
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | When I tried T-Bo, I was told he didn't like whips or spurs. I've owned him over 3 years and still have never used either on him. He gives me what he's going to give each time... if he isn't running quite as hard as normal, I feel like he just didn't feel as good, or maybe I didn't ride enough during the week. He is also a sensitive horse, so I don't want to upset, or "punish", him.
I have used a bat in the past and would use one again if I ever ride a horse that needs one. I never mastered the over and under LOL. |
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