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 Extreme Veteran
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| I have a 7 yr old hard keeper .. I had her on purina ultium when I first got her , she loved it but I didn't see enough results to keep her on it. I put her on Triple crown senior 2 months ago, it has put a good amount of weight on her, but she just does not like it.. I love the stuff but she doesn't . She will eat it , it has done wonders for her weight . I don't know if it's the texture of the feed or how soft it is being a senior feed. I tried her on purina senior before the TC & she was the same way about it. So my question is what high fat feed options do people recommend ? Id sure like to stick with a fixed formula if possible . I have access to triple crown , purina , nutrena , & adm. I need a feed she loves again that puts / keeps weight on her ! It took me 5 months to finally get her looking good again, & I still think she could use some more before she's perfect. Just as a side note I have had her teeth done, treated for ulcers .. I know her & I know she just isn't liking the TC senior unfortunately :( also she is a hotter horse.. But she wins alot for me so I just want her happy & eating something she loves :) any input would be great. thanks in advance ! | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 411
    Location: Smack in the middle of WA! | I used purina amplify in the past on a thoroughbred gelding that I was having a hard time keeping weight on. It worked great for him! Currently though I am using renew gold on a mare that needs some weight. I have added forco to it and she also gets a few pounds of barley as well. This is a very hot mare and she is doing great on it! Holding her weight and not acting like an idiot! Lol! I've tried some of the other weight fain products and just didn't have great luck with them. I've never had a horse even attempt to eat the cool calories. They didn't like it at all! I'm hoping the addition of forco to her feed will help her better utilize what she is taking  | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 428
     Location: God's country | I feed a 7% fat feed that our local co-op carries. I don't know where you are located, but I am in the south so it might be a regional thing. Called Structure/Tiz Whiz and it's a pellet. I also feed rice bran. I have a lot of hard keepers and like them to look slick. I think the rice bran helps with that. Good Luck  | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 406
    Location: New York | I would try triple crown complete. It's 12% fat 12% protein. There senior that your currently feeding is 10%fat 14%protein. But is it possible your horse has ulcers? Could be why she is finicky and not holding the weight. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| I might go to the complete .. Was just worried about the NSC % but she'd probably be fine . Treated for ulcers & no change .. She started this when I switched feeds . So I'm positive she just doesn't like something about it. I could try the rice bran too :) I hear alot of good about that ! Thanks for the advise guys ! Keep it coming :) | |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
    
| Probiotics and rice bran. :)
Cool calories for the super skinny kids along with the above. :) | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
 
| Omegatin is a high fat additive, never not had one that would not,eat cool calories. There are a ton of things that will,fatten one up alfalfa cubes or southern states has a hay replacer alfala-locs or southing like that.
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 Extreme Veteran
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| Any more actual feed suggestions ? If rather have a good feed to where I don't have to add all these supplements. She won't eat any of them in the TC senior , I know that! So I need a feed option to try to see if she likes it any better . I will give the TC complete a try I think.. Then if she still doesn't like that I may have to go back to ultium I guess.. *sigh* why can't my horses just be normal lol | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 193
    Location: USA | Nutrena, ProForce is the BEST feed I have ever used!!! It has 14% protein and either 11 - 13% fat and like 15% fiber. One of our TB's is a SUPER hard keeper and we've tried everything, Rice Bran, Beet Blup, Cool Calories, you name we've fed it to try and put weight on him. We've also gotten his teeth floated and checked for ulcers but he just wasn't gaining no weight. So we started feeding him this and he LOVES it! It doesn't make him hyper even if you leave him in a stall for a couple days and he's also a hot horse but he's very calm and I don't have to lunge him before I ride cause he's not so high strung. With this feed he focus's his energy. And he gained weight from skin and bones to fat and he looks like a QH in a month! I was feeding him a scoop in morning and a half in the evenings tho.  | |
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 Extreme Veteran
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| What is the texture like if the nutrena pro force ?? Pellets ? | |
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Member
Posts: 19

| Beet pulp, and Step 6, also try worming him with silver lining even if hes up to date it does miracles!
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | Where are you located?
Nutrena offers a feed that is a lot like TC Senior but it's only available in certain states and will probably have to be special ordered by your dealer. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 193
    Location: USA | It's got mostly pellets but I think it may have a little bit of beet plup in it as well. The texture tho is kinda like senior feed, ya know a little molasses maybe? But overall, its's a REALLY good feed. I've never had one like it and I feed it to all my horses and all of them look great! Around here it's like 19-20 bucks a bag :) | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| Well darn .. I looked it up & it's not available in my state .. I'm in MO. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 193
    Location: USA | Well, you might want to see if your local feed store can try and order it for you. I live in NC and my local tack & Feed store orders it for me :) | |
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| If your horse likes the high fat feed that is made from used French fry and fried catfish grease from restaurants ..... feed him all he can eat .... if you ever saw this crap in their grease traps ... you would apologize to your horse and never feed anything above 4% fat from natural plant sources ...
I have to grin when people feed this crap to their horses and then demand fat free foods when they go to a restaurant to eat ....
Look at your ingredients in your high priced feed you are feeding .. ... waste products and more waste products ... and then everyone wonders why old horse feels bad all the time ... lol ..
What do you buy for yourself to eat that has high fat content in it???
Just curious ... | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:43 PM
If your horse likes the high fat feed that is made from used French fry and fried catfish grease from restaurants ..... feed him all he can eat .... if you ever saw this crap in their grease traps ... you would apologize to your horse and never feed anything above 4% fat from natural plant sources ...
I have to grin when people feed this crap to their horses and then demand fat free foods when they go to a restaurant to eat ....
Look at your ingredients in your high priced feed you are feeding .. ... waste products and more waste products ... and then everyone wonders why old horse feels bad all the time ... lol ..
What do you buy for yourself to eat that has high fat content in it???
Just curious ...
What the heck are you talking about?
Triple Crown uses rice bran, flax, and soy oil as fat sources.
Last I checked restaurants used peanut oil.
And performance horses need high fat diets. It is far more healthy to feed high fat, high fiber, than high starch. A WHOLE lot healthier.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Humans and horses are FAR from the same.
Edited by hlynn 2014-01-29 8:53 PM
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 Veteran
Posts: 193
    Location: USA | Not to be mean or rude, BARRELHORSEUSA, but horses and humans are very much different. We don't order high-fat content food because if we did it'd put a toll on our horses being over-weight and trust me I know I'm 190 pounds. And losing weight and I can tell a BIG difference in my riding I'm muc more balanced and centered over my horse than I am flopping everywhere when I was 230. My horse's back isn't sore and she's willing to go out riding anytime without being sore. People aren't suppose to have that much fat like our athlete of barrel horses need. They need so much because they are TRULY athletes. They work anywhere from 3-6 days a week an hour or more a day so yea, they need a little more protein and fat in their diet to keep them looking good and that "fat" in the feed builds not only builds fat where they need it but that soon turns into solid muscle to help them run barrels. | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:43 PM If your horse likes the high fat feed that is made from used French fry and fried catfish grease from restaurants ..... feed him all he can eat .... if you ever saw this crap in their grease traps ... you would apologize to your horse and never feed anything above 4% fat from natural plant sources ... I have to grin when people feed this crap to their horses and then demand fat free foods when they go to a restaurant to eat .... Look at your ingredients in your high priced feed you are feeding .. ... waste products and more waste products ... and then everyone wonders why old horse feels bad all the time ... lol .. What do you buy for yourself to eat that has high fat content in it??? Just curious ...
Maybe JUNK feed.. most higher Quality grains with fat added is not what you are insinuating.. you must feed cheap junk if you think it is..
http://training.ifas.ufl.edu/Equine2011/Equine11_Warren_FeedingFat/Warren%20Feeding%20Fat%20to%20Horses.pdf | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | Fat = energy
Carbs = energy
Carbs is short term energy. Fat is long term energy. This is why distance runners are thin. Their body fat is their fuel. And sprinters are muscled up like weight lifters.
Yes, barrel horses ARE sprinters. But not like you'd think. They do need SOME starch for that short burst of energy. But what do you do to condition them? Long trot, breeze, long trot some more. So you're burning fat. And that body fat needs replaced or else you're left with a thin poor looking horse.
High fat is healthy, especially for hard keepers and high performance athletes. | |
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| When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol
Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle??
Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ...
Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ...
http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation...
Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol ..
http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do...
You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ...
I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals ..
I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words ....
*******************************************************************
I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed ....
Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ...
I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol
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Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-01-29 10:15 PM
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 10:49 PM
When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol
Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle??
Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ...
Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ...
http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation...
Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol ..
http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do...
You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ...
I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals ..
I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words ....
*******************************************************************
I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed ....
Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ...
I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol
********************************************************************
Do you realize the negative health effects that corn can have on the horse's body? How about oats? Oats are ok in moderation, but in high amounts can cause A LOT of metabolic issues, including ulcers.
Corn is HORRIBLE for horses. Period.
The first three ingredients in the feed the OP is talking about (Triple Crown Senior) is beet pulp, alfalfa meal, and what middlings (a protein & fiber source). Ingredients also include rice bran, flax seed, soy oil, soybean meal, soybean hulls, and then the ingredients added to meet the needs of the horse in amino acids, minerals, and vitamins. And also some pre and pro biotics for digestion.
Is it perfect? No. But it is FAR from being junk. I would rather feed TC Senior than ANY feed containing corn, organic or not.
You're extremely close minded. Wake up and read up on EVERY kind of study, not just what's been done that says processed feeds are bad.
There are junk feeds out there, but the Nutrena ProForce, Triple Crown Senior, and a few other choice feeds are NOT junk feeds. Period.
And no one said fat turned into muscle. If you would READ FOR COMPREHENSION, I said that FAT MEANS ENERGY. Which is what a BARREL HORSE needs. Not a human.
Stop comparing a high needs equine athlete to the regular woman on the street. We don't run/jog for miles a day. We don't sprint up to 40 miles an hour. We don't weigh 1200lbs. So stop. You're making yourself look extremely stupid and ridiculous.
Edited by hlynn 2014-01-29 10:41 PM
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | I use high fat or added fat grains so i can reduce the amount of grain being fed therefore less digestive issues.. it also adds calories to a diet and helps horses maintain or add weight. triple crown or ADM are high quality .. if you have a easy keeper or obese Id not recommend high fat grains. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
     
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 8:43 PM
If your horse likes the high fat feed that is made from used French fry and fried catfish grease from restaurants ..... feed him all he can eat .... if you ever saw this crap in their grease traps ... you would apologize to your horse and never feed anything above 4% fat from natural plant sources ...
I have to grin when people feed this crap to their horses and then demand fat free foods when they go to a restaurant to eat ....
Look at your ingredients in your high priced feed you are feeding .. ... waste products and more waste products ... and then everyone wonders why old horse feels bad all the time ... lol ..
What do you buy for yourself to eat that has high fat content in it???
Just curious ...
Our digestive tracts are different, in a horse the hind gut breaks down the fat where the stomach processes the simple carbohydrates.
I know in Canada a list of the ingredients is posted/listed on each bag. Majority of our feeds alfalfa is the first ingredient.
What I give my skinny horses when I have them is what ever feed I am feeding all the others then I add half to a cup of whole flax seed I grind up immediately before giving. This will make your horse bloom I swear. If I think they are nutrient deprived (starved) horses I will gradually add red cell to their diet.
If your horse is not on free choice hay, I would suggest trying this as well | |
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| hlynn - 2014-01-29 10:38 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 10:49 PM
When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol
Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle??
Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ...
Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ...
http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation...
Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol ..
http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do...
You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ...
I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals ..
I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words ....
*******************************************************************
I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed ....
Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ...
I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol
********************************************************************
Do you realize the negative health effects that corn can have on the horse's body? How about oats? Oats are ok in moderation, but in high amounts can cause A LOT of metabolic issues, including ulcers.
Corn is HORRIBLE for horses. Period.
The first three ingredients in the feed the OP is talking about (Triple Crown Senior ) is beet pulp, alfalfa meal, and what middlings (a protein & fiber source ). Ingredients also include rice bran, flax seed, soy oil, soybean meal, soybean hulls, and then the ingredients added to meet the needs of the horse in amino acids, minerals, and vitamins. And also some pre and pro biotics for digestion.
Is it perfect? No. But it is FAR from being junk. I would rather feed TC Senior than ANY feed containing corn, organic or not.
You're extremely close minded. Wake up and read up on EVERY kind of study, not just what's been done that says processed feeds are bad.
There are junk feeds out there, but the Nutrena ProForce, Triple Crown Senior, and a few other choice feeds are NOT junk feeds. Period.
And no one said fat turned into muscle. If you would READ FOR COMPREHENSION, I said that FAT MEANS ENERGY. Which is what a BARREL HORSE needs. Not a human.
Stop comparing a high needs equine athlete to the regular woman on the street. We don't run/jog for miles a day. We don't sprint up to 40 miles an hour. We don't weigh 1200lbs. So stop. You're making yourself look extremely stupid and ridiculous.
Lady you sound just like a democrat with your name calling and misinformation ...
half the diseases in horses are imagined by barrel racers with a new disease every 2 years ....... and they believe all of the marketing crap and pretty pictures on the high priced bags ...
The benchmark for all milled horse feeds is corn, oats, alfalfa and good quality hay... then for higher profits they find waste products to add to the volume so the bag will still weigh 50#'s to increase their profit margin at your expense .........
The most famous horses in the world lived their entire lives on products made by Mother Nature and not some marketing scheme like we see today to increase their profits ....
I haven't even mentioned all the heavy metals and alien chemicals used in the extruding process while creating the human food waste products you are feeding to your horses ... nor the affect they have on organs, brain or muscles in horses .... your horse feed producers are dang sure NOT going to mention any of these to you ... lol
And the only reason I wanted you to scan and show your feed tags was so you can't cherry pick the ingredients in the feed you are feeding like you did ..........
For those who care ... if you see alfalfa (16+% protein) or soybean meal (44% protein) listed .. these two are used to raise the protein level in the feed .... .... If you see 15-16%+ fiber in your feed you are paying dearly for ground up corn cobs or wheat stubble ...
Have a nice day ... I am going to go see what Obama and the NSA thinks about our feeding horses discussion .... ...
FAT IS FAT NO MATTER WHO IS EATING THE ICE CREAM CONE ... just ask Michelle Obama ...... lol
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| Well I could care less about Obama , that's for sure. Clearly I've missed alot since I've been gone ! Lol anyways back on subject .. Lets just ignore the people's comments that clearly don't know much . If I didn't feed my horse fat , she'd be rail lol shes already on all the hay she can eat also .. I hear adm feeds are good .. But I'm not familiar with any of them at all. What's a good feed by them that might suit my horse ? | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 830
     Location: Paradise , tx | 3rustycans - 2014-01-29 6:40 PM I would try triple crown complete. It's 12% fat 12% protein. There senior that your currently feeding is 10%fat 14%protein. But is it possible your horse has ulcers? Could be why she is finicky and not holding the weight.
I just started using theTriple Crown complete. I have a 25 year old, and a 10 year old My senior loves the Triple crown. Actually both do, but the 25 year old is attacking it! I started using it because my senior is looking old Anyway,after comparing it to their senior feed, I decided to go with the complete, as I like the ingredients, nutrition listed better. Not saying I won't switch to the senior later, but decide to go this route for now. Seems to working ok at this point but really hasn't been long enough to really judge. | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | RodeoRider97 - 2014-01-29 8:51 PM Not to be mean or rude, BARRELHORSEUSA, but horses and humans are very much different. We don't order high-fat content food because if we did it'd put a toll on our horses being over-weight and trust me I know I'm 190 pounds. And losing weight and I can tell a BIG difference in my riding I'm muc more balanced and centered over my horse than I am flopping everywhere when I was 230. My horse's back isn't sore and she's willing to go out riding anytime without being sore. People aren't suppose to have that much fat like our athlete of barrel horses need. They need so much because they are TRULY athletes. They work anywhere from 3-6 days a week an hour or more a day so yea, they need a little more protein and fat in their diet to keep them looking good and that "fat" in the feed builds not only builds fat where they need it but that soon turns into solid muscle to help them run barrels. While I agree with most of what you're saying -- fat doesn't turn into muscle. Fat provides a steady source of fuel (energy) AND in the proper forms lubricates joints along with other benefits such as insulation, a healthy coat & skin, healthy hooves etc.. A lack of fat will cause the 'burn' of protien ( the building block of muscle) for energy.
Fat is needed in the human for brain function, joints & some other things. In addition, there's a growing segment that believes the steady elimination of fat from our diets is contributing expotentially to our overweight issues in this country. Fat keeps the digestion system going & insulates. A lack of the propert amounts of 'fat' consumption cause the body to store it & slows metabolism.
ie: it's a balancing act but all three feed sources are necessary for a healthy horse and more & more, the research is leaning toward higher fat diets than we've seen in the past. Our mare thrives on a higher fat / lower carb diet with a good dose of protien. Remove those fat calories and she starts looking like a waif through the rear & hips but maintains a belly.
eta: I loved everything about ADM Senior Glo & Moorglo combined. In the winter we were feeding 2lbs of the senior & 1 lb of moorglo with all around great results. However, I can't get the seniorglo anymore so I just switched to TC Lite with Purina Amplify added for fat content & I'm starting at a 2/1 ratio which if I did my calculations correctly will give her the same nutrient, protien, nsc & fat content as she was getting. I'm crossing my fingers we get the same results. I wanted a fixed formula feed, too
Edited by dme0324 2014-01-30 7:37 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| Hm .. You guys are making me lean towards the TC complete ! :) how high of an NSC is too high for most of you? I know. 20.6% is the TC complete .. I've had her on ultium before though & she seemed totally fine on it & it is 16% NSC & and has corn in it.. | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | hlynn - 2014-01-29 8:16 PM Where are you located? Nutrena offers a feed that is a lot like TC Senior but it's only available in certain states and will probably have to be special ordered by your dealer.
The Pro Force isn't available in South Dakota. I feed the Nutrena Safe Choice Sr to one of my geldings as he needs a very low starch feed. It has 8% fat. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | I feed the tc complete with a bit of rice bran
It works well | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | hlynn - 2014-01-29 10:38 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 10:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ******************************************************************** Do you realize the negative health effects that corn can have on the horse's body? How about oats? Oats are ok in moderation, but in high amounts can cause A LOT of metabolic issues, including ulcers. Corn is HORRIBLE for horses. Period. The first three ingredients in the feed the OP is talking about (Triple Crown Senior ) is beet pulp, alfalfa meal, and what middlings (a protein & fiber source ). Ingredients also include rice bran, flax seed, soy oil, soybean meal, soybean hulls, and then the ingredients added to meet the needs of the horse in amino acids, minerals, and vitamins. And also some pre and pro biotics for digestion. Is it perfect? No. But it is FAR from being junk. I would rather feed TC Senior than ANY feed containing corn, organic or not. You're extremely close minded. Wake up and read up on EVERY kind of study, not just what's been done that says processed feeds are bad. There are junk feeds out there, but the Nutrena ProForce, Triple Crown Senior, and a few other choice feeds are NOT junk feeds. Period. And no one said fat turned into muscle. If you would READ FOR COMPREHENSION, I said that FAT MEANS ENERGY. Which is what a BARREL HORSE needs. Not a human. Stop comparing a high needs equine athlete to the regular woman on the street. We don't run/jog for miles a day. We don't sprint up to 40 miles an hour. We don't weigh 1200lbs. So stop. You're making yourself look extremely stupid and ridiculous.
Corn & oats are over 40% starch. Not all horses can have that. | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-30 12:03 AM hlynn - 2014-01-29 10:38 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 10:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ******************************************************************** Do you realize the negative health effects that corn can have on the horse's body? How about oats? Oats are ok in moderation, but in high amounts can cause A LOT of metabolic issues, including ulcers. Corn is HORRIBLE for horses. Period. The first three ingredients in the feed the OP is talking about (Triple Crown Senior ) is beet pulp, alfalfa meal, and what middlings (a protein & fiber source ). Ingredients also include rice bran, flax seed, soy oil, soybean meal, soybean hulls, and then the ingredients added to meet the needs of the horse in amino acids, minerals, and vitamins. And also some pre and pro biotics for digestion. Is it perfect? No. But it is FAR from being junk. I would rather feed TC Senior than ANY feed containing corn, organic or not. You're extremely close minded. Wake up and read up on EVERY kind of study, not just what's been done that says processed feeds are bad. There are junk feeds out there, but the Nutrena ProForce, Triple Crown Senior, and a few other choice feeds are NOT junk feeds. Period. And no one said fat turned into muscle. If you would READ FOR COMPREHENSION, I said that FAT MEANS ENERGY. Which is what a BARREL HORSE needs. Not a human. Stop comparing a high needs equine athlete to the regular woman on the street. We don't run/jog for miles a day. We don't sprint up to 40 miles an hour. We don't weigh 1200lbs. So stop. You're making yourself look extremely stupid and ridiculous. Lady you sound just like a democrat with your name calling and misinformation ... half the diseases in horses are imagined by barrel racers with a new disease every 2 years ....... and they believe all of the marketing crap and pretty pictures on the high priced bags ... The benchmark for all milled horse feeds is corn, oats, alfalfa and good quality hay... then for higher profits they find waste products to add to the volume so the bag will still weigh 50#'s to increase their profit margin at your expense ......... The most famous horses in the world lived their entire lives on products made by Mother Nature and not some marketing scheme like we see today to increase their profits .... I haven't even mentioned all the heavy metals and alien chemicals used in the extruding process while creating the human food waste products you are feeding to your horses ... nor the affect they have on organs, brain or muscles in horses .... your horse feed producers are dang sure NOT going to mention any of these to you ... lol And the only reason I wanted you to scan and show your feed tags was so you can't cherry pick the ingredients in the feed you are feeding like you did .......... For those who care ... if you see alfalfa (16+% protein ) or soybean meal (44% protein ) listed .. these two are used to raise the protein level in the feed .... .... If you see 15-16%+ fiber in your feed you are paying dearly for ground up corn cobs or wheat stubble ... Have a nice day ... I am going to go see what Obama and the NSA thinks about our feeding horses discussion .... ... FAT IS FAT NO MATTER WHO IS EATING THE ICE CREAM CONE ... just ask Michelle Obama ...... lol
Good grief -- you are both making some valid points. LOL, this is what my daughter is doing her science fair project on right now.
SO, quit argueing & being so combative because it's about sharing knowledge not brow beating each other.
The OP did say she is looking for a fixed formula feed -- they are out there, but few and far between these days & in some areas (like ours) -- you can't get much of anything because Nutrena & Purina have such a lock on the market so you do the best you can with what's available & what fits your pocketbook. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | Ingredients of TC Complete: IngredientsShredded Beet Pulp, Cane Molasses, Whole Oats, Soybean Oil, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Middlings, Alfalfa Meal, Soybean Hulls, Distillers Dried Grains, Ground Limestone, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Defluorinated Phosphate, Salt, Magnesium Oxide, Yeast Culture, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Anise Seed, Fenugreek Seed, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Kelp Meal, Copper Proteinate, Lecithin, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Stabilized Rice Bran, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, Flaxseed, Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Choline Chloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sodium Sesquicarbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Brewers Dried Yeast, L-Lysine, Monosodium Phosphate, Lignin Sulfonate, DL-methionine, DL-methionine Hydroxy Analog, (Propionic Acid, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate (Preservatives)). (Free from Restricted Ruminant Protein Products per Title 21, CFR 589.2000) - See more at: http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/products/feeds/upgraded-horse-diet-h...
You are going to have fillers in any commercial grains... but not grease from a deep fryer... | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
      
| I feed molasses free beet pulp, the amount according to the horses needs and feed Progressive Pro add ultimate for vitamins and minerals- 1 measuring cup am and pm. They have access to round bale, get a little alfalfa and have 75 acres to graze. Horses look and feel great, I get compliments on them all the time. Here is a great article about the glycemic index in feeds and how it effects the horse. The lower the glyccemic index the better the feed performs with a slow release of energy as opposed to sugar highs and lows. I have one that the seller said was hard to keep weight on in the heat of our summers but he does great with my feed program. Glycemic Index You’ve probably heard this terminology at some point or another: glycemic index. This “buzz phrase” has been circulating among informed horse owners for several years now, but what is glycemic index? Why is it important in equine nutrition? Glycemic index is a system used to rank carbohydrates based on their effect on blood glucose levels. Devised by Canadian scientists in the early 1980s, the system compares available carbohydrates gram for gram in individual feedstuffs, providing a numerical, evidence-based index of postprandial glycemia (the level of glucose in the blood after a meal). Though originally developed for humans, the system been modified and proven reliable for horses. Carbohydrates that break down quickly during digestion have the highest glycemic indices. On the opposite end of the spectrum, carbohydrates that break down slowly, releasing glucose gradually into the bloodstream, have the lowest glycemic indices. A lower glycemic index suggests a slower rate of diges- tion of sugars and starches in the foods. A lower glycemic response is believed to create a lower insulin demand, better long-term blood glucose control, and a reduction in blood lipids. “In human studies, the measurement of blood glucose and insulin response is known as a suitable tool for assessing the effects of food processing on starch digestion,” said Ingrid Vervuert and Manfred Coenen in a paper titled “The Glycemic and Insulinemic Index in Horses,” published in Advances in Equine Nutrition III (J.D. Pagan, editor). “In humans, starchy foods have been classified over the entire range from ‘restrained,’ or low glycemic and insulin response, to ‘rapid’ with respect to effects on blood glucose and insulin response after a meal. The resulting glycemic or insulinemic index utilized white bread as the standard source, and all foods were ranked accordingly.” A similar ranking has been established for horses based on research performed at Kentucky Equine Research (KER) (Table 1). Both cereal grains and forages are included in the table. The values shown in Table 1. Glycemic index (GI) of equine feeds and forages. Feed Glycemic Index Sweet feed..................................................................129 Whole oats..................................................................100 Beet pulp and molasses ..................................................94 Cracked corn .................................................................90 Re-Leve®1 .....................................................................81 Beet pulp (unrinsed)......................................................72 Orchard grass hay ..........................................................49 Rice bran ..................................................................... 47 Ryegrass hay .................................................................47 Alfalfa hay ....................................................................46 I.R. Pellet2 and orchard grass hay.....................................34 Beet pulp (rinsed)..........................................................34 Bluestem hay ................................................................23 1Re-Leve, KERx, Versailles, KY, 1-888-873-1988, www.kerx.com 2I.R. Pellet, KERx, Versailles, KY, 1-888-873-1988, www.kerx.com A publication of Kentucky Equine Research, Inc. • 3910 Delaney Ferry Road • Versailles, KY 40383 USA • 859-
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 7:35 AM Hm .. You guys are making me lean towards the TC complete ! :) how high of an NSC is too high for most of you? I know. 20.6% is the TC complete .. I've had her on ultium before though & she seemed totally fine on it & it is 16% NSC & and has corn in it..
I think the NSC content depends on what your horse can tolerate and if there are other health issues such as PSSM. The PSSM horse, I believe the recommendation is to keep the total NSC below 10%.
Give me a few minutes & I'll try to post a copy of my spreadsheet comparing the ADM Senior Glo / Moorglo combo and what I'm using now, TC Lite with Amplify added.
Again, I really, really loved the ADM products. Farted around for a month and half trying to wait for an ADM rep to pick me up some feed before I finally threw the towel in & decided I had to find something else. However, it is a soft pellet which I think you said your horse didn't particularly like. Also, don't rule out adding FORCO -- it's reasonable & the results are pretty amazing. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
      
| From the Chronicle of the Horse: Fix It With Feed Part 7: High-Fat Diets Can Solve More Than One Problem Adding oil to your horse's diet is an excellent way to increase fat intake. Photo by Molly Sorge. This is the seventh article in the "Fix It With Feed" series. Check back every Wednesday for more articles on nutrition and how it affects performance. In the world of human nutrition, fat is usually a bad word. However, for horses, a high-fat diet can help solve a myriad of issues. Not only will additional fat aid with the obvious issue of weight gain, but it’s also a good source of “cool” energy, may improve skin and coat quality and can even help prevent tying up. “There are no real negatives to feeding a high-fat diet except the possibility of feeding too many calories,” said Olivia Martin of Performance Feeding. “Feeding a horse to be overweight can trigger other problems such as metabolic disorders and unneeded stress on joints and other structures. However, hard-to-keep horses and highly strung/excitable horses benefit from high fat diets. Horses suffering from conditions such as chronic tying up and Polysaccharide Storage Myophathy also benefit from a high-fat diet.” Why Feed Fat? One of the first questions people ask about a high-fat diet for horses is: Is it natural? The answer is no, but that’s no reason to avoid fat. In the wild, horses would get all the calories and nutrients they needed from grass and other forages. However, today’s sport horses have decreased access to forage and increased caloric demands due to exercise, so they need supplementation in the form of concentrates. “They aren’t designed to eat fat, but they can cope with it,” said Tania Cubitt, Ph.D., a nutritionist withPerformance Horse Nutrition LLC. “Horses don’t have a gall bladder, and in humans, the gall bladder stores bile, which breaks down fat. The liver in the horse can produce some bile to break down fat. We have determined through science that they can deal with fat in their diet, and it’s better than feeding high amounts of sugars and starches.” Fat contains 2.25 times more energy than cereal grains such as corn or barley, so when you increase fat in the diet, you can feed fewer pounds of feed. However, if you’re supplementing fat to your horse’s regular feed, be careful not to cut back too much on his concentrate ration. Commercially formulated feeds only provide your horse with the nutrients he needs if you follow the manufacturer’s recommendations at mealtime. The digestion of fats does not increase blood sugar, and horses digest fat very efficiently in the small intestine. Given two to three weeks to adjust, horses can digest up to 20 percent fat in their total diet, although it’s only practical to feed them that much in a research setting. (That’s why it’s OK for horses to eat high-fat diets and not humans—a high-fat diet for a human might consist of 60-70 percent of total calories from fat or more!) In the past, pre-formulated high-fat feeds weren’t as readily available, but today we have many more options. A concentrate ration with 3-4 percent fat may be perfectly appropriate for an easy keeper in light work, but many performance horses benefit from more fat in their diet. “Fat gives the horse physical energy without increasing mental energy. Feeding fat can also benefit a horse’s skin and coat condition,” said Martin. “The fat content of the ration does not affect the protein needed by the horse. Fat is an energy source only.” High-fat diets enable horses in intense situations, such as pregnant or lactating mares, or horses working at high levels, to safely and more efficiently meet their energy requirements. In the case of hard-working horses, a horse can use fats to help keep their muscles working during stressful situations. However, it’s important to remember that horses need time to adjust before they can digest fat easily. If you choose to switch your horse to a high-fat diet, do so slowly and well before a competition so his muscles can use the new source of energy efficiently. The Omegas Another benefit of feeding fat is the addition of omega fatty acids into the diet. Omega fatty acids have been shown to benefit humans and other animals in a variety of ways, and studies are just starting to come out that show the benefits for horses. Benefits may include: - Increased plasma and red blood cell levels
- Increased semen quality post freezing or chilling in breeding stallions
- Reduction in inflammatory response to exercise
- Improved vitamin E status in horses fed supplemental vitamin
- Reduction in inflammation caused by arthritis
Omega 3 and Omega 6 are essential fatty acids—nutrients that a horse must get from feed rather than producing internally. The horse needs a balance of Omega 3s to Omega 6s, but we don’t yet know what the best ratio is. “The natural diet of horses—primarily fresh and dried forages—contains more Omega 3 fatty acids than diets consisting of a mixture of forage and cereal grains,” said Martin. “Domesticated horses are often fed concentrated sources of energy in the form of grain meals. Grains possess more Omega 6 fatty acids than forage, creating a balance of Omega 3 to Omega 6 fatty acids that may be inappropriate, especially when diets are high in grain.” Omega 3s are thought to be anti-inflammatory in the body, and Omega 6s are thought to be pro-inflammatory, and both are necessary. So the idea is not to eliminate Omega 6s from the diet, but to look for ways to supplement Omega 3s, especially for horses with less access to good pasture. Percentage Of Omega 3s And Omega 6s In Common Fat Supplements Chart courtesy of Tania Cubitt, Ph.D. Ingredient | Omega 3 | Omega 6 | Rice Bran Oil | 1% | 39% | Corn Oil | 1% | 58% | Soybean Oil | 7% | 51% | Canola Oil | 11% | 21% | Flaxseed Oil | 53% | 16% | Fish oil is another excellent source of Omega 3s. Fat Sources 101 Most commercial feeds already have some amount of fat in them, but the level varies greatly depending on the product. Cereal grains, such as corn and oats, are high in carbohydrates but low in fat. Oils, on the other hand, are 99 percent fat. Therefore, adding oil to your horse’s diet is one of the easiest methods for increasing fat intake. Flax seed is another source of fat and may be fed as an oil or ground meal. There are, however, some drawbacks to flax. “Large amounts of flax aren’t palatable,” said Cubitt. “I recommend it a lot, but more for the Omega 3 fatty acids. For sheer weight gain, you need to feed two to three cups of oil a day on top of a high-fat ration, and for some reason they don’t like the taste of it. And it can be quite costly.” Another issue with flax is that the seeds must be ground for horses to get the benefit, as they can’t digest the seed coating. “As soon as you grind it, you expose the inside to oxidation and hence rancidity. That’s why you have to put it in the fridge,” said Cubitt. “If you’re going to buy it in bulk, keep the seed in a cool dry place and grind it as needed. Ground flax is not as potent as straight flax oil for calories because it’s got the fiber in there.” Rice bran is another option for additional fat, and it comes in pelleted or extruded versions. However, it only contains 20 percent fat. There are also numerous fat supplements on the market. However, it’s important to read the ingredients list. Fat can come from a vegetable or animal source, but animal fat is not as palatable to horses. Animal fat is only about 75 percent digestible, whereas vegetable fat is 95 percent. In small intakes of fat, the digestibility is insignificant, but when a horse consumes a large amount, such as when he is on a high-fat diet, the fat that isn’t digested can upset the balance of microbes in the hindgut. It’s fine to feed a small amount of fish oil in order to add Omega 3s to your horse’s diet, but look to the vegetable fats to add substantial amounts of fat. | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | Hey, Rodeomom - thanks for the links & articles. LOL, we're doing more research this weekend & you unwittingly just really helped with the project my daughter's working on! :) | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | Well that didn't work so well -- let me know if you want me try again -- I can't figure out how to just copy & paste it..... The link breaks the columns into 2 pages so it's hard to read.
Edited by dme0324 2014-01-30 8:06 AM
Attachments ----------------
Lassie's Feed Analysis Share.pdf (91KB - 261 downloads)
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ********************************************************************
Purina list the ingredients, actual name of stuff, on the bag. I can walk out to my barn and get a bag for you. Is it my fav feed, no but I know what's in it. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| Thanks for the articles ! I love to read them .. Has anyone actually switched from TC senior to TC complete or vice versa? Notice if your horse liked one more than the other ? | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | yes but you have to do it slow and keep them on it 30 days..to much flipping around d the horse will develop gut issues..have you tried just beetpulp and alfalfa pellets and add her supplements to it
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-01-30 8:49 AM
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
           Location: Kansas | I personally like safechoice perform, it's a low starch grain.......I love it. My weanling was starting to get sunk in and looked terrible on the previous grain...I put her on this along with calf manna and she is filling out nicely. Plus my finished mare looks better than she ever has, and my coming 2 year has really filled out. I feed CM, and also a rice bran would probably benefit as well
Safechoice Perform Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein: 14.0% Lysine: 0.80% Methionine: 0.30% Threonine: 0.50% Crude Fat: 9.0% Crude Fiber: (max.) 15.0% Dietary Starch: (max.) 20.0% Sugar: (max.) 8.0% Calcium: 0.90 - 1.20% Phosphorus: 0.70% Copper: 50 ppm Zinc: 160 ppm Selenium: 0.60 ppm Vitamin A: 3,000 IU/lb Vitamin D: 350 IU/lb Vitamin E: 120 IU/lb Biotin: 0.45 mg/lb SafeChoice® Perform is a high fat, controlled starch formula, formulated with more energy from fat for performance and breeding horses and lactating mares. - Helps take the worry out of feeding; controlled starch diets with added fat are widely recommended to help improve performance and reduce metabolic concerns
- Makes feeding convenient; it's scientifically balanced to meet the nutritional requirements of horses in all life stages, particularly those with higher energy or caloric requirements
- It's nutrition you can rely on as every bag of SafeChoice® Perform contains calorie-rich fats from vegetable oil, guaranteed amino acid levels to support muscle development and maintenance, plus added prebiotics and probiotics to aid in nutrient digestion
- Helps your horse make the most of every feeding; SafeChoice® Perform is pelleted to reduce sorting and enhance digestibility of the nutrients critical to a horse's health and performance
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 Water Weight Barbie
Posts: 6829
       Location: Oz, Kansas | hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-30 7:49 AM I personally like safechoice perform, it's a low starch grain.......I love it. My weanling was starting to get sunk in and looked terrible on the previous grain...I put her on this along with calf manna and she is filling out nicely. Plus my finished mare looks better than she ever has, and my coming 2 year has really filled out. I feed CM, and also a rice bran would probably benefit as well
Safechoice Perform
Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein: 14.0%
Lysine: 0.80%
Methionine: 0.30%
Threonine: 0.50%
Crude Fat: 9.0%
Crude Fiber: (max. ) 15.0%
Dietary Starch: (max. ) 20.0%
Sugar: (max. ) 8.0%
Calcium: 0.90 - 1.20%
Phosphorus: 0.70%
Copper: 50 ppm
Zinc: 160 ppm
Selenium: 0.60 ppm
Vitamin A: 3,000 IU/lb
Vitamin D: 350 IU/lb
Vitamin E: 120 IU/lb
Biotin: 0.45 mg/lb
SafeChoice® Perform is a high fat, controlled starch formula, formulated with more energy from fat for performance and breeding horses and lactating mares.
- Helps take the worry out of feeding; controlled starch diets with added fat are widely recommended to help improve performance and reduce metabolic concerns
- Makes feeding convenient; it's scientifically balanced to meet the nutritional requirements of horses in all life stages, particularly those with higher energy or caloric requirements
- It's nutrition you can rely on as every bag of SafeChoice® Perform contains calorie-rich fats from vegetable oil, guaranteed amino acid levels to support muscle development and maintenance, plus added prebiotics and probiotics to aid in nutrient digestion
- Helps your horse make the most of every feeding; SafeChoice® Perform is pelleted to reduce sorting and enhance digestibility of the nutrients critical to a horse's health and performance
I feed this to my daughters hard keeper too with a flake of alfalfa a day & no other supplements. I was feeding Ultium & he did ok then switched to Omolene 400 & he quit eating. He loves the Perform & is doing great. | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 7:35 AM Hm .. You guys are making me lean towards the TC complete ! :) how high of an NSC is too high for most of you? I know. 20.6% is the TC complete .. I've had her on ultium before though & she seemed totally fine on it & it is 16% NSC & and has corn in it..
What is your goal on the NSC? I would recommend that you do your research as you are and find something and try very hard to stick with it. All the changes you keep making will make her ulcery and finicky imo. ADM is a very reputable company and I have a friend that has had good success with the Moorglo line of feeds. I have a list of several of the NSC's if you decide what your preference is. | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 8:35 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ******************************************************************** Purina list the ingredients, actual name of stuff, on the bag. I can walk out to my barn and get a bag for you. Is it my fav feed, no but I know what's in it.
Purina uses generic terms indicating a formula that is not fixed on a majority of their feeds. | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | dme0324 - 2014-01-30 8:58 AM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 8:35 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ******************************************************************** Purina list the ingredients, actual name of stuff, on the bag. I can walk out to my barn and get a bag for you. Is it my fav feed, no but I know what's in it. Purina uses generic terms indicating a formula that is not fixed on a majority of their feeds.
Yes, that is true. Pretty sure the same is true for Nutrena. | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | TurnLane - 2014-01-30 8:58 AM dme0324 - 2014-01-30 8:58 AM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 8:35 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ******************************************************************** Purina list the ingredients, actual name of stuff, on the bag. I can walk out to my barn and get a bag for you. Is it my fav feed, no but I know what's in it. Purina uses generic terms indicating a formula that is not fixed on a majority of their feeds. Yes, that is true. Pretty sure the same is true for Nutrena.
It is - at least that's what we've found so far (and that I've read). I've been a little surprised at several of the 'mill feeds' we've looked at that also use the generic terms. I'd have thought they'd have been fixed formulas.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | Comparing a horse's digestive tract to that of a human is not productive.
Horses can digest cellose... they are herbivores.... they have a large cecum... not comparable to a human | |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
     Location: N Texas | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 6:17 AM
Well I could care less about Obama , that's for sure. Clearly I've missed alot since I've been gone ! Lol anyways back on subject .. Lets just ignore the people's comments that clearly don't know much . If I didn't feed my horse fat , she'd be rail lol shes already on all the hay she can eat also .. I hear adm feeds are good .. But I'm not familiar with any of them at all. What's a good feed by them that might suit my horse ?
I feed ADM SeniorGLO to my 27 year old and PrimeGLO to the the 6 and 9 year olds. They all look great! The senior gets about 7 pounds a day and the other two get about 3 pounds a day. That's what I like about PrimeGLO, you can feed a small amount and still get all the benefits. The feeds do not contain molasses, they are large, soft pellets that are easy for the horse to pick up and chew. I love the ADM feeds. I also fed TC Senior for a while, but wanted to switch to a feed that I could feed a little less of. I think they're both excellent choices.
I know you said you don't want to add a bunch of supplements, but I also add soaked alfalfa cubes to their feed. The senior also gets beet pulp, but that's because he can't chew hay as well as he used to, so needs the extra roughage. The younger two get it so that they're eating longer, because they eat the 3 pounds of PrimeGLO pretty quick, so this way they think they're getting more :)
Rice bran oil is also a good fat supplement. The horses I've fed it to don't have a problem with it being mixed in with their feed.
All of mine also have free choice hay. | |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
     Location: N Texas | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 8:43 AM
Thanks for the articles ! I love to read them .. Has anyone actually switched from TC senior to TC complete or vice versa? Notice if your horse liked one more than the other ?
When I first started feeding TC, the senior got the senior feed and the young one got Complete. I eventually switched the young one to Senior because it was easier feeding them both the same thing. In my opinion, the Complete and Senior are very close, so switching was no big deal. The textures are extremely similar, and the ingredients are so close that I wasn't worried about a "switching over" period, I just waited till he was out of Complete and started him on Senior.
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | Gunner11 - 2014-01-30 9:04 AM Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 6:17 AM Well I could care less about Obama , that's for sure. Clearly I've missed alot since I've been gone ! Lol anyways back on subject .. Lets just ignore the people's comments that clearly don't know much . If I didn't feed my horse fat , she'd be rail lol shes already on all the hay she can eat also .. I hear adm feeds are good .. But I'm not familiar with any of them at all. What's a good feed by them that might suit my horse ? I feed ADM SeniorGLO to my 27 year old and PrimeGLO to the the 6 and 9 year olds. They all look great! The senior gets about 7 pounds a day and the other two get about 3 pounds a day. That's what I like about PrimeGLO, you can feed a small amount and still get all the benefits. The feeds do not contain molasses, they are large, soft pellets that are easy for the horse to pick up and chew. I love the ADM feeds. I also fed TC Senior for a while, but wanted to switch to a feed that I could feed a little less of. I think they're both excellent choices. I know you said you don't want to add a bunch of supplements, but I also add soaked alfalfa cubes to their feed. The senior also gets beet pulp, but that's because he can't chew hay as well as he used to, so needs the extra roughage. The younger two get it so that they're eating longer, because they eat the 3 pounds of PrimeGLO pretty quick, so this way they think they're getting more : ) Rice bran oil is also a good fat supplement. The horses I've fed it to don't have a problem with it being mixed in with their feed. All of mine also have free choice hay.
Ok, I'm not being a witch - I promise:
but the ADM Senior Glo does have cane molasses in it. I don't know about the Prime Glo. Maybe I should say, our labels show molasses....
I didn't think it had molasses either but checking ingredients for the munchkins project, I found out otherwise | |
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 Midget Lover
          Location: Kentucky | Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 9:47 AM yes but you have to do it slow and keep them on it 30 days..to much flipping around d the horse will develop gut issues..have you tried just beetpulp and alfalfa pellets and add her supplements to it
I have an 18 year old and a 10 year old on TC Senior. I've added alfalfa pellets for about 3-4 months now and they look fantastic. They google up everything. | |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
     Location: N Texas | dme0324 - 2014-01-30 9:16 AM
Gunner11 - 2014-01-30 9:04 AM Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 6:17 AM Well I could care less about Obama , that's for sure. Clearly I've missed alot since I've been gone ! Lol anyways back on subject .. Lets just ignore the people's comments that clearly don't know much . If I didn't feed my horse fat , she'd be rail lol shes already on all the hay she can eat also .. I hear adm feeds are good .. But I'm not familiar with any of them at all. What's a good feed by them that might suit my horse ? I feed ADM SeniorGLO to my 27 year old and PrimeGLO to the the 6 and 9 year olds. They all look great! The senior gets about 7 pounds a day and the other two get about 3 pounds a day. That's what I like about PrimeGLO, you can feed a small amount and still get all the benefits. The feeds do not contain molasses, they are large, soft pellets that are easy for the horse to pick up and chew. I love the ADM feeds. I also fed TC Senior for a while, but wanted to switch to a feed that I could feed a little less of. I think they're both excellent choices. I know you said you don't want to add a bunch of supplements, but I also add soaked alfalfa cubes to their feed. The senior also gets beet pulp, but that's because he can't chew hay as well as he used to, so needs the extra roughage. The younger two get it so that they're eating longer, because they eat the 3 pounds of PrimeGLO pretty quick, so this way they think they're getting more : ) Rice bran oil is also a good fat supplement. The horses I've fed it to don't have a problem with it being mixed in with their feed. All of mine also have free choice hay.
Ok, I'm not being a witch - I promise:
but the ADM Senior Glo does have cane molasses in it. I don't know about the Prime Glo. Maybe I should say, our labels show molasses....
I didn't think it had molasses either but checking ingredients for the munchkins project, I found out otherwise
Ok, I stand corrected :) I haven't looked at the ingredient list in so long. Let me rephrase...it's not coated in molasses to give it a sticky texture  | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| I dont really have a goal with the NSC , other than she's a hotter horse .. But I doubt it makes a difference bc the previous owner had her in tribute kalm ultra & it has a NSC of 25% & she was no different on that ! She's just naturally a hot horse .. I don't think it matters what feed she's on if any at all. If I stay quiet with her she stays quieter . I just think its the way she's been handled in her past.. But i can get around it. Does the safe choice perform look like the safe choice original ? If so, that looks dry & unappetizing to me lol I will most likely try the TC complete.. But I won't switch her around alot.. I will search long & hard for the best option before I switch her. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 10:53 AM
I dont really have a goal with the NSC , other than she's a hotter horse .. But I doubt it makes a difference bc the previous owner had her in tribute kalm ultra & it has a NSC of 25% & she was no different on that ! She's just naturally a hot horse .. I don't think it matters what feed she's on if any at all. If I stay quiet with her she stays quieter . I just think its the way she's been handled in her past.. But i can get around it. Does the safe choice perform look like the safe choice original ? If so, that looks dry & unappetizing to me lol I will most likely try the TC complete.. But I won't switch her around alot.. I will search long & hard for the best option before I switch her.
My friend feeds the Safechoice senior.... it is not chalky like the original Safechoice.... it is more like a senior feed.
Not sure about the Perform | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| Ok :) I was wondering if it was all chalky like or not lol. All the nutrena feeds have high NSC % so I'm better off sticking with TC . I wanted to try the TC TLC for her bc it's similar to their senior but pelleted.. But of course my feed store doesn't carry it :( I think it would have been perfect for her too.. | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 11:22 AM Ok :) I was wondering if it was all chalky like or not lol. All the nutrena feeds have high NSC % so I'm better off sticking with TC . I wanted to try the TC TLC for her bc it's similar to their senior but pelleted.. But of course my feed store doesn't carry it :( I think it would have been perfect for her too..
Isn't that the most frustrating thing in the world -- to find what you want to use via research but can't find the product. I'm still half ill over not being able to get the ADM products that we loved.
It just stinks | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| Yes, it is SO aggravating ! Bc I know that's the perfect feed for her lol. Does anyone have any experience with Buckeyes Cadence Ultra feed? | |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
     Location: N Texas | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 11:22 AM
Ok :) I was wondering if it was all chalky like or not lol. All the nutrena feeds have high NSC % so I'm better off sticking with TC . I wanted to try the TC TLC for her bc it's similar to their senior but pelleted.. But of course my feed store doesn't carry it :( I think it would have been perfect for her too..
Can they order it for you? If they already carry TC, they should be able to get it for you. The feed store I get ADM from doesn't carry every single product, but can get whatever I need if they don't already have it. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| I am going to see if they can order it for me when I go in there :) I hope they can!! | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | Buckeye is a GREAT feed company too. If you can try them, they're worth it.
But you need to be careful switching feeds around so often. It's not good for them. Their bodies get used to one thing then it's switched to another.
I love TC Senior and never had an issue with any horse wanting to eat it.
20-23% is the normal range for the 'traditional' pelleted feeds, so it's not crazy. It when you start getting into sweet feeds (oats and corn) that the NSC shoots up. Corn can add up to 10-20% more just on it's own.
I found a local mill that makes a Senior feed a lot like TC. It does have oats and barley added so it's a little high NSC (21%) but that won't hurt my lazy horses. They need a little starch. As long as you're riding regularly &/or she's turned out a lot, she should be fine. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| I know switching feeds too often is not good . I don't switch every week .. I am mailing sure that if I do decide to switch it will be for long term. The only thing with buckeyes feeds i didnt like was the low fiber content in the cadence feeds. I guess cadence ultra isnt too bad @ 14%... I might price it out but if its more than TC I will stick with the TC . I could try soaking the TC senior too.. See if that doesn't make her like it more. She just ate the ultium so readily , never stopped until it was gone. On the senior, she doesn't readily eat it. She could care less if she got it or not . She eats it when it's in there for a while, but if you want her to eat it right away , won't happen. I know she just doesn't like something about it. She takes a bite & shakes her head up @ down like she doesn't like it but eats it anyways . My other horses love the stuff .. I wish she did too , but she just doesn't . I could try wetting it or adding something to it to make her like it more, but idk what I could add . | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| I also feed beet pulp . Not much though . Just a quarter scoop morning & night. Another reason I know she doesn't like the TC senior is , when I feed her the beet pulp plain , she loves it. If I mix it with a little bit of a different feed, she loves it.. But when I mix it with TC senior she immediately knows it & doesn't readily eat it .. So idk why she can't like the TC senior :( bc it sure is a good feed , & makes my life simple by feeding them all the same thing . But she has to be difficult lol maybe I should just go back go ultium ... Even though its 50 cents more a bag than TC & not even a fixed formula .. So I wanted to avoid that idea lol | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 12:03 PM
I know switching feeds too often is not good . I don't switch every week .. I am mailing sure that if I do decide to switch it will be for long term. The only thing with buckeyes feeds i didnt like was the low fiber content in the cadence feeds. I guess cadence ultra isnt too bad @ 14%... I might price it out but if its more than TC I will stick with the TC . I could try soaking the TC senior too.. See if that doesn't make her like it more. She just ate the ultium so readily , never stopped until it was gone. On the senior, she doesn't readily eat it. She could care less if she got it or not . She eats it when it's in there for a while, but if you want her to eat it right away , won't happen. I know she just doesn't like something about it. She takes a bite & shakes her head up @ down like she doesn't like it but eats it anyways . My other horses love the stuff .. I wish she did too , but she just doesn't . I could try wetting it or adding something to it to make her like it more, but idk what I could add .
applesauce | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | Try soaking it.
You may have said this already, but have you treated for ulcers?
We had a mare that would act like she had colic when she ate dry feed. Was cinchy. Hateful. But was fine when it was soaked. Put her on some ulcer stuff & she was fine. It was the weirdest symptom ever. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| Yes, treating for ulcers right now. She's been on the meds two weeks & no change at all. I am going to try soaking it but I doubt it helps, but would be nice if it did ! | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | lookout hill - 2014-01-30 8:57 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-30 7:49 AM I personally like safechoice perform, it's a low starch grain.......I love it. My weanling was starting to get sunk in and looked terrible on the previous grain...I put her on this along with calf manna and she is filling out nicely. Plus my finished mare looks better than she ever has, and my coming 2 year has really filled out. I feed CM, and also a rice bran would probably benefit as well
Safechoice Perform
Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein: 14.0%
Lysine: 0.80%
Methionine: 0.30%
Threonine: 0.50%
Crude Fat: 9.0%
Crude Fiber: (max. ) 15.0%
Dietary Starch: (max. ) 20.0%
Sugar: (max. ) 8.0%
Calcium: 0.90 - 1.20%
Phosphorus: 0.70%
Copper: 50 ppm
Zinc: 160 ppm
Selenium: 0.60 ppm
Vitamin A: 3,000 IU/lb
Vitamin D: 350 IU/lb
Vitamin E: 120 IU/lb
Biotin: 0.45 mg/lb
SafeChoice® Perform is a high fat, controlled starch formula, formulated with more energy from fat for performance and breeding horses and lactating mares.
- Helps take the worry out of feeding; controlled starch diets with added fat are widely recommended to help improve performance and reduce metabolic concerns
- Makes feeding convenient; it's scientifically balanced to meet the nutritional requirements of horses in all life stages, particularly those with higher energy or caloric requirements
- It's nutrition you can rely on as every bag of SafeChoice® Perform contains calorie-rich fats from vegetable oil, guaranteed amino acid levels to support muscle development and maintenance, plus added prebiotics and probiotics to aid in nutrient digestion
- Helps your horse make the most of every feeding; SafeChoice® Perform is pelleted to reduce sorting and enhance digestibility of the nutrients critical to a horse's health and performance
I feed this to my daughters hard keeper too with a flake of alfalfa a day & no other supplements. I was feeding Ultium & he did ok then switched to Omolene 400 & he quit eating. He loves the Perform & is doing great.
I feed the SafeChoice Sr to my 17 yr old gelding that requires a low starch feed. So far he looks real good. I'm anxious to start riding and see how he moves and feels IF it ever warms up and that's a big IF. I give him a little Calf manna with it. Once I start legging him up in the spring he'll get PP CJ. | |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
    Location: Dubach, LA | For what it's worth, I talked to my vet about high fat feeds. He is an older man, race track vet, lameness specialist. He said that the high fat feeds were developed for endurance horses. He said that anything above 3% is just making expensive poop. I think he said that fat is the third source of energy for horses. They use carbs first and protein second. He said they metabolize fat differently from us. It takes more energy for them to use fat, if that makes sense to you. He said the perfect diet for any horse is oats and alfalfa and a little cracked corn. Substitute soybean meal for alfalfa if you have to but feed lots of good grass hay. I've switched all but my two colic prone SafeChoice horses to oats and soybean meal. I'll report how they do. | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 11:22 AM Ok :) I was wondering if it was all chalky like or not lol. All the nutrena feeds have high NSC % so I'm better off sticking with TC . I wanted to try the TC TLC for her bc it's similar to their senior but pelleted.. But of course my feed store doesn't carry it :( I think it would have been perfect for her too..
The Nutrena Safechoice feeds don't have high starch. Look at Sr and Special Care. | |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
    Location: Dubach, LA | Am I in agreement with BARRELHORSE USA? The stars must be in some type of alignment. Everybody grab their tin foil hats to protect their brains. | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | dme0324 - 2014-01-30 8:58 AM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 8:35 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ******************************************************************** Purina list the ingredients, actual name of stuff, on the bag. I can walk out to my barn and get a bag for you. Is it my fav feed, no but I know what's in it. Purina uses generic terms indicating a formula that is not fixed on a majority of their feeds.
I feed strategy healthy edge. And if u read the white tag on the bottom of the bag it says: wheat mids, alfalfa meal, ad soybean hulls are the first 3 ingredients and follows with the rest. Those aren't generic terms | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| I don't think anyone is totally wrong .. Everyone has different opinions & they know what works & doesn't work for their horses. I appreciate all these opinions though :) I try to keep an open mind lol sometimes it's hard .. | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | CanCan - 2014-01-30 1:54 PM For what it's worth, I talked to my vet about high fat feeds. He is an older man, race track vet, lameness specialist. He said that the high fat feeds were developed for endurance horses. He said that anything above 3% is just making expensive poop. I think he said that fat is the third source of energy for horses. They use carbs first and protein second. He said they metabolize fat differently from us. It takes more energy for them to use fat, if that makes sense to you. He said the perfect diet for any horse is oats and alfalfa and a little cracked corn. Substitute soybean meal for alfalfa if you have to but feed lots of good grass hay. I've switched all but my two colic prone SafeChoice horses to oats and soybean meal. I'll report how they do.
Him saying cracked corn is good for a horse makes me think that he hasn't read any new research in about 20 years on equine nutrition. There are just too many studies saying corn is BAD for any horse, especially any with joint issues. I won't ever feed it, regardless of how "natural" it is.
And oats in high amounts are also detrimental. Way too many carbs for most horses.
High fat is good for HARD KEEPERS and horses in highly demanding competitions. I feed my guys high fat because it keep their weight on in a very small amount. I can feed 6lbs a day and they stay nice and fat on it. Other people have to feed up to 10+lbs a day just to maintain their horse's condition.
To each their own. But high fat feeds have their place. | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | hlynn - 2014-01-30 1:11 PM CanCan - 2014-01-30 1:54 PM For what it's worth, I talked to my vet about high fat feeds. He is an older man, race track vet, lameness specialist. He said that the high fat feeds were developed for endurance horses. He said that anything above 3% is just making expensive poop. I think he said that fat is the third source of energy for horses. They use carbs first and protein second. He said they metabolize fat differently from us. It takes more energy for them to use fat, if that makes sense to you. He said the perfect diet for any horse is oats and alfalfa and a little cracked corn. Substitute soybean meal for alfalfa if you have to but feed lots of good grass hay. I've switched all but my two colic prone SafeChoice horses to oats and soybean meal. I'll report how they do. Him saying cracked corn is good for a horse makes me think that he hasn't read any new research in about 20 years on equine nutrition. There are just too many studies saying corn is BAD for any horse, especially any with joint issues. I won't ever feed it, regardless of how "natural" it is.
And oats in high amounts are also detrimental. Way too many carbs for most horses.
High fat is good for HARD KEEPERS and horses in highly demanding competitions. I feed my guys high fat because it keep their weight on in a very small amount. I can feed 6lbs a day and they stay nice and fat on it. Other people have to feed up to 10+lbs a day just to maintain their horse's condition.
To each their own. But high fat feeds have their place.
There are hundreds and hundred of current champions of all breeds and events that currently eat corn. Even Amy Laymon who hates anything processed - feeds corn last I knew. | |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
    Location: Dubach, LA | hlynn - 2014-01-30 1:11 PM [ Him saying cracked corn is good for a horse makes me think that he hasn't read any new research in about 20 years on equine nutrition.
You saying that makes me think you have never done a research project. Studies say what you want them to say. Lots of people HAVE to publish something yearly to keep a job.
He actually has a contract to teach vets who deploy. He may be old, but he's not dumb. Very up to date. Just sharing what he said. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 209
 
| Buckeye is a great feed! I really like to use Purina Amplify if the horse needs to gain weight. Had a broodmare that dropped a bunch of weight once she foaled and our vet recommended putting her on Amplify and it brought all the weight back on and she looked great. She wasn't a picky eater but I have not found a horse that doesn't like it! Best of luck! | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 292
     Location: Northeast Nebraska | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:49 PM
When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol
Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle??
Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ...
Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ...
http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation...
Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol ..
http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do...
You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ...
I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals ..
I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words ....
*******************************************************************
I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed ....
Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ...
I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol
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Purina Enrich Plus
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | TurnLane - 2014-01-30 4:18 PM
hlynn - 2014-01-30 1:11 PM CanCan - 2014-01-30 1:54 PM For what it's worth, I talked to my vet about high fat feeds. He is an older man, race track vet, lameness specialist. He said that the high fat feeds were developed for endurance horses. He said that anything above 3% is just making expensive poop. I think he said that fat is the third source of energy for horses. They use carbs first and protein second. He said they metabolize fat differently from us. It takes more energy for them to use fat, if that makes sense to you. He said the perfect diet for any horse is oats and alfalfa and a little cracked corn. Substitute soybean meal for alfalfa if you have to but feed lots of good grass hay. I've switched all but my two colic prone SafeChoice horses to oats and soybean meal. I'll report how they do. Him saying cracked corn is good for a horse makes me think that he hasn't read any new research in about 20 years on equine nutrition. There are just too many studies saying corn is BAD for any horse, especially any with joint issues. I won't ever feed it, regardless of how "natural" it is.
And oats in high amounts are also detrimental. Way too many carbs for most horses.
High fat is good for HARD KEEPERS and horses in highly demanding competitions. I feed my guys high fat because it keep their weight on in a very small amount. I can feed 6lbs a day and they stay nice and fat on it. Other people have to feed up to 10+lbs a day just to maintain their horse's condition.
To each their own. But high fat feeds have their place.
There are hundreds and hundred of current champions of all breeds and events that currently eat corn. Even Amy Laymon who hates anything processed - feeds corn last I knew.
That doesn't make it healthy. Corn is not meant for horses. They don't digest it. Why feed something the horse just poops out? Look at manure of horses on sweet feed. You can see the corn right there.
Corn has a HUGE difference between omega 3s and omega 6s. Omega 6s will cause inflammation in high amounts. And corn has a ridiculous high amount of them. And corn is sugar. Look at the starch content of feeds without corn compared to feeds with corn. You'll see up to a 20% difference. That's huge.
Corn is not a healthy choice for any horse. Sure, they can survive on it. A human could survive on candy. But they wouldn't be very healthy would they? | |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
       Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | I feed corn, oats & barley. Always have. I throw 2 oz of supplement on top and we're good to go. Most of my horses only get 1# a day, broodmares and growing babies (after weaning) get 2-3# a day. My horses look great. Feel great and I haven't had any problems with epiphisitis or any other growth related issue. I also feed free choice grass hay/pasture with 3-5# of green leafy properly cured alfalfa.
With all the labels I've been reading today, I wonder why you guys feed "bagged crap" at all. Why don't you just feed a good quality hay and a mineral supplement and be done with it?
If you have a special needs horse, then yes, you have to do something different. I feel bad for you.
If you are feeding per bag directions you are feeding at least 10# or more of highly suspect "forage" to your animals just because it comes in a pretty bag and the feed companies have you brainwashed to think they need it. You're paying $64651654651/ton of feed when you could get better nutrition for a better value from feeding good quality hay. I'm not convinced that fat is good for horses. AT ALL. I don't feed it.
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 1:05 PM dme0324 - 2014-01-30 8:58 AM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 8:35 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ******************************************************************** Purina list the ingredients, actual name of stuff, on the bag. I can walk out to my barn and get a bag for you. Is it my fav feed, no but I know what's in it. Purina uses generic terms indicating a formula that is not fixed on a majority of their feeds. I feed strategy healthy edge. And if u read the white tag on the bottom of the bag it says: wheat mids, alfalfa meal, ad soybean hulls are the first 3 ingredients and follows with the rest. Those aren't generic terms
I saw your other thread -- and commented but in case you didn't see it -- I did not mean it insulting AND I learned something new: apparently, it's a product by product thing at least with Purena & probably a few other companies. Strategy is not ingredient specific.
So sharing -- provides everyone with great information and we can all learn. Thank you, for posting & I truly hope you're not as angry as it seemed. I'm definitely not :) | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| So nobody has ever fed TC complete to TC senior or vice versa ? | |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
       Location: Bandera, TX | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 12:48 PM Yes, treating for ulcers right now. She's been on the meds two weeks & no change at all. I am going to try soaking it but I doubt it helps, but would be nice if it did !
HGA and colonic ulcers takes longer to treat than foregut ulcers stay the course and try just beet pulp and alfalfa pellets and rice bran product of your choice and flax. Do that while your doing your research... Go to this site to help you in your ration. Had a nice nutritionist give me this: Horsemath.com | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-31 9:42 AM So nobody has ever fed TC complete to TC senior or vice versa ? I think you should just go with the complete and see how she likes it. stick to one feed.. complete is 12-10 Sr is 14-10
or as suggested before .. alfalfa pellets and beet pulp..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-01-31 1:24 PM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| Ok. I am going to go with the complete . I already know she likes that better bc I has some in my barn so I mixed a little in her bee pulp & she loved it .. But didn't want the senior, she wanted more of the complete. So I'm going go feed that I think :) it's higher fat & calories anyways so I think it's suit her good :) @ if she likes it more then it's a win win situation lol | |
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