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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | Here's your sign....I was reading on the thread about high fat and saw this several times. That Purina won't list their ingredients and uses generic terms because its not a fixed formula. Well here is a pic of a tag off my feed bag and it does not list generic terms. It has wheat mids, alfalfa meal, soybean hulls, and so on....JUST like TC senior list theirs. so how is this different from TC? I feed Strategy Healthy Edge and Ultimum Growth. Is it my favorite feed? I'm not sure. I fed TC Senior for a month and saw absolutely no difference. We feed high quality alfalfa hay too. I have asked 2 different vets, one of them use to work in Weatherford with Dr. Ray, and both have said they like and feed Purina products, they feel Purina does the research. Now I don't care if you like the feed or not, but I just wanted to point out Purina does list their ingredients. I am pretty sure when I asked at the feed store that all feeds have to list their ingredients that is not a custom mix. Sorry for the vent, carry on....I hope the pics attach
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
           Location: Kansas | | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them.. | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:15 PM I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them..
you are absolutely right, its not online, and that confuses me totally. I think they should put it there. Yes they may change it up, no arguements there, I guess each tag on the bag would read different then? I haven't read the tag everytime, I just know its there because I asked the feed store and they showed it to me. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 5:20 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:15 PM I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them.. you are absolutely right, its not online, and that confuses me totally. I think they should put it there. Yes they may change it up, no arguements there, I guess each tag on the bag would read different then? I haven't read the tag everytime, I just know its there because I asked the feed store and they showed it to me.
they should.. and yes tags would read same until they hit the end of line and had new ones out.. I have heard its not exactly fixed formula so it doesnt necessarily mean changing tag ingredients.. as well..we hear people discussing it.. but whos to say they are correct if you think about it.lol.
triple crown is my feed of choice and adm.. but .. whos to say.. purina isnt great to.. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 4:20 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:15 PM I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them.. you are absolutely right, its not online, and that confuses me totally. I think they should put it there. Yes they may change it up, no arguements there, I guess each tag on the bag would read different then? I haven't read the tag everytime, I just know its there because I asked the feed store and they showed it to me.
I had feed tags from Purina and Nutrena that listed their ingredients as grain by products and were definitely not a fixed formula but I finally threw them out.
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | ~~* An ingredient list--which might list every ingredient in the feed, but more often is deliberately vague. There are two reasons for this: First, some feed formulas are designed to be variable, so that one ingredient (providing similar nutrition) can be substituted for another as grain market prices fluctuate. With a variable formula feed, the manufacturer would go to considerable expense reprinting feed labels every time the formula changed slightly. Also, many manufacturers prefer not to divulge the exact formula for their grain rations, for fear of being copied by the competitors. So, instead of specific ingredients like soybean meal or cottonseed meal, you might see phrases like "plant protein products" listed on the feed label; instead of brewer's yeast, wheat bran, or corn gluten feed, you might see a listing for "processed grain by-products." This approach is sanctioned by the AAFCO, and it helps manufacturers keep costs down--but it can make it difficult for consumers to evaluate what they're buying. Puzacke notes that some states, such as Florida, require a complete ingredient list rather than the "shortcut approach." | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 5:26 PM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 4:20 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:15 PM I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them.. you are absolutely right, its not online, and that confuses me totally. I think they should put it there. Yes they may change it up, no arguements there, I guess each tag on the bag would read different then? I haven't read the tag everytime, I just know its there because I asked the feed store and they showed it to me. I had feed tags from Purina and Nutrena that listed their ingredients as grain by products and were definitely not a fixed formula but I finally threw them out.
I know they had them listed that way... one reason i wouldnt feed it either.. | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:25 PM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 5:20 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:15 PM I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them.. you are absolutely right, its not online, and that confuses me totally. I think they should put it there. Yes they may change it up, no arguements there, I guess each tag on the bag would read different then? I haven't read the tag everytime, I just know its there because I asked the feed store and they showed it to me. they should.. and yes tags would read same until they hit the end of line and had new ones out.. I have heard its not exactly fixed formula so it doesnt necessarily mean changing tag ingredients.. as well..we hear people discussing it.. but whos to say they are correct if you think about it.lol.
triple crown is my feed of choice and adm.. but .. whos to say.. purina isnt great to..
Im not sure its my favorite feed, but its that or Nutrena or drive an hour 1 way to get TC or ADM. I tried both, didnt see a difference with the TC and mine didn't like ADM. I really wish I could find something I liked! I'll keep an eye on my tags and see what changes. Maybe they are trying to do better? lol | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 5:30 PM
~~* An ingredient list--which might list every ingredient in the feed, but more often is deliberately vague. There are two reasons for this: First, some feed formulas are designed to be variable, so that one ingredient (providing similar nutrition) can be substituted for another as grain market prices fluctuate. With a variable formula feed, the manufacturer would go to considerable expense reprinting feed labels every time the formula changed slightly. Also, many manufacturers prefer not to divulge the exact formula for their grain rations, for fear of being copied by the competitors. So, instead of specific ingredients like soybean meal or cottonseed meal, you might see phrases like "plant protein products" listed on the feed label; instead of brewer's yeast, wheat bran, or corn gluten feed, you might see a listing for "processed grain by-products." This approach is sanctioned by the AAFCO, and it helps manufacturers keep costs down--but it can make it difficult for consumers to evaluate what they're buying. Puzacke notes that some states, such as Florida, require a complete ingredient list rather than the "shortcut approach."
boy thats eye opening isnt it. i knew by products could mean changing up and not listing but kinda gives them leeway to add whatever ... ill continue to not feed it anyway.. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | http://barrelhorsenews.com/articles/horse-health/1311-breaking-the-... | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 4:32 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:25 PM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 5:20 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:15 PM I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them.. you are absolutely right, its not online, and that confuses me totally. I think they should put it there. Yes they may change it up, no arguements there, I guess each tag on the bag would read different then? I haven't read the tag everytime, I just know its there because I asked the feed store and they showed it to me. they should.. and yes tags would read same until they hit the end of line and had new ones out.. I have heard its not exactly fixed formula so it doesnt necessarily mean changing tag ingredients.. as well..we hear people discussing it.. but whos to say they are correct if you think about it.lol.
triple crown is my feed of choice and adm.. but .. whos to say.. purina isnt great to.. Im not sure its my favorite feed, but its that or Nutrena or drive an hour 1 way to get TC or ADM. I tried both, didnt see a difference with the TC and mine didn't like ADM. I really wish I could find something I liked! I'll keep an eye on my tags and see what changes. Maybe they are trying to do better? lol
I'm in the same boat as you. Nutrena and Purina are my only 2 options. Its 120 miles to Woody's and ADM. I did try one of the ADM products for my gelding that needs low starch and he got the runs something terrible so I had to quit. I would love to put a couple of my mares on Woody's during the season but when you're that far away its really hard to plan. I could stockpile a bunch of feed but in the heat and humidity of summer I don't think it would last. The joys of living in no mans land. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 4:32 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:25 PM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 5:20 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:15 PM I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them.. you are absolutely right, its not online, and that confuses me totally. I think they should put it there. Yes they may change it up, no arguements there, I guess each tag on the bag would read different then? I haven't read the tag everytime, I just know its there because I asked the feed store and they showed it to me. they should.. and yes tags would read same until they hit the end of line and had new ones out.. I have heard its not exactly fixed formula so it doesnt necessarily mean changing tag ingredients.. as well..we hear people discussing it.. but whos to say they are correct if you think about it.lol.
triple crown is my feed of choice and adm.. but .. whos to say.. purina isnt great to.. Im not sure its my favorite feed, but its that or Nutrena or drive an hour 1 way to get TC or ADM. I tried both, didnt see a difference with the TC and mine didn't like ADM. I really wish I could find something I liked! I'll keep an eye on my tags and see what changes. Maybe they are trying to do better? lol
The only thing Purina has tried hard to do is to put the cheapest ingredients into their feed to get the biggest profit. I feel they spend more on their fancy bags then what they do with what is in that fancy bag. It's been like this for as long as I can remember and as old as I am...That has been a very long time. They have been bought and sold so many times that the original Purina is now just a memory of what it use to be. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | CYA Ranch - 2014-01-30 4:36 PM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 4:32 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:25 PM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 5:20 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:15 PM I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them.. you are absolutely right, its not online, and that confuses me totally. I think they should put it there. Yes they may change it up, no arguements there, I guess each tag on the bag would read different then? I haven't read the tag everytime, I just know its there because I asked the feed store and they showed it to me. they should.. and yes tags would read same until they hit the end of line and had new ones out.. I have heard its not exactly fixed formula so it doesnt necessarily mean changing tag ingredients.. as well..we hear people discussing it.. but whos to say they are correct if you think about it.lol.
triple crown is my feed of choice and adm.. but .. whos to say.. purina isnt great to.. Im not sure its my favorite feed, but its that or Nutrena or drive an hour 1 way to get TC or ADM. I tried both, didnt see a difference with the TC and mine didn't like ADM. I really wish I could find something I liked! I'll keep an eye on my tags and see what changes. Maybe they are trying to do better? lol I'm in the same boat as you. Nutrena and Purina are my only 2 options. Its 120 miles to Woody's and ADM. I did try one of the ADM products for my gelding that needs low starch and he got the runs something terrible so I had to quit. I would love to put a couple of my mares on Woody's during the season but when you're that far away its really hard to plan. I could stockpile a bunch of feed but in the heat and humidity of summer I don't think it would last. The joys of living in no mans land.
I understand that completely and is why I was forced from feeding natural grains to a processed feed. If I had to feed Purina..it would be their Equine Senior. It's not the original formula but they haven't screwed up to much. | |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
        Location: Alberta | So is it required feed companies list ingredients on their products.....monitored by any Federal or State regulators? | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | It is typical practice for large companies to send bags to regions to produce their formula to basically contract others to make their feed, thus the sewn on tag. And while ADM is a very reputable maker- they do some fixed cost formulas as well. So while the label may meet specs on protein and fiber- the grain qty may change- ie- 500# corn vs 200# corn per ton ect. If your horse is sensitive to corn- then you may see a change and not know why. | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags.
Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition.
If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | dream_chaser - 2014-01-30 4:45 PM
So is it required feed companies list ingredients on their products.....monitored by any Federal or State regulators?
I don't know. I'll ask the next time I'm at the feed store | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | And the cheaper formulas are still 'plant protein byproduct' type feed labels. Just check that Omolene some of you love so much. Sweet feed is pure junk. You could find soybeans, cottonseed, alfalfa, or wheat meal in any given bag. A little too open for my taste. | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | CYA Ranch - 2014-01-30 4:36 PM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 4:32 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:25 PM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 5:20 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:15 PM I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them.. you are absolutely right, its not online, and that confuses me totally. I think they should put it there. Yes they may change it up, no arguements there, I guess each tag on the bag would read different then? I haven't read the tag everytime, I just know its there because I asked the feed store and they showed it to me. they should.. and yes tags would read same until they hit the end of line and had new ones out.. I have heard its not exactly fixed formula so it doesnt necessarily mean changing tag ingredients.. as well..we hear people discussing it.. but whos to say they are correct if you think about it.lol.
triple crown is my feed of choice and adm.. but .. whos to say.. purina isnt great to.. Im not sure its my favorite feed, but its that or Nutrena or drive an hour 1 way to get TC or ADM. I tried both, didnt see a difference with the TC and mine didn't like ADM. I really wish I could find something I liked! I'll keep an eye on my tags and see what changes. Maybe they are trying to do better? lol I'm in the same boat as you. Nutrena and Purina are my only 2 options. Its 120 miles to Woody's and ADM. I did try one of the ADM products for my gelding that needs low starch and he got the runs something terrible so I had to quit. I would love to put a couple of my mares on Woody's during the season but when you're that far away its really hard to plan. I could stockpile a bunch of feed but in the heat and humidity of summer I don't think it would last. The joys of living in no mans land.
I know Woodys will deliver if you buy a whole pallet. But it would take me a while to go through one. Too bad we don't live close enough to share!! And I need some form of pelleted feed. Have 2 oldies that need soaked feed | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
      
| livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 4:20 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 4:15 PM I think they meant online.
and also its not fixed .. they change it up quite alot.. was my issue with them.. you are absolutely right, its not online, and that confuses me totally. I think they should put it there. Yes they may change it up, no arguements there, I guess each tag on the bag would read different then? I haven't read the tag everytime, I just know its there because I asked the feed store and they showed it to me.
I was told that feed companies that do not have a fixed formula have a 6 month window to change ingredient tags. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find.
I just fed my last bag of Triple Crown as getting Nutrena to mix their feed was a kiss of death. My very consistent Triple Crown Senior became the most inconstent crap. Pretty bad when my husband, who barely ever feeds, ask me when I changed my feed.. | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | hlynn - 2014-01-30 5:52 PM And the cheaper formulas are still 'plant protein byproduct' type feed labels. Just check that Omolene some of you love so much. Sweet feed is pure junk. You could find soybeans, cottonseed, alfalfa, or wheat meal in any given bag. A little too open for my taste.
that can go with any of the low end of totem pole feeds.. not just purina... and I disagree with its the lowest on pole there are several others I will not feed either..
I think if others cant get some feeds and it works for them so be it.. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1969
        Location: Texas | I went to a research study put on by Purina yesterday. It was interesting, they probably didn't like me much since I am a Purina hater..... But the $200 for an hour of my opinions wasn't bad.... They did tell me the "dog food " side of Purina vs the "horse side" are owned by and are two different companies... Who knows. | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 5:56 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. I just fed my last bag of Triple Crown as getting Nutrena to mix their feed was a kiss of death. My very consistent Triple Crown Senior became the most inconstent crap. Pretty bad when my husband, who barely ever feeds, ask me when I changed my feed..
agree with that.. | |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
       Location: relocated to Texas | Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL
I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are? | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 5:56 PM
hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find.
I just fed my last bag of Triple Crown as getting Nutrena to mix their feed was a kiss of death. My very consistent Triple Crown Senior became the most inconstent crap. Pretty bad when my husband, who barely ever feeds, ask me when I changed my feed..
Southern States produces it here in the south. So I'll keep it. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 702
  
| hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM
Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags.
Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition.
If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find.
FYI Triple Crown is owned by Nutrena, some of their mills still produce it, however I know in TX the Nutrena Giddings plant produces TC | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 5:56 PM
hlynn - 2014-01-30 5:52 PM And the cheaper formulas are still 'plant protein byproduct' type feed labels. Just check that Omolene some of you love so much. Sweet feed is pure junk. You could find soybeans, cottonseed, alfalfa, or wheat meal in any given bag. A little too open for my taste.
that can go with any of the low end of totem pole feeds.. not just purina... and I disagree with its the lowest on pole there are several others I will not feed either..
I think if others cant get some feeds and it works for them so be it..
I know. That's what I meant. The cheap end of ANY feed company has junk ingredients. | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | txaggiegal - 2014-01-30 6:00 PM
hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM
Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags.
Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition.
If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find.
FYI Triple Crown is owned by Nutrena, some of their mills still produce it, however I know in TX the Nutrena Giddings plant produces TC
They're not owned by Nutrena. They contracted Nutrena to mill their feed out west. That's it. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
    
| hlynn - 2014-01-30 5:00 PM
Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 5:56 PM
hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find.
I just fed my last bag of Triple Crown as getting Nutrena to mix their feed was a kiss of death. My very consistent Triple Crown Senior became the most inconstent crap. Pretty bad when my husband, who barely ever feeds, ask me when I changed my feed..
Southern States produces it here in the south. So I'll keep it.
I am in Montana and our dealer had to send a bunch of Triple Crown back because there was oil pooling up under the stack of bags. They have been having a bunch of issues with it. I started feeding it in 1997 was so sad to see Nutrena take it over. I don't care for purina you just don't know what is in most of it, floor sweepings for all I know. We are bringing in some Tribute feed to try now. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 766
     Location: Texas | Boy is this ever an eye opener. I thought I was doing good feeding WellSolve Low Starch Low Sugar. Now what????
Those of you on here that hate Purina, What do you feed? | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | HaleyT - 2014-01-30 4:58 PM I went to a research study put on by Purina yesterday. It was interesting, they probably didn't like me much since I am a Purina hater..... But the $200 for an hour of my opinions wasn't bad.... They did tell me the "dog food " side of Purina vs the "horse side" are owned by and are two different companies... Who knows.
Nestle Company owns the Purina Mills pet food part and Land of Lakes owns the Purina Mills animal feed division. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | cutnrunqhmt - 2014-01-30 5:04 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 5:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 5:56 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. I just fed my last bag of Triple Crown as getting Nutrena to mix their feed was a kiss of death. My very consistent Triple Crown Senior became the most inconstent crap. Pretty bad when my husband, who barely ever feeds, ask me when I changed my feed.. Southern States produces it here in the south. So I'll keep it. I am in Montana and our dealer had to send a bunch of Triple Crown back because there was oil pooling up under the stack of bags. They have been having a bunch of issues with it. I started feeding it in 1997 was so sad to see Nutrena take it over. I don't care for purina you just don't know what is in most of it, floor sweepings for all I know. We are bringing in some Tribute feed to try now.
I agree...Very sad. I loved the Triple Crown Senior. Every single bag use to be the same. The last bag was all clumped up and the pellets were bigger with 2 different colored pellets in it and didn't look anything like what I had been getting. I threw it over the fence and the deer ate it but it sure took them long enough. | |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
        Location: Alberta | livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 3:51 PM dream_chaser - 2014-01-30 4:45 PM So is it required feed companies list ingredients on their products.....monitored by any Federal or State regulators? I don't know. I'll ask the next time I'm at the feed store
Thank you.....this just peaked my curiosity regarding that cause in Canada we do have federal regulators for all feed products made and labels are required.....we also are required to give our names when buying bagged feed types due to if any product is recalled.... | |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
       Location: relocated to Texas | texas taz - 2014-01-31 4:09 PM Boy is this ever an eye opener. I thought I was doing good feeding WellSolve Low Starch Low Sugar. Now what????
Those of you on here that hate Purina, What do you feed?
Mix my own, barley, oats and corn. Two parts barley, two parts oats to one part corn. Then I feed Dynamite minerals. At least I know they are getting whole grain, no molasses and the best minerals on the market (IMO). | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | texas taz - 2014-01-30 5:09 PM Boy is this ever an eye opener. I thought I was doing good feeding WellSolve Low Starch Low Sugar. Now what????
Those of you on here that hate Purina, What do you feed?
I feed very little grain so I was just feeding 2 cups of Triple Crown with beet pulp. I know feed Beet Pulp (4 cups dry and then add about 4 cups water to soak) with 1# Renew Gold. I also feed a THE product (I rotate products) and FORCO.
My horse gets Alfalfa along with free choice Coastal Hay. | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 5:13 PM cutnrunqhmt - 2014-01-30 5:04 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 5:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 5:56 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. I just fed my last bag of Triple Crown as getting Nutrena to mix their feed was a kiss of death. My very consistent Triple Crown Senior became the most inconstent crap. Pretty bad when my husband, who barely ever feeds, ask me when I changed my feed.. Southern States produces it here in the south. So I'll keep it. I am in Montana and our dealer had to send a bunch of Triple Crown back because there was oil pooling up under the stack of bags. They have been having a bunch of issues with it. I started feeding it in 1997 was so sad to see Nutrena take it over. I don't care for purina you just don't know what is in most of it, floor sweepings for all I know. We are bringing in some Tribute feed to try now. I agree...Very sad. I loved the Triple Crown Senior. Every single bag use to be the same. The last bag was all clumped up and the pellets were bigger with 2 different colored pellets in it and didn't look anything like what I had been getting. I threw it over the fence and the deer ate it but it sure took them long enough.
Hope the deer are OK. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 766
     Location: Texas | Thank yall for the information! Very appreciated. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | A lot of people don't realize that it was commerical feed companies that started Mad Cow Disease by putting ground bone and brain from animals into their feeds. Another example of being cheap and using everything possible to cut costs. There is a good reason why Proctor and Gamble has bought up some pet feed companies. They don't want to waste any by products. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | texas taz - 2014-01-30 5:21 PM Thank yall for the information! Very appreciated.
If I could get quality oats and Barley..that is what I would feed but the quality where I live are terrible so I gave up. | |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
       Location: Displaced Iowegian | hlynn - 2014-01-30 5:03 PM txaggiegal - 2014-01-30 6:00 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. FYI Triple Crown is owned by Nutrena, some of their mills still produce it, however I know in TX the Nutrena Giddings plant produces TC They're not owned by Nutrena. They contracted Nutrena to mill their feed out west. That's it.
If Triple Crown is MILES AHEAD of Nutrena........why do they have them making their feed?
Have you actually EVER been in any of the feed milling manufacturing plants? | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
     Location: Texas | I feed ADM Patriot feed. Our feed store delivers it to our house. I do like Purina's amplify supplement. It's a nice alternative for horses who don't like oil top dressed in their feed. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1067
   Location: Kansas | Purina is not fixed formula becuse they adjust the amount of wheat mids, SBM, alfala, etc they use is varied to get the protein etc required. From the horses in avatar loks like it is working! No worries! | |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | Another proud feeder of Purina. Been using it for longer than most have been alive. Here is the beauty of it. Zero numbers of colic I have had since using it, no founder, no skin issues, no problem. The many horses I fed on it again no issues even when hauling HARD. And these horse ran big and won big.
Use what works for you they say....I still do.
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
     Location: Wonderful Wyoming | yes Purina dog food and horse food are by seperate companies under the same name.
The only Purina feed I have used is Ultium Growth (love loved it) and now Ultium competition. Love it as well. Horse looks and feels great and like stated above, never had a belly ache.
I have used Omelene and it was full of mold. (2-3 bags) and it wasn't outdated.
I also use Safechoice. These 2 brands are all I have in my area. I prefer the Safechoice, but was recommended to use the Ultium on my show horse and why change when it is doing what it should. | |
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 Voice of Reason
     Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 3:23 PM A lot of people don't realize that it was commerical feed companies that started Mad Cow Disease by putting ground bone and brain from animals into their feeds. Another example of being cheap and using everything possible to cut costs. There is a good reason why Proctor and Gamble has bought up some pet feed companies. They don't want to waste any by products.
Ya ever looked at what's in a McDonald's chicken nugget?  If they put byproducts in their food, can you imagine what the feed mills are doing? | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | I am coming to believe that it depends on the product about as much as the company. We're still not finished going through labels but Purina Strategy uses the generic terms (at least the labels we have collected so far) -- ADM even uses soybean hulls, I think it's the first ingredient in the Senior Glo -- it appears Purina Sr might be a fixed formula (listed ingredients) -- we haven't gotten to any Nutrena labels yet.
I'm in the same boat as several others -- can't get much of anything here. I just switched to a TC product combined with Purina amplify (I believe amplify is a fixed formula) because I can't get the ADM I liked anymore. I didn't want to switch but did the best I could with what's available & we're not in the middle of no where but apparently in a wasteland when it comes to grain.
To the OP -- I believe I brought up 'generic labels' -- it was not meant to be insulting. At least not from me. A couple of others well......
I wish we had even more samples to go through for this project / because I was hoping to have a better idea of what's what on labels & ingredients when we were through. But we're running out of time & will have to work with what we have. | |
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I'm a Cry Baby
Posts: 3780
        Location: n.c. | I only feed the TC Senior to one here. That is the micro mini. And it is not consistent from bag to bag in appearance. But it is the only thing she can/will eat and it keeps her fat. So, one bag a month it is. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
    
| NJJ - 2014-01-30 6:27 PM
hlynn - 2014-01-30 5:03 PM txaggiegal - 2014-01-30 6:00 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. FYI Triple Crown is owned by Nutrena, some of their mills still produce it, however I know in TX the Nutrena Giddings plant produces TC They're not owned by Nutrena. They contracted Nutrena to mill their feed out west. That's it.
If Triple Crown is MILES AHEAD of Nutrena........why do they have them making their feed?
Have you actually EVER been in any of the feed milling manufacturing plants?
I had heard they sold it but looked it up and they say nutrena is just milling . I talked to a guy who swears they sold it he was a high up guy at TC . SO guess nutrena is just making it.
Edited by cutnrunqhmt 2014-01-30 7:37 PM
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | justcruzin - 2014-01-30 6:52 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 3:23 PM A lot of people don't realize that it was commerical feed companies that started Mad Cow Disease by putting ground bone and brain from animals into their feeds. Another example of being cheap and using everything possible to cut costs. There is a good reason why Proctor and Gamble has bought up some pet feed companies. They don't want to waste any by products. Ya ever looked at what's in a McDonald's chicken nugget?  If they put byproducts in their food, can you imagine what the feed mills are doing?
You got that right and is the reason I quit eating processed foods. Makes it great when shopping since you never enter the middle aisles...
I heard that China was going to start processing our chicken.. | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 8:10 PM justcruzin - 2014-01-30 6:52 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 3:23 PM A lot of people don't realize that it was commerical feed companies that started Mad Cow Disease by putting ground bone and brain from animals into their feeds. Another example of being cheap and using everything possible to cut costs. There is a good reason why Proctor and Gamble has bought up some pet feed companies. They don't want to waste any by products. Ya ever looked at what's in a McDonald's chicken nugget?  If they put byproducts in their food, can you imagine what the feed mills are doing? You got that right and is the reason I quit eating processed foods. Makes it great when shopping since you never enter the middle aisles...
I heard that China was going to start processing our chicken..
Its a conspiracy.. china killed off dogs from their chicken jerky.. | |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
     Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 6:14 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 8:10 PM justcruzin - 2014-01-30 6:52 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 3:23 PM A lot of people don't realize that it was commerical feed companies that started Mad Cow Disease by putting ground bone and brain from animals into their feeds. Another example of being cheap and using everything possible to cut costs. There is a good reason why Proctor and Gamble has bought up some pet feed companies. They don't want to waste any by products. Ya ever looked at what's in a McDonald's chicken nugget?  If they put byproducts in their food, can you imagine what the feed mills are doing? You got that right and is the reason I quit eating processed foods. Makes it great when shopping since you never enter the middle aisles...
I heard that China was going to start processing our chicken..
Its a conspiracy.. china killed off dogs from their chicken jerky..
I hate the thought of eating anything from there | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 907
     Location: a secret | Ok off purine for a moment what is he feedback on buckeye feeds anyone??? | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | So how come feed prices haven't come down yet since commodity prices are in the toilet? | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-30 7:41 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-30 6:14 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 8:10 PM justcruzin - 2014-01-30 6:52 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 3:23 PM A lot of people don't realize that it was commerical feed companies that started Mad Cow Disease by putting ground bone and brain from animals into their feeds. Another example of being cheap and using everything possible to cut costs. There is a good reason why Proctor and Gamble has bought up some pet feed companies. They don't want to waste any by products. Ya ever looked at what's in a McDonald's chicken nugget?  If they put byproducts in their food, can you imagine what the feed mills are doing? You got that right and is the reason I quit eating processed foods. Makes it great when shopping since you never enter the middle aisles...
I heard that China was going to start processing our chicken..
Its a conspiracy.. china killed off dogs from their chicken jerky.. I hate the thought of eating anything from there
A few years ago I bought a bag of Organic Broccoli and it came from China..Needless to say..I now read all labels.. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | HotPants - 2014-01-30 7:41 PM Ok off purine for a moment what is he feedback on buckeye feeds anyone???
I know years ago they were a good company..Don't have a clue about them now. Haven't seen any of their feed in over 18 years. | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 5:15 PM
texas taz - 2014-01-31 4:09 PM Boy is this ever an eye opener. I thought I was doing good feeding WellSolve Low Starch Low Sugar. Now what????
Those of you on here that hate Purina, What do you feed?
Mix my own, barley, oats and corn. Two parts barley, two parts oats to one part corn. Then I feed Dynamite minerals. At least I know they are getting whole grain, no molasses and the best minerals on the market (IMO).
A horse that needs a low starch diet cannot have corn, barley or oats. All are very high in starch. | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 5:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are?
Yes I know what those are...my husband was a trucker and has hauled many loads of both. Do you know what pasta is? And no I'm not talking about spaghetti | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | Three 4 Luck - 2014-01-30 7:42 PM So how come feed prices haven't come down yet since commodity prices are in the toilet?
Amen to that. It's ridiculous. My husband and I have decided to get out of farming. We were farming over 2000 acres, but inputs from the spring were high and with corn prices now, on top of our drought last year, we are done. Sadly we are selling our far too. I heard on the news that beef would be 6% higher this year because of high corn prices. I laughed out loud. I know it's from then high corn they bought last year to feed out but I bet beef doesn't go down next year in reflection to this years corn price! | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | dme0324 - 2014-01-30 7:06 PM I am coming to believe that it depends on the product about as much as the company. We're still not finished going through labels but Purina Strategy uses the generic terms (at least the labels we have collected so far) -- ADM even uses soybean hulls, I think it's the first ingredient in the Senior Glo -- it appears Purina Sr might be a fixed formula (listed ingredients) -- we haven't gotten to any Nutrena labels yet.
I'm in the same boat as several others -- can't get much of anything here. I just switched to a TC product combined with Purina amplify (I believe amplify is a fixed formula) because I can't get the ADM I liked anymore. I didn't want to switch but did the best I could with what's available & we're not in the middle of no where but apparently in a wasteland when it comes to grain.
To the OP -- I believe I brought up 'generic labels' -- it was not meant to be insulting. At least not from me. A couple of others well......
I wish we had even more samples to go through for this project / because I was hoping to have a better idea of what's what on labels & ingredients when we were through. But we're running out of time & will have to work with what we have.
I would be happy to send you the labels of the feed I have here. I feed strategy healthy edge, I don't like reg strategy, Ultium growth and enrich 32. I tried some of their cheaper feeds, but they were awful. I don't really like the feed, I think better is out there, but I don't have access to it | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 9:00 PM dme0324 - 2014-01-30 7:06 PM I am coming to believe that it depends on the product about as much as the company. We're still not finished going through labels but Purina Strategy uses the generic terms (at least the labels we have collected so far) -- ADM even uses soybean hulls, I think it's the first ingredient in the Senior Glo -- it appears Purina Sr might be a fixed formula (listed ingredients) -- we haven't gotten to any Nutrena labels yet.
I'm in the same boat as several others -- can't get much of anything here. I just switched to a TC product combined with Purina amplify (I believe amplify is a fixed formula) because I can't get the ADM I liked anymore. I didn't want to switch but did the best I could with what's available & we're not in the middle of no where but apparently in a wasteland when it comes to grain.
To the OP -- I believe I brought up 'generic labels' -- it was not meant to be insulting. At least not from me. A couple of others well......
I wish we had even more samples to go through for this project / because I was hoping to have a better idea of what's what on labels & ingredients when we were through. But we're running out of time & will have to work with what we have. I would be happy to send you the labels of the feed I have here. I feed strategy healthy edge, I don't like reg strategy, Ultium growth and enrich 32. I tried some of their cheaper feeds, but they were awful. I don't really like the feed, I think better is out there, but I don't have access to it
We are now short on time -- but if you can take pictures & post them (btw: I couldn't accomplish that, lol) -- we'd love to add more to the mix. The whole point of the project was to try to determine what's rumor and what's not concerning labels. Like I said on the other thread, I learned today from this thread that just because it says Purina doesn't mean it's going to have the generic terms (variable ingredients).
Anyone else that wants to post pics of labels, we're glad to have them. I may even start a new thread over the weekend asking. If you do, including price per bag & the general geographic location would be helpful.
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Posts: 4755
       Location: Windy Wyoming | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 3:00 PM
Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL
I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are?
Totally agree, just fillers and junk...... Purina and Nutrena both are terrible! Plus the recommended amount to feed of those feeds is just plain nuts. When I see people only feeding 1lb of a feed that your suppose to be feeding 10-14lbs you might as well throw your money away. I will stick with my Progressive feed that actually stands behind their products with no national backing.... | |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
       Location: Bandera, TX | If that horse in your picture is on your "progressive" I wouldn't change a thing! | |
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Posts: 4755
       Location: Windy Wyoming | uno-dos-tres! - 2014-01-31 5:48 AM
If that horse in your picture is on your "progressive" I wouldn't change a thing!
lol thank you, yes that is him and have several others that look just as good and only get 1-2 lbs of progressive feed and oats a day..... awesome feed :) | |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
       Location: Bandera, TX | livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 8:57 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-01-30 7:42 PM So how come feed prices haven't come down yet since commodity prices are in the toilet? Amen to that. It's ridiculous. My husband and I have decided to get out of farming. We were farming over 2000 acres, but inputs from the spring were high and with corn prices now, on top of our drought last year, we are done. Sadly we are selling our far too. I heard on the news that beef would be 6% higher this year because of high corn prices. I laughed out loud. I know it's from then high corn they bought last year to feed out but I bet beef doesn't go down next year in reflection to this years corn price!
I'm so sorry to hear you are having to leave your farming. But from a stockwomens position. Cattle prices are not going to drop because of national numbers. Its going to cost me a fortune to get back in after our drought. We are holding a small group of replacement females. We have sold 150 head of mommas. The crisis in farming and ranching is far from over. PS I keep my 9-5 and hubby takes care of ranching duties and picks up odd jobs to make ends meet. | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | dme0324 - 2014-01-31 7:03 AM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 9:00 PM dme0324 - 2014-01-30 7:06 PM I am coming to believe that it depends on the product about as much as the company. We're still not finished going through labels but Purina Strategy uses the generic terms (at least the labels we have collected so far) -- ADM even uses soybean hulls, I think it's the first ingredient in the Senior Glo -- it appears Purina Sr might be a fixed formula (listed ingredients) -- we haven't gotten to any Nutrena labels yet.
I'm in the same boat as several others -- can't get much of anything here. I just switched to a TC product combined with Purina amplify (I believe amplify is a fixed formula) because I can't get the ADM I liked anymore. I didn't want to switch but did the best I could with what's available & we're not in the middle of no where but apparently in a wasteland when it comes to grain.
To the OP -- I believe I brought up 'generic labels' -- it was not meant to be insulting. At least not from me. A couple of others well......
I wish we had even more samples to go through for this project / because I was hoping to have a better idea of what's what on labels & ingredients when we were through. But we're running out of time & will have to work with what we have. I would be happy to send you the labels of the feed I have here. I feed strategy healthy edge, I don't like reg strategy, Ultium growth and enrich 32. I tried some of their cheaper feeds, but they were awful. I don't really like the feed, I think better is out there, but I don't have access to it We are now short on time -- but if you can take pictures & post them (btw: I couldn't accomplish that, lol) -- we'd love to add more to the mix. The whole point of the project was to try to determine what's rumor and what's not concerning labels. Like I said on the other thread, I learned today from this thread that just because it says Purina doesn't mean it's going to have the generic terms (variable ingredients).
Anyone else that wants to post pics of labels, we're glad to have them. I may even start a new thread over the weekend asking. If you do, including price per bag & the general geographic location would be helpful.
I have tags for Omolene 500 and Nutrena Safechoice Sr. I'll try to get them posted for you. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
       Location: Bandera, TX | hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find.
I understand your positioning. I can't stand to mix feeds but here I am once again in my lifetime doing it. I grew a chunk of a colt off on Purina Ultium two years ago. I put two others and him on the regular Ultium. They didn't do near as well over a 5-6 mo. period.
When someone like NTO says your horses don't look to good I pay attention.
I'm custom mixing, all the grains you listed with the exception of soybean. Won't feed it or wheat to horses due to inflammation. I had a nutritionist from a very big company ask me to try a new feed. The broodies, and their babies better come shiney in a few weeks! I was quite surprised when they loaded my truck with it and the ticket had no charge, call feed developer with weekly updates.
My husband can mix, but face it its a PIA to do so. We're both hoping that the feed for the mares works out. I'll say this, I really like the Slick Mix and if it does everything they say I'll enjoy having my horses on a nearly all forage diet! | |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
       Location: Bandera, TX | CYA Ranch - 2014-01-30 7:59 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 5:15 PM texas taz - 2014-01-31 4:09 PM Boy is this ever an eye opener. I thought I was doing good feeding WellSolve Low Starch Low Sugar. Now what????
Those of you on here that hate Purina, What do you feed?
Mix my own, barley, oats and corn. Two parts barley, two parts oats to one part corn. Then I feed Dynamite minerals. At least I know they are getting whole grain, no molasses and the best minerals on the market (IMO). A horse that needs a low starch diet cannot have corn, barley or oats. All are very high in starch.
Please remember, it is where and how that starch is broken down that matters to the horse. Not all starch is bad! | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | uno-dos-tres! - 2014-01-31 8:09 AM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 8:57 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-01-30 7:42 PM So how come feed prices haven't come down yet since commodity prices are in the toilet? Amen to that. It's ridiculous. My husband and I have decided to get out of farming. We were farming over 2000 acres, but inputs from the spring were high and with corn prices now, on top of our drought last year, we are done. Sadly we are selling our far too. I heard on the news that beef would be 6% higher this year because of high corn prices. I laughed out loud. I know it's from then high corn they bought last year to feed out but I bet beef doesn't go down next year in reflection to this years corn price! I'm so sorry to hear you are having to leave your farming. But from a stockwomens position. Cattle prices are not going to drop because of national numbers. Its going to cost me a fortune to get back in after our drought. We are holding a small group of replacement females. We have sold 150 head of mommas. The crisis in farming and ranching is far from over. PS I keep my 9-5 and hubby takes care of ranching duties and picks up odd jobs to make ends meet.
It's kind of borderline on the having to sell part. We could try to keep the farm, it's 385 acres of really nice river bottom dirt, but we would have to roll our losses and the farm note into one note. Finance for 25 yrs and cash rent the farm out. If interst rises and land prices fall, causing cash rent to fall then we won't be able to pay the bank because even with jobs for each of us, we wouldn't make enough. So we decided to sell while land prices are high here, pay off everything and have a nice chunk left to invest. We are afraid in about 5 yrs when it all falls we will the be forced out and have nothing left. Agriculture is cyclical and land has been on a high, but we are a bumper crop away from even harder falling corn prices and land will follow. I hate it, my husband is the 3 rd in his family to own this but we feel it is the most sound financially decision. We will be better off. Might even be able to take a vacation! And the husband will have time to go to horse shows and ball games! I hope you can weather the drought and get back in. It's easier when you have regular jobs but we didn't. It was our full time gig | |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
       Location: Opelousas, LA | uno-dos-tres! - 2014-01-31 8:46 AM hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. I understand your positioning. I can't stand to mix feeds but here I am once again in my lifetime doing it. I grew a chunk of a colt off on Purina Ultium two years ago. I put two others and him on the regular Ultium. They didn't do near as well over a 5-6 mo. period.
When someone like NTO says your horses don't look to good I pay attention.
I'm custom mixing, all the grains you listed with the exception of soybean. Won't feed it or wheat to horses due to inflammation. I had a nutritionist from a very big company ask me to try a new feed. The broodies, and their babies better come shiney in a few weeks! I was quite surprised when they loaded my truck with it and the ticket had no charge, call feed developer with weekly updates.
My husband can mix, but face it its a PIA to do so. We're both hoping that the feed for the mares works out.
I'll say this, I really like the Slick Mix and if it does everything they say I'll enjoy having my horses on a nearly all forage diet!
Could you keep us updated on how you like your new feed? There is a Ralco dealer about an hour south of me and my feed mill would do a custom mix if I asked them to.
I respect your opinion on feeding for performance and am always looking to better our program. It is tough to run a clean program and still win at the racetrack. I hate to be one of those people always looking for the next best thing, but feeding what everyone else does just doesn't work for us. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
       Location: Bandera, TX | I'm getting a little long in the tooth and still trying to improve. I love doing my research, and like you want to keep it clean! The horse doesn't burn out when good things are used in him.
Talk to Ralco, their looking for racetrack feed back on their feed. The research on the Fl running horses on their Equi-Fib product convinced me to give it a try on my 6 yo Geld I hope to rodeo on a little bit.
I have a meeting set to talk with the developer of the feed and her reasoning on certian additions. I feel pretty certian is the "fillers" UGH! | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | lisamm - 2014-01-31 7:35 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 3:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are? Totally agree, just fillers and junk...... Purina and Nutrena both are terrible! Plus the recommended amount to feed of those feeds is just plain nuts. When I see people only feeding 1lb of a feed that your suppose to be feeding 10-14lbs you might as well throw your money away. I will stick with my Progressive feed that actually stands behind their products with no national backing....
Which Progressive item do you feed? | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | Another interesting discovery in the feed room this morning. My Ultium growth has ingredients listed on the bag. No tag like my healthy edge. Hmmm. What does that mean? | |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12704
     
| Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 4:56 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. I just fed my last bag of Triple Crown as getting Nutrena to mix their feed was a kiss of death. My very consistent Triple Crown Senior became the most inconstent crap. Pretty bad when my husband, who barely ever feeds, ask me when I changed my feed..
Ding! This is what sent me on the hunt for a new feed program last spring. My TC feeds looked different every week. Some had lots of corn, some less, some the pellets were dark and soft, some were lighter and hard as little bricks. Bags were inconsistently dry or sticky too. After hours and hours of research, calls, reading, and even touching and sniffing, I decided to try the forage only diet that I'm still on and loving. | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I have many thoughts on both sides of this subject. I see this board as primarily Republican??- yet I see the bashing of business for profit for our companies that support our lifestyle such as Purina? I often see topics on here for CHEAPEST supplement, CHEAPEST way to mix your own feed, CHEAP family meals...ect yet you all are bashing a company for trying to make a profit (ie buy at a savings)- Im confused. Do you really think they cheapen the feed to kill animals? Seriously? Are they bad people for doing on a larger level what we all seem to discuss/practice on a daily basis on here?
Do you understand that if they went straight whole ingredients, A: they would have trouble with commidity prices and fuel (for delivery both to and from) so the price would flucuate constantly or there would be outages B: there would be cycles when it was high and no one would buy as quickly so you have waste and mold therefore also rolling in to loss/cost basis C: there would still be internet bashing for "why cant they buy better and forcast to keep us in constant supply...."
Any more I do not consider wheat bran (wheat midds) soy bean meal or hulls and so on-- to be floor sweepings- they are by products-- It is using the whole plant. It is nothing more than buying whole grain flour to make your bread. As long as they do not have chemicals- I do not consider them "processed feed"much like human food.
Lastly, do you think the whole oats and other grains available are what the little mill is buying are any better than what National Company X is buying?
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | lonely va barrelxr - 2014-01-31 10:28 AM Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 4:56 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. I just fed my last bag of Triple Crown as getting Nutrena to mix their feed was a kiss of death. My very consistent Triple Crown Senior became the most inconstent crap. Pretty bad when my husband, who barely ever feeds, ask me when I changed my feed..
Ding! This is what sent me on the hunt for a new feed program last spring. My TC feeds looked different every week. Some had lots of corn, some less, some the pellets were dark and soft, some were lighter and hard as little bricks. Bags were inconsistently dry or sticky too.
After hours and hours of research, calls, reading, and even touching and sniffing, I decided to try the forage only diet that I'm still on and loving.
I just got some bags in that were very sticky/oily.
I emailed TC with my lot number, and they were extremely helpful. They showed me how to read the lot number, and they also told me that fresher bags are going to be more oily. As the bags sit, the beet pulp tends to absorb the oil and the feed appears drier.
Makes sense as to why my bags are very oily...the feed was milled Dec 18. in CO (which btw is a cargill/nutrena plant).
She told me if the feed is dark, to contact her and even send pics if neccessary. I am going to take another look at my bags, but I believe it is just oil as the consultant described. They did seem concerned and wanted more info if I am not happy, so they appear to be very interested in customer satisfaction.
Personally, it is the best feed I have access too. I will continue to feed it, and honestly I like the results I have seen as well. My hard keeper is shiny and has no issues holding weight like he did on any other feed (except Ultium). | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | BTW, they said the corn comes from the run-throughs at the mill.
the feed should not have corn in it. If it has too much, they said to contact them and they will replace your bags. I know you are not feeding this any more, but some may benefit from this info. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
       Location: Bandera, TX | lonely va barrelxr - 2014-01-31 10:28 AM
Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 4:56 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. I just fed my last bag of Triple Crown as getting Nutrena to mix their feed was a kiss of death. My very consistent Triple Crown Senior became the most inconstent crap. Pretty bad when my husband, who barely ever feeds, ask me when I changed my feed..
Ding! This is what sent me on the hunt for a new feed program last spring. My TC feeds looked different every week. Some had lots of corn, some less, some the pellets were dark and soft, some were lighter and hard as little bricks. Bags were inconsistently dry or sticky too. After hours and hours of research, calls, reading, and even touching and sniffing, I decided to try the forage only diet that I'm still on and loving.
How hard are you riding yours? I really wanted to do this and was told by a nutritionist that it wouldn't be possible with the calories that I burned on my horses. I have 3 performance horses 5 yrs to 2 yrs and 3 mares about to pop. Keeping everything "balanced" was the big issue! | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | HotPants - 2014-01-30 7:41 PM Ok off purine for a moment what is he feedback on buckeye feeds anyone???
Buckeye has their ingredients listed on Gro N Win as: Dehulled SBM, Processed SB, Wheat Midds, DDG (distillers dried grain---VERY processed corn by product btw), Alfalfa meal and so on....just FYI. | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | dream_chaser - 2014-01-30 4:45 PM So is it required feed companies list ingredients on their products.....monitored by any Federal or State regulators?
In Oklahoma they are regulated (random testing weekly both bags and bulk) and fined if they do not meet the label. | |
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 The Comeback Kid
Posts: 1564
    Location: lost in missouri | We have jumped around trying different feeds on differenet horses ye we always come back to Purina products. I have spent a lot of time their facility in Missouri many times where they do the equine feed research and the mill. I absolutely cannot believe the bashing that goes on here anymore on every topic. I guess i dont love my animals because I feed them Purina products even though they look great and perform wonderfully. Purina feeder, supporter and proud of it. It works for our barn. For us to buy all the products in the raw and make our own feed we would be broke in 2 months. Purina puts out a great product at a good value. if your horse didnt do well on it doesnt mean the product is inferior it means it just didnt work for your horse. Just like in humans what some of us eat others cannot. When you are looking at feed labels you have to keep in mind that what one company may put in their feed in one part of the country will differ in another part because they will make adjustments for soil content in the particular region as well as weather factors. So when a label may not read the same from one state to another that is the reason as well as by season they will change due to weather factors especially in states with humidity. Equine Senior, Junior, Strategy, Omolene feeds are supposed to be the same region to region for those traveling a lot with horses can be assured of the same mix no matter where they are traveling in the US. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
    
| uno-dos-tres! - 2014-01-31 9:58 AM
I'm getting a little long in the tooth and still trying to improve. I love doing my research, and like you want to keep it clean! The horse doesn't burn out when good things are used in him.
Talk to Ralco, their looking for racetrack feed back on their feed. The research on the Fl running horses on their Equi-Fib product convinced me to give it a try on my 6 yo Geld I hope to rodeo on a little bit.
I have a meeting set to talk with the developer of the feed and her reasoning on certian additions. I feel pretty certian is the "fillers" UGH!
I like you love to research everything for my horses. We had racehorses and total believe that we got more out of them than some other trainers did because they were fed the very best. I try to do all I can for them can't always do what I would like but try. I only have oats and a vit/min supplement right now but it is a good one and they all look great. I will chat about feeds ect for hours or longer if someone will talk with me about it. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1074
  
| Some friends of ours went and toured the Purina manufacturing plant. They were so meticulous on everything they did. It's really confusing to me that so many people dislike their feed due to the differences in their products, but at the plants, it's such a different story. We feed Purina products with really good results. Choosing a feed is getting to be very challenging. | |
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Posts: 4755
       Location: Windy Wyoming | TurnLane - 2014-01-31 8:16 AM
lisamm - 2014-01-31 7:35 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 3:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are? Totally agree, just fillers and junk...... Purina and Nutrena both are terrible! Plus the recommended amount to feed of those feeds is just plain nuts. When I see people only feeding 1lb of a feed that your suppose to be feeding 10-14lbs you might as well throw your money away. I will stick with my Progressive feed that actually stands behind their products with no national backing....
Which Progressive item do you feed?
I feed http://www.prognutrition.com/pagrassformula.html costs about $35 a bag but lasts me 25 days on my stud and about 40 days on my mares.... we use to feed stategy years ago and had to feed 17lbs A DAY to keep weight on one of my show horses, it was nuts! Then all the corn and sugar in the inconsistent products in the omolene made my college rodeo mare a complete wack job! We also had issues with the horses eating it one week and get a new bag and wouldn't touch it, that tells me they change their feed! I have NEVER once had that issue with progressive feed! I now feed 2lbs of progressive to my stallion and 1.5lbs to my mares plus crimped oats. I have never been more happy, we switched over 7 years ago and never looked back. We attended a feed seminar oh about 3 years ago and I will never let my horses eat purina or nutrena again thats all I will say about that. This is a awesome fat supp too I have used....http://www.prognutrition.com/envisionclassic.html
I recently switched to progressive mineral too and they LOVE it! I have a regular mineral and salt block they eat on a little, the redmonds my horses wont even look at it and now the have the progressive loose mineral and block out and they eat on it much more than the others! I have left them all out there to monitor and they have not touched the others since putting the progressive mineral out. Wonderful products, best on the market IMO http://www.prognutrition.com/grassmineral.html
I just went on purina and found average feeding for a breeding stallion and a heavy worked horse:
Strategy 8.25-16 pounds a day!
Omolene 7.5-16 pounds a day
so these feeds you are getting 4-6 days of feeding out of a bag, because if you don't feed the noted values you might as well not feed it at all...
Progressive grass 3pound MAX for breeding stallion and heavy worked horses so 50# bag lasts 16 days
Like I said everyone has their opinions but I feel progressive offers the best product on the market and my horses all love it :) | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | lisamm - 2014-01-31 11:17 AM TurnLane - 2014-01-31 8:16 AM lisamm - 2014-01-31 7:35 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 3:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are? Totally agree, just fillers and junk...... Purina and Nutrena both are terrible! Plus the recommended amount to feed of those feeds is just plain nuts. When I see people only feeding 1lb of a feed that your suppose to be feeding 10-14lbs you might as well throw your money away. I will stick with my Progressive feed that actually stands behind their products with no national backing.... Which Progressive item do you feed? I feed http://www.prognutrition.com/pagrassformula.html costs about $35 a bag but lasts me 25 days on my stud and about 40 days on my mares.... we use to feed stategy years ago and had to feed 17lbs A DAY to keep weight on one of my show horses, it was nuts! Then all the corn and sugar in the inconsistent products in the omolene made my college rodeo mare a complete wack job! We also had issues with the horses eating it one week and get a new bag and wouldn't touch it, that tells me they change their feed! I have NEVER once had that issue with progressive feed! I now feed 2lbs of progressive to my stallion and 1.5lbs to my mares plus crimped oats. I have never been more happy, we switched over 7 years ago and never looked back. We attended a feed seminar oh about 3 years ago and I will never let my horses eat purina or nutrena again thats all I will say about that. This is a awesome fat supp too I have used....http://www.prognutrition.com/envisionclassic.html I recently switched to progressive mineral too and they LOVE it! I have a regular mineral and salt block they eat on a little, the redmonds my horses wont even look at it and now the have the progressive loose mineral and block out and they eat on it much more than the others! I have left them all out there to monitor and they have not touched the others since putting the progressive mineral out. Wonderful products, best on the market IMO http://www.prognutrition.com/grassmineral.html I just went on purina and found average feeding for a breeding stallion and a heavy worked horse: Strategy 8.25-16 pounds a day! Omolene 7.5-16 pounds a day so these feeds you are getting 4-6 days of feeding out of a bag, because if you don't feed the noted values you might as well not feed it at all... Progressive grass 3pound MAX for breeding stallion and heavy worked horses so 50# bag lasts 16 days Like I said everyone has their opinions but I feel progressive offers the best product on the market and my horses all love it : )
Thanks for posting the link so the Purina haters can see the same by products as the primary ingredients (GASP!!) | |
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 The Comeback Kid
Posts: 1564
    Location: lost in missouri | TurnLane - 2014-01-31 11:27 AM lisamm - 2014-01-31 11:17 AM TurnLane - 2014-01-31 8:16 AM lisamm - 2014-01-31 7:35 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 3:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are? Totally agree, just fillers and junk...... Purina and Nutrena both are terrible! Plus the recommended amount to feed of those feeds is just plain nuts. When I see people only feeding 1lb of a feed that your suppose to be feeding 10-14lbs you might as well throw your money away. I will stick with my Progressive feed that actually stands behind their products with no national backing.... Which Progressive item do you feed? I feed http://www.prognutrition.com/pagrassformula.html costs about $35 a bag but lasts me 25 days on my stud and about 40 days on my mares.... we use to feed stategy years ago and had to feed 17lbs A DAY to keep weight on one of my show horses, it was nuts! Then all the corn and sugar in the inconsistent products in the omolene made my college rodeo mare a complete wack job! We also had issues with the horses eating it one week and get a new bag and wouldn't touch it, that tells me they change their feed! I have NEVER once had that issue with progressive feed! I now feed 2lbs of progressive to my stallion and 1.5lbs to my mares plus crimped oats. I have never been more happy, we switched over 7 years ago and never looked back. We attended a feed seminar oh about 3 years ago and I will never let my horses eat purina or nutrena again thats all I will say about that. This is a awesome fat supp too I have used....http://www.prognutrition.com/envisionclassic.html I recently switched to progressive mineral too and they LOVE it! I have a regular mineral and salt block they eat on a little, the redmonds my horses wont even look at it and now the have the progressive loose mineral and block out and they eat on it much more than the others! I have left them all out there to monitor and they have not touched the others since putting the progressive mineral out. Wonderful products, best on the market IMO http://www.prognutrition.com/grassmineral.html I just went on purina and found average feeding for a breeding stallion and a heavy worked horse: Strategy 8.25-16 pounds a day! Omolene 7.5-16 pounds a day so these feeds you are getting 4-6 days of feeding out of a bag, because if you don't feed the noted values you might as well not feed it at all... Progressive grass 3pound MAX for breeding stallion and heavy worked horses so 50# bag lasts 16 days Like I said everyone has their opinions but I feel progressive offers the best product on the market and my horses all love it : ) Thanks for posting the link so the Purina haters can see the same by products as the primary ingredients (GASP!!) Hmm same products as Purina and between the progressive grass supplement and the oats it says to feed with it I will b feeding 12 to 17lbs of feed a day. same thing u just grumbled about Purina with the amounts of the feed you have to feed. On another note you can feed Ultium and Strategy Edge as a top dress meaning 1 pound a day on top of your sweet mix and get wonderful results in putting on weight and their coats are just amazing. You do not have to feed the recommended amt to see results out of products you have to feed to your region and your horse needs. I have found that not one formula works for every horse.
Edited by redracinmo 2014-01-31 11:39 AM
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Expert
Posts: 4766
       Location: Bandera, TX | redracinmo - 2014-01-31 10:48 AM We have jumped around trying different feeds on differenet horses ye we always come back to Purina products. I have spent a lot of time their facility in Missouri many times where they do the equine feed research and the mill. I absolutely cannot believe the bashing that goes on here anymore on every topic. I guess i dont love my animals because I feed them Purina products even though they look great and perform wonderfully. Purina feeder, supporter and proud of it. It works for our barn. For us to buy all the products in the raw and make our own feed we would be broke in 2 months. Purina puts out a great product at a good value. if your horse didnt do well on it doesnt mean the product is inferior it means it just didnt work for your horse. Just like in humans what some of us eat others cannot. When you are looking at feed labels you have to keep in mind that what one company may put in their feed in one part of the country will differ in another part because they will make adjustments for soil content in the particular region as well as weather factors. So when a label may not read the same from one state to another that is the reason as well as by season they will change due to weather factors especially in states with humidity. Equine Senior, Junior, Strategy, Omolene feeds are supposed to be the same region to region for those traveling a lot with horses can be assured of the same mix no matter where they are traveling in the US.
I talked to Charmayne about how she fed on the road a year or so ago. I had gone out for three weeks ran out of grain (yep, I'm bad at math) had issues with ulcers by the end of the trip. She always had enough of her grain so she didn't run into regional changes and upsetting the apple cart. | |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
       Location: Opelousas, LA | redracinmo - 2014-01-31 11:37 AM TurnLane - 2014-01-31 11:27 AM lisamm - 2014-01-31 11:17 AM TurnLane - 2014-01-31 8:16 AM lisamm - 2014-01-31 7:35 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 3:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are? Totally agree, just fillers and junk...... Purina and Nutrena both are terrible! Plus the recommended amount to feed of those feeds is just plain nuts. When I see people only feeding 1lb of a feed that your suppose to be feeding 10-14lbs you might as well throw your money away. I will stick with my Progressive feed that actually stands behind their products with no national backing.... Which Progressive item do you feed? I feed http://www.prognutrition.com/pagrassformula.html costs about $35 a bag but lasts me 25 days on my stud and about 40 days on my mares.... we use to feed stategy years ago and had to feed 17lbs A DAY to keep weight on one of my show horses, it was nuts! Then all the corn and sugar in the inconsistent products in the omolene made my college rodeo mare a complete wack job! We also had issues with the horses eating it one week and get a new bag and wouldn't touch it, that tells me they change their feed! I have NEVER once had that issue with progressive feed! I now feed 2lbs of progressive to my stallion and 1.5lbs to my mares plus crimped oats. I have never been more happy, we switched over 7 years ago and never looked back. We attended a feed seminar oh about 3 years ago and I will never let my horses eat purina or nutrena again thats all I will say about that. This is a awesome fat supp too I have used....http://www.prognutrition.com/envisionclassic.html I recently switched to progressive mineral too and they LOVE it! I have a regular mineral and salt block they eat on a little, the redmonds my horses wont even look at it and now the have the progressive loose mineral and block out and they eat on it much more than the others! I have left them all out there to monitor and they have not touched the others since putting the progressive mineral out. Wonderful products, best on the market IMO http://www.prognutrition.com/grassmineral.html I just went on purina and found average feeding for a breeding stallion and a heavy worked horse: Strategy 8.25-16 pounds a day! Omolene 7.5-16 pounds a day so these feeds you are getting 4-6 days of feeding out of a bag, because if you don't feed the noted values you might as well not feed it at all... Progressive grass 3pound MAX for breeding stallion and heavy worked horses so 50# bag lasts 16 days Like I said everyone has their opinions but I feel progressive offers the best product on the market and my horses all love it : ) Thanks for posting the link so the Purina haters can see the same by products as the primary ingredients (GASP!!) Hmm same products as Purina and between the progressive grass supplement and the oats it says to feed with it I will b feeding 12 to 17lbs of feed a day. same thing u just grumbled about Purina with the amounts of the feed you have to feed. On another note you can feed Ultium and Strategy Edge as a top dress meaning 1 pound a day on top of your sweet mix and get wonderful results in putting on weight and their coats are just amazing. You do not have to feed the recommended amt to see results out of products you have to feed to your region and your horse needs. I have found that not one formula works for every horse.
That is how we use Ultium on our racehorses, we feed a dry COB mix that also has alfalfa pellets from our local mill and top dress 2lbs a day of Ultium. Very cost effective, our horses look great, and we have almost eliminated ulcer issues.
Here are pics of a colt we just sold, he was given to us because he was a bit of a bronc to say the least. He did great on this feed program, plenty of energy but not hot or stupid.
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | uno-dos-tres! - 2014-01-31 11:38 AM redracinmo - 2014-01-31 10:48 AM We have jumped around trying different feeds on differenet horses ye we always come back to Purina products. I have spent a lot of time their facility in Missouri many times where they do the equine feed research and the mill. I absolutely cannot believe the bashing that goes on here anymore on every topic. I guess i dont love my animals because I feed them Purina products even though they look great and perform wonderfully. Purina feeder, supporter and proud of it. It works for our barn. For us to buy all the products in the raw and make our own feed we would be broke in 2 months. Purina puts out a great product at a good value. if your horse didnt do well on it doesnt mean the product is inferior it means it just didnt work for your horse. Just like in humans what some of us eat others cannot. When you are looking at feed labels you have to keep in mind that what one company may put in their feed in one part of the country will differ in another part because they will make adjustments for soil content in the particular region as well as weather factors. So when a label may not read the same from one state to another that is the reason as well as by season they will change due to weather factors especially in states with humidity. Equine Senior, Junior, Strategy, Omolene feeds are supposed to be the same region to region for those traveling a lot with horses can be assured of the same mix no matter where they are traveling in the US. I talked to Charmayne about how she fed on the road a year or so ago. I had gone out for three weeks ran out of grain (yep, I'm bad at math) had issues with ulcers by the end of the trip. She always had enough of her grain so she didn't run into regional changes and upsetting the apple cart.
What does CJ feed now that Scampers choice is no longer made? Or does she still have her own milled just for her own use? | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | barrelrider - 2014-01-31 11:09 AM Some friends of ours went and toured the Purina manufacturing plant. They were so meticulous on everything they did. It's really confusing to me that so many people dislike their feed due to the differences in their products, but at the plants, it's such a different story. We feed Purina products with really good results. Choosing a feed is getting to be very challenging.
Their feed is milled at different locations all over the country. Remember this Opps moment? Why would any feed company think that feeding animals back to animals was okay? It's called greed...plain and simple. ~~Purina Mills admits cow rule broken January 27, 2001 By Steve Brisendine - Associated Press The quarantine of 1,221 cattle and recall of 22 tons of feed out of fears about mad cow disease may have been caused by a mill that disclosed a possible rule violation. A Purina Mills Inc. plant may have mixed cow meat and bone meal into a feed supplement that was put on the wrong truck, said Beverly Boyd, spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Agriculture. A Purina Mills spokesman said Friday the company had begun phasing out the use of meat and bone meal from cows in any of its livestock feed. Beef byproducts are banned for cattle or sheep feed but commonly used in swine and poultry feed. ``This (quarantine) just happened to be a matter of timing. But as of last night, we are no longer using it,'' said Max Fisher, a spokesman for St. Louis-based Purina Mills, the nation's largest maker of livestock feed. ``It's a voluntary move on our behalf and takes us down to a zero risk factor for a misformulation in the future.'' The questionable feed supplement was manufactured by a Purina Mills plant in Gonzales, Texas, on the evening of Jan. 16 and recalled on Jan. 17 after a standard check revealed the mistake, Fisher said. The company said it called the Food and Drug Administration after the error was discovered through internal controls. Mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy, is believed to cause variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the fatal human equivalent of mad cow disease. Some 80 Europeans have died of new variant CJD since the mid-1990s, and beef sales have plummeted on that continent. The disease has never been found in U.S. cattle, and in its news release, Purina stressed that it only uses meat and bone meal from U.S.-grown animals and only in those products in which it is allowed. Mad cow scare caused Purina quarantine, government says January 26, 2001 By Steve Brisendine, - Associated Press The quarantine of a Texas cattle herd that may have eaten feed banned in the U.S. to prevent mad cow disease shows how well government protections on the food supply work, an industry official said. But while industry and government officials stress that the risk is small, cattle ranchers fear the mix-up might be enough to taint public perception, just as beef was rebounding after a decade of flat sales. "The key message consumers need to hear is that we have taken aggressive steps in the U.S. to keep problem from occurring, and that U.S. beef continues to be wholesome, nutritious food," said Todd Domer, a spokesman for the Kansas Livestock Association. U.S. beef consumption rose 2 percent in 1999 to 66.2 pounds per person, the highest since the 1980s, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. For much of the '90s, a nation long known for its love of burgers and steaks seemed to have had its fill of red meat amid concerns it might be linked to high cholesterol and heart disease. Cattlemen say just mentioning the possibility of the brain-wasting disease infecting the nation's beef supply could cause consumers to think twice about buying beef and cause those numbers to retreat. "Unfortunately, perception amounts to a lot in a lot of things, and this is not any different than a lot of them," said rancher Adrian Casey, who shoveled manure from a stall late Thursday at a stock show in Fort Worth. The questionable feed supplement was manufactured by a Purina Mills plant in Gonzales, Texas. The company said the error was discovered through its "quality assurance program" of internal controls, and it called the Food and Drug Administration. Sources who spoke on condition of anonymity identified the feedlot as Vaqueros of Texas Cattle Feeders in Floresville, 28 miles southeast of San Antonio. Purina notified nearby feedlot operators of the FDA investigation. "It scared us half to death," said Caroline Morris, whose husband owns Morris Cattle Co. in Pearsall, Texas. "It would hurt our business if the housewives thought there was some of that (BSE) in the United States." Burt Rutherford, a spokesman for the Texas Cattle Feeders Association, praised the mill for quickly notifying the FDA and the feedlot. "They've pulled samples of feed and are running tests on it now," Rutherford said. "We should know the results early next week." Mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy, is believed to cause variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the fatal human equivalent of mad cow disease. Some 80 Europeans have died of new variant CJD since the mid-1990s, and beef sales have plummeted on that continent. "For some reason, publicity surrounding this has kind of taken on a life of its own, even though the problem is across the big pond," Domer said. The disease has never been found in U.S. cattle, and in its release Purina stressed that it only uses meat and bone meal from U.S.-grown animals and only in those products where it is allowed. As a precaution, the government has banned cows and sheep from being given feed made from animal parts, no matter what their country of origin. A recent FDA report found hundreds of feed makers were violating labeling requirements and other rules associated with the ban. The National Cattlemen's Beef Association has organized a private meeting Monday involving representatives of the industry and officials from the FDA and the Agriculture Department to press for better compliance. "We certainly want feed companies to be in compliance," Domer said. "We even have members talking to their feed companies making sure they're in compliance. They're that serious about the situation." | |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12704
     
| uno-dos-tres! - 2014-01-31 10:41 AM lonely va barrelxr - 2014-01-31 10:28 AM Nevertooold - 2014-01-30 4:56 PM hlynn - 2014-01-30 4:50 PM Purina is the low man on the totem pole. They have a decent tag. But there's no guarantee that they use the same amounts of each ingredient every time. And yes, with a non-fixed formula feed you could have two very different versions of your feed within a few bags. Processes feed isn't perfect. But companies like Triple Crown, Buckeye, Seminole, Blue Bonnet, ADM, and a few others are miles ahead of Purina/Nutrena. They have better ingredients. Better formulas. And better nutrition. If I could afford to feed raw materials to my herd, I would. But to get the nutrition from raw feeds that I get from TC Senior, I would have to spend quite a bit. Rice bran. Flax. Pre/probiotic. Alfalfa meal. Beet pulp. Soybean meal. Etc. So I choose to feed the best processed feed I can find. I just fed my last bag of Triple Crown as getting Nutrena to mix their feed was a kiss of death. My very consistent Triple Crown Senior became the most inconstent crap. Pretty bad when my husband, who barely ever feeds, ask me when I changed my feed..
Ding! This is what sent me on the hunt for a new feed program last spring. My TC feeds looked different every week. Some had lots of corn, some less, some the pellets were dark and soft, some were lighter and hard as little bricks. Bags were inconsistently dry or sticky too.
After hours and hours of research, calls, reading, and even touching and sniffing, I decided to try the forage only diet that I'm still on and loving. How hard are you riding yours? I really wanted to do this and was told by a nutritionist that it wouldn't be possible with the calories that I burned on my horses. I have 3 performance horses 5 yrs to 2 yrs and 3 mares about to pop. Keeping everything "balanced" was the big issue!
I transitioned my feed program during April/May 2013 and all but the lactating mares were off bagged product by July 1 when I left for Kansas again. During my absence my friend was riding for me. One of my horses, Xena, the higher strung of my two competition horses, started dropping a bit of weight. I increased her to 2 of the big flakes of alfalfa ( each flake runs 6-8 lbs) per day instead of the 1 that everyone else was on. By the time I got home she was all fat again. I started riding almost every day starting mid-August and through mid-October. I put those three horses back on about 1 lb of feed so I could add rice bran and soy oil. I also decreased Xena back to the 1 flake of alfalfa. When I quit riding so much I took the fats out and now they only get something in a bucket for special reasons, i.e., I started adding salt/mineral when this arctic blast started. They are still all level to crater backed with no ribs and fantastic coats, hooves (my farrier has been so pleased at the quality and growth!), and attitudes. Since only about 30% or so of their diet is that high powered alfalfa they have shown no signs of 'hotness' from it.
No horse burns more calories than Xena. She gets all hyped up any time her feet are moving faster than a walk. I always keep an eye on everyone to make sure weight is good and adjust as necessary. I keep a bag of TC Complete around for the in-case need, plus if I need to feed minerals or fats. No program is absolutely perfect, but I know I don't have to worry about 'processing' issues with the forage diet.
Keep in mind that the alfalfa I'm feeding costs almost as much per pound as top quality bagged feed. 120# bales are $39.00. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Doesn't matter what grain you feed if the quality of your hay sucks. I know a lot of people that feed a good quality of Alfafla and Coastal along with minerals and their horses look amazing. | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 1:40 PM Doesn't matter what grain you feed if the quality of your hay sucks. I know a lot of people that feed a good quality of Alfafla and Coastal along with minerals and their horses look amazing.
I agree 250%!!! | |
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Regular
Posts: 61
 
| While I haven't followed this thread I will try and shine some light on to what the OP was wondering about Soy Bean Hulls. I worked for 2 animal nutirition companies in Canada and the last company I worked for actually based their feed's on Soybean Hulls. Soybean Hulls are not a filler, they are actually the outer part of the seed that are milled off. They are low in NSC as the seed and the hull are actually seperated from one another. They are a very stable fibre source for horses. There are two products here in Alberta that main ingredient is Soybean Hulls, Hoffman's Horse Ration and Anchor R's custom feed. The nutritionist who formulated both products was, or still is conducting research on Soy Bean Hulls being a suitable base for a ration for horses recovering from colic surgery, that's how stable the ingredient is.
To try and help disban some of the concerns regarding extra ingrediants in feed, ie corn in bags that shouldn't have corn in it, a feed mill is a very complex unit with multiple augers, bins, mixers, bagging chutes etc. While companies flush these between products, ie a dry run of oats, wheat, corn etc, not every nook and crany can be cleaned, that's why the odd time you will see corn or other basic grains mixed in, these flush products might get knocked out of somewhere with the right jolt of the mixer. What the consumer does need to confident in is that the right steps are taken to ensure the safety of their animals. For example, in Canada there is a product called Rumension that is added to Beef calf feed, that will kill a horse if it consumed. Where a feed mill goes and takes the necessary percautions is that the mill is flushed after that product is made, and then a feed for other ruminants is made follow ( IE Dairy feed following), there is a mininmun of 3 feeds and 3 flushed to be made after the Medicated feed prior to horse feed being made to reduce the risk of horse feed coming in contamination of that medication.
While I am not 100% sure of the practises in the US, in Canada, the ingredients are not listed on the bag, just the guaranteed analysis. Feed ingredient listing can be requested by the consumer but they are not provided on the bag.
I am totally open to answering as manye questions that I can, however it has been 3 years since of left that field.
Brandi | |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
     Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 12:40 PM Doesn't matter what grain you feed if the quality of your hay sucks. I know a lot of people that feed a good quality of Alfafla and Coastal along with minerals and their horses look amazing.
This is true. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 941
      Location: Kansas | I agree that the quality and quantity of the hay you feed is important. We have wintered the adult herd on fertilized endophyte free fescue and brome. They are fat even with our cold winter. We don't feed alfalfa and won't. We spent more than $1,300 last month saving a young prospect who was at our trainers from alfalfa beetle poisening. She made it but (at least in our country) it is very dangerous to feed alfalfa. We feed the young horses Strategy and feel like we get good growth without worrying about too much growth.
We have mixed our own feed over the years and had feed mixed at an elevator. That is very labor intensive and not something we choose to do anymore. | |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
           Location: Kansas | Barnmom - 2014-01-31 12:16 PM redracinmo - 2014-01-31 11:37 AM TurnLane - 2014-01-31 11:27 AM lisamm - 2014-01-31 11:17 AM TurnLane - 2014-01-31 8:16 AM lisamm - 2014-01-31 7:35 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 3:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are? Totally agree, just fillers and junk...... Purina and Nutrena both are terrible! Plus the recommended amount to feed of those feeds is just plain nuts. When I see people only feeding 1lb of a feed that your suppose to be feeding 10-14lbs you might as well throw your money away. I will stick with my Progressive feed that actually stands behind their products with no national backing.... Which Progressive item do you feed? I feed http://www.prognutrition.com/pagrassformula.html costs about $35 a bag but lasts me 25 days on my stud and about 40 days on my mares.... we use to feed stategy years ago and had to feed 17lbs A DAY to keep weight on one of my show horses, it was nuts! Then all the corn and sugar in the inconsistent products in the omolene made my college rodeo mare a complete wack job! We also had issues with the horses eating it one week and get a new bag and wouldn't touch it, that tells me they change their feed! I have NEVER once had that issue with progressive feed! I now feed 2lbs of progressive to my stallion and 1.5lbs to my mares plus crimped oats. I have never been more happy, we switched over 7 years ago and never looked back. We attended a feed seminar oh about 3 years ago and I will never let my horses eat purina or nutrena again thats all I will say about that. This is a awesome fat supp too I have used....http://www.prognutrition.com/envisionclassic.html I recently switched to progressive mineral too and they LOVE it! I have a regular mineral and salt block they eat on a little, the redmonds my horses wont even look at it and now the have the progressive loose mineral and block out and they eat on it much more than the others! I have left them all out there to monitor and they have not touched the others since putting the progressive mineral out. Wonderful products, best on the market IMO http://www.prognutrition.com/grassmineral.html I just went on purina and found average feeding for a breeding stallion and a heavy worked horse: Strategy 8.25-16 pounds a day! Omolene 7.5-16 pounds a day so these feeds you are getting 4-6 days of feeding out of a bag, because if you don't feed the noted values you might as well not feed it at all... Progressive grass 3pound MAX for breeding stallion and heavy worked horses so 50# bag lasts 16 days Like I said everyone has their opinions but I feel progressive offers the best product on the market and my horses all love it : ) Thanks for posting the link so the Purina haters can see the same by products as the primary ingredients (GASP!!) Hmm same products as Purina and between the progressive grass supplement and the oats it says to feed with it I will b feeding 12 to 17lbs of feed a day. same thing u just grumbled about Purina with the amounts of the feed you have to feed. On another note you can feed Ultium and Strategy Edge as a top dress meaning 1 pound a day on top of your sweet mix and get wonderful results in putting on weight and their coats are just amazing. You do not have to feed the recommended amt to see results out of products you have to feed to your region and your horse needs. I have found that not one formula works for every horse. That is how we use Ultium on our racehorses, we feed a dry COB mix that also has alfalfa pellets from our local mill and top dress 2lbs a day of Ultium. Very cost effective, our horses look great, and we have almost eliminated ulcer issues.
Here are pics of a colt we just sold, he was given to us because he was a bit of a bronc to say the least. He did great on this feed program, plenty of energy but not hot or stupid.
I really like that gelding! | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | can_chaiser - 2014-01-31 2:40 PM While I haven't followed this thread I will try and shine some light on to what the OP was wondering about Soy Bean Hulls. I worked for 2 animal nutirition companies in Canada and the last company I worked for actually based their feed's on Soybean Hulls. Soybean Hulls are not a filler, they are actually the outer part of the seed that are milled off. They are low in NSC as the seed and the hull are actually seperated from one another. They are a very stable fibre source for horses. There are two products here in Alberta that main ingredient is Soybean Hulls, Hoffman's Horse Ration and Anchor R's custom feed. The nutritionist who formulated both products was, or still is conducting research on Soy Bean Hulls being a suitable base for a ration for horses recovering from colic surgery, that's how stable the ingredient is. To try and help disban some of the concerns regarding extra ingrediants in feed, ie corn in bags that shouldn't have corn in it, a feed mill is a very complex unit with multiple augers, bins, mixers, bagging chutes etc. While companies flush these between products, ie a dry run of oats, wheat, corn etc, not every nook and crany can be cleaned, that's why the odd time you will see corn or other basic grains mixed in, these flush products might get knocked out of somewhere with the right jolt of the mixer. What the consumer does need to confident in is that the right steps are taken to ensure the safety of their animals. For example, in Canada there is a product called Rumension that is added to Beef calf feed, that will kill a horse if it consumed. Where a feed mill goes and takes the necessary percautions is that the mill is flushed after that product is made, and then a feed for other ruminants is made follow ( IE Dairy feed following), there is a mininmun of 3 feeds and 3 flushed to be made after the Medicated feed prior to horse feed being made to reduce the risk of horse feed coming in contamination of that medication. While I am not 100% sure of the practises in the US, in Canada, the ingredients are not listed on the bag, just the guaranteed analysis. Feed ingredient listing can be requested by the consumer but they are not provided on the bag. I am totally open to answering as manye questions that I can, however it has been 3 years since of left that field. Brandi
You did a great job at describing the way things work. The mill I work for has dedicated bins and chutes for cattle feed vs all natural feed/horse feeds. Same with the trucks we use to deliver bulk. | |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | lisamm - 2014-01-31 7:35 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 3:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are? Totally agree, just fillers and junk...... Purina and Nutrena both are terrible! Plus the recommended amount to feed of those feeds is just plain nuts. When I see people only feeding 1lb of a feed that your suppose to be feeding 10-14lbs you might as well throw your money away. I will stick with my Progressive feed that actually stands behind their products with no national backing....
Just an FYI lisamm, I looked up your feed, which is actually a ration balancer, and the first 2 ingredients listed is Soybean meal and wheat mids, which I believe you said was junk and filler | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1031
  Location: Oklahoma | These feed threads are always interesting to me. I need to learn more!! What would you think if you saw "Ground Limestone" on the tag? I am a little shocked to find this in what I thought was a decent feed. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Quick3 - 2014-01-31 5:49 PM
These feed threads are always interesting to me. I need to learn more!! What would you think if you saw "Ground Limestone" on the tag? I am a little shocked to find this in what I thought was a decent feed.
Source of calcium. | |
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7543
   
| Quick3 - 2014-01-31 6:49 PM
These feed threads are always interesting to me. I need to learn more!! What would you think if you saw "Ground Limestone" on the tag? I am a little shocked to find this in what I thought was a decent feed.
Limestone is a source of calcium. I wouldn't be alarmed to see that kind of addition to an animal's feed. I'm sure a horse encounters much worse while simply grazing. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Quick3 - 2014-01-31 5:49 PM
These feed threads are always interesting to me. I need to learn more!! What would you think if you saw "Ground Limestone" on the tag? I am a little shocked to find this in what I thought was a decent feed.
Ground limestone is used in feeds to equal out the calcium phosphorus levels. With that being said...I would prefer seeing ground limestone used over the teeth and bones of other animals. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1031
  Location: Oklahoma | Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 5:57 PM Quick3 - 2014-01-31 5:49 PM
These feed threads are always interesting to me. I need to learn more!! What would you think if you saw "Ground Limestone" on the tag? I am a little shocked to find this in what I thought was a decent feed.
Ground limestone is used in feeds to equal out the calcium phosphorus levels. With that being said...I would prefer seeing ground limestone used over the teeth and bones of other animals.
Well.....I just learned something!  I have never seen it on a tag before. | |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
      Location: sunny california | livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-31 3:13 PM lisamm - 2014-01-31 7:35 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 3:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are? Totally agree, just fillers and junk...... Purina and Nutrena both are terrible! Plus the recommended amount to feed of those feeds is just plain nuts. When I see people only feeding 1lb of a feed that your suppose to be feeding 10-14lbs you might as well throw your money away. I will stick with my Progressive feed that actually stands behind their products with no national backing.... Just an FYI lisamm, I looked up your feed, which is actually a ration balancer, and the first 2 ingredients listed is Soybean meal and wheat mids, which I believe you said was junk and filler
soybean meal is not filler.. soybean hulls is filler | |
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Posts: 4755
       Location: Windy Wyoming | kwanatha - 2014-01-31 4:47 PM
livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-31 3:13 PM lisamm - 2014-01-31 7:35 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-01-30 3:00 PM Nevertooold - 2014-01-31 3:22 PM I would say that Purina finally stepped up to the plate...they haven't before. They have always listed ingredients on their bags but it was with grain by products etc instead of listing what actual grains were in their feed. I've been a hater and will continue to be. Purina sucks..LOL I don't like it either. Wheat Middings and Soy Hulls. I wonder, does the OP know what those are? Totally agree, just fillers and junk...... Purina and Nutrena both are terrible! Plus the recommended amount to feed of those feeds is just plain nuts. When I see people only feeding 1lb of a feed that your suppose to be feeding 10-14lbs you might as well throw your money away. I will stick with my Progressive feed that actually stands behind their products with no national backing.... Just an FYI lisamm, I looked up your feed, which is actually a ration balancer, and the first 2 ingredients listed is Soybean meal and wheat mids, which I believe you said was junk and filler
soybean meal is not filler.. soybean hulls is filler
Thank you, yes purina uses hulls not meal and use to have alot of "by product" in their feed.... You can't even compare progressive to purina I'm sorry | |
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Posts: 4755
       Location: Windy Wyoming | Progressive ingredients(yes they list them on their website for you to see, purina doesn't!)
Soybean Meal, Wheat Middlings, Distillers Dried Grains, Alfalfa Meal, Flaxseed ,Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Oxide, Salt, Vegetable Oil, Yeast Culture, Copper Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, L-Threonine, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Copper Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Selenium Yeast, Sodium Selenite, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Choline Chloride, d-Biotin, Ascorbic Acid, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Dried Schizosaccharomyces pombe Fermentation Product, Maltodextrin and Natural Flavors.
Omolene 300 ingredients:
whole oats, cracked corn, dehulled soybean meal, cane molasses, wheat middlings, coarse barley, soybean oil, stabilized rice bran, calcium carbonate, dried whey, vegetable oil, ground corn, flaxseed, salt, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, citric acid, L-lysine, magnesium oxide, choline chloride, propionic acid (a preservative), vitamin E supplement, sorbitan monostearate, L threonine, calcium pantothenate, iron oxide, xanthan gum, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, copper sulfate, tocopherols, zinc oxide, niacin supplement, calcium iodate, vitamin A supplement, cobalt carbonate, ferrous carbonate, vitamin D3 supplement, manganous oxide, DL-methionine, sodium selenite
Strategy GX ingredients
Wheat middlings, ground soybean hulls, cane molasses, ground corn, wheat flour, dehydrated alfalfa meal, soybean oil, dehulled soybean meal, clacium carbonate, salt, lignin sulfonate, L-lysine, calcium propionate, DL-methionine, vitamin E supplement, iron oxide, anise flavor, fenugreek flavor, choline chloride, copper sulfate, zinc oxide, vitamin B-12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, calcium iodate, magnesium oxide, cobalt carbonate, vitamin D3 supplement, ferrous carbonate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite.
Just one look at these will tell you your answers you are looking for......
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | can_chaiser - 2014-01-31 2:40 PM While I haven't followed this thread I will try and shine some light on to what the OP was wondering about Soy Bean Hulls. I worked for 2 animal nutirition companies in Canada and the last company I worked for actually based their feed's on Soybean Hulls. Soybean Hulls are not a filler, they are actually the outer part of the seed that are milled off. They are low in NSC as the seed and the hull are actually seperated from one another. They are a very stable fibre source for horses. There are two products here in Alberta that main ingredient is Soybean Hulls, Hoffman's Horse Ration and Anchor R's custom feed. The nutritionist who formulated both products was, or still is conducting research on Soy Bean Hulls being a suitable base for a ration for horses recovering from colic surgery, that's how stable the ingredient is. To try and help disban some of the concerns regarding extra ingrediants in feed, ie corn in bags that shouldn't have corn in it, a feed mill is a very complex unit with multiple augers, bins, mixers, bagging chutes etc. While companies flush these between products, ie a dry run of oats, wheat, corn etc, not every nook and crany can be cleaned, that's why the odd time you will see corn or other basic grains mixed in, these flush products might get knocked out of somewhere with the right jolt of the mixer. What the consumer does need to confident in is that the right steps are taken to ensure the safety of their animals. For example, in Canada there is a product called Rumension that is added to Beef calf feed, that will kill a horse if it consumed. Where a feed mill goes and takes the necessary percautions is that the mill is flushed after that product is made, and then a feed for other ruminants is made follow ( IE Dairy feed following), there is a mininmun of 3 feeds and 3 flushed to be made after the Medicated feed prior to horse feed being made to reduce the risk of horse feed coming in contamination of that medication. While I am not 100% sure of the practises in the US, in Canada, the ingredients are not listed on the bag, just the guaranteed analysis. Feed ingredient listing can be requested by the consumer but they are not provided on the bag. I am totally open to answering as manye questions that I can, however it has been 3 years since of left that field. Brandi
Bumping this up with her explanation of soybean hulls. Anyone? I'm honestly curious. | |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
     Location: Wonderful Wyoming | The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists. | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:13 PM The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists.
That's where it all gets super duper hard. Sometimes you have to keep your questions off the board, do your own research, see what's available in your area and know your animals. | |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
     Location: Wonderful Wyoming | CYA Ranch - 2014-01-31 8:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:13 PM The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists. That's where it all gets super duper hard. Sometimes you have to keep your questions off the board, do your own research, see what's available in your area and know your animals.
True. If people would actually find the truth and facts about what they repeat on here it would help. I can't say I know a darn thing about wheat hulls or whatever so I don't have an opinion either way. I know google can be a great thing, but it is something you should probably look at several sites. Just because you read it on the internet does not make it a fact.
I have few feeds here in WY. Pretty much Nutrena and Purina and Total Equine just because I have a friend that sells it. I feed all 3 to a different horse. I don't think you can have several horses and say, "I will feed this and just this." Like you said, you must know your horse and what works for them. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1150
    Location: LaCygne, KS | I come to this thread once or twice a day for a 'WTH did they just say moment'. I notice there are a few voices of reason that comment on this and a few, IMO, that are "sure out there a ways". First of all, Purina, Nutrena and a number of other feed companies have multiple nutritionists on staff with PhD's behind their names. I am aquainted with seveal of these-they are smart, honest, have a equine background and sat through a lot more chemistry classes, etc in college than I cared to. I trust them. If we study the evolution of the horse, we find they did not evolve in a corn (or oat) field or a stall with 16 winter blankets. Therefore, they can safely handle a lot more than some of us think. There are a number of by products of the food (both animal and human) industry and milling industry that can be successfully used in livestock feeds. Most of these have been researched and used for decades. I will comment on three by products that have been mentioned: soy bean hulls (SBH), DDG (distillers dried grain) and wheat midds. All are high in digestible fiber and protien. SBH pellets are 10% crude protien (% CP), fiber 36%. Wheat midds-7.5% fiber, 16.5 % CP. DDG-10% fat, 8% fiber, 25% CP. All three of these byproducts can and are safely and successfully use as part of livestock rations, including horse feed. An argument can be made that these are safer for horses than corn, oats, barley, etc. I leave the formulation of these rations to the experts (in my case-Purina). This gives me time to worry about such important things as: are the hay feeders full and the water open this winter?
Edited by Prehistoric 2014-02-01 6:51 AM
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
      Location: sunny california | Prehistoric - 2014-02-01 4:44 AM I come to this thread once or twice a day for a 'WTH did they just say moment'. I notice there are a few voices of reason that comment on this and a few, IMO, that are "sure out there a ways".
First of all, Purina, Nutrena and a number of other feed companies have multiple nutritionists on staff with PhD's behind their names. I am aquainted with seveal of these-they are smart, honest, have a equine background and sat through a lot more chemistry classes, etc in college than I cared to. I trust them.
If we study the evolution of the horse, we find they did not evolve in a corn (or oat) field or a stall with 16 winter blankets. Therefore, they can safely handle a lot more than some of us think.
There are a number of by products of the food (both animal and human) industry and milling industry that can be successfully used in livestock feeds. Most of these have been researched and used for decades.
I will comment on three by products that have been mentioned: soy bean hulls (SBH), DDG (distillers dried grain) and wheat midds. All are high in digestible fiber and protien. SBH pellets are 10% crude protien (% CP), fiber 36%. Wheat midds-7.5% fiber, 16.5 % CP. DDG-10% fat, 8% fiber, 25% CP.
All three of these byproducts can and are safely and successfully use as part of livestock rations, including horse feed. An argument can be made that these are safer for horses than corn, oats, barley, etc. I leave the formulation of these rations to the experts (in my case-Purina). This gives me time to worry about such important things as: are the hay feeders full and the water open this winter?
i have no problem with the fillers. many of your low NSC feeds have soybean hulls. I feed some myself. It jsut kills me to pay top dollar for them. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 614
 
| I feed Purina Ultium and like somebody else I use it as a top dress. We top dress it over soaked alfalfa oat cubes. My hard keeper gets the most which is 3 lbs. a day of Ultium. I like that they stay sane. I was feeding southern states but I keep getting bad bags of feed which I think was the store letting it go bad but also it had junk and clumps. then switched to triple crown and didn't like it either. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1150
    Location: LaCygne, KS | I guess I view these by products as viable alternatives instead of "fillers". Yes, all feed prices a too high, IMO. On a wholesale level, soy hull pellets are about equal to the on farm corn price. SBH (soy hulls) are $155/ton (5 ton minimum in bulk) at the plant at Emporia, KS. That makes SBH and corn about 8 cents/pound. (Corn about $4.60 per bushel) I have fed 2-3 pounds of Soy hull pellets to mature horses during the winter aong with free choice grass hay However, I prefer DDG or 1-2 pounds of soybean meal to increase the protien level in their daily ration. This winter, 1 1/2 pounds of soybean meal is the cheapest way in this part of the world. In the past, I have used a local mill mix of corn, oats, soy meal, 10% DDG. mineral, etc. However, all the local mills quit mixing horse rations a few years ago due to the liability of afla toxin in grain. Also,I had quite a bit of seperation of product coming out of the bulk bin.
I have gone back to Strategy for young horses and mares with foals.
Edited by Prehistoric 2014-02-01 8:42 AM
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
       Location: Displaced Iowegian | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:24 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-01-31 8:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:13 PM The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists. That's where it all gets super duper hard. Sometimes you have to keep your questions off the board, do your own research, see what's available in your area and know your animals. True. If people would actually find the truth and facts about what they repeat on here it would help. I can't say I know a darn thing about wheat hulls or whatever so I don't have an opinion either way. I know google can be a great thing, but it is something you should probably look at several sites. Just because you read it on the internet does not make it a fact.
I have few feeds here in WY. Pretty much Nutrena and Purina and Total Equine just because I have a friend that sells it. I feed all 3 to a different horse. I don't think you can have several horses and say, "I will feed this and just this." Like you said, you must know your horse and what works for them.     I just wish everyone of the "experts" here would, at the very least, have toured a feed milling plant before making blanket statements about the quality and ingredients of ANY feed. I worked at GPC (Kent Feeds) for 10 years in the research labs.........enough said.......
Edited by NJJ 2014-02-01 8:36 AM
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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
    Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:13 PM
The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists.
This made me laugh out loud. So, so, so true! I actually AM a livestock nutritionist, and my husband used to be--and we both have college degrees for it. I almost NEVER comment on nutrition threads because I can't stand to beat a dead horse...I'll stick to the people that pay for my advice. And I'll be the first to admit, my least favorite customers are horse owners.
And get this...I know how to formulate my own feed, and I still feed PURINA, have for years. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Prehistoric - 2014-02-01 8:31 AM I guess I view these by products as viable alternatives instead of "fillers". Yes, all feed prices a too high, IMO.
On a wholesale level, soy hull pellets are about equal to the on farm corn price. SBH (soy hulls) are $155/ton (5 ton minimum in bulk) at the plant at Emporia, KS. That makes SBH and corn about 8 cents/pound. (Corn about $4.60 per bushel)
I have fed 2-3 pounds of Soy hull pellets to mature horses during the winter aong with free choice grass hay However, I prefer DDG or 1-2 pounds of soybean meal to increase the protien level in their daily ration. This winter, 1 1/2 pounds of soybean meal is the cheapest way in this part of the world.
In the past, I have used a local mill mix of corn, oats, soy meal, 10% DDG. mineral, etc. However, all the local mills quit mixing horse rations a few years ago due to the liability of afla toxin in grain. Also,I had quite a bit of seperation of product coming out of the bulk bin. I have gone back to Strategy for young horses and mares with foals.
My piddling education leads me to feel the same way. "Fillers" in horse feed are highly digestible fiber, a good thing for horsey guts since they are made to eat diets that are mostly fiber. These things give you a similar result to high quality hay and grass if you can get the nutrients added back in somehow, which is where a good vit/mineral package and free choice minerals comes in.
Btw, I would say my hay is pretty good hay, but when I bought a horse from Prehistoric, he turned his nose up at my stuff for a good 2 weeks. They sent a couple of bales with him and he would pick the brome and prairie grass out when I tried to mix it with my coastal. LOL | |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
    Location: Dubach, LA | Have you ever thought that what may be fillers for us is good for a horse? Surely God intended for the entire plant to serve a purpose. Horses are not humans. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1150
    Location: LaCygne, KS | I've often wondered if a horses reluctance to dive into a different ration (hay or grain) isn't part of their natural defense to changing their diet slowly to avoid gut problems. "Mom, it says in the fine print on the bag to make ration changes slowly. Besides this new crap that you are trying out on me tastes strange", said the horse.
added: good points CanCan, NJJ , RockinGR and 3-4-Luck!
Edited by Prehistoric 2014-02-01 10:07 AM
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Prehistoric - 2014-02-01 10:01 AM I've often wondered if a horses reluctance to dive into a different ration (hay or grain) isn't part of their natural defense to changing their diet slowly to avoid gut problems. "Mom, it says in the fine print on the bag to make ration changes slowly. Besides this new crap that you are trying out on me tastes strange", said the horse.
added: good points CanCan, NJJ , RockinGR and 3-4-Luck!
I kind of doubt he was that polite in his thoughts about me at that point. You remember he jumped the fence twice before we found a good compromise in our ideas of suitable housing arrangements. Which meant I put him in with my other 2 and hoped nobody got hurt. LOL | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | NJJ - 2014-02-01 8:35 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:24 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-01-31 8:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:13 PM The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists. That's where it all gets super duper hard. Sometimes you have to keep your questions off the board, do your own research, see what's available in your area and know your animals. True. If people would actually find the truth and facts about what they repeat on here it would help. I can't say I know a darn thing about wheat hulls or whatever so I don't have an opinion either way. I know google can be a great thing, but it is something you should probably look at several sites. Just because you read it on the internet does not make it a fact.
I have few feeds here in WY. Pretty much Nutrena and Purina and Total Equine just because I have a friend that sells it. I feed all 3 to a different horse. I don't think you can have several horses and say, "I will feed this and just this." Like you said, you must know your horse and what works for them.     I just wish everyone of the "experts" here would, at the very least, have toured a feed milling plant before making blanket statements about the quality and ingredients of ANY feed. I worked at GPC (Kent Feeds) for 10 years in the research labs.........enough said.......
I feed some of my horses Purina, one Nutrena and the rest plain oats. We put up our own alfalfa and prairie hay. They get all the prairie they want to eat. In the summer I'm lucky enough to have great pasture. I would like to hear one person tell me my horses on Purina or Nutrena don't look good. I double dog dare you. Maybe living in the Dakotas we get those feeds using better ingredients than other parts of the country. Don't have a clue on that but I'm smart enough to know if a feed isn't working I'll change to something else. | |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
       Location: Opelousas, LA | kwanatha - 2014-02-01 6:54 AM Prehistoric - 2014-02-01 4:44 AM I come to this thread once or twice a day for a 'WTH did they just say moment'. I notice there are a few voices of reason that comment on this and a few, IMO, that are "sure out there a ways".
First of all, Purina, Nutrena and a number of other feed companies have multiple nutritionists on staff with PhD's behind their names. I am aquainted with seveal of these-they are smart, honest, have a equine background and sat through a lot more chemistry classes, etc in college than I cared to. I trust them.
If we study the evolution of the horse, we find they did not evolve in a corn (or oat) field or a stall with 16 winter blankets. Therefore, they can safely handle a lot more than some of us think.
There are a number of by products of the food (both animal and human) industry and milling industry that can be successfully used in livestock feeds. Most of these have been researched and used for decades.
I will comment on three by products that have been mentioned: soy bean hulls (SBH), DDG (distillers dried grain) and wheat midds. All are high in digestible fiber and protien. SBH pellets are 10% crude protien (% CP), fiber 36%. Wheat midds-7.5% fiber, 16.5 % CP. DDG-10% fat, 8% fiber, 25% CP.
All three of these byproducts can and are safely and successfully use as part of livestock rations, including horse feed. An argument can be made that these are safer for horses than corn, oats, barley, etc. I leave the formulation of these rations to the experts (in my case-Purina). This gives me time to worry about such important things as: are the hay feeders full and the water open this winter? i have no problem with the fillers. many of your low NSC feeds have soybean hulls. I feed some myself. It jsut kills me to pay top dollar for them.
Part of what you are paying for is the increase in tires, diesel, trucks, truck maintenance, etc. The raw product has to be harvested, hauled to be proccessed, hauled to the feed company then hauled to the feed store. I honestly don't belive the farmers, feed company, or feed stores profit margin has gone up all that much in the last 10 years. | |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
       Location: Opelousas, LA | CYA Ranch - 2014-02-01 10:13 AM NJJ - 2014-02-01 8:35 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:24 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-01-31 8:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:13 PM The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists. That's where it all gets super duper hard. Sometimes you have to keep your questions off the board, do your own research, see what's available in your area and know your animals. True. If people would actually find the truth and facts about what they repeat on here it would help. I can't say I know a darn thing about wheat hulls or whatever so I don't have an opinion either way. I know google can be a great thing, but it is something you should probably look at several sites. Just because you read it on the internet does not make it a fact.
I have few feeds here in WY. Pretty much Nutrena and Purina and Total Equine just because I have a friend that sells it. I feed all 3 to a different horse. I don't think you can have several horses and say, "I will feed this and just this." Like you said, you must know your horse and what works for them.     I just wish everyone of the "experts" here would, at the very least, have toured a feed milling plant before making blanket statements about the quality and ingredients of ANY feed. I worked at GPC (Kent Feeds) for 10 years in the research labs.........enough said....... I feed some of my horses Purina, one Nutrena and the rest plain oats. We put up our own alfalfa and prairie hay. They get all the prairie they want to eat. In the summer I'm lucky enough to have great pasture. I would like to hear one person tell me my horses on Purina or Nutrena don't look good. I double dog dare you. Maybe living in the Dakotas we get those feeds using better ingredients than other parts of the country. Don't have a clue on that but I'm smart enough to know if a feed isn't working I'll change to something else.
Lol, I haven't heard anyone say that in years. We have a horse named that. | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | Barnmom - 2014-02-01 10:24 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-02-01 10:13 AM NJJ - 2014-02-01 8:35 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:24 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-01-31 8:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:13 PM The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists. That's where it all gets super duper hard. Sometimes you have to keep your questions off the board, do your own research, see what's available in your area and know your animals. True. If people would actually find the truth and facts about what they repeat on here it would help. I can't say I know a darn thing about wheat hulls or whatever so I don't have an opinion either way. I know google can be a great thing, but it is something you should probably look at several sites. Just because you read it on the internet does not make it a fact.
I have few feeds here in WY. Pretty much Nutrena and Purina and Total Equine just because I have a friend that sells it. I feed all 3 to a different horse. I don't think you can have several horses and say, "I will feed this and just this." Like you said, you must know your horse and what works for them.     I just wish everyone of the "experts" here would, at the very least, have toured a feed milling plant before making blanket statements about the quality and ingredients of ANY feed. I worked at GPC (Kent Feeds) for 10 years in the research labs.........enough said....... I feed some of my horses Purina, one Nutrena and the rest plain oats. We put up our own alfalfa and prairie hay. They get all the prairie they want to eat. In the summer I'm lucky enough to have great pasture. I would like to hear one person tell me my horses on Purina or Nutrena don't look good. I double dog dare you. Maybe living in the Dakotas we get those feeds using better ingredients than other parts of the country. Don't have a clue on that but I'm smart enough to know if a feed isn't working I'll change to something else. Lol, I haven't heard anyone say that in years. We have a horse named that.
LOL Maybe I'm giving my age away. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1150
    Location: LaCygne, KS | Three 4 Luck - 2014-02-01 10:11 AM Prehistoric - 2014-02-01 10:01 AM I've often wondered if a horses reluctance to dive into a different ration (hay or grain) isn't part of their natural defense to changing their diet slowly to avoid gut problems. "Mom, it says in the fine print on the bag to make ration changes slowly. Besides this new crap that you are trying out on me tastes strange", said the horse.
added: good points CanCan, NJJ , RockinGR and 3-4-Luck! I kind of doubt he was that polite in his thoughts about me at that point. You remember he jumped the fence twice before we found a good compromise in our ideas of suitable housing arrangements. Which meant I put him in with my other 2 and hoped nobody got hurt. LOL Truck was a tall, atheletic young man. He probably wasn't intimidated with your L A (lower Arkansas) fences. lol
Edited by Prehistoric 2014-02-01 10:32 AM
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Barnmom - 2014-02-01 10:21 AM kwanatha - 2014-02-01 6:54 AM Prehistoric - 2014-02-01 4:44 AM I come to this thread once or twice a day for a 'WTH did they just say moment'. I notice there are a few voices of reason that comment on this and a few, IMO, that are "sure out there a ways".
First of all, Purina, Nutrena and a number of other feed companies have multiple nutritionists on staff with PhD's behind their names. I am aquainted with seveal of these-they are smart, honest, have a equine background and sat through a lot more chemistry classes, etc in college than I cared to. I trust them.
If we study the evolution of the horse, we find they did not evolve in a corn (or oat) field or a stall with 16 winter blankets. Therefore, they can safely handle a lot more than some of us think.
There are a number of by products of the food (both animal and human) industry and milling industry that can be successfully used in livestock feeds. Most of these have been researched and used for decades.
I will comment on three by products that have been mentioned: soy bean hulls (SBH), DDG (distillers dried grain) and wheat midds. All are high in digestible fiber and protien. SBH pellets are 10% crude protien (% CP), fiber 36%. Wheat midds-7.5% fiber, 16.5 % CP. DDG-10% fat, 8% fiber, 25% CP.
All three of these byproducts can and are safely and successfully use as part of livestock rations, including horse feed. An argument can be made that these are safer for horses than corn, oats, barley, etc. I leave the formulation of these rations to the experts (in my case-Purina). This gives me time to worry about such important things as: are the hay feeders full and the water open this winter? i have no problem with the fillers. many of your low NSC feeds have soybean hulls. I feed some myself. It jsut kills me to pay top dollar for them. Part of what you are paying for is the increase in tires, diesel, trucks, truck maintenance, etc. The raw product has to be harvested, hauled to be proccessed, hauled to the feed company then hauled to the feed store. I honestly don't belive the farmers, feed company, or feed stores profit margin has gone up all that much in the last 10 years.
Farmers don't pass on their costs, we are at the mercy of the markets. This year we will likely not have much if any profit because market prices for commodities are WAY down, while our inputs are still up. Hopefully the 2015 crop will align a little better. The setting of prices to cover costs starts once commodities get to the processing plant, as farmers are footing the bill to that point. It sucks when it costs more to produce than you can sell for, but that's where the safety net of the farm bill is supposed to kick in. We do our best to plant crops we can make money on, but once it's in the ground you're stuck. And not planting is not an option because there is no way to pay for land and equipment and labor you need next year if you don't have a crop this year. | |
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