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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Has anyone dealt with this? What are the causes and can it be fixed? Does it cost a horse their speed? |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
  
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Is it more alot of knee action or actual climbing? Any video? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | total performance - 2014-01-31 12:23 PM
Is it more alot of knee action or actual climbing? Any video?
^^this
Sounds like just a lot of knee action. Unless he is fighting you on his face, holding him back etc.? |
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Regular
Posts: 83
| If I am reading this correctly, your horse is bringing his legs to far upward motion instead flat and forward?...Try putting aluminum shoes versus steel, sometimes the weight of shoes will cause a horse to lift his feet up.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| I don't have a video I can upload to share. It's like she high steps in the front end and doesn't stretch out her front legs? |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Some horses just have a lot of knee action and it does waste precious time. I talked once to Deb Myers and she said that was one of the things they loved about FG. He sired horses that had the reach and didn't waste time lifting their leg up before stretching them out. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| They call them climbers in the racing industry, but I'm just wondering if it is something to steer clear of? Will they not clock on the barrels? And will they pass it along onto their offspring? |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | burnamillion - 2014-01-31 12:45 PM They call them climbers in the racing industry, but I'm just wondering if it is something to steer clear of? Will they not clock on the barrels? And will they pass it along onto their offspring?
No they will not clock as well and yes they will pass that on. That is why hunter under saddle people stick to certain sires that produce that flat kneed trot. It is a reproduced movement. Just like the gaited breeds will breed for horses that step the highest. |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | burnamillion - 2014-01-31 1:45 PM They call them climbers in the racing industry, but I'm just wondering if it is something to steer clear of? Will they not clock on the barrels? And will they pass it along onto their offspring?
The closer to the ground the quicker they are. Sounds like she has alot of knee action. Do you have steel shoes on her? If so, as someone else said try aluminums. |
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 Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | I remember quite a few years back when the DTFs first started getting popular, people complained about them being climbers.
Edited by TheOldGrayMare 2014-01-31 2:06 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| She is a dash ta fame! Just curious if I should bypass on the purchase or what everyone's opinions were on a "climber" |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | If he has extra speed to burn, he may be fine. The DTF should be able to run. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 723
Location: South TEXAS | TheOldGrayMare - 2014-01-31 2:05 PM
I remember quite a few years back when the DTFs first started getting popular, people complained about them being climbers.
i have a DTF granddaughter that is somewhat of a climber but she doesn't seem to loose much time. she's VERY quick so you never notice it except all her pics show it
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | This could have many different reasons, hard to say without seeing it. Some bleeders climb when coming out fo a turn... |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24953
Location: WYOMING | TheOldGrayMare - 2014-01-31 3:05 PM I remember quite a few years back when the DTFs first started getting popular, people complained about them being climbers.
LOL I hate the way most Ive seen travel... but Id take anyone of them! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| She clocked about a second off last year her furturity year...I don't know if it's due to the climbing but her runs were pretty nice just wasn't really clocking |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| TheOldGrayMare - 2014-01-31 12:05 PM
I remember quite a few years back when the DTFs first started getting popular, people complained about them being climbers.
The really fast ones don't climb. That's why they outrun everyone. The ones that climb get outrun. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| burnamillion - 2014-01-31 1:25 PM
She clocked about a second off last year her furturity year...I don't know if it's due to the climbing but her runs were pretty nice just wasn't really clocking
Anytime you are going up instead of forward you are loosing time. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Will she pass this trait on to her babies? |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | burnamillion - 2014-01-31 3:40 PM Will she pass this trait on to her babies?
Probably so |
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 Veteran
Posts: 209
| I've never heard this term before and find it interesting. Does anyone have a video of a climber? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | A very close friend of mine had a gelding that was the worst climber I have ever seen. He was fast, fast, fast but for years just out of the big money due to this. She was always 'just' there. She did have one awesome year and was runner up of Australia but I firmly believe if he didn't climb she could have won Australian titles left and right.
My hubby is a fantastic shoer and he shod this horse once; (early in our relationship as a favour, he didn't know the horse at the time.) I was blown away by the questions he was asking my friend and then he explained to her how the shape of his foot was causing a, b and c and that this was increasing his tendency to climb.
My friend was very pig headed and did not listen to the advice given and only had hubby shoe him once unfortunately because I think he could have reduced this tendency.
I believe that it is an inherited trait but in some instances can be managed if it is caused by human error.
I would love to see a video to compare. :-) |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | TheOldGrayMare - 2014-01-31 2:05 PM I remember quite a few years back when the DTFs first started getting popular, people complained about them being climbers.
That's exactly what I thought about when I read this thread. The DTFs around here look like Walking horses they have so much roll at the knee and are "climbing the wall". |
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 I Want a "MAN"
Posts: 3610
Location: MD | Can someone post a video please? |
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 I Am Not Worthy
Posts: 3151
Location: Wishing on a sunny island.... | I had one that climbed coming out of his 2nd and 3rd barrel but it turned out he had a paralyzed flapper. I sold him and she had the surgery and now he doesn't do it anymore. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | If we are simply talking about a horse who has a lot of knee in their natural stride, no there isn't a ton that you can do about it. I have a couple now that are nice horses, top of the 2D at BIG show sorts of horses. If they moved more efficiently, they'd be winning. I do lots of cavaletti work with these horses, really getting them reaching all the way through their topline.
Here is a video of the worst one I have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mJeuAml4nA
We've done as much as we can to encourage a longer stride, through training and shoeing, but at the end of the day, you can't change the way one is made. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 371
| WrapSnap - 2014-01-31 9:24 PM
If we are simply talking about a horse who has a lot of knee in their natural stride, no there isn't a ton that you can do about it. I have a couple now that are nice horses, top of the 2D at BIG show sorts of horses. If they moved more efficiently, they'd be winning. I do lots of cavaletti work with these horses, really getting them reaching all the way through their topline.
Here is a video of the worst one I have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mJeuAml4nA
We've done as much as we can to encourage a longer stride, through training and shoeing, but at the end of the day, you can't change the way one is made.
off topic question but is this horse flagging its tail due to pain, from being kicked, or horses general attitude/ focus trying hard? |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4553
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Most horses that "climb" will have nearly straight shoulders as in north to south. The shoulder is limited to reaching out so the only way the knee can travel is up and down. When the shoulder has more slant as in east to west the horse has more reach which allows the knee to reach out which gives you more speed. This is not to be confused with the horse gathering around the barrel and lauching off the barrel that is not climbing . I refer to climbers as jack hammers cause when they run is like being on a pogo stick you only go up down and not forward. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | abdittmer1154 - 2014-01-31 10:24 PM
WrapSnap - 2014-01-31 9:24 PM
If we are simply talking about a horse who has a lot of knee in their natural stride, no there isn't a ton that you can do about it. I have a couple now that are nice horses, top of the 2D at BIG show sorts of horses. If they moved more efficiently, they'd be winning. I do lots of cavaletti work with these horses, really getting them reaching all the way through their topline.
Here is a video of the worst one I have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mJeuAml4nA
We've done as much as we can to encourage a longer stride, through training and shoeing, but at the end of the day, you can't change the way one is made.
off topic question but is this horse flagging its tail due to pain, from being kicked, or horses general attitude/ focus trying hard?
He's a super sensitive/reactive sort who has always flagged his tail. I'd like to say that it's a combination of irritation at being given cues and his natural intensity. If it's caused by pain, as I once believed, no vet on the East Coast has found the cause of that pain. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 859
| Horses that need their knees injected quite often begin to climb. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | cow pie - 2014-01-31 10:31 PM Most horses that "climb" will have nearly straight shoulders as in north to south. The shoulder is limited to reaching out so the only way the knee can travel is up and down. When the shoulder has more slant as in east to west the horse has more reach which allows the knee to reach out which gives you more speed. This is not to be confused with the horse gathering around the barrel and lauching off the barrel that is not climbing . I refer to climbers as jack hammers cause when they run is like being on a pogo stick you only go up down and not forward.
I agree 100%........it is usually a straight shoulder that keeps the horse from moving more freely from the shoulder so the knees have a lot of work to do. |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10794
Location: Kansas | That's why you look for horses with low knees and hocks. Perfect triangle from the withers to the point of the shoulder to the elbow. All about conformation.
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| I have dealt with a climber before. It takes a lot of time to try and reprogram then and even after all that they still will always have a little climb to them and do not clock. A friend of mine Had a dtf climber too, wicked fast when flat footed but wasted too much time. Even with different shoeing it didnt help. My best advice is to definitely pass on the horse. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | we had a climber. she made an awesome youth horse. her turns are awesome but I believe her knee action slowed her down enough to where she was a nice top of the 3D horse. Worked out for her because she's irreplaceable as a kid's horse! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Take them out in the pasture and just lope big... Not run. It will teach them how to move at a extended gait and flatten. |
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Tell It Like It Is
Posts: 22025
Location: Wyoming | Sore heels, navicular bursitis, sore suspensories can cause a horse to climb. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 550
| I have one who is a climber. He feels and looks like he is flying, but doesn't clock. He is fun to run, though, and does great in divisional format races. If he was flat, he would probably be wicked fast. |
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| A tree climber usually have one major or a combination of these faults that affect the movement of the shoulder and the extension of the front legs to take a full stride. Instead it is as if the forearm is hooked to a rubber band and it snaps the leg back so the foot strikes the ground and horse slaps his toe first which ends up giving him sore feet or navicular problems due to detaching his navicular bone from the laminae ...
All of these faults affect how the shoulder functions ... standing under, calf kneed, long cannons and short forearms and the key to put you on alert is .... short straight up pasterns which also comes with a straight shoulder ........ Any of these gives you cause to make a better determination of the horses front end.
Another feature that is mistaken for a climber a lot of times is a horse being too tall to gather quickly away from barrels and uses their power to lunge away from the barrels while they try to gather themselves to speed.
They may have beautiful conformations but their cannons are just too long to allow them to be as agile as they need to be on the tight patterns of barrel racing. Therefore they spend too much time in the air and lose time on the clock ... You rarely see this in horses that are under 16 hands ...
In babies a lot of the bone and skeletal problems are apparent when born. This is the reason I have baby conformation shots of the young horses I sell that come from a stallion and mares that have excellent barrelhorse conformations. I want my new born babies to have long legs with medium upright pasterns, flat knees facing forward with no toe in or toe out, no wind swept problems, knocked knees, crooked legs and a balanced frame from front to rear.
2nd major is they must LOOK ATHLETIC and look the part ... pictures of a foal on their first 2 days can tell you whether you are going to have conformational problems as they mature and start working ..... I want my babies to hit the ground running, bucking and full of vim and vigor with a lot of energy and bright eyes!! .....
All babies are cute and look good at 4-6 months old after getting fat off of mother's milk ... and hide the faults they were born with ....
When looking at these pictures ... keep in mind babies are born with cannon bones that are almost their mature length and the forearm is what does the growing ..... my breeding program is designed for the babies to mature out at 15.0HH to 15.3HH .....
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-02-02 2:22 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Thank you for all the input! So these horse probably won't hold up as long either then? |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | This horse was a climber and no, he didn't clock. He was very sound, though....never had ANYTHING wrong with him and had short cannons. He was also extremely smooth to ride. I thought horses climbed because they wanted to use their rear ends too much. I've only had a few in my lifetime, but all of them were very sound and turned similar to this one.The ones with more speed clocked....the slower ones didn't. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSkT57iSS7I
Edited by dianeguinn 2014-02-02 5:13 PM
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| dianeguinn - 2014-02-02 4:12 PM This horse was a climber and no, he didn't clock. He was very sound, though....never had ANYTHING wrong with him and had short cannons. He was also extremely smooth to ride. I thought horses climbed because they wanted to use their rear ends too much. I've only had a few in my lifetime, but all of them were very sound and turned similar to this one.The ones with more speed clocked....the slower ones didn't. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSkT57iSS7I
I agree. Most DTF climbers are super elevated, it has nothing to do with a natural high knee. Look at the majority or Grand Prix jumpers. It's a very efficient hind end. I find most horses that climb are never encouraged to stretch out. They are over collected and are behind the bit. They are not taught to move forward into contact, so the climb higher and higher. If we are talking about extreme elevation that can be fixed, if we are talking about high knee action; then no it's genetic. If the horse has been climbing for a long long time then you may never get it truly out of them. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a super elevated DTF as a broodmare, you could cross her on a lot because you won't have a horse that pounds the ground. The reason why DTF are so successful is because they have a big driving leg and it makes it very simple for them to move their shoulders. You can also help a climber with a tiedown or bonnet, but sometimes it will just make them even more backed off. Naturally elevated horses are usually sounder than non elevated ones. |
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