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 Expert
Posts: 1392
  
Location: Central Texas | I'm trying to get back in the swing of riding and competing so I decided to join the local saddle club this year and do some playdays.
At the meeting last night there was a big argument about people not being able to use more than one horse in a day.
I'm looking for opinions and how other clubs handle this.
So the questions are...
1. How would you feel about having to ride the same horse in all 5 events in one day (middle of the day) in the summer in Texas?
2 .How would you feel if someone came in with two horses and did half the events on one and half the events on another?
3. Do you think one way is more fair than the other?
Please discuss and give me some input.
Thanks |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| I've rode in gymkhanas for years. You will never get the same opinion twice and drama inhabits those places pretty bad. Just worry about you, have fun and learn. Leave the rest to those with nothing better to worry about.
Good Luck! Personally, I have a great time. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I've never done playdays, so I have no idea. But I'm wondering if the reason that people don't want members using multiple horses is because of year-end points. If so, could you do points on the horse/rider combination? I personally wouldn't care if someone wanted to ride multiple horses, and if my horse was in shape I probably wouldn't mind doing multiple events on one horse. But would like the option of riding multiple horses, simply because I usually have more than one horse that needs hauled. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Our gymkhanas up here one horse one rider for all events.
We have 30 degree Celsius weather which is abnormal for our horses, I always pulled saddle and boots off after each event then sponged them down with cold water.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
| Iv been doing playdays for years and they are great for family fun but there can be a lot of drama involved. Just ignore it and ride. Iv always tried to use more than 1 horse but mostly because a horse will do better at less events. But if a horse is in shape they are fully capable of doing 4-5 events in a day in the middle of summer. Weve just always made sure you cool them off plenty between events and even spray them with water to keep them from getting too hot and ALWAYS have a fan handy and in use when its 100 degrees.  |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | In the association I'm a member of, you can ride a different horse for each event if you want. Points are accumulated for the rider, regardless of horse used. I've had seasons where I rode 3 or 4 different horses. The only horse rule we have is people sharing a horse must be related, you can't bring your buddy and let them ride your horse or they get disqualified.
Riding multiple horses is pretty common, and no one makes a big deal about it.
It's also very common for a person to ride the same horse in all 6 events.
Edited by Gunner11 2014-02-11 9:36 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | Yes, I had forgotten all about the drama that comes along with small playday clubs. I just wanted somewhere close to home to go and get back in the saddle again.
I don't really have a dog in their fight since I currently only have one horse to ride but I had never encountered people that had a problem with others bringing more than one horse to use. I know some of us have much older horses and it would be nice to be able to switch out and give the old horses a break.
This club does points based on the rider not the horse so once again I don't see the problem that some of them are having with those that have multiple horses. You can only earn points one time in each event.
They also don't offer any exhibitions. Period.
The rules just seemed kinda crazy to me. Maybe I've just been out of it for too long. |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Where I am, our local horse show association does points on horse/rider combinations. And they allow a rider to bring as many horses as they want. There's one gal that will bring 4-6 and ride each one in each event - of course, each horse is entered and paid for individually - so her game days can get spendy. I don't see a problem with it, it's just like somebody taking 3 horses to a barrel race.
I can see the stickiness with using different horses to accumulate points on the rider only - it kind of takes away the all-aroundness out of the equation. I have an awesome horse that is the love of my barn - he's 3D at super races, but at our local game days - he can do all five events and WIN in the fastest division (our classes are split by speed/skill as opposed to rider age).
Best of luck! And have fun! |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Where I am, our local horse show association does points on horse/rider combinations. And they allow a rider to bring as many horses as they want. There's one gal that will bring 4-6 and ride each one in each event - of course, each horse is entered and paid for individually - so her game days can get spendy. I don't see a problem with it, it's just like somebody taking 3 horses to a barrel race.
I can see the stickiness with using different horses to accumulate points on the rider only - it kind of takes away the all-aroundness out of the equation. I have an awesome horse that is the love of my barn - he's 3D at super races, but at our local game days - he can do all five events and WIN in the fastest division (our classes are split by speed/skill as opposed to rider age).
Best of luck! And have fun! |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | At all of the shows I go to, it does not matter which horse you are riding. Points go only to the RIDER.
Some shows I go to allow a rider to enter more than once on multiple horses. Some shows don't.
Some shows I go to allow the same horse to compete in the same age division (so more than one person can ride it). Some shows don't. Some shows allow the same horse to enter in different age divisions of the same event, and some shows don't.
I really don't care either way on any of those rules. If one horse is good enough to clean house with multiple riders in multiple events, more power to ya for having a good horse. I just try to do the best that me and my horse can do.
Right now I only have one horse to compete on. So that's who I'll ride! Next year when my young one gets going better, I will try to hit up more of the shows that allow you to enter multiple times on different horses. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | I hate the 1 horse for all events requirement. It seems pointless to me, especially in the heat or on a horse that kids also jr rodeo on. That can make for a long hard week. I think it's a PLAYday, and should be a little looser on that rule.
My friends are in a club and it's a giant hoopla over who rides what, did she ride another horse back in June because she's ahead of me in the points and I should win, bla bla.
The other thing I hate is dropping. Some places, they have 10 playdays or rodeos, but you get to drop 3, so whoever is leading may not be leading by the time they drop. I've heard it's because some kids might have a bad day, but uh, I always thought if you have a bad day, you just don't win. Seems fair to me.
Some of the rules they come up with leave me shaking my head. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 731
Location: WNY | everywhere is different. places I go it points on horse/rider combo. so yes potentially I can run horse a and horse b and win both 1st and 2nd. its the same at a 3d or 4d barrel run. I rarely ever take one horse. theres always another one running around out there that needs to be seasoned. so no, im probably not going to clean house on both horses. but places try to prevent that.. sometimes you get jerks that would do that. my opinion is that its life run the show how it makes most happy and keeps people coming and making the club happy. if attendance goes down your in trouble. me personally it is exhausting trying to keep rules rules rules straight. better to keep it simple and save the headache of 100 people at the reg booth not understanding your points system and rules. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 731
Location: WNY | r_beau - 2014-02-11 11:22 AM
I really don't care either way on any of those rules. If one horse is good enough to clean house with multiple riders in multiple events, more power to ya for having a good horse.
and its their business if little joey and mom and dad want the horse to run 3times in one event=15 times that day and run its dang legs off. lol. let em maybe they'll learn something about a horse.
another place I ran awhile if you didn't show up to the year end banquet you forfeit your award. bc they had one that cleaned house and didn't bother to show up for her buckles. I thought so what let her grow up being stuck up and rude like that. the rest of us lets just have fun. so if your mom was dying you still had to show up... or forfeit your award. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | I think Hi-Point in gymkhana's should always be one horse one rider combo and I do not think it is fair to ask a horse to run 6 or 7 events with a senior rider and a junior rider. I've seen it done here because the mother and daughter shared a horse which I get at a level say running barrels at a race but 12-14 runs in one day to me is a bit much for any horse and taking advantage of a stoic one. |
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | jojammer - 2014-02-11 12:09 PM I hate the 1 horse for all events requirement. It seems pointless to me, especially in the heat or on a horse that kids also jr rodeo on. That can make for a long hard week. I think it's a PLAYday, and should be a little looser on that rule. My friends are in a club and it's a giant hoopla over who rides what, did she ride another horse back in June because she's ahead of me in the points and I should win, bla bla. The other thing I hate is dropping. Some places, they have 10 playdays or rodeos, but you get to drop 3, so whoever is leading may not be leading by the time they drop. I've heard it's because some kids might have a bad day, but uh, I always thought if you have a bad day, you just don't win. Seems fair to me. Some of the rules they come up with leave me shaking my head.
This is what I feel like is happening in this club. I used to ride in this same club many years ago and we didn't have any of these "new" rules back then. It was so much simpler. Pay your entry fees, run whatever you brought wether it was one horse for all events or a different horse for each event, whoever had the most points at the end wins.
They have also adopted the drop two shows method. I think if you went to all of the shows and paid entry to all the shows you should get all the points that you earned.
But I do see that some of ya'll have some of the same rules so I guess it's not as uncommon as I thought. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | Our local club has a horse/rider combo rule. It really stinks if your horse gets hurt towards the end of the season as there is no replacing them. But I get the rule as this is a smaller family club and they are trying to help out that kid that can't afford a horse for each event. That being said I can bring and ride multiple horses so it does work ok. |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | I've gone to little saddle club shows for years and always enjoyed being able to take different horses throughout the year. It has always been a good way to season a colt or have fun with a horse that's not quick enough to compete at the barrel races. There have been a few times that I've taken a "good" horse to just cruise through a pattern because I'd rather win $3.60 at a playday than spend $5 on an exhibition and win nothing back. |
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 Night Watchman
Posts: 5516
Location: Central Montana | That is what I grew up doing. I spend several years bouncing around from horse to horse and many were not ours. My steady horse had navicular and was sound as long as he was kept shod right but we didn't over do it with him. I borrowed several horses from friends of the family who had kids riding in different age groups just to get through a few seasons. There were no rules on how many horses you could ride. We generally did 5-7 individual games per day and then team games for the older age groups. A lot of weekends we did back to back days. Most of the people used the same horse for all games both days. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| jojammer - 2014-02-11 10:09 AM
I hate the 1 horse for all events requirement. It seems pointless to me, especially in the heat or on a horse that kids also jr rodeo on. That can make for a long hard week. I think it's a PLAYday, and should be a little looser on that rule.
My friends are in a club and it's a giant hoopla over who rides what, did she ride another horse back in June because she's ahead of me in the points and I should win, bla bla.
The other thing I hate is dropping. Some places, they have 10 playdays or rodeos, but you get to drop 3, so whoever is leading may not be leading by the time they drop. I've heard it's because some kids might have a bad day, but uh, I always thought if you have a bad day, you just don't win. Seems fair to me.
Some of the rules they come up with leave me shaking my head.
The other thing that the club I am going to ride in this year does that I can't stand is "bumping," which means that if you time up from the speed bracket that you were entered in for more than 4 of the 6 classes, they bump you to the next speed bracket. BUT...they keep your points. So if you were winning at the lower division but would be 4th or whatever in the upper bracket, you cut all those people who actually earned their spot out. I don't really care, myself...I take my 4D mare and clean house at the gymkhanas because a lot of the classes they do at this club are very technical, but it's hard to explain to the kids and makes them frustrated and it's a hard concept for 7-10 year olds to grasp. |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | The club I showed with offered 13 events each show. We did 3 english classes, showmanship, 4 western show classes and 5 speed events. You did not have to ride the same horse all day, points went to the rider. Reality is, that many events most horses can't do them all, let alone do them all well and last through that long of a day. For year end they gave awards in each event and then an overall high point. To be eligible for the high point you had to compete in I belive 3 of the 4 shows and you had to participate in at least 2 show & 2 speed events at each one. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I show and was the VP of a local saddle club and yes a lot of drama and many differing opinions. We do everything horse/rider combo. There are several people who run two horses but they get points per combo so you dont really have double chances to get points for yourself. You could have a fantastic day on one and bomb on the other and maybe get day-end high point. Or you could have mediocre days on both and not win a thing at the end of the show.
We have fairly decent weather in the summer here in MN. We have some 100 degree days but typically many dont show multiple horses just cause it becomes a long day. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 155
| I ride with a gymkhana association. I like it, I get to run multiple events and it is still cheaper than most jackpots. Plus, the arenas are only an hour drive away. Normally the jackpots near here are 2+ hours away from where I board, have a $60 entry fee, and either $100 added or no added money. So I prefer gymkhanas.
For the association, the year end points are accumulated by the rider only. But for the daily high point, riding 2 horses would give you an unfair advantage. So they count for the horse/rider combination.
Running a horse multiple times in one day depends on the horse, I suppose. My horse has no trouble running 7 events in one day rain or shine, but if it was 100+ degree heat I would probably opt out.
I personally would not care if you switched horses halfway through. It does not hurt me, so why should I dwell on it? But if you were riding with the club I ride at, you would not get highpoint unless everyone else got no times in all the events. |
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Location: Mendenhall, Ms | I think I like our association better than most mentioned above. Points are based on rider in the different age divisions. You may run more than 1 horse but the first horse you run that day is your point horse for that class. All horses that you run may recieve a "day award" if they place in the top 5/6. Then there are special awards for rider/horse combos. There is a super team award based on quads, poles, barrels, and arena race. There is also individual classes based on rider/horse for year end awards. These awards only go to the top team. Rider awards go 5 places deep for year end awards. |
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | NinitheNinja - 2014-02-12 11:37 AM I ride with a gymkhana association. I like it, I get to run multiple events and it is still cheaper than most jackpots. Plus, the arenas are only an hour drive away. Normally the jackpots near here are 2+ hours away from where I board, have a $60 entry fee, and either $100 added or no added money. So I prefer gymkhanas. For the association, the year end points are accumulated by the rider only. But for the daily high point, riding 2 horses would give you an unfair advantage. So they count for the horse/rider combination. Running a horse multiple times in one day depends on the horse, I suppose. My horse has no trouble running 7 events in one day rain or shine, but if it was 100+ degree heat I would probably opt out. I personally would not care if you switched horses halfway through. It does not hurt me, so why should I dwell on it? But if you were riding with the club I ride at, you would not get highpoint unless everyone else got no times in all the events.
How? I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it is an advantage. Not arguing just want someone to explain what they think the unfair advantages are. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 731
Location: WNY | GraciousLegacy - 2014-02-12 1:25 PM
How? I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it is an advantage. Not arguing just want someone to explain what they think the unfair advantages are.
Ok so if its pointed on rider only, and you have jane deere running and accumulating points on 3 horses. Even if they are getting even 3rd 4th and 5th place that's 9 points in one class for that rider. While John Doe on his one horse maybe won the class but that only gets him 6 points. Even if he won all day Jane would take high point as long as she kept placing. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| luckyrunner - 2014-02-12 1:26 PM GraciousLegacy - 2014-02-12 1:25 PM How? I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it is an advantage. Not arguing just want someone to explain what they think the unfair advantages are. Ok so if its pointed on rider only, and you have jane deere running and accumulating points on 3 horses. Even if they are getting even 3rd 4th and 5th place that's 9 points in one class for that rider. While John Doe on his one horse maybe won the class but that only gets him 6 points. Even if he won all day Jane would take high point as long as she kept placing.
In our barrel association obviously you can run multiple horses but you can only earn year end points on one horse for any D you fall into, you get the $$ for multiple placings in the same D but only points on the higest place. Same concept - that only 1 horse gets you points so no one person can rack up points in the same D. I run 3 horses and there have been times I would have been able to get points on 3 placings in the same D giving me an advantage over those who just run 1 horse. |
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 Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | lol-I think most of you would die running in the gymkhana associations in California. They have 13 events. Yes, 13. And sometimes they run all 13 for 3 days straight. And yes, I have done it. And none of my horses died or were worse for the wear.
CGA is pretty hard core. I used to run against a girl that made it to the High School Rodeo finals in poles. I can't remember if she won it or not but she was dang close. They run standard barrels there and the good girls are running low 17's...consistently. Poles in the low 20's. It's pretty competitive.
They do speed divisions and not ages. I will tell you, I ran the playdays for my church and we moved them from age to speed and it went over really well. It evened out the competition and it even made the show go faster. I prefer it that way. As information, we averaged about 65 people per playday last year.
Our rule out here is you can run multiple horses for different events. If you want to run more than one horse in each event, you have to designate which one is being ran for points. In California, you can run multiple horses but you can't switch horses out for different events. Works well for them-they have a ton of members (thousands). |
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | luckyrunner - 2014-02-12 1:26 PM GraciousLegacy - 2014-02-12 1:25 PM How? I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it is an advantage. Not arguing just want someone to explain what they think the unfair advantages are. Ok so if its pointed on rider only, and you have jane deere running and accumulating points on 3 horses. Even if they are getting even 3rd 4th and 5th place that's 9 points in one class for that rider. While John Doe on his one horse maybe won the class but that only gets him 6 points. Even if he won all day Jane would take high point as long as she kept placing.
They are wanting to run each class ONE time, not multiple times, but on which ever horse they want.
Example: They run five events. Use horse "A" on events 1, 2, and 3. Use horse "B" on events 4 and 5. They can't earn any extra points. They are only making one run per event just not using the same horse all day.
Edited to add...this club does not allow any exhibitions. So if you own more than one horse or are trying to get one seasoned it is impossible the way they have it set up.
Edited by GraciousLegacy 2014-02-12 2:25 PM
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | GraciousLegacy - 2014-02-12 2:22 PM
luckyrunner - 2014-02-12 1:26 PM GraciousLegacy - 2014-02-12 1:25 PM How? I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it is an advantage. Not arguing just want someone to explain what they think the unfair advantages are. Ok so if its pointed on rider only, and you have jane deere running and accumulating points on 3 horses. Even if they are getting even 3rd 4th and 5th place that's 9 points in one class for that rider. While John Doe on his one horse maybe won the class but that only gets him 6 points. Even if he won all day Jane would take high point as long as she kept placing.
They are wanting to run each class ONE time, not multiple times, but on which ever horse they want.
Example: They run five events. Use horse "A" on events 1, 2, and 3. Use horse "B" on events 4 and 5. They can't earn any extra points. They are only making one run per event just not using the same horse all day.
Edited to add...this club does not allow any exhibitions. So if you own more than one horse or are trying to get one seasoned it is impossible the way they have it set up.
This is how our association works...each rider can ride each event ONCE, but they can ride different horses for each event. So if they have six events, each rider rides six times TOTAL for the day, but can ride up to six different horses--one for each event. I guess some clubs do it to where you can enter yourself more than once in an event if you have more than one horse. Doesn't seem fair to be able to rack up points that way. |
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | sassy&tessa - 2014-02-12 1:50 PM
lol-I think most of you would die running in the gymkhana associations in California. They have 13 events. Yes, 13. And sometimes they run all 13 for 3 days straight. And yes, I have done it. And none of my horses died or were worse for the wear.
CGA is pretty hard core. I used to run against a girl that made it to the High School Rodeo finals in poles. I can't remember if she won it or not but she was dang close. They run standard barrels there and the good girls are running low 17's...consistently. Poles in the low 20's. It's pretty competitive.
They do speed divisions and not ages. I will tell you, I ran the playdays for my church and we moved them from age to speed and it went over really well. It evened out the competition and it even made the show go faster. I prefer it that way. As information, we averaged about 65 people per playday last year.
Our rule out here is you can run multiple horses for different events. If you want to run more than one horse in each event, you have to designate which one is being ran for points. In California, you can run multiple horses but you can't switch horses out for different events. Works well for them-they have a ton of members (thousands).
Curious, how do you divide everyone up by speed? This seems like it would be more fun because some riders know they'll never have a shot at placing because everyone else in their age group is so much faster.
In speed divisions, do you have adults riding against kids? Are they ok with that? |
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Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | Gunner11 - 2014-02-12 2:37 PM sassy&tessa - 2014-02-12 1:50 PM lol-I think most of you would die running in the gymkhana associations in California. They have 13 events. Yes, 13. And sometimes they run all 13 for 3 days straight. And yes, I have done it. And none of my horses died or were worse for the wear.
CGA is pretty hard core. I used to run against a girl that made it to the High School Rodeo finals in poles. I can't remember if she won it or not but she was dang close. They run standard barrels there and the good girls are running low 17's...consistently. Poles in the low 20's. It's pretty competitive.
They do speed divisions and not ages. I will tell you, I ran the playdays for my church and we moved them from age to speed and it went over really well. It evened out the competition and it even made the show go faster. I prefer it that way. As information, we averaged about 65 people per playday last year.
Our rule out here is you can run multiple horses for different events. If you want to run more than one horse in each event, you have to designate which one is being ran for points. In California, you can run multiple horses but you can't switch horses out for different events. Works well for them-they have a ton of members (thousands). Curious, how do you divide everyone up by speed? This seems like it would be more fun because some riders know they'll never have a shot at placing because everyone else in their age group is so much faster. In speed divisions, do you have adults riding against kids? Are they ok with that?
CGA has a matrix that has been built for like 20+ years. They have taken the data from that and adjusted throughout the years. You can go online and see how they do it.
We went pretty basic. We only have 3 events and we did 4 divisions. Took the 3 years of data we had and did splits just like you would at a D barrel race. For the most part it worked. Keyhole needed to be adjusted but it actually helped some kids that were walking to place so that was cool. I didn't want to make difference splits for different events as it was a new concept and I didn't want to confuse anyone.
We used the charliehorse software so we could tallie points and what not after every playday and people could watch where they were in the standings.
Yes, adults rode against the kids. Here was our problem. we were running 4 age groups. The adults had the most in them. We were lucky to get 5 in one of the age divisions and we adjusted it every year to try and get more in them. And in every single age bracket, there was someone that was just smoking everyone. We had a ton of people that complained and said they or their kids felt defeated. I mean seriously, we had an 8 year old that was running times to beat everyone at the playday and that division is really meant for kids that are just learning to ride!
By making it by speed, that same 8 year old rode at that same speed but now had competition. And the 8 year old still learning to go past a walk didn't have to feel like they needed to lope just to get a ribbon. MOST of our adults don't want to go past a lope. This gave them an opportunity to place and win in a division.
I can't remember the splits. It was something like 1, 3, 6 seconds or something like that. But you look at the statistics and it evened everything out. Only one person really ran off with everything and it was in the fastest division. All of the others it was a race until the end and people were placing that never had. It was super cool. |
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | sassy&tessa - 2014-02-12 2:47 PM
Gunner11 - 2014-02-12 2:37 PM sassy&tessa - 2014-02-12 1:50 PM lol-I think most of you would die running in the gymkhana associations in California. They have 13 events. Yes, 13. And sometimes they run all 13 for 3 days straight. And yes, I have done it. And none of my horses died or were worse for the wear.
CGA is pretty hard core. I used to run against a girl that made it to the High School Rodeo finals in poles. I can't remember if she won it or not but she was dang close. They run standard barrels there and the good girls are running low 17's...consistently. Poles in the low 20's. It's pretty competitive.
They do speed divisions and not ages. I will tell you, I ran the playdays for my church and we moved them from age to speed and it went over really well. It evened out the competition and it even made the show go faster. I prefer it that way. As information, we averaged about 65 people per playday last year.
Our rule out here is you can run multiple horses for different events. If you want to run more than one horse in each event, you have to designate which one is being ran for points. In California, you can run multiple horses but you can't switch horses out for different events. Works well for them-they have a ton of members (thousands). Curious, how do you divide everyone up by speed? This seems like it would be more fun because some riders know they'll never have a shot at placing because everyone else in their age group is so much faster. In speed divisions, do you have adults riding against kids? Are they ok with that?
We went pretty basic. We only have 3 events and we did 4 divisions. Took the 3 years of data we had and did splits just like you would at a D barrel race. For the most part it worked. Keyhole needed to be adjusted but it actually helped some kids that were walking to place so that was cool. I didn't want to make difference splits for different events as it was a new concept and I didn't want to confuse anyone.
We used the charliehorse software so we could tallie points and what not after every playday and people could watch where they were in the standings.
Yes, adults rode against the kids. Here was our problem. we were running 4 age groups. The adults had the most in them. We were lucky to get 5 in one of the age divisions and we adjusted it every year to try and get more in them. And in every single age bracket, there was someone that was just smoking everyone. We had a ton of people that complained and said they or their kids felt defeated. I mean seriously, we had an 8 year old that was running times to beat everyone at the playday and that division is really meant for kids that are just learning to ride!
By making it by speed, that same 8 year old rode at that same speed but now had competition. And the 8 year old still learning to go past a walk didn't have to feel like they needed to lope just to get a ribbon. MOST of our adults don't want to go past a lope. This gave them an opportunity to place and win in a division.
I can't remember the splits. It was something like 1, 3, 6 seconds or something like that. But you look at the statistics and it evened everything out. Only one person really ran off with everything and it was in the fastest division. All of the others it was a race until the end and people were placing that never had. It was super cool.
That does sound pretty neat. The playdays I go to, you know there's always going to be that one rider in every age class that wins first every time, and it can get discouraging. We also have the problem of some classes having 3 or 4 riders, where another class may have 30. My niece moved up to the next age group last year, so she was the youngest in her class. She's not very fast, so gets beat by most of the girls in her class.
Our group is pretty set in their ways, so I doubt they'd ever change to somthing like this, but it is a very interesting format. I don't have a problem with kids riding against adults, I was mainly curious if it made the adults feel inadequate or dumb if they get beat by a kid. |
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Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | Nope-it was actually the adults that really wanted it! They felt like you. And they wanted to compete against people in the same level of riding as them not by age. We had a ton of compliments. I didn't hear of anyone complaining about the format.
The other great thing about this way is that those same kids CAN improve and when they bump up, it means they are getting better. We had barrel girls bringing colts and this was a great way for them to see sights, improve, and they didn't have to push their horse past their ability.
Also, our adults were super encouraging. Everyone wanted to see the kids do better. We have a lot of adults that really don't want to ride in the 1st division. They do this for fun, to support a kid or grandkid and like their speed they are at. This gave them an opportunity to be comfortable and competitive at the same time.
Edited by sassy&tessa 2014-02-12 3:07 PM
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 Veteran
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon | All the playdays around here are same horse/rider combination for the whole day and if its a series then the whole series. Some will offer you the ability to change horses throughout the series if you provide a vet note. If you ride more than one horse, you accumulate points on each horse, but the high points aren't cumulative between the 2 horses. As far as multiple people riding the same horse, most associations are ok with that around here, as long as the horse doesn't compete against itself in the same division. For years, my sister and I both competed on the same horse. Luckily our ages were just far enough apart that we weren't in the same age division. |
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | sassy&tessa - 2014-02-12 3:05 PM Nope-it was actually the adults that really wanted it! They felt like you. And they wanted to compete against people in the same level of riding as them not by age. We had a ton of compliments. I didn't hear of anyone complaining about the format.
The other great thing about this way is that those same kids CAN improve and when they bump up, it means they are getting better. We had barrel girls bringing colts and this was a great way for them to see sights, improve, and they didn't have to push their horse past their ability.
Also, our adults were super encouraging. Everyone wanted to see the kids do better. We have a lot of adults that really don't want to ride in the 1st division. They do this for fun, to support a kid or grandkid and like their speed they are at. This gave them an opportunity to be comfortable and competitive at the same time.
I think this sounds great. I will have to do some more research into it. I'm pretty sure if I bring it up to the club they will shoot it down but I'm going to do it anyway, LOL. Can't possibly be any more arguing than they did at the last meeting. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | I love the CGA timing format to for divisions, you actually sign up at any division, if you run faster you still can place but in the higher division but you dont' get points for that class in the division you signed up in. CSHA has speed divisions also but they have 4 rating events that they take your times from and average them out, so you may be a Div. 2 in barrels, a Div2 in poles and have trouble with say Birangle and you are a Div 4 and also with whatever the 4th event is and average down to a Div.3 rider say. To me this system allows for sandbagging where as the CGA system doesn't.
Here is the timing matrix for CGA...
http://www.calgymkhana.com/docs/rulesndocs/ratingmatrix.pdf |
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | run n rate - 2014-02-12 3:30 PM I love the CGA timing format to for divisions, you actually sign up at any division, if you run faster you still can place but in the higher division but you dont' get points for that class in the division you signed up in. CSHA has speed divisions also but they have 4 rating events that they take your times from and average them out, so you may be a Div. 2 in barrels, a Div2 in poles and have trouble with say Birangle and you are a Div 4 and also with whatever the 4th event is and average down to a Div.3 rider say. To me this system allows for sandbagging where as the CGA system doesn't. Here is the timing matrix for CGA... http://www.calgymkhana.com/docs/rulesndocs/ratingmatrix.pdf
I don't understand the chart? Can you please explain. I think I like this method just trying to understand it completely before I talk to anyone in the club about it.
Edited by GraciousLegacy 2014-02-12 3:44 PM
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Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | Gracious-Basically, if you are new, sign up for Future Champion. That is the lowest division so no matter what you have an opportunity to place. This way you can see where you really are. In the matrix, we will take barrels as that is an easy one to figure out. So if you sign up for FC, the highest time you can place is under that category to the left. If you go faster than that, you bump up to the next division (A). To reach the highest, fastest division, I think it is something like an 18.0. Remember, in CGA, no matter where you ride in the state of California, the dimensions do not change, which is part of why they can do this.
We tweeked this. You don't have to sign up in a division at the playdays. You sign up and the computer sysstem did a random draw. We did a random draw at each playday so you never knew where you would be. We set the drags at every 15 riders but in our rules we were allowed to drag additionally if we felt we needed to (which didn't happen at all last year).
The data put our splits the way we did it. It was super basic and we told our committee we would tweek next year if we felt we needed to. BUT, we stayed consistent the whole year because it is SO new to Texas and we didn't want to confuse anyone.
Honestly, we basically explained it as we took the 4D format, made the splits bigger, and called it a day. The only thing you have to decide is how you will determine points if someone flip flops between divisions throughout the series. We only had one issue but we had made a decision up front of how we would handle it and everyone knew. So while we had to make the call, there was no argument.
Edited by sassy&tessa 2014-02-12 4:23 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 731
Location: WNY | GraciousLegacy - 2014-02-12 3:22 PM
luckyrunner - 2014-02-12 1:26 PM GraciousLegacy - 2014-02-12 1:25 PM How? I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it is an advantage. Not arguing just want someone to explain what they think the unfair advantages are. Ok so if its pointed on rider only, and you have jane deere running and accumulating points on 3 horses. Even if they are getting even 3rd 4th and 5th place that's 9 points in one class for that rider. While John Doe on his one horse maybe won the class but that only gets him 6 points. Even if he won all day Jane would take high point as long as she kept placing.
They are wanting to run each class ONE time, not multiple times, but on which ever horse they want.
Example: They run five events. Use horse "A" on events 1, 2, and 3. Use horse "B" on events 4 and 5. They can't earn any extra points. They are only making one run per event just not using the same horse all day.
Edited to add...this club does not allow any exhibitions. So if you own more than one horse or are trying to get one seasoned it is impossible the way they have it set up.
Oh okay I got a little lost I guess. Yeah I don't see how that would be so unfair. I mean if someone has the means to run 6 different horse one in each class.. Lol seems like extreme measures to me even to run 3 if your only getting 2 runs on each just for a playday. Also seems like a lot to keep track of for the show committee too (usually that's where the drama comes in is no one wants to change how they are doing the paperwork) It's one of those things.. To each their own. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | So like S&T said, the fastest time in the FC on barrels you can run and stay in that division is a 28.310. If you sign up for AAA+ and something goes wrong on a turn and you run a mid 19 then that falls into the AAA (no +) division, no chance for a ribbon and no points in your division either... |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | So like S&T said, the fastest time in the FC on barrels you can run and stay in that division is a 28.310. If you sign up for AAA+ and something goes wrong on a turn and you run a mid 19 then that falls into the AAA (no +) division, no chance for a ribbon and no points in your division either... |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | If someone wants to bring multiple horses then it's in the best interest of the club to do so. If someone has a horse that can only do two events and another that can do the remaining three why exclude them.
If you are doing it on a points basis award the points to the horse. The more events the horse competes in the more potential points they earn.
The goal is to have a successful club so the more entries you get the more things you can do with the money you earn. If you start excluding people because they want to run two or more horses then you lose all those people who want to participate to season their horses, and those who have specialized horses they want to reserve for events.
When entering base the entry on the horse. For example if it's $20 if you enter all five classes it has to be on ONE horse/rider combination. Otherwise it's $5 per class and make any office fees based on horse/rider combination.
I find so many clubs start fretting over the little things that eventually the club fails simply because they invoked so many excluding rules. Make it fun for everyone and the club succeeds - and no you won't please everyone all the time.
Good luck
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | i have to agree with Sassy & Tessa CGA is super cool. You can run all over the state and the same divisions/matrix is used. the same patterns and same judging rules.
the only thing I didn't like was the long days as I rode in a club with over 100 riders. and they did not tractor between riders, so it got pretty bad. I used to sign up in AAA+ even with a colt so I could be on decent ground!
some places with high numbers and big arenas will split the arena in half with tape. and run the skinny patterns side by side |
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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | my club makes you specify your point horse for each event and you can ride as many as you like. More than two will run you ragged if it is a small class though. Great for seasoning one though. I have never heard of the aaa divisions or anything. We just split by ages. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| Here is my two cents, and this is just my experience and in no way is every club like this.
I do 4H, which has a slow day for pleasure/halter and stuff, then a speed day for barrels/poles and stuff like that. Well, my mare and I dominate both days (we just built a horse barn at the fair grounds so last year was the first year our fair ever had horses, and my mare's stall was covered in Grand Champion banners, haha). How we do points is based off of a horse/rider combination, and you can show up to 3 horses (4 if a mare and foal as they are counted as 1). Well, the high point award before I started showing my mare, was DOMINATED by the pleasure riders since there were more pleasure classes. Well, I am the cause of drama where ever I go because I totally go against the grain in what ever I do. So when I showed up with this BA all around barrel horse, and I beat everyone in everything, this got the adult leaders trying to make stupid rules, like only being able to show a horse on one day, not both. Needless to say, it didn't fly because head leader is this mare's owner. (LOL). I'll be showing 2 or 3 horses this year, but still my mare will be the primary one, the other two are a halter gelding then possibly a second barrel horse gelding (OTTB).
These small clubs full of immature kids and adults on powertrips are just full of drama is what I'm getting at, and don't let them get to you. Shrug it off and keep going. (For those who are wondering, I have 2 years left and yes I plan on taking the high point award both years to add to my last 3 titles. and to keep my barrel horse thinking a little bit. haha)
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Veteran
Posts: 155
| CGA is what I run with too. And yes, there are divisions cut up based on speed. For each show, you can bump up one division and get points, but you do not get placed if you fall one division below what you signed up for. For instance, say you are running barrels. You sign up for A (the times are FC, A, AA, AAA, and AAA+), but you run a time that would fall into the AA category. Say you place second. You get the points for getting second. But say you run slower than A and place in FC. You get no points at all, and they do not place you. Same with if you were to run a AAA time.
But yes, it can get really competitive once you hit the midway point in AA. AAA times on poles are in the low 20s if you want to place and win a ribbon. 13 events, every single one is different and requires different skills from the horses. Oh, and ribbons are not the only things to win. Saddles, buckles, halters, hay bags, tack sets, SMB's, and cash can also be won. It is a fun association. |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | I didn't read all the responses but most associations I have run in allow you to use more than one horse if you choose. I have always used one horse for all the events, however I do not run in the summer months here in AZ. I don't think there is any reason why a horse can't do them all but I also do not have a problem with someone who rides multiple horses. |
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | Thank you for all the replies. I have been reading through the CGA website and have found lots of good info and ideas. I'm really liking the idea of speed divisions instead of age divisions. I have doubts as to whether or not I can get the old timers in this club to understand how it works but I'm going to give it a shot. If it doesn't work then I guess I need to move to California LOL. |
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Question/Opinion for those that do playdays/gymkhanas - more than one horse??