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 Tried and True
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Location: Where I am happiest | Is anybody else as worried about the water situation and economy as I am?I am sitting here with a very nice mare we had planned to breed this year to a very sought after sire. Now? I'm not so sure if thats the smartest thing to do.
The western states are in a severe drought. NO water.To add on top of that, in Oregon we have the indians who have laid claim to hundreds of years old irrigation rights water to run free and keep the rivers spilling over their banks for the sport fishingThen on top of that we have the environmentalists vieing for the water in the tributaries, rivers, streams, and reseviors for a dang sucker fish. The result of all these pulls, is the farmers and ranchers have been cut off of irrigation water. No pasture/grazing grass, No irrigation for hay.
California has the environmentalists wanting to save a smelt fish, and a severe drought. All this spans the entire western states region. Then we have the economy which isnt good by any stretch of the imagination and economists are saying hold on, it's going to tank worse then ever in the next few months.
With all of these things in play, I am scared hay is going to be in VERY short supply and what little hay will be able to be found, is going to be sky high like prices we have never seen before. Not to mention the economy is going to make selling any horses next impossible. Not so sure I would be wise to breed this mare this year.
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
 
Location: In the Hills of Texas | And the liberal morons dumped good water into the Pacific instead of for irrigation because of some bait fish..I do believe they want to destroy this country. One said we could import our food. Makes sense...we finally are getting off of be dependant on the Middle East for oil so now they want us to be dependant on our food from some 3rd world country. Brilliant. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| You are also forgetting fruit and vegetables, with all the crazy weather just food for human consumption prices will hit an all time high.
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | Yes indeed, at a bale of hay being $15 and going thru 2 bales per horse per week my paycheck doesn't stretch as far as it used to...and it's only going to go up. Got a few inches of rain last week but near enough to grow actual pasture for this spring. I have to chose between hay or gas money to get to work... |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Nevertooold - 2014-02-17 3:39 PM And the liberal morons dumped good water into the Pacific instead of for irrigation because of some bait fish..I do believe they want to destroy this country. One said we could import our food. Makes sense...we finally are getting off of be dependant on the Middle East for oil so now they want us to be dependant on our food from some 3rd world country. Brilliant.
I read an article that said California HAD in place resivoirs and holding tank's that would supply water for farmers for 5 years in the case of severe drought like now. The liberal idiots at the helm dismantled it all and lets it flow into the Pacific all for that stupid little smelt bait fish. |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place |
Read the book Every Drop For Sale. |
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Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | I read about all that panicked and bought a couple tons more hay and plan to buy a little more every paycheck and hoard it like I do my own food.   |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Not stopping the masses from breeding. Go for it.  It's only money..... |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | I thought I was the only one that thought that way. I am looking at my barn only 30% full and getting nervous at the thought of getting decent hay. I was looking at prospects and i am thinking twice right now. i made it through the last hay crisis with 6 horses. I am down to 3 now. so I hope I make it!
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Oh you bet, so dry here and up around Carrizo Springs Texas the water is being used up really fast. I know of a few places that are running dry.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2014-02-17 4:52 PM
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| We have been in a drought for several years. And even though people around us got some decent rains this past year, we didn't hardly get any. We have half a circle of hay and irrigate only that half unless it is laid down, then we'll water the other half which is crabgrass and rye. Last year, our alfalfa did way less than the previous year, and we didn't have any crabgrass until the very end of the year. Our sprinkler is pumping less water each year. And now hearing that other places across the country are struggling with drought. I'm very worried. Not just about the drought, about this nation as a whole. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Scared is an understatement of how I feel about our current economic situation in this country. The people of my generation that think they are entitled to everything with no work scares the $h!t out of me ... especially when they begin to vote; by ranking social issues over economic issues. I do believe it is only going to get worse in my future and I'm not ok with it ...
I am intimately familiar with the moronic environmentalist attitudes in the PNW ... growing up with a few hundred acres and a 3rd generation seed stock sheep production farm, we dealt (and still do) with the most "special, tree hugging, liberal, morons".
The fight over waterways is ridiculous. For example: there is a small stream that heads out of a rock quarry located on our farm. The creek/ stream only crosses our property (running and providing water to two different summer pastures) before ending in the local river which runs to the Columbia and then out to the Pacific. The local environmentalists surveyed our property via airplane and have moved in court for us to fence off 25 feet from the creek as the sheep may walk in it and poop in it. Their reasoning is that the manure from the sheep will kill the young salmon that originate in the river that this creek dumps into. Mind you, they think it doesn't matter that the sheep are only around the creek during summer ... which is LONG after the salmon have hatched and moved onto the bigger waters down on the Columbia, roughly 10 miles away ... They are a special breed of special for sure as their is more pollution dumped in the rivers from the CITY of PORTLAND than all the ag in our area combined. *facepalm*
I think the water situation is only going to make hay prices skyrocket as well ... I currently live smack in the middle of the country and my parents are literally thinking it will be cheaper to pay my SO and I to truck semi loads of alfalfa to them than it will be to buy within the state .. crazy for sure!
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | ThreeCorners - 2014-02-17 3:56 PM Nevertooold - 2014-02-17 3:39 PM And the liberal morons dumped good water into the Pacific instead of for irrigation because of some bait fish..I do believe they want to destroy this country. One said we could import our food. Makes sense...we finally are getting off of be dependant on the Middle East for oil so now they want us to be dependant on our food from some 3rd world country. Brilliant. I read an article that said California HAD in place resivoirs and holding tank's that would supply water for farmers for 5 years in the case of severe drought like now. The liberal idiots at the helm dismantled it all and lets it flow into the Pacific all for that stupid little smelt bait fish.
Yes...Exactly what I was referring to. |
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Veteran
Posts: 161
Location: Right Where I'm Meant To Be :) | I'm really worried about the cost of fuel too |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | cheryl makofka - 2014-02-17 3:41 PM You are also forgetting fruit and vegetables, with all the crazy weather just food for human consumption prices will hit an all time high.
Yep! Produce has already been climbing steady lately and I cant imagine what it's going to be come a few more months when the reality of such a drop in harvests hit. . Beef will also sky rocket as feed prices are going to go through the roof and any cattle held over will be on dry lot feed. |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | No rain, extremely high hay prices and people cutting back has been the norm in my area for about 3 years now. I'm thankful that I have cousins and close friends who grow hay and still give me a good deal on what I need. My neighbors have sold off their cattle herds and that also helps in not competing with them for our cattle and horse hay. My friends who are in the horse breeding business have cut back from having 4-5 babies to just 1 or possibly 2 while the market is so bad. I'm praying that the El Nino that's been predicted is going to happen. It would give us some much needed rain. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska | ThreeCorners - 2014-02-17 3:56 PM Nevertooold - 2014-02-17 3:39 PM And the liberal morons dumped good water into the Pacific instead of for irrigation because of some bait fish..I do believe they want to destroy this country. One said we could import our food. Makes sense...we finally are getting off of be dependant on the Middle East for oil so now they want us to be dependant on our food from some 3rd world country. Brilliant. I read an article that said California HAD in place resivoirs and holding tank's that would supply water for farmers for 5 years in the case of severe drought like now. The liberal idiots at the helm dismantled it all and lets it flow into the Pacific all for that stupid little smelt bait fish.
I wish people would quit calling them liberals. They are COMMIES. They are insane. They want the government to control EVERYTHING and their insanity leads them to believe they are right about everything, when in REALITY, they are dead wrong. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1611
Location: bring on the heat, NV | Absolutely our calf crop sucked last fall because of bad weather the year before but its looking awesome this year because last spring was good and we had a lot of open fat mommas.... My eight ball thingy says outlook not good  .
I had big plans to buy sheep but instead paid off bills. Im dying to order baby chicks but im thinking next year at best...
Edited by moapajetrider 2014-02-17 6:04 PM
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | I'm very worried about the lack of rainfall and the water fights I see coming. It's going to be a disaster for our state, and it will have a huge impact on the country as a whole. California produces roughly 25% of the nations citrus crop (Florida is number 1), 45% of the nations fresh vegtables, and 21% of milk/milk products among many, many other food sources. We have received very little to no rain and those **** smelt are now getting all the farmers water - WTH? Where is common sense? Time to start another letter writing campaign to the idiots in DC...
In addition, they are also projecting up to 30% of our fields to lay barren this year due to lack of rainfall/water restrictions. This will have a HUGE impact on food prices all across the country! LA County has already started to ask for voluntary water conservation and the next step is manditory. Several counties in central California are doing the same, and some are trying to pushing through manditory restrictions now.
I don't even want to think about hay prices for cattle and horses.  |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/15-reasons-why-your-food-bill-is-going-to-start-soaring Chilling...... |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | GoGaited - 2014-02-17 5:52 PM ThreeCorners - 2014-02-17 3:56 PM Nevertooold - 2014-02-17 3:39 PM And the liberal morons dumped good water into the Pacific instead of for irrigation because of some bait fish..I do believe they want to destroy this country. One said we could import our food. Makes sense...we finally are getting off of be dependant on the Middle East for oil so now they want us to be dependant on our food from some 3rd world country. Brilliant. I read an article that said California HAD in place resivoirs and holding tank's that would supply water for farmers for 5 years in the case of severe drought like now. The liberal idiots at the helm dismantled it all and lets it flow into the Pacific all for that stupid little smelt bait fish.
They hold high offices in our government so I thought calling them Liberals was being nice and politically correct. Kerry has declared Global warming worse then Weapons of Mass Destruction. It's not global warming but the fools like him and Obama that hold office. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| Anniemae - 2014-02-17 4:26 PM
I'm very worried about the lack of rainfall and the water fights I see coming. It's going to be a disaster for our state, and it will have a huge impact on the country as a whole. California produces roughly 25% of the nations citrus crop (Florida is number 1), 45% of the nations fresh vegtables, and 21% of milk/milk products among many, many other food sources. We have received very little to no rain and those **** smelt are now getting all the farmers water - WTH? Where is common sense? Time to start another letter writing campaign to the idiots in DC... In addition, they are also projecting up to 30% of our fields to lay barren this year due to lack of rainfall/water restrictions. This will have a HUGE impact on food prices all across the country! LA County has already started to ask for voluntary water conservation and the next step is manditory. Several counties in central California are doing the same, and some are trying to pushing through manditory restrictions now.
I don't even want to think about hay prices for cattle and horses.
Down here in San Diego a few years ago they made all of the avocado growers kill off 10% of their orchards to conserve water. I wonder what they are going to force them to do now since it seems as if the water situation is even worse. CA is in bad shape...we are the 5th largest agricultural industry in the WORLD. And now we are not only competing with each other as ranchers and farmers for hay, but also with our best friend...China. Friggin awesome! |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Yep, I am afraid this country will turn into " Mad Max" "under world" "Running Man" and Robo Cop. History always repeats itself we just don't know which order will come first. Be very afraid. You know cause and effect. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California |
Thank you for sharing the link and those stats. It pretty much sums up what we out west have been worrying about for the last few years. If people think the economy is rocky now, just wait until they see the food prices 6 months from now. This is not a government conspiracy, this is mother nature playing havoc with one of our country's major food sources.
Don't even know where the water is going to come from as there is so little to divide up between so many. Time to get down to the basics, drinking water and agriculture/ranching. All else needs to take a backseat, period. This should not be open to negotiation/special interest groups/fish/frogs or owls.
Praying for rain, sleet, snow, anything wet!!!  |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | ThreeCorners - 2014-02-17 1:56 PM Nevertooold - 2014-02-17 3:39 PM And the liberal morons dumped good water into the Pacific instead of for irrigation because of some bait fish..I do believe they want to destroy this country. One said we could import our food. Makes sense...we finally are getting off of be dependant on the Middle East for oil so now they want us to be dependant on our food from some 3rd world country. Brilliant. I read an article that said California HAD in place resivoirs and holding tank's that would supply water for farmers for 5 years in the case of severe drought like now. The liberal idiots at the helm dismantled it all and lets it flow into the Pacific all for that stupid little smelt bait fish.
Some of this did occur, but the reality of it is that our reservoirs/storage tanks have all but dried up over the past couple years due to lack or rain/snow. How the heck do you fill these up with a few inches of rain a year? We desperately needed at least an average rainfall this year and we got nothing but a few sprinkles. 
We've had a little over 1" of rain during the "season" in the city that I live. The season started July 1st. Average is just shy of 15" Dry as a bone around here!!
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Veteran
Posts: 116
| Don't you just hate it when the Indians lay claim to something that has 'belonged' to others for hundreds of years?!? Do you read this stuff before you post it? |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | rawhide - 2014-02-18 5:37 AM Don't you just hate it when the Indians lay claim to something that has 'belonged' to others for hundreds of years?!? Do you read this stuff before you post it? This was last year when they turned off the irrigation water to the farmers and ranchers in the Klamath Basin due to the Indians getting the water. The farmers and ranchers got together, and descended on the town of Klamath Falls. Virtually shutting the town down, with all their horns blowing, driving from the fairgrounds all the way through town to the courthouse. Klamath County IS a county centered around farming and ranching with HUGE ranches. It is the only industry there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpBwZuxfukI
Edited by ThreeCorners 2014-02-18 8:32 AM
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | rawhide - 2014-02-18 5:37 AM Don't you just hate it when the Indians lay claim to something that has 'belonged' to others for hundreds of years?!? Do you read this stuff before you post it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP3TGkcye9g Here is the news story. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhBnslWapIc |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I don't think a lot of people realize how serious water issues are getting all over the country. Even here, where we have tons of excess surface water, we don't have any way to store it for use. And our ground water is getting badly depleted. The ground water situation is even worse in some areas than it is here. There are projects to harness surface water that have been stuck in the planning stages for years because of lack of money.
Praying for for rain out west! |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I live in Minnesota where you can be blindfolded and throw a rock in any random direction and there's a 50:50 chance of hitting water. I have to confess that never in my life have I ever thought of the concept of literally running out of water.
When I lived in the Caribbean, everyone depends on cisterns that capture and hold rain water. That's the way it's always been there. I wonder if people are considering that option.
This is depressing. |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I personally dont think that hay prices, especially in my area are ever going to exceed $200 a ton. The market cant afford it to be any higher. The primary hay purchaser is the dairy industry and if prices go higher it will force the milk producers out of business. The foreign markets couldn't support higher prices either. I think we are safe as far as feed prices go. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| I thought EPA scientists were like Gods to you guys? Oh really, you dont know how much power they have? No surprise.
Buh bye, im off to huff some mold!
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| HotbearLVR - 2014-02-18 9:10 AM
I live in Minnesota where you can be blindfolded and throw a rock in any random direction and there's a 50:50 chance of hitting water. I have to confess that never in my life have I ever thought of the concept of literally running out of water.
When I lived in the Caribbean, everyone depends on cisterns that capture and hold rain water. That's the way it's always been there. I wonder if people are considering that option.
This is depressing.
I think the idea is right, but, what happens when you are so far behind in rainfall in a region that there literally is no water to capture?
Just thinking, not arguing  |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This thread just serves to illustrate how most people don't really give a rats ass about the direction this country is headed.......UNTIL it effects them personally. Then, all of a sudden, people are up in arms. ObamaCare has stirred the masses like nothing before it because people are starting to realize the extent to which it is disrupting this country. People are seeing how this effects the job market, insurance premiums, and the economy in general. As long as an individual's Ox isn't gored, that individual generally doesn't care. Well, now most people are effected. Different things seem to get people up in arms. For some, it may be jobs. For others it's the cost of healthcare. For others, it's the cost of fuel and the scarcity of water. For other's it's a matter of being able to afford to feed their horses. This is not some crisis that has developed overnight. It's been decades in the making.
It seems to me that the sheer number and weight of all these crises is finally beginning to reach critical mass. People from both ends of the political spectrum are beginning to realize we are living under a tyrannical regime where a President has assumed the mantle of supreme ruler. To make matters worse, we have a situations where the inmates are running the asylum........the "takers" outnumber the producers and providers.
I really think it is going to require a huge crisis of epic proportions to teach this country the lesson we ought to have learned long ago. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | lindseylou2290 - 2014-02-18 9:30 AM
HotbearLVR - 2014-02-18 9:10 AM
I live in Minnesota where you can be blindfolded and throw a rock in any random direction and there's a 50:50 chance of hitting water. I have to confess that never in my life have I ever thought of the concept of literally running out of water.
When I lived in the Caribbean, everyone depends on cisterns that capture and hold rain water. That's the way it's always been there. I wonder if people are considering that option.
This is depressing.
I think the idea is right, but, what happens when you are so far behind in rainfall in a region that there literally is no water to capture?
Just thinking, not arguing
When they have gone through drought, they relied on desalinization plants for water, even on small islands. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Not only have the avocado farmers pulled/cut down trees, the almond farmers are also starting to do the same thing. We have some friends who have pecan farms here in GA and almond's and produce farms in the Valley in CA. They are saying that they are not going to be able to plant as much produce as they want and are cutting trees.
We are going to be a big farming convention this weekend and some of the speakers are from out West. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say about the long range forecast. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | I so, so wish that I could box this rain and snow up and send it out west. My barn flooded last night because the moisture has no where to go. Our ground is too saturated. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | HotbearLVR - 2014-02-18 9:10 AM I live in Minnesota where you can be blindfolded and throw a rock in any random direction and there's a 50:50 chance of hitting water. I have to confess that never in my life have I ever thought of the concept of literally running out of water. When I lived in the Caribbean, everyone depends on cisterns that capture and hold rain water. That's the way it's always been there. I wonder if people are considering that option. This is depressing.
Doc, thats like the Klamath Basin. There is ALOT of bodies of water there. However, the state is run by Democrats and is very divided between the cities ie: Portland, Salem, Eugene, and the east side of the state which is your conservative farmers and ranchers. Same division Ca. see's but the idiots in the cities keep voting in these dems and they seem to think that food just grows on the grocery store shelf. Then we have the environmentalists and animal activests that want to save every little species. Even if it's something completely useless in the grand scheme of things. Then we add the indians, now the severe drought, and the farmers and ranchers are dead last. The city idiots will water their lawns and golf courses first and always.
Not only is our grocery bill, beef and produce and dairy going to sky rocket, and feed prices, but the economic impact, loss of jobs and revenue has a HUGE trickle down effect. Not just the farmers and ranchers out, but then add farm workers, ranch hands, equipment/tractor companies and sales, fertalizer, trucking to truck all the farm goods and equipment, ect ect ect.
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Sideways Riding Expert
Posts: 11371
Location: ND--it snows, it floods, it snows, it floods | I feel for you guys out west. It's not going to be pretty at all, I hate to say it but I see the 30's coming back and that scares the ever living crap out of me. |
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The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | I assure you Scott, we care. Just no need to come onto a board and shout from the roof tops.
I can't control what others do, I can only control what happens on this property. I vote, I make phone calls, but hell who are we kidding. Take care of yourself and prepare.
Kelly, we have plenty of hay here, but you will pay for it, heck we are paying for it due to good ole "Supply and Demand." Only you can decide if you can make a profit by breeding your mare and paying for how many years of feed and care.
Good luck with your decision.
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | I think desalination plants are the answere. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | docschic - 2014-02-18 9:48 AM I feel for you guys out west. It's not going to be pretty at all, I hate to say it but I see the 30's coming back and that scares the ever living crap out of me.
Thats what some are saying. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I just looked up the boeuf-tensas water project because I heard at our last conservation district meeting (I'm an elected official--scary huh? LOL) that it might be getting jump started again, and found this statement from a meeting last summer: "Water is becoming too expensive for some agricultural applications in the western states, where irrigation was regularly used to compensate for lack of rainfall. As a result, irrigated production is moving to eastern “rain-fed” states, Branch said." The guy who said that is a former water sources specialist with LSU. So. Apparently even before the latest crisis, there was awareness of the problem and yet it was allowed to rock on...for what ultimate purpose? |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | fatchance - 2014-02-18 9:55 AM
I assure you Scott, we care. Just no need to come onto a board and shout from the roof tops.
I can't control what others do, I can only control what happens on this property. I vote, I make phone calls, but hell who are we kidding. Take care of yourself and prepare.
Kelly, we have plenty of hay here, but you will pay for it, heck we are paying for it due to good ole "Supply and Demand." Only you can decide if you can make a profit by breeding your mare and paying for how many years of feed and care.
Good luck with your decision.
I look at it differently. In fact, getting people to shout from the rooftops whenever and wherever we can is exactly what's needed. As a matter of fact, that is essentially what this thread is doing. More and more people are realizing that it might take nothing short of a "revolt" to make a difference that is worthwhile. That "revolt" originates in town hall meetings, coffee shops, the kitchen tables, and yes, on the internet. Everyone who has participated on this thread is playing a part in that much needed "revolt".
This is nothing new to this nation. We started out this way as a nation, in fact. That revolt started with the stamp tax act, and other acts of tyranny that followed. Those people risked all they had to step outside of their own selfish concerns to rise up against tyranny. Just because that all happened about 2 1/2 centuries ago doesn't mean it can't happen again. History repeats itself....always has....always will. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Whiteboy - 2014-02-18 9:16 AM I personally dont think that hay prices, especially in my area are ever going to exceed $200 a ton. The market cant afford it to be any higher. The primary hay purchaser is the dairy industry and if prices go higher it will force the milk producers out of business. The foreign markets couldn't support higher prices either. I think we are safe as far as feed prices go.
We buy our hay from our next door neighbor. However, supply and demand will drive the prices. With so many, in 11 western states effected by the lack of irrigation water, supply will be low which will drive the prices way up and who ever has hay, will be trucking that hay out. |
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 Friendly horse swapper
Posts: 4122
Location: Buffalo, TX | Please don't think I'm a doomsayer, but there is a lot going on right now that may even be calculated to send this country into a tailspin.....
I'm not as worried about water in my area as I am another drought driving hay prices sky high again.....I am lucky to have a spring fed pond....but I do hear about water troubles in other areas that would be very scary to me if I lived there....and I do understand how political it is (like everything else, we are at the government's mercy)....
I'm more worried about feed prices, food prices, and the inevitable stock market crash that is coming....our country can't sustain the lack of jobs, endless giveaways, and especially all the printing of money that is not backed by gold or anything at all anymore....this just can't continue the way it is.....feed and food will go sky high in the event of a crash....
I don't trust our government to lead us out of this mess....all I can do is try to prepare myself the best I can....I stock food, I own gold and plenty of silver....and I've been doing the only thing that can secure my future no matter what, and that's buying real estate....I'm buying rental property for cash flow.....it's the perfect storm right now in the real estate up and down cycle.....it's really a golden age for buying...the perfect buying opportunity that won't be seen again for probably over 15 years.....interest rates are rock bottom, home prices are just starting to show a slow rise, and rents are high.....banks are still sitting on a lot of foreclosure properties and we have maybe 2-3 years to take advantage of this...I can guarantee you that those who buy decent rent houses at the right prices in the next couple years and hold on to it will be millionaires in 10 years...I wasn't going to say this, but it might help someone out there do their research and be sitting very well in a few years.....
It's not just water...it all works together to form a pattern of losing our rights....
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Friendly horse swapper
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Location: Buffalo, TX | HotbearLVR - 2014-02-18 9:36 AM This thread just serves to illustrate how most people don't really give a rats ass about the direction this country is headed.......UNTIL it effects them personally. Then, all of a sudden, people are up in arms. ObamaCare has stirred the masses like nothing before it because people are starting to realize the extent to which it is disrupting this country. People are seeing how this effects the job market, insurance premiums, and the economy in general. As long as an individual's Ox isn't gored, that individual generally doesn't care. Well, now most people are effected. Different things seem to get people up in arms. For some, it may be jobs. For others it's the cost of healthcare. For others, it's the cost of fuel and the scarcity of water. For other's it's a matter of being able to afford to feed their horses. This is not some crisis that has developed overnight. It's been decades in the making. It seems to me that the sheer number and weight of all these crises is finally beginning to reach critical mass. People from both ends of the political spectrum are beginning to realize we are living under a tyrannical regime where a President has assumed the mantle of supreme ruler. To make matters worse, we have a situations where the inmates are running the asylum........the "takers" outnumber the producers and providers. I really think it is going to require a huge crisis of epic proportions to teach this country the lesson we ought to have learned long ago.
Oh, it's coming alright, and most will be blindsided when it does....follow the curve of the stock market leading up to the 1929 crash and it's exactly the same now....it's a wreck waiting to happen, and when it does, we won't recover like we did in 1929....things are different now.....and I do believe that it will be a calculated crash engineered to benefit those in power who will be waiting in the wings to grab up stocks at rock bottom prices and take advantage of the weak and unprepared in any way they can.....and the first thing to be affected will be the food supply and the government will have us right in their palm....
Scott is 100% right that this has been a long time coming and it's being done in a way that most of us are unaware or apathetic because we want our lives to continue on the same daily path without paying attention to what goes on around us.....that way of thinking is no worse than those at the bottom who take all the freebies and don't care what goes on because all they want is to be taken care of however the government decides....we are pawns in the game being played by our government officials and those who want to seize power, and this administration has ramped it up like no other before it....and I'm convinced that the RINO's are standing back and doing nothing so all of these power plays will be in place when it's their turn to be in charge....that's why they are so scared of the Ted Cruz's of the world...there just aren't enough of them.....
 sorry....off my soapbox and back to selling trailers.... |
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Tried and True
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Location: Where I am happiest | Hotbear and Cindy, I think your right. All the factors comming together is creating the perfect storm and all the straws together is creating a load the camels back is about to break.
Hotbear, you mentioned catching the rain water/snow melt. My husband and I watched a show on the discovery channel last weekend called Buying Alaska. They had metal roofs on the houses and the drain spouts led into a purification system and then into a big holding tank for fresh water on a tiny Alaskan island. This supplied plenty of water for the entire property. However, due to our tyrannical govt. in all their infinate wisdom, in many western states, the state believes they also own the rain water and it is illegal to catch and use the rain water God provides.
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Location: Never in one place long | It should be no surprise that the West is having water problems.... we have built up HUGE populations in areas that cannot sustain them in the long run, the truth is there is not enough water and we are running things dry.... Cadillac Desert is a great book to read explaining these issues. The populations cannot and will not be sustained in these areas that were meant to be DESERTS and yet we have turned them into lush areas using the water at alarming rates.... in addition damaging ecosystems. 1,000's of acres of water intensive crops are planted in areas that they NEVER should have been with the amount of rainfall in the area.
I am not surprised about this at all and I do believe the economy is going to get much worse. That is the reason I have decided to only have two horses, pay off all debt as quickly as possible and start saving... it's a smart thing to do in any time but especially uncertain times and they are coming... maybe not now or in the next year but sooner then we think...you are smart to question breeding your horse in my opinion..... |
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Location: Never in one place long | ThreeCorners - 2014-02-18 11:22 AM
Hotbear and Cindy, I think your right. All the factors comming together is creating the perfect storm and all the straws together is creating a load the camels back is about to break.
Hotbear, you mentioned catching the rain water/snow melt. My husband and I watched a show on the discovery channel last weekend called Buying Alaska. They had metal roofs on the houses and the drain spouts led into a purification system and then into a big holding tank for fresh water on a tiny Alaskan island. This supplied plenty of water for the entire property. However, due to our tyrannical govt. in all their infinate wisdom, in many western states, the state believes they also own the rain water and it is illegal to catch and use the rain water God provides.
yep, this is true and SAD!! In an arid area, it is actually better to "hold" the water in one place as long as possible!! They are ignoring this fact and who gives the government permission to deny you to collect WATER ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY!!!!! I can see bannig the bottling of water for profit but this seriously!!! |
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Cindy Hamilton - 2014-02-18 10:52 AM Please don't think I'm a doomsayer, but there is a lot going on right now that may even be calculated to send this country into a tailspin.....
I'm not as worried about water in my area as I am another drought driving hay prices sky high again.....I am lucky to have a spring fed pond....but I do hear about water troubles in other areas that would be very scary to me if I lived there....and I do understand how political it is (like everything else, we are at the government's mercy)....
I'm more worried about feed prices, food prices, and the inevitable stock market crash that is coming....our country can't sustain the lack of jobs, endless giveaways, and especially all the printing of money that is not backed by gold or anything at all anymore....this just can't continue the way it is.....feed and food will go sky high in the event of a crash....
I don't trust our government to lead us out of this mess....all I can do is try to prepare myself the best I can....I stock food, I own gold and plenty of silver....and I've been doing the only thing that can secure my future no matter what, and that's buying real estate....I'm buying rental property for cash flow.....it's the perfect storm right now in the real estate up and down cycle.....it's really a golden age for buying...the perfect buying opportunity that won't be seen again for probably over 15 years.....interest rates are rock bottom, home prices are just starting to show a slow rise, and rents are high.....banks are still sitting on a lot of foreclosure properties and we have maybe 2-3 years to take advantage of this...I can guarantee you that those who buy decent rent houses at the right prices in the next couple years and hold on to it will be millionaires in 10 years...I wasn't going to say this, but it might help someone out there do their research and be sitting very well in a few years.....
It's not just water...it all works together to form a pattern of losing our rights....
My tinfoil hat and I totally believe our country is being dismantled purposely with the ultimate goal of globalization (aka one world government). |
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 Uh....never mind
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Location: Midwest Farmer's Daughter: Central Illinois | I'm just flat terrified in general. |
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 Nicknameless
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Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | ThreeCorners - 2014-02-18 10:22 AM Hotbear and Cindy, I think your right. All the factors comming together is creating the perfect storm and all the straws together is creating a load the camels back is about to break.
Hotbear, you mentioned catching the rain water/snow melt. My husband and I watched a show on the discovery channel last weekend called Buying Alaska. They had metal roofs on the houses and the drain spouts led into a purification system and then into a big holding tank for fresh water on a tiny Alaskan island. This supplied plenty of water for the entire property. However, due to our tyrannical govt. in all their infinate wisdom, in many western states, the state believes they also own the rain water and it is illegal to catch and use the rain water God provides.
I wasn't going to reply to this thread cuz you're all doing fine without me! BUT...I have to now!
I question why we all say that the government owns anything?
I'm desperately trying to understand, precisely, how we came to be here.
We are the United States...the states formed then created the federal government, not the other way around. YET...not all states were created equal! This is the real guts of the problem...the ulcer.
The Civil War was about states rights...the north 'won' & look where we are. The original 13 states gained control over the rest...through congress. Congress refused to give equal footing to the new states "until the population was such..." but it never happened...enter the fed...the EPA...
Is there a possibility that the 'new' states could finally sign the Declaration of Independence and gain equal footing?
There is a movement to assert our Rights that is growing stronger & more necessary by the day. It's just too complicated to summarize or simplify & it's an individual fight. The Power of One.
WE are the government & until we demand our rights, one at a time, we won't have any.
My blood runs cold when I think of the terrible possibilities, no water...no life. And no amount of gold/silver can buy what doesn't exist...food, fuel...
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Expert
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Location: Never in one place long | ThreeCorners - 2014-02-18 9:58 AM
I think desalination plants are the answere.
They are EXTREMELY expensive and energy consuming.... that is why they are not more commonly used... maybe if they find a better, cheaper way they will be useful... |
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Friendly horse swapper
Posts: 4122
Location: Buffalo, TX | Three 4 Luck - 2014-02-18 12:00 PM Cindy Hamilton - 2014-02-18 10:52 AM Please don't think I'm a doomsayer, but there is a lot going on right now that may even be calculated to send this country into a tailspin.....
I'm not as worried about water in my area as I am another drought driving hay prices sky high again.....I am lucky to have a spring fed pond....but I do hear about water troubles in other areas that would be very scary to me if I lived there....and I do understand how political it is (like everything else, we are at the government's mercy)....
I'm more worried about feed prices, food prices, and the inevitable stock market crash that is coming....our country can't sustain the lack of jobs, endless giveaways, and especially all the printing of money that is not backed by gold or anything at all anymore....this just can't continue the way it is.....feed and food will go sky high in the event of a crash....
I don't trust our government to lead us out of this mess....all I can do is try to prepare myself the best I can....I stock food, I own gold and plenty of silver....and I've been doing the only thing that can secure my future no matter what, and that's buying real estate....I'm buying rental property for cash flow.....it's the perfect storm right now in the real estate up and down cycle.....it's really a golden age for buying...the perfect buying opportunity that won't be seen again for probably over 15 years.....interest rates are rock bottom, home prices are just starting to show a slow rise, and rents are high.....banks are still sitting on a lot of foreclosure properties and we have maybe 2-3 years to take advantage of this...I can guarantee you that those who buy decent rent houses at the right prices in the next couple years and hold on to it will be millionaires in 10 years...I wasn't going to say this, but it might help someone out there do their research and be sitting very well in a few years.....
It's not just water...it all works together to form a pattern of losing our rights....
My tinfoil hat and I totally believe our country is being dismantled purposely with the ultimate goal of globalization (aka one world government).
WHEW....and I thought I was the only one with the tin hat....I am really preparing for the stock market crash...not an alien take over...on the other hand, aliens could probably run this country better than what it is now anyway.... |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| ThreeCorners - 2014-02-18 10:29 AM Whiteboy - 2014-02-18 9:16 AM I personally dont think that hay prices, especially in my area are ever going to exceed $200 a ton. The market cant afford it to be any higher. The primary hay purchaser is the dairy industry and if prices go higher it will force the milk producers out of business. The foreign markets couldn't support higher prices either. I think we are safe as far as feed prices go. We buy our hay from our next door neighbor. However, supply and demand will drive the prices. With so many, in 11 western states effected by the lack of irrigation water, supply will be low which will drive the prices way up and who ever has hay, will be trucking that hay out.
It is still pretty easy to out price your demand. Thats why dairy farmers have started feeding more biproducts. There is a certain price that if hay passes, it no longer is cost effective to purchase it. For dairy farmers it is apx. $200. If it passes that dairys have to sell out, and demand will drop. Dairies consume 65% of nations hay and exports are only 20%. No industry can out price 65% of their customers and live to tell about it. |
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Whiteboy - 2014-02-18 12:36 PM ThreeCorners - 2014-02-18 10:29 AM Whiteboy - 2014-02-18 9:16 AM I personally dont think that hay prices, especially in my area are ever going to exceed $200 a ton. The market cant afford it to be any higher. The primary hay purchaser is the dairy industry and if prices go higher it will force the milk producers out of business. The foreign markets couldn't support higher prices either. I think we are safe as far as feed prices go. We buy our hay from our next door neighbor. However, supply and demand will drive the prices. With so many, in 11 western states effected by the lack of irrigation water, supply will be low which will drive the prices way up and who ever has hay, will be trucking that hay out.
Demand destruction is real and we cotton farmers are living it. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 352
| RLB - 2014-02-18 12:15 PM I'm just flat terrified in general.
Agreed |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | I am very worried about all aspects of this. As posted earlier, all indications are of a very bumpy ride in front of us from alot of different factors.
The quandry I have whether to go ahead and breed this mare is.............if she was 9, 10, 14, I would hold off 100% and not even entertain the idea. I wouldnt even be thinking of breeding her at this juncture. This mare is 22, AAA and AAA producer. This in all probability would be our one and only last chance to get a foal from her and we are breeding for ourselves. She is booked to a very sought after sire and has her vet appt. for her repro exam set for this sat. We were really excited about this foal, but I am so very very leary right now. I am scared of feed prices and availability with the drought. Our cost of living rising drastically as well. Along with the economy totally tanking. What good is a great prospect if you have nowhere to go with it because the economy is in the tank or cant afford to feed, train, and haul it and no market to sell it? |
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Nicknameless
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Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | What a mess, huh? I'm trying to live life to the fullest & going forward as if it's all going to be fine...keeping in mind that it could all tank. If it really does then you might be glad you have 4 legged transportation! Other people buying hay won't be a problem if horses become a food source...we can't live in fear or deny living because something 'might' happen...imo.
Heck...I'm just hoping the lake doesn't dry up since we bought a houseboat last year! Lmbo...I guess it'll be a great 'dry docked' cabin at the bottom of an awesome big ditch if it does! Just sayin'...don't listen to my advice cuz I'm crazy. |
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Tried and True
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Location: Where I am happiest | musikmaker - 2014-02-18 4:40 PM What a mess, huh? I'm trying to live life to the fullest & going forward as if it's all going to be fine...keeping in mind that it could all tank. If it really does then you might be glad you have 4 legged transportation! Other people buying hay won't be a problem if horses become a food source...we can't live in fear or deny living because something 'might' happen...imo.
Heck...I'm just hoping the lake doesn't dry up since we bought a houseboat last year! Lmbo...I guess it'll be a great 'dry docked' cabin at the bottom of an awesome big ditch if it does! Just sayin'...don't listen to my advice cuz I'm crazy.
LOL. You sound like my husband. He keeps talking about horses becoming transportation again.
We have been working very hard paying everything off to be debt free. After next month the only payments we will have left is our house which we just refinanced and it will be paid off in 12 years.He has tossed very seriously building another barn to board some horses. The way things are going I am not so sure thats a viable semi retirement plan for him either now. I am from Klamath Falls and would absolutelly LOVE to move back there but I dont see that happening. My husband is afraid of the liberal run state govt. there and the water problems with the indians and now the drought. Ranches will be selling for pennies on the dollar there but with no irrigation they will be useless.Obama will be giving the ranches and farms to China for the national debt we now owe them. Maybe thats the grand scheme.
Maybe I worry to much. lol
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Nicknameless
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Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | ThreeCorners - 2014-02-18 4:00 PM musikmaker - 2014-02-18 4:40 PM What a mess, huh? I'm trying to live life to the fullest & going forward as if it's all going to be fine...keeping in mind that it could all tank. If it really does then you might be glad you have 4 legged transportation! Other people buying hay won't be a problem if horses become a food source...we can't live in fear or deny living because something 'might' happen...imo.
Heck...I'm just hoping the lake doesn't dry up since we bought a houseboat last year! Lmbo...I guess it'll be a great 'dry docked' cabin at the bottom of an awesome big ditch if it does! Just sayin'...don't listen to my advice cuz I'm crazy. LOL. You sound like my husband. He keeps talking about horses becoming transportation again.
We have been working very hard paying everything off to be debt free. After next month the only payments we will have left is our house which we just refinanced and it will be paid off in 12 years.He has tossed very seriously building another barn to board some horses. The way things are going I am not so sure thats a viable semi retirement plan for him either now. I am from Klamath Falls and would absolutelly LOVE to move back there but I dont see that happening. My husband is afraid of the liberal run state govt. there and the water problems with the indians and now the drought. Ranches will be selling for pennies on the dollar there but with no irrigation they will be useless.Obama will be giving the ranches and farms to China for the national debt we now owe them. Maybe thats the grand scheme.
Maybe I worry to much. lol
I don't mean to sound flippant about any of this...nobody in their right mind can still be thinking that this can continue, we're taxed to death and the working class is supporting it all...it can't last. And as much as I love my tin hat I don't think there's a conspiracy so much as I think it's just natural for greedy, selfish people to find each other...kinda like druggies! Have you ever noticed that? Ha.
They won't win cuz they have no life skills, they'll perish without the rest of us to feed them, to provide all the goods, the ingenuity. Of course, the scary part is that desperate people do desperate things...so stay vigilant!
If it were my mare I'd breed her! |
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Balance Beam and more...
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Location: 31 lengths farms | Yep, just what California needs a Bullet Train instead of some infrastructure like dams and resevoirs to try to store water if and when we do get rain...nope, don't need that because we are just gonna pour it back in to the Pacific Ocean. And what, increase the minimum wage in Oakland is it to $12 something an hour? Who's gonna hire more people in a small business at that wage? Which means higher unemployment. Its like looking at 12 lbs of sh*t in a 10lb bucket frankly.... |
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Balance Beam and more...
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Location: 31 lengths farms | Hey, but I can quit my job and become a painter or a poet and you employed suckers can pay for my healthcare for me...can I chase the rodeo trail and get you to pay my travel expenses too????
and I stand corrected, I just checked it was minimum wage increase they want is only to $10.10 and hour in Oakland...phew, thought for a minute jobs might be lost 
Edited by run n rate 2014-02-18 6:20 PM
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | run n rate - 2014-02-18 4:11 PM Hey, but I can quit my job and become a painter or a poet and you employed suckers can pay for my healthcare for me...can I chase the rodeo trail and get you to pay my travel expenses too???? and I stand corrected, I just checked it was minimum wage increase they want is only to $10.10 and hour in Oakland...phew, thought for a minute jobs might be lost
As for the water situation, lawns and golf courses are still being watered and its running into the streets. It's a cryin shame. Just left CA this am. There is not enough water to handle the population, somethings got to give.
Edited by justcruzin 2014-02-18 6:37 PM
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Sock eating dog owner
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Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | I would breed everything I have. Heaven knows we may be eating what we sow for our own survival. |
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Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | I would breed everything I have. Heaven knows we may be eating what we sow for our own survival. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 304
Location: Up and over to the right | I'll wish I could take a hair dryer to the tons and tons of snow that keeps piling up in the East to send out West. I worry that our spring is going to be TOO wet and we'll have problems with our hay. The extremes have arrived and they have come forcefully… Hoping an equilibrium is established soon! |
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Location: NW | Netflix has a movie called "Last Call at the Oasis" Erin Brockovich did it... very good about the water crisis in America. It is a very eye opening documentary |
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 Ditch the Stirrups
Posts: 5369
Location: Sorrow Not! Defending against workplace bullies | My worry is there will be a hay shortage and prices will be driven even higher by hay farmers selling their hay overseas instead of locally. That is already happening to some extent. |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | I was just watching the crawl on Good Morning America. Gasoline went up, milk up as much as 60 cents a gallon in the near future. Don't even want to talk about propane and natural gas (but then Obama promised us that, didn't he).
....and my stupid DirectTV bill just went from $107 a month to $128. I will be calling them. |
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| Ok.. this thread is making me want to sell all my horses but ONE. |
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | SwishMiss - 2014-02-19 8:36 AM Ok.. this thread is making me want to sell all my horses but ONE.
It makes me want to hoard mine. |
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | DLV - 2014-02-18 11:43 AM It should be no surprise that the West is having water problems.... we have built up HUGE populations in areas that cannot sustain them in the long run, the truth is there is not enough water and we are running things dry.... Cadillac Desert is a great book to read explaining these issues. The populations cannot and will not be sustained in these areas that were meant to be DESERTS and yet we have turned them into lush areas using the water at alarming rates.... in addition damaging ecosystems. 1,000's of acres of water intensive crops are planted in areas that they NEVER should have been with the amount of rainfall in the area.
I am not surprised about this at all and I do believe the economy is going to get much worse. That is the reason I have decided to only have two horses, pay off all debt as quickly as possible and start saving... it's a smart thing to do in any time but especially uncertain times and they are coming... maybe not now or in the next year but sooner then we think...you are smart to question breeding your horse in my opinion.....
^^dead on^^ |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Well, it's definatelly a time to get prepared for a very bumpy ride. I sure dont think it's a time to be making any big frivalous purchases thats for sure. Necessaties only and scale back the monthly payments. The cost of living is climbing and it is going to drastically spike. Heating bills, water bills, electricity, food and fuel are all going to go up and go up ALOT.So if your struggling now to make ends meet, I'd sure change that in very short order.Stay home from a couple races and pay off that debt thats nickel and diming every month. We pulled all but a small amount out of the stock market a long time ago and if you have money there, I'd sure look long and hard at moving it out of the stock market because all indications are it is going to crash and sooner rather then later. Unemployment is also going to rise drastically. From anything ag. related due to drought, to entry level jobs due to the higher minimum wage, to higher end jobs due to Obamacare.
This spring we are putting up a new hay barn. It's been in the planning for 3 years now but our focus has been on getting debt free. So we have paid the trucks off, paid the tractor off, paid the credit card off and refinanced the house. Didnt take any equity out at all, we shortened the loan and it will be paid off in 12 years now without raising the payment. I think we are in pretty good shape and we are going to become hay hoarders. LOL. Part of that new hay barn was supposed to also be equipment and trailer parking. Not now. We are going to fill that sucker up entirely with hay and keep collecting it as best I can to weather the storm.
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 Ms. Potato Head
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Location: BFE, Idaho | dhdqhllc - 2014-02-19 11:01 AM DLV - 2014-02-18 11:43 AM It should be no surprise that the West is having water problems.... we have built up HUGE populations in areas that cannot sustain them in the long run, the truth is there is not enough water and we are running things dry.... Cadillac Desert is a great book to read explaining these issues. The populations cannot and will not be sustained in these areas that were meant to be DESERTS and yet we have turned them into lush areas using the water at alarming rates.... in addition damaging ecosystems. 1,000's of acres of water intensive crops are planted in areas that they NEVER should have been with the amount of rainfall in the area.
I am not surprised about this at all and I do believe the economy is going to get much worse. That is the reason I have decided to only have two horses, pay off all debt as quickly as possible and start saving... it's a smart thing to do in any time but especially uncertain times and they are coming... maybe not now or in the next year but sooner then we think...you are smart to question breeding your horse in my opinion..... ^^dead on^^
This is true for so many areas and cities in the desert, but those of us not involved in a major water shed issue are still in a tough situation this year.
My little valley I live in has a small dam that serves a very small community of farmers, we have not plowed new ground in over 50 years, in fact there is more fallow ground now than when the track was opened in the early 1900's. And most have switched to modern less usage water irrigation systems.
We have had short water inches for the last 5 years, this year they are worried if the dam will fill enough to even send water out. We are hurting for water here and many are very, very worried.
We are having a few inches of snow every week here lately but I do not think it will be enough????
Hay went to $200 when we started shipping all our extras to the midwest/south drought, it never went down. I do not think it will ever go down now.
I will have one horse by May and probably will not be able to go back up to two for quite a few years.
WATCH: Water Wars for a global perspective. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | dhdqhllc - 2014-02-19 12:01 PM DLV - 2014-02-18 11:43 AM It should be no surprise that the West is having water problems.... we have built up HUGE populations in areas that cannot sustain them in the long run, the truth is there is not enough water and we are running things dry.... Cadillac Desert is a great book to read explaining these issues. The populations cannot and will not be sustained in these areas that were meant to be DESERTS and yet we have turned them into lush areas using the water at alarming rates.... in addition damaging ecosystems. 1,000's of acres of water intensive crops are planted in areas that they NEVER should have been with the amount of rainfall in the area.
I am not surprised about this at all and I do believe the economy is going to get much worse. That is the reason I have decided to only have two horses, pay off all debt as quickly as possible and start saving... it's a smart thing to do in any time but especially uncertain times and they are coming... maybe not now or in the next year but sooner then we think...you are smart to question breeding your horse in my opinion..... ^^dead on^^
Yep, and alot of water has been sent down there that have put places that would normally be ok in a water crunch for years. Now those places are in a drought themselves with no reserves. They are dry and have about 32% of normal snow pack themselves. Yet, those desert cities, will keep watering lawns and golf courses and pools and washing cars like they have a endless supply while farmers and ranchers go without. |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | ThreeCorners - 2014-02-19 1:22 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-02-19 12:01 PM DLV - 2014-02-18 11:43 AM It should be no surprise that the West is having water problems.... we have built up HUGE populations in areas that cannot sustain them in the long run, the truth is there is not enough water and we are running things dry.... Cadillac Desert is a great book to read explaining these issues. The populations cannot and will not be sustained in these areas that were meant to be DESERTS and yet we have turned them into lush areas using the water at alarming rates.... in addition damaging ecosystems. 1,000's of acres of water intensive crops are planted in areas that they NEVER should have been with the amount of rainfall in the area.
I am not surprised about this at all and I do believe the economy is going to get much worse. That is the reason I have decided to only have two horses, pay off all debt as quickly as possible and start saving... it's a smart thing to do in any time but especially uncertain times and they are coming... maybe not now or in the next year but sooner then we think...you are smart to question breeding your horse in my opinion..... ^^dead on^^
and climate change is only exacerbating this water issue.....not only with extreme drought but also extreme amounts of precipitation.....both which decrease ag production...... but some places will also benefit from this and see increased ag production...
in the bigger picture, i don't really think anyone cares about the luxury of breeding horses for pleasure purposed....
Edited by dhdqhllc 2014-02-19 1:38 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1432
Location: Never in one place long | You are very right in this, I work in a Conservation job and attended a "Future of water" planning meeting led by KDHE (Kansas Department of Health and Environment) even if drastic measures are taken, it will only slow the inevitable, even in their "50 year vision" they are not planning to prevent the running out of water but draw it out.... there is no plan that has been thought up that will make life in the Great plains sustainable... none that anyone will agree with. No one wants to stop growing water thirsty and unsustainable crops on their overinflated land...... this generation is using it all up and there will not be anything left for the next.
Well I guess I can only hope that eventually they'll plant it all back to native grass and raise dryland crops or maybe even buffalo again.......it's so scary I cannot believe more people aren't in the least concerned...... Nature is going to take it back and rightly so I guess. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | dhdqhllc - 2014-02-19 1:36 PM ThreeCorners - 2014-02-19 1:22 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-02-19 12:01 PM DLV - 2014-02-18 11:43 AM It should be no surprise that the West is having water problems.... we have built up HUGE populations in areas that cannot sustain them in the long run, the truth is there is not enough water and we are running things dry.... Cadillac Desert is a great book to read explaining these issues. The populations cannot and will not be sustained in these areas that were meant to be DESERTS and yet we have turned them into lush areas using the water at alarming rates.... in addition damaging ecosystems. 1,000's of acres of water intensive crops are planted in areas that they NEVER should have been with the amount of rainfall in the area.
I am not surprised about this at all and I do believe the economy is going to get much worse. That is the reason I have decided to only have two horses, pay off all debt as quickly as possible and start saving... it's a smart thing to do in any time but especially uncertain times and they are coming... maybe not now or in the next year but sooner then we think...you are smart to question breeding your horse in my opinion..... ^^dead on^^
and climate change is only exacerbating this water issue.....not only with extreme drought but also extreme amounts of precipitation.....both which decrease ag production...... but some places will also benefit from this and see increased ag production...
in the bigger picture, i don't really think anyone cares about the luxury of breeding horses for pleasure purposed....
Ag doesn't have to be the waster it is. Tailwater recovery and PHAUSET (system to increase efficiency) make a huge difference. And PHAUSET is very cheap to implement, just takes more work. We have proven it works, now more growers need to sign on. Tailwater recovery is a lot more expensive to implement, but along with storing excess surface water, is something that's going to have to be widely used in the future. |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | Three 4 Luck - 2014-02-19 2:25 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-02-19 1:36 PM ThreeCorners - 2014-02-19 1:22 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-02-19 12:01 PM DLV - 2014-02-18 11:43 AM It should be no surprise that the West is having water problems.... we have built up HUGE populations in areas that cannot sustain them in the long run, the truth is there is not enough water and we are running things dry.... Cadillac Desert is a great book to read explaining these issues. The populations cannot and will not be sustained in these areas that were meant to be DESERTS and yet we have turned them into lush areas using the water at alarming rates.... in addition damaging ecosystems. 1,000's of acres of water intensive crops are planted in areas that they NEVER should have been with the amount of rainfall in the area.
I am not surprised about this at all and I do believe the economy is going to get much worse. That is the reason I have decided to only have two horses, pay off all debt as quickly as possible and start saving... it's a smart thing to do in any time but especially uncertain times and they are coming... maybe not now or in the next year but sooner then we think...you are smart to question breeding your horse in my opinion..... ^^dead on^^
and climate change is only exacerbating this water issue.....not only with extreme drought but also extreme amounts of precipitation.....both which decrease ag production...... but some places will also benefit from this and see increased ag production...
in the bigger picture, i don't really think anyone cares about the luxury of breeding horses for pleasure purposed....
true...but the vast majority are not going to unless forced to by the govt or the public....as with any kind of conservation measure that does not directly put money in their pocket....... |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| I graduated from high school a LONG time ago. Back when computer programming consisted of punch cards...
I remember when a friend (a self proclaimed know-it-all) predicted that water would become the new crisis in this country. That there would be pressure to pipe water from the Great Lakes to the dry Southwest. I guess he DID know quite a bit. When we were looking for a place to settle, hubby wanted to move South (I can't take heat+ humidity) but any place that was comfortable dry made me worry about water and water rights.
I analyzed each state and area where we looked at property from the Southeast to the Northwest. And came to the conclusion that horse ownership was about as cheap as you can get where we are at now. We have to put up with the cold and snow (especially this year!) but droughts are few and far between and alfalfa is usually plentiful.
So to the OP's original question, I have been worried about all of this probably longer than you have been alive.
Edited to add: did not read all posts and now I see that some have already touched on "people living and farming where they really shouldn't" already.
An aside. People continue to move to arid areas for"climate" and then insist on using water as they are used to. Take Phoenix and Las Vegas for he population growth has been exponential in the last 3 or 4 decades. And greenery follows. There are orange groves around Phoenix where there was only arid desert. They discovered the soil was extremely fertile so there began pumping water in and growing crops where they should not. And the population flooded in and the population wants grass and trees and flowers. Now that climates are returning to more ere is a REASON those areas were desert and basically uninhabited. But Man, with "his" ability to manipulate his environment, thinks he knows better and can manage this planet better than "Nature" (or God, if you will).
Edited by rodeoveteran 2014-02-19 2:39 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I have heard that the USA may import water from Canada. I don't know if it has been done or still in the works but a big water pipeline from Canada to southern USA. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: EDGE OF INSANITY | this world makes me fear for my children (in so many different ways). People are so "right now" and "me" it scares me. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | It is hard to decide which is worse...building cities in deserts and then needing water for those cities or building cities and homes on good fertile farm ground where the water goes to washing cars and watering lawns but not to feeding a nation. And it just keeps rolling downhill from there. |
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Is anybody else as worried as I am?