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Member
Posts: 41
| I have a 21 year old aqha mare, she is in good health, up to date on everything, give her glucosamine and selenium in spring,she has selenium salt block, protein block, lots of water, and grass alfalfa hay, same hay for about 3 months. She started resting her back leg kinda out to the side like they do after they shake and one in kinda out to the side and away from them, then she stands with the rest of the horses and will take steps in a circle around the leg, when she walks she walks sideways, like she is two tracking. she can pick up all of her feet, cant find any sore spots, pulls against her tail when you pull on it, her eyes are bright, gums are good, eats, drinks and still bosses the other horses. But, I had a 29 year old horse that did the same thing and he died last sunday. Theres no nails or power lines over her pen. Anyone have any ideas? Shes healthy and bright. Was wondering if anyone has ever had anything like this before
Edited by thirsty 2014-02-23 5:19 PM
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I Need a Xanax!
Posts: 2774
  
| Gosh, I don't know but I'd be calling a vet asap since you said another one did the same thing and died last week. Has the grass in your pastures came up yet? |
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
 
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Sounds like something Neuro -- I'd call the vet asap. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 305
| My girlfriend had a pony that did strange things like that. He had a stroke. For a while he only walked backwards. |
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| With your feeding program you may have selenium toxicity in the 1st and 2nd stages.
Your hay may also be high in selenium ... horses require almost no selenium and if you over dose it goes from bad to worse to sudden death the more they get or build up in their body.
First phase; You described what I call ... blind staggers ... feet splayed or stuck to the ground while horse moves around aimlessly, some will press their heads on posts or buildings.
2nd Phase; As it grows worse horse loses weight, loses hair on body and/or mane and tail and are less mobile and lethargic for periods of time ...
3rd phase ... can become lame/sore/crippled on all four legs and sore at the coronet bands and then a major crack may form across the top part of the hoof and the hoof may slough off or after pussing it may solidify and start growing out and down the hoof which takes a year to renew the hoof if selenium over dose is corrected immediately ..
In any case I would recommend you stop giving them any selenium supplements of any kind and your hay may come from a selenium rich patch of ground the next acre over may be lacking in selenium .... so get you some hay from a different supplier and use it as a test over the next 6 months ... there are tests you can have done on hay if you know exactly where that bale came from in the hay meadow for the test to do you any good .... could test low and give you a sense of security ... does that make sense ..??
I have encountered selenium toxicity/poisoning twice ... one about 20 years ago where one of my creek bottoms would flood and the grass and hay there tested super high in selenium which affected the horses etc etc .... this was simple ... I owned enough land to move horse pasture to higher ground ... problem solved ... and rotated cattle on and off that creek bottom.
2nd event was about 12 years ago when some high priced horse feed got extremely overdosed with selenium probably due to equipment malfunction. I had been feeding it about 6 weeks when that group of horses began to fall apart from missing hair to blind staggers to sloughing hooves .... I still had bags of feed for it to be tested and it was the culprit big time!! I gave the race bred youngsters away thru the vet so people knew the exact problem and how to tend to it .... the old retired caretaker horses we just put down rather than have them suffer anymore. At the time I had too many irons in the fire and did not have the time to give them the attention they deserved to try to save them ...
I did get reimbursed by the feed company after a tv station did an interview with me and the vet and I had a bag of their feed on the tailgate of my truck .. I innocently moved my body enough and placed a hand on the upright feed sack while talking to the reporter and never mentioned the brand of feed ........... where before attorney and I could get no return calls .. all of a sudden even the feed delivery guy was calling us ... they did not want anymore free advertising ... lol ..
I think we used a certain ratio of potassium (K) and Vitamins E and C to counter the selenium .... if this is your problem I am sure they have better meds available today ....
GOOD LUCK ... |
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Member
Posts: 41
| No grass yet, its still cold and snowing. It has been completely thawed out and warm for a few days but its not growing. |
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 Crazy Chicken Chick
Posts: 36132
| You need to get some labs drawn on that horse ASAP. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | Why are you supplementing so much with Selenium? The block left out for them is the big red flag for me. If you are controlling and measuring their intake of selenium supplemented in feed etc...well that's one thing. But say you have a horse that just gets bored and works on that block. How much is that one getting?
Selenium deficiency may reduce performance though usually even a deficiency is sub clinical and shows not outward signs. But over doing it can be fatal. Not worth the risk IMO.
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| Sounds like Selenium overdose to me too. I had a mare get a selenuim overdose. Bad deal and ended up being the beginning of the end for her. She was never right after that. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| they consider anything over 20mg/day to be toxic. I think you need to sit down a figure out how much your feeding daily. I agree with everyone else, I think its selenium poisoning. Have your hay and soil tested before you start supplementing selenium in a horses diet. I don't even buy it in my Vitamin E supplements because mine get enough from the pasture and hay. Also check other supplements for it, Red Cell has it added to it, and muscle supplements usually have it added too.
Edited by FlyingJT 2014-02-24 9:04 AM
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Member
Posts: 41
| Our levels of selenuim here are super low, but goin to the vet today |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Could it be EPM? |
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Member
Posts: 41
| So I called one vet and he said just let her die. So off to another one that will atleast attemp to find out whats going on. They said the selenium block and the free choice mineral tubs were ok for our area. None seem to be to interested in doing bloodwork, am going to try to talk her into it. we will see I guess, gotta be there at 3 |
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Member
Posts: 41
| so we went to the vet and even with this being the second horse of mine that has had the exact same symptoms she said that its probably some sort of trauma in her back just infront of her hips, gave her half gallon of dmso in stomach pump, 40cc of dex and 2 bute. and going to repeat dex and bute for a few days at a lesser dose. she said that selenium and the free choice tubs were ok, said wasnt connected to the feed, didnt think was epm cause its cold. so with all of that I guess we'll wait and see if she gets better. |
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![](<a href="http://s1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/alicat0909/?action=view¤t=yellaandcalf.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1191.photobu) Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | Wow two horses in for the same thing and she thinks its just trauma? I'd be getting a third or fourth opinion if i had to. Good luck I hope your horse is okay. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 467
Location: A roping pen near you!! | Is your protein block horse specific??? If not my vet has told me not to use the cattle ones. |
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Member
Posts: 41
| Hi, yes I am very careful when buying them to make sure to double check the label cause they can be dangerous if not for a horse |
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 I Am Always Right
Posts: 4264
Location: stray dump capital of the world | Did the vet draw blood? I still think it is something other than trauma due to this being the 2nd horse with the same symptoms within a week. Sending some prayers your way.  |
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Member
Posts: 41
| She said that drawing blood was not necessary and the only test that she suggested was for epm but said she was sure it wasnt that because its the wrong time of the year. very frustrated, when I asked about the other horse and her having the same thing she just said probably just a weird thing. |
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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | I don't like your vets response. In my area a basic blood test is $30. Sounds like she doesn't have access to the testing equipment or sends it to a lab. It is a minor test to run and tells a lot of info. She should have been willing. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| My vet draws blood on everything, a simple CBC will tell a person lots. |
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Member
Posts: 41
| I agree but she didnt seem like it would be of any benefit, I was willing she wasnt. |
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I Am Always Right
Posts: 4264
Location: stray dump capital of the world | I would look for another vet, but I also know because of where I live that can sometimes be difficult.
I've only had one vet sorta refuse to do what I wanted, (further x-rays) I just told him I needed it for my peace of mind. He laughed and took the X-ray. He was right and I was wrong, but my 'what if' went away. Perhaps approach your vet like that. Explain that you are not questioning her knowledge, but you want to shut the what if door.
Have you noticed any improvement in the short time you've been medicating her? still sending prayers... |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | I'm going to ask a dumb question. But since when is EPM a seasonal thing?? I would assume it would be more prevalent in the cold because that's when horses would more likely be eating contaminated hay?? |
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 Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving |
I agree with this. I have been following this post and checking back for updates and can tell you I would be calling them again at the very least, if not finding a different vet. If I wanted to draw blood and check levels and everything out on MY horse you would be darn sure my vet would. Your noticing changes in your animal and lost one already; I don't know about others but I'm around mine every day and can sense when something's wrong changes in the way they act, plus you should know if it's something that could affect your other animals. YOUR paying for the test and it would help rule out any oddities that could be causing this. Plus being a senior horse I would do it to see if there is anything I need to change in her diet (it can serve 2 purposes). I agree that having 2 with the same "injury" is extremely unlikely and some of the symptoms you are describing can mean multiple things. Also the comment about just letting her die really rubbed me wrong, why let a horse suffer or be in pain (isn't she a vet and her goal is to be compassionate about animals at least). If you have the means financially to try and help who is she to say just let her die. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | I too would find another vet. Her attitude and knowledge - EPM is NOT a seasonal thing and Blood draw could tell you a bunch. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| thirsty - 2014-02-26 12:31 AM
I agree but she didnt seem like it would be of any benefit, I was willing she wasnt.
If you are willing to believe the vet, then there are no suggestions anyone can give |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | She sounds like she does not know where her feet are. Does she have a head tilt?
I dont understand why they wouldn't draw blood either. you never know. and if it gives the owner peace of mind, then do it. |
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Member
Posts: 41
| No she doesnt tilt her head. when she walks she dont walk straight, walks like she is two tracking. frustrated |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Have you taken a temp and checked her respiratory and heart rate? Did she have a runny nose or coughing the weeks up to this? Maybe she had a mild stroke? EHV-1 neurological disease? West Nile(unlikely for this time of year), Wobblers? Just throwing stuff out there, not to scare you but maybe you can ask your vet and mark of the most severe. I can't believe none will draw blood! I also wouldn't count out epm just because the time of year. It has been found in feed because the infected animal gets in the plant, or they can come across feces and accidentally ingest it.
Good Luck!! |
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Member
Posts: 41
| Heart rate, temp, and respitory is good, no runny nose or coughing. She said not wobblers, my hay did come from along the river and an orchard, but she said nothing to do with feed, I thought maybe mosquitos could of gotten baled in hay and they ate them, but apparentely not. I just dont know, |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | Your horse is neurological for some reason or anther.. you need a second opinion. You need a good lameness/neuro vet to exam him. This is not normal and can kill him or at least leave him a pasture ornament if not treated soon!!!
Edited by ACEINTHEHOLE 2014-02-26 2:58 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 787
Location: NE Pa-Gods Country | Selenium salt block???? perhaps selenium toxicity. we are totally deficient in Selenium here in NE PA, but you still have to monitor how much you are giving them as a additive.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383
| epm can also be in their system for a while and not show up until their immune system gets a little down and then it really can attack- there are a lot of good epm treatments now that aren't near as expensive as they used to be- and a blood test can tell you if the titer is up elevated- |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383
| also there is no guarantee that the feed stores can keep rodents out completely - so to say that epm couldn't come from feed is not something I would count on |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | If you can't get her to a better vet could you get a good video showing what she is doing and possibly send that to a reputable clinic to at least give you a direction to really push your local vet? |
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Member
Posts: 41
| When we fed tho other night she was still having trouble with going straight, the next morning it was like someone turned a switch and she is totally better. She was bucking and rearing, twiriling around, bossing the other horses and chasing a 2 year old. So glad just hoping that it dont relapse. Still no answer or idea. |
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weird horse thing going on with horse.....help